WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING?
There's been some serious backsliding in this here church. Once the haven of those who could laugh at adversity until their sphincters popped, the home of a breed of mutant that wore NO MAN'S UNIFORM, there seems to be a little bit of the old Grey creeping in. People are running around with causes.
And we all know that there is only one "cause", and that is Chaos, in all her forms and glories.
Of course, people will deny their uniforms, even as they straighten their collars and brush lint off of their epaulets. "This is just one side of me", they say, "There's lots more, but I don't choose to express the rest at this time". And so they click their heels and smack their heads on the backdrop in an effort to march off into the glorious sunset.
Fact: Once you've put on a uniform, you tend to filter everything through it. You become what you espouse...A two-dimensional being that sees only the things that their uniforms allow them to see. Then they fuck off to Facebook or whatever, because they can't get Discordians to stay interested in that topic forever. And may Eris have mercy on what's left of their souls.
Are you ONLY a scientist? Are you ONLY a professional in your field? Are you ONLY a student or a home maker or an artist? Have you BECOME that uniform? "Of course not", you say, "It's just what interests me." But if your interests have narrowed to ONE THING, then WHAT THE HELL IS THE DIFFERENCE? You have indeed become that uniform. In fact, it's really hard to see you, because the uniform pretty much covers you up entirely. One day, there'll be nothing BUT uniform.
Fanaticism on ANY topic is the hallmark of The Pink. Among myriad other sins, it is boring. It's not funny, and believe me when I tell you, your sense of humor may be the only surivival trait you have left. The Machine™ can - and will - take everything else, but it can't touch your sense of gallows humor unless YOU LET IT.
I can't MAKE anyone see the light, here. I doubt I can even convince anyone...The uniform has its own defense mechanisms, and the biggest weapons in its arsenal are DENIAL and BUTTHURT. It whispers to you, it tells you that if you take off the uniform, you will have BACKED DOWN, and this may make you LOOK WEAK, and that may adversely affect your standing in "the tribe", whatever you may conceive that to be.
Right-thinking Discordians know, of course, that the strongest person is one who can change his or her mind, one who isn't afraid of changing course, who can ADMIT when they've strayed from the path...And who doesn't have some sort of phobia about looking "silly". You look silly all the time. Taking a dump looks silly. You look silly when you sleep. But you look silliest of all when you try to never look silly. That's pomposity, and there's nothing sillier on Earth.
That uniform won't save you from the coming Weird Times™. I doubt much of anything can...But there's no sense getting all SERIOUS about things you can't do anything about. Laugh a little. No, scream your laughter until your vocal chords come out...BRAY SPITTLE AND LAUGHTER IN THEIR UNCOMPREHENDING FACES UNTIL THEY FINALLY BRING YOU DOWN.
Beats the fuck out of ulcers. And it beats the fuck out of pretending you're something you're not. In short, it beats being Pink.
Or Kill Me.
To this I say HOORAH except the part about being a student. A proper student wants to know everything about everything until bad wiring and information overload leaves them lying on the floor, twitching painfully and with a glazed look in the eye.
Once that information has been processes, havoc can be caused in a fashion that can be like unto a scalpel. The hammer is good for some but not all occasions.
Quote from: The Freeky of SCIENCE! on June 20, 2012, 08:42:55 PM
To this I say HOORAH except the part about being a student. A proper student wants to know everything about everything until bad wiring and information overload leaves them lying on the floor, twitching painfully and with a glazed look in the eye.
There's nothing wrong with being a student. If you don't learn, you can't deal with the world around you, especially in the high tech world we live in today. The danger is becoming A Student, and allowing that to describe you entirely.
Richard Feynman wrote about this, in that he was at first upset when he was told he had to take courses that had nothing to do with his major...And then he learned two things: Most of them DID relate to his major in one way or another (if nothing else, they taught him how to think in new ways), and that THERE IS LIFE OUTSIDE OF YOUR MAJOR. Or, indeed, outside of your education.
Touchee. A Student is different from a student.
The last director of this agency was A Student, which made him a pretty horrible Director and boss. Way too cerebral and didn't know how to drill down and just bring some Rock and Roll to the party.
Quote from: The Bad Reverend What's-His-Name! on June 20, 2012, 08:50:04 PM
The last director of this agency was A Student, which made him a pretty horrible Director and boss. Way too cerebral and didn't know how to drill down and just bring some Rock and Roll to the party.
Thing is, it's damned easy to put a uniform on. I have to constantly remind myself at the end of the workday that I am not The Plant. I am a father, but not JUST a father. I am a husband, but not JUST a husband. I am a loudmouth preacherman, but not JUST a loudmouth preacherman.
*weeds through closet looking for signs that stuff I like might be morphing into a uniform*
Thanks!
Discordianism is yet another uniform. Where are YOUR multiple sides, Mr Reverend?
Or, to put it another way, when I first saw this rant I laughed. Then I went picking radishes. This time of year, they're getting big and prickly, and most of them are woody, some of the rest are rotten. A few of them are huge and beautiful.
So I went out and picked radishes, and cursed the spines, and scratched all over my hands and arms from them. I went and found the biggest, woodiest radish, because I knew it was going to be the most spicy bitter one. And I /ate it/. Right there, Reverend, I ate the hell out of that radish, and it was exactly as spicy and bitter as I thought it was going to be. Damn near broke my teeth on it.
