I am fucking sick of the healthcare system in this country.
"Doctor, doctor! I had no male puberty! I just grew taller and some pubes and small boobs instead!!!"
"Oh okay, w/e. Now about the whole transition thing, no you can't have hormones without a psych assessment, even though you obviously need hormones of SOME SORT because you didn't get puberty."
"Doctor doctor! I get terrible pain in my lower abdomen once a month and what with my body being all different I'm worried there might be something going on!"
"NO YOU CAN'T HAVE ANYTHING GOING ON YOU'RE A BIOLOGICAL MALE DESPITE ALL THE EVIDENCE YOU'RE INTERSEXED AND NO WE WON'T DO TESTS."
I mean where the fuck do these bastards get off on denying me healthcare services I need? If I had money I could just pay to have tests and shit done but since I don't have money it's not going to happen!?
What the fuck is this shit? All they want is for me to take my oestrogen and be a "normal" straight chick.
Well fuck that! I'm a queer intersexed person! I have tits and a cock, and I think that's great!
And if you bastards don't like it you can suck my dick.
Or kill me.
----------------------------------
Another thing I'm fucking sick of?
The mental healthcare system here. I've been having rapid cycling moods for two weeks, and before that I generally was depressed for about three weeks at a time, with a week or so of happy in between. This happy week was mostly filled with being far too happy and becoming irritable and angry a lot. There's also the mixed kinda moods I'm getting lately. These leads me to worry that I have bipolar, and the symptoms are becoming more severe. (My sister has bipolar II, and my Mom doesn't exactly have stable moods either.) Generally I've avoided medication, but since I relapsed on self-harm a few weeks ago, I decided to try again.
So I say to the Doc that I want an assessment first to be sure it's something that's safe to combine with SSRIs or Tricyclic anti-depressants.
They resist at every turn just because I can't fucking pay for it.
They want me to shut the fuck up, take what they give me, and be "normal".
Well get this assholes, I don't want to be "normal" I just want my mood to stop CHANGING ALL THE FUCKING TIME so I can get some fucking work done!
And yet you won't help me do this because I'm broke?
How is this healthcare? If you won't help me take care of myself!?
Well fucking done New Zealand. This insistence that if you can't pay you can just suffer is one of many things that make me want to slit my throat. And the main reason I don't is because I'm going to keep fighting this awful fucking system.
I'm not going to sit down. I'm not going to take the pill. I'm not going to shut up.
I won't stop until you start caring for people who need help.
Or kill me.
So, you follow the American model? :horrormirth:
Except that some things are available publicly still, and NZ likes to pretend that it's magical and progressive and that healthcare is accessible.
That sounds insanely shitty.
Actually, the pain in your lower abdomen is quite alarming. If you have a uterus and are menstruating internally, it could be life-threatening. Have they at least done an ultrasound?
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 01:46:05 AM
Actually, the pain in your lower abdomen is quite alarming. If you have a uterus and are menstruating internally, it could be life-threatening. Have they at least done an ultrasound?
Nope. I don't have a uterus so I can't be menstruating. That's more or less what my endocrinologist told my GP.
Ain't it great.
I know a dude who didn't find out about his uterus until he'd fathered two kids.
Quote from: ChloeBelle82 on May 19, 2012, 02:07:14 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 01:46:05 AM
Actually, the pain in your lower abdomen is quite alarming. If you have a uterus and are menstruating internally, it could be life-threatening. Have they at least done an ultrasound?
Nope. I don't have a uterus so I can't be menstruating. That's more or less what my endocrinologist told my GP.
Ain't it great.
Uhhhhh
OK, but did your endocrinologist DO ANYTHING, using ACTUAL SCIENCE such as MRI or ultrasound or even MANUAL PALPATION to confirm that? Because an endocrinologist is qualified to determine whether you have some certain things going on, but none of those things is the presence or absence of a uterus.
Actually, never mind manual palpation, because that's only useful with a nulliparous uterus in the presence of a vaginal canal, which obviously you don't have.
Depending on your age, it is also possible that you are simply receiving a normal level of conflicting hormonal messages which will self-resolve by the time you are 18-20.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 02:37:17 AM
Depending on your age, it is also possible that you are simply receiving a normal level of conflicting hormonal messages which will self-resolve by the time you are 18-20.
Y'see! I should KNOW THIS because when I asked my endo he should have TOLD me it was a possibility!
But no, he didn't do anything other than say I'm not a girl (XY 46) so no uterus.
I'm not sure how conflicting hormonal messages would work out since I was on anti-androgens (for androgens I don't believe had any effect since I "hit puberty" at 16 or so) for 3 months before I started oestrogen. Also if my body won't absorb or metabolise or whatever the testosterone my body is making I'm not sure if that'd be an issue. But it makes sense in a way.
It just highlights how little information doctors here will give you about anything. Even something as simple as outlining the difference in side-effects for the two blockers I could choose from! GAH FUCK THIS COUNTRY!!! :argh!:
Here in AmericaTM, we tell our doctors what they should give us. If we even have doctors. Which I think the greater majority of us don't.
I got lucky with CODAK, though. I seem to have gotten a doctor who at least listens when I tell her prescriptions for sleep/mood are or are not working.
Quote from: ChloeBelle82 on May 19, 2012, 02:42:39 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 02:37:17 AM
Depending on your age, it is also possible that you are simply receiving a normal level of conflicting hormonal messages which will self-resolve by the time you are 18-20.
Y'see! I should KNOW THIS because when I asked my endo he should have TOLD me it was a possibility!
But no, he didn't do anything other than say I'm not a girl (XY 46) so no uterus.
I'm not sure how conflicting hormonal messages would work out since I was on anti-androgens (for androgens I don't believe had any effect since I "hit puberty" at 16 or so) for 3 months before I started oestrogen. Also if my body won't absorb or metabolise or whatever the testosterone my body is making I'm not sure if that'd be an issue. But it makes sense in a way.
It just highlights how little information doctors here will give you about anything. Even something as simple as outlining the difference in side-effects for the two blockers I could choose from! GAH FUCK THIS COUNTRY!!! :argh!:
I remember having an autistic student in another school. I get kids to teach each other things because
I'm too lazy to teach them myself it helps them to take on those leadership roles and have opportunities to hone those communication skills.
This kid though... he was teaching origami and had so much trouble teaching because HE understood EXACTLY what was going on. As far as he was concerned he knew how to do it, and him knowing was the important thing, and beyond that it was like there was no conceivable need to communicate the knowledge. He KNEW. He solved the problem.
I keep thinking of that lesson when I'm involved with specialists. I had some wisdom teeth issues, plus an itchy red eye with deteriorating vision that was misdiagnosed three or four times. Both the eye specialist and the dentist were so similar. Like, they SOLVED the problem, which was what they wanted to do, so that was the job done. And then they'd say something that made sense to them and try to kick me out.
I learned pretty quickly that I had to be making mental notes before and during the appointment of what I wanted to find out so I could sit in my chair like a stubborn bastard and throw out questions until I actually understood what the hell was up.
TLDR: Specialists seem to often be pretty poor at communicating what you need to know, so be prepared to ask questions until you get the answers you want.
If by ask questions you mean demand answers and if I don't get them tell the Health and Disability advocate I'm being ill-treated. Then yeah, I agree. :evil:
Quote from: ChloeBelle82 on May 19, 2012, 02:42:39 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 02:37:17 AM
Depending on your age, it is also possible that you are simply receiving a normal level of conflicting hormonal messages which will self-resolve by the time you are 18-20.
Y'see! I should KNOW THIS because when I asked my endo he should have TOLD me it was a possibility!
But no, he didn't do anything other than say I'm not a girl (XY 46) so no uterus.
I'm not sure how conflicting hormonal messages would work out since I was on anti-androgens (for androgens I don't believe had any effect since I "hit puberty" at 16 or so) for 3 months before I started oestrogen. Also if my body won't absorb or metabolise or whatever the testosterone my body is making I'm not sure if that'd be an issue. But it makes sense in a way.
It just highlights how little information doctors here will give you about anything. Even something as simple as outlining the difference in side-effects for the two blockers I could choose from! GAH FUCK THIS COUNTRY!!! :argh!:
OK, I am super annoyed with your doctors because XY46 does not rule out intersex characteristics. That is so irritating. It sounds (from what little I can tell from your description) that you have swyer syndrome, which requires at least slightly more delicate handling and communication than "here, take hormones".
