Hey folks,
I don't normally like to air my dirty laundry but this whole ordeal is new to me and I would greatly appreciate any advice.
My wife's father passed away last Sunday. All of last week we went through the funeral process and everything. Apparently the whole stages in the grieving process is a real thing.
For reference:
1. Denial/Isolation
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance
I think my wife and daughter are at step two. Well I KNOW my wife is--she's very out of line and things that she normally feels are out of control are amplified incredibly. Which, from what I understand, is a part of that stage...that one feels helpless and will seeks to find sense of control in one's reality.
Her reactions came out of nowhere and it was about halfway through when it hit me that this was attributed to the grief. At that point I just remained firm and allowed her to get whatever she needed to get out.
The advice I need is how to support her. So any insight you folks might offer for helping my family through this process, I'll sincerely consider. I'm not really that affected since my relationship with her father was amicable but limited. My kids are surprisingly resilient but do display some of these characteristics, albeit not to the same extent as my wife.
Thanks!! :)
You sound like you're doing it. Let her take what she needs but don't let her cross fucked up lines.
Thanks, I'm just taking it moment by moment. This whole death thing is an emotional clusterfuck on all fronts.
Only one bit of advice, but don't tip-toe around the death, or refer to it euphemistically, ie; "since your father passed away/is gone etc".
By calling it what it is, you speed up the process whereby she can accept what happened.
Quote from: Cain on March 10, 2013, 11:48:10 PM
Only one bit of advice, but don't tip-toe around the death, or refer to it euphemistically, ie; "since your father passed away/is gone etc".
By calling it what it is, you speed up the process whereby she can accept what happened.
It's a very good point. My son asked me to refer to it as 'passing away' at first but I never really referred to it that way. Luckily those around me aren't much for euphemisms...even the wife is pretty clear about what's actually going on.
A lot of folks around me prefer the Christian model and talk about heaven. I just remain steadfast in a more naturalistic position.
Thanks for the post, Cain.
I think one of the best ways to help is to make sure that everything continues as normal.
Dinner is made, laundry is done, bills are paid, etc...
Sometimes when your brain is all gummy from this stuff you forget normal things like that, but if life continues as normal it helps keep that sense that everything will be ok and life goes on.
If something gets forgotten or falls apart it can prolong the grieving.
Sorry you have to go through this stuff. :sad:
Nothing very constructive to add, but I'd second Squiddy. There's very few things as shitty as having a "bad" day and then getting something cut off or penalty charge. It's minor, but it amplifies big time and can make for some exceptional arguments.
Quote from: Sir Squid Diddimus on March 11, 2013, 06:34:16 PM
I think one of the best ways to help is to make sure that everything continues as normal.
Dinner is made, laundry is done, bills are paid, etc...
Sometimes when your brain is all gummy from this stuff you forget normal things like that, but if life continues as normal it helps keep that sense that everything will be ok and life goes on.
If something gets forgotten or falls apart it can prolong the grieving.
Sorry you have to go through this stuff. :sad:
Thanks, I appreciate it. Yesterday we pretty much rearranged our entire upstairs. The fresh slate was much needed and the whole environment just FEELS better so I think you're spot on. And yeah, you're totally right...once we get back into the routine it'll be better.
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Nothing very constructive to add, but I'd second Squiddy. There's very few things as shitty as having a "bad" day and then getting something cut off or penalty charge. It's minor, but it amplifies big time and can make for some exceptional arguments.
I hear ya. We had to completely rearrange our anniversary because of this and, not to sound whiny, but I ended up getting a god awful splinter in my thumb and had to cut it out with a razorblade. And I ALMOST said "OH THIS TOO--FUUUUCK!" but the Steve McQueen in me told me that the field surgery was fucking awesome. 8)
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:20:40 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Nothing very constructive to add, but I'd second Squiddy. There's very few things as shitty as having a "bad" day and then getting something cut off or penalty charge. It's minor, but it amplifies big time and can make for some exceptional arguments.