That's all I got.
Radishes sound good. :)
I went to the store for a bottle of wine. Then I made a profile pic for my facebook. :kingmeh:
There's not much to discuss here because I completely agree. Mittens, awesome post, vindaloo-salute, etc.
For the sake of conversation, I'm going to wear the asshat uniform.
Quote
Fact: Once you've put on a uniform, you tend to filter everything through it. You become what you espouse...A two-dimensional being that sees only the things that their uniforms allow them to see.
If uniforms can be equated with identity politics or reality tunnels or Butt Iron Prisons, then what is the alternative? Nakedness? What would that mean?
We can't escape our Butt Iron Prisons, that is to say, we have to limit our perception in some way, we have to come at things from an angle, or to use the uniform idea—we can't escape cultural roles. There is no, "nakedness" then, if I'm understanding the metaphor correctly. Then the best we can do is be able to change our uniforms at will, and wear whatever uniform that best enables us to do what we want.
Or :?
I think there is nakedness, but the uniforms appear once you have to navigate any kind of culture or society. It's possible to, say, sit in nakedness out in the hills without having to pretend to be anything. It's also possible to be naked in the mind, while uniformed in behavior.
For OP, mittens. I wonder, have you ever seen someone be fanatical about laughter?
It's happening, Reverend. I'm feeling myself crumble away. I feel more and more robotic by the day, and soon I fear that I'll be nothing more than an appliance of The Company. And what's more, it seems to be confined to me. My coworkers chat and laugh and poke fun at each other, and all I ever do is scrub the dishes. I scrub with silent urgency. I scrub with rage, with intensity, but still I only scrub. I scare them, Reverend. I scare my coworkers, and I don't know why. I'll think I'm just wearing my default expression, but when I get a look at myself in a thinned-out pan I see a mask of fury.
Quote from: Epimetheus on June 20, 2012, 09:52:13 PM
I think there is nakedness, but the uniforms appear once you have to navigate any kind of culture or society. It's possible to, say, sit in nakedness out in the hills without having to pretend to be anything. It's also possible to be naked in the mind, while uniformed in behavior.
For OP, mittens. I wonder, have you ever seen someone be fanatical about laughter?
You're still describing roles that are culturally mediated:
• fucking hippie
• I'm a Dreamer, man
• "enlightened" bhodisattva AKA Auto-erotic Flatus Inhaler
• Authentic™ but only in isolation, see
• Mind Nudist Uniform Wearer
Fuckin' A. Preach it, Brother Roger.
Quote from: Net on June 20, 2012, 10:30:03 PM
Quote from: Epimetheus on June 20, 2012, 09:52:13 PM
I think there is nakedness, but the uniforms appear once you have to navigate any kind of culture or society. It's possible to, say, sit in nakedness out in the hills without having to pretend to be anything. It's also possible to be naked in the mind, while uniformed in behavior.
For OP, mittens. I wonder, have you ever seen someone be fanatical about laughter?
You're still describing roles that are culturally mediated:
• fucking hippie
• I'm a Dreamer, man
• "enlightened" bhodisattva AKA Auto-erotic Flatus Inhaler
• Authentic™ but only in isolation, see
• Mind Nudist Uniform Wearer
No, I'm not. Where did I say any of those things?
If you describe nakedness to the culture, it will start to take those roles depending on who hears it or how you describe it.
Doesn't mean you can't get nekkid.
Quote from: Epimetheus on June 20, 2012, 10:37:53 PM
Quote from: Net on June 20, 2012, 10:30:03 PM
Quote from: Epimetheus on June 20, 2012, 09:52:13 PM
I think there is nakedness, but the uniforms appear once you have to navigate any kind of culture or society. It's possible to, say, sit in nakedness out in the hills without having to pretend to be anything. It's also possible to be naked in the mind, while uniformed in behavior.
For OP, mittens. I wonder, have you ever seen someone be fanatical about laughter?
You're still describing roles that are culturally mediated:
• fucking hippie
• I'm a Dreamer, man
• "enlightened" bhodisattva AKA Auto-erotic Flatus Inhaler
• Authentic™ but only in isolation, see
• Mind Nudist Uniform Wearer
No, I'm not. Where did I say any of those things?
If you describe nakedness to the culture, it will start to take those roles depending on who hears it or how you describe it.
Doesn't mean you can't get nekkid.
Those are all uniforms you may be wearing whilst you convince yourself of your nakedness.
I'm arguing that the idea of nakedness or being without a uniform isn't possible, as we all* have a model of reality which is shaped and mediated by the cultural roles we grow up and live within.
*Except for feral children, which I would think only primitivists would think are better off.
Quote from: Net on June 20, 2012, 11:19:19 PM
Those are all uniforms you may be wearing whilst you convince yourself of your nakedness.
Could be. Doesn't have to be.
Quote from: Net on June 20, 2012, 11:19:19 PM
I'm arguing that the idea of nakedness or being without a uniform isn't possible, as we all have a model of reality which is shaped and mediated by the cultural roles we grow up and live within.
I do think it's possible to lessen the grip of those models, if at least temporarily. And if it's possible to lessen the grip, it's possible to quiet it more and more until it seems not to make a peep at all. At least temporarily.
