Do we really decide by ourselves, or are we just being controlled by chemical reactions that run amok our brains, fucking things up and dictating what we should do, what we should eat, where should we go?
Both and neither.
What people fail to perceive is that, either way, we have free will. We decide things, because we ARE these chemical reactions.
If we love, love isn't a separate entity that comes and goes at her whims and is a real bitch.
We are love. We are hate. We are jealously. We are happiness.
We are our emotions, our thoughts, our impulses.
They don't control us, for they are part of us.
And we should accept them.
I am not saying you should go in a killing spree everytime you get pissed off.
I am saying that this urge to go in a killing spree that we feel when we get pissed, this love we feel when we see our crush, this happiness we feel when we get a good grade, a promotion or a raise, is part of us, and the very concept of treating these things as separate entities, or worse, repressing them, is like amputating parts of your body because you don't think they are pretty.
And, while it is sometimes necessary, amputation is not a thing to be used in such a trivial manner.
It starts with small cuts. Some concessions, some words that were never spoken, some people that were never punched.
Little by little, we are a little less than we were before.
Slowly, but steadily, we lose our deeper feelings, seeking only the white sugar of emotions that is the entertainment. And while white sugar is tasty, and it helps when drinking a bitter drink, it does not feed.
Eventually, these souls will end up disfigured, unable to move, unable to act.
Lobotomized and drooling on themselves uselessly.
This is sad. And pisses me off.
Let's try to understand ourselves. Our urges. Our desires. Our emotions.
And, if we really wish, improve ourselves by our own standards, not because some asshole told us to. But because we want, and this desire is part of us too.
Let's accept who we really are.
So, yeah. I am posting this here, though I am not sure if this should be in the rants section, or even if it should be in this forum.
It's really personal, so, please, be kind when you post here. I am not a native speaker, so, if you see any errors, please tell me so I may improve my english a little bit further.
Phew! For a moment I thought this was one of my first posts dug up from it's well earned crypt.
What I've noticed in Free Will discussions is most people tend to Ed up taking a position a lot like youve articulated, except some people call it Free Will and other people don't.
I personally find it useful to think of a spectrum of autonomy, where we can aim to develoP greater autonomy in areas of our lives.
It's wise to comment about reality while also remembering that you are a part of that reality. Good insight. I don't think it's as dire as you presume, though. Because of the premise. You are your chemicals, and you can't amputate your chemicals.
Reminds me of a conversation about love I had many years ago.
Friend: "Love is just a bunch of chemicals".
Me: "We are just a bunch of chemicals".
So yeah. No disagreement from me!
Quote from: Nigel on April 06, 2012, 05:02:21 AM
Reminds me of a conversation about love I had many years ago.
Friend: "Love is just a bunch of chemicals".
Me: "We are just a bunch of chemicals".
So yeah. No disagreement from me!
I love that shit. Somehow, my parents and life circumstances have raised me in a way such that it has never bothered me in the slightest that things like love and consciousness are purely the products of the material world.
Besides, if they weren't, some genius would figure it all out and then people would bitch and moan anyway:
"Love is
just a second-order transcendent abstraction of the primary subconscious; how unromantic!"
I find it oddly even more romantic for being chemical; holy SHIT, look at what the physical world can do!
Some people think scientists are devoid of romance and are intent on stripping the world of its wonder. In my opinion, the opposite is true.
There was this Star Trek episode and some alien dude was making first contact with humans over the onscreen thingy and was like "Ugly bags of mostly water."
It was, of course, explained that humanoids are like 80-some-odd percent water so this weirdo who'd never seen a human before, ran a scan to see what were made of. I think about that from time to time when I'm having one of my little "what determines the net sum of a personality?" Mental excursions.
Also, meat.[/I]
(http://www.terrybisson.com/page6/page6.html)
Quote from: Nigel on April 06, 2012, 06:35:24 AM
I find it oddly even more romantic for being chemical; holy SHIT, look at what the physical world can do!
