Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Apple Talk => Topic started by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2012, 07:42:33 PM

Title: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2012, 07:42:33 PM
After the recent devastation, I just thought I'd get a few things out in the open, so that we can all learn to recognize the horrible smell of monkey ass, and perhaps avoid it in the future.  Please note that this is NOT a reaction to the recent feminism threads in particular, and applies equally to drug threads, mahdgickque threads, and even the libertarian bullshit.  But not to Captain Utopia or Babylon Horuv  threads, which didn't get half the kicking around they deserve.  Thus endeth the disclaimer.  And so:

If it just splits your bits to see a Discordian doing what ever the hell it is they want to do, if you can't at least leave them alone to do it if not get behind them and cheer them on even if you'd never dream of doing it, if you can't manage to disconnect the word SHOULD from your brain WHENEVER you think about what someone else is doing...Then simply ram a bucket full of your own bullshit down your throat, and while you're choking on it, super glue your lips together to keep it from ever escaping again, and set yourself on fire and jump in front of a train and suck down some Drano and play Kurt Cobain's last song on the bass shotgun OR KILL ME BECAUSE I CAN'T FUCKING STAND TO SEE THE LAST BASTION OF INDIVIDUALITY TURN INTO A BUNCH OF FUCKING PINK SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHERS WITH THEIR OWN FUCKING IDEAS OF CORRECT BEHAVIOR BEING ENFORCED ON ANY FUCKING BODY.

LIKEWISE, if you see a Discordian NOT getting on the fucking bus, if you see them NOT buying into what you think is the only proper behavior for a Discordian™, if you see them NOT trying to save the fucking world from their keyboard, then perhaps you should pause for about ten fucking seconds before blowing the fuck up, because LAST TIME I CHECKED, THIS ISN'T ABOUT GROUPTHINK.  I have MY Discordia, you have YOUR Discordia, and if you can by power of persuasion get maybe 6 people on board, then THAT IN ITSELF IS A VICTORY.  You're bloody lucky to get THAT many, and you have NO RIGHT TO INSIST THAT EVERYONE JOIN YOUR CRUSADE.

Pat Robertson insists that everything be done his way.  Robert fucking Tilton insists that everything be done his way (which apparently means throwing your wife down the stairs and then running down the street naked, screaming that rats are eating your brains).  Paul Goddamn Ryan insists that everything be done his way.  Are we to emulate them?  No.  We are SUPERIOR MUTANTS, and one reason for that is that WE DON'T PRETEND TO HAVE THE ONE SIZE FITS ALL SOLUTION TO ANYTHING.

And if you feel the need to coerce someone (physically, socially, or emotionally) into doing it YOUR WAY, then don't mind that low popping noise.  It was just your soul.

Christ.  Now I've shat myself.


Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: LMNO on September 11, 2012, 07:49:26 PM
(http://anonandon.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/clap2.gif)
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Luna on September 11, 2012, 07:50:39 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on September 11, 2012, 07:56:41 PM
I approve this message.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2012, 08:01:16 PM
Be advised that this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, because WE'RE ALL FUCKING GUILTY OF IT.

If RWHN wants to start a drug thread, that's his right.  If you don't like it, don't click.  If Garbo or Pixe or someone wants to start a feminism thread, good on them.  If you don't like it, don't click.  If I want to start a thread about the mite colony forming in the hair of my ass, too bad.  IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, YOU'RE DAMNED.  I mean, don't click.

Conversely, if someone doesn't AGREE with you or isn't TOTALLY ON BOARD, this does NOT mean that they oppose you.  It just means that they don't agree with you, or aren't totally on board.

"If you're not with us, you're against us."
- George W Bush

Is THAT any kind of example for a superior mutant to follow?  NO.  IT ISN'T.  We're not better than that because we have all the ANSWERS, we're better than that BECAUSE WE HAVE INCONVENIENT QUESTIONS.

If you want your beliefs 169% affirmed, with no criticism, then find a Pagan board.  I hear they're into that shit.

Also, if someone LOSES THEIR TEMPER during a conversation, this does NOT equal "I HATE YOU" or "YOU'RE NOT MY FRIEND ANYMORE" or "YOUR IDEA SUCKS".  Or at least it shouldn't.  If there's anything we KNOW about PD, it's that tempers get hot during arguments.  It's not a sign that your opinion isn't respected, it's a sign that you're under their belief system and that it ITCHES when that happens, or perhaps that they're just FRUSTRATED.

