NEVER CORRECT AN ANARCHIST'S GRAMMAR. You will be listening for three hours why grammar NAZIISM is what keeps the WHOLE CORRUPT SYSTEM going...And/or how he has the RIGHT to construct a sentence however he likes and oh yeah, ATTICAAAAA!
Come to think of it, just never talk to an anarchist at all until they're on the nod. They're much more interesting people when they're sleeping off some heroin.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 10:27:08 PM
NEVER CORRECT AN ANARCHIST'S GRAMMAR. You will be listening for three hours why grammar NAZIISM is what keeps the WHOLE CORRUPT SYSTEM going...And/or how he has the RIGHT to construct a sentence however he likes and oh yeah, ATTICAAAAA!
Come to think of it, just never talk to an anarchist at all until they're on the nod. They're much more interesting people when they're sleeping off some heroin.
:lulz:
Being oppressed by grammar and spelling?
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 27, 2012, 10:52:17 PM
Being oppressed by grammar and spelling?
We have a new guy in operations! :banana:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 27, 2012, 10:52:17 PM
Being oppressed by grammar and spelling?
We have a new guy in operations! :banana:
For your sake, I hope he has a functioning brain in his skull.
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:01:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 27, 2012, 10:52:17 PM
Being oppressed by grammar and spelling?
We have a new guy in operations! :banana:
For your sake, I hope he has a functioning brain in his skull.
UM..."ANARCHIST".
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 11:01:59 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:01:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 27, 2012, 10:52:17 PM
Being oppressed by grammar and spelling?
We have a new guy in operations! :banana:
For your sake, I hope he has a functioning brain in his skull.
UM..."ANARCHIST".
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Yeah, well...
In that case, I hope that if and when he gets somebody maimed, just him...
Oh.... Oh my......
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:07:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 11:01:59 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:01:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 27, 2012, 10:52:17 PM
Being oppressed by grammar and spelling?
We have a new guy in operations! :banana:
For your sake, I hope he has a functioning brain in his skull.
UM..."ANARCHIST".
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Yeah, well...
In that case, I hope that if and when he gets somebody maimed, just him...
I can't be worried about that. I just saw him carrying a load of heavy-ass piping, so I stuck my head out the window of my air conditioned office and yelled "SOLIDARITY, BROTHER! POPULAR FRONT!"
I don't think he likes me as much as I like him. :sadbanana:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 11:09:51 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:07:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 11:01:59 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:01:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 27, 2012, 10:52:17 PM
Being oppressed by grammar and spelling?
We have a new guy in operations! :banana:
For your sake, I hope he has a functioning brain in his skull.
UM..."ANARCHIST".
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Yeah, well...
In that case, I hope that if and when he gets somebody maimed, just him...
I can't be worried about that. I just saw him carrying a load of heavy-ass piping, so I stuck my head out the window of my air conditioned office and yelled "SOLIDARITY, BROTHER! POPULAR FRONT!"
I don't think he likes me as much as I like him. :sadbanana:
Maybe he just needs more time to appreciate your sterling qualities.
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:11:41 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 11:09:51 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:07:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 11:01:59 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:01:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 27, 2012, 10:52:17 PM
Being oppressed by grammar and spelling?
We have a new guy in operations! :banana:
For your sake, I hope he has a functioning brain in his skull.
UM..."ANARCHIST".
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Yeah, well...
In that case, I hope that if and when he gets somebody maimed, just him...
I can't be worried about that. I just saw him carrying a load of heavy-ass piping, so I stuck my head out the window of my air conditioned office and yelled "SOLIDARITY, BROTHER! POPULAR FRONT!"
I don't think he likes me as much as I like him. :sadbanana:
Maybe he just needs more time to appreciate your sterling qualities.
AND my commitment to The Revolution.
Imagine him filthy assistant ernie and mike the engineer trying to band together. :lol:
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 27, 2012, 11:12:42 PM
Imagine him filthy assistant ernie and mike the engineer trying to band together. :lol:
IT'S LIKE CATS CATS CATS CATS CATS
BACK IN THE DAY IT'S LIKE CATS CATS CATS
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 11:14:50 PM
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 27, 2012, 11:12:42 PM
Imagine him filthy assistant ernie and mike the engineer trying to band together. :lol:
IT'S LIKE CATS CATS CATS CATS CATS
BACK IN THE DAY IT'S LIKE CATS CATS CATS
Shit, that'd be amusing enough to suggest it to them...