Also, I am extremely dismayed about the use of hormones to force your body into one basket or another, regardless of whether you are comfortable with it being indeterminate. You haven't really expressed what you feel most comfortable with, here... what would you prefer? Particularly keeping in mind that approximately one out of one hundred people is naturally born biologically intersexed to some degree, so it ranks quite high in terms of being a natural variation.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 03:24:13 AM
Also, I am extremely dismayed about the use of hormones to force your body into one basket or another, regardless of whether you are comfortable with it being indeterminate. You haven't really expressed what you feel most comfortable with, here... what would you prefer? Particularly keeping in mind that approximately one out of one hundred people is naturally born biologically intersexed to some degree, so it ranks quite high in terms of being a natural variation.
"I am terrified by anyone that does not fit within my narrowly defines binary view of human sex, sexuality and gender, therefore I will use my power as a medical practitioner to force you into something i can understand."
It could be worse. Usually they throw kids into a gender bucket surgically at birth (or at least they used to, I don't know if things have improved).
Personally I think it's PAIS. If only because while I had very weak male puberty, I had some female pubertal development too. Namely my pelvic rotation and shape. And some breast development.
In terms of hormone use. I had to ask and beg and cry for the oestrogen I wanted. I actually had to use the argument that if I wanted to be a man I'd be asking for testosterone, given my boobs and hips. Since the doctors are really fucking determined to avoid talking about my body at all, even though it's kind of their job to help me look after it.
I don't really identify with the binary at all, I just like the curvy shapes and everything, plus they go with my girly personality better. So personally I identify as an "intersexed person" but most of the time I just say I'm a Chloe. Edit: Feminine or Gender-neutral pronouns, btw.
Or a dickgirl if I feel like being overly volatile and pissy.
And I'm well aware it could be worse, if these things had been noticed at puberty I would've been on testosterone for four years now.
And yes they still surgically alter infants to fit the binary.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on May 19, 2012, 03:29:35 AM
It could be worse. Usually they throw kids into a gender bucket surgically at birth (or at least they used to, I don't know if things have improved).
In the US there is SOME effort now to be more careful about it. Not enough effort.
I would say the opposite, surgeons and the like outright refuse to talk to people who've been "treated" by them for their intersex conditions.
They just pretend that whatever they did was a success and sweep it under the rug.
Quote from: ChloeBelle82 on May 19, 2012, 03:35:48 AM
Personally I think it's PAIS. If only because while I had very weak male puberty, I had some female pubertal development too. Namely my pelvic rotation and shape. And some breast development.
In terms of hormone use. I had to ask and beg and cry for the oestrogen I wanted. I actually had to use the argument that if I wanted to be a man I'd be asking for testosterone, given my boobs and hips. Since the doctors are really fucking determined to avoid talking about my body at all, even though it's kind of their job to help me look after it.
I don't really identify with the binary at all, I just like the curvy shapes and everything, plus they go with my girly personality better. So personally I identify as an "intersexed person" but most of the time I just say I'm a Chloe. Edit: Feminine or Gender-neutral pronouns, btw.
Or a dickgirl if I feel like being overly volatile and pissy.
And I'm well aware it could be worse, if these things had been noticed at puberty I would've been on testosterone for four years now.
And yes they still surgically alter infants to fit the binary.
The Pennsylvania Association of Independent Schools?
So, I should probably caution you, I have pretty strong opinions on biology. And very strong sympathy and concern for intersex issues, but very limited sympathy for genderwhoring.
Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome.
And duly noted.
Edit: Going back to my previous post it does sound a little genderwhorey... That wasn't really my intention. I was trying to communicate that I consider me being me and happy in that more important than the binary.
Western society's complete unwillingness to accept androgynes, and its efforts to force them into a binary sex-linked gender with surgery and hormones, is extremely stupid.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 03:51:45 AM
Western society's complete unwillingness to accept androgynes, and its efforts to force them into a binary sex-linked gender with surgery and hormones, is extremely stupid.
THIS.
And yeah, I consider you being you and happy VASTLY more important than your participation in the binary, and I really hope that at some point in the future, at least, our society will create a place for people to live/express their lives in whatever way makes them most fulfilled without pushing body modification as the only real route to personal fulfillment.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 03:54:57 AM
And yeah, I consider you being you and happy VASTLY more important than your participation in the binary, and I really hope that at some point in the future, at least, our society will create a place for people to live/express their lives in whatever way makes them most fulfilled without pushing body modification as the only real route to personal fulfillment.
Shit like that starts at home, I think. Acceptance of saying "FUCK what people say about my/your/his/her/their gender. As long as you are happy, that is what matters."
Just my (extremely uninformed) opinion.