I hear ya. We had to completely rearrange our anniversary because of this and, not to sound whiny, but I ended up getting a god awful splinter in my thumb and had to cut it out with a razorblade. And I ALMOST said "OH THIS TOO--FUUUUCK!" but the Steve McQueen in me told me that the field surgery was fucking awesome. 8)
Steve McQueen would have dug it out with a claw hammer.
Because he's the COOLEST MAN THAT EVER LIVED.
Paul Newman wants a word with you.
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 08:29:47 PM
Paul Newman wants a word with you.
Paul Newman isn't fit to eat the peanuts out of Steve McQueen's shit.
Well, you're clearly wrong as your opinion differs to mine.
Didn't mean to jack your thread, Burns.
I don't have any advice for bereavement. When people die, I don't actually accept it or allow myself to notice it for months or years, when I realize that there's one less person walking down the Lost Highway with me.
My great-grandmother died when I was away during the gulf war. I basically forgot she existed until 2003 or so.
Ah shit. Same here man.
I'll take this to PM as this is NOT OVER.
Thread split for derail.
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 08:35:32 PM
Ah shit. Same here man.
I'll take this to PM as this is NOT OVER.
Fixed via split.
1. Nothing is cooler than Cool Hand Luke.
2. See #1.
Naw it's all good..It's about time anyway :)
put it back!! this thread was getting too serious!
This... makes my point.
Argument closed.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 11, 2013, 08:37:26 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 08:35:32 PM
Ah shit. Same here man.
I'll take this to PM as this is NOT OVER.
Fixed via split.
1. Nothing is cooler than Cool Hand Luke.
2. See #1.
i'm totally confused.
"In a bright red Porsche on Sunset I saw Steve McQueen,
I guess he's just about the coolest guy I've ever seen"
- Elton John, from the autobiographical Postcards from Richard Nixon.
You can't argue with Elton John. No.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 11, 2013, 08:23:26 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:20:40 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Nothing very constructive to add, but I'd second Squiddy. There's very few things as shitty as having a "bad" day and then getting something cut off or penalty charge. It's minor, but it amplifies big time and can make for some exceptional arguments.
I hear ya. We had to completely rearrange our anniversary because of this and, not to sound whiny, but I ended up getting a god awful splinter in my thumb and had to cut it out with a razorblade. And I ALMOST said "OH THIS TOO--FUUUUCK!" but the Steve McQueen in me told me that the field surgery was fucking awesome. 8)
Steve McQueen would have dug it out with a claw hammer.
Because he's the COOLEST MAN THAT EVER LIVED.
Fuckin A. :lol:
Something else, Burns, give her TIME. When it's somebody close like that, it can take a couple of YEARS to get used to it. (Notice I didn't say get "over" it.) The culture here goes "OK, we'll give you a few days off (if it's IMMEDIATE FAMILY - friends, less immediate family and lovers don't count) and then everything needs to be BACK TO NORMAL
(TM). If it's not, you need to go talk to somebody and they do some kind of miracle and MAKE EVERYTHING NORMAL. STAT. Toot sweet, motherfucker, or you could LOSE YOUR JERB.
So she's not only grieving, she's probably going to be dealing with THAT stupid shit. Sometimes I wish we were like those old Native Americans, you could hack off your hair and maybe a pinkie finger or something and people would UNDERSTAND when they saw you, and LEAVE YOU THE FUCK ALONE FOR AWHILE.
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 08:39:08 PM
This... makes my point.
Argument closed.
Well, I had the two old guys backward.
Paul Newman is clearly cooler.
TGRR,
Stands corrected.
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:38:08 PM
put it back!! this thread was getting too serious!
Oops. :oops:
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 11, 2013, 08:39:53 PM
"In a bright red Porsche on Sunset I saw Steve McQueen,
I guess he's just about the coolest guy I've ever seen"
- Elton John, from the autobiographical Postcards from Richard Nixon.
You can't argue with Elton John. No.
AND FUCK REGINALD WHITE!
All is forgiven, Look into his eyes and BE HEALED
(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/gallery/paul_newman/paul_newman1_300.jpg)
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:38:08 PM
put it back!! this thread was getting too serious!
Okay.
