I'm sure someone already called the fact that drones would be used on US citizens. (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/376732/Man-hunt-for-ex-soldier-who-shot-police-chief-s-daughter-and-killed-policeman)
QuoteThey believe burly, heavily-armed Christopher Dorner is holed-up in the wilderness of California's snow-capped San Bernardino mountains 80 miles east of Los Angeles.
The burnt-out shell of his pick-up truck was discovered in the nearby resort of Big Bear, where residents and tourists have been warned to stay indoors as the search continues.
Yesterday, as a task force of 125 officers, some riding Snowcats in the rugged terrain, continued their search, it was revealed that Dorner has become the first human target for remotely-controlled airborne drones on US soil.
A senior police source said: "The thermal imaging cameras the drones use may be our only hope of finding him. On the ground, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack."
Asked directly if drones have already been deployed, Riverside Police Chief Sergio Diaz, who is jointly leading the task force, said: "We are using all the tools at our disposal."
The use of drones was later confirmed by Customs and Border Patrol spokesman Ralph DeSio, who revealed agents have been prepared for Dorner to make a dash for the Mexican border since his rampage began.
He said: "This agency has been at the forefront of domestic use of drones by law enforcement. That's all I can say at the moment."
Dorner, who was fired from the LAPD in 2008 for lying about a fellow officer he accused of misconduct, has vowed to wreak revenge by "killing officers and their families".
In a chilling, 6,000 word "manifesto" on his Facebook page he has threatened to "bring warfare" to the LAPD and "utilise every bit of small arms training, demolition, ordinance and survival training I've been given."
Dorner, 33, who rose to the rank of lieutenant in the US Navy and served in Iraq before joining the LAPD, also ominously warned that he has shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles to "knock out" any helicopters used to pursue him.
Last night, Brian Levin, a psychologist and professor of criminal justice at Cal State University, San Bernardino, said: "We're talking about someone who basically perceives that a tremendous injustice has been done to him that took his life and identity.
"Now he is, quite literally, at war."
Dorner's rampage began last Sunday when he shot dead Monica Quan, 27, the daughter of a former LAPD captain, and her fiancé Keith Lawrence as they sat in their car outside their home in Irvine, California.
Three days later, he stole a boat at gunpoint from an 81-year-old man at a yacht club in San Diego, near the Mexican border. He abandoned the boat when he could not get its engine to start.
The following day, last Thursday, he was involved in a shoot-out with police in Cornona, 110 miles north of San Diego. The officers, one of whom was wounded, had been guarding one of his intended online targets.
Later that day, in nearby Riverside, he killed one police officer, whose name has not yet been revealed for security reasons, and wounded a second after opening fire on their car at a set of traffic lights.
As the manhunt for him broadened across numerous police jurisdictions, police mistakenly shot and wounded a mother and daughter delivering newspapers in a pick-up truck similar to Dorner's.
That incident, in the LA suburb of Torrance, was astonishingly followed two hours later by another in the same area, when police again opened fire on a pick-up. This time, there were no casualties. Hours later, Dorner's actual pick-up truck was found on a forest road near Big Bear City.
"He had torched it," a San Bernardino police spokesman said. "We assume it may have broken down before he set fire to it."
Since then, the huge manhunt for Dorner has focused on an area where hundreds of log cabins, both owned and rented out to tourists, are dotted around the mountainside.
"There is a strong possibility he is using an empty or abandoned one as a bolt-hole," the police spokesman added last night.
LAPD police chief Charlie Beck, who has pleaded on TV with Dorner to surrender, accepted he might be "difficult to find", adding: "He knows what he is doing. We trained him and he was also a member of the armed forces. It is extremely worrisome and scary."
Police have also pleaded with local residents not to try to mount a civilian vigilante force or try to aid in the hunt for the fugitive.
However, one Big Bear resident, Dennis Pollock, said: "I did 12 years in the Marine Corps. Give me a sniper rifle, some gear, and point me in his general direction and get out of my way."
Another local said: "We know every inch of this terrain and could be a real help to the cops, but all they've told us to do is stay at home and lock all our doors."
Last night, America's National Weather Centre warned that the hunt for Dorner could be further hampered by an expected snowfall of up to 6ins in the mountains. Wind gusts of up to 50mph are also forecast, creating an extreme wind-chill factor in the already freezing conditions.
San Bernardino County Sheriff John McMahon said: "To be honest, he could be anywhere right now. Torching his own vehicle could have been a diversion to throw us off track. Anything is possible with this man."
Dorner's a cop killer, so of course no expense will be spared in finding him.
Hell, the LAPD shot up a pickup truck because it looked like Dorner's:
QuoteAbout 5:20 a.m. in Torrance, two women were delivering the Los Angeles Times from their blue pickup when LAPD officers spotted the truck.
The police apparently mistook the truck for Dorner's and riddled it with bullets. The women, a mother and daughter team, were rushed to a hospital.
The mother, who is in her 70s, was shot in the shoulder. She was listed in stable condition. Her daughter was injured by shattered glass.
At least they're not deploying the Predator and Reaper drones...yet. But this is the thin edge of the wedge. People who kill police officers get about much sympathy as terrorists and pedophiles, so using systems on them which, in a few years time, will be used to track down car thieves and the like, makes sense.
Lots of police forces across the US have been investing in drones, so they're going to use them.