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on May 19, 2012, 03:57:52 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 03:54:57 AM
And yeah, I consider you being you and happy VASTLY more important than your participation in the binary, and I really hope that at some point in the future, at least, our society will create a place for people to live/express their lives in whatever way makes them most fulfilled without pushing body modification as the only real route to personal fulfillment.
Shit like that starts at home, I think. Acceptance of saying "FUCK what people say about my/your/his/her/their gender. As long as you are happy, that is what matters."
Just my (extremely uninformed) opinion.
No, I agree with that, completely, except that getting it to start at home is societally vastly more complicated.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 04:17:06 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on May 19, 2012, 03:57:52 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 03:54:57 AM
And yeah, I consider you being you and happy VASTLY more important than your participation in the binary, and I really hope that at some point in the future, at least, our society will create a place for people to live/express their lives in whatever way makes them most fulfilled without pushing body modification as the only real route to personal fulfillment.
Shit like that starts at home, I think. Acceptance of saying "FUCK what people say about my/your/his/her/their gender. As long as you are happy, that is what matters."
Just my (extremely uninformed) opinion.
No, I agree with that, completely, except that getting it to start at home is societally vastly more complicated.
It's one of those weird "societal pressures will influence home environments which influence society" things.
Quote from: The 3 wolf moon is a harsh SHUTUP on May 19, 2012, 04:19:46 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 04:17:06 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on May 19, 2012, 03:57:52 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 03:54:57 AM
And yeah, I consider you being you and happy VASTLY more important than your participation in the binary, and I really hope that at some point in the future, at least, our society will create a place for people to live/express their lives in whatever way makes them most fulfilled without pushing body modification as the only real route to personal fulfillment.
Shit like that starts at home, I think. Acceptance of saying "FUCK what people say about my/your/his/her/their gender. As long as you are happy, that is what matters."
Just my (extremely uninformed) opinion.
No, I agree with that, completely, except that getting it to start at home is societally vastly more complicated.
It's one of those weird "societal pressures will influence home environments which influence society" things.
Inclined to agree here. Having an accepting and encouraging family is good, but not if the rest of society rails against the family. And having an accepting wider community but not the support of the family is just as bad.
And so on.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 04:17:06 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on May 19, 2012, 03:57:52 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 03:54:57 AM
And yeah, I consider you being you and happy VASTLY more important than your participation in the binary, and I really hope that at some point in the future, at least, our society will create a place for people to live/express their lives in whatever way makes them most fulfilled without pushing body modification as the only real route to personal fulfillment.
Shit like that starts at home, I think. Acceptance of saying "FUCK what people say about my/your/his/her/their gender. As long as you are happy, that is what matters."
Just my (extremely uninformed) opinion.
No, I agree with that, completely, except that getting it to start at home is societally vastly more complicated.
Here's how I see it:
Forward thinking parents raise generation of people who genuinely don't care, or aren't bothered by it. New generation gets all hot and bothered over how big an issue other people make over it, forces government to get the country's shit together. Government forces conventional thinkers to abdicate their position with legislation against automatic procedures at birth and adding androgeny to the material in sixth grade health classes nationwide. It becomes mainstream whatever after fifty years or so.
The end.
Quote from: The 3 wolf moon is a harsh SHUTUP on May 19, 2012, 04:19:46 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 04:17:06 AM
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on May 19, 2012, 03:57:52 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 03:54:57 AM
And yeah, I consider you being you and happy VASTLY more important than your participation in the binary, and I really hope that at some point in the future, at least, our society will create a place for people to live/express their lives in whatever way makes them most fulfilled without pushing body modification as the only real route to personal fulfillment.
Shit like that starts at home, I think. Acceptance of saying "FUCK what people say about my/your/his/her/their gender. As long as you are happy, that is what matters."
Just my (extremely uninformed) opinion.
No, I agree with that, completely, except that getting it to start at home is societally vastly more complicated.
It's one of those weird "societal pressures will influence home environments which influence society" things.
There is a loop, for sure. The loop can be altered, but it takes a lot of internal social pressure to alter it.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 19, 2012, 03:51:45 AM
Western society's complete unwillingness to accept androgynes, and its efforts to force them into a binary sex-linked gender with surgery and hormones, is extremely stupid.
:mittens:
THISThe blessings of Echidna Magna Mater are to be embraced, not shunned.
Quote from: ChloeBelle82 on May 19, 2012, 01:03:50 AM
I am fucking sick of the healthcare system in this country.
"Doctor, doctor! I had no male puberty! I just grew taller and some pubes and small boobs instead!!!"
"Oh okay, w/e. Now about the whole transition thing, no you can't have hormones without a psych assessment, even though you obviously need hormones of SOME SORT because you didn't get puberty."
"Doctor doctor! I get terrible pain in my lower abdomen once a month and what with my body being all different I'm worried there might be something going on!"
"NO YOU CAN'T HAVE ANYTHING GOING ON YOU'RE A BIOLOGICAL MALE DESPITE ALL THE EVIDENCE YOU'RE INTERSEXED AND NO WE WON'T DO TESTS."
I mean where the fuck do these bastards get off on denying me healthcare services I need? If I had money I could just pay to have tests and shit done but since I don't have money it's not going to happen!?
What the fuck is this shit? All they want is for me to take my oestrogen and be a "normal" straight chick.
Well fuck that! I'm a queer intersexed person! I have tits and a cock, and I think that's great!
And if you bastards don't like it you can suck my dick.
Or kill me.
----------------------------------
Another thing I'm fucking sick of?
The mental healthcare system here. I've been having rapid cycling moods for two weeks, and before that I generally was depressed for about three weeks at a time, with a week or so of happy in between. This happy week was mostly filled with being far too happy and becoming irritable and angry a lot. There's also the mixed kinda moods I'm getting lately. These leads me to worry that I have bipolar, and the symptoms are becoming more severe. (My sister has bipolar II, and my Mom doesn't exactly have stable moods either.) Generally I've avoided medication, but since I relapsed on self-harm a few weeks ago, I decided to try again.
So I say to the Doc that I want an assessment first to be sure it's something that's safe to combine with SSRIs or Tricyclic anti-depressants.
They resist at every turn just because I can't fucking pay for it.
They want me to shut the fuck up, take what they give me, and be "normal".
Well get this assholes, I don't want to be "normal" I just want my mood to stop CHANGING ALL THE FUCKING TIME so I can get some fucking work done!
And yet you won't help me do this because I'm broke?
How is this healthcare? If you won't help me take care of myself!?
Well fucking done New Zealand. This insistence that if you can't pay you can just suffer is one of many things that make me want to slit my throat. And the main reason I don't is because I'm going to keep fighting this awful fucking system.
I'm not going to sit down. I'm not going to take the pill. I'm not going to shut up.
I won't stop until you start caring for people who need help.
Or kill me.
Here, we don't get anything we can't pay for, when dealing with things like, you know, cancer or heart disease.
Life's tough. Wear a fucking hat.
Fuckin people with cancer need to get a second job. */america*
Well, as a society we're pretty much completely bought into the doctrine of prosperity, so those who can't afford healthcare deserve to die.
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on May 22, 2012, 04:30:31 PM
Well, as a society we're pretty much completely bought into the doctrine of prosperity, so those who can't afford healthcare deserve to die.
Thing is, I know some people that are in a pretty bad way. No desperately-needed chemo. No desperately-needed dental surgery. No chance in hell of a heart transplant. They're just going to die in really bad ways, way too soon.
So folks will excuse me if I don't get all weepy about the plight of the OP. The world's a fucking tough place, and I think priorities go to people who will die without help, ahead of gender issues, cosmetic issues, or even quality of life issues.
What about quality of life issues that lead to suicide that could be prevented with correct medical care? For example, schizophrenics with no support system who just want a way out?
Presuming of course that correct medical care would actually prevent such a thing.
Quote from: Al "Fuck Legumes" Ty on May 23, 2012, 12:19:48 AM
What about quality of life issues that lead to suicide that could be prevented with correct medical care? For example, schizophrenics with no support system who just want a way out?
Presuming of course that correct medical care would actually prevent such a thing.
That's not a quality of life issue. That's a medical emergency. The
inability to interact with the world is not the same as the lack of desire to do so.
I wasn't ranting for sympathy. I was just venting, basically.
I 'm far, far more pissed at healthcare systems for refusing urgent medical needs than I am for my own situation. And that's why I want to change them. Not just for my own sake, but for sake of people who need these systems to work more than I do.
Quote from: ChloeBelle82 on May 23, 2012, 07:18:17 AM
I wasn't ranting for sympathy. I was just venting, basically.
I 'm far, far more pissed at healthcare systems for refusing urgent medical needs than I am for my own situation. And that's why I want to change them. Not just for my own sake, but for sake of people who need these systems to work more than I do.
