"Air pollution". :x
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/17/giant-mushroom-cloud-beijing_n_1603780.html
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 18, 2012, 01:07:43 AM
"Air pollution". :x
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/17/giant-mushroom-cloud-beijing_n_1603780.html
Did North Korea miss or something?
Not sure what happened, everybody's being all full of shit as expected.
Where's Cain?
Quote from: Twiddlegeddon on June 18, 2012, 03:29:39 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 18, 2012, 01:07:43 AM
"Air pollution". :x
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/17/giant-mushroom-cloud-beijing_n_1603780.html
Did North Korea miss or something?
If it indeed it was a nuke, it woulda been a flash, not a sustained shine (which in this case is caused by the sun being behind the clouds).
From what ive seen in my experience, garbage gives out a way darker cloud, as do gasoline or petroleum... other than those, it could be a lot of different things.
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on June 18, 2012, 06:16:54 AM
Quote from: Twiddlegeddon on June 18, 2012, 03:29:39 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 18, 2012, 01:07:43 AM
"Air pollution". :x
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/17/giant-mushroom-cloud-beijing_n_1603780.html
Did North Korea miss or something?
If it indeed it was a nuke, it woulda been a flash, not a sustained shine (which in this case is caused by the sun being behind the clouds).
From what ive seen in my experience, garbage gives out a way darker cloud, as do gasoline or petroleum... other than those, it could be a lot of different things.
That was more of a quip. North Korea would end up nuking itself if it tried to launch anything. :lulz:
Um maybe the article wasn't yet updated when these replies were posted, but it's a really huge cumulonimbus + air pollution.
What kind of pollution, though? Burning straw doesn't do that.
http://www.webpronews.com/beijing-mushroom-cloud-leaves-residents-concerned-2012-06
Magenta/orange clouds at sunset are normal but that bright yellow is fucked.
What do you mean, burning straw?
It's Beijing. Look it up, big-ass cities in Asia got impressive amounts of air pollution. Very serious fucking problem, asthma rates are through the roofs over there.
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 18, 2012, 08:45:43 PM
What do you mean, burning straw?
It's Beijing. Look it up, big-ass cities in Asia got impressive amounts of air pollution. Very serious fucking problem, asthma rates are through the roofs over there.
Burning straw is what Beijing officials are blaming it on. The people saying it was consistent with a chlorine leak were arrested.
When I was visiting Beijing I hardly went out at all because the smog was so incredibly thick. I have asthma and allergies, and I was not interested in seeing what a trip to their emergency room would be like. However, they get a fair amount of wind which clears it all away quite effectively for a short time.
It's a chlorine leak, then.
Any reason why specifically chlorine?
While I also don't quite buy the "straw burning" excuse, it's not like they wouldn't arrest people for spreading false anti-government rumours, either.
Checking the link that mentions people getting detained for spreading rumours (http://www.eeo.com.cn/ens/2012/0612/228106.shtml) says "two internet users had been detained for spreading rumors that claimed that yesterday's pollution had been caused by a chlorine leak at a chemical plant or an explosion at a steel refinery."
Additionally "the bureau also emphasised that the poor atmospheric conditions were not caused by any kind of industrial accident or a dust storm from Northern China."
So that's already three different things their government is denying.
Is there any reason why you consider the chlorine story most likely?
It could even turn out to be something entirely different, still, right?
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 18, 2012, 09:37:31 PM
Any reason why specifically chlorine?
While I also don't quite buy the "straw burning" excuse, it's not like they wouldn't arrest people for spreading false anti-government rumours, either.
Checking the link that mentions people getting detained for spreading rumours (http://www.eeo.com.cn/ens/2012/0612/228106.shtml) says "two internet users had been detained for spreading rumors that claimed that yesterday's pollution had been caused by a chlorine leak at a chemical plant or an explosion at a steel refinery."
Additionally "the bureau also emphasised that the poor atmospheric conditions were not caused by any kind of industrial accident or a dust storm from Northern China."
So that's already three different things their government is denying.
Is there any reason why you consider the chlorine story most likely?
It could even turn out to be something entirely different, still, right?
If the government arrests you for saying something, it's probably true.
Quote from: v3x on June 18, 2012, 09:43:56 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 18, 2012, 09:37:31 PM
Any reason why specifically chlorine?
While I also don't quite buy the "straw burning" excuse, it's not like they wouldn't arrest people for spreading false anti-government rumours, either.
Checking the link that mentions people getting detained for spreading rumours (http://www.eeo.com.cn/ens/2012/0612/228106.shtml) says "two internet users had been detained for spreading rumors that claimed that yesterday's pollution had been caused by a chlorine leak at a chemical plant or an explosion at a steel refinery."
Additionally "the bureau also emphasised that the poor atmospheric conditions were not caused by any kind of industrial accident or a dust storm from Northern China."
So that's already three different things their government is denying.
Is there any reason why you consider the chlorine story most likely?
It could even turn out to be something entirely different, still, right?
If the government arrests you for saying something, it's probably true.
According to that logic, the Holocaust probably didn't happen, and the Armenian genocide is a pernicious rumour spread to undermine the glorious Turkish Republic.
And many many poor businessman who have the cure to cancer, male baldness and infertility have been unjustly put in prison, too.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 18, 2012, 03:40:45 AM
Not sure what happened, everybody's being all full of shit as expected.
Where's Cain?
Mostly avoiding this place so I don't have to waste my time researching spurious internet rumours.
Quote from: Cain on June 18, 2012, 10:13:10 PM
Quote from: v3x on June 18, 2012, 09:43:56 PM
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 18, 2012, 09:37:31 PM
Any reason why specifically chlorine?
While I also don't quite buy the "straw burning" excuse, it's not like they wouldn't arrest people for spreading false anti-government rumours, either.
Checking the link that mentions people getting detained for spreading rumours (http://www.eeo.com.cn/ens/2012/0612/228106.shtml) says "two internet users had been detained for spreading rumors that claimed that yesterday's pollution had been caused by a chlorine leak at a chemical plant or an explosion at a steel refinery."
Additionally "the bureau also emphasised that the poor atmospheric conditions were not caused by any kind of industrial accident or a dust storm from Northern China."
So that's already three different things their government is denying.
Is there any reason why you consider the chlorine story most likely?
It could even turn out to be something entirely different, still, right?
If the government arrests you for saying something, it's probably true.
According to that logic, the Holocaust probably didn't happen, and the Armenian genocide is a pernicious rumour spread to undermine the glorious Turkish Republic.
And many many poor businessman who have the cure to cancer, male baldness and infertility have been unjustly put in prison, too.
Sorry, I'll rephrase:
QuoteIf the Chinese government arrests you for saying something, it's probably true.
Because China is evil, and anything that makes them look bad is therefore true and good.
(I'm pretending the last 12 years never happened and it's still permissible (if naive) to see the world like GW Bush.)
Watching the videos a bit more carefully:
Video One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVIzyUBJeQ8) (from the HuffPost article)
Video Two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ykDq7VbMEQ) (from the WebProNews article)
** Given all the lightning flashes (esp. Video Two), and the fact that it really
does look a lot like a gigantic cumulonimbus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulonimbus_cloud), it seems very likely that a real, natural cumulonimbus cloud (albeit a freakishly large one) is at least
partially responsible for the phenomenon. "Cumulonimbus is a towering vertical cloud that is very tall, dense, and involved in thunderstorms", its shape is often likened to an anvil, and check this pic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cumulonimbus_NOAA_gov.jpg) to see how much it can resemble a mushroom cloud. Oooh and also this one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cumulonimbus-incus_mykonos.jpg).
** The bright fiery colours seem to be just sunrise/sunset colours, and not actual fire or explosions or strange chemicals. If the colours look strange to you, that is probably because:
1) Cameras (and phones in particular) are not very good at catching true sunrise/sunset colours as seen by the eye. The bright yellow that you mention, were you talking about Video One? Because that one clearly shows all sorts of phone artifacts, including overexposed colours.