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 08:41:52 PM
All is forgiven, Look into his eyes and BE HEALED
(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/gallery/paul_newman/paul_newman1_300.jpg)
Crap. Now I'm Gay again.
Which nicely brings this point:
Don't forget to laugh at shit. Death's grim but funny shit still happens. Remember to laugh.
Also, it could work out. Did for this lucky fuck:
http://www.salon.com/2012/10/09/man_finds_suit_he_believes_belonged_to_paul_newman/
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:40:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 11, 2013, 08:23:26 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:20:40 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Nothing very constructive to add, but I'd second Squiddy. There's very few things as shitty as having a "bad" day and then getting something cut off or penalty charge. It's minor, but it amplifies big time and can make for some exceptional arguments.
I hear ya. We had to completely rearrange our anniversary because of this and, not to sound whiny, but I ended up getting a god awful splinter in my thumb and had to cut it out with a razorblade. And I ALMOST said "OH THIS TOO--FUUUUCK!" but the Steve McQueen in me told me that the field surgery was fucking awesome. 8)
Steve McQueen would have dug it out with a claw hammer.
Because he's the COOLEST MAN THAT EVER LIVED.
Fuckin A. :lol:
Something else, Burns, give her TIME. When it's somebody close like that, it can take a couple of YEARS to get used to it. (Notice I didn't say get "over" it.) The culture here goes "OK, we'll give you a few days off (if it's IMMEDIATE FAMILY - friends, less immediate family and lovers don't count) and then everything needs to be BACK TO NORMAL(TM). If it's not, you need to go talk to somebody and they do some kind of miracle and MAKE EVERYTHING NORMAL. STAT. Toot sweet, motherfucker, or you could LOSE YOUR JERB.
So she's not only grieving, she's probably going to be dealing with THAT stupid shit. Sometimes I wish we were like those old Native Americans, you could hack off your hair and maybe a pinkie finger or something and people would UNDERSTAND when they saw you, and LEAVE YOU THE FUCK ALONE FOR AWHILE.
The 'over it' / 'used to it' is a good distinction I haven't thought of before. I think that an apt description of the right attitude. The former seems to imply that it's some kind of phase where the later acknowledges the emotions and experiences behind it that actually make the process so damn hard.
Luckily, my wife has a great support system at work. She was told to stay away when she wanted back and not to worry about things...they're covered. Had this been a year ago at her previous job....not so much. We're really counting our blessings.
Your comment about the Native Americans hints that there's a sort of natural empathy that our society seems to lack. It's all "Business as Usual". Every now and then certain people will pop up from the fog...that's nice when that happens. :)
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:40:54 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:38:08 PM
put it back!! this thread was getting too serious!
Oops. :oops:
Nono, i like a good mix.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 11, 2013, 08:40:49 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 08:39:08 PM
This... makes my point.
Argument closed.
Well, I had the two old guys backward.
Paul Newman is clearly cooler.
TGRR,
Stands corrected.
NO. YOU DON'T. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yXrAX-E_6k)
Beats the FUCK out of eating fifty eggs.
I think this thread is full of useful advice and I don't have much to add except I'm sorry for your loss and I think you're handling things just fine, so far. :)
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 11, 2013, 08:43:03 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 08:41:52 PM
All is forgiven, Look into his eyes and BE HEALED
(http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/gallery/paul_newman/paul_newman1_300.jpg)
Crap. Now I'm Gay again.
:spittake:
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on March 11, 2013, 08:52:30 PM
I think this thread is full of useful advice and I don't have much to add except I'm sorry for your loss and I think you're handling things just fine, so far. :)
Awesome, thanks!
:awesome:
QuoteYour comment about the Native Americans hints that there's a sort of natural empathy that our society seems to lack. It's all "Business as Usual".
This is very true. I'm dealing with a number of sub-contractors and some of the conversations you overhear are just the definition of small talk.
This example, the guy's wife has cancer. Toss a coin chances kind. This was filthy assistants side of the conversation
"Hi you ok?"
"And the wife?"
"I'll be quick"
"Can you not re-schedule the appointment?"
At that point I removed the phone from him. I'd like to say shit like that is infrequent but I'd be lying.
I suspect more people could benefit from a timely slap and the cry of "Empathy!"
I'd pay someone to do this. Not a lot, but I'd pay.
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:49:49 PM
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:40:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 11, 2013, 08:23:26 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:20:40 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Nothing very constructive to add, but I'd second Squiddy. There's very few things as shitty as having a "bad" day and then getting something cut off or penalty charge. It's minor, but it amplifies big time and can make for some exceptional arguments.
I hear ya. We had to completely rearrange our anniversary because of this and, not to sound whiny, but I ended up getting a god awful splinter in my thumb and had to cut it out with a razorblade. And I ALMOST said "OH THIS TOO--FUUUUCK!" but the Steve McQueen in me told me that the field surgery was fucking awesome. 8)
Steve McQueen would have dug it out with a claw hammer.
Because he's the COOLEST MAN THAT EVER LIVED.
Fuckin A. :lol:
Something else, Burns, give her TIME. When it's somebody close like that, it can take a couple of YEARS to get used to it. (Notice I didn't say get "over" it.) The culture here goes "OK, we'll give you a few days off (if it's IMMEDIATE FAMILY - friends, less immediate family and lovers don't count) and then everything needs to be BACK TO NORMAL(TM). If it's not, you need to go talk to somebody and they do some kind of miracle and MAKE EVERYTHING NORMAL. STAT. Toot sweet, motherfucker, or you could LOSE YOUR JERB.
So she's not only grieving, she's probably going to be dealing with THAT stupid shit. Sometimes I wish we were like those old Native Americans, you could hack off your hair and maybe a pinkie finger or something and people would UNDERSTAND when they saw you, and LEAVE YOU THE FUCK ALONE FOR AWHILE.
The 'over it' / 'used to it' is a good distinction I haven't thought of before. I think that an apt description of the right attitude. The former seems to imply that it's some kind of phase where the later acknowledges the emotions and experiences behind it that actually make the process so damn hard.
Luckily, my wife has a great support system at work. She was told to stay away when she wanted back and not to worry about things...they're covered. Had this been a year ago at her previous job....not so much. We're really counting our blessings.
Your comment about the Native Americans hints that there's a sort of natural empathy that our society seems to lack. It's all "Business as Usual". Every now and then certain people will pop up from the fog...that's nice when that happens. :)
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:40:54 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:38:08 PM
put it back!! this thread was getting too serious!
Oops. :oops:
Nono, i like a good mix.
Very cool that she works with people like that. :)
I don't understand the "business as usual" thing either. Yeah, the corporations exist to make money and generally don't give a fuck, but you see it on the personal level too. It's like people are
scared of other people who are going through painful shit and don't just snap out of everything instantly, like they think it's contagious or something.
Where's Nigel? She always makes some sense of incomprehensible behavior.
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:52:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 11, 2013, 08:40:49 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 08:39:08 PM
This... makes my point.
Argument closed.
Well, I had the two old guys backward.
Paul Newman is clearly cooler.
TGRR,
Stands corrected.
NO. YOU DON'T. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yXrAX-E_6k)
Beats the FUCK out of eating fifty eggs.
I see your Bullitt and Raise
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054997/?ref_=sr_1
With Jackie Gleeson. Argue and Bang, Zoom, Straight to the moon. He'll do it too.
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 09:01:02 PM
Very cool that she works with people like that. :)
I don't understand the "business as usual" thing either. Yeah, the corporations exist to make money and generally don't give a fuck, but you see it on the personal level too. It's like people are scared of other people who are going through painful shit and don't just snap out of everything instantly, like they think it's contagious or something.
Where's Nigel? She always makes some sense of incomprehensible behavior.
From what I understand, people don't like any reminder that things aren't all happiness and sunshine.
They especially don't like thinking about death.
They don't really care if you are still grieving, they just want to see a smile on your face so they can continue living in their bubble.
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 09:01:29 PM
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:52:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 11, 2013, 08:40:49 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 08:39:08 PM
This... makes my point.
Argument closed.
Well, I had the two old guys backward.
Paul Newman is clearly cooler.
TGRR,
Stands corrected.
NO. YOU DON'T. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yXrAX-E_6k)
Beats the FUCK out of eating fifty eggs.
I see your Bullitt and Raise
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054997/?ref_=sr_1
With Jackie Gleeson. Argue and Bang, Zoom, Straight to the moon. He'll do it too.
Ah, riding on the coattails of The Great One.
Steve McQueen, with "support" like Ali McGraw and a minor character from Andy Griffith. And it's STILL a fucking classic:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068638/?ref_=sr_1
:hammer: :hammer: :hammer:
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 08:58:17 PM
QuoteYour comment about the Native Americans hints that there's a sort of natural empathy that our society seems to lack. It's all "Business as Usual".
This is very true. I'm dealing with a number of sub-contractors and some of the conversations you overhear are just the definition of small talk.
This example, the guy's wife has cancer. Toss a coin chances kind. This was filthy assistants side of the conversation
"Hi you ok?"
"And the wife?"
"I'll be quick"
"Can you not re-schedule the appointment?"
At that point I removed the phone from him. I'd like to say shit like that is infrequent but I'd be lying.
I suspect more people could benefit from a timely slap and the cry of "Empathy!"
I'd pay someone to do this. Not a lot, but I'd pay.
Hah! Me too, actually. That person can begin with some of my inlaws.
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 09:01:02 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:49:49 PM
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:40:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 11, 2013, 08:23:26 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:20:40 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Nothing very constructive to add, but I'd second Squiddy. There's very few things as shitty as having a "bad" day and then getting something cut off or penalty charge. It's minor, but it amplifies big time and can make for some exceptional arguments.
I hear ya. We had to completely rearrange our anniversary because of this and, not to sound whiny, but I ended up getting a god awful splinter in my thumb and had to cut it out with a razorblade. And I ALMOST said "OH THIS TOO--FUUUUCK!" but the Steve McQueen in me told me that the field surgery was fucking awesome. 8)
Steve McQueen would have dug it out with a claw hammer.
Because he's the COOLEST MAN THAT EVER LIVED.
Fuckin A. :lol:
Something else, Burns, give her TIME. When it's somebody close like that, it can take a couple of YEARS to get used to it. (Notice I didn't say get "over" it.) The culture here goes "OK, we'll give you a few days off (if it's IMMEDIATE FAMILY - friends, less immediate family and lovers don't count) and then everything needs to be BACK TO NORMAL(TM). If it's not, you need to go talk to somebody and they do some kind of miracle and MAKE EVERYTHING NORMAL. STAT. Toot sweet, motherfucker, or you could LOSE YOUR JERB.
So she's not only grieving, she's probably going to be dealing with THAT stupid shit. Sometimes I wish we were like those old Native Americans, you could hack off your hair and maybe a pinkie finger or something and people would UNDERSTAND when they saw you, and LEAVE YOU THE FUCK ALONE FOR AWHILE.
The 'over it' / 'used to it' is a good distinction I haven't thought of before. I think that an apt description of the right attitude. The former seems to imply that it's some kind of phase where the later acknowledges the emotions and experiences behind it that actually make the process so damn hard.
Luckily, my wife has a great support system at work. She was told to stay away when she wanted back and not to worry about things...they're covered. Had this been a year ago at her previous job....not so much. We're really counting our blessings.
Your comment about the Native Americans hints that there's a sort of natural empathy that our society seems to lack. It's all "Business as Usual". Every now and then certain people will pop up from the fog...that's nice when that happens. :)
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:40:54 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:38:08 PM
put it back!! this thread was getting too serious!
Oops. :oops:
Nono, i like a good mix.
Very cool that she works with people like that. :)
I don't understand the "business as usual" thing either. Yeah, the corporations exist to make money and generally don't give a fuck, but you see it on the personal level too. It's like people are scared of other people who are going through painful shit and don't just snap out of everything instantly, like they think it's contagious or something.
Where's Nigel? She always makes some sense of incomprehensible behavior.
Yeah, at some moments last week I've heard a couple people say something to the effect of, "I just don't know what to say at times like this" or somehow casually implying that they're not good at it and that it makes them feel uncomfortable