Quote from: Net on June 20, 2012, 11:19:19 PM
Quote from: Epimetheus on June 20, 2012, 10:37:53 PM
Quote from: Net on June 20, 2012, 10:30:03 PM
Quote from: Epimetheus on June 20, 2012, 09:52:13 PM
I think there is nakedness, but the uniforms appear once you have to navigate any kind of culture or society. It's possible to, say, sit in nakedness out in the hills without having to pretend to be anything. It's also possible to be naked in the mind, while uniformed in behavior.
For OP, mittens. I wonder, have you ever seen someone be fanatical about laughter?
You're still describing roles that are culturally mediated:
• fucking hippie
• I'm a Dreamer, man
• "enlightened" bhodisattva AKA Auto-erotic Flatus Inhaler
• Authentic™ but only in isolation, see
• Mind Nudist Uniform Wearer
No, I'm not. Where did I say any of those things?
If you describe nakedness to the culture, it will start to take those roles depending on who hears it or how you describe it.
Doesn't mean you can't get nekkid.
Those are all uniforms you may be wearing whilst you convince yourself of your nakedness.
I'm arguing that the idea of nakedness or being without a uniform isn't possible, as we all* have a model of reality which is shaped and mediated by the cultural roles we grow up and live within.
*Except for feral children, which I would think only primitivists would think are better off.
Troof.
If you wake up and hang out in your underwear all day and don't give a fuck, that's a uniform too.
I think the OP was about not being CONFINED to a certain uniform, though.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 20, 2012, 11:24:28 PM
If you wake up and hang out in your underwear all day and don't give a fuck, that's a uniform too.
How so? I see that it's making some kind of personality, and it may fit into
other people's ideas of uniforms when they see you doing it, but that's on them, not on you in your underwearness.
QuoteI think the OP was about not being CONFINED to a certain uniform, though.
Agreed.
I tend to strive for a Uniform of Many Colors, to borrow from an old cliche. That is, the many different roles I play, are all informed by who I am at my core. Though, the thing is, some may ignore or not be on touch with the core, while still others will suppree in order to gain the favor of another.
Ther are times when many of us have to play The Game, but hopefully we don't allow it to play us.
(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7655/technif.jpg)
Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on June 20, 2012, 09:38:12 PM
Discordianism is yet another uniform. Where are YOUR multiple sides, Mr Reverend?
It is? If it is, then it changes every day. This, of course, can be a little hectic...I am, after all, the king of the violent mood swing (in case nobody noticed). Today I am spouting the word. Tomorrow I will probably contradict it. Or seem to, anyway. There aren't any actual contradictions in what I do, just different ways of looking at the same problem.
So if it's a uniform, it's one that doesn't bore me. It would be almost like a crotchless wet suit. Imagine a black doormat with fur sticking out of unmentionable places. Oh, yeah. That's what I was trying to say.
Quote from: Epimetheus on June 20, 2012, 11:45:56 PM
KNOCK OUT DRUGZ, KNOCK OUT DRUGZ,
LET'S ALL DO OUR PART!
TELL YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT IT
AND THAT'S A REAL GOOD START
KNOCK OUT DRUGZ, KOCK OUT DRUGZ,
NIXON'S THROBBING KNOB
MADE ME SHIT A LITTLE BIT
AND THEN I SHIT A LOT! HAY!
/
(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7655/technif.jpg)
OK, back to uniforms....PLEASE...
Quote from: Net on June 20, 2012, 09:48:25 PM
There's not much to discuss here because I completely agree. Mittens, awesome post, vindaloo-salute, etc.
For the sake of conversation, I'm going to wear the asshat uniform.
Quote
Fact: Once you've put on a uniform, you tend to filter everything through it. You become what you espouse...A two-dimensional being that sees only the things that their uniforms allow them to see.
If uniforms can be equated with identity politics or reality tunnels or Butt Iron Prisons, then what is the alternative? Nakedness? What would that mean?
We can't escape our Butt Iron Prisons, that is to say, we have to limit our perception in some way, we have to come at things from an angle, or to use the uniform idea—we can't escape cultural roles. There is no, "nakedness" then, if I'm understanding the metaphor correctly. Then the best we can do is be able to change our uniforms at will, and wear whatever uniform that best enables us to do what we want.
Or :?
Nakedness? Nobody's naked unless they also have severe brain damage, or even more Holiness™ than myself. Change your clothes once a day, at minimum. No uniform can hurt you if you don't keep it on too long.
That was the meaning behind the whole TGRR/Doktor Howl thing, from which I have decided I am no longer gaining any benefit.
Quote from: Epimetheus on June 20, 2012, 11:45:56 PM
(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7655/technif.jpg)
Fabulous!
Though the hair isn't quite right.
TGRR, are you calling a uniform the defined cultural role we play, or the set of personality/behavior we exhibit?
Everything you are is tantamount to a uniform. The whole ego is a uniform. Every personality trait. Every. Single. One. Burn the fucker up and start again. You'll be accused of being fake. Don't worry about it. Truth is, there's no such thing as real when it comes to personality.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 20, 2012, 11:54:51 PM
Quote from: Net on June 20, 2012, 09:48:25 PM
There's not much to discuss here because I completely agree. Mittens, awesome post, vindaloo-salute, etc.
For the sake of conversation, I'm going to wear the asshat uniform.
Quote
Fact: Once you've put on a uniform, you tend to filter everything through it. You become what you espouse...A two-dimensional being that sees only the things that their uniforms allow them to see.
