Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Aneristic Illusions => Topic started by: Juana on June 10, 2012, 04:51:44 AM

Title: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Juana on June 10, 2012, 04:51:44 AM
'Cause I doubt the laws are going away anytime soon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hzt1saKsY

FFS. I'm pretty sure this was a flat out murder. The neighbors never got close and at least one of 'em (the visible one, who's the dude who died, I think) had his hands up.
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Luna on June 10, 2012, 05:00:37 AM
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/06/09/another-black-teenager-gunned-down-this-time-in-front-of-his-mother/

No way in hell is this going to fly for "stand your ground," but, marginally related.
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 10, 2012, 07:13:31 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on June 10, 2012, 04:51:44 AM
'Cause I doubt the laws are going away anytime soon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hzt1saKsY

FFS. I'm pretty sure this was a flat out murder. The neighbors never got close and at least one of 'em (the visible one, who's the dude who died, I think) had his hands up.

My impression is that Rodriguez thought that saying the magic words "I fear for my life, I will defend myself" would cover his ass and allow him to get away with shooting people.
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Anna Mae Bollocks on June 10, 2012, 07:25:45 PM
This is all making me wonder how many people are walking around wishing they could legally kill some random person.  :x
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 10, 2012, 07:26:36 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 10, 2012, 07:25:45 PM
This is all making me wonder how many people are walking around wishing they could legally kill some random person.  :x

When my friend took her concealed carry class, she said that basically all the guys in the class wanted to know when they could shoot someone. Seriously.
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Anna Mae Bollocks on June 10, 2012, 07:31:33 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 10, 2012, 07:26:36 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 10, 2012, 07:25:45 PM
This is all making me wonder how many people are walking around wishing they could legally kill some random person.  :x

When my friend took her concealed carry class, she said that basically all the guys in the class wanted to know when they could shoot someone. Seriously.

Note to self: Avoid guys who have done a concealed carry class.  :x :x :x :x :x
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Don Coyote on June 10, 2012, 08:02:32 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 10, 2012, 07:31:33 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 10, 2012, 07:26:36 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 10, 2012, 07:25:45 PM
This is all making me wonder how many people are walking around wishing they could legally kill some random person.  :x

When my friend took her concealed carry class, she said that basically all the guys in the class wanted to know when they could shoot someone. Seriously.

Note to self: Avoid guys who have done a concealed carry class.  :x :x :x :x :x

Note to self: Avoid AMB :lulz:
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Anna Mae Bollocks on June 10, 2012, 08:07:07 PM
Quote from: Guru Quixote on June 10, 2012, 08:02:32 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 10, 2012, 07:31:33 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 10, 2012, 07:26:36 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 10, 2012, 07:25:45 PM
This is all making me wonder how many people are walking around wishing they could legally kill some random person.  :x

When my friend took her concealed carry class, she said that basically all the guys in the class wanted to know when they could shoot someone. Seriously.

Note to self: Avoid guys who have done a concealed carry class.  :x :x :x :x :x

Note to self: Avoid AMB :lulz:

:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Juana on June 10, 2012, 11:33:06 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 10, 2012, 07:13:31 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on June 10, 2012, 04:51:44 AM
'Cause I doubt the laws are going away anytime soon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hzt1saKsY

FFS. I'm pretty sure this was a flat out murder. The neighbors never got close and at least one of 'em (the visible one, who's the dude who died, I think) had his hands up.

My impression is that Rodriguez thought that saying the magic words "I fear for my life, I will defend myself" would cover his ass and allow him to get away with shooting people.
Ditto. Especially since the (visible) dude had his hands up in the air for most of the video (iirc, anyway).
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Bruno on June 11, 2012, 04:25:04 AM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 10, 2012, 07:13:31 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on June 10, 2012, 04:51:44 AM
'Cause I doubt the laws are going away anytime soon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hzt1saKsY

FFS. I'm pretty sure this was a flat out murder. The neighbors never got close and at least one of 'em (the visible one, who's the dude who died, I think) had his hands up.