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 11:09:51 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:07:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 11:01:59 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:01:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 27, 2012, 10:52:17 PM
Being oppressed by grammar and spelling?
We have a new guy in operations! :banana:
For your sake, I hope he has a functioning brain in his skull.
UM..."ANARCHIST".
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Yeah, well...
In that case, I hope that if and when he gets somebody maimed, just him...
I can't be worried about that. I just saw him carrying a load of heavy-ass piping, so I stuck my head out the window of my air conditioned office and yelled "SOLIDARITY, BROTHER! POPULAR FRONT!"
I don't think he likes me as much as I like him. :sadbanana:
:lulz: Why do you get to have all the fun???
Quote from: Nigel on April 28, 2012, 12:14:05 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 11:09:51 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:07:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 11:01:59 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:01:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 27, 2012, 10:52:17 PM
Being oppressed by grammar and spelling?
We have a new guy in operations! :banana:
For your sake, I hope he has a functioning brain in his skull.
UM..."ANARCHIST".
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Yeah, well...
In that case, I hope that if and when he gets somebody maimed, just him...
I can't be worried about that. I just saw him carrying a load of heavy-ass piping, so I stuck my head out the window of my air conditioned office and yelled "SOLIDARITY, BROTHER! POPULAR FRONT!"
I don't think he likes me as much as I like him. :sadbanana:
:lulz: Why do you get to have all the fun???
Because Tuscon loves him the best.
I learned everything I needed to know about idealist Anarchist communities by visiting Christiania (Kopenhagen, Denmark).
Short version: you may start out with a really good idea and if the rest of the group shares your vision there is even a reasonable chance that it will last for some time. However it is inevitable that the make-up of the community changes, people grow older, leave, and others join. Without some kind of societal structure that transcends the individual, the original vision will disappear because there's not enough people championing it anymore. And "some kind of societal structure that transcends the individual" is exactly what Anarchists denounce as THE SYSTEM which oppresses, you know, the individual.
And then 30 years later your roads look like shit because nobody ever fixed them, the beautiful artsy landscaping projects made in the first generation are crumbling and filthy, broken windows, alcoholic drunks populating your two pubs, you've been forced to instate rules to stop drug-dealing street gangs, and you're still dependent on Kopenhagen's infrastructure, police and fire department, so you had to negotiate some deals concerning taxation.
And you're neither an Anarchist sovereign state nor a prospering community of other sorts.
At least you are an example.
Quote from: Nigel on April 28, 2012, 12:14:05 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 11:09:51 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:07:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 11:01:59 PM
Quote from: Luna on April 27, 2012, 11:01:05 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 27, 2012, 10:52:48 PM
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 27, 2012, 10:52:17 PM
Being oppressed by grammar and spelling?
We have a new guy in operations! :banana:
For your sake, I hope he has a functioning brain in his skull.
UM..."ANARCHIST".
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Yeah, well...
In that case, I hope that if and when he gets somebody maimed, just him...
I can't be worried about that. I just saw him carrying a load of heavy-ass piping, so I stuck my head out the window of my air conditioned office and yelled "SOLIDARITY, BROTHER! POPULAR FRONT!"
I don't think he likes me as much as I like him. :sadbanana:
:lulz: Why do you get to have all the fun???
(http://blogs.ocweekly.com/heardmentality/the-left-rights-im-on-crack-550.jpg)
We spent a good bit of time at the LARP singing that...
That's grand, Dok. :lulz:
Trip- you should look up brook farm. It wasnt anarchist but it was a protocommunist community founded in my home town before it was annexed by boston. Ralph waldo emerson declined to join it. Presumably because his mother couldnt get there to bring him cookies while he was roughing it.
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 28, 2012, 01:24:58 PM
Trip- you should look up brook farm. It wasnt anarchist but it was a protocommunist community founded in my home town before it was annexed by boston. Ralph waldo emerson declined to join it. Presumably because his mother couldnt get there to bring him cookies while he was roughing it.
according to Wikipedia it only lasted 7 years or so?