What's their track record on cancer treatments?
Well my family had to pay for my mom's chemo and surgery. So I'd say not good.
There's this "high-cost treatment" pool that's meant to be used for that kind of thing, but it's very limited, so only a very few select people get the high-cost treatments without paying.
So still better than many places, but still not good enough.
Quote from: ChloeBelle82 on May 24, 2012, 01:54:46 AM
Well my family had to pay for my mom's chemo and surgery. So I'd say not good.
There's this "high-cost treatment" pool that's meant to be used for that kind of thing, but it's very limited, so only a very few select people get the high-cost treatments without paying.
So still better than many places, but still not good enough.
I'd agree.
Still better than the USA, that's for fucking certain. Unless the system is rigged, and then I think you may actually have it worse.
Well, I can guarantee it's better than here. I envy you for having even the basics covered, so that your biggest concern is getting help for your hormone thing. Half of the things covered by AHCCCS stop being covered when you reach 21 here in Arizona.
I wouldn't necessarily say I have the basics covered. For example flu shots are expensive.
That's the thing about healthcare here, I'm 20 and I can only get certain things for free or cheap, and the selection process for these things is so insanely convoluted that it simply appears random. I mean, I can't get cheaper dental care, even though it's incredibly expensive to have wisdom teeth removed, and as near as I can tell in this crazy mess there is no way whatsoever to get the state's help on things like this. However, a typical NZ tactic is for every region of the country (despite it being tiny) all of the things that are cheaper or free are different. For example up north I couldn't see a doctor or nurse for free. Here in the capital I can see them for free 'til I'm 25. And this as far as I know is the one place where I can do that within the country!
And with all this confusion, the system could quite easily be rigged. Without any standardization of healthcare, there's plenty of opportunity to fuck people over who can't pay for $17,000 back surgery, because the District Health Board can say that's standard, somewhere else.
I'm not trying to claim this is worse than other countries with no coverage at all. But it makes tangling with the health system here a red-tape laden nightmare. This country needs to either give up entirely on pretending it's healthcare is progressive, or do it properly. IMHO.
Flu shots aren't covered here either, but their usually only $25, if you go to a Walmart or a supermarket or pharmacy store. I don't even bother with them ever, nor do I deal with it for my monkey. Meh.
It sounds like about the same as some US state coverage, what you have, only slightly more confusing because sometimes your gov. doesn't say "Don't get sick." :lol:
Well said.
I believe flu shots here are $45 or so. In your money that'd be about the same I think, if the exchange is what it used to be.
My complaint about the shot price is that $45 is more than half of the money I have a week, and I'm pretty average in terms of money for a student here.
The good news about flu shots here is you can usually wrangle a free one if you have asthma, or a similar health concern. So at least the people flu will probably kill get their shot.
And the govt. here only tells you "Don't get sick." if you can't afford to deal with illness, they could at least tell rich bastards that too but nooooooo.
This thread is another reminder that, despite the many, many shitty things about living in the UK, if there is just one thing this inspid, wet piece of rock filled with xenophobic lunatics can take pride in, it's the NHS.
If I get sick, I just...go to a doctor. I don't have to worry about how much it is going to cost me. I know prescriptions are going to cost me about £7.50...unless it's important enough for me to go to hospital, in which case it is going to be free. Many things, from the insanity of our elected leaders to the banks may end up bankrupting me, but the one thing that wont do it is me getting sick.
Our health care system is so fucked up it doesn't even make sense.
Quote from: Cain on May 24, 2012, 12:57:18 PM
This thread is another reminder that, despite the many, many shitty things about living in the UK, if there is just one thing this inspid, wet piece of rock filled with xenophobic lunatics can take pride in, it's the NHS.
If I get sick, I just...go to a doctor. I don't have to worry about how much it is going to cost me. I know prescriptions are going to cost me about £7.50...unless it's important enough for me to go to hospital, in which case it is going to be free. Many things, from the insanity of our elected leaders to the banks may end up bankrupting me, but the one thing that wont do it is me getting sick.
The one reason I would vaguely consider returning to my homeland for.
Then I think of the fact that it sucks and I hate it.