My impression is that Rodriguez thought that saying the magic words "I fear for my life, I will defend myself" would cover his ass and allow him to get away with shooting people.


It's just like that episode of South Park.

http://lockerz.com/d/6171661
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Luna on June 11, 2012, 10:12:49 AM
Trying to tell what happened at the very end of the video...  It's possible that some of the guys got sick of having a gun waved in their faces and tackled the idiot.  He may argue that, because they lay hands on him, first, he was defending himself... nevermind that THEY were defending themselves from a gun-wielding moron.
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 11, 2012, 03:40:36 PM
The whole interpretation of the "stand your ground" law as meaning that you can accost someone with a gun and if they try to protect themselves, or even simply fail to flee, you have a right to shoot them without consequences, really really needs to be addressed. Whatever they're teaching in their gun licensing classes is clearly very flawed.

If you leave your property with a gun and approach someone with it, it seems pretty cut and dried that they are reasonable in feeling threatened and in responding as such. if you then use that gun on them, it's not self-defense. If I pull a knife on you, will you feel threatened? If I then stab you, is it self-defense, when I'm the one who initiated the threat of violence? Certainly not. How these people think it could be is beyond me.
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Anna Mae Bollocks on June 11, 2012, 07:10:05 PM
You can shoot cops in Indiana now. Why not just not have unlawful intrusion in the first fucking place?
http://rt.com/usa/news/indiana-shooting-law-state-591/
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Luna on June 11, 2012, 07:39:16 PM
Totally agreed, Nigel.

My mom lives in Indiana.  I had her boyfriend attempt to defend that law to me.  Points for keeping my temper.
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on June 11, 2012, 07:42:35 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 11, 2012, 03:40:36 PM
The whole interpretation of the "stand your ground" law as meaning that you can accost someone with a gun and if they try to protect themselves, or even simply fail to flee, you have a right to shoot them without consequences, really really needs to be addressed. Whatever they're teaching in their gun licensing classes is clearly very flawed.

If you leave your property with a gun and approach someone with it, it seems pretty cut and dried that they are reasonable in feeling threatened and in responding as such. if you then use that gun on them, it's not self-defense. If I pull a knife on you, will you feel threatened? If I then stab you, is it self-defense, when I'm the one who initiated the threat of violence? Certainly not. How these people think it could be is beyond me.

I can't see the video from this comp, but my impression of the "stand your ground" laws is that it's okay to shoot Brown people.  Brown people may NOT use that law, because there are endangerment laws that contradict the stand your ground law, and THOSE will be employed.

So:

Black woman with a gun:  Endangerment.

White man with a gun:  Stand Your Ground.

Brown man shoots brown man:  Who had more money?
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: trippinprincezz13 on June 11, 2012, 08:34:10 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 11, 2012, 07:10:05 PM
You can shoot cops in Indiana now. Why not just not have unlawful intrusion in the first fucking place?
http://rt.com/usa/news/indiana-shooting-law-state-591/

Uhhhh, well that's pretty fucked, now isn't it.

Cop's at my door...."Unlawful intrusion! Unlawful intrusion!" Then in the end it doesn't matter if it was lawful or not, guy's dead and there you go. Not that the police should be intruding all over the place, but there's a pretty big gap between "life-threatening danger/self-defense" and "unlawful intrusion"
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Anna Mae Bollocks on June 11, 2012, 08:42:10 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on June 11, 2012, 08:34:10 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 11, 2012, 07:10:05 PM
You can shoot cops in Indiana now. Why not just not have unlawful intrusion in the first fucking place?
http://rt.com/usa/news/indiana-shooting-law-state-591/

Uhhhh, well that's pretty fucked, now isn't it.

Cop's at my door...."Unlawful intrusion! Unlawful intrusion!" Then in the end it doesn't matter if it was lawful or not, guy's dead and there you go. Not that the police should be intruding all over the place, but there's a pretty big gap between "life-threatening danger/self-defense" and "unlawful intrusion"

"I wasn't doing anything wrong. They couldn't have had a warrant or probable cause."