BTW I'm not saying that self-sufficient communal living can never be sustainable, just that the Anarchist ones have a limited shelf-life.
Yeah didnt last too long. One of the problems was that the soil wasnt that good iirc.
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 28, 2012, 07:12:25 PM
Yeah didnt last too long. One of the problems was that the soil wasnt that good iirc.
I never understood why anarchists form communes.
It seems to defeat the whole point.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 29, 2012, 05:56:06 AM
Quote from: The Twiddlerat0r on April 28, 2012, 07:12:25 PM
Yeah didnt last too long. One of the problems was that the soil wasnt that good iirc.
I never understood why anarchists form communes.
It seems to defeat the whole point.
We need to not have rules so lets form a community with rules. You don't have to follow these rules, but if you decide not to, please go elsewhere. :lulz:
That said, despite the fact that Brook Farm was a total failure in utopianism, it did last 7 years, which is more than be probably said for similar experiments.
Also another failure of Brook Farm, again, IIRC (need to re-research. I did a paper on it it but that was a while ago) is that it was a group of intellectuals who figured that you could divvy up tasks for the community to survive and have actual follow through. In a group of idealists who were hippie intellectuals that some how existed a century before they were supposed to exist. With no farming skills. That even Ralph Emerson turned down.
I have just been told that I, personally, am responsible for all the deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan.
But how did he know? WHICH ONE OF YOU TOLD?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:06:20 PM
I have just been told that I, personally, am responsible for all the deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan.
But how did he know? WHICH ONE OF YOU TOLD?
It was me. :( Sorry, I thought it wasn't a secret.
The justification for this seems to be that I work for a multinational.
When I pointed out that he, too, works for the very same multinational, I was told that it was different because I'm in management.
By this logic, Nazi camp guards should not have been prosecuted. When I explained this, he began to froth about how the holocaust was a myth started up by "international bankers" (read: Jews).
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:12:46 PM
The justification for this seems to be that I work for a multinational.
When I pointed out that he, too, works for the very same multinational, I was told that it was different because I'm in management.
By this logic, Nazi camp guards should not have been prosecuted. When I explained this, he began to froth about how the holocaust was a myth started up by "international bankers" (read: Jews).
WAT.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:12:46 PM
The justification for this seems to be that I work for a multinational.
When I pointed out that he, too, works for the very same multinational, I was told that it was different because I'm in management.
By this logic, Nazi camp guards should not have been prosecuted. When I explained this, he began to froth about how the holocaust was a myth started up by "international bankers" (read: Jews).
WHOOO-HOO-HOOOO! :lulz:
That doesn't quite convey what I'm feeling...
WAT.
There, that's better.
:lulz:
I dare wonder what his opinion of the military is.
Quote from: Guru Coyote on April 30, 2012, 07:18:49 PM
:lulz:
I dare wonder what his opinion of the military is.
Lemme go check. BRB.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:19:39 PM
Quote from: Guru Coyote on April 30, 2012, 07:18:49 PM
:lulz:
I dare wonder what his opinion of the military is.
Lemme go check. BRB.
OOOOO TELL HIM THAT YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO COORDINATED AIRDROPS OF SUPPLIES INTO AFGHANISTAN!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Cainad on April 30, 2012, 07:17:28 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:12:46 PM
The justification for this seems to be that I work for a multinational.
When I pointed out that he, too, works for the very same multinational, I was told that it was different because I'm in management.
By this logic, Nazi camp guards should not have been prosecuted. When I explained this, he began to froth about how the holocaust was a myth started up by "international bankers" (read: Jews).
WHOOO-HOO-HOOOO! :lulz:
It's like Christmas in April!
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:19:39 PM
Quote from: Guru Coyote on April 30, 2012, 07:18:49 PM
:lulz:
I dare wonder what his opinion of the military is.
Lemme go check. BRB.
Reactionary tools of the Rothschilds. :lulz:
I shit you not.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:23:02 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:19:39 PM
Quote from: Guru Coyote on April 30, 2012, 07:18:49 PM
:lulz:
I dare wonder what his opinion of the military is.