I've never had a flu shot in my life. I don't want one. I hardly ever get flu, and when I do, I get over it. What with all the crap they put in our food, and the drugs the FDA approves that end up in a class action lawsuit because they fucked people up, I'm inclined not to totally dismiss those stories linking flu vaccines with Alzheimer's and assorted other nasty shit nobody wants. I question why they make it so cheap and available, since I know they don't give a fuck about us and would probably be happy to get rid of a lot of people who aren't making money for them - like those elderly people drawing checks that they try to say really NEED a flu shot.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 28, 2012, 09:55:32 PM
I've never had a flu shot in my life. I don't want one. I hardly ever get flu, and when I do, I get over it. What with all the crap they put in our food, and the drugs the FDA approves that end up in a class action lawsuit because they fucked people up, I'm inclined not to totally dismiss those stories linking flu vaccines with Alzheimer's and assorted other nasty shit nobody wants. I question why they make it so cheap and available, since I know they don't give a fuck about us and would probably be happy to get rid of a lot of people who aren't making money for them - like those elderly people drawing checks that they try to say really NEED a flu shot.
Maybe it's just a bias I carry because of my career plans, but despite some pretty shitty rumors about the CDC, from what I can see public health is one of the few areas that is more or less devoid of the corruption and profiteering of other realms of government.
Oh, BTW, Alzheimers is genetic and anti-vaccine people make shit up. It's a bunch of crap. Sometimes a vaccine has to be recalled, and they aren't 100% safe, but even with the risks the cost/benefit ratio is strongly in their favor. Flu used to be one of the #1 contagious killers; now it's not.
That's good to hear...Nigel slices through the bullshit again. :)
How does the CDC manage not to fall into the corruption thing?
Usually, the problems when it comes to things like flu shots are that the scientists who advise the government to buy the vaccines are invested in the company providing them, as has been the case over here before. Of course, that could be a form of endorsement, but it does raise the issue of potentially conflicting interests.
Doesn't mean they don't work, as a rule, I've had flu shots every year since age 7 through to 18 with no noticeable side effects. Probably for the best, too, given the one time I did get the flu, it knocked me on my arse for three weeks. Everyone at school thought I had died, and even to this day I remember virtually nothing about that time period.
Quote from: Anna Mae Bollocks on May 29, 2012, 02:40:19 AM
That's good to hear...Nigel slices through the bullshit again. :)
How does the CDC manage not to fall into the corruption thing?
I think it's largely because conflict of interest in disease control is highly visible and has huge risks, so there's fairly strong systemic pressure to avoid impropriety, as the consequences for widespread public loss of trust in the CDC could be catastrophic.
Their ethics are pretty intense: http://www.cdc.gov/about/ethics/resources/faq/index.htm
Because of how much criticism they get from wingnuts, the CDC is under constant scrutiny and pressure from politicians in other branches who want to appeal to the wingnuts, fringes and fundies who are suspicious of vaccination. That increases the internal pressure to maintain propriety.
Oh, also, contrary to what the anti-vaccination nutjobs would have everyone believe, vaccines are expensive to produce and don't offer much profit, so pharmaceutical companies don't really like making them. It's vastly more profitable to sell drugs that treat diseases than it is to prevent diseases.
http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/24/3/622.full
Contrary to the popular misconception that the CDC is in the pockets of pharmaceutical companies, the CDC is pretty much constantly struggling with pharmaceutical companies. They have directly contrary goals; the CDC's goal is to keep the population healthy, and the pharmaceutical companies' goal is to sell drugs. You can't sell many drugs to healthy people.
This makes sense. :)
The main thing the anti-vaccine people are carrying on about is thimerosal...polio, etc. aren't things you want to roll the dice with, but couldn't they use something else?
Polio is, to my admittedly limited knowledge, nearly gone in the US and other industrialized nations, because of the polio vaccine. Don't fix what ain't broke.
Well yeah, keep the vaccine but find something other than mercury to preserve it with.
It looks like they might be phasing it out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal
Yeah, but only because people freak out about it. If you also notice, there are literally no clinical trials that show it's a danger.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that indicates that it's a danger in any way, and you'll get more mercury from eating a tuna fish sandwich. It has been removed from vaccines for children under age 6 solely due to ignorance-driven public pressure.
I thought I heard mercury OS only harmful when fumes are inhaled or it is ingested.
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on May 29, 2012, 10:59:35 PM
I thought I heard mercury OS only harmful when fumes are inhaled or it is ingested.
Any way it gets into your bloodstream is bad. Those are two ways, and injection is another.
Oh. LEARNING! :)
I guess it was easier than getting it out of the fish. :x