Principia Discordia

Now that all the science and research (http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/pediatric-group-says-circumcision-benefits-outweigh-risks-a35318ff) is in,

Is circumcision good because it affirms positive cultural traditions?

Is circumcision good because of the proven benefits it provides in hygiene and disease risk?

Or is circumcision good for some other reason?

You say why you believe circumcision is good.

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
Now that all the science and research (http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/pediatric-group-says-circumcision-benefits-outweigh-risks-a35318ff) is in,

Is circumcision good because it affirms positive cultural traditions?

Is circumcision good because of the proven benefits it provides in hygiene and disease risk?

Or is circumcision good for some other reason?

You say why you believe circumcision is good.

If those are my choices, I guess I have nothing to say.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on August 29, 2012, 05:07:19 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
Now that all the science and research (http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/pediatric-group-says-circumcision-benefits-outweigh-risks-a35318ff) is in,

Is circumcision good because it affirms positive cultural traditions?

Is circumcision good because of the proven benefits it provides in hygiene and disease risk?

Or is circumcision good for some other reason?

You say why you believe circumcision is good.

If those are my choices, I guess I have nothing to say.

But pediatricians have made up your mind for you! They have authority and their opinions are based on stuff. These are your options, I'm sorry.


EDIT:
Okay sorry that wasn't explanatory enough. What I'm actually asking here is do you think circumcision is worthwhile? Does it have social implications that (should) override individual choice to some degree? Does it depend on the average health situation in the geographical location in question? Etc.

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:09:10 PM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on August 29, 2012, 05:07:19 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
Now that all the science and research (http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/pediatric-group-says-circumcision-benefits-outweigh-risks-a35318ff) is in,

Is circumcision good because it affirms positive cultural traditions?

Is circumcision good because of the proven benefits it provides in hygiene and disease risk?

Or is circumcision good for some other reason?

You say why you believe circumcision is good.

If those are my choices, I guess I have nothing to say.

But pediatricians have made up your mind for you! They have authority and their opinions are based on stuff. These are your options, I'm sorry.

Ok, then I'll have to say circumcision is good for people who don't understand the concept of soap.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on August 29, 2012, 05:11:04 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:09:10 PM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on August 29, 2012, 05:07:19 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
Now that all the science and research (http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/pediatric-group-says-circumcision-benefits-outweigh-risks-a35318ff) is in,

Is circumcision good because it affirms positive cultural traditions?

Is circumcision good because of the proven benefits it provides in hygiene and disease risk?

Or is circumcision good for some other reason?

You say why you believe circumcision is good.

If those are my choices, I guess I have nothing to say.

But pediatricians have made up your mind for you! They have authority and their opinions are based on stuff. These are your options, I'm sorry.

Ok, then I'll have to say circumcision is good for people who don't understand the concept of soap.

This is true, but also soap isn't universally available in all parts of the world, or easily affordable even when it's available. Some cultures don't practice the daily bath, too.

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
Now that all the science and research (http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/pediatric-group-says-circumcision-benefits-outweigh-risks-a35318ff) is in,

Is circumcision good because it affirms positive cultural traditions?

Is circumcision good because of the proven benefits it provides in hygiene and disease risk?

Or is circumcision good for some other reason?

You say why you believe circumcision is good.

Cut/uncut threads are always good.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 05:14:43 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
Now that all the science and research (http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/pediatric-group-says-circumcision-benefits-outweigh-risks-a35318ff) is in,

Is circumcision good because it affirms positive cultural traditions?

Is circumcision good because of the proven benefits it provides in hygiene and disease risk?

Or is circumcision good for some other reason?

You say why you believe circumcision is good.

Cut/uncut threads are always good.

This is a cultural issue in many places that amounts to more than a "cut/uncut thread." There are real benefits in some cases, there are people who genuinely struggle with this decision. Also, they can talk about this on NPR without it devolving into what you're suggesting, and I'd like to think we're better than NPR, for chrissake.

Circumcisions are good because they line my pockets,  but since health insurance doesn't cover them the decision should be left up to the parents.  [/pediatrician]

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:16:52 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 05:14:43 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
Now that all the science and research (http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/pediatric-group-says-circumcision-benefits-outweigh-risks-a35318ff) is in,

Is circumcision good because it affirms positive cultural traditions?

Is circumcision good because of the proven benefits it provides in hygiene and disease risk?

Or is circumcision good for some other reason?

You say why you believe circumcision is good.

Cut/uncut threads are always good.

This is a cultural issue in many places that amounts to more than a "cut/uncut thread." There are real benefits in some cases, there are people who genuinely struggle with this decision. Also, they can talk about this on NPR without it devolving into what you're suggesting, and I'd like to think we're better than NPR, for chrissake.

Well, it's kinda up there with immunization threads, historically. 

Personally, I am neither for nor against it.  It's a matter of preference.

Female circumcision, on the other hand, is barbarism and people who do it should be flung out of windows.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 05:18:39 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:16:52 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 05:14:43 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
Now that all the science and research (http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/pediatric-group-says-circumcision-benefits-outweigh-risks-a35318ff) is in,

Is circumcision good because it affirms positive cultural traditions?

Is circumcision good because of the proven benefits it provides in hygiene and disease risk?

Or is circumcision good for some other reason?

You say why you believe circumcision is good.

Cut/uncut threads are always good.

This is a cultural issue in many places that amounts to more than a "cut/uncut thread." There are real benefits in some cases, there are people who genuinely struggle with this decision. Also, they can talk about this on NPR without it devolving into what you're suggesting, and I'd like to think we're better than NPR, for chrissake.

Well, it's kinda up there with immunization threads, historically. 

Personally, I am neither for nor against it.  It's a matter of preference.

Female circumcision, on the other hand, is barbarism and people who do it should be flung out of windows.

Female circumcision should be forcefully eradicated with fire and flying lead, cultural preferences and history be damned.

Immunization: I hate that there's even a discussion about that, but I'll keep my mouth shut.

