Something is wrong.
Inside my head.
And I can't figure out what it is.
There's something nagging at me, something not quite right that's keeping me off balance and making me cranky. But there's nothing obvious going on that would do that. My marriage is going well, there are no money problems, the Frost Heaves will be releasing a new album next month, dontchewcords has another gig this Friday, my fabulous friends are still fabulous, and I've been pain free from my various joint problems for at least a couple of years now.
But I'm still feeling like I'm just spinning my wheels. I'm getting this hollow feeling creeping up, like nothing's really happening. Every day is different, I'm doing new stuff all the time, I'm creating, I'm performing, I'm recording, I'm dancing... But I'm feeling like it's all the same-- just grey, empty space in my head. Since stuff is actually happening to me and I'm not curled up into a ball on the couch suffocating my brain with reality TV, I can only conclude that something is bothering me that's bigger than physical movement and new experiences. A few possibilities:
1) Its a new form of grieving. Dad's been dead for a couple of years, and there's a him-shaped hole in the world, and it's getting bigger.
2) Connected to the above and conflated with some of Roger's rants, I've been doing things, but I haven't been doing things. I haven't done enough to leave a mark on the world, and all my book and music projects have been essentially selfish flights of narcissism, doing things to say I did them, not to actually change anything.
3) I'm worried about my health, but I haven't been doing what I know I should be doing. I should lose 20-30 pounds, cut back on the alcohol, eat healthier, and all the rest, but I'm simply not doing it – especially the cutting back on alcohol bit. Which prompts quiet anxiety that I may be turning into (or I may be) a functioning alcoholic, which we know usually turns into a non-functioning alcoholic.
4) Biological clock. What's missing is a child.
5) My brain chemicals are screwy, and I'm sliding into depression.
6) I'm not getting enough sleep.
I figure number six and number three are the easiest things to check, although number three has been on the To Do list for about a decade now, so "easiest" is a fairly relative term. But there. I've written it down. Something's up with my headstate.
What's the possibility of this being a winter thing?
Cold, grey, lifeless, and awful for a few months? The days are getting longer, but we won't be seeing anything green for over a month.
As someone who has his own difficulties inside his own head, I have no authority to even comment on this, buuuuut, I will.
Number 2 could be the big problem. I say this because I've been feeling similar to what you describe in the body and in the number 2 entry of your op. And, for me, this sounds like an accurate diagnoses. For you, it may be different.
As far as numbers 1 and 4, I think these may be separate issues that are adding to the confusion. I'd say set them aside for now while you're thinking it over. If you don't find a solution in the remaining possibilities, then get back to these.
But again, plz to take with grain of salt, I may not know what I'm talking about.
Welcome, my friend, to the February of 40-something male life.
It hides behind a door, you see, and then whacks you with a sock full of dimes. One day you're fine, life is this great big thing stretching out in front of you, and then BAM! You're looking back down the road you just walked up, second guessing yourself and wishing you were a few miles back down the way you came.
But you can't do that, of course, and you look damn silly if you try.
It's not that the fun stopped...It's that the fun changed, and you have to change with it. Consider: When you were a kid, you may have thought that when you were grown up, you'd buy ice cream every day. Then when you became an adult, and could do that...Well, you didn't want that anymore, as that is the wish of a child, not the desire of an adult.
And then you hit 40 or so, and you feel like you're treading water, because none of your childhood wishes apply anymore.
The TRUTH is, this is the BEST time of your life, because you have no set preconceptions of what to do...And if you can avoid the two most common traps waiting for you, you can do ANY DAMN THING YOU WANT.
Those traps are:
1. Denying that you've reached this point, and trying to act like a 25 year old. Goofy fuckers.
2. Deciding that you're OLD and SERIOUS now, and joining the Tea Party, or some other fucked up collection of walking midlife crisises.
No, the trick is to take a little while and think about it. What do you WANT to do? This age is the ONLY FUCKING TIME you get to make that choice, so choose wisely.
And as for your old man...Well, I can't help you there. I could make trite comments about a religion neither you nor he believe(d) in, or maybe ask if he'd be pleased by you spending so much time and emotional energy dwelling on his death...But to what end? It wouldn't make you feel any better.