I recall seeing an article a year or so regarding a quadrotor uav that they had bought for evaluation, but i've not read anything about what they have procured for operations.
Do we know what they're using?
Haven't found any info on that yet.
Would like to point out this article from May last year, though
http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2012/05/drones_lapd_angeles_faa_police.php
QuoteSo will the LAPD, a pioneer in the use of helicopters for law enforcement, soon be buzzing drones over your house as you smoke your favorite herb and become paranoid with fear?
Not likely, cops tell us:
The department doesn't really the see the advantage of using unmanned aircraft and has no plans to test them out, at least for now.
Meanwhile, I'm seeing Dorner being referred to as a "domestic terrorist" by the LAPD. Which is a sick joke, given the LAPD's own track record in that area...not to mention an all too predictable cheapening of the term. If anything, Dorner's vendetta is personal, not political.
To Protect and Serve... unless, of course, there's a cop-killer on the loose, in which case we'll open fire on any vehicle that remotely resembles his truck without, I don't know, looking to see if he's there first.
LAPD's always been trigger (or truncheon) happy, especially where minorities are involved. The whole Rampart affair, back to the shooting of unarmed Nation of Islam protestors and the Bloody Christmas scandal (the one made famous by LA Confidential) and even before.
That's why the whole domestic terrorism thing is such a sick joke. Not excusing Dorner's crimes, but against the tally sheet of history, LAPD is by far the greater evil.
Quote from: deadfong on February 11, 2013, 03:34:15 PM
To Protect and Serve... unless, of course, there's a cop-killer on the loose, in which case we'll open fire on any vehicle that remotely resembles his truck without, I don't know, looking to see if he's there first.
oh, come on. you're being totally unfair!
it was a grey nissan titan, which looks very similar to the light blue toyota tacoma that they were looking for, so it's totally understandable that they would open fire in the hopes of getting their target.
Is there any legitimacy in his manifesto? Aside from the Charlie Sheen comment, of course.
I'm inclined to think there's something in it, finding it between the crazy is another matter.
Time to break out the :zombie:
Shit, I was looking for popcorn, but this is just as likely I guess.
Quote from: Bu☆ns on February 11, 2013, 05:01:11 PM
Is there any legitimacy in his manifesto? Aside from the Charlie Sheen comment, of course.
I only read the Gawker synopsis, but a lot of it is rambling nonsense. He loves Chris Cristie and Hillary Clinton, for example. But he does list some of his complaints, some of which are valid (although I would have gone the way of a youtube channel exposing every bit of nasty info I had, myself).
You can read part one here (http://gawker.com/5982440). Part two is linked there, iirc.
"Give me a sniper rifle point me in his general direction and get out of my way?" Im not sure if thats american for "i need my right to bear arms so i can despite my fellow citizens of their right to due process" or "im deeply uncomfortable with how incredibly small my penis is"
Despite should be deprive. Econ ducking phone.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on February 11, 2013, 10:23:35 PM
"Give me a sniper rifle point me in his general direction and get out of my way?" Im not sure if thats american for "i need my right to bear arms so i can despite my fellow citizens of their right to due process" or "im deeply uncomfortable with how incredibly small my penis is"
I suspect it's that lone vigilante American hero trope. Probably with a little bit of tiny penis.
Its a really funny hypocrisy. My rights are more important than yours. Vigilantes are cool but lynch mobs arent.
The new "Die hard" is out soon. Think he's seen a few too many trailers.
I wonder if this is going to end up being a clean, painless kill... enough so to justify the continued use of drones in manhunts?
Honestly, if I had to choose between police officers shooting up random trucks vs. an unmanned surveillance drone, I'd much rather have the surveillance drone. The fact that you can even compare the casualty count between the (alleged) criminal and the police officers looking for him is ridiculous.
Would you feel better about if if they were using ordinary helicopters to look for him?
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on February 12, 2013, 01:36:14 AM
Honestly, if I had to choose between police officers shooting up random trucks vs. an unmanned surveillance drone, I'd much rather have the surveillance drone. The fact that you can even compare the casualty count between the (alleged) criminal and the police officers looking for him is ridiculous.
Would you feel better about if if they were using ordinary helicopters to look for him?
I'd like it if the cops simultaneously didn't shoot up random trucks or use drones on American citizens.
But then again, I'd also like us to be able to go faster than light.
You know, I'm fairly sure someone earlier on in this thread said Dorner would represent the thin wedge of a more gradual drone surveillance rollout, because no-one will feel much sympathy for a cop killer.
Now if I could only remember who that was...
Quote from: Cain on February 12, 2013, 03:00:22 AM
You know, I'm fairly sure someone earlier on in this thread said Dorner would represent the thin wedge of a more gradual drone surveillance rollout, because no-one will feel much sympathy for a cop killer.
Now if I could only remember who that was...
Oooh! Ooooh! I know this one! It was Cain! (and I didn't even have to look).
Cain is my frequent assurance that my paranoid thoughts are correct. And some other paranoid stuff that would never have occurred to me otherwise.
Horrible Truth ITT.
But at least I know I haven't lost my mind. :lol:
i would rather have them use an actual helicopter.
more effective, and less likely to be used frivolously.
similar in concept to wanting them carrying only fully lethal firearms, rather than tasers, etc.
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on February 12, 2013, 03:23:51 AM
i would rather have them use an actual helicopter.
more effective, and less likely to be used frivolously.
similar in concept to wanting them carrying only fully lethal firearms, rather than tasers, etc.
Excellent point, this.
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on February 12, 2013, 03:22:22 AM
Cain is my frequent assurance that my paranoid thoughts are correct. And some other paranoid stuff that would never have occurred to me otherwise.
Horrible Truth ITT.
But at least I know I haven't lost my mind. :lol:
Indeed. I don't always respond to Cain's posts, but I do pay attention to them. Cain has demonstrated that the world is in fact a crazy place, but never for the reasons that conspiracy theorists claim.
Quote from: Queef Erisson on February 12, 2013, 04:09:57 AM
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on February 12, 2013, 03:22:22 AM
Cain is my frequent assurance that my paranoid thoughts are correct. And some other paranoid stuff that would never have occurred to me otherwise.
Horrible Truth ITT.
But at least I know I haven't lost my mind. :lol:
Indeed. I don't always respond to Cain's posts, but I do pay attention to them. Cain has demonstrated that the world is in fact a crazy place, but never for the reasons that conspiracy theorists claim.
HAHA yeah that's right, isn't it :lulz:
Quote from: Bu☆ns on February 12, 2013, 04:23:08 AM
Quote from: Queef Erisson on February 12, 2013, 04:09:57 AM
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on February 12, 2013, 03:22:22 AM
Cain is my frequent assurance that my paranoid thoughts are correct. And some other paranoid stuff that would never have occurred to me otherwise.
Horrible Truth ITT.
But at least I know I haven't lost my mind. :lol:
Indeed. I don't always respond to Cain's posts, but I do pay attention to them. Cain has demonstrated that the world is in fact a crazy place, but never for the reasons that conspiracy theorists claim.
HAHA yeah that's right, isn't it :lulz:
If Eris via Cain has taught me anything, its that all of your worst fears are true, and everyone that told you that your worst fears were going to happen were fucking wrong.
QuoteLaw enforcement officials have been flooded with calls from the public after offering a $1 million reward for any information leading to the capture of triple homicide suspect Christopher Dorner.
KCAL9′s Serene Branson reports while most of those tips may not go anywhere, police say they have to check out each one just to be safe.
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/02/11/false-reports-of-dorner-sightings-spike-after-reward-offered/
QuotePolice seeking Dorner opened fire in a second case of mistaken identity
Torrance police say the man was driving a pickup resembling the fugitive's. The incident happened just after the LAPD fired on women delivering newspapers nearby.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130210,0,3955268.story
Quote from: Cain on February 12, 2013, 03:00:22 AM
You know, I'm fairly sure someone earlier on in this thread said Dorner would represent the thin wedge of a more gradual drone surveillance rollout, because no-one will feel much sympathy for a cop killer.
Now if I could only remember who that was...
GET THE STAINS OUT
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on February 12, 2013, 07:16:58 AM
QuotePolice seeking Dorner opened fire in a second case of mistaken identity
Torrance police say the man was driving a pickup resembling the fugitive's. The incident happened just after the LAPD fired on women delivering newspapers nearby.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-torrance-shooting-20130210,0,3955268.story
Saw the news footage, looks like the Cops have gone totally bugfuck. Standing on street corners looking as paranoid and twitchy as meth dealers and shooting everything that even looks like it's likely to move. If it wasn't for the fact that real people are dying it'd be funny as hell. In fact, scratch that, it is funny as hell. My sense of humour knows no bodycount.
http://beforeitsnews.com/the-law/2013/02/stunning-ex-l-a-pd-officer-from-a-cia-family-supports-dorner-speaks-out-against-lapd-video-2448624.html
Ruppert's a 9/11 Truther who stopped working for the LAPD long before Dorner was there, and has no experience in analyzing texts in such a manner.
Quote from: Cain on February 12, 2013, 05:01:07 PM
Ruppert's a 9/11 Truther
Credibility shot. :lol:
Quotewho stopped working for the LAPD long before Dorner was there, and has no experience in analyzing texts in such a manner.
Thanks, I'd never heard of that guy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21437322
Looks like it's over, unless it's the wrong guy again.
QuotePolice say they have found charred remains in the rubble of a burnt-down cabin where a murder suspect had been hiding.
Ex-policeman Christopher Dorner, accused of killing three people, was thought to have barricaded himself in and exchanged fire with police.
A single gunshot was later heard inside the building, which then began to burn.
Forensic tests are to be carried out to determine if the remains are those of Mr Dorner.
Large black men and people who drive trucks will no doubt be breathing a sigh of relief
Quote from: BBCPolice say they have found charred remains in the rubble of a burnt-down cabin where a murder suspect had been hiding.
Ex-policeman Christopher Dorner, accused of killing three people, was thought to have barricaded himself in and exchanged fire with police.
A single gunshot was later heard inside the building, which then began to burn.
Forensic tests are to be carried out to determine if the remains are those of Mr Dorner.
Well, that'll get the conspiracy nuts going.
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/lapd-no-body-found-in-burned-cabin
They've already begun.
I haven't followed them in the last couple of years, but TPM used to be pretty legit.
CNN are reporting the same thing. Rubble is still too hot to send forensic teams in.
Interesting. And it's guaranteed to create crazy theories in all directions too.
Truthers, Birthers, now Burners.
Birthers?? :?
Actually, forget it - I don't think I want to know
"Obama was born in Kenya and thus is not the legitimate President of the United States, unlike the valiant war hero John McCain (born in Panama)."
Ah, right, I'd heard of that, just not the "birthers" name. Sigh of relief - I thought this was another outlandish conspiracy theory and not just some poorly concealed hatred of teh blacks :kingmeh:
Quote from: Cain on February 13, 2013, 09:06:53 AM
Quote from: BBCPolice say they have found charred remains in the rubble of a burnt-down cabin where a murder suspect had been hiding.
Ex-policeman Christopher Dorner, accused of killing three people, was thought to have barricaded himself in and exchanged fire with police.
A single gunshot was later heard inside the building, which then began to burn.
Forensic tests are to be carried out to determine if the remains are those of Mr Dorner.
Well, that'll get the conspiracy nuts going.
Yeah, who'd think the LAPD would fuck up and then try to cover their tracks?
Nuts, that's who.
:lord:
So do we have confirmation of body yet or have the LAPD going from shooting anything that looks like it might be a truck, to burning anything that looks like a house? :lulz:
Depends who you ask, probably. :horrormirth:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 13, 2013, 01:46:50 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 13, 2013, 09:06:53 AM
Quote from: BBCPolice say they have found charred remains in the rubble of a burnt-down cabin where a murder suspect had been hiding.
Ex-policeman Christopher Dorner, accused of killing three people, was thought to have barricaded himself in and exchanged fire with police.
A single gunshot was later heard inside the building, which then began to burn.
Forensic tests are to be carried out to determine if the remains are those of Mr Dorner.
Well, that'll get the conspiracy nuts going.
Yeah, who'd think the LAPD would fuck up and then try to cover their tracks?
Nuts, that's who.
:lord:
Fairly sure the nuts will argue Dorner was in league with the LAPD as some kind of false flag operation and that the fire "convieniently" burnt his corpse beyond recognition, allowing him to escape into CIA protective custody or whatever.
Government agencies don't fuck up, in CT-land.
Quote from: Cain on February 13, 2013, 06:28:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 13, 2013, 01:46:50 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 13, 2013, 09:06:53 AM
Quote from: BBCPolice say they have found charred remains in the rubble of a burnt-down cabin where a murder suspect had been hiding.
Ex-policeman Christopher Dorner, accused of killing three people, was thought to have barricaded himself in and exchanged fire with police.
A single gunshot was later heard inside the building, which then began to burn.
Forensic tests are to be carried out to determine if the remains are those of Mr Dorner.
Well, that'll get the conspiracy nuts going.
Yeah, who'd think the LAPD would fuck up and then try to cover their tracks?
Nuts, that's who.
:lord:
Fairly sure the nuts will argue Dorner was in league with the LAPD as some kind of false flag operation and that the fire "convieniently" burnt his corpse beyond recognition, allowing him to escape into CIA protective custody or whatever.
Government agencies don't fuck up, in CT-land.
I'm not that loony. I'm just not convinced that the charred corpse is him, because of the "WE GOT HIM" followed by "NOT YET IDENTIFIED" followed by the "WHO FOUND A CORPSE? WE DIDN'T FIND ANY CORPSE." nonsense.
I'm almost ready to believe there is no corpse, and the crazy bastard got away again.
Well, if he did get away, I'm sure he'll wave in the LAPD's face with glee.
Quote from: Juana Go? on February 13, 2013, 06:50:22 PM
Well, if he did get away, I'm sure he'll wave in the LAPD's face with glee.
Maybe. Probably.
Or he'll just lay low for a while, and then shoot some more people.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 13, 2013, 06:38:43 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 13, 2013, 06:28:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 13, 2013, 01:46:50 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 13, 2013, 09:06:53 AM
Quote from: BBCPolice say they have found charred remains in the rubble of a burnt-down cabin where a murder suspect had been hiding.
Ex-policeman Christopher Dorner, accused of killing three people, was thought to have barricaded himself in and exchanged fire with police.
A single gunshot was later heard inside the building, which then began to burn.
Forensic tests are to be carried out to determine if the remains are those of Mr Dorner.
Well, that'll get the conspiracy nuts going.
Yeah, who'd think the LAPD would fuck up and then try to cover their tracks?
Nuts, that's who.
:lord:
Fairly sure the nuts will argue Dorner was in league with the LAPD as some kind of false flag operation and that the fire "convieniently" burnt his corpse beyond recognition, allowing him to escape into CIA protective custody or whatever.
Government agencies don't fuck up, in CT-land.
I'm not that loony. I'm just not convinced that the charred corpse is him, because of the "WE GOT HIM" followed by "NOT YET IDENTIFIED" followed by the "WHO FOUND A CORPSE? WE DIDN'T FIND ANY CORPSE." nonsense.
I'm almost ready to believe there is no corpse, and the crazy bastard got away again.
That, or that they opened fire on some poor innocent black guy in the hills, and torched the place after they shot him to death, to make it impossible to figure out what actually happened.
That sounds rather convincing. And given it's the LAPD, likely.
The LAPD chief: "To be targeted because of what you are, that is absolutely terrifying." (https://twitter.com/ebonymag/status/301463076627165184)
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r512/shutterbird13/Facepalm/photo-2438.gif)
Quote from: Juana Go? on February 14, 2013, 02:45:03 AM
The LAPD chief: "To be targeted because of what you are, that is absolutely terrifying." (https://twitter.com/ebonymag/status/301463076627165184)
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r512/shutterbird13/Facepalm/photo-2438.gif)
TOTAL
FUCKING
VICTORY!
Internets over. Garbo wins.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21454483
Well, there's a body and claims it is him. Again.
I think I saw something yesterday that said the first charred body was female.
I like how they 'didn't intend' to set the place on fire when they tossed in the pyrotechnics known as 'burners' after they were heard on the police scanners to say 'burn the fucking place down'.
:lulz:
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on February 14, 2013, 04:32:01 PM
I think I saw something yesterday that said the first charred body was female.
'Shooped
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004JFMOGK/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B004JFMOGK&linkCode=as2&tag=slatmaga-20
Fun for ages 3 and up.
The body has been positively ID'd as Dorner (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/14/chris-dorner-identified-positive-id-big-bear_n_2690274.html).
Because he has to be captured alive by a bunch of twitchy, pissed-off LAPD. Yeah, right:
http://news.yahoo.com/legal-loophole-could-hold-1m-dorner-reward-230004148--abc-news-topstories.html
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on February 15, 2013, 06:49:33 PM
Because he has to be captured alive by a bunch of twitchy, pissed-off LAPD. Yeah, right:
http://news.yahoo.com/legal-loophole-could-hold-1m-dorner-reward-230004148--abc-news-topstories.html
FFS.
I'd sue the LAPD then for loss of earnings. I've done my job and provided them information and they've fucked up the arrest and conviction part? Aint my bitch. Fuck you - pay me :evil:
Also, the LAPD burnt their house down. That has to count for something.
For those wondering:
The "burners" used by the LAPD are essentially incendiary devices with 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile, otherwise known as tear gas. This particular version of tear gas is, however, solid at room temperature, so the idea is that the incendiary and explosive converts it to a gaesous form.
In theory.
In practice, they seem to be marketed to dodgy third world regimes such as Burma, where they are used to injure and maim protestors, all while claiming it was "merely" tear gas that was being deployed. Because of the intense heat they produce, using them around anything that can catch fire is pretty much asking for a fire to be started, and anyone even vaguely aware of what the burners involve would have to know this.
Like I said above, there was no way Dorner was going to be taken in alive.
Cain,
i saw some blurbs at the time about police being heard on the scanners saying, 'burn the fucker down' right before tossing in the pyrotechnics.
doing a google, there's plenty of links to CT sites saying as such, but not much in the way of credible sources. there are youtubes (which i can't see at work) that have it recorded apparently, but, of course, those can be faked.
do you know anything about the credibility of these claims? seems to be a bombshell if it were true, and there's not any focus on that, so, i'm dubious now...
The New York Post, while not
entirely credible, does have this report:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/burn_this_mother_m1dKNrfBJza1Apo1D0OrlJ
Quote"Burn this motherf--ker!" one officer shouted ...Amid sounds of gunfire, voices can be heard shouting, "Burn it down!" and "Shoot the gas!"
I tend to believe they wouldn't use these quotes unless they were pretty sure they could prove they heard them.
hmm...
with a semi credible source quoting it, i would expect it to... (trying to avoid pun) spread through the media landscape.
do you agree this could rationally be taken as evidence of a concerted effort to squelch the story?
I believe it.
Cops aren't really prepared for something like this. Outside of people with tons of actual combat experience (in Iraq or Afghanistan, for example), nobody is.
So they get a little manic. And by "a little manic", I mean homicidal and DUMB.
There are also these quotes worth considering
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-dorner-fire-20130215,0,5831477.story
Quote"What difference does it make if one of the officers puts a ... round in his head, drives the armored vehicle over his body when they are knocking the building down, or he dies in a conflagration?" said David Klinger, a use-of-force expert at the University of Missouri at St. Louis and a former LAPD officer. "If he is trying to surrender you can't do any of those things ... But if he is actively trying to murder people, there's no doubt that deadly force is appropriate and it doesn't matter what method is used to deliver it."
Geoffery Alpert, a professor at the University of South Carolina who also specializes in police tactics, agreed.
"I don't understand what the big deal is," Alpert said. "This man had already shot two officers and was suspected of murdering other people. He wasn't responding in a rational manner. The actions you take have to remove the threat and if it requires extreme measures, then so be it."
It is interesting to note they are referencing military counterterrorism policies and ideas here, not policing.
Also, everyone knows a cop killer rarely ever makes it to actual trial. The police make sure of that, most times, because in most places, the police are just another gang, and the primary function of a gang (besides money making) is protecting their own and teaching others not to fuck with them.
We need Sam Vimes.
It's all Captain Quirke, all day for you.
Well, except for the occasional Captain Swing.
Quote from: Cain on February 18, 2013, 03:57:02 PM
It's all Captain Quirke, all day for you.
Well, except for the occasional Captain Swing.
Corporal Quirke (I just re-read the series) IS, in fact our police force.
But Captain Swing is Tomorrow standing there with calipers in its hands and blood on its apron.
Quote from: Cain on February 18, 2013, 03:38:50 PM
There are also these quotes worth considering
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-dorner-fire-20130215,0,5831477.story
Quote"What difference does it make if one of the officers puts a ... round in his head, drives the armored vehicle over his body when they are knocking the building down, or he dies in a conflagration?" said David Klinger, a use-of-force expert at the University of Missouri at St. Louis and a former LAPD officer. "If he is trying to surrender you can't do any of those things ... But if he is actively trying to murder people, there's no doubt that deadly force is appropriate and it doesn't matter what method is used to deliver it."
Geoffery Alpert, a professor at the University of South Carolina who also specializes in police tactics, agreed.
"I don't understand what the big deal is," Alpert said. "This man had already shot two officers and was suspected of murdering other people. He wasn't responding in a rational manner. The actions you take have to remove the threat and if it requires extreme measures, then so be it."
It is interesting to note they are referencing military counterterrorism policies and ideas here, not policing.
Also, everyone knows a cop killer rarely ever makes it to actual trial. The police make sure of that, most times, because in most places, the police are just another gang, and the primary function of a gang (besides money making) is protecting their own and teaching others not to fuck with them.
Yep. Only nobody's supposed to
say that. Protect and serve and all that shit. :x
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on February 18, 2013, 06:00:44 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 18, 2013, 03:38:50 PM
There are also these quotes worth considering
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-dorner-fire-20130215,0,5831477.story
Quote"What difference does it make if one of the officers puts a ... round in his head, drives the armored vehicle over his body when they are knocking the building down, or he dies in a conflagration?" said David Klinger, a use-of-force expert at the University of Missouri at St. Louis and a former LAPD officer. "If he is trying to surrender you can't do any of those things ... But if he is actively trying to murder people, there's no doubt that deadly force is appropriate and it doesn't matter what method is used to deliver it."
Geoffery Alpert, a professor at the University of South Carolina who also specializes in police tactics, agreed.
"I don't understand what the big deal is," Alpert said. "This man had already shot two officers and was suspected of murdering other people. He wasn't responding in a rational manner. The actions you take have to remove the threat and if it requires extreme measures, then so be it."
It is interesting to note they are referencing military counterterrorism policies and ideas here, not policing.
Also, everyone knows a cop killer rarely ever makes it to actual trial. The police make sure of that, most times, because in most places, the police are just another gang, and the primary function of a gang (besides money making) is protecting their own and teaching others not to fuck with them.
Yep. Only nobody's supposed to say that. Protect and serve and all that shit. :x
Actually, most department's charters say nothing about that. What they say is "preserve order".
Which, of course, puts them on roughly an equal footing with the Mafia.
Don Corleone was a keeper of the peace, after all.
Quote from: Cain on February 18, 2013, 06:21:31 PM
Which, of course, puts them on roughly an equal footing with the Mafia.
Don Corleone was a keeper of the peace, after all.
No argument here.
Tucson's PD was just about perfect when Walkup was mayor ("My job is to watch the police"), but now Rothschild is in ("The commissioner knows what he's doing"), and now it's sliding back into the old days of graft and senseless brutality.
It's fun, living in a real life James Ellroy novel, isn't it?
Quote from: Cain on February 18, 2013, 06:58:18 PM
It's fun, living in a real life James Ellroy novel, isn't it?
More like an Ellis/Templesmith graphic novel, to be perfectly honest.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 18, 2013, 06:54:10 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 18, 2013, 06:21:31 PM
Which, of course, puts them on roughly an equal footing with the Mafia.
Don Corleone was a keeper of the peace, after all.
No argument here.
Tucson's PD was just about perfect when Walkup was mayor ("My job is to watch the police"), but now Rothschild is in ("The commissioner knows what he's doing"), and now it's sliding back into the old days of graft and senseless brutality.
Tries to imagine a mayor saying "My job is to watch the police" in Texas.
The aftermath would probably have to be collected with a squeegee. :x
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on February 18, 2013, 07:22:34 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 18, 2013, 06:54:10 PM
Quote from: Cain on February 18, 2013, 06:21:31 PM
Which, of course, puts them on roughly an equal footing with the Mafia.
Don Corleone was a keeper of the peace, after all.
No argument here.
Tucson's PD was just about perfect when Walkup was mayor ("My job is to watch the police"), but now Rothschild is in ("The commissioner knows what he's doing"), and now it's sliding back into the old days of graft and senseless brutality.
Tries to imagine a mayor saying "My job is to watch the police" in Texas.
The aftermath would probably have to be collected with a squeegee. :x
Mayor Walkup was 320 pounds of angry fat man. You don't fuck with an angry fat man in Tucson.
Because, seriously, they're fat for a reason.
Quote from: Junkenstein on February 11, 2013, 06:41:22 PM
I'm inclined to think there's something in it, finding it between the crazy is another matter.
Time to break out the :zombie:
Shit, I was looking for popcorn, but this is just as likely I guess.
Reflecting upon this with friends this eve, I realised I totally fucking called it.
However I am now forced to assume this to be the eventual result of all future LAPD activity.
http://wtkr.com/2013/02/19/gov-to-sign-bill-banning-unmanned-drones-from-flying-over-state/
QuoteGovernor McDonnell is expected to sign a bill today banning unmanned drones from flying over the state.
The bill bans local and state police from using drones to track suspects until at least 2015 with some exceptions.
They can use them during an emergency situation like an "Amber Alert."
The National Guard can operate them for training purposes.
What would be classed as an "Amber Alert"?
Child abduction.
Quote from: WikipediaAn AMBER Alert or a Child Abduction Emergency (SAME code: CAE) is a child abduction alert bulletin in several countries throughout the world, issued upon the suspected abduction of a child, since 1996. AMBER is officially a backronym for "America's Missing: Broadcasting Emergency Response" but was originally named for Amber Hagerman, a 9-year-old child who was abducted and murdered in Arlington, Texas in 1996.
AMBER Alerts are distributed via commercial radio stations, Internet radio, satellite radio, television stations, and cable TV by the Emergency Alert System and NOAA Weather Radio[4][5] (where they are termed "Child Abduction Emergency" or "Amber Alerts"). The alerts are also issued via e-mail, electronic traffic-condition signs, the LED billboards which are located outside of newer Walgreens locations,[6] along with the LED/LCD signs of billboard companies such as Clear Channel Outdoor, CBS Outdoor and Lamar,[7] or through wireless device SMS text messages. AMBER Alert has also teamed up with Google[8] and Facebook [9]to relay information regarding an AMBER Alert to an ever growing demographic.
So this would extend to "missing" children fairly easily I guess?
amber alerts are, from what i've heard, pretty effective.
i know they're freaking pervasive.
you'll be driving down the road, and the radio will cut to an alert describing the child, last known location, and usually the description of a car/license plate to be on the lookout for. then it shows up on the LED billboards (which damn near a quarter of them are, here in DFW), and also the road signs that give traffic updates flash the make/model/license. it's damn near impossible to not look around and see if that car's around you, so i can see why it's a hell of a tool that casts a wide and effective net.
lately i noticed that the signs (but not the radio) have been alerting to 'missing elderly' as well, giving the vehicle descriptions.
Well, as anyone who has ever watched a cop show knows, the first 24 hours of a kidnapping are the most critical.
If it's for profit, you can get the kidnappers before they manage to stash the child somewhere safe and isolated. If it's for more perverse reasons, you can usually rescue the child while they are still alive. Either way, the Amber Alerts are a fairly good idea.
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on February 21, 2013, 02:37:42 PM
amber alerts are, from what i've heard, pretty effective.
i know they're freaking pervasive.
you'll be driving down the road, and the radio will cut to an alert describing the child, last known location, and usually the description of a car/license plate to be on the lookout for. then it shows up on the LED billboards (which damn near a quarter of them are, here in DFW), and also the road signs that give traffic updates flash the make/model/license. it's damn near impossible to not look around and see if that car's around you, so i can see why it's a hell of a tool that casts a wide and effective net.
lately i noticed that the signs (but not the radio) have been alerting to 'missing elderly' as well, giving the vehicle descriptions.
I heard one recently. They called it a "silver alert".
Amber Alerts are great, but with this, they might broaden them to include all kinds of shit, like non-custodial parents stuck in traffic trying to get the kid home after a legit visit.
Stelz
Knows Amurka(TM).
a 'silver alert'? that's.... i dunno, it sounds... patronizing?
when i first saw one it struck me as odd. the CT lobe in my brain kicked in, and it seemed to me that if i were the authority and wanted to put out an APB to the general public with impunity (i.e. find this person for me and never-you-mind why) i would do it under the auspice of a missing elderly person. it conjures the image of a confused old person driving their land yacht when they are supposed to be monitored at all times for their own safety.
it hits the feel good center because you are helping a helpless person.
it hits the fear proactive center in that you are removing a potential threat on the road.
it doesn't hit the fear avoidance center that might prevent someone from involving themselves in reporting a crime like kidnapping.
i'd be curious to see numbers on the effective difference in putting out an alert for a vehicle under missing child v. missing elderly....
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/21/17048962-al-qaidas-22-tips-on-how-to-avoid-drones?lite
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 22, 2013, 02:17:35 PM
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/21/17048962-al-qaidas-22-tips-on-how-to-avoid-drones?lite
interesting. i like how they are planting trees as part of their strategy to protect themselves from the drones. perhaps a PR campaign needs to be engineered showing smiling AQ fighters planting trees in an environmentalist pastiche. could cause some interesting mental states in some people....
Some interesting info on the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department:
https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/sbcs
QuoteSBCS is in charge of policing Victorville and the surrounding subprime desert, so I know a thing or two about the force. If Dorner thought the Los Angeles Police Department was racist, corrupt and violent, well...
Dealing with the SBCS is like taking a trip to the deep South, minus the southern hospitality and charm. The force is staffed by a tight good ol' boys network drawn from a base of white ultra-conservative ex-military types, overseen by corrupt judges and a municipal government that's deep in the pocket of ruthless real estate speculators. It's distinguished by brazen graft, police brutality and a general disregard for lawful policing.
SBCS deputies once drew their guns on NSFWCORP senior editor Mark Ames while he was a guest at my double-wide trailer in Victorville back in 2010. They grabbed him while he was taking a walk around the neighborhood, saying that he matched a description of some car thief operating in the area. They cuffed him, then took his keys, entered my house without a warrant, rifled through my undies and inspected my closets. In the end, they found a small stash of what appeared to be marijuana and, it has been alleged, a mysterious white crystalline powder piled on a small mirror, along with an Iranian banknote nailed to the wall — but apparently got spooked by Ames' journalistic bonafides, particularly when one of the deputies recognized him from MSNBC. They let him go with a stern warning.