Male circumcision, since I haven't actually stated a position: I think it should be up to the parents, because it's so deeply culturally ingrained, but it should also be discussed as a health issue and further choice should be given to the individual. The exception to this is in areas badly plagued by diseases that can be kept in check by circumcision in those areas, where it should be state policy until the epidemic is contained.

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:13:18 PM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on August 29, 2012, 05:11:04 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:09:10 PM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on August 29, 2012, 05:07:19 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
Now that all the science and research (http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/pediatric-group-says-circumcision-benefits-outweigh-risks-a35318ff) is in,

Is circumcision good because it affirms positive cultural traditions?

Is circumcision good because of the proven benefits it provides in hygiene and disease risk?

Or is circumcision good for some other reason?

You say why you believe circumcision is good.

If those are my choices, I guess I have nothing to say.

But pediatricians have made up your mind for you! They have authority and their opinions are based on stuff. These are your options, I'm sorry.

Ok, then I'll have to say circumcision is good for people who don't understand the concept of soap.

This is true, but also soap isn't universally available in all parts of the world, or easily affordable even when it's available. Some cultures don't practice the daily bath, too.

Well, all I know is that I've never had any hygiene problems with my dick, nor have I ever had any STDs since I've made sure to use protection. It's my dick, I don't want anything bad happening to it after all. So that leaves only penile cancer, and while it might be awhile for me to find out, my father never got it, nor my grandfather. Can't speak about my great-grandfather but I think it's more likely he died of heart disease.

Foreskins rule. You can keep things in them. They're like tiny little wallets, made out of your junk

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 29, 2012, 05:27:21 PM
Foreskins rule. You can keep things in them. They're like tiny little wallets, made out of your junk

Also this.

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on August 29, 2012, 05:11:04 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:09:10 PM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on August 29, 2012, 05:07:19 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
Now that all the science and research (http://newcanaan.patch.com/articles/pediatric-group-says-circumcision-benefits-outweigh-risks-a35318ff) is in,

Is circumcision good because it affirms positive cultural traditions?

Is circumcision good because of the proven benefits it provides in hygiene and disease risk?

Or is circumcision good for some other reason?

You say why you believe circumcision is good.

If those are my choices, I guess I have nothing to say.

But pediatricians have made up your mind for you! They have authority and their opinions are based on stuff. These are your options, I'm sorry.

Ok, then I'll have to say circumcision is good for people who don't understand the concept of soap.

This

supposedly hanving no foreskin makes the tip of your dick less sensitive... which can be good or bad

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 05:36:54 PM
supposedly hanving no foreskin makes the tip of your dick less sensitive... which can be good or bad

I wouldn't know the difference, but I have fun with a clipped unit.

also, this thread is the natural conclusion of having the subforum named beautiful cock

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 05:38:12 PM
also, this thread is the natural conclusion of having the subforum named beautiful cock

This!

Mmm, this thread make Enrico hungry.

Quote from: Enrico Salazar on August 29, 2012, 05:39:36 PM
Mmm, this thread make Enrico hungry.

How is circumcision done in Salizor, pappi?

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 05:37:51 PM

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 05:36:54 PM
supposedly hanving no foreskin makes the tip of your dick less sensitive... which can be good or bad

I wouldn't know the difference, but I have fun with a clipped unit.

some dude i knew got circumsized in high school, and spoke later of having less stimulation in sex and masturbation

maybe circumsicion has a vague benefit against premature ejaculation?

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 05:41:37 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 05:37:51 PM

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 05:36:54 PM
supposedly hanving no foreskin makes the tip of your dick less sensitive... which can be good or bad

I wouldn't know the difference, but I have fun with a clipped unit.

some dude i knew got circumsized in high school, and spoke later of having less stimulation in sex and masturbation

maybe circumsicion has a vague benefit against premature ejaculation?

There's no need to talk about sensation and pleasure. Sex is to be used for strictly utilitarian purposes, not for "enjoyment." Perverts, the lot of you.

I chose to not know if my baby was going to be male/female/intersex, so I admit struggling with the decision due to the hygiene issue. That said, I was going to come down on the uncut side seeing how my theoretical son could decide that for himself at some point, while lopping his foreskin off is kinda irreversible.

I was relieved to find out my daughter didn't have a penis, and I didn't have to make that choice. Had she turned out to be male I don't think I'd have this discussion publicly with anyone out of respect for his privacy.

I don't judge parents about the way they choose to deal the problem though, as there seems to be pros and cons to both sides.

Meh.  They even circumcise whales bred in captivity, now.















You see, they get foreskin divers...

Ur a barsturd.  :crankey:

Quote from: Freeky Queen of DERP on August 29, 2012, 05:51:05 PM
Ur a barsturd.  :crankey:

:hammer:

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 05:40:03 PM

Quote from: Enrico Salazar on August 29, 2012, 05:39:36 PM
Mmm, this thread make Enrico hungry.

How is circumcision done in Salizor, pappi?

Usually with garlic butter.

That article was lukewarm and changes nothing about how I feel, which is a combination of:

A) it's obviously your decision when it comes to your child.
And
B) if you come anywhere near my son's junk with a scalpel you will soon find it in an uncomfortable place. Possibly many places!

It's barbaric and stupid. And wasn't that whole "the more sensitive skin resists HIV less" proven to be bullshit? I thought it was...

My kid was born with one that needed to be clipped anyway due to some deformity that would have caused him pain and further deformity down the line had it not. I'd read about the cleanliness, STD and cancer connection before his birthdate and probably would have chosen that route anyway but it became compulsory. Now, he has normal junk, everything's fine. La di da.

My feeling about it NOW is mixed: On one hand, if it's medically unnecessary and minimally beneficial, I can admit that it just seems barbaric and self-indulgent to start chopping parts off your kid without giving him that choice, simply because it jives better with your own societal, aesthetic or religious orientations.

On the other hand, the part of me who loves my kid enough to be irrational wants to provide him with every little advantage available, even if it's just removing little hidey-holes for germs on his body and the fact that I grew up in a society where it's mainstream leaves me lacking for conflict over it.

Never had any kind of infection in or around my junk, and still have my foreskin.

The hygiene argument is absurd.