I can't imagine that hole will stop getting larger until you fit in it. Because that, ultimately, is what sons and daughters do. They take our place when we die, and they carry on. Rinse, repeat, hey, welcome to the human condition.
So, anyway, that's about all I have to say about this, except that you need to THINK and DECIDE, and then DO.
But there's no hurry. You have pretty much the rest of your life to figure it out. I sure as fuck haven't managed to properly decide yet.
Could be a combination of things. Eocs input is pretty valid too. We havent had a bad winter all things considered but i know i dont like being outside in this. Just look out a window right now (im waiting for the bus). Its gloomy. I know i sure as hell want it to be spring.
And the sleep thing and the alcohol thing tend to aggravate each other. Alcohol is primarily a 25-something form of entertainment, and doesn't treat you well in middle age. Just saying.
Also, check PMs.
Six will help the rest. Start there, if you want my two cents. Give your brain a chance to reset and it will help you figure out what's going on with the other things. Take care of yourself, LMNO
It also occurs to me that if I had a job that fufilled me and gives me a sense of personal satisfaction and accomplishment, I wouldn't need to stay up half the night doing things that do all that.
Does it feel kind of "flat"? Because I've been getting the same thing lately.
Nothing excites me much. Nothing upsets me much. It's all the same.
Wondering WTF that is.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 25, 2013, 08:06:20 PM
It also occurs to me that if I had a job that fufilled me and gives me a sense of personal satisfaction and accomplishment, I wouldn't need to stay up half the night doing things that do all that.
Do your job. Make the universe pay on the weekend.
Hell, I work in a place where the equipment blows the fuck up and sprays acid everywhere. Then you blow budget getting it going again, and it does the SAME FUCKING THING a month later. Imagine how horny that makes me. Imagine how THRILLED I am.
But my daughter has a year and a half left in high school, so here I am, doing the impossible for the ungrateful on unpaid overtime.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 25, 2013, 08:25:04 PM
so here I am, doing the impossible for the ungrateful on unpaid overtime.
I'm kind of loving this right now.
Don't they have some kind of accelerated program your daughter could get into?
My daughter got into a thing where she could work at her own pace and she finished up early, even with copious fucking off.
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on February 25, 2013, 08:29:26 PM
Don't they have some kind of accelerated program your daughter could get into?
My daughter got into a thing where she could work at her own pace and she finished up early, even with copious fucking off.
She's enjoying high school with her friends. I can do that much for her.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 25, 2013, 07:23:54 PM
Welcome, my friend, to the February of 40-something male life.
It hides behind a door, you see, and then whacks you with a sock full of dimes. One day you're fine, life is this great big thing stretching out in front of you, and then BAM! You're looking back down the road you just walked up, second guessing yourself and wishing you were a few miles back down the way you came.
But you can't do that, of course, and you look damn silly if you try.
It's not that the fun stopped...It's that the fun changed, and you have to change with it. Consider: When you were a kid, you may have thought that when you were grown up, you'd buy ice cream every day. Then when you became an adult, and could do that...Well, you didn't want that anymore, as that is the wish of a child, not the desire of an adult.
And then you hit 40 or so, and you feel like you're treading water, because none of your childhood wishes apply anymore.
The TRUTH is, this is the BEST time of your life, because you have no set preconceptions of what to do...And if you can avoid the two most common traps waiting for you, you can do ANY DAMN THING YOU WANT.
Those traps are:
1. Denying that you've reached this point, and trying to act like a 25 year old. Goofy fuckers.
2. Deciding that you're OLD and SERIOUS now, and joining the Tea Party, or some other fucked up collection of walking midlife crisises.
No, the trick is to take a little while and think about it. What do you WANT to do? This age is the ONLY FUCKING TIME you get to make that choice, so choose wisely.
And as for your old man...Well, I can't help you there. I could make trite comments about a religion neither you nor he believe(d) in, or maybe ask if he'd be pleased by you spending so much time and emotional energy dwelling on his death...But to what end? It wouldn't make you feel any better.
I can't imagine that hole will stop getting larger until you fit in it. Because that, ultimately, is what sons and daughters do. They take our place when we die, and they carry on. Rinse, repeat, hey, welcome to the human condition.
So, anyway, that's about all I have to say about this, except that you need to THINK and DECIDE, and then DO.
But there's no hurry. You have pretty much the rest of your life to figure it out. I sure as fuck haven't managed to properly decide yet.
QFT
Well, the thing is to THINK. Something we are always convinced there isn't time to do.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 25, 2013, 08:31:26 PM
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on February 25, 2013, 08:29:26 PM
Don't they have some kind of accelerated program your daughter could get into?
My daughter got into a thing where she could work at her own pace and she finished up early, even with copious fucking off.
She's enjoying high school with her friends. I can do that much for her.
Ah, that's another story. :)
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on February 25, 2013, 09:17:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 25, 2013, 08:31:26 PM
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on February 25, 2013, 08:29:26 PM
Don't they have some kind of accelerated program your daughter could get into?
My daughter got into a thing where she could work at her own pace and she finished up early, even with copious fucking off.
She's enjoying high school with her friends. I can do that much for her.
Ah, that's another story. :)
Yes, and I can see how that might be an unlikely situation in the great metropolis of Seguin. Something tells me the high schools and their inmates are slightly different.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 25, 2013, 09:20:48 PM
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on February 25, 2013, 09:17:00 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on February 25, 2013, 08:31:26 PM
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on February 25, 2013, 08:29:26 PM
Don't they have some kind of accelerated program your daughter could get into?
My daughter got into a thing where she could work at her own pace and she finished up early, even with copious fucking off.
She's enjoying high school with her friends. I can do that much for her.
Ah, that's another story. :)
Yes, and I can see how that might be an unlikely situation in the great metropolis of Seguin. Something tells me the high schools and their inmates are slightly different.
Yes.
They normally make kids wait until they're 18 to go to the self paced thing, but she got to go early. Officially because she has a high IQ but she was still flunking out, but the real reason is that they didn't want to deal with her and she didn't *quite* let them get enough on her to send her off to TYC.
Before that, from about sixth grade on, the object was to be "punished" by being sent to alternative school, where they actually treated the kids BETTER and it was possible to get through the day without going off on some moron teacher. We were always overjoyed when she got sent to A school.
I've had something similar happen a few times.
when I was about 20, my brain went into a funk for awhile. At the worst I contemplated suicide. I relieved the issue by getting a new girlfriend. Seems looking back that the brain problems were caused by testosterone issues, and having a new girlfriend helped with that.
had it happen again when I was about 32. I got out of the army, and I'm thinking at the time it was a result of longterm mental and psychological abuse at the hands of loving members of the military.
had it happen again in 1997 when i started having chronic migraines. turns out that feeling like an icepick stabbing in the side of your head over and over multiple times a week can really mess you up.
happened again when my dad and brother died in the same year. Grief can screw you over bigtime as well.
and it happened again this year. this time I'm mostly righted again. Turns out I had a Vitamin D3 deficiency. I dunno why that would fix things, but simply taking Vitamin D3 has helped massively with bad brain state this year.
The point I'm trying to make is that you are not the best detector of the cause of the problem when your brain is the one that is fucking up. So many possibilities, and it's much easier to narrow down when you have help than when you don't.
Get help where you can find it. I wish you the best.
Admirable troofpaste in here so far.
My own contribution is less grounded, but from what I've observed it seems to be the way things are. Sometimes the wind shifts. It doesn't make sense, it shouldn't happen, but it just DOES. Or the gravity starts going the wrong way. Or that little stream you stepped into starts to sweep you away. It doesn't make sense, but a bit of life you thought was a constant changes for a short while. When this happens some folks will go to their grave spouting "no, it shouldn't do that..." as it bowls them over or drags them under. The way out is to accept it then see how you can exploit it. All of you watch your asses for the next few days, OK?
Quote from: Richter on February 26, 2013, 01:58:22 AM
Admirable troofpaste in here so far.
My own contribution is less grounded, but from what I've observed it seems to be the way things are. Sometimes the wind shifts. It doesn't make sense, it shouldn't happen, but it just DOES. Or the gravity starts going the wrong way. Or that little stream you stepped into starts to sweep you away. It doesn't make sense, but a bit of life you thought was a constant changes for a short while. When this happens some folks will go to their grave spouting "no, it shouldn't do that..." as it bowls them over or drags them under. The way out is to accept it then see how you can exploit it. All of you watch your asses for the next few days, OK?
This got me thinking ... Humans, like bodies in motion, seek rest. Instinctively, they seek routine, status quo, they resist change. This is not necessarily what's best for them but, if they manage to get some they'll hang onto it for dear life, whilst it sucks them down all the while. Then something changes and panic sets in. Don't panic. Change (even bad change) is good for you. Embrace the chaos.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 25, 2013, 06:47:07 PM
1) Its a new form of grieving. Dad's been dead for a couple of years, and there's a him-shaped hole in the world, and it's getting bigger.
2) Connected to the above and conflated with some of Roger's rants, I've been doing things, but I haven't been doing things. I haven't done enough to leave a mark on the world, and all my book and music projects have been essentially selfish flights of narcissism, doing things to say I did them, not to actually change anything.
3) I'm worried about my health, but I haven't been doing what I know I should be doing. I should lose 20-30 pounds, cut back on the alcohol, eat healthier, and all the rest, but I'm simply not doing it – especially the cutting back on alcohol bit. Which prompts quiet anxiety that I may be turning into (or I may be) a functioning alcoholic, which we know usually turns into a non-functioning alcoholic.
4) Biological clock. What's missing is a child.
5) My brain chemicals are screwy, and I'm sliding into depression.
6) I'm not getting enough sleep.
I figure number six and number three are the easiest things to check, although number three has been on the To Do list for about a decade now, so "easiest" is a fairly relative term. But there. I've written it down. Something's up with my headstate.
Fix 6 first. (easy fixes are great for getting started) also, this should give you the energy to do 2 (and/or realize that lots of what you do is already worthwhile but you were to tired to notice)
Get a psychiatrist or something to check for depression.
One of alcohol's long term effects is a reduced capacity to enjoy. More alcohol is an effective but very stupid short term fix for this.
Shit, got to get back to work.
Feel better soon.
LMNO, you sound like me about two years ago, except for the marriage part. I think Roger hit the nail on the head... happens to women too. And you bring up the job satisfaction thing, which is huge.
You may not need as much sleep as you used to, but I agree that you should start there. 5-HTP and a magnesium supplement helped my sleep immeasurably, FWIW.
As you get older alcohol is going to be more and more your enemy... but if you're anything like me, you'll need something to fill its place. Not in terms of chemical satisfaction, but in terms of SOMETHING TO DO. I realized that I was drinking because I was bored. Now I try (with some failures, usually spectacular) not to drink very much or very often at home, I don't go out much, and most of the time I do homework, watch movies, or read instead. If that sounds like I've become boring... well, sure. That's kind of true. I'm at peace with that.
As far as kids go... many of my friends are just now having them, which seems weird to me because I'm so so done with babies. But all I'm saying is that if that's still something you guys want, there's always the adoption route, and you won't be the oldest parents on the playground by any means. There is also the option of volunteering with homeless or disadvantaged youth, which is not like parenting but can be remarkably fulfilling, because in a way changing the life of homeless kids can leave a greater legacy than having your own.
But I haven't addressed the big one, the one that I think is at the heart of your discontent. Your job. It's not fulfilling, and in America we have somehow fallen upon this notion that what a man does is not who he is. But if we spend 8-12 hours a day devoting by far the largest part of our cognitive and physical energy toward a task, how can it not affect who we are? And if we don't find it fulfilling and rewarding, in ways more meaningful than monetary, there is no question that it will have a negative impact on our overall well-being.
I suspect that this is the primary reason you don't cut back your drinking, eat better, get more sleep, exercise more. It's because you're psychologically stuck, and your job is the main thing sticking you.
You're still plenty young enough for a career change. Take it from me. Or hell, look at John Cacioppo, my hero, the world's leading social neuroscientist, who is on his third career... the previous two seemingly unrelated.
I agree with Nigel on the job thing. I used to want to "make a difference" and have a "fulfilling job" you know what? Fuck that shit. I want paid. I'm happiest doing the bare minimum to make that happen now because my life (the only bit that matters) is evenings and weekends. My career is a fucking waste of time that I lump in with sleep and forget about. It's like taking a shit - something I have to do but not something I have to enjoy, or even stay awake during.
arent you saying the exact opposite of what Nigel is saying?
:?
I was wondering the same thing. And incidentally, I pretty much am doing it the P3nt way -- I've got a job I don't much care about, can spend a relatively large amount of time on PD.com, allows for the occasional two-hour, two-beer lunch, and pays me.
I kind of like Nigel and Roger's advice right now.
I'm going spider hunting in my own skull.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 26, 2013, 05:03:43 PM
I was wondering the same thing. And incidentally, I pretty much am doing it the P3nt way -- I've got a job I don't much care about, can spend a relatively large amount of time on PD.com, allows for the occasional two-hour, two-beer lunch, and pays me.
I kind of like Nigel and Roger's advice right now.
I'm going spider hunting in my own skull.
Careful. There's
things down in there that are better left alone. Trust me on this.
I think Nigel and Roger are right about the job. Doing something that fulfills you may very well fix or at least ease the psychological thingies, though a change in career is probably the hardest thing to do.
Fwiw, doing something I found fulfilling helped my head brain a bit.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 25, 2013, 06:47:07 PM
nothing obvious going on
just spinning my wheels.
nothing's really happening.
But I'm feeling like it's all the same-- just grey, empty space in my head.
There it is! Your "problem".
This isn't about your job, dad of anything outside yourself, so you really can't find the solution from anywhere.
The problem is that you don't really have a problem and what you are starting to feel is actually emptiness, freedom from problems.
Now you have to be fast and find a new problem or you might end up calm!
Hurry up!
And don't forget to feel anxious for not knowing everything. It's important!
Learn from other people. Almost everybody has amazing problems everywhere, you can just pick the best ones.
They are all tested on humans.
And basically, you should do something stupid, because that usually helps people to get into problems.
I don't know, like drink stuff and vomit on something.
Well, I just got seven hours of sleep for the first time in about two weeks. I may have located a big part of the problem.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 27, 2013, 01:01:12 PM
Well, I just got seven hours of sleep for the first time in about two weeks. I may have located a big part of the problem.
bear in mind that it can take a couple weeks of solid sleep to fully recover from the effects of sleep deprivation...
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 27, 2013, 01:01:12 PM
Well, I just got seven hours of sleep for the first time in about two weeks. I may have located a big part of the problem.
Sleep well, sleep often!
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on February 28, 2013, 04:50:22 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 27, 2013, 01:01:12 PM
Well, I just got seven hours of sleep for the first time in about two weeks. I may have located a big part of the problem.
Sleep well, sleep often!
I'd concur but, looking at the clock....
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on February 27, 2013, 04:25:10 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 27, 2013, 01:01:12 PM
Well, I just got seven hours of sleep for the first time in about two weeks. I may have located a big part of the problem.
bear in mind that it can take a couple weeks of solid sleep to fully recover from the effects of sleep deprivation...
OH GOD I HAVE TO DO THE THING
FORGIVE ME
Actually, even severe sleep deprivation can usually be fully recovered from with just a few nights of normal sleep. Many people make the mistake of thinking that you need to "catch up", but this is actually counterproductive, because oversleeping has very similar effects on the body as undersleeping.
Yeah, you never catch up. The best you can do is get a regular schedule going of however many solid hours you need, six to eight-ish.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on February 28, 2013, 06:23:27 AM
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on February 27, 2013, 04:25:10 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 27, 2013, 01:01:12 PM
Well, I just got seven hours of sleep for the first time in about two weeks. I may have located a big part of the problem.
bear in mind that it can take a couple weeks of solid sleep to fully recover from the effects of sleep deprivation...
OH GOD I HAVE TO DO THE THING
FORGIVE ME
Actually, even severe sleep deprivation can usually be fully recovered from with just a few nights of normal sleep. Many people make the mistake of thinking that you need to "catch up", but this is actually counterproductive, because oversleeping has very similar effects on the body as undersleeping.
HAH, I fucking knew it! This is why "early nights" suck for me :eek:
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on February 28, 2013, 06:23:27 AM
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on February 27, 2013, 04:25:10 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 27, 2013, 01:01:12 PM
Well, I just got seven hours of sleep for the first time in about two weeks. I may have located a big part of the problem.
bear in mind that it can take a couple weeks of solid sleep to fully recover from the effects of sleep deprivation...