Some people think scientists are devoid of romance and are intent on stripping the world of its wonder. In my opinion, the opposite is true.
Yes, also this.
Thanks for your comments!
Free Will? I didn't know he was chained up in the first place.
Quote from: Cainad on April 06, 2012, 04:51:17 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 06, 2012, 06:35:24 AM
I find it oddly even more romantic for being chemical; holy SHIT, look at what the physical world can do!
Some people think scientists are devoid of romance and are intent on stripping the world of its wonder. In my opinion, the opposite is true.
Yes, also this.
Feynman had a very appropriate comment on this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSZNsIFID28)
Nice video.
Quote from: Mistre on March 29, 2012, 02:02:12 AM
Do we really decide by ourselves, or are we just being controlled by chemical reactions that run amok our brains, fucking things up and dictating what we should do, what we should eat, where should we go?
Both and neither.
Balls, on account of Papa Hemmingway.
I am more than a collection of perceptions.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 24, 2012, 02:01:18 PM
Quote from: Mistre on March 29, 2012, 02:02:12 AM
Do we really decide by ourselves, or are we just being controlled by chemical reactions that run amok our brains, fucking things up and dictating what we should do, what we should eat, where should we go?
Both and neither.
Balls, on account of Papa Hemmingway.
I am more than a collection of perceptions.
You've said this a number of times to reject a lot of thin including the use of the MBPTI and memetics.
What exactly ARE we that is beyond these types of collections of perceptions or memes or traits? Even if you can link me to something if you've already explained yourself.
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 24, 2012, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 24, 2012, 02:01:18 PM
Quote from: Mistre on March 29, 2012, 02:02:12 AM
Do we really decide by ourselves, or are we just being controlled by chemical reactions that run amok our brains, fucking things up and dictating what we should do, what we should eat, where should we go?
Both and neither.
Balls, on account of Papa Hemmingway.
I am more than a collection of perceptions.
You've said this a number of times to reject a lot of thin including the use of the MBPTI and memetics.
What exactly ARE we that is beyond these types of collections of perceptions or memes or traits? Even if you can link me to something if you've already explained yourself.
1. I have NEVER rejected the use of memetics. I have no idea what the hell MBPTI is, so I can't answer that. What I DO reject is memetic false consciousness as the entirety of human existence.
2. I am a human being. What are you?
ETA: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,29003.0.html
Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on April 24, 2012, 04:38:35 AM
Quote from: Cainad on April 06, 2012, 04:51:17 PM
Quote from: Nigel on April 06, 2012, 06:35:24 AM
I find it oddly even more romantic for being chemical; holy SHIT, look at what the physical world can do!
Some people think scientists are devoid of romance and are intent on stripping the world of its wonder. In my opinion, the opposite is true.
Yes, also this.
Feynman had a very appropriate comment on this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSZNsIFID28)
He is so spot-on.
The entire Feynman video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgaw9qe7DEE&feature=related
I love that man so much.
I heard of him, but I never saw one of his interviews, he seems really likable!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 24, 2012, 04:21:32 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 24, 2012, 03:45:59 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 24, 2012, 02:01:18 PM
Quote from: Mistre on March 29, 2012, 02:02:12 AM
Do we really decide by ourselves, or are we just being controlled by chemical reactions that run amok our brains, fucking things up and dictating what we should do, what we should eat, where should we go?
Both and neither.
Balls, on account of Papa Hemmingway.
I am more than a collection of perceptions.
You've said this a number of times to reject a lot of thin including the use of the MBPTI and memetics.
What exactly ARE we that is beyond these types of collections of perceptions or memes or traits? Even if you can link me to something if you've already explained yourself.
1. I have NEVER rejected the use of memetics. I have no idea what the hell MBPTI is, so I can't answer that. What I DO reject is memetic false consciousness as the entirety of human existence.