If uniforms can be equated with identity politics or reality tunnels or Butt Iron Prisons, then what is the alternative? Nakedness? What would that mean?
We can't escape our Butt Iron Prisons, that is to say, we have to limit our perception in some way, we have to come at things from an angle, or to use the uniform idea—we can't escape cultural roles. There is no, "nakedness" then, if I'm understanding the metaphor correctly. Then the best we can do is be able to change our uniforms at will, and wear whatever uniform that best enables us to do what we want.
Or :?
Nakedness? Nobody's naked unless they also have severe brain damage, or even more Holiness™ than myself. Change your clothes once a day, at minimum. No uniform can hurt you if you don't keep it on too long.
That was the meaning behind the whole TGRR/Doktor Howl thing, from which I have decided I am no longer gaining any benefit.
Has Dok been consigned to the Realm of Little Billy? :cry:
Quote from: Epimetheus on June 20, 2012, 11:59:14 PM
TGRR, are you calling a uniform the defined cultural role we play, or the set of personality/behavior we exhibit?
Both, but primarily the roles we assign ourselves. That's the best part about The Machine™. You will find your own place in it, most times. The sole difference is Discordianism, which is WHY I am a Discordian, and what makes it different is nuance. If you're a Discordian and you have your head in the right place, everything should be as different as possible every day. That's why, for example, the weed/libertarian/magickle/IP threads are so infuriating. You're doing the same shit you've done before, almost verbatim. Nothing new is being introduced. It's a rerun. You can get THAT on the teevee.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 21, 2012, 12:01:54 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 20, 2012, 11:54:51 PM
Quote from: Net on June 20, 2012, 09:48:25 PM
There's not much to discuss here because I completely agree. Mittens, awesome post, vindaloo-salute, etc.
For the sake of conversation, I'm going to wear the asshat uniform.
Quote
Fact: Once you've put on a uniform, you tend to filter everything through it. You become what you espouse...A two-dimensional being that sees only the things that their uniforms allow them to see.
If uniforms can be equated with identity politics or reality tunnels or Butt Iron Prisons, then what is the alternative? Nakedness? What would that mean?
We can't escape our Butt Iron Prisons, that is to say, we have to limit our perception in some way, we have to come at things from an angle, or to use the uniform idea—we can't escape cultural roles. There is no, "nakedness" then, if I'm understanding the metaphor correctly. Then the best we can do is be able to change our uniforms at will, and wear whatever uniform that best enables us to do what we want.
Or :?
Nakedness? Nobody's naked unless they also have severe brain damage, or even more Holiness™ than myself. Change your clothes once a day, at minimum. No uniform can hurt you if you don't keep it on too long.
That was the meaning behind the whole TGRR/Doktor Howl thing, from which I have decided I am no longer gaining any benefit.
Has Dok been consigned to the Realm of Little Billy? :cry:
I'm pretty sure. I'm trying to cut out a new reality tunnel now, one that's entirely my own and not a mish-mash of other shit.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 21, 2012, 12:00:58 AM
Everything you are is tantamount to a uniform. The whole ego is a uniform. Every personality trait. Every. Single. One. Burn the fucker up and start again. You'll be accused of being fake. Don't worry about it. Truth is, there's no such thing as real when it comes to personality.
There can be, and that's the danger. If you wear any given uniform long enough, the filters become more or less permanent, and you lapse into memetic false consciousness, where you just strain information through your filters, instead of thinking.
An example of someone wearing the uniform RIGHT: Twiddleton. He did the Irish thing for quite a while, drove it around until he had it figured out, then moved on to something else. This is risky, however, unless you bore easily.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 21, 2012, 12:04:18 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 21, 2012, 12:01:54 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 20, 2012, 11:54:51 PM
Quote from: Net on June 20, 2012, 09:48:25 PM
There's not much to discuss here because I completely agree. Mittens, awesome post, vindaloo-salute, etc.
For the sake of conversation, I'm going to wear the asshat uniform.
Quote
Fact: Once you've put on a uniform, you tend to filter everything through it. You become what you espouse...A two-dimensional being that sees only the things that their uniforms allow them to see.
If uniforms can be equated with identity politics or reality tunnels or Butt Iron Prisons, then what is the alternative? Nakedness? What would that mean?
We can't escape our Butt Iron Prisons, that is to say, we have to limit our perception in some way, we have to come at things from an angle, or to use the uniform idea—we can't escape cultural roles. There is no, "nakedness" then, if I'm understanding the metaphor correctly. Then the best we can do is be able to change our uniforms at will, and wear whatever uniform that best enables us to do what we want.
Or :?
Nakedness? Nobody's naked unless they also have severe brain damage, or even more Holiness™ than myself. Change your clothes once a day, at minimum. No uniform can hurt you if you don't keep it on too long.
That was the meaning behind the whole TGRR/Doktor Howl thing, from which I have decided I am no longer gaining any benefit.
Has Dok been consigned to the Realm of Little Billy? :cry:
I'm pretty sure. I'm trying to cut out a new reality tunnel now, one that's entirely my own and not a mish-mash of other shit.
Looking forward to that!
Not sure how to totally avoid being derivative..."I know! No, wait, that's
Lost Highway..."