Lemme go check. BRB.
Reactionary tools of the Rothschilds. :lulz:
I shit you not.
What, all of them?? :lulz:
ETA: All the militaries...
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:23:02 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:19:39 PM
Quote from: Guru Coyote on April 30, 2012, 07:18:49 PM
:lulz:
I dare wonder what his opinion of the military is.
Lemme go check. BRB.
Reactionary tools of the Rothschilds. :lulz:
I shit you not.
:lulz: Isn't that some medieval secret society? Sounds like you got a liveone. Someone should anonymously send him coded message with Rothschild letterhead.
I sometimes wonder if all the intelligent anarchists (IOZ and Kevin Carson aside) died in the 19th century or something.
Because I'm fairly sure Benjamin Tucker and Pierre-Joseph Proudhon did not go around accosting people about how they are all, like, tools of the machine, man and generally burping out slogans with all the depth and import of a Youtube comment.
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 07:29:05 PM
I sometimes wonder if all the intelligent anarchists (IOZ and Kevin Carson aside) died in the 19th century or something.
Because I'm fairly sure Benjamin Tucker and Pierre-Joseph Proudhon did not go around accosting people about how they are all, like, tools of the machine, man and generally burping out slogans with all the depth and import of a Youtube comment.
It's funnier in person, Cain. He gets all wound up and bounces up and down.
AND WE HAVE CHEMTRAILS! :lulz:
He's sitting in my office right now, complaining about how "exposed" we are because the end of the Davis Monthan AFB runway is only about a mile away.
:lulz:
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd Ron Paul.
We have the trifecta.
:awesome:
So he's basically Godlikeproductions in meat form? :lol:
Quote from: Cainad on April 30, 2012, 07:37:33 PM
So he's basically Godlikeproductions in meat form? :lol:
Yep. Now he's all pissed, because I sent him back to slave for The Man.
I love being me.
ETA: Gotta find out his opinion on Nibiru.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:32:36 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 07:29:05 PM
I sometimes wonder if all the intelligent anarchists (IOZ and Kevin Carson aside) died in the 19th century or something.
Because I'm fairly sure Benjamin Tucker and Pierre-Joseph Proudhon did not go around accosting people about how they are all, like, tools of the machine, man and generally burping out slogans with all the depth and import of a Youtube comment.
It's funnier in person, Cain. He gets all wound up and bounces up and down.
Oh, I know exactly what you mean. Because our school teaches a politics class, which is utterly useless (much as you'd expect), and some people know I have a history/poli sci background, I occasionally have to put up with "[retarded idea] is really awesome, don't you think, sir?" Whereupon I have to disabuse them of their faulty worldview.
Anarchism hasn't come up yet, but when it does it's definitely going to be more "anarchy is your afternoon sports class for all eternity" and less "Go read
Demanding the Impossible and get back to me on that."
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:36:25 PM
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd Ron Paul.
We have the trifecta.
You need to accuse him of being a closet statist, complicit in the system he decries.
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 07:40:53 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:36:25 PM
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd Ron Paul.
We have the trifecta.
You need to accuse him of being a closet statist, complicit in the system he decries.
Gonna do just that.
BRB.
On Nibiru:
"What, do you think I'm some sort of conspiracy freak?"
On being a closet statist:
"Ron Paul is a friend to anarchists, because he supports property rights." <--- No shit. He said that.
:lulz:
Ask him which is more important - dismantling the state (which, accepting the anarchist premise, is the greatest threat to property rights) or picking a benevolent overlord to make sure the state is a little bit less bad than normal, for a short time.
I've just realised I'm getting into an argument by proxy, here.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:43:42 PM
"Ron Paul is a friend to anarchists, because he supports property rights." <--- No shit. He said that.
HUH?!
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 07:45:11 PM
:lulz:
Ask him which is more important - dismantling the state (which, accepting the anarchist premise, is the greatest threat to property rights) or picking a benevolent overlord to make sure the state is a little bit less bad than normal, for a short time.
:lulz:
This thread is highly amusing.
Do you actually laugh in these people's faces when you talk to them, Dok? It seems like it would be almost impossible not to.