2. I am a human being. What are you?
ETA: http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,29003.0.html
Ok, sorry about the memetics thing. I did mean the idea of a person as a collection of memes. The MBPTI is the Myer Briggs personality test.
I'm reading through the whole thread you linked me and it does a good job of rejecting the idea that we are just a collectiOn of memes. If you think we are more than just memes, I would liketo know what about us is more than a competing collection of ideas. I don't have any stake in the answer, it's just that I've hear you saying 'we are more than this...' enough to wonder "why?"
To me it feels like the evangelical argument for the soul. Without a soul we are just animals. And you know, I think we are just animals but animals with incredible brains which opens up a vastly different conscious experience.
If we are more than memes, more than a collection of perceptions, what more is there to us that makes it so? A soul? Emotions? Self-concious?
Do you see what I'm trying to ask?
In response to the question, of course I'm a human being. I don't see that that's antithical to the idea of being a collection of perceptions though.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:23:45 PM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on April 30, 2012, 07:21:38 PM
Quote from: Cainad on April 30, 2012, 07:15:29 PM
Dogs seem to experience joy with an intensity that would probably shatter my mind. I am a little envious.
I am more than a little envious.
Fuckin' dogs and their fuckin' ability to experience happiness in its entirety...
DAMN FRONTAL LOBES! :argh!:
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 25, 2012, 03:17:54 AM
I'm reading through the whole thread you linked me and it does a good job of rejecting the idea that we are just a collectiOn of memes. If you think we are more than just memes, I would liketo know what about us is more than a competing collection of ideas. I don't have any stake in the answer, it's just that I've hear you saying 'we are more than this...' enough to wonder "why?"
I'm me. I am not a collection of viral ideas, of absorbed commercials and opinions.
Why? Because I am the sexiest Goddamn primate for miles in any direction. I can wreck a car, fix that car, fuck up a county fair, and give women a fake orgasm from across the room. I am the unverified alternative, the equally valid theory, the piss in your wheaties.
I don't have to explain why I'm not just a meat robot, because anyone who needs that explained is spending time pretending to be a meat robot. A soul? The only soul I'm sure of walks around in the form of George Clinton. Like I said, I have no answers, but I am not a meat robot
by the very act of not wanting to be one.Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Dingo. It's not like you have any choice.
Also:
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 25, 2012, 03:17:54 AM
The MBPTI is the Myer Briggs personality test.
Sort of like the Dewey Decimal System for people.
If you can be reduced to a 4 letter description, then you should probably stop thinking about it and go raise hell until you feel like a human again.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 08:50:39 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 25, 2012, 03:17:54 AM
I'm reading through the whole thread you linked me and it does a good job of rejecting the idea that we are just a collectiOn of memes. If you think we are more than just memes, I would liketo know what about us is more than a competing collection of ideas. I don't have any stake in the answer, it's just that I've hear you saying 'we are more than this...' enough to wonder "why?"
I'm me. I am not a collection of viral ideas, of absorbed commercials and opinions.
Why? Because I am the sexiest Goddamn primate for miles in any direction. I can wreck a car, fix that car, fuck up a county fair, and give women a fake orgasm from across the room. I am the unverified alternative, the equally valid theory, the piss in your wheaties.
I don't have to explain why I'm not just a meat robot, because anyone who needs that explained is spending time pretending to be a meat robot. A soul? The only soul I'm sure of walks around in the form of George Clinton. Like I said, I have no answers, but I am not a meat robot by the very act of not wanting to be one.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Dingo. It's not like you have any choice.
:mittens:
Using Khaneman's schema, I have a very basic idea of free will:
System 1 thinking is not free will. System 1 thinking is all automatic. Reading a simple sentence, turning your head to locate a sound, doing a very simple sum...all of these are System 1 activities. System 1 runs constantly, whenever you are awake.
System 2 is free will. System 2 involves use of memory, focus and complex tasks generally. System 2 runs at a low level, in the background, and can be overtaxed by sufficiently difficult tasks.