PD is not your "instant crusade, just add beliefs".  It is not where you come for validation, or to save the world.  It's where you come to hang out with people who THINK, just like YOU think, even if they don't think the SAME THING you think.

Annnnnnd shat myself again.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Verbal Mike on September 11, 2012, 08:03:25 PM
Yes.

The thing is that it's no small task to notice this while you're doing it.

This does apply to the feminism thread, and it's the only one of the examples I've experienced, so here's how it looked from inside the uniform.

Until some point this morning, I was convinced that I had been spending time clarifying a theoretical point. I was very confused by the talk of uniforms, because I was wearing mine so snug I didn't notice it was there. Only because of the rage I was seeing about it did I really take a step back and try to figure out how it could be perceived as trying to put my uniform on someone else. And once I managed to wrap my head around that, it made sense. But it wasn't easy to get there. I was convinced that I was trying to explain something to someone who was being stubborn and refusing to understand it, that I was defending a discussion's right to take place, etc. It took a while to realize that without noticing it, my goal had actually become (or even been) to change other people's minds, and then I kinda recoiled. That goal was unconscious, so there was no moment of feeling an urge come on or anything. Just a slow slide into preaching.

So while I think you're very right with the OP, dear Fidel, it does seem like post-hoc rage might work better than forewarnings, at least some of the time or for some of us.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Verbal Mike on September 11, 2012, 08:05:41 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 08:01:16 PM
It's where you come to hang out with people who THINK, just like YOU think, even if they don't think the SAME THING you think.

BINGO. Most of this group consists of "like-minded people", but not in the usual sense of "having minds with mostly the same thoughts in them". It's easy to get confused about that, because this kind of group hardly exists anywhere, ever. We're probably not biologically adapted to it.

So yeah. A minute ago I was thinking I don't like the mutant label. But suddenly it makes perfect sense. For the moment, at least.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2012, 08:06:47 PM
Quote from: VERBL on September 11, 2012, 08:03:25 PM
Yes.

The thing is that it's no small task to notice this while you're doing it.

And THAT is why the moment you stop examining your own beliefs and actions, you have - temporarily - turned into one of THEM.  At that point, you should START examining your beliefs, your actions, and even your motives.

QuoteThis does apply to the feminism thread, and it's the only one of the examples I've experienced, so here's how it looked from inside the uniform.

Until some point this morning, I was convinced that I had been spending time clarifying a theoretical point. I was very confused by the talk of uniforms, because I was wearing mine so snug I didn't notice it was there. Only because of the rage I was seeing about it did I really take a step back and try to figure out how it could be perceived as trying to put my uniform on someone else. And once I managed to wrap my head around that, it made sense. But it wasn't easy to get there.[/b] I was convinced that I was trying to explain something to someone who was being stubborn and refusing to understand it, that I was defending a discussion's right to take place, etc. It took a while to realize that without noticing it, my goal had actually become (or even been) to change other people's minds, and then I kinda recoiled. That goal was unconscious, so there was no moment of feeling an urge come on or anything. Just a slow slide into preaching.

EXACTLY.  And it's not easy at all.  If it was, EVERYONE WOULD DO IT.

QuoteSo while I think you're very right with the OP, dear Fidel, it does seem like post-hoc rage might work better than forewarnings, at least some of the time or for some of us.

Blow ups happen.  It's almost always easier to dissect them than to prevent them.

Plus, it makes the day go by.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2012, 08:12:37 PM
Quote from: VERBL on September 11, 2012, 08:05:41 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 08:01:16 PM
It's where you come to hang out with people who THINK, just like YOU think, even if they don't think the SAME THING you think.

BINGO. Most of this group consists of "like-minded people", but not in the usual sense of "having minds with mostly the same thoughts in them". It's easy to get confused about that, because this kind of group hardly exists anywhere, ever. We're probably not biologically adapted to it.

So yeah. A minute ago I was thinking I don't like the mutant label. But suddenly it makes perfect sense. For the moment, at least.

Yeah, labels should be temporary things, things used for VERY specific purposes.  Otherwise, they start GROWING, and then the next thing you know, you're wearing another snappy uniform.

Take the "cis" label.  It is useful ONLY when there is a need to differentiate between cis people and trans people, just like Gay is only useful if the differentiating between sexual orientations is relevant to the discussion.  If the differentation isn't necessary, then NEITHER IS THE LABEL.

In this case, the superior mutant label was used to describe the difference between people that think for themselves, and people who think what they believe they're supposed to think.  ETA:  Outside of this sort of discussion, there is no need to use the term.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Verbal Mike on September 11, 2012, 08:13:19 PM
:cheers:
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on September 11, 2012, 08:17:23 PM
Labels should be temporary things.

I like that.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Anna Mae Bollocks on September 11, 2012, 08:19:14 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 07:42:33 PM
After the recent devastation, I just thought I'd get a few things out in the open, so that we can all learn to recognize the horrible smell of monkey ass, and perhaps avoid it in the future.  Please note that this is NOT a reaction to the recent feminism threads in particular, and applies equally to drug threads, mahdgickque threads, and even the libertarian bullshit.  But not to Captain Utopia or Babylon Horuv  threads, which didn't get half the kicking around they deserve.  Thus endeth the disclaimer.  And so:

If it just splits your bits to see a Discordian doing what ever the hell it is they want to do, if you can't at least leave them alone to do it if not get behind them and cheer them on even if you'd never dream of doing it, if you can't manage to disconnect the word SHOULD from your brain WHENEVER you think about what someone else is doing...Then simply ram a bucket full of your own bullshit down your throat, and while you're choking on it, super glue your lips together to keep it from ever escaping again, and set yourself on fire and jump in front of a train and suck down some Drano and play Kurt Cobain's last song on the bass shotgun OR KILL ME BECAUSE I CAN'T FUCKING STAND TO SEE THE LAST BASTION OF INDIVIDUALITY TURN INTO A BUNCH OF FUCKING PINK SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHERS WITH THEIR OWN FUCKING IDEAS OF CORRECT BEHAVIOR BEING ENFORCED ON ANY FUCKING BODY.

LIKEWISE, if you see a Discordian NOT getting on the fucking bus, if you see them NOT buying into what you think is the only proper behavior for a Discordian™, if you see them NOT trying to save the fucking world from their keyboard, then perhaps you should pause for about ten fucking seconds before blowing the fuck up, because LAST TIME I CHECKED, THIS ISN'T ABOUT GROUPTHINK.  I have MY Discordia, you have YOUR Discordia, and if you can by power of persuasion get maybe 6 people on board, then THAT IN ITSELF IS A VICTORY.  You're bloody lucky to get THAT many, and you have NO RIGHT TO INSIST THAT EVERYONE JOIN YOUR CRUSADE.

Pat Robertson insists that everything be done his way.  Robert fucking Tilton insists that everything be done his way (which apparently means throwing your wife down the stairs and then running down the street naked, screaming that rats are eating your brains).  Paul Goddamn Ryan insists that everything be done his way.  Are we to emulate them?  No.  We are SUPERIOR MUTANTS, and one reason for that is that WE DON'T PRETEND TO HAVE THE ONE SIZE FITS ALL SOLUTION TO ANYTHING.

And if you feel the need to coerce someone (physically, socially, or emotionally) into doing it YOUR WAY, then don't mind that low popping noise.  It was just your soul.

Christ.  Now I've shat myself.

Mittens are overdone, but :mittens:

Fuck, if everybody SAW EVERYTHING EXACTLY LIKE I DO, I'd talk to my damn self.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2012, 08:20:37 PM
Quote from: Nephew Twiddleton on September 11, 2012, 08:17:23 PM
Labels should be temporary things.

I like that.

Yes, if you use the label to describe yourself when it's not relevant to the topic at hand, it's a uniform.  When you use the label to describe someone else when it's not relevant to the topic at hand, it's a nice little box to put someone in.

"I have this friend, he's nuts for football."

"I have this Black friend, he's nuts for football."


"Cameron from accounting had a fender bender in the parking lot."

"Cameron, that chick in accounting, had a fender bender in the parking lot."

See what I mean?
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: AFK on September 11, 2012, 08:26:07 PM
Very much agreed with the OP.  Good points all around!
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on September 11, 2012, 08:35:23 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on September 11, 2012, 08:19:14 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 07:42:33 PM
After the recent devastation, I just thought I'd get a few things out in the open, so that we can all learn to recognize the horrible smell of monkey ass, and perhaps avoid it in the future.  Please note that this is NOT a reaction to the recent feminism threads in particular, and applies equally to drug threads, mahdgickque threads, and even the libertarian bullshit.  But not to Captain Utopia or Babylon Horuv  threads, which didn't get half the kicking around they deserve.  Thus endeth the disclaimer.  And so:

If it just splits your bits to see a Discordian doing what ever the hell it is they want to do, if you can't at least leave them alone to do it if not get behind them and cheer them on even if you'd never dream of doing it, if you can't manage to disconnect the word SHOULD from your brain WHENEVER you think about what someone else is doing...Then simply ram a bucket full of your own bullshit down your throat, and while you're choking on it, super glue your lips together to keep it from ever escaping again, and set yourself on fire and jump in front of a train and suck down some Drano and play Kurt Cobain's last song on the bass shotgun OR KILL ME BECAUSE I CAN'T FUCKING STAND TO SEE THE LAST BASTION OF INDIVIDUALITY TURN INTO A BUNCH OF FUCKING PINK SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHERS WITH THEIR OWN FUCKING IDEAS OF CORRECT BEHAVIOR BEING ENFORCED ON ANY FUCKING BODY.

LIKEWISE, if you see a Discordian NOT getting on the fucking bus, if you see them NOT buying into what you think is the only proper behavior for a Discordian™, if you see them NOT trying to save the fucking world from their keyboard, then perhaps you should pause for about ten fucking seconds before blowing the fuck up, because LAST TIME I CHECKED, THIS ISN'T ABOUT GROUPTHINK.  I have MY Discordia, you have YOUR Discordia, and if you can by power of persuasion get maybe 6 people on board, then THAT IN ITSELF IS A VICTORY.  You're bloody lucky to get THAT many, and you have NO RIGHT TO INSIST THAT EVERYONE JOIN YOUR CRUSADE.

Pat Robertson insists that everything be done his way.  Robert fucking Tilton insists that everything be done his way (which apparently means throwing your wife down the stairs and then running down the street naked, screaming that rats are eating your brains).  Paul Goddamn Ryan insists that everything be done his way.  Are we to emulate them?  No.  We are SUPERIOR MUTANTS, and one reason for that is that WE DON'T PRETEND TO HAVE THE ONE SIZE FITS ALL SOLUTION TO ANYTHING.

And if you feel the need to coerce someone (physically, socially, or emotionally) into doing it YOUR WAY, then don't mind that low popping noise.  It was just your soul.

Christ.  Now I've shat myself.

Mittens are overdone, but :mittens:

Fuck, if everybody SAW EVERYTHING EXACTLY LIKE I DO, I'd talk to my damn self.

Fucking yes! This is why, Mr Tigger, me and you have come to loggerheads on a million topics, a million times but I don't recall us ever having anything but the utmost respect for each other, regardless how loudly we might have been screaming "Your opinion is fucking retarded", at the time.

This is why when someone accuses me of not thinking what I should be thinking, on a given topic, my reaction invariably involves my middle finger.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: EK WAFFLR on September 11, 2012, 08:35:58 PM
Fucking yes.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Juana on September 11, 2012, 08:43:16 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 08:12:37 PM
Quote from: VERBL on September 11, 2012, 08:05:41 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 08:01:16 PM
It's where you come to hang out with people who THINK, just like YOU think, even if they don't think the SAME THING you think.

BINGO. Most of this group consists of "like-minded people", but not in the usual sense of "having minds with mostly the same thoughts in them". It's easy to get confused about that, because this kind of group hardly exists anywhere, ever. We're probably not biologically adapted to it.

So yeah. A minute ago I was thinking I don't like the mutant label. But suddenly it makes perfect sense. For the moment, at least.

Yeah, labels should be temporary things, things used for VERY specific purposes.  Otherwise, they start GROWING, and then the next thing you know, you're wearing another snappy uniform.

Take the "cis" label.  It is useful ONLY when there is a need to differentiate between cis people and trans people, just like Gay is only useful if the differentiating between sexual orientations is relevant to the discussion.  If the differentation isn't necessary, then NEITHER IS THE LABEL.

In this case, the superior mutant label was used to describe the difference between people that think for themselves, and people who think what they believe they're supposed to think.  ETA:  Outside of this sort of discussion, there is no need to use the term.
Perfect.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2012, 08:46:09 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on September 11, 2012, 08:35:23 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on September 11, 2012, 08:19:14 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 07:42:33 PM
After the recent devastation, I just thought I'd get a few things out in the open, so that we can all learn to recognize the horrible smell of monkey ass, and perhaps avoid it in the future.  Please note that this is NOT a reaction to the recent feminism threads in particular, and applies equally to drug threads, mahdgickque threads, and even the libertarian bullshit.  But not to Captain Utopia or Babylon Horuv  threads, which didn't get half the kicking around they deserve.  Thus endeth the disclaimer.  And so:

If it just splits your bits to see a Discordian doing what ever the hell it is they want to do, if you can't at least leave them alone to do it if not get behind them and cheer them on even if you'd never dream of doing it, if you can't manage to disconnect the word SHOULD from your brain WHENEVER you think about what someone else is doing...Then simply ram a bucket full of your own bullshit down your throat, and while you're choking on it, super glue your lips together to keep it from ever escaping again, and set yourself on fire and jump in front of a train and suck down some Drano and play Kurt Cobain's last song on the bass shotgun OR KILL ME BECAUSE I CAN'T FUCKING STAND TO SEE THE LAST BASTION OF INDIVIDUALITY TURN INTO A BUNCH OF FUCKING PINK SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHERS WITH THEIR OWN FUCKING IDEAS OF CORRECT BEHAVIOR BEING ENFORCED ON ANY FUCKING BODY.

LIKEWISE, if you see a Discordian NOT getting on the fucking bus, if you see them NOT buying into what you think is the only proper behavior for a Discordian™, if you see them NOT trying to save the fucking world from their keyboard, then perhaps you should pause for about ten fucking seconds before blowing the fuck up, because LAST TIME I CHECKED, THIS ISN'T ABOUT GROUPTHINK.  I have MY Discordia, you have YOUR Discordia, and if you can by power of persuasion get maybe 6 people on board, then THAT IN ITSELF IS A VICTORY.  You're bloody lucky to get THAT many, and you have NO RIGHT TO INSIST THAT EVERYONE JOIN YOUR CRUSADE.

Pat Robertson insists that everything be done his way.  Robert fucking Tilton insists that everything be done his way (which apparently means throwing your wife down the stairs and then running down the street naked, screaming that rats are eating your brains).  Paul Goddamn Ryan insists that everything be done his way.  Are we to emulate them?  No.  We are SUPERIOR MUTANTS, and one reason for that is that WE DON'T PRETEND TO HAVE THE ONE SIZE FITS ALL SOLUTION TO ANYTHING.

And if you feel the need to coerce someone (physically, socially, or emotionally) into doing it YOUR WAY, then don't mind that low popping noise.  It was just your soul.

Christ.  Now I've shat myself.

Mittens are overdone, but :mittens:

Fuck, if everybody SAW EVERYTHING EXACTLY LIKE I DO, I'd talk to my damn self.

Fucking yes! This is why, Mr Tigger, me and you have come to loggerheads on a million topics, a million times but I don't recall us ever having anything but the utmost respect for each other, regardless how loudly we might have been screaming "Your opinion is fucking retarded", at the time.

This is why when someone accuses me of not thinking what I should be thinking, on a given topic, my reaction invariably involves my middle finger.

I have a tendency to try to put myself in the other person's shoes.  Problem is, those shoes don't fit my warty and deformed feet, and I get all pissy.  Then, you know, YARGANARGANARG!

I always learn from it, though.  It just takes me a long time.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2012, 08:49:46 PM
Quote from: Secret Agent GARBO on September 11, 2012, 08:43:16 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 08:12:37 PM
Quote from: VERBL on September 11, 2012, 08:05:41 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 08:01:16 PM
It's where you come to hang out with people who THINK, just like YOU think, even if they don't think the SAME THING you think.

BINGO. Most of this group consists of "like-minded people", but not in the usual sense of "having minds with mostly the same thoughts in them". It's easy to get confused about that, because this kind of group hardly exists anywhere, ever. We're probably not biologically adapted to it.

So yeah. A minute ago I was thinking I don't like the mutant label. But suddenly it makes perfect sense. For the moment, at least.

Yeah, labels should be temporary things, things used for VERY specific purposes.  Otherwise, they start GROWING, and then the next thing you know, you're wearing another snappy uniform.

Take the "cis" label.  It is useful ONLY when there is a need to differentiate between cis people and trans people, just like Gay is only useful if the differentiating between sexual orientations is relevant to the discussion.  If the differentation isn't necessary, then NEITHER IS THE LABEL.

In this case, the superior mutant label was used to describe the difference between people that think for themselves, and people who think what they believe they're supposed to think.  ETA:  Outside of this sort of discussion, there is no need to use the term.
Perfect.

Yeah, I got over the objection to labels in the last go-round, but again...Only when they're relevant.

Imagine the following situation:  You're at a party, and you meet someone new.

"Hi, I'm Roger."

"Hi, I'm Roger.  I'm a liberal/conservative/feminist/Gay rights activist/teabagger/whatever."

Which one is appropriate?  Obviously the first one, because the second one says two things:

1.  I am wearing a uniform.  I would like you to admire me for it, now.

2.  I am about to bore the shit out of you.  Let me get you a drink.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Juana on September 11, 2012, 09:05:21 PM
:lulz: Yes. They have a time and a place, otherwise it's LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEE! And no one likes look-at-me's.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Anna Mae Bollocks on September 11, 2012, 09:24:24 PM
Labels are like alerts, too. Fucked up alerts.

"There's a man coming to pick this up." Translation: "There's a man coming to pick this up."

"There's a black man/mexican/whatever coming to pick this up." Translation: "LOOK OUT HE'S ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE"  :x
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on September 11, 2012, 09:35:18 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on September 11, 2012, 09:24:24 PM
Labels are like alerts, too. Fucked up alerts.

"There's a man coming to pick this up." Translation: "There's a man coming to pick this up."

"There's a black man/mexican/whatever coming to pick this up." Translation: "LOOK OUT HE'S ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE"  :x

this bugs the shit out ;fmeandit happensall the time.there is usually no reason to specify a person's race in these cases.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Freeky on September 11, 2012, 09:36:24 PM
I love this thread.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2012, 10:00:05 PM
AT THIS POINT, I'd like to point out that this thread - the OP - is itself an example of Groupthink conditioning.  Just because I say something INFLAMMATORY in ALL CAPS doesn't make it true.

I mean, it IS true, it's just not proven by the mere fact that it pisses you off.

I'd explain it further, but it's way too meta for you.

El Presidente,
Discordian Hipster
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Freeky on September 11, 2012, 10:27:07 PM
Hey, spag, just because people are agreeing with you doesn't mean it isn't because you're right.

Or something.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2012, 10:30:12 PM
Quote from: Freeky Queen of DERP on September 11, 2012, 10:27:07 PM
Hey, spag, just because people are agreeing with you doesn't mean it isn't because you're right.

Or something.

Um...Canceling negatives, here...Um...

Did I just get a compliment or an insult?

I'M SO CONFUSED!
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: tyrannosaurus vex on September 11, 2012, 10:34:12 PM
My problem is threefold:

a) Rarely is what comes out of my mouth (or through my keyboard) exactly what I'm really trying to say, on the first (or fifth) attempt; and
b) I tend to assume no one else suffers from this; and
c) I tend to confuse my interpretation with the speaker's intention.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2012, 10:34:58 PM
Quote from: v3x on September 11, 2012, 10:34:12 PM
My problem is threefold:

a) Rarely is what comes out of my mouth (or through my keyboard) exactly what I'm really trying to say, on the first (or fifth) attempt; and
b) I tend to assume no one else suffers from this; and
c) I tend to confuse my interpretation with the speaker's intention.

Welcome to the human condition.  Sometimes you even get hollered at for shit you didn't even say.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Prince Glittersnatch III on September 11, 2012, 10:37:30 PM
Quote from: Freeky Queen of DERP on September 11, 2012, 10:27:07 PM
Hey, spag, just because people are agreeing with you doesn't mean it isn't because you're right.

Or something.

And just because you are right, doesn't mean people are agreeing with you because you are right. And just because you are wrong doesn't mean people are disagreeing with you because you are wrong. And you may be wrong, and yet people agree with you for all the right reasons.

This shits complicated, that's why I just get all my opinions from vloggers with less than 100 subscribers.

^The exception to all of this is TOTSE2. 99% of the time when they disagree with me it means I'm doing something right.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 11, 2012, 10:39:58 PM
ATTN, PD...NEWSFEED?

Quote from: Prince Glittersnatch III on September 11, 2012, 10:37:30 PM
This shits complicated, that's why I just get all my opinions from vloggers with less than 100 subscribers.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Freeky on September 11, 2012, 11:05:04 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 10:39:58 PM
ATTN, PD...NEWSFEED?

Quote from: Prince Glittersnatch III on September 11, 2012, 10:37:30 PM
This shits complicated, that's why I just get all my opinions from vloggers with less than 100 subscribers.

Yais.  Win.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Epimetheus on September 12, 2012, 01:41:53 AM
So much :mittens: to OP and OP#2.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 08:12:37 PM
Take the "cis" label.  It is useful ONLY when there is a need to differentiate between cis people and trans people, just like Gay is only useful if the differentiating between sexual orientations is relevant to the discussion.  If the differentation isn't necessary, then NEITHER IS THE LABEL.

Seriously. If I had a nickel for every time someone said, "So I met this black guy at the store..."

Gonna confront people more about that shit.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Anna Mae Bollocks on September 12, 2012, 02:34:36 AM
Quote from: Freeky Queen of DERP on September 11, 2012, 11:05:04 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 10:39:58 PM
ATTN, PD...NEWSFEED?

Quote from: Prince Glittersnatch III on September 11, 2012, 10:37:30 PM
This shits complicated, that's why I just get all my opinions from vloggers with less than 100 subscribers.

Yais.  Win.

Seconded.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Kai on September 12, 2012, 02:44:03 AM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 08:12:37 PM
Quote from: VERBL on September 11, 2012, 08:05:41 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 08:01:16 PM
It's where you come to hang out with people who THINK, just like YOU think, even if they don't think the SAME THING you think.

BINGO. Most of this group consists of "like-minded people", but not in the usual sense of "having minds with mostly the same thoughts in them". It's easy to get confused about that, because this kind of group hardly exists anywhere, ever. We're probably not biologically adapted to it.

So yeah. A minute ago I was thinking I don't like the mutant label. But suddenly it makes perfect sense. For the moment, at least.

Yeah, labels should be temporary things, things used for VERY specific purposes.  Otherwise, they start GROWING, and then the next thing you know, you're wearing another snappy uniform.

Take the "cis" label.  It is useful ONLY when there is a need to differentiate between cis people and trans people, just like Gay is only useful if the differentiating between sexual orientations is relevant to the discussion.  If the differentation isn't necessary, then NEITHER IS THE LABEL.

In this case, the superior mutant label was used to describe the difference between people that think for themselves, and people who think what they believe they're supposed to think.  ETA:  Outside of this sort of discussion, there is no need to use the term.

I love that. "Labels are temporary", and as they are only relevant within particular discussions, they can not stand for a person. Excellent.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 13, 2012, 03:00:20 AM
Quote from: ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S. on September 12, 2012, 02:44:03 AM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 08:12:37 PM
Quote from: VERBL on September 11, 2012, 08:05:41 PM
Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 08:01:16 PM
It's where you come to hang out with people who THINK, just like YOU think, even if they don't think the SAME THING you think.

BINGO. Most of this group consists of "like-minded people", but not in the usual sense of "having minds with mostly the same thoughts in them". It's easy to get confused about that, because this kind of group hardly exists anywhere, ever. We're probably not biologically adapted to it.

So yeah. A minute ago I was thinking I don't like the mutant label. But suddenly it makes perfect sense. For the moment, at least.

Yeah, labels should be temporary things, things used for VERY specific purposes.  Otherwise, they start GROWING, and then the next thing you know, you're wearing another snappy uniform.

Take the "cis" label.  It is useful ONLY when there is a need to differentiate between cis people and trans people, just like Gay is only useful if the differentiating between sexual orientations is relevant to the discussion.  If the differentation isn't necessary, then NEITHER IS THE LABEL.

In this case, the superior mutant label was used to describe the difference between people that think for themselves, and people who think what they believe they're supposed to think.  ETA:  Outside of this sort of discussion, there is no need to use the term.

I love that. "Labels are temporary", and as they are only relevant within particular discussions, they can not stand for a person. Excellent.

There is no substitute for a person.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on September 13, 2012, 10:04:09 AM
Brilliantly said, you old Cuban Commie!

For me this is the KEY meaning of "We Discordians must stick apart" not that we shouldn't get together for some fun/debate/mental masturbation... but that we don't all NEED to agree (nor should we!). 

I think it was the differences in our personal Discordia that kept The Good Rev and I at each others throats for so long. Eris and I (no, not that Eris, I mean the one I'm married to), were discussing this the other day. She was talking about how she had read every Discordian work she could get her hands on before she ever found PD... and what really impressed her most was the completely different writing styles and intent that mixed together within them. Cramulus was all about 'practical Discordianism', TGRR was all about exposing the hard to swallow bits and Ratatosk was all about the poetic, positive bits, she ranted about Hoopla, LMNO and others as well... each bringing a completely different Discordian Reality to a single manifesto/book/magazine or even here on the forums. It was the opposing dynamics that she found so compelling for Discordians.