Quote from: Uncle Wallified on June 20, 2012, 09:57:27 PM
It's happening, Reverend. I'm feeling myself crumble away. I feel more and more robotic by the day, and soon I fear that I'll be nothing more than an appliance of The Company. And what's more, it seems to be confined to me. My coworkers chat and laugh and poke fun at each other, and all I ever do is scrub the dishes. I scrub with silent urgency. I scrub with rage, with intensity, but still I only scrub. I scare them, Reverend. I scare my coworkers, and I don't know why. I'll think I'm just wearing my default expression, but when I get a look at myself in a thinned-out pan I see a mask of fury.
I don't actually see a downside here, unless these are people you want to like.
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 21, 2012, 12:09:04 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 21, 2012, 12:04:18 AM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on June 21, 2012, 12:01:54 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 20, 2012, 11:54:51 PM
Quote from: Net on June 20, 2012, 09:48:25 PM
There's not much to discuss here because I completely agree. Mittens, awesome post, vindaloo-salute, etc.
For the sake of conversation, I'm going to wear the asshat uniform.
Quote
Fact: Once you've put on a uniform, you tend to filter everything through it. You become what you espouse...A two-dimensional being that sees only the things that their uniforms allow them to see.
If uniforms can be equated with identity politics or reality tunnels or Butt Iron Prisons, then what is the alternative? Nakedness? What would that mean?
We can't escape our Butt Iron Prisons, that is to say, we have to limit our perception in some way, we have to come at things from an angle, or to use the uniform idea—we can't escape cultural roles. There is no, "nakedness" then, if I'm understanding the metaphor correctly. Then the best we can do is be able to change our uniforms at will, and wear whatever uniform that best enables us to do what we want.
Or :?
Nakedness? Nobody's naked unless they also have severe brain damage, or even more Holiness™ than myself. Change your clothes once a day, at minimum. No uniform can hurt you if you don't keep it on too long.
That was the meaning behind the whole TGRR/Doktor Howl thing, from which I have decided I am no longer gaining any benefit.
Has Dok been consigned to the Realm of Little Billy? :cry:
I'm pretty sure. I'm trying to cut out a new reality tunnel now, one that's entirely my own and not a mish-mash of other shit.
Looking forward to that!
Not sure how to totally avoid being derivative..."I know! No, wait, that's Lost Highway..."
Totally different this time, I think. I'm in no hurry. I want to drive it around IRL for a while, first.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 21, 2012, 12:03:34 AM
Quote from: Epimetheus on June 20, 2012, 11:59:14 PM
TGRR, are you calling a uniform the defined cultural role we play, or the set of personality/behavior we exhibit?
Both, but primarily the roles we assign ourselves. That's the best part about The Machine™. You will find your own place in it, most times.
Okay, given that definition I can see how uniforms are more inevitable. But it still looks like there's a way to move forward even without assigning oneself a role. It's not so practical if you have a goal, if you want to
get something out of The Machine, but it's a possible path.
QuoteThe sole difference is Discordianism, which is WHY I am a Discordian, and what makes it different is nuance. If you're a Discordian and you have your head in the right place, everything should be as different as possible every day. That's why, for example, the weed/libertarian/magickle/IP threads are so infuriating. You're doing the same shit you've done before, almost verbatim. Nothing new is being introduced. It's a rerun. You can get THAT on the teevee.
True, but what about the guy who hasn't seen that episode before? It's new to him.
Quote from: Epimetheus on June 21, 2012, 12:12:03 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 21, 2012, 12:03:34 AM
Quote from: Epimetheus on June 20, 2012, 11:59:14 PM
TGRR, are you calling a uniform the defined cultural role we play, or the set of personality/behavior we exhibit?
Both, but primarily the roles we assign ourselves. That's the best part about The Machine™. You will find your own place in it, most times.
Okay, given that definition I can see how uniforms are more inevitable. But it still looks like there's a way to move forward even without assigning oneself a role. It's not so practical if you have a goal, if you want to get something out of The Machine, but it's a possible path.
QuoteThe sole difference is Discordianism, which is WHY I am a Discordian, and what makes it different is nuance. If you're a Discordian and you have your head in the right place, everything should be as different as possible every day. That's why, for example, the weed/libertarian/magickle/IP threads are so infuriating. You're doing the same shit you've done before, almost verbatim. Nothing new is being introduced. It's a rerun. You can get THAT on the teevee.
True, but what about the guy who hasn't seen that episode before? It's new to him.
He's twelve, living on a hog farm outside Paducah, and doesn't have internet access.
Sometimes people, knowingly, just want a little TeeVee time. Pressure relief valve or something. It's not everyone's bag of course, and hopefully people are able to push themselves away from the TeeVee.
I think another important point in this discussion is that the internet is a piss-poor medium for really garnering any kind of accurate sketch as to who a person REALLY is. I know I'm not putting all of me out there because it just isn't practical. I don't think you can really engender a connection or friendship deep enough to get to those inner layers, not solely through a forum or the internet. IMO anyway.
Quote from: Epimetheus on June 21, 2012, 12:12:03 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 21, 2012, 12:03:34 AM
Quote from: Epimetheus on June 20, 2012, 11:59:14 PM
TGRR, are you calling a uniform the defined cultural role we play, or the set of personality/behavior we exhibit?
Both, but primarily the roles we assign ourselves. That's the best part about The Machine™. You will find your own place in it, most times.
Okay, given that definition I can see how uniforms are more inevitable. But it still looks like there's a way to move forward even without assigning oneself a role. It's not so practical if you have a goal, if you want to get something out of The Machine, but it's a possible path.