Women hide their genitals inside their body, right? Sometimes they can get infected, right? Is the solution: hack up their genitals so they can more easily apply soap? Well why not?

If a guy doesn't know to peel back and wash his foreskin then, much like drugs, he doesn't deserve it.
Also, like drugs, I blame the parents.

What gets called "female circumcision" is cutting out the clitoris, right? That's not "circumcision", that's roughly equivalent to cutting off dicks.

Or at least the tip.

Quote from: Guru Qu1x073 on August 29, 2012, 06:54:40 PM
Never had any kind of infection in or around my junk, and still have my foreskin.

You ever see the arguments they used for it back in the day?

I saw one once that said something to the effect of in case Nazis come back they won't be able to tell who's Jewish or not. Which is probably one of the dumbest reasons I ever heard.

Bathe. Don't screw French hookers. If you have to screw French hookers use a condom. Taking care of an ant-eater isn't rocket science.

Yeah. The good part. :x

ETA: That was in reply to Alty. I'm waiting for the mailman to bring me a damn power cord for my laptop and doing phone internet, so I can't quote.

As far as male circumcision goes, probably the ONLY thing in favor of it is that "everybody else does" and you don't want your kid to feel like a freak in gym class. Which is no reason at all, really.

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on August 29, 2012, 07:02:07 PM
Yeah. The good part. :x

NO!! ITS THE EVIL PART THAT TURNS WOMEN INTO WHORES!!!
:hashishim:

Quote from: Alty on August 29, 2012, 06:59:32 PM
The hygiene argument is absurd.

Women hide their genitals inside their body, right? Sometimes they can get infected, right? Is the solution: hack up their genitals so they can more easily apply soap? Well why not?

If a guy doesn't know to peel back and wash his foreskin then, much like drugs, he doesn't deserve it.
Also, like drugs, I blame the parents.

It isn't as absurd as it sounds. Circumcised people have a 60% lower chance of contracting HIV than non-circumcised people for example, all other things being equal. This has the added effect of lowering HIV risk in women who have sex with circumcised men. Obviously 60% lower isn't "safe," and it's a far lower benefit than safe sex and proper hygiene, but those options aren't always available to people.

In the West we have the luxury of seeing circumcision as a matter of personal (or parental) discretion, and that's great. But Most of the world's population lives in the developing world, and they struggle with a lot more in those places. Circumcision is arguably more important there, where sex is rarely protected and rape is a lot more common than here. There are social workers doing a fairly good job of convincing even grown men of getting circumcised, considering that many people there view circumcision as inherently antithetical to their tribal identities. It isn't as simple to just "choose" circumcision in those places as it is here, because of social stigma and strongly traditional societies.

I thought that HIV study was debunked?

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 29, 2012, 07:11:23 PM
I thought that HIV study was debunked?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision_and_HIV#Estimated_impact_of_circumcision_programs

I'm not certain of the 60% figure (although I've heard that from numerous sources including a dedicated story on NPR, recently), but it's recognized that there's a noticeable reduction in risk of HIV transmission - albeit that assumes general hygiene is poor to begin with.

I would think that its more FUN for missionaries to focus on cutting up african dick instead of worrying about the raping that goes on.

Also, this only (supposedly) adressess the males infection rate, when i have heard that women are more propense to getting infected by transmissible diseases during sex than males are.

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 07:23:41 PM

I would think that its more FUN for missionaries to focus on cutting up african dick instead of worrying about the raping that goes on.

Also, this only (supposedly) adressess the males infection rate, when i have heard that women are more propense to getting infected by transmissible diseases during sex than males are.

Of course they focus on the rape as well, but they shouldn't focus on that at the expense of other tools. Getting raped is terrible, I would imagine. I can't think getting raped and becoming infected by HIV because of it could be anything but much, much worse. And females being more susceptible than males to STDs is true for HIV, I don't have any idea about other diseases, but that's just a fact of biology and we can't ignore it just because we wish it wasn't true. There is no comparably simple procedure for women that produces the same health benefits as circumcision does for men (and women secondarily).

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 07:27:09 PM

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 07:23:41 PM

I would think that its more FUN for missionaries to focus on cutting up african dick instead of worrying about the raping that goes on.

Also, this only (supposedly) adressess the males infection rate, when i have heard that women are more propense to getting infected by transmissible diseases during sex than males are.

Of course they focus on the rape as well, but they shouldn't focus on that at the expense of other tools. Getting raped is terrible, I would imagine. I can't think getting raped and becoming infected by HIV because of it could be anything but much, much worse. And females being more susceptible than males to STDs is true for HIV, I don't have any idea about other diseases, but that's just a fact of biology and we can't ignore it just because we wish it wasn't true. There is no comparably simple procedure for women that produces the same health benefits as circumcision does for men (and women secondarily).

From your wikipedia article:

QuoteDowsett (2007) questioned why it was just males that were being encouraged to circumcise: "Langerhans cells occur in the clitoris, the labia and in other parts of both male and female genitals, and no one is talking of removing these in the name of HIV prevention."[23]

I know the reason why no one is suggesting it. Because it's a stupid solution.

Quote from: Guru Qu1x073 on August 29, 2012, 06:54:40 PM
Never had any kind of infection in or around my junk, and still have my foreskin.

Human viruses don't often infect the Welsh.  It's a compatability thing.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 07:34:27 PM

Quote from: Guru Qu1x073 on August 29, 2012, 06:54:40 PM
Never had any kind of infection in or around my junk, and still have my foreskin.

Human viruses don't often infect the Welsh.  It's a compatability thing.

What about the Irish?

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on August 29, 2012, 07:42:43 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 07:34:27 PM

Quote from: Guru Qu1x073 on August 29, 2012, 06:54:40 PM
Never had any kind of infection in or around my junk, and still have my foreskin.

Human viruses don't often infect the Welsh.  It's a compatability thing.

What about the Irish?

Despite rumors that Irish people can breed true with actual people, I am fairly certain that most microbes that target humans will not survive in the hellbroth of bile and cheap whiskey that Irish people use as a bloodstream.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 07:44:39 PM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on August 29, 2012, 07:42:43 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 07:34:27 PM

Quote from: Guru Qu1x073 on August 29, 2012, 06:54:40 PM
Never had any kind of infection in or around my junk, and still have my foreskin.

Human viruses don't often infect the Welsh.  It's a compatability thing.

What about the Irish?

Despite rumors that Irish people can breed true with actual people, I am fairly certain that most microbes that target humans will not survive in the hellbroth of bile and cheap whiskey that Irish people use as a bloodstream.

This explains why, even though I never drink, I am usually dizzy and I haven't had the flu since 1996.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 07:44:39 PM

Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on August 29, 2012, 07:42:43 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 07:34:27 PM

Quote from: Guru Qu1x073 on August 29, 2012, 06:54:40 PM
Never had any kind of infection in or around my junk, and still have my foreskin.

Human viruses don't often infect the Welsh.  It's a compatability thing.

What about the Irish?

Despite rumors that Irish people can breed true with actual people, I am fairly certain that most microbes that target humans will not survive in the hellbroth of bile and cheap whiskey that Irish people use as a bloodstream.

Hellbroth. I like that.

Quote from: Alty on August 29, 2012, 06:59:32 PM
The hygiene argument is absurd.

Women hide their genitals inside their body, right? Sometimes they can get infected, right? Is the solution: hack up their genitals so they can more easily apply soap? Well why not?

If a guy doesn't know to peel back and wash his foreskin then, much like drugs, he doesn't deserve it.
Also, like drugs, I blame the parents.

(http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/Smileys/default/lemming1.jpg)

Quote from: navkat on August 29, 2012, 07:57:28 PM

Quote from: Alty on August 29, 2012, 06:59:32 PM
The hygiene argument is absurd.

Women hide their genitals inside their body, right? Sometimes they can get infected, right? Is the solution: hack up their genitals so they can more easily apply soap? Well why not?

If a guy doesn't know to peel back and wash his foreskin then, much like drugs, he doesn't deserve it.
Also, like drugs, I blame the parents.

(http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/Smileys/default/lemming1.jpg)

4 pages though. Not bad.

So the article linked isn't saying that circumcision should be mandatory, only that it should be left up to the parents because of a study which indicates that the benefits of the procedure 'appear' to outweigh the risks (because some kids die from the procedure). This is mostly so that insurance companies will cover the procedure, rather than making it come out of the parents pocket.

The HIV study is not 'debunked' as much as the study is plagued with methodology issues. For example, the circumcised subjects also got more training on condom use.

There are legitimate reasons for a circumcision. There is a genetic condition that is common in some families where the penis is actually too big for the foreskin and it causes problems. There is also some evidence that some men are predisposed to some kinds of infection. I have no idea if any of my kids might have these problems, since I was sniped at birth. So I think, were I ever to have a son, I would wait until they were older and either a condition presented itself where the procedure was necessary, or they chose to do it for aesthetic reasons. I wouldn't make that decision at birth, though.

Personally, I am skeptical that some 3000 year old tradition using sharp flint because 'God told me to' actually has health benefits. Maybe it does... but it would require a lot of reliable studies to convince me.

Yeah, I'm pretty reasonable, if SCIENCE! proves that it provides measurable benefit I will change my position. Until that day...

If these men can be convinced to let some asshole chop off a part of their fully grown dick then why can't they be convinced to use a condom, which is way, way, WAY more effective?

It seems the problem isn't foreskin. The problem is quality of life, hygiene, and cultural issues.
It just seems like a deep, collective mental disorder. And I don't say that lightly, it seems genuinely sick to me.

I mean, I think a lot of human behavior could be improved with a small snip to their frontal lobes and you dont see me advocating that kind of...well now that actually gives me an idea.

Did you know 60% of circumcised brains are much less likely to vote republican?

I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Quote from: Alty on August 29, 2012, 08:24:09 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty reasonable, if SCIENCE! proves that it provides measurable benefit I will change my position. Until that day...

If these men can be convinced to let some asshole chop off a part of their fully grown dick then why can't they be convinced to use a condom, which is way, way, WAY more effective?

It seems the problem isn't foreskin. The problem is quality of life, hygiene, and cultural issues.
It just seems like a deep, collective mental disorder. And I don't say that lightly, it seems genuinely sick to me.

My instinct is to disagree with this, but I'm trying to unravel how much of that instinct comes from research and science, and how much comes from not wanting to think I am personally affected by collective cultural madness. The discussion is interesting because it highlights deep divisions between otherwise sane people, and how one group of people are able to condone and even push for something that is arguably insane.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
"Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

:lulz:

We are well aware of the way that the physical limitations of the central nervous system, and how our perceptions are equally limited. The same can be said for the rest of the human body.

If you were a quadriplegic, blind, and deaf your grasp on reality would be very different. Now that's an extreme example. So why not something smaller? Why not a piece of skin that contains MANY nerve endings. What kind of perspective is available to a society of men who are unable to feel what their brains have felt for a long, long time? What kind of long-term effects would result from an isolation from specific sensations?

Not that there's anything intrinsically wrong with the perspective of people who get he snip, just different.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Ironically, the Jewish tradition is because YHVH said it would separate Abraham's children from the rest of the world, since Abraham was his buddy and he had promised Abraham that the 'seed'/'messiah' would come through his line. Poor Abe was in his 90's at the time. There was no mention by old YHVH that it was a health issue, but rather that it was a token of the covenant between Abraham and YHVH.

"You're my friend, to prove we're friends, please cut of a bit of your penis. Also cut off a bit of your son's penis and make every male in your lineage cut off a bit of their penis. Here's a nice sharp chunk of flint."

See, sounds just like YHVH, with friends like him... you're fucked.  :lulz:

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 29, 2012, 09:01:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Ironically, the Jewish tradition is because YHVH said it would separate Abraham's children from the rest of the world, since Abraham was his buddy and he had promised Abraham that the 'seed'/'messiah' would come through his line. Poor Abe was in his 90's at the time. There was no mention by old YHVH that it was a health issue, but rather that it was a token of the covenant between Abraham and YHVH.

"You're my friend, to prove we're friends, please cut of a bit of your penis. Also cut off a bit of your son's penis and make every male in your lineage cut off a bit of their penis. Here's a nice sharp chunk of flint."

See, sounds just like YHVH, with friends like him... you're fucked.  :lulz:

I dont remember where i read it, but cutting a piece of your dick off was kind of like a war uniform, to distinguish your comrades from enemies.

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 09:15:04 PM

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 29, 2012, 09:01:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Ironically, the Jewish tradition is because YHVH said it would separate Abraham's children from the rest of the world, since Abraham was his buddy and he had promised Abraham that the 'seed'/'messiah' would come through his line. Poor Abe was in his 90's at the time. There was no mention by old YHVH that it was a health issue, but rather that it was a token of the covenant between Abraham and YHVH.

"You're my friend, to prove we're friends, please cut of a bit of your penis. Also cut off a bit of your son's penis and make every male in your lineage cut off a bit of their penis. Here's a nice sharp chunk of flint."

See, sounds just like YHVH, with friends like him... you're fucked.  :lulz:

I dont remember where i read it, but cutting a piece of your dick off was kind of like a war uniform, to distinguish your comrades from enemies.

There are quite a few tribes in Africa who still use it this way, which is part of the reason why it can be so hard to get people to do it.

So YHVH checks everybody's dick to see who's really Jewish?

Why did the custom spread to everybody else? OMF?

Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on August 29, 2012, 09:21:35 PM
So YHVH checks everybody's dick to see who's really Jewish?

Why did the custom spread to everybody else? OMF?

Yeah... I would have thought he had a DNA sequencer or something like that... but apparently he just did upskirts pics.

As to why it spread in the West... its kinda odd. according to the Christian Greek scriptures, the Apostles determined that Gentiles did not need to be circumcised. They claimed it was part of the Old Covenant which had been replaced by the New Covenant with Jesus. Circumcision in the US was not all that popular, even in the early 20th Century (according to Wikipedia it was about 33% of males in the 1930's).

However, there are a lot of modern Christian groups that think its supposed to be done... probably because the Bible is used to collect dust in their house, rather than be read ;-)

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

:spittake:

Fucking hell, Roger...  Now there's iced tea in my keyboard.

This is a GIRL'S keyboard, it's not SUPPOSED to get all sticky.   :argh!:

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 09:20:05 PM

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 09:15:04 PM

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 29, 2012, 09:01:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Ironically, the Jewish tradition is because YHVH said it would separate Abraham's children from the rest of the world, since Abraham was his buddy and he had promised Abraham that the 'seed'/'messiah' would come through his line. Poor Abe was in his 90's at the time. There was no mention by old YHVH that it was a health issue, but rather that it was a token of the covenant between Abraham and YHVH.

"You're my friend, to prove we're friends, please cut of a bit of your penis. Also cut off a bit of your son's penis and make every male in your lineage cut off a bit of their penis. Here's a nice sharp chunk of flint."

See, sounds just like YHVH, with friends like him... you're fucked.  :lulz:

I dont remember where i read it, but cutting a piece of your dick off was kind of like a war uniform, to distinguish your comrades from enemies.

There are quite a few tribes in Africa who still use it this way, which is part of the reason why it can be so hard to get people to do it.

Really? I was talking about how i read about its origins with early jews against heathen tribes... didnt know this "war uniform" thing with circumsicion still was the reason.

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 09:37:56 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 09:20:05 PM

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 09:15:04 PM

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 29, 2012, 09:01:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Ironically, the Jewish tradition is because YHVH said it would separate Abraham's children from the rest of the world, since Abraham was his buddy and he had promised Abraham that the 'seed'/'messiah' would come through his line. Poor Abe was in his 90's at the time. There was no mention by old YHVH that it was a health issue, but rather that it was a token of the covenant between Abraham and YHVH.

"You're my friend, to prove we're friends, please cut of a bit of your penis. Also cut off a bit of your son's penis and make every male in your lineage cut off a bit of their penis. Here's a nice sharp chunk of flint."

See, sounds just like YHVH, with friends like him... you're fucked.  :lulz:

I dont remember where i read it, but cutting a piece of your dick off was kind of like a war uniform, to distinguish your comrades from enemies.

There are quite a few tribes in Africa who still use it this way, which is part of the reason why it can be so hard to get people to do it.

Really? I was talking about how i read about its origins with early jews against heathen tribes... didnt know this "war uniform" thing with circumsicion still was the reason.

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/05/156197071/an-aids-ravaged-nation-turns-to-circumcision (http://www.npr.org/2012/07/05/156197071/an-aids-ravaged-nation-turns-to-circumcision)

Not sure about the "war" part but it definitely plays a part in tribal identity in some places.

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 09:37:56 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 09:20:05 PM

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 09:15:04 PM

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 29, 2012, 09:01:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Ironically, the Jewish tradition is because YHVH said it would separate Abraham's children from the rest of the world, since Abraham was his buddy and he had promised Abraham that the 'seed'/'messiah' would come through his line. Poor Abe was in his 90's at the time. There was no mention by old YHVH that it was a health issue, but rather that it was a token of the covenant between Abraham and YHVH.

"You're my friend, to prove we're friends, please cut of a bit of your penis. Also cut off a bit of your son's penis and make every male in your lineage cut off a bit of their penis. Here's a nice sharp chunk of flint."

See, sounds just like YHVH, with friends like him... you're fucked.  :lulz:

I dont remember where i read it, but cutting a piece of your dick off was kind of like a war uniform, to distinguish your comrades from enemies.

There are quite a few tribes in Africa who still use it this way, which is part of the reason why it can be so hard to get people to do it.

Really? I was talking about how i read about its origins with early jews against heathen tribes... didnt know this "war uniform" thing with circumsicion still was the reason.

I believe the procedure dates as far back as Egypt. I was just commenting on the Western usage which is heavily influenced by their religion. There are various groups in Africa that do it for various reasons. In fact, I saw an episode of Bizarre Worlds where circumcision was done to the boy as a ritual of his becoming a man (the kid was 6 or 8 or something, not a baby). Once done, the eldest male relatives ate the foreskin, symbolically tying the older generation to the younger generation.

In Turkey, circumcision is also a 'becoming a man' ritual (Sunnet). Though its often done at childbirth (though a lot of people still hold to the old tradition), the celebration happens later in life (between the age of 5 and 12 depending on the affluence of the family). The boys are dressed in a white costume with a cape (with sparkles) and a hat (with feathers), they then load the kids into a vehicle and drive around the town/village while gypsies ride behind them in the back of a truck playing drums and flutes and horns and making music in general. The boy usually hangs out the window and waves at people like he's in a parade. That evening they will have a big celebration with food and dancing, then the boys will go dance and people will throw money at them. Its generally very expensive and family save for years in order to do it. The local city/town/village will hold a special event every few months for the families that are too poor to afford it on their own.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3073/3024602401_40685d7af4.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4WzRyYjHmE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4WzRyYjHmE)  <--- Video of a Circumcision party.

Quote from: Luna on August 29, 2012, 09:29:54 PM

This is a GIRL'S keyboard, it's not SUPPOSED to get all sticky.   :argh!:

That's because you're not serious about having a good time.

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 29, 2012, 09:01:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Ironically, the Jewish tradition is because YHVH said it would separate Abraham's children from the rest of the world, since Abraham was his buddy and he had promised Abraham that the 'seed'/'messiah' would come through his line. Poor Abe was in his 90's at the time. There was no mention by old YHVH that it was a health issue, but rather that it was a token of the covenant between Abraham and YHVH.

"You're my friend, to prove we're friends, please cut of a bit of your penis. Also cut off a bit of your son's penis and make every male in your lineage cut off a bit of their penis. Here's a nice sharp chunk of flint."

See, sounds just like YHVH, with friends like him... you're fucked.  :lulz:

I don't necessarily believe any of the Sumerian mythos and the modernizations by Sitchin, but the "Lost Book of Enki" or whatever seems to indicate that the first people made as workers by the Annunaki were notable in that they had reddish skin and that their members had a foreskin. Apparently the 'Nnaki did not.  It's a mark of servitude. 
So only the anteaters and women folk of our planet are truly able to be free. 

Personally had the choice made for me, but it's interesting to note that the process of "converting" to Judaism requires it.  Even if it's already happened there's still a special ceremony and a sacred needle. Seems that there must be blood to get in on the covenant.  I only know this because my mother converted a few years back and was adopted by an elderly and sweet old woman.  I was offered the opportunity to join and had this conversation for real.  I declined, but talk about a way to ensure the sincerity of interested parties!

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on August 29, 2012, 10:06:15 PM

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 29, 2012, 09:01:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Ironically, the Jewish tradition is because YHVH said it would separate Abraham's children from the rest of the world, since Abraham was his buddy and he had promised Abraham that the 'seed'/'messiah' would come through his line. Poor Abe was in his 90's at the time. There was no mention by old YHVH that it was a health issue, but rather that it was a token of the covenant between Abraham and YHVH.

"You're my friend, to prove we're friends, please cut of a bit of your penis. Also cut off a bit of your son's penis and make every male in your lineage cut off a bit of their penis. Here's a nice sharp chunk of flint."

See, sounds just like YHVH, with friends like him... you're fucked.  :lulz:

I don't necessarily believe any of the Sumerian mythos and the modernizations by Sitchin, but the "Lost Book of Enki" or whatever seems to indicate that the first people made as workers by the Annunaki were notable in that they had reddish skin and that their members had a foreskin. Apparently the 'Nnaki did not.  It's a mark of servitude. 
So only the anteaters and women folk of our planet are truly able to be free. 

Personally had the choice made for me, but it's interesting to note that the process of "converting" to Judaism requires it.  Even if it's already happened there's still a special ceremony and a sacred needle. Seems that there must be blood to get in on the covenant.  I only know this because my mother converted a few years back and was adopted by an elderly and sweet old woman.  I was offered the opportunity to join and had this conversation for real.  I declined, but talk about a way to ensure the sincerity of interested parties!

now that you put it that way, missionaries are just trying to export freedom

there was this thing about having a special connection to god if you were an eunuch, wonder why that idea never really caught on?

The spread of circumcision to americans (not westerners. Americans) as i understand it is due to the us military getting infections from :drumroll: not bathing and screwing french hookers. Having something happen to your dick is mentally traumatizing. I can see how they would blame the foreskin as being dirty instead of blaming themselves for being dirty.

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 10:21:37 PM

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on August 29, 2012, 10:06:15 PM

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 29, 2012, 09:01:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Ironically, the Jewish tradition is because YHVH said it would separate Abraham's children from the rest of the world, since Abraham was his buddy and he had promised Abraham that the 'seed'/'messiah' would come through his line. Poor Abe was in his 90's at the time. There was no mention by old YHVH that it was a health issue, but rather that it was a token of the covenant between Abraham and YHVH.

"You're my friend, to prove we're friends, please cut of a bit of your penis. Also cut off a bit of your son's penis and make every male in your lineage cut off a bit of their penis. Here's a nice sharp chunk of flint."

See, sounds just like YHVH, with friends like him... you're fucked.  :lulz:

I don't necessarily believe any of the Sumerian mythos and the modernizations by Sitchin, but the "Lost Book of Enki" or whatever seems to indicate that the first people made as workers by the Annunaki were notable in that they had reddish skin and that their members had a foreskin. Apparently the 'Nnaki did not.  It's a mark of servitude. 
So only the anteaters and women folk of our planet are truly able to be free. 

Personally had the choice made for me, but it's interesting to note that the process of "converting" to Judaism requires it.  Even if it's already happened there's still a special ceremony and a sacred needle. Seems that there must be blood to get in on the covenant.  I only know this because my mother converted a few years back and was adopted by an elderly and sweet old woman.  I was offered the opportunity to join and had this conversation for real.  I declined, but talk about a way to ensure the sincerity of interested parties!

now that you put it that way, missionaries are just trying to export freedom

there was this thing about having a special connection to god if you were an eunuch, wonder why that idea never really caught on?

Ahem .. catholic priests? Okay so they don't get surgical but it's pretty much the same thing.

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 29, 2012, 10:35:16 PM

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 10:21:37 PM

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on August 29, 2012, 10:06:15 PM

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 29, 2012, 09:01:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Ironically, the Jewish tradition is because YHVH said it would separate Abraham's children from the rest of the world, since Abraham was his buddy and he had promised Abraham that the 'seed'/'messiah' would come through his line. Poor Abe was in his 90's at the time. There was no mention by old YHVH that it was a health issue, but rather that it was a token of the covenant between Abraham and YHVH.

"You're my friend, to prove we're friends, please cut of a bit of your penis. Also cut off a bit of your son's penis and make every male in your lineage cut off a bit of their penis. Here's a nice sharp chunk of flint."

See, sounds just like YHVH, with friends like him... you're fucked.  :lulz:

I don't necessarily believe any of the Sumerian mythos and the modernizations by Sitchin, but the "Lost Book of Enki" or whatever seems to indicate that the first people made as workers by the Annunaki were notable in that they had reddish skin and that their members had a foreskin. Apparently the 'Nnaki did not.  It's a mark of servitude. 
So only the anteaters and women folk of our planet are truly able to be free. 

Personally had the choice made for me, but it's interesting to note that the process of "converting" to Judaism requires it.  Even if it's already happened there's still a special ceremony and a sacred needle. Seems that there must be blood to get in on the covenant.  I only know this because my mother converted a few years back and was adopted by an elderly and sweet old woman.  I was offered the opportunity to join and had this conversation for real.  I declined, but talk about a way to ensure the sincerity of interested parties!

now that you put it that way, missionaries are just trying to export freedom

there was this thing about having a special connection to god if you were an eunuch, wonder why that idea never really caught on?

Ahem .. catholic priests? Okay so they don't get surgical but it's pretty much the same thing.

Wait... eunuchs rape altar boys?

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 10:36:52 PM

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 29, 2012, 10:35:16 PM

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 10:21:37 PM

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on August 29, 2012, 10:06:15 PM

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 29, 2012, 09:01:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Ironically, the Jewish tradition is because YHVH said it would separate Abraham's children from the rest of the world, since Abraham was his buddy and he had promised Abraham that the 'seed'/'messiah' would come through his line. Poor Abe was in his 90's at the time. There was no mention by old YHVH that it was a health issue, but rather that it was a token of the covenant between Abraham and YHVH.

"You're my friend, to prove we're friends, please cut of a bit of your penis. Also cut off a bit of your son's penis and make every male in your lineage cut off a bit of their penis. Here's a nice sharp chunk of flint."

See, sounds just like YHVH, with friends like him... you're fucked.  :lulz:

I don't necessarily believe any of the Sumerian mythos and the modernizations by Sitchin, but the "Lost Book of Enki" or whatever seems to indicate that the first people made as workers by the Annunaki were notable in that they had reddish skin and that their members had a foreskin. Apparently the 'Nnaki did not.  It's a mark of servitude. 
So only the anteaters and women folk of our planet are truly able to be free. 

Personally had the choice made for me, but it's interesting to note that the process of "converting" to Judaism requires it.  Even if it's already happened there's still a special ceremony and a sacred needle. Seems that there must be blood to get in on the covenant.  I only know this because my mother converted a few years back and was adopted by an elderly and sweet old woman.  I was offered the opportunity to join and had this conversation for real.  I declined, but talk about a way to ensure the sincerity of interested parties!

now that you put it that way, missionaries are just trying to export freedom

there was this thing about having a special connection to god if you were an eunuch, wonder why that idea never really caught on?

Ahem .. catholic priests? Okay so they don't get surgical but it's pretty much the same thing.

Wait... eunuchs rape altar boys?

They do if you leave their junk attached  :lulz:

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 29, 2012, 10:35:16 PM

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 10:21:37 PM

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on August 29, 2012, 10:06:15 PM

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 29, 2012, 09:01:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Ironically, the Jewish tradition is because YHVH said it would separate Abraham's children from the rest of the world, since Abraham was his buddy and he had promised Abraham that the 'seed'/'messiah' would come through his line. Poor Abe was in his 90's at the time. There was no mention by old YHVH that it was a health issue, but rather that it was a token of the covenant between Abraham and YHVH.

"You're my friend, to prove we're friends, please cut of a bit of your penis. Also cut off a bit of your son's penis and make every male in your lineage cut off a bit of their penis. Here's a nice sharp chunk of flint."

See, sounds just like YHVH, with friends like him... you're fucked.  :lulz:

I don't necessarily believe any of the Sumerian mythos and the modernizations by Sitchin, but the "Lost Book of Enki" or whatever seems to indicate that the first people made as workers by the Annunaki were notable in that they had reddish skin and that their members had a foreskin. Apparently the 'Nnaki did not.  It's a mark of servitude. 
So only the anteaters and women folk of our planet are truly able to be free. 

Personally had the choice made for me, but it's interesting to note that the process of "converting" to Judaism requires it.  Even if it's already happened there's still a special ceremony and a sacred needle. Seems that there must be blood to get in on the covenant.  I only know this because my mother converted a few years back and was adopted by an elderly and sweet old woman.  I was offered the opportunity to join and had this conversation for real.  I declined, but talk about a way to ensure the sincerity of interested parties!

now that you put it that way, missionaries are just trying to export freedom

there was this thing about having a special connection to god if you were an eunuch, wonder why that idea never really caught on?

Ahem .. catholic priests? Okay so they don't get surgical but it's pretty much the same thing.

The Catholics use the comment by Paul that basically says 'if you HAVE to get married, that's cool... but you can spend so much more focus on the LORD if you don't bother with those troublesome women" o something to that effect. Its interesting to note, though, that the criteria for picking Leaders in the first century, according to the Bible included the comment "Husband of one wife".

But ya know... the Catholics have all sorts of dogma that's based on Church tradition instead of the Bible... Peter (the so-called first pope) had a mother in law, so one would assume he had a wife. Either that, or he just told Jesus it was his mother in law so she'd get a free healing.

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 29, 2012, 10:43:58 PM

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 29, 2012, 10:35:16 PM

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 10:21:37 PM

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on August 29, 2012, 10:06:15 PM

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 29, 2012, 09:01:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Ironically, the Jewish tradition is because YHVH said it would separate Abraham's children from the rest of the world, since Abraham was his buddy and he had promised Abraham that the 'seed'/'messiah' would come through his line. Poor Abe was in his 90's at the time. There was no mention by old YHVH that it was a health issue, but rather that it was a token of the covenant between Abraham and YHVH.

"You're my friend, to prove we're friends, please cut of a bit of your penis. Also cut off a bit of your son's penis and make every male in your lineage cut off a bit of their penis. Here's a nice sharp chunk of flint."

See, sounds just like YHVH, with friends like him... you're fucked.  :lulz:

I don't necessarily believe any of the Sumerian mythos and the modernizations by Sitchin, but the "Lost Book of Enki" or whatever seems to indicate that the first people made as workers by the Annunaki were notable in that they had reddish skin and that their members had a foreskin. Apparently the 'Nnaki did not.  It's a mark of servitude. 
So only the anteaters and women folk of our planet are truly able to be free. 

Personally had the choice made for me, but it's interesting to note that the process of "converting" to Judaism requires it.  Even if it's already happened there's still a special ceremony and a sacred needle. Seems that there must be blood to get in on the covenant.  I only know this because my mother converted a few years back and was adopted by an elderly and sweet old woman.  I was offered the opportunity to join and had this conversation for real.  I declined, but talk about a way to ensure the sincerity of interested parties!

now that you put it that way, missionaries are just trying to export freedom

there was this thing about having a special connection to god if you were an eunuch, wonder why that idea never really caught on?

Ahem .. catholic priests? Okay so they don't get surgical but it's pretty much the same thing.

The Catholics use the comment by Paul that basically says 'if you HAVE to get married, that's cool... but you can spend so much more focus on the LORD if you don't bother with those troublesome women" o something to that effect. Its interesting to note, though, that the criteria for picking Leaders in the first century, according to the Bible included the comment "Husband of one wife".

But ya know... the Catholics have all sorts of dogma that's based on Church tradition instead of the Bible... Peter (the so-called first pope) had a mother in law, so one would assume he had a wife. Either that, or he just told Jesus it was his mother in law so she'd get a free healing.

Fortunately for christianity in general, reading comprehension skills are not a prerequisite otherwise, well, pretty much every verse of the bible?  :fnord:

My understanding of why it became the cultural norm in America is that it stems from a time when most children were not born in hospitals. Since circumcision was performed by a doctor and meant you were able to afford a hospital birth, it became a class indicator and, like many other class indicators, was quickly adopted by people who didn't want their neighbors to think they were one of those poor folk who had to plop the baby out into the washtub.

As for my personal opinion on it, I think that performing circumcisions on infants for whom it is not medically necessary is a goddamn abomination. How about I come cut part of YOUR dick off and don't give you a choice in the matter?

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 29, 2012, 11:17:55 PM
My understanding of why it became the cultural norm in America is that it stems from a time when most children were not born in hospitals. Since circumcision was performed by a doctor and meant you were able to afford a hospital birth, it became a class indicator and, like many other class indicators, was quickly adopted by people who didn't want their neighbors to think they were one of those poor folk who had to plop the baby out into the washtub.

I just had this image of the Astors walking around with their johnsons hanging out, to show off.

Quote from: East Coast Hustle on August 29, 2012, 11:17:55 PMAs for my personal opinion on it, I think that performing circumcisions on infants for whom it is not medically necessary is a goddamn abomination. How about I come cut part of YOUR dick off and don't give you a choice in the matter?

Just think of it as preparing them for the free market.

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 29, 2012, 10:39:21 PM

Quote from: v3x on August 29, 2012, 10:36:52 PM

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 29, 2012, 10:35:16 PM

Quote from: Joh'Nyx on August 29, 2012, 10:21:37 PM

Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on August 29, 2012, 10:06:15 PM

Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 29, 2012, 09:01:30 PM

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 29, 2012, 08:33:31 PM
I often wonder how the human race survived before circumcision.

And if it IS divinely mandated, what's God trying to say?  "Oh, sorry, there was a bit of a gap in the mold, and you'll have to cut the flash off the product."

Ironically, the Jewish tradition is because YHVH said it would separate Abraham's children from the rest of the world, since Abraham was his buddy and he had promised Abraham that the 'seed'/'messiah' would come through his line. Poor Abe was in his 90's at the time. There was no mention by old YHVH that it was a health issue, but rather that it was a token of the covenant between Abraham and YHVH.

"You're my friend, to prove we're friends, please cut of a bit of your penis. Also cut off a bit of your son's penis and make every male in your lineage cut off a bit of their penis. Here's a nice sharp chunk of flint."

See, sounds just like YHVH, with friends like him... you're fucked.  :lulz:

I don't necessarily believe any of the Sumerian mythos and the modernizations by Sitchin, but the "Lost Book of Enki" or whatever seems to indicate that the first people made as workers by the Annunaki were notable in that they had reddish skin and that their members had a foreskin. Apparently the 'Nnaki did not.  It's a mark of servitude. 
So only the anteaters and women folk of our planet are truly able to be free. 

Personally had the choice made for me, but it's interesting to note that the process of "converting" to Judaism requires it.  Even if it's already happened there's still a special ceremony and a sacred needle. Seems that there must be blood to get in on the covenant.  I only know this because my mother converted a few years back and was adopted by an elderly and sweet old woman.  I was offered the opportunity to join and had this conversation for real.  I declined, but talk about a way to ensure the sincerity of interested parties!

now that you put it that way, missionaries are just trying to export freedom

there was this thing about having a special connection to god if you were an eunuch, wonder why that idea never really caught on?

Ahem .. catholic priests? Okay so they don't get surgical but it's pretty much the same thing.

Wait... eunuchs rape altar boys?

They do if you leave their junk attached  :lulz:

Or find a suitable prosthesis...  :horrormirth: