I've been saying this for about the last two years. Elements within the USA and in Mexico are backing the Sinaloa Cartel in Mexico's "Drug War" against the other factions, cartels and gangs fighting for control of the border crossings and transit/distribution networks in Mexico.
Evidence comes in the form of a comment by a high-ranking member of the Sinaloa Cartel, whose story is corroborated by an email from a Stratfor source, leaked online several months ago as part of the "Global Intelligence Files".
MX1, a Mexican intelligence agent detailed with fighting the cartels on the US side of the border, was revealed by Stratfor emails to be Fernando de la Mora, operating under diplomatic cover in the Mexican consulate in Phoenix (he was previously in a similar role in El Paso, Texas).
MX1 liased with American law enforcement and intelligence personnel on the drug issue, of course, and was present at a secret summit in Fort Bliss, Texas, to discuss how to improve communication between the US, Mexican intelligence assets and enforcement, the military etc. In a particular email sent by MX1, he details how the Mexican government generally deals with the cartels:
QuoteThe Mexican strategy is not to negotiate directly.
In any event, "negotiations" would take place as follows:
Assuming a non-disputed plaza [a major drug market, such as Ciudad Juarez]:
• [If] they [a big narco-trafficking group] bring [in] some drugs, transport some drugs, [and] they are discrete, they don't bother anyone, [then] no one gets hurt;
• [And the] government turns the other way.
• [If] they [the narco-traffickers] kill someone or do something violent, [then the] government responds by taking down [the] drug network or making arrests.
(Now, assuming a disputed plaza:)
• [A narco-trafficking] group comes [into a plaza], [then the] government waits to see how dominant cartel responds.
• If [the] dominant cartel fights them [the new narco-trafficking group], [then the] government takes them down.
• If [the] dominant cartel is allied [with the new group], no problem.
• If [a new] group comes in and start(s) committing violence, they get taken down: first by the government letting the dominant cartel do their thing, then [by] punishing both cartels.
But then he describes what he sees as a different strategy from the Americans:
Quote... This is how "negotiations" take place with cartels, through signals. There are no meetings, etc. ...
So, the MX [Mexican] strategy is not to negotiate. However, I think the US [recently] sent a signal that could be construed as follows:
"To the VCF [the Vicente Carrillo Fuentes] and Sinaloa cartels: Thank you for providing our market with drugs over the years. We are now concerned about your perpetration of violence, and would like to see you stop that. In this regard, please know that Sinaloa is bigger and better than [the] VCF. Also note that CDJ [Juarez] is very important to us, as is the whole border. In this light, please talk amongst yourselves and lets all get back to business. Again, we recognize that Sinaloa is bigger and better, so either VCF gets in line or we will mess you up."
I don't know what the US strategy is, but I can tell you that if the message was understood by Sinaloa and VCF as I described above, the Mexican government would not be opposed at all.
In sum, I have a gut feeling that the US agencies tried to send a signal telling the cartels to negotiate themselves. They unilaterally declared a winner [the Sinaloa Cartel], and this is unprecedented, and deserves analysis. If there was no strategy behind this, and it was simply a leaked report, then I will be interested to see how it plays out in the coming months.
In another email, MX1 notes:
QuoteWe believe that when the US made an announcement that was corroborated by several federal spokespersons simultaneously (that Sinaloa controlled CDJ [Juarez]), it was a message that the DEA wanted to send to Sinaloa. The message was that the US recognized Sinaloa's dominance in the area [Juarez], although it was not absolute. It was meant to be read by the cartels as a sort of ultimatum: negotiate and put your house in order once and for all.
One dissenting analyst thinks that the message is the opposite, telling Sinaloa to take what it had and to leave what remains of VCF. Regardless, the reports are saying that the US message to the cartels was to negotiate and stop the violence. It says that the US has never before pronounced that a cartel controls a particular plaza, so it is an unusual event.
Note, these are the assessments of a Mexican intelligence officer, the equivalent to MI6 or the CIA. Furthermore, MX1 isn't just any Mexican spy, he was hand picked, to be the "tip of the spear" of the Mexican efforts against the cartels in the USA. In other words he's a very serious and credible person.
So when Jesus Vicente Zambada Niebla, a senior trafficker for said Sinaloa Cartel, currently being held in Chicago awaiting trial, says there was a deal between the USA and the Sinaloa Cartel, and that deal reads suspiciously like the one outlined by a high ranking Mexican intelligence officer...well then, you have to start questioning just how much validity that proposition has.
And lest anyone has forgotten, some of the guns that "walked" during the "Fast and Furious" operation ended up in the homes of Sinaloa Cartel members. How perfectly coincidental.
Strange to finally see it all in print. Great find, Cain.
Good find, very interesting.
What are the chances this will end up making the situation much worse? By the announcement of one cartel to be the "Dominant" one, surely you increase the chances of violence in the short term when this is inevitably disputed?
What form are these "Signals" likely to take? I doubt that level of discourse occurs through semaphore.
Essentially, you are taking control of a situation by proxy. No one in their right mind is going to cross the big dog. By stating that you recognise the boss of a territory at the same time as saying you're not happy with how business is being run in said territory, you're implying that, if shit doesn't sort itself out, you'll be handing out a slapping. Again implicit is the fact that the slapping will be dropped on the boss. At this point it becomes in all the players best interests to keep their heads down.
I've seen this done on a much smaller scale and it's 110% effective, given that the one handing out the slappings is respected enough. If I was a columbian cartel and the US govt was threatening me with a slapping, I think I'd be inclined to fall in line.
Lets also keep in mind what the US stands to gain from managing rather than defeating the Cartels - nothing less than 1.5% of the global GDP, much of which goes into shoring up the increasingly shaky global financial system. Banks profit tremendously off of the drug trade. Wells Fargo comes to mind, as does HSBC.
By getting the cartels to focus on trading, not fighting, the US causes greater capital flows into the global banking system.
This game is being played on so many levels it's hard to keep track.
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 11, 2012, 08:23:42 PM
Good find, very interesting.
What are the chances this will end up making the situation much worse? By the announcement of one cartel to be the "Dominant" one, surely you increase the chances of violence in the short term when this is inevitably disputed?
What form are these "Signals" likely to take? I doubt that level of discourse occurs through semaphore.
Well, as explained above, it is not really in the USA's financial interest to defeat the cartels, in the short term. So long as the violence is kept at a manageable level, and the money keeps being laundered in US banks, then all is good. When the violence gets out of control, it affects business, and that is when the US and Mexican governments intervene.
As for the signals, I can imagine a number of forms. Press statements, leaked to journalists, about who controls what territory, who to deal with. Covert channels of communication between corrupt officials and cartel leaders. Perhaps even direct intelligence officer to cartel leader talks, though that strikes me as unlikely. It's more implied and hinted at than outright stated.
Quote from: Cain on September 11, 2012, 09:11:53 PM
Lets also keep in mind what the US stands to gain from managing rather than defeating the Cartels - nothing less than 1.5% of the global GDP, much of which goes into shoring up the increasingly shaky global financial system. Banks profit tremendously off of the drug trade. Wells Fargo comes to mind, as does HSBC.
By getting the cartels to focus on trading, not fighting, the US causes greater capital flows into the global banking system.
This game is being played on so many levels it's hard to keep track.
This comes as no surprise at all. Gives a whole new meaning to F&F.
Appreciate the clarifications, it's strange to me.
The implicit acknowledgement of this as a financial exercise is odd. It seems like some curious cold war where both sides cause misery to innocents. Only one side seems be be making rather forceful threats. I imagine any unilateral action in mexico would be followed by a PR barrage to confuse the situation and portray everyone as informed.
Given that shit always gets worse, when can we expect to see US troops cross/close the border?
US Special Forces are already operating in Mexico.
As for closing the border....never. The financial implications (not just drugs/banks, think illegal immigration, which is its own massive industry, from their employment to the privatized jails they are sent to) would devastate the US.
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 11, 2012, 10:54:29 PM
Appreciate the clarifications, it's strange to me.
The implicit acknowledgement of this as a financial exercise is odd. It seems like some curious cold war where both sides cause misery to innocents. Only one side seems be be making rather forceful threats. I imagine any unilateral action in mexico would be followed by a PR barrage to confuse the situation and portray everyone as informed.
Given that shit always gets worse, when can we expect to see US troops cross/close the border?
Never. There's money to be made.
Important shit, and well put together. Thanks Cain.
Bump:
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-us-government-and-the-sinaloa-cartel-2014-1
QuoteAn investigation by El Universal has found that between 2000 and 2012, the U.S. government had an agreement with Mexico's Sinaloa drug cartel that allowed the organisation to smuggle billions of dollars of drugs in exchange for information on rival cartels.
Sinaloa, led by Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman, supplies 80% of the drugs entering the Chicago area and has a presence in cities across the U.S.
There have long been allegations that Guzman, considered the "world's most powerful drug trafficker," coordinates with American authorities.
But the El Universal investigation is the first to publish court documents that include corroborating testimony from a DEA agent and a Justice Department official.
The written statements were made to the U.S. District Court in Chicago in relation to the arrest of Jesus Vicente Zambada-Niebla, the son of Sinaloa leader Ismael "El Mayo" Zambada and allegedly the Sinaloa cartel's "logistics coordinator."
Thanks, Cain. I was able to read all that and not get confused, which is what normally happens when faced with multi-level conspiracies.
Doesn't MX1 now have a much shorter expected lifespan since his real name has been revealed?
As far as I know, he's pretty safe. I mean, it's not like he's actively trying to hinder the Sinaloa....in fact, I strongly suspect the Mexican government have a similar deal.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on September 11, 2012, 08:51:46 PM
Essentially, you are taking control of a situation by proxy. No one in their right mind is going to cross the big dog. By stating that you recognise the boss of a territory at the same time as saying you're not happy with how business is being run in said territory, you're implying that, if shit doesn't sort itself out, you'll be handing out a slapping. Again implicit is the fact that the slapping will be dropped on the boss. At this point it becomes in all the players best interests to keep their heads down.
I've seen this done on a much smaller scale and it's 110% effective, given that the one handing out the slappings is respected enough. If I was a columbian cartel and the US govt was threatening me with a slapping, I think I'd be inclined to fall in line.
I was going to say, this is very similar to how I tend to run a kitchen. :lulz:
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on January 14, 2014, 06:42:37 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on September 11, 2012, 08:51:46 PM
Essentially, you are taking control of a situation by proxy. No one in their right mind is going to cross the big dog. By stating that you recognise the boss of a territory at the same time as saying you're not happy with how business is being run in said territory, you're implying that, if shit doesn't sort itself out, you'll be handing out a slapping. Again implicit is the fact that the slapping will be dropped on the boss. At this point it becomes in all the players best interests to keep their heads down.
I've seen this done on a much smaller scale and it's 110% effective, given that the one handing out the slappings is respected enough. If I was a columbian cartel and the US govt was threatening me with a slapping, I think I'd be inclined to fall in line.
I was going to say, this is very similar to how I tend to run a kitchen. :lulz:
:mittens:
Well, new president, perhaps new deal... cartels got violent when PAN got to power, because government started siding with a specific Cartel and that offset the balance of power, plazas and delimitated and stable territories. This happned 13 years ago, due to 2 consecutive PAN presidency, which are real politik noobies...
PRI used to be always the victor of elections (by fraud, assasination, etc) but even as a one party system, perhaps it was better... they were the sole rulers, so they didnt have to split the loot of the countries riches between so many hands, so it was easier to keep the beast well fed (now we have a monstruous bureaucracy)... also, they had all the connections and power, thus, intricate negotiations could be made that didnt depend so much on inter party politics and the whim of the moment... PRI also arent religious zealots (WELL at least by comparison, theres a difference between PRI that would pay for the Popes visit, but PANs Fox kneeled and kissed the Popes hand, literally)
Quote
my father-in-law: If I was president, I'd just march the Army down there and kick all their asses. That would shut'em up. 'Murrica! But you don't see that lily-livered pansy Obama doing it.
me: Yeah that's a great idea. We could totally take those guys out.
F-I-L: No kidding! I dunno why they let that low-level civil war just go on forever down there. 'Murrica to the rescue!
me: Seriously. I bet we'd kick at least as much ass as we did in Korea and Vietnam, and it's right next door! What could go wrong?
F-I-L: Shut up.
Quote from: V3X on January 14, 2014, 10:17:19 PM
Quote
my father-in-law: If I was president, I'd just march the Army down there and kick all their asses. That would shut'em up. 'Murrica! But you don't see that lily-livered pansy Obama doing it.
me: Yeah that's a great idea. We could totally take those guys out.
F-I-L: No kidding! I dunno why they let that low-level civil war just go on forever down there. 'Murrica to the rescue!
me: Seriously. I bet we'd kick at least as much ass as we did in Korea and Vietnam, and it's right next door! What could go wrong?
F-I-L: Shut up.
:lulz:
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-mexico-michoacan-20140113,0,163208.story
Cain, odd are pretty good that at least some of these "self-help" vigilante groups are Sinaola soldiers, right?
Quote from: Telarus on January 15, 2014, 12:58:53 AM
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-mexico-michoacan-20140113,0,163208.story
Cain, odd are pretty good that at least some of these "self-help" vigilante groups are Sinaola soldiers, right?
Glad you asked. I was wanting Cain's take on that when I read about it a couple of days ago.
Quote from: Telarus on January 15, 2014, 12:58:53 AM
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-mexico-michoacan-20140113,0,163208.story
Cain, odd are pretty good that at least some of these "self-help" vigilante groups are Sinaola soldiers, right?
hear ye, hear ye!
http://alainet.org/active/69863 (http://alainet.org/active/69863)
Quote from: The Johnny on January 14, 2014, 08:33:04 PM
Well, new president, perhaps new deal...
Perhaps, but I'm leaning towards "meet the new boss, same as the old boss (http://www.madcowprod.com/2012/08/10/mexican-president-facebookfriends-sinaloa-cartel-lieutenant/)".
I've been reading Annabel Hernandez's book on the cartel over the past couple of months (which is, IMO,
very good), and the situation she describes does not seem to be limited to party lines. Despite the apparent liberalization and opening of Mexico's political party power structure, personal access to the cartels remains a shortcut to influence in a political career. and the cartels wont turn away somone they can later blackmail for influence should the situation require it.
Which is, in fact, probably part of the problem, as it means the cartels are drawn into state power struggles. Back in the day, when the PRI really ruled the roost, the cartels had to pay their taxes to operate, just like everyone else. The state took a cut, and promised not to interfere. Of course, both the Mexican state and the cartels were a lot more cohesive back then.
Quote from: Telarus on January 15, 2014, 12:58:53 AM
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-mexico-michoacan-20140113,0,163208.story
Cain, odd are pretty good that at least some of these "self-help" vigilante groups are Sinaola soldiers, right?
I haven't read the article Johnny posted, and I honestly don't know much about them, but my guess is while some may be, the majority are not. Not least because the Mexican state are actually disarming them, whereas if they were Sinaloa surrogates, they might organise them into AUC-style deathsquads.
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on January 14, 2014, 06:42:37 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on September 11, 2012, 08:51:46 PM
Essentially, you are taking control of a situation by proxy. No one in their right mind is going to cross the big dog. By stating that you recognise the boss of a territory at the same time as saying you're not happy with how business is being run in said territory, you're implying that, if shit doesn't sort itself out, you'll be handing out a slapping. Again implicit is the fact that the slapping will be dropped on the boss. At this point it becomes in all the players best interests to keep their heads down.
I've seen this done on a much smaller scale and it's 110% effective, given that the one handing out the slappings is respected enough. If I was a columbian cartel and the US govt was threatening me with a slapping, I think I'd be inclined to fall in line.
I was going to say, this is very similar to how I tend to run a kitchen. :lulz:
I learned it when I was employed in the distribution industry but I believe it's pretty much universal :lulz:
Quote from: Cain on January 15, 2014, 11:24:24 AM
Quote from: Telarus on January 15, 2014, 12:58:53 AM
http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-mexico-michoacan-20140113,0,163208.story
Cain, odd are pretty good that at least some of these "self-help" vigilante groups are Sinaola soldiers, right?
I haven't read the article Johnny posted, and I honestly don't know much about them, but my guess is while some may be, the majority are not. Not least because the Mexican state are actually disarming them, whereas if they were Sinaloa surrogates, they might organise them into AUC-style deathsquads.
Thanks, this lines up with what I've been thinking (that a minority may be, but most are locals) after reading up on the local situation a bit & my roommate noting the era of, & maintenance state of, the weapons that the vigilante groups are carrying.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-25774430
Edited...
Just digging into this for something to do:
http://hngwiusa.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/mexican-federal-government-suspends-disarmament-of-michoacan-civilian-self-defense-security-forces/
QuoteLa Ruana, Michoacán – The Mexican federal government on Tuesday agreed to suspend the disarmament of the Michoacán Civilian Self-defense Security Forces (MCSSF) until a later date, according to Hípolito Mora, one of the leaders of the MCSSF in La Ruana...
...Mora confirmed, that the Mexican federal government has agreed to suspend the disarmament of the MCSSF until a later date.
And this nasty little thought from the NY times:
QuoteThe self-defense group, armed with automatic rifles and police-style pickups that it said had been seized from the gang, swept in. The group denied suggestions by some in the government that it represented another gang, the New Generation, but when questioned about how ordinary farmers could disarm vicious and hardened criminals, members declined to discuss tactics.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/16/world/americas/a-quandary-for-mexico-as-vigilantes-rise.html?_r=0
Damned if I know.
:fnord:
Looks like they kidnapped the leader of the Autodefensas and dragged him off to Mexico City to discuss terms. In the meantime, the army are simultaneously disarming and rearming the Autodefensas groups.
This could indicate the army are corrupt and some units are using this as a chance to make some money. Or, more worryingly, the army is sorting through the trustworthy and untrustworthy autodefensas groups from their POV, and arming the ones they want to act as their proxies in the region.
This could be the start of Mexican death squads, a la the Autodefensas Unidas de Colombia.
Is there any reason it couldn't be a combination of both? I wouldn't be shocked if we later learn that some are being armed by corrupt elements and others armed by political motivations leading to an almighty clusterfuck. For some reason that seems very plausible to me.
Army's generally look down on people making a profit selling things belonging to them. There might be small scale selling of handguns and things, but the Mexican Army is a fairly professional body, and selling without sanction is a big no-no.
So, what have we here?
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexicos-vigilantes-legalized-and-put-under-military-umbrella/
Sounds like it's just another gang joining the fray, put could it be a puppet for government forces?
Wow. This is why I rarely post in this subforum. I sound like an idiot.
They're being repurposed into auxilary government death squads.
Fantastic! In the name of populist nationalism, I suppose.
@ LMNO...What I've got so far...
Either the Feds could have co-opted the vigilantes or they could have demanded the vigilantes demobilize.
If the feds kept pressing for the latter the vigilantes would have (and did) politely refuse, though it would not have stayed polite.
If the vigilantes disarm anytime soon the templarios will start slaughtering vigilantes.
If the feds had chosen to push for disarmament they would have got a state in revolt instead?
...It's not as if the federal Mexican government is terribly popular now, and I'd guess that putting the vigilantes down would not be a popular action.
As for them becoming paramilitary death squads? I dunno.
Cain's the predictions guy.
The Johnny lives in Mexico, right? I'm kind of curious as to what most people in Mexico are thinking about all this.
The military mobilized against the vigilantes, killing couple guys, a woman and a child... this was about a month ago if my timeline isnt too off... the purpose was to demobilize, but this created a lot of negative perception towards the government, in which it seemed monstrous for them to demobilize them when they were actually doing progress (which the military had not)... I see it as a heavy handed move to keep a semblance of "ILL SHOW THEM WHOS BOSS" from the government.
As for them being coopted into being paramilitary deathsquads? and their pros and cons? Everything went sour 13 years ago when the trading agreements got broken and some cartels got special favours... then 7 years ago the fight for plazas and territory really kicked in.
So how is one to keep things under control, when things got so out of hand, and theres too many corrupt interests (and geo-political) for legalization to be viable?
Things are kind of grim when death squads start to seem like a good idea.
Quote from: The Johnny on January 29, 2014, 03:48:13 AM
Things are kind of grim when death squads start to seem like a good idea.
Johnny is awarded the Understatement of the Year award. Apologies that it's happening in your own country.
Quote from: The Johnny on January 29, 2014, 03:48:13 AM
The military mobilized against the vigilantes, killing couple guys, a woman and a child... this was about a month ago if my timeline isnt too off...
I read there were 2 deaths. Thanks for clarifications and such.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 29, 2014, 04:12:08 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on January 29, 2014, 03:48:13 AM
Things are kind of grim when death squads start to seem like a good idea.
Johnny is awarded the Understatement of the Year award. Apologies that it's happening in your own country.
Same from myself.
Well, RWHN finally shut up for some reason, so that's a start; and yeah, although its happening in my country, im not directly affected by it, so that's something - but i will say that living in the Federal District is just one of a couple of safe cities.
Im curious how everything will shape up with the new administration, too early to tell.
Quote from: The Johnny on January 29, 2014, 08:18:36 AM
Well, RWHN finally shut up for some reason, so that's a start;
It's a start. There are still too many True Believers™ in congress, though.
Related:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-25972790
QuoteMexican security forces say they have arrested one of the leaders of the Jalisco New Generation drug cartel.
Ruben Oseguera Gonzalez, known as El Menchito, is believed to be the second-in-command in the criminal organisation led by his father.
He was arrested in a major operation that involved dozens of soldiers.
The New Generation cartel is involved in large-scale drug trafficking along Mexico's Pacific Coast.
It is said to work together with the Sinaloa cartel, led by the most wanted man in Mexico, Joaquin 'Shorty' Guzman.
Also recently:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-25921971
QuoteMexican forces have captured one of the country's most wanted drug lords, officials say.
Dionicio Loya Plancarte, known as El Tio (The Uncle), was one of the leaders of the Knights Templar drug cartel in western Michoacan state, officials say.
The government had a 30m-peso ($2.2m; £1.3m) bounty on his head for drug and money-laundering crimes.
Troops were deployed to Michoacan earlier this month after vigilantes clashed with gang members.
It's looks like some people have been getting very high quality intel of late. I wonder where from?
Related:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-26112067
QuoteMexican vigilante groups have paraded through a stronghold of the Knights Templar drug cartel in the troubled state of Michoacan.
The vigilantes had driven into Apatzingan on Saturday, backed by armoured vehicles and troops.
On Sunday, they drove round the town shouting slogans before convening at the city's main square.
QuoteHundreds of vigilantes, backed up by armoured vehicles and troops, had set up roadblocks around the western city before entering it on Saturday.
Tens of people have been detained on suspicion of working for the cartel by police and vigilante forces.
"I consider it a triumph, a triumph to be able to be here in Apatzingan," said one leader, Hipolito Mora.
"Many thought it was impossible. Thank God they were wrong and we are here. I feel calm."
I've got a horrible feeling that this will build up to something spectacular.
TL;DR but has anyone even mentioned operation fast and furious? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal and how at least one american has been killed by guns illegally sent to mexican cartels under eric holder's direct orders?
:lulz:
Yeah.
One guy.
:lulz: :lulz:
This guy is an expert on EVERYTHING. :lulz:
The best part is...well, look at the end of the very top post.
Quote from: Cain on March 04, 2014, 05:51:58 PM
The best part is...well, look at the end of the very top post.
Well, yeah. He said he couldn't be bothered reading anything.
True, but the irony was really amusing to me.
It's not a bad troll, really, although the "Incompetent Expert" troll is a little too formulaic if you ask me. It would probably work better in a forum that was a little less jaded.
Quote from: Nigel on March 04, 2014, 06:02:02 PM
It's not a bad troll, really, although the "Incompetent Expert" troll is a little too formulaic if you ask me. It would probably work better in a forum that was a little less jaded.
I honestly think he's been damaged by tumblr.
It explains his urge to be right in all things, and his surprise at the idea that rudeness is a poor opening strategy when meeting a new community.
And I don't think he's quite smart enough to be trolling, at least not in our sense of the word. I think he's a special special snowflake, who is enraged that we don't acknowledge his specialness.
I could be wrong, but that's how I'm going to treat him.
Quote from: Nigel on March 04, 2014, 06:02:02 PM
It's not a bad troll, really, although the "Incompetent Expert" troll is a little too formulaic if you ask me. It would probably work better in a forum that was a little less jaded.
Might have worked better if the board hadn't suffered an incompetent "Expert" for a good while. I'm surprised none of them have thought to try a drug thread.
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 04, 2014, 06:06:40 PM
Quote from: Nigel on March 04, 2014, 06:02:02 PM
It's not a bad troll, really, although the "Incompetent Expert" troll is a little too formulaic if you ask me. It would probably work better in a forum that was a little less jaded.
Might have worked better if the board hadn't suffered an incompetent "Expert" for a good while. I'm surprised none of them have thought to try a drug thread.
Kids these days are too lazy to troll properly. They won't even bother to mine a forum's history for hot spots, or bump old controversial threads.
I figured we were immune to drug threads now, given that there hasn't been one since WHN left.
I'd love to be proved wrong, tho, the odd drug thread meltdown is fun when it isn't being done to death on a daily basis
Who knows, a new and original point of view might emerge. Stranger things have happened. Not many, but I believe it to be possible, if unlikely.
Man, I'm so baked right now I doubt if I'd even notice...
BRB, SHOOTING UP.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 04, 2014, 06:21:00 PM
I figured we were immune to drug threads now, given that there hasn't been one since WHN left.
I'd love to be proved wrong, tho, the odd drug thread meltdown is fun when it isn't being done to death on a daily basis
Arguements where everyone is on the same side are no fun
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 04, 2014, 06:44:52 PM
Man, I'm so baked right now I doubt if I'd even notice...
BONG TRACKS UP AND DOWN YOUR ARMS.
GET A GRIP ON YOURSELF, MAN!
AND THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, IT'S LLAMAS EVERYWHERE, GORING YOU WITH THEIR HORNS.
Lest i forget to share: the leader of the self defense groups got detained yesterday for alleged exevution of his right hand man and burninb the corpse in a pick up truck, supposedly some stupid reason like power struggles, reeks of bullshit.
5 am, im out.
http://www.jornada.unam.mx/ultimas/2014/03/16/autodefensas-rompen-con-el-gobierno-lo-acusan-de-traicion-5595.html (http://www.jornada.unam.mx/ultimas/2014/03/16/autodefensas-rompen-con-el-gobierno-lo-acusan-de-traicion-5595.html)
QuoteMexico, DF. The self defense groups of the mexican state of Michoacan broke relations with the government accusing it of treason and affirmated that its a right of citizens to rise in arms in defense of institutions
...
Mireles questioned the detention of Hipólito Mora, founding leader of the self defenses, whom was arrested last week under accusations of participating in a double homicide and robbery alongside other crimes.
"A week ago the comissionate (federal for Michoacan) sat down with Hipolito and didnt know anything about denunciations, and three days later Hipolito is a delinquent" said Mireles. "They are now coming for us, the rest of us are next, they want to put us down, they want to aniquilate us" he said.
So, blargh.