OH GOD I HAVE TO DO THE THING
FORGIVE ME
Actually, even severe sleep deprivation can usually be fully recovered from with just a few nights of normal sleep. Many people make the mistake of thinking that you need to "catch up", but this is actually counterproductive, because oversleeping has very similar effects on the body as undersleeping.
QFT and you beat me to it :P
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on February 28, 2013, 06:23:27 AM
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on February 27, 2013, 04:25:10 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 27, 2013, 01:01:12 PM
Well, I just got seven hours of sleep for the first time in about two weeks. I may have located a big part of the problem.
bear in mind that it can take a couple weeks of solid sleep to fully recover from the effects of sleep deprivation...
OH GOD I HAVE TO DO THE THING
FORGIVE ME
Actually, even severe sleep deprivation can usually be fully recovered from with just a few nights of normal sleep. Many people make the mistake of thinking that you need to "catch up", but this is actually counterproductive, because oversleeping has very similar effects on the body as undersleeping.
I don't have any expertise, but i was just parroting what my dad's doctor told him who is a .... somnologist (?).
he did indeed say that you shouldn't 'catch up' by sleeping for long periods. that just further screws up your rhythms.
you should sleep what you should have been sleeping all along. he said you will feel better quickly, but the effects of sleep deprivation can linger for a couple weeks before they are no longer significant enough to be measurable.
of course, i'm not an expert, so take that with a grain of salt. i'm certainly not the smartest guy in the forum.
perhaps 'solid sleep' was taken to mean 'a shitload of sleep'? i guess i could have phrased that better...
Also - alcohol =/= sleeping-pills substitute
Something about you don't sleep properly when drunk to the point where it practically counts as not sleeping at all
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on February 28, 2013, 02:44:37 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on February 28, 2013, 06:23:27 AM
Quote from: Elder Iptuous on February 27, 2013, 04:25:10 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on February 27, 2013, 01:01:12 PM
Well, I just got seven hours of sleep for the first time in about two weeks. I may have located a big part of the problem.
bear in mind that it can take a couple weeks of solid sleep to fully recover from the effects of sleep deprivation...
OH GOD I HAVE TO DO THE THING
FORGIVE ME
Actually, even severe sleep deprivation can usually be fully recovered from with just a few nights of normal sleep. Many people make the mistake of thinking that you need to "catch up", but this is actually counterproductive, because oversleeping has very similar effects on the body as undersleeping.
I don't have any expertise, but i was just parroting what my dad's doctor told him who is a .... somnologist (?).
he did indeed say that you shouldn't 'catch up' by sleeping for long periods. that just further screws up your rhythms.
you should sleep what you should have been sleeping all along. he said you will feel better quickly, but the effects of sleep deprivation can linger for a couple weeks before they are no longer significant enough to be measurable.
of course, i'm not an expert, so take that with a grain of salt. i'm certainly not the smartest guy in the forum.
perhaps 'solid sleep' was taken to mean 'a shitload of sleep'? i guess i could have phrased that better...
Yeah, I took "solid sleep" to mean "extended sleep", particularly because that is the common impression people have of recovering from sleep debt.
I can't address what your dad's sleep specialist said about recovery time or resetting your sleep schedule, because that's going to be unique to each person's situation. However, neurologically speaking, if you are looking at mild chronic sleep debt which is what LMNO describes, it really shouldn't take more than two or three nights of adequate sleep for his neurocognitive functioning to be restored to normal. It might take a little longer for his immune system to catch up, but I'd be surprised.
Keep in mind that almost all studies done on recovery sleep are done under circumstances of controlled acute sleep deprivation, and those data may be useful but can also be misleading if applied to mild chronic sleep dept.
While we're talking about the sleep issue: Hey LMNO, do you still own an iPhone? I recently downloaded an app for a buck called Sleep Cycle that so far seems to work really well. It uses the iPhone's motion sensor to detect what part of the sleep cycle you're in, and sets the alarm off when you're the most "awake" already (i.e. not in REM sleep).
I'm no expert, but from what I understand the mornings where it feels the absolute shittiest to even move (other than hangovers), much less get out of bed, are when a person is woken out of REM sleep.
Hey, does anybody have any insights on this?
If I sleep about 7 hours straight through, I'm good. If I sleep a few hours, get fully awakened for some reason, go back to sleep after that and sleep the remaining hours, I still feel like I had a four hour night the next day. My brain doesn't work right. I start to say things and forget the fucking point I was trying to make, even if I slept 7 or even 8 hours total.
What the fuck is that?
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on March 06, 2013, 03:30:51 AM
Hey, does anybody have any insights on this?
If I sleep about 7 hours straight through, I'm good. If I sleep a few hours, get fully awakened for some reason, go back to sleep after that and sleep the remaining hours, I still feel like I had a four hour night the next day. My brain doesn't work right. I start to say things and forget the fucking point I was trying to make, even if I slept 7 or even 8 hours total.
What the fuck is that?
From what I understand, that's also connected to the REM (Rapid Eye Movement, aka dreaming) sleep phase. It takes a few hours for the brain to settle into it, so you're really only getting the "best" part of your sleep from the last few hours of a full night's sleep.
Take that all with a grain of salt, as it's based entirely on "I read a thing once and I think it said..."
I think cainads got it right. It's "uninterrupted" sleep that gives benefits.
Quote from: Pope Partum Depression on March 06, 2013, 03:30:51 AM
Hey, does anybody have any insights on this?
If I sleep about 7 hours straight through, I'm good. If I sleep a few hours, get fully awakened for some reason, go back to sleep after that and sleep the remaining hours, I still feel like I had a four hour night the next day. My brain doesn't work right. I start to say things and forget the fucking point I was trying to make, even if I slept 7 or even 8 hours total.
What the fuck is that?
It's because if you were awakened out of the wrong part of sleep, it essentially interrupted a 3-hour sleep rhythm, so that you functionally lose far more than the amount of sleep you missed.
http://www.sleepdex.org/stages.htm
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 06, 2013, 04:25:30 AM
I think cainads got it right. It's "uninterrupted" sleep that gives benefits.
Nope. It's the phase of sleep that you are disturbed or awakened at.
You can get sufficient uninterrupted sleep but wake up in the deepest phase of sleep and feel groggy all day.
You can also get disturbed in the middle of the night during a light sleep cycle and also wake up in the lightest phase of sleep and feel fucking fantastic.
I've developed a fairly reliable formula for myself: I set my alarm based on a total sleep time that is perfectly divisible by 90 minutes. So if I have to get up at 10am and it's 3am now, I divide that 7 hours or 420 minute span by 90 minutes which is 4.666666. I lop off the decimals and sleep for 4 combined increments of 90 minutes which is 360 minutes or 6 hours.
While it seems counter-intuitive to sleep 6 hours rather than 7, I'm fairly confident that my sleep cycles are close to 90 minutes because after 6 or 7.5 hours of sleep I feel superb. But if I wake up in between those 90 minute intervals I tend to feel sluggish all day. Even if I'm not going to get remotely enough sleep, if I stick to my 90 minute plan I wake up feeling outstanding. I'll still run out of gas later in the day, of course, but at least the first part of the day goes great. And if I hit the 7.5 hour mark exactly, the day is
mine.
Edit: basic fucking grammar and adjective variety
Holy fuck, you've really given this a lot of thought haven't you? :eek:
I wish I was that organised. I just crash out whenever and wake up when the alarm goes and sometimes I feel like shit and sometimes I feel okay. Of course sometimes I'm drunk...
Without reading the rest of the thread, just the OP, I think ALLLL of this goes away when you check off #4.
Please adopt somebody. Please. I know it's heartwrenching that you can't make your own progeny right now. Okay. Getting past that, you *can* change the world more profoundly than you know. All your ideas, all your brilliance, your musical soul, your youness, all of these can be shared and imparted on a child not of your own blood in a way no less profound than a beloved educator touches, changes and influences his protege. More so.
I don't know you in-person yet but the you I do know through your writing, perspective, music...there are volumes in you. What a waste, what a damned waste if you don't leave that with somebody. What a waste if that doesn't exist anymore in the world my own son inherits.
I mean it; even if you can't do it in Boston so you have to move out-of-state and find new jobs and take a paycut and things are hard for awhile. Find a kid who needs you two and give him these things. Build him up. Make him a thinker and a lover and a dancer like you.
<3