That's a nice find, as is the Ames piece. It seems that large teritorial boundaries with little oversight can cause corruption.
Drone discussion is gathering some momentum it seems. By momentum, I mean op-ed pieces of the usual varites and opinions. This is a typical example:
http://www.thedailydolt.com/2013/02/22/slate-editors-invent-strange-new-form-of-logic/
Various similar, I just liked this in particular:
QuoteNow, some might argue that killing fewer civilians is not actually saving any lives, it's just killing fewer people than a clumsier method might. But look at it this way: Imagine you're driving a 1974 Dodge Monaco at full speed around a busy shopping mall. Some people might criticize you for that, too. Some people might get all hysterical and scream things like, "That's so dangerous!" or "What are you doing?!" or "OH MY GOD, you just ran over that elderly man right there. I think he's dead now. Is he moving? He's not moving."
But these people would be missing the point. The point is, think of all the lives you just saved by not driving a Hummer.
Yeah, I've heard some awful shit about law enforcement in Victorville, etc. Not surprised.
http://news.yahoo.com/report-uk-stripping-terrorism-suspects-citizenship-us-killing-214324081.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/british-terror-suspects-quietly-stripped-of-citizenship-then-killed-by-drones-8513858.html
Independent:
QuoteThe Government has secretly ramped up a controversial programme that strips people of their British citizenship on national security grounds – with two of the men subsequently killed by American drone attacks.
An investigation by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism for The Independent has established that since 2010, the Home Secretary, Theresa May, has revoked the passports of 16 individuals, many of whom are alleged to have had links to militant or terrorist groups.
Critics of the programme warn that it allows ministers to "wash their hands" of British nationals suspected of terrorism who could be subject to torture and illegal detention abroad.
I assume if the UK is taking this kind of stance, other EU countries will be as well.
The future looks to be increasingly filled with distant impersonal death.
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 01, 2013, 09:15:07 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/report-uk-stripping-terrorism-suspects-citizenship-us-killing-214324081.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/british-terror-suspects-quietly-stripped-of-citizenship-then-killed-by-drones-8513858.html
Independent:
QuoteThe Government has secretly ramped up a controversial programme that strips people of their British citizenship on national security grounds – with two of the men subsequently killed by American drone attacks.
An investigation by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism for The Independent has established that since 2010, the Home Secretary, Theresa May, has revoked the passports of 16 individuals, many of whom are alleged to have had links to militant or terrorist groups.
Critics of the programme warn that it allows ministers to "wash their hands" of British nationals suspected of terrorism who could be subject to torture and illegal detention abroad.
I assume if the UK is taking this kind of stance, other EU countries will be as well.
The future looks to be increasingly filled with distant impersonal death.
It's been that way since they invented archery. All that's changed is the distance. Chalk it down to progress. Killing other humans is an fundamental characteristic of our species. Always has been (probably) always will be. We're getting better at it - go team primate!
Pissing and moaning about it, however is a relatively new thing. Our morality is now in direct conflict with our basic biology. Biology trumps intellectual bullshit for the foreseeable future.
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 01, 2013, 09:15:07 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/report-uk-stripping-terrorism-suspects-citizenship-us-killing-214324081.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/british-terror-suspects-quietly-stripped-of-citizenship-then-killed-by-drones-8513858.html
Independent:
QuoteThe Government has secretly ramped up a controversial programme that strips people of their British citizenship on national security grounds – with two of the men subsequently killed by American drone attacks.
An investigation by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism for The Independent has established that since 2010, the Home Secretary, Theresa May, has revoked the passports of 16 individuals, many of whom are alleged to have had links to militant or terrorist groups.
Critics of the programme warn that it allows ministers to "wash their hands" of British nationals suspected of terrorism who could be subject to torture and illegal detention abroad.
I assume if the UK is taking this kind of stance, other EU countries will be as well.
The future looks to be increasingly filled with distant impersonal death.
Wonderful.
Well, it looks like these are the drones my cops are going to use right here in river city...
http://www.gizmag.com/arlington-tx-police-uav-faa/26665/
the 'Leptron Avenger'. couldn't they have chosen a more innocuous name?
(http://images.gizmag.com/hero/arlington_tx_police_uav_closeup.jpg)
If it's not named something vaguely menacing, it clearly isn't for your own protection.
Unfortunately, for anyone who has played Mass Effect, the name "Avenger" is used for the standard starting assault rifle, and so is not menacing at all. It in fact has the second lowest DPS in the game, and frequently derided by players as being utterly useless, unless used to beat enemies over the head with it.
I cannot take anything named the Avenger as a serious threat as a result.
which is all the more disappointing, because those dangerous video game players are the precise ones we want to instill fear in!
come to think of it, i would imagine that most people would find the name nonthreatening because it conjures images in their minds of beneficent men in underwear saving the world, due to recent hollywood offerings.
Puts me in mind of what a bunch of engineer dweebs with Rambo complexes would sit around and think up.
:lulz:
Indeed. Much like Thor, they fly around, keeping a benevolent eye on everyone.
Clearly we need some kind of drone registry system...