QuoteThe sole difference is Discordianism, which is WHY I am a Discordian, and what makes it different is nuance. If you're a Discordian and you have your head in the right place, everything should be as different as possible every day. That's why, for example, the weed/libertarian/magickle/IP threads are so infuriating. You're doing the same shit you've done before, almost verbatim. Nothing new is being introduced. It's a rerun. You can get THAT on the teevee.
True, but what about the guy who hasn't seen that episode before? It's new to him.
PD comes equipped with on-demand.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 21, 2012, 12:06:35 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 21, 2012, 12:00:58 AM
Everything you are is tantamount to a uniform. The whole ego is a uniform. Every personality trait. Every. Single. One. Burn the fucker up and start again. You'll be accused of being fake. Don't worry about it. Truth is, there's no such thing as real when it comes to personality.
There can be, and that's the danger. If you wear any given uniform long enough, the filters become more or less permanent, and you lapse into memetic false consciousness, where you just strain information through your filters, instead of thinking.
An example of someone wearing the uniform RIGHT: Twiddleton. He did the Irish thing for quite a while, drove it around until he had it figured out, then moved on to something else. This is risky, however, unless you bore easily.
I think this is (an unconscious) reason I decided to finally join a group doing HEMA that is "different" from what I was taught. I need to see what other people are thinking and doing.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 20, 2012, 08:31:26 PM
WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING?
There's been some serious backsliding in this here church. Once the haven of those who could laugh at adversity until their sphincters popped, the home of a breed of mutant that wore NO MAN'S UNIFORM, there seems to be a little bit of the old Grey creeping in. People are running around with causes.
Everyone IS there Cause now. Some strange brain felching shift, once they could no longer by defined by their material possessions, they had to be defined by whatever pre - packaged revolution was available.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 20, 2012, 08:31:26 PM
And we all know that there is only one "cause", and that is Chaos, in all her forms and glories.
There can never be any canon other than the St. Howitzer and the truth she spews. If this were not the case, then this statement would be IT.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 20, 2012, 08:31:26 PM
Of course, people will deny their uniforms, even as they straighten their collars and brush lint off of their epaulets. "This is just one side of me", they say, "There's lots more, but I don't choose to express the rest at this time". And so they click their heels and smack their heads on the backdrop in an effort to march off into the glorious sunset.
Fact: Once you've put on a uniform, you tend to filter everything through it. You become what you espouse...A two-dimensional being that sees only the things that their uniforms allow them to see. Then they fuck off to Facebook or whatever, because they can't get Discordians to stay interested in that topic forever. And may Eris have mercy on what's left of their souls.
I heard a lot about people being "worn" be their uniforms. I couldn't relate until I had put on the black trench coat and boots, and realized I was letting someone outside of me define my head space based on what rags I had draped around. Patently ludicrous. Sure, some folks can wear the same thing and be fine, but it just wasn't ME.
Quick self-check here. Be honest. If you put it on, and an IMAGE is more prominent in your mind than anything else, then take it off unlss you're in a play. Walking down the street thinking you are a Clint Eastwood character is useless unless you actually are.
Lashing back in the opposite direction against this would just be another way of letting the drapes determine how open the window is. In a fecal monsoon.
Like the man said. Fuck it, look silly. This is the logic that got me into polo shirts in the office. I am silly looking and comfy as a beach bum. This only helps.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 20, 2012, 08:31:26 PM
That uniform won't save you from the coming Weird Times™. I doubt much of anything can...But there's no sense getting all SERIOUS about things you can't do anything about. Laugh a little. No, scream your laughter until your vocal chords come out...BRAY SPITTLE AND LAUGHTER IN THEIR UNCOMPREHENDING FACES UNTIL THEY FINALLY BRING YOU DOWN.
Beats the fuck out of ulcers. And it beats the fuck out of pretending you're something you're not. In short, it beats being Pink.
Or Kill Me.
RAH.
Hell yeah.
I took off my uniform. Took some getting used to but after a while I felt liberated. I was free, free to think without the constraints of uniform thinking, free to act without the constraints of uniform acting. I'd reached nirvana. Only thing was, for some reason this pissed off the uniforms. They crowded round me like so many white blood cells round a virus. I wasn't wearing a uniform, I was an invader.
I ran like hell and hid in a warehouse, shaking with adrenaline and cursing myself for being so naive. Of course I wasn't the first one. Of course the machine had defences against this kind of thing. I thought I was free. Who the fuck was I kidding? You can never be free. Not in that sense. They'll destroy your free radical ass. Hell, there's uniforms devoted to doing nothing else. I was seven shades of fucked.
I looked around at the racks in the storage facility I'd blindly run into. Racks and racks of uniforms. I picked up one my size and, with grim resignation, I put it on, steeling myself for the inevitable opressive loss of identity. The seconds ticked past. I opened my eyes. Nothing had changed. Here I was, all dressed up in a uniform and I was still me.
I tentatively stepped outside, into the sunlight, amongst the uniforms who, for the most part ignored me, busy as the were with their own little narratives. That's when I realised the key to surviving, as a non-conforming member of this ultra-conformist society. When is a uniform not a uniform? When it's camouflage. When it's a disguise.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 21, 2012, 03:04:39 PM
I tentatively stepped outside, into the sunlight, amongst the uniforms who, for the most part ignored me, busy as the were with their own little narratives. That's when I realised the key to surviving, as a non-conforming member of this ultra-conformist society. When is a uniform not a uniform? When it's camouflage. When it's a disguise.
Exactly. Precisely.
There's the danger, of course, of becoming the disguise...But a little careful selection gets around that. My personal disguise is Joe Blue Collar, at least in terms of general appearance. I have no issue with blue collar folks in general, but I've known enough yahoo jackasses to make me NOT want to act as I look.
Im not sure if my thought process is tainted from thinking about typifications so much lately but...
There lies a danger in mentally getting stuck in a role in the sense that you cannot be anything else...
It would be like self-stereotyping... "I am X, so i must do Y, because of Z; this is what i am and this is what i must do"...
A person can choose to be a one-dimensional entity which becomes the one and ultimate point of reference to all they do and think...
Maybe this has to do with "duty" and "responsibility"... certain roles demand certain things of myself... but is doing that role correctly betraying myself?
To what point does the role become an imposition instead of something one assumed itself?
Quote from: Joh'Nyx on June 21, 2012, 03:22:05 PM
Im not sure if my thought process is tainted from thinking about typifications so much lately but...
There lies a danger in mentally getting stuck in a role in the sense that you cannot be anything else...
It would be like self-stereotyping... "I am X, so i must do Y, because of Z; this is what i am and this is what i must do"...
A person can choose to be a one-dimensional entity which becomes the one and ultimate point of reference to all they do and think...
Maybe this has to do with "duty" and "responsibility"... certain roles demand certain things of myself... but is doing that role correctly betraying myself?
To what point does the role become an imposition instead of something one assumed itself?
I think that the key is to disrupt the role you play in minor, innocuous ways. Don't BECOME it, keep yourself aware of it with the little tortures that keep the parasitic memes away.
Construction workers don't quote pop songs out of context, rephrased ever so slightly to sound like sage words of wisdom. Not even only once in awhile. Office workers don't keep an Einsturzende Neubauten symbol scribbled on their post-it notes that are important.
It's those small subversions that keep the parasite from getting an internal hold, I think, while seeming like harmless quirks to the ones who are already part of the botnet.
Quote from: 00.dusk on June 21, 2012, 03:45:35 PM
Construction workers don't quote pop songs out of context, rephrased ever so slightly to sound like sage words of wisdom. Not even only once in awhile. Office workers don't keep an Einsturzende Neubauten symbol scribbled on their post-it notes that are important.
It's those small subversions that keep the parasite from getting an internal hold, I think, while seeming like harmless quirks to the ones who are already part of the botnet.
I think that turning a blind eye to the small deviances (or subversions if you may) that people make in their everyday life, is just reinforcing and perpetuating the stereotype.
If you expect someone will act a certain way, you might just incite that someone to act that way because they might just get tired of being falsely accused of something they didnt do, so might as well do it.
Although i think the process by which we stereotype ourselves is way more complex than the process by which a person stereotypes someone other than themselves.
The simplest way I can describe it is this:
I am employed as a maintenance supervisor in a refinery. What I AM is a human being.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 21, 2012, 06:00:31 PM
The simplest way I can describe it is this:
I am employed as a maintenance supervisor in a refinery. What I AM is a human being.
STOP BEING REASONABLE :argh!:
:lulz: But you're absolutely right.
Quote from: 00.dusk on June 21, 2012, 06:04:03 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 21, 2012, 06:00:31 PM
The simplest way I can describe it is this:
I am employed as a maintenance supervisor in a refinery. What I AM is a human being.
STOP BEING REASONABLE :argh!:
:lulz: But you're absolutely right.
I get a boot out of being introduced to people.
"Roger, this is Paul. He's a safety technician."
"No, he's a person who makes a living in industrial safety."
Paul - or whomever - usually smiles. My boss gets agitated. But my boss IS a plant manager who, while being a really nice guy, is only mostly human.
Sometimes, wearing a uniform is appropriate. A soldier, for example, must maintain focus on what he does at all times. It is dangerous to himself and to others to step outside the uniform, in training or in combat.
One may, if one were so inclined, build a collection of uniforms, to be chopped and changed, perhaps even mixed up, more or less at will. It's like dress up. It's like make believe. It's as real as doing it any other way. Don't let them convince you otherwise. Whenever you hear "You can't X because you're Y" Do not listen. It's fallacy. It's just another stupid uniform talking at you.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 21, 2012, 06:09:08 PM
Sometimes, wearing a uniform is appropriate. A soldier, for example, must maintain focus on what he does at all times. It is dangerous to himself and to others to step outside the uniform, in training or in combat.
This has my mind gears turning. I may have to go to bed before I can say WHERE they're turning, but there's something that steps beyond mere "simple to understand" truth when it comes to this.
Here's something, so that maybe we can try wetware cloud computing since these fuckers have wetware botnets:
Aren't ALL jobs where there are people at risk jobs where the Uniform should take precedence? An example from my own life: I receive an SSI check because I'm only barely sane enough to hide the true depths of my madness from the Powers That Be Exceptionally Dumb. This month, some stupid bastard fucked up my check, and I may not get it at all. Now let's say he fucked it up because there was some distance between What He Does and Who He Is -- i.e., he was not fully "in character" -- he was not living the Uniform. That could, potentially, lead to me being right back where I was, which (for many) would be just as bad as murdering them, if not worse. Granted, I'm not actually living that situation yet. I'm lucky enough that it was only my state check for some 20-odd dollars. But this dumb jerk -could- have ruined my attempts at getting back on somewhat stable footing.
On the other hand, I can't IMAGINE letting Bureaucracy become Who You Are. That isn't soul-sucking, that's when there's no soul left and something slippery and dark from below the Sub-Basement of the Universe has crawled inside and made its nest. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
The question is, should this man or should he not wear his Uniform? (Also: should I or should I not stop posting until I have slept a little?)
Quote from: 00.dusk on June 21, 2012, 06:24:19 PM
Aren't ALL jobs where there are people at risk jobs where the Uniform should take precedence? An example from my own life: I receive an SSI check because I'm only barely sane enough to hide the true depths of my madness from the Powers That Be Exceptionally Dumb. This month, some stupid bastard fucked up my check, and I may not get it at all. Now let's say he fucked it up because there was some distance between What He Does and Who He Is -- i.e., he was not fully "in character" -- he was not living the Uniform.
No. A fireman must live the uniform. A bureaucrat must simply demonstrate a bare minimum competence level. To ask more is to state that EVERYONE should be the uniform, because a case could be made for ANYONE. Being the uniform is not the same as paying attention to what you are doing.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 21, 2012, 06:38:08 PM
Quote from: 00.dusk on June 21, 2012, 06:24:19 PM
Aren't ALL jobs where there are people at risk jobs where the Uniform should take precedence? An example from my own life: I receive an SSI check because I'm only barely sane enough to hide the true depths of my madness from the Powers That Be Exceptionally Dumb. This month, some stupid bastard fucked up my check, and I may not get it at all. Now let's say he fucked it up because there was some distance between What He Does and Who He Is -- i.e., he was not fully "in character" -- he was not living the Uniform.
No. A fireman must live the uniform. A bureaucrat must simply demonstrate a bare minimum competence level. To ask more is to state that EVERYONE should be the uniform, because a case could be made for ANYONE. Being the uniform is not the same as paying attention to what you are doing.
Point made. And I'm kicking myself for not seeing that.
On "uniforms"
QuoteRunning around nude is ok sometimes, depending on who you're with/where you are.
Usually, it is a social expectation or a matter of basic safety to wear something, be it casual or practical. What that something is depends on your situation.
But, it is also expected that you change clothes every once in a while, because eventually you'll start to stink.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 20, 2012, 08:31:26 PM
WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING?
There's been some serious backsliding in this here church. Once the haven of those who could laugh at adversity until their sphincters popped, the home of a breed of mutant that wore NO MAN'S UNIFORM, there seems to be a little bit of the old Grey creeping in. People are running around with causes.
And we all know that there is only one "cause", and that is Chaos, in all her forms and glories.
Of course, people will deny their uniforms, even as they straighten their collars and brush lint off of their epaulets. "This is just one side of me", they say, "There's lots more, but I don't choose to express the rest at this time". And so they click their heels and smack their heads on the backdrop in an effort to march off into the glorious sunset.
Fact: Once you've put on a uniform, you tend to filter everything through it. You become what you espouse...A two-dimensional being that sees only the things that their uniforms allow them to see. Then they fuck off to Facebook or whatever, because they can't get Discordians to stay interested in that topic forever. And may Eris have mercy on what's left of their souls.
Are you ONLY a scientist? Are you ONLY a professional in your field? Are you ONLY a student or a home maker or an artist? Have you BECOME that uniform? "Of course not", you say, "It's just what interests me." But if your interests have narrowed to ONE THING, then WHAT THE HELL IS THE DIFFERENCE? You have indeed become that uniform. In fact, it's really hard to see you, because the uniform pretty much covers you up entirely. One day, there'll be nothing BUT uniform.
Fanaticism on ANY topic is the hallmark of The Pink. Among myriad other sins, it is boring. It's not funny, and believe me when I tell you, your sense of humor may be the only surivival trait you have left. The Machine™ can - and will - take everything else, but it can't touch your sense of gallows humor unless YOU LET IT.
I can't MAKE anyone see the light, here. I doubt I can even convince anyone...The uniform has its own defense mechanisms, and the biggest weapons in its arsenal are DENIAL and BUTTHURT. It whispers to you, it tells you that if you take off the uniform, you will have BACKED DOWN, and this may make you LOOK WEAK, and that may adversely affect your standing in "the tribe", whatever you may conceive that to be.
Right-thinking Discordians know, of course, that the strongest person is one who can change his or her mind, one who isn't afraid of changing course, who can ADMIT when they've strayed from the path...And who doesn't have some sort of phobia about looking "silly". You look silly all the time. Taking a dump looks silly. You look silly when you sleep. But you look silliest of all when you try to never look silly. That's pomposity, and there's nothing sillier on Earth.
That uniform won't save you from the coming Weird Times™. I doubt much of anything can...But there's no sense getting all SERIOUS about things you can't do anything about. Laugh a little. No, scream your laughter until your vocal chords come out...BRAY SPITTLE AND LAUGHTER IN THEIR UNCOMPREHENDING FACES UNTIL THEY FINALLY BRING YOU DOWN.
Beats the fuck out of ulcers. And it beats the fuck out of pretending you're something you're not. In short, it beats being Pink.
Or Kill Me.
MOTHERFUCKING YEAH GOOD GODDAMN SPEAK THE HOLY!