Also, "What, do you think I'm some kind of conspiracy freak?" THE IRONY! :lulz:
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 07:45:51 PM
I've just realised I'm getting into an argument by proxy, here.
I prefer to think of it as trans-Atlantic badger-baiting.
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on April 30, 2012, 07:51:05 PM
Do you actually laugh in these people's faces when you talk to them, Dok?
Yes. I don't want to sprain anything.
OMFGoddess..... :lulz:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:51:58 PM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on April 30, 2012, 07:51:05 PM
Do you actually laugh in these people's faces when you talk to them, Dok?
Yes. I don't want to sprain anything.
Not laughing would probably require Olympic level training.
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 07:45:11 PM
:lulz:
Ask him which is more important - dismantling the state (which, accepting the anarchist premise, is the greatest threat to property rights) or picking a benevolent overlord to make sure the state is a little bit less bad than normal, for a short time.
Current situation ---> Free market libertarianism
1 ---> Anarchy
1 He added that we have to get rid of banks and corporations first, though.
So...reduce the state to its most coercive elements (Libertarians argue for the existence of armies and police officers...in a public or private/mixed capacity) and then the state will undo itself.
This seems suspiciously similar to Leninism: create a coercive, centralized state in the hands of a few key people, which will lead to the state withering away. Somehow. Don't question it, it's science historical necessity.
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 08:13:04 PM
So...reduce the state to its most coercive elements (Libertarians argue for the existence of armies and police officers...in a public or private/mixed capacity) and then the state will undo itself.
This seems suspiciously similar to Leninism: create a coercive, centralized state in the hands of a few key people, which will lead to the state withering away. Somehow. Don't question it, it's science historical necessity.
Oh, there's no logic to this kid. He's happy just to drive people into homicidal rages in the lunch room. He thinks it's because he's blowing their minds...In actuality, it's because he's a lunatic disrupting their lunch hour.
Yeah, I'm getting that impression. He should wear a t-shirt saying "U MAD BRO?".
I like poking logical holes in such people's arguments. It inevitably reduces them to a frothing rage. Especially libertarian types, who have to believe their ideas are based on Reason, and thus are superior to everyone else.
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 08:17:09 PM
Yeah, I'm getting that impression. He should wear a t-shirt saying "U MAD BRO?".
I like poking logical holes in such people's arguments. It inevitably reduces them to a frothing rage. Especially libertarian types, who have to believe their ideas are based on Reason, and thus are superior to everyone else.
Actually, his t-shirt should read "LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEE!"
Or "I NEED AN ADULT!"
In any case, he's funny. I thought for a moment or two that he was taking the piss, but then he started handing out ripped copies of Alex Jones movies. Our company's code of conduct forbids that, but that's not up to me to enforce, and it's just too funny to fuck with.
:lulz:
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 08:17:09 PM
Yeah, I'm getting that impression. He should wear a t-shirt saying "U MAD BRO?".
I like poking logical holes in such people's arguments. It inevitably reduces them to a frothing rage. Especially libertarian types, who have to believe their ideas are based on Reason, and thus are superior to everyone else.
I think I'm at the point where I'm not sure "ideas based on reason" are a thing.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on April 30, 2012, 08:45:54 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 08:17:09 PM
Yeah, I'm getting that impression. He should wear a t-shirt saying "U MAD BRO?".
I like poking logical holes in such people's arguments. It inevitably reduces them to a frothing rage. Especially libertarian types, who have to believe their ideas are based on Reason, and thus are superior to everyone else.
I think I'm at the point where I'm not sure "ideas based on reason" are a thing.
Sure they are.
They're just really bad at reaching predetermined, irrational conclusions so they tend not to get a lot of love.
Quote from: Cainad on May 01, 2012, 01:17:44 AM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on April 30, 2012, 08:45:54 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 08:17:09 PM
Yeah, I'm getting that impression. He should wear a t-shirt saying "U MAD BRO?".
I like poking logical holes in such people's arguments. It inevitably reduces them to a frothing rage. Especially libertarian types, who have to believe their ideas are based on Reason, and thus are superior to everyone else.
I think I'm at the point where I'm not sure "ideas based on reason" are a thing.
Sure they are.
They're just really bad at reaching predetermined, irrational conclusions so they tend not to get a lot of love.