All Hail Discordia (and stuff)!
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on September 13, 2012, 11:21:09 AM
Quote from: Epimetheus on September 12, 2012, 01:41:53 AM
So much :mittens: to OP and OP#2.

Quote from: Fidel Castro on September 11, 2012, 08:12:37 PM
Take the "cis" label.  It is useful ONLY when there is a need to differentiate between cis people and trans people, just like Gay is only useful if the differentiating between sexual orientations is relevant to the discussion.  If the differentation isn't necessary, then NEITHER IS THE LABEL.

Seriously. If I had a nickel for every time someone said, "So I met this black guy at the store..."

Gonna confront people more about that shit.

Try this:

Quote"So I met this black guy at the store..."

"Really?"

"Hmm"

"How black was he?"

"Huh?"

"Well I mean was he jet black like the singer Seal or more kinda brown, like President Obama?"

"He was, I guess, in the middle somewhere? Anyway, we were at the store..."

"Was he dressed all gangsta hoodie and bling or was he undercover and dressed like one of us?"

"He was ... look it doesn't matter, we were at the store, right?"

"So was he rocking the 'fro?"

"what?"

"Cornrows?"

"look man, this is not important, okay, we were at the store..."

"Well, fuck me, you brought it up"
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Mangrove on September 13, 2012, 04:07:24 PM
Roger/Fidel's post reminds me of two quotes that I've come across lately that I've found as challenging as they are useful:

a) The extent to which you let others be what they are, is the extent to which you are free.

b) Conversion is violence.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Anna Mae Bollocks on September 14, 2012, 12:10:31 AM
Quote from: Mangrove on September 13, 2012, 04:07:24 PM
Roger/Fidel's post reminds me of two quotes that I've come across lately that I've found as challenging as they are useful:

a) The extent to which you let others be what they are, is the extent to which you are free.

b) Conversion is violence.

Those are great - got sources?
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Epimetheus on September 14, 2012, 02:18:28 AM
Quote from: Mangrove on September 13, 2012, 04:07:24 PM
b) Conversion is violence.

And changing one's own mind, masochism?
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 14, 2012, 02:20:04 AM
Quote from: Epimetheus on September 14, 2012, 02:18:28 AM
Quote from: Mangrove on September 13, 2012, 04:07:24 PM
b) Conversion is violence.

And changing one's own mind, masochism?

In the short run?  Yes.   :lulz:
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞ on September 14, 2012, 03:02:37 AM
Quote from: Epimetheus on September 14, 2012, 02:18:28 AM
Quote from: Mangrove on September 13, 2012, 04:07:24 PM
b) Conversion is violence.

And changing one's own mind, masochism?

Right?

It's a ridiculous conflation of persuasion and coercion using the formulaic but profound-sounding format:
_______ is _______.
(noun)        (noun)

All that's missing is a photo with a vintage effect appearing behind it.

(http://i.imgur.com/bEOH1.jpg)
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 14, 2012, 03:04:55 AM
Quote from: Net on September 14, 2012, 03:02:37 AM
Quote from: Epimetheus on September 14, 2012, 02:18:28 AM
Quote from: Mangrove on September 13, 2012, 04:07:24 PM
b) Conversion is violence.

And changing one's own mind, masochism?

Right?

It's a ridiculous conflation of persuasion and coercion using the formulaic but profound-sounding format:
_______ is _______.
(noun)        (noun)

All that's missing is a photo with a vintage effect appearing behind it.

(http://i.imgur.com/bEOH1.jpg)

:lulz:

Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: LMNO on September 14, 2012, 03:23:57 PM
Someone needs to write a meme generator for that shit.

Apples are mopeds.
Dogma is Nike sneakers.
Genocide is puppies.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: Anna Mae Bollocks on September 14, 2012, 07:34:12 PM
But dogma IS Nike sneakers.

Those things are a fucking RELIGION.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on September 14, 2012, 07:45:11 PM
Quote from: TEXAS FAIRIES FOR ALL YOU SPAGS on September 14, 2012, 07:34:12 PM
But dogma IS Nike sneakers.

Those things are a fucking RELIGION.

I was just watching a bunch of protestors losing their shit at America, in Egypt. 

Half of them were wearing Nike shirts.
Title: Re: A few notes on ProperThink™
Post by: The Good Reverend Roger on March 19, 2013, 04:57:06 PM
Bump for use elsewhere.