Most psychology tests for "free will", I've noticed, involve some especially simple tasks, for various reasons. However, simple tasks are likey to cause our System 1 responses to take over - and since that is virtually automatic, of course we make a decision before we are consciously aware of it.
This also implies free will is not something that applies all the time, and is something that takes work to cultivate.
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 11:12:30 PM
Using Khaneman's schema, I have a very basic idea of free will:
System 1 thinking is not free will. System 1 thinking is all automatic. Reading a simple sentence, turning your head to locate a sound, doing a very simple sum...all of these are System 1 activities. System 1 runs constantly, whenever you are awake.
System 2 is free will. System 2 involves use of memory, focus and complex tasks generally. System 2 runs at a low level, in the background, and can be overtaxed by sufficiently difficult tasks.
Most psychology tests for "free will", I've noticed, involve some especially simple tasks, for various reasons. However, simple tasks are likey to cause our System 1 responses to take over - and since that is virtually automatic, of course we make a decision before we are consciously aware of it.
This also implies free will is not something that applies all the time, and is something that takes work to cultivate.
Not only did you define free will, you pretty much clarified how to test for it. You are therefore better than millions of philosophers. :mittens:
Bad ass, Cain. That sums up many of my thoughts as well, hitting at the heart of "it can run down/out" leaving you with System 1 responses until you can recuperate.
During my PeleKai / Kali-Escrima training this happened:
I spent 2-3 minutes wandering a room counting the "7 posters" after I stressed myself to totally exhausted on a heavy bag..... I was astounded to find out that there were only 5. But my sensei said "seven" (after the whole "keep hitting the bag!!!" chants) so my System 1 reflexes & previous trust had me stumbling around the room, nearly delirious, looking for 2 posters that simply didn't exist (and recounting the ones there 2 times over until I "got it" on the third try).
I love that my sensei mindfucked me to make that point.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 08:52:16 PM
Also:
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 25, 2012, 03:17:54 AM
The MBPTI is the Myer Briggs personality test.
Sort of like the Dewey Decimal System for people.
If you can be reduced to a 4 letter description, then you should probably stop thinking about it and go raise hell until you feel like a human again.
I'm an extroverted introvert who ignores her intuition to obstinately insist on focusing on only what can be measured even when the "tea leaves" are screaming a different message. I battle with logic but have too big of a heart to stick very hard to any "logical" solution if it means someone gets the shit end of the stick and I can never seem to make up my fucking mind about anything.
I broke their fucking test with my crazy.
Quote from: navkat on May 01, 2012, 02:05:18 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 08:52:16 PM
Also:
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 25, 2012, 03:17:54 AM
The MBPTI is the Myer Briggs personality test.
Sort of like the Dewey Decimal System for people.
If you can be reduced to a 4 letter description, then you should probably stop thinking about it and go raise hell until you feel like a human again.
I'm an extroverted introvert who ignores her intuition to obstinately insist on focusing on only what can be measured even when the "tea leaves" are screaming a different message. I battle with logic but have too big of a heart to stick very hard to any "logical" solution if it means someone gets the shit end of the stick and I can never seem to make up my fucking mind about anything.
I broke their fucking test with my crazy.
My last job had that test. They kept asking me to retake it, because I "contradicted" myself and fucked the test up. Funny thing is, I answered the whole thing honestly.
I had a feeling you and I suffered from the same brand of non-brandedness from the start but the shit that clinched it for me was the Reality Tunnels. I do that shit. I don't even know who I am anymore...probably an amalgamation of all of Them.
I keep coming back to how they told you you contradicted yourself. Like, the test isn't broken, right? No, of course not.
I probably would have been able to suss out which questions were the "offenders" too, and narrowed them down to the simplistically generalized "categories" they were meant to poll about...you know, spirit of the thing versus letter of the thing. I might've even been tempted to change my answers to match what they wanted, just to get them off my back...until some other girl in my head screamed "No, FUCK them. THIS is what they ASKED, THIS is what I ANSWERED. I will NOT jump into one of their sorting bins and further validate this drivel."
Quote from: navkat on May 01, 2012, 02:10:16 PM
I had a feeling you and I suffered from the same brand of non-brandedness from the start but the shit that clinched it for me was the Reality Tunnels. I do that shit. I don't even know who I am anymore...probably an amalgamation of all of Them.
I am none of them and all of them, depending on my mood and on the subject at hand.
I am a human. 4 characters aren't enough to describe me, unless those characters are "PWNT" or "DUMB".
Which leads me to the NEXT supposition/ponderance: how much of these things is an attempt to measure/classify/label and how much is a method for making people obediently classify/label themselves? I mean, the questions and their meanings are profoundly transparent...even on those "color" tests, it's clear there's a theme of "this series of answers makes me a good but stressed leader (likely to rack up speeding tickets and die of a coke overdose) and THAT series makes me a a real team player (better suited for bottom-feeding and bootlicking but liable to accumulate $6000 worth of office supplies at home). If I had to FORCE myself, I guess then YES! I'M A LEADER!"
How much of this happens instantaneously?
How much of our own responses are an act of rebellion that further typecasts ourselves in our own minds?
Would you like me to pass this ol' Harp through the bars?
Quote from: navkat on May 01, 2012, 03:05:12 PM
and how much is a method for making people obediently classify/label themselves?
All of it.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 08:50:39 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on April 25, 2012, 03:17:54 AM
I'm reading through the whole thread you linked me and it does a good job of rejecting the idea that we are just a collectiOn of memes. If you think we are more than just memes, I would liketo know what about us is more than a competing collection of ideas. I don't have any stake in the answer, it's just that I've hear you saying 'we are more than this...' enough to wonder "why?"
I'm me. I am not a collection of viral ideas, of absorbed commercials and opinions.
Why? Because I am the sexiest Goddamn primate for miles in any direction. I can wreck a car, fix that car, fuck up a county fair, and give women a fake orgasm from across the room. I am the unverified alternative, the equally valid theory, the piss in your wheaties.
I don't have to explain why I'm not just a meat robot, because anyone who needs that explained is spending time pretending to be a meat robot. A soul? The only soul I'm sure of walks around in the form of George Clinton. Like I said, I have no answers, but I am not a meat robot by the very act of not wanting to be one.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Dingo. It's not like you have any choice.
That's an awesome answer. In ways, I guess I come back to the same kind of answer personally, but in my own terms. I wasn't actually asking as a 'fuck you' but just because I was curious to understand where you were coming from.
As a general point.
The Myer-Briggs test is there to help you understand
some of the things that explain the way you operate. It's not there to define you completely.
If people are using it in a dicked up way, well, that sounds unpleasant. Personally, I took it myself because I wanted to, and it gave me an idea of a few thnigs I wasn't aware of my brain doing, and found it useful.
Everyone can be reduced to four letters; everyone can be reduced to M or F as well. Saying I'm Male doesn't make me less than human. It's just a way to represent one aspect of the self.
But again,
I found it useful, but if it's a shit model for you, yeah, avoid the fuck out of it I guess.
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 11:12:30 PM
Using Khaneman's schema, I have a very basic idea of free will:
System 1 thinking is not free will. System 1 thinking is all automatic. Reading a simple sentence, turning your head to locate a sound, doing a very simple sum...all of these are System 1 activities. System 1 runs constantly, whenever you are awake.
System 2 is free will. System 2 involves use of memory, focus and complex tasks generally. System 2 runs at a low level, in the background, and can be overtaxed by sufficiently difficult tasks.
Most psychology tests for "free will", I've noticed, involve some especially simple tasks, for various reasons. However, simple tasks are likey to cause our System 1 responses to take over - and since that is virtually automatic, of course we make a decision before we are consciously aware of it.
This also implies free will is not something that applies all the time, and is something that takes work to cultivate.