Good point.
I guess what I really meant there is that when I hear somebody claim to have made a decision or formed an opinion based on reason, I usually don't have a lot of faith in what is about to happen.
Or, if you like, there are a lot of "ideas based on reason", but very few ideas based on reason.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on May 01, 2012, 04:30:54 AM
Quote from: Cainad on May 01, 2012, 01:17:44 AM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on April 30, 2012, 08:45:54 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 08:17:09 PM
Yeah, I'm getting that impression. He should wear a t-shirt saying "U MAD BRO?".
I like poking logical holes in such people's arguments. It inevitably reduces them to a frothing rage. Especially libertarian types, who have to believe their ideas are based on Reason, and thus are superior to everyone else.
I think I'm at the point where I'm not sure "ideas based on reason" are a thing.
Sure they are.
They're just really bad at reaching predetermined, irrational conclusions so they tend not to get a lot of love.
Good point.
I guess what I really meant there is that when I hear somebody claim to have made a decision or formed an opinion based on reason, I usually don't have a lot of faith in what is about to happen.
Or, if you like, there are a lot of "ideas based on reason", but very few ideas based on reason.
QUIZZICAL
,yet skeptical mr.spock face looking at you
IMO, ideas (can be) refined by Reason. Ideas are 'based' on slamming two previously unrelated concepts/experiences together.
Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
You know, most people have an idea, and then go around talking about how reasonable it is and how much sense it makes, and BY THE WAY what is up with those non-nuking France types and why can't they just think for themselves like pro-nuking France types do.
Or you could talk to some 9/11 conspiracy types. They're all about logic and reason, but generally the only reason their ideas are based on is whatever reason they had for not looking up counterpoints to their own arguments, like a person interested in the truth might do.
I guess the argument starts to fall apart when you consider things like medical research that brings us cures for diseases. In theory, those were probably made using some kind of logical approach.
Quote from: E.O.T. on May 01, 2012, 05:01:16 AM
QUIZZICAL
,yet skeptical mr.spock face looking at you
Don't worry, as a professional delivery person, I am
more than qualified probably full of shit.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 30, 2012, 07:12:46 PM
The justification for this seems to be that I work for a multinational.
When I pointed out that he, too, works for the very same multinational, I was told that it was different because I'm in management.
By this logic, Nazi camp guards should not have been prosecuted. When I explained this, he began to froth about how the holocaust was a myth started up by "international bankers" (read: Jews).
I predict HOURS of entertainment! :lol:
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on May 01, 2012, 04:30:54 AM
Quote from: Cainad on May 01, 2012, 01:17:44 AM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on April 30, 2012, 08:45:54 PM
Quote from: Cain on April 30, 2012, 08:17:09 PM
Yeah, I'm getting that impression. He should wear a t-shirt saying "U MAD BRO?".
I like poking logical holes in such people's arguments. It inevitably reduces them to a frothing rage. Especially libertarian types, who have to believe their ideas are based on Reason, and thus are superior to everyone else.
I think I'm at the point where I'm not sure "ideas based on reason" are a thing.
Sure they are.
They're just really bad at reaching predetermined, irrational conclusions so they tend not to get a lot of love.
Good point.
I guess what I really meant there is that when I hear somebody claim to have made a decision or formed an opinion based on reason, I usually don't have a lot of faith in what is about to happen.
Or, if you like, there are a lot of "ideas based on reason", but very few ideas based on reason.
No.
No.
No.
Ideas may be based in inspiration, but even inspiration, like intuition, is informed by reason, which in turn is informed by observation.
The idea may be incorrect due to faulty reasoning or observation, but all ideas are based in conscious or unconscious reasoning. It's what an idea
IS.
I don't know about that. I think the "slamming two unrelated concepts together" is a good way to put it, and the slamming can in certain cases also be caused by an external factor.
And what, exactly is "unconscious reasoning", does that even exist?
I second that disagreement, obviously. But potentially for different reasons.
When I say ideas based in reason I'm talking about something that was prepared using sound logic. A lot of people claim to be using logic, and they may have reasoned their way to a conclusion, but that conclusion can still end up being wrong.