"They don't need it."

"OSHI-"
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 13, 2012, 08:43:02 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 11, 2012, 07:42:35 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 11, 2012, 03:40:36 PM
The whole interpretation of the "stand your ground" law as meaning that you can accost someone with a gun and if they try to protect themselves, or even simply fail to flee, you have a right to shoot them without consequences, really really needs to be addressed. Whatever they're teaching in their gun licensing classes is clearly very flawed.

If you leave your property with a gun and approach someone with it, it seems pretty cut and dried that they are reasonable in feeling threatened and in responding as such. if you then use that gun on them, it's not self-defense. If I pull a knife on you, will you feel threatened? If I then stab you, is it self-defense, when I'm the one who initiated the threat of violence? Certainly not. How these people think it could be is beyond me.

I can't see the video from this comp, but my impression of the "stand your ground" laws is that it's okay to shoot Brown people.  Brown people may NOT use that law, because there are endangerment laws that contradict the stand your ground law, and THOSE will be employed.

So:

Black woman with a gun:  Endangerment.

White man with a gun:  Stand Your Ground.

Brown man shoots brown man:  Who had more money?

You seem to have a pretty firm understanding.
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 13, 2012, 08:44:01 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 11, 2012, 07:10:05 PM
You can shoot cops in Indiana now. Why not just not have unlawful intrusion in the first fucking place?
http://rt.com/usa/news/indiana-shooting-law-state-591/

Oh, look at that. Backlash against the police state.

Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Anna Mae Bollocks on June 13, 2012, 09:23:09 PM
Quote from: PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHARLIE MANSON on June 13, 2012, 08:44:01 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 11, 2012, 07:10:05 PM
You can shoot cops in Indiana now. Why not just not have unlawful intrusion in the first fucking place?
http://rt.com/usa/news/indiana-shooting-law-state-591/

Oh, look at that. Backlash against the police state.

Of course.
Surprising when it gets legislated though.
Title: Re: Unlimited "Stand Your Ground" Thread!
Post by: Juana on June 16, 2012, 11:26:32 PM
From Gawker: Man Who Used 'Stand Your Ground' Law to Defend Shooting Neighbor Over Loud Music Found Guilty of Murder (http://gawker.com/5918397/man-who-used-stand-your-ground-law-to-defend-shooting-neighbor-over-loud-music-found-guilty-of-murder)
QuoteA Texas jury rejected a retired firefighter's claim that the state's stand-your-ground law gave him the right to shoot and kill an unarmed neighbor for allegedly playing loud music during a party.

Raul Rodriguez's defense attorney argued that his client is protected by the so-called Castle Doctrine because the altercation that resulted in the shooting death of 36-year-old elementary school teacher Kelly Danaher took place in the street.

"He had a right to be (in) the street," said Neal Davis. "He was not provoking anybody. He was not engaged in any criminal activity. The (stand-your-ground) law is not only for home invasions. That's why the law was changed."

Indeed, the Texas version of the controversial law allows for the use of deadly force in self-defense outside the home, but cannot be used as a shield if the person using force provoked the attack.

Prosecutors Kelli Johnson and Donna Logan maintained that Rodriguez was the aggressor when he armed himself with a gun and a camera and headed over to Danaher's home to complain about the noise.

In the footage he recorded, Rodriguez is heard telling a police dispatcher his life was in danger, but Johnson said it was Rodriguez who "lured" Danaher and two others onto the street "and threatened them by brandishing his gun."

"Raul Rodriguez is a neighborhood bully who had a CHL, an arsenal of weapons and a knowledge of the law," said Logan. "He felt he had the ultimate control, the control to decide who lives and who dies."

The jury sided with the prosecutors and voted to convict Rodriguez of murder. Sentencing will take place following additional testimony.

Houston criminal defense attorney Grant Scheiner said the Castle Doctrine might be clarified as a result of this trial — particularly "what it means to provoke someone" — but no major changes to the law should be expected.