I really like this. I have an attraction to models of Free Will that offer the idea of free will as a spectrum.
Quote from: Placid Dingo on May 01, 2012, 03:11:01 PM
That's an awesome answer. In ways, I guess I come back to the same kind of answer personally, but in my own terms. I wasn't actually asking as a 'fuck you' but just because I was curious to understand where you were coming from.
I kinda figured. You don't seem to be a member of the "I'm just a collection of head meat" crowd.
Quote from: Placid Dingo on May 01, 2012, 03:11:01 PM
As a general point.
The Myer-Briggs test is there to help you understand some of the things that explain the way you operate. It's not there to define you completely.
Maybe as intended. In daily life, though, it's used as an end-all be-all for hiring purposes.
Quote from: Placid Dingo on May 01, 2012, 03:11:01 PM
If people are using it in a dicked up way, well, that sounds unpleasant. Personally, I took it myself because I wanted to, and it gave me an idea of a few thnigs I wasn't aware of my brain doing, and found it useful.
Hell, there's a whole emo board out there somewhere, dedicated to the fact that they're introverts, because the test told them so. ENTJ? Can't remember.
Quote from: Placid Dingo on May 01, 2012, 03:11:01 PM
Everyone can be reduced to four letters; everyone can be reduced to M or F as well.
Maybe the people you know. Nobody in Tucson is really even sure about the M and F bit.
If not taken too seriously, the MBTI is at least a potentially useful tool for examining one's own biases. I had a little fascination with it for a brief while, then the honeymoon (read: Forer Effect) wore off and I dismissed it. Reducing human personality into 16 archetypes can only be a crude sketch at best, and a misguiding pseudoreligion at worst.
"I tested as an INTJ, and I know that INTJs are supposed to react with X to scenario Y, so I'ma do that!"
edit: or, what Dingo said.
QuoteHell, there's a whole emo board out there somewhere, dedicated to the fact that they're introverts, because the test told them so. ENTJ? Can't remember.
The INTJ freaks (sadly enough, the category I usually fall into with this test). Precisely one of their number was cool enough to join us on our Safari at the time.
Right, so you're not really assessing anything and neither are they. Oh, they may think they are on the lower levels but really, what's happening is that the lady comes in, takes your answers, codes you and has the little leadership talk with you.
What really happens is this: you get a piece of paper that says "sack up, Johnny. Are you a DO bee or a DON'T bee? Pick your path NOW." So you face a few questions that make you go: "A or B....hrmm...I don't like either of those choices. I guess I'll have to say A." Then, when faced with the next question, you've already defined your feelings so you stick with the A-theme.
You get scored and you get an entertaining speech from a cute woman, raving about your "red-green" qualities. Your boss gets a copy of your scores and the whole hive goes about validating and reinforcing your inclusion in the "worker bee" or "nurse bee" or "guard bee" or "drone" category.
Welcome to zombo.com. You can do anything, go anywhere, as long as you stay here...on zombo.com!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 01, 2012, 03:14:07 PM
Hell, there's a whole emo board out there somewhere, dedicated to the fact that they're introverts, because the test told them so. ENTJ? Can't remember.
hxxp://intjforum.com/
"Masterminds, innovators, villains, virgins."
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 01, 2012, 03:14:07 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on May 01, 2012, 03:11:01 PM
If people are using it in a dicked up way, well, that sounds unpleasant. Personally, I took it myself because I wanted to, and it gave me an idea of a few thnigs I wasn't aware of my brain doing, and found it useful.
Hell, there's a whole emo board out there somewhere, dedicated to the fact that they're introverts, because the test told them so. ENTJ? Can't remember.
Yeah, INTP and INTJ generally. I tend to test as INTP, and spent about ten minutes on the INTP forum before I realised those guys were a bunch of dicks. And exactly the problem that's been discussed - they would say, oh I wish I could do blahblah, but you know, I'm INTROVERTED. What I had (naively) hoped for was, 'I want to do this, I'm introverted, so how can I best approach the situation. There's no POINT in doing all the work to identify your weak points in ANY system unless you want to, you know, make them better.
And it's completely stupid to use MBPTI in most work situations afaik. Though I know ASIO (Aussie CIA) use it, and a bajillion others, and can understand why.
Quote from: navkat on May 01, 2012, 03:24:34 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 01, 2012, 03:14:07 PM
Hell, there's a whole emo board out there somewhere, dedicated to the fact that they're introverts, because the test told them so. ENTJ? Can't remember.
hxxp://intjforum.com/
"Masterminds, innovators, villains, virgins."
Nobody does super serious deadpan 'I'm actually a dark mysterious villain' hyperbole like these guys.
DO EET.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 01, 2012, 02:53:46 PM
Quote from: navkat on May 01, 2012, 02:10:16 PM
I had a feeling you and I suffered from the same brand of non-brandedness from the start but the shit that clinched it for me was the Reality Tunnels. I do that shit. I don't even know who I am anymore...probably an amalgamation of all of Them.
I am none of them and all of them, depending on my mood and on the subject at hand.
I am a human. 4 characters aren't enough to describe me, unless those characters are "PWNT" or "DUMB".
A lot of people view the test as some sort of authoritative measurement of something. Even the long-form version isn't necessarily going to tell you that much, and people can totally have "contradictory" answers, fall into gray areas where they don't land decisively in any particular personality "group", and, best of all, have different results if the test is administered on different days.
Most obnoxiously, the test questions appear not to have been revised in decades, so if you've taken the test once you now know how to game it, consciously or unconsciously.
Also, it uses sociability to gauge introversion.
SOCIABILITY AND INTROVERSION ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 01, 2012, 03:14:07 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on May 01, 2012, 03:11:01 PM
Everyone can be reduced to four letters; everyone can be reduced to M or F as well.
Maybe the people you know. Nobody in Tucson is really even sure about the M and F bit.
Thank goodness, too. This world would be a bit less interesting without all the queers.
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2012, 04:37:04 PM
Also, it uses sociability to gauge introversion.
SOCIABILITY AND INTROVERSION ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
Definitely. I know a highly socialble introvert who absolutely requires solid alone time every day, but you wouldn't know it from the number of friends he has or the way he socializes.
Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on May 02, 2012, 04:00:32 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2012, 04:37:04 PM
Also, it uses sociability to gauge introversion.
SOCIABILITY AND INTROVERSION ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
Definitely. I know a highly socialble introvert who absolutely requires solid alone time every day, but you wouldn't know it from the number of friends he has or the way he socializes.
Yep. And there are the bizarrely asocial extroverts who alienate everyone they meet.
Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on May 02, 2012, 03:59:22 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 01, 2012, 03:14:07 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on May 01, 2012, 03:11:01 PM
Everyone can be reduced to four letters; everyone can be reduced to M or F as well.
Maybe the people you know. Nobody in Tucson is really even sure about the M and F bit.
Thank goodness, too. This world would be a bit less interesting without all the queers.
The world would be a lot less interesting without all the variation we have. Ethnicities, race, orientation, inclination, and even the teabaggers (who are not as pleasant as the rest, but still interesting).
The thought of an homogenous world, or even an homogenous community, fills me with loathing.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 02, 2012, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on May 02, 2012, 03:59:22 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 01, 2012, 03:14:07 PM
Quote from: Placid Dingo on May 01, 2012, 03:11:01 PM
Everyone can be reduced to four letters; everyone can be reduced to M or F as well.
Maybe the people you know. Nobody in Tucson is really even sure about the M and F bit.
Thank goodness, too. This world would be a bit less interesting without all the queers.
The world would be a lot less interesting without all the variation we have. Ethnicities, race, orientation, inclination, and even the teabaggers (who are not as pleasant as the rest, but still interesting).
The thought of an homogenous world, or even an homogenous community, fills me with loathing.
It would be wretched.