I guess my point there is that someone can reason their way to an unreasonable conclusion. Just because you observe something and make what you perceive to be an informed decision doesn't actually make you right.
For instance, if you still disagree, you could note that I think I'm using logic to arrive at a legitimate conclusion. That doesn't actually make me right.
I just mindfucked myself.
Quote from: Triple Zero on May 01, 2012, 04:23:04 PM
I don't know about that. I think the "slamming two unrelated concepts together" is a good way to put it, and the slamming can in certain cases also be caused by an external factor.
And what, exactly is "unconscious reasoning", does that even exist?
"Unconscious reasoning" is the instant, non-deliberate analysis of hundreds of tiny pieces of information you take in constantly that affect your decision-making process without consciously considering them.
In what way is "slamming two ideas together" (AKA putting two and two together) not a use of reasoning? For that matter, most ideas are not epiphanic moments such as the "AHA!" of suddenly seeing how seemingly disparate things relate, but develop slowly with the accumulation of data.
Perhaps we're not using the same definition of reason. To make sure we're on the same page, http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/reason%5Bverb%5D?show=0&t=1335912370
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2012, 11:49:24 PM
Perhaps we're not using the same definition of reason. To make sure we're on the same page, http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/reason%5Bverb%5D?show=0&t=1335912370
I'm 100% sure we aren't.
You (I think): "People have to reason to make any kind of idea."
Me: "People think they are being sooo smart but really they're just dumb and stuff."
So, in that respect we are both right? Now we just have to figure out who is MORE right, and that person obviously gets life-points
(a registered trademark of buffalo rock).
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on May 02, 2012, 05:24:25 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2012, 11:49:24 PM
Perhaps we're not using the same definition of reason. To make sure we're on the same page, http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/reason%5Bverb%5D?show=0&t=1335912370
I'm 100% sure we aren't.
You (I think): "People have to reason to make any kind of idea."
Me: "People think they are being sooo smart but really they're just dumb and stuff."
So, in that respect we are both right? Now we just have to figure out who is MORE right, and that person obviously gets life-points (a registered trademark of buffalo rock).
Please apply science and then talk.
Quote from: Nigel on May 02, 2012, 06:05:22 AM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on May 02, 2012, 05:24:25 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2012, 11:49:24 PM
Perhaps we're not using the same definition of reason. To make sure we're on the same page, http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/reason%5Bverb%5D?show=0&t=1335912370
I'm 100% sure we aren't.
You (I think): "People have to reason to make any kind of idea."
Me: "People think they are being sooo smart but really they're just dumb and stuff."
So, in that respect we are both right? Now we just have to figure out who is MORE right, and that person obviously gets life-points (a registered trademark of buffalo rock).
Please apply science and then talk.
Not sure what you are getting at, since we are (were?) arguing entirely different points.
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on May 02, 2012, 08:18:17 PM
Quote from: Nigel on May 02, 2012, 06:05:22 AM
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on May 02, 2012, 05:24:25 AM
Quote from: Nigel on May 01, 2012, 11:49:24 PM
Perhaps we're not using the same definition of reason. To make sure we're on the same page, http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/reason%5Bverb%5D?show=0&t=1335912370
I'm 100% sure we aren't.
You (I think): "People have to reason to make any kind of idea."
Me: "People think they are being sooo smart but really they're just dumb and stuff."
So, in that respect we are both right? Now we just have to figure out who is MORE right, and that person obviously gets life-points (a registered trademark of buffalo rock).
Please apply science and then talk.
Not sure what you are getting at, since we are (were?) arguing entirely different points.
I think the point is "let's either get on the same topic (preferably one that can be discussed rationally), or let's stop talking about this."
Ah, I see.
Well, from where I'm standing the misunderstanding is fairly obvious (we're using entirely different definitions of the word reason), and I don't disagree with Nigel's premise.
So nuff' said, I guess?
To be honest I'm more interested in how Dok's original story is going than in this weird-ass argument(s).
Quote from: Oysters Rockefeller on May 02, 2012, 10:07:04 PM
Ah, I see.
Well, from where I'm standing the misunderstanding is fairly obvious (we're using entirely different definitions of the word reason), and I don't disagree with Nigel's premise.
Which definition are you using?