2) More about the bright yellow. Video Two is a slightly better (but probably still phone) camera. Here you can see that a cumulonimbus is a very
vertical cloud formation: the background sky is already blue, but the cloud is still lit by the golden light of sunrise, creating a very peculiar contrast-rich "on fire" effect. I've seen that IRL, very pretty. Haze around it is what I'd expect of a heavily polluted smog city. In video One, it seems like they're filming the flat underside of the anvil cloud. If the top of it is brightly lit up like that, I can imagine from below you'd see a very odd orange/yellow glow shining through from above.
3) sunrise/sunsets have different appearances all over the world, image search "Thailand sunset/sunrise" for some really spectacular colours (they really do look like that, I know from a friend who lives there, it's not just rare magic opportunities captured by a pro photographer for postcards), they also look different where I live, than they do in Austria, or what I saw in the US. Do any of the reports mention from which direction the cloud approached? (Beijing has mountains on the N and NW sides, and plains on the rest)
4) As Net and I said, there already is insane air pollution. This also re-colours sunset/sunrises, though (from what I've seen) usually towards the red/orange end of the spectrum.
I really can't see any other cause for those intense bright colours than reflected sunlight. If it was actual fire, people would be dead by now. Fluorescent chemicals powerful enough to glow like that
during day time don't end up in the sky in those amounts, and if they did, people would be dead by now.
* Wikipedia says they use a lot of cloud seeding in the Beijing area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud-seeding#Asia). Maybe something like that could create freakishly huge cumulonimbus clouds?
* I still don't get the chlorine angle. Did you see how
huge that cloud was? That much chlorine, people would be dead. Amount of smoke I would
expect from a big industrial accident (we've had some, in NL), even a really big one, would get dwarfed by the size of that cloud, plus it wouldn't be cumulonimbus-shaped, because even if the air currents required for a Cb-shape would happen to be around, I don't think it could flow into the shape from the ground up cause there's a lot of separated warm and cold air that aren't mixing.
* Oh and finally I see HuffPo updated their article
again :
CORRECTION: A previous version of this story linked the mushroom-like cumulonimbus storm cloud to the pollution haze experienced in China earlier in the week. In fact, these two incidents were separate and unrelated. The article has been updated to reflect this correction. -- so apparently, the pollution haze and the mushroom cloud were not even on the same day ... I kind of already wondered about that, since all the "mushroom cloud" vids show bright and huge cloud shapes, while the "government denying it was chlorine" images show a yellow-brown-gray hazy mist.
Well at least I got to see some pics of amazing clouds :)
Wired had this huge impressive image http://i.imgur.com/4AGph.jpg (linked for hugeness)
Quote from: v3x on June 18, 2012, 09:43:56 PM
If the government arrests you for saying something, it's probably true.
Well, that seems to pose a paradox ... either the crowded theatre was on fire or it wasn't!!
Quote from: Cain on June 18, 2012, 10:15:28 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 18, 2012, 03:40:45 AM
Not sure what happened, everybody's being all full of shit as expected.
Where's Cain?
Mostly avoiding this place so I don't have to waste my time researching spurious internet rumours.
I did it for you :)
TLDR: There was a very pretty huge Cumulonimbus Incus over Beijing. There also was a pollution haze over Beijing, cause unclear (
hazy, if you like). They happened on different days. Huffington Post confused the two. Triple Zero learned some things about clouds and the geography of Beijing today. The end.
Check the picture links in my post though, they're pretty.
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 18, 2012, 09:37:31 PM
Any reason why specifically chlorine?
While I also don't quite buy the "straw burning" excuse, it's not like they wouldn't arrest people for spreading false anti-government rumours, either.
Checking the link that mentions people getting detained for spreading rumours (http://www.eeo.com.cn/ens/2012/0612/228106.shtml) says "two internet users had been detained for spreading rumors that claimed that yesterday's pollution had been caused by a chlorine leak at a chemical plant or an explosion at a steel refinery."
Additionally "the bureau also emphasised that the poor atmospheric conditions were not caused by any kind of industrial accident or a dust storm from Northern China."
So that's already three different things their government is denying.
Is there any reason why you consider the chlorine story most likely?
It could even turn out to be something entirely different, still, right?
Point taken. "IDK WTF that is but since I know a few things it's not and chlorine's been mentioned a lot" =/= chlorine.
YELLOW, though? Is Bejing pollution that much weirder than pollution in Houston, NYC or LA?
Quote from: Cain on June 18, 2012, 10:15:28 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 18, 2012, 03:40:45 AM
Not sure what happened, everybody's being all full of shit as expected.
Where's Cain?
Mostly avoiding this place so I don't have to waste my time researching spurious internet rumours.
It's probably safe to infer from this that it's not ANY kind of bomb. :lol:
Got what I needed, I think. Thanks.
Quote from: Triple Zero on June 18, 2012, 11:01:02 PM
Watching the videos a bit more carefully:
Video One (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVIzyUBJeQ8) (from the HuffPost article)
Video Two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ykDq7VbMEQ) (from the WebProNews article)
** Given all the lightning flashes (esp. Video Two), and the fact that it really does look a lot like a gigantic cumulonimbus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulonimbus_cloud), it seems very likely that a real, natural cumulonimbus cloud (albeit a freakishly large one) is at least partially responsible for the phenomenon. "Cumulonimbus is a towering vertical cloud that is very tall, dense, and involved in thunderstorms", its shape is often likened to an anvil, and check this pic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cumulonimbus_NOAA_gov.jpg) to see how much it can resemble a mushroom cloud. Oooh and also this one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cumulonimbus-incus_mykonos.jpg).
** The bright fiery colours seem to be just sunrise/sunset colours, and not actual fire or explosions or strange chemicals. If the colours look strange to you, that is probably because:
1) Cameras (and phones in particular) are not very good at catching true sunrise/sunset colours as seen by the eye. The bright yellow that you mention, were you talking about Video One? Because that one clearly shows all sorts of phone artifacts, including overexposed colours.
2) More about the bright yellow. Video Two is a slightly better (but probably still phone) camera. Here you can see that a cumulonimbus is a very vertical cloud formation: the background sky is already blue, but the cloud is still lit by the golden light of sunrise, creating a very peculiar contrast-rich "on fire" effect. I've seen that IRL, very pretty. Haze around it is what I'd expect of a heavily polluted smog city. In video One, it seems like they're filming the flat underside of the anvil cloud. If the top of it is brightly lit up like that, I can imagine from below you'd see a very odd orange/yellow glow shining through from above.
3) sunrise/sunsets have different appearances all over the world, image search "Thailand sunset/sunrise" for some really spectacular colours (they really do look like that, I know from a friend who lives there, it's not just rare magic opportunities captured by a pro photographer for postcards), they also look different where I live, than they do in Austria, or what I saw in the US. Do any of the reports mention from which direction the cloud approached? (Beijing has mountains on the N and NW sides, and plains on the rest)
4) As Net and I said, there already is insane air pollution. This also re-colours sunset/sunrises, though (from what I've seen) usually towards the red/orange end of the spectrum.
I really can't see any other cause for those intense bright colours than reflected sunlight. If it was actual fire, people would be dead by now. Fluorescent chemicals powerful enough to glow like that during day time don't end up in the sky in those amounts, and if they did, people would be dead by now.
* Wikipedia says they use a lot of cloud seeding in the Beijing area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud-seeding#Asia). Maybe something like that could create freakishly huge cumulonimbus clouds?
* I still don't get the chlorine angle. Did you see how huge that cloud was? That much chlorine, people would be dead. Amount of smoke I would expect from a big industrial accident (we've had some, in NL), even a really big one, would get dwarfed by the size of that cloud, plus it wouldn't be cumulonimbus-shaped, because even if the air currents required for a Cb-shape would happen to be around, I don't think it could flow into the shape from the ground up cause there's a lot of separated warm and cold air that aren't mixing.
* Oh and finally I see HuffPo updated their article again : CORRECTION: A previous version of this story linked the mushroom-like cumulonimbus storm cloud to the pollution haze experienced in China earlier in the week. In fact, these two incidents were separate and unrelated. The article has been updated to reflect this correction. -- so apparently, the pollution haze and the mushroom cloud were not even on the same day ... I kind of already wondered about that, since all the "mushroom cloud" vids show bright and huge cloud shapes, while the "government denying it was chlorine" images show a yellow-brown-gray hazy mist.
Well at least I got to see some pics of amazing clouds :)
Wired had this huge impressive image http://i.imgur.com/4AGph.jpg (linked for hugeness)
Crappy cell phone is probably the best explanation for the loud yellow. And some of the Thailand images are completely yellow-orange...always assumed things like that were filters. Thanks.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 19, 2012, 03:24:17 AM
YELLOW, though? Is Bejing pollution that much weirder than pollution in Houston, NYC or LA?
The more I think about it, the more I am sure the air pollution might not have been much of a contributing to the whole mushroom cloud event.
Rather it's the shape of a cumulonimbus. Because it's so tall and high, the upper anvil part can still be lit by fiery golden sunrise light, while for a ground observer the morning sky has already turned to its regular blue/white. Imagine like because it's so tall, it can "see" the sunrise farther away, so it lasts longer at the top of a cloud. Just like you can sometimes see all sorts of insanely bright golden "sunrise-like" colours in the cloud when you're in a plane and break above the clouds.
I'd almost think, if there had been less air pollution, the effect might have been even more pronounced. Though I could be mistaken about that.
To answer your question, Beijing air pollution is maybe not weirder, but definitely an order of magnitude
worse than NYC pollution. I've never been in Beijing, but I was in NYC and it was shitty and dirty but not so bad ... until you get out and notice how deliciously
fresh the air is in, say, Tarrytown, after a week of NYC.
Have you ever seen photos of the sun poking through ash-filled skies from volcano smoke? Image search it, it can be quite spectacular. Not the lava, just all the dust and ashes in the sky. It makes the sun turn a weird yellow orange red, just like a sunset. Pollution can do the same. All about particles in the air absorbing shorter (blue) wavelengths more than longer ones (red). Except, and that is why I don't think the Beijing event had much to do with pollution, it's not very bright. The colours are all weird, but you see them through a dirty dusty haze.
QuoteCrappy cell phone is probably the best explanation for the loud yellow. And some of the Thailand images are completely yellow-orange...always assumed things like that were filters. Thanks.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but do I remember right that you live in one of these central USA "flyover states"? Meaning that the sea is really, really far away, always, because of all this land around you? Because while I agree those Thailand images are quite extreme, spend some evenings and mornings near a beach anywhere, and sooner or later conditions are right and you'll witness a sunset or sunrise that really makes it look like the sky is on fucking fire. Usually only lasts 5-10 minutes though, after that it reverts to a more natural gorgeous sunset state.
Makes me agoraphobic just to think about it btw. I'm never really a particularly big fan of the beach and the sea--I can easily spend a week on a small island without getting within 1000ft of the beach or sea--I don't actually need to go there and stick my nose in the decomposing seaweed and beach fleas, but it's just nice to know it's right there, if I'd
want to go check it out and get sand in my shoes and dirty salty sheen on my skin and in my hair, which I don't. Fortunately the sunsets are nearly as impressive from a distance.
Yellows and golds are common colors for us down here, too.
But you live in a desert. For all I know your sky might actually be on fire.
Well there is this one myth about the sun wanting to keep Tucson as far away from it as possible, so every time it begins its pass over The City it sets the sky on fire to keep Tucson down here and not up there.
I'm in Texas, Trip. We have beaches...not really the ocean but the Gulf of Mexico. It's a couple of hundred miles from me and you can't go into the water or eat the seafood anymore without worrying about getting some debilitating disease from the corexit, but it's there. I know what you mean, for some irrational reason I don't like being landlocked either.
Never saw neon yellow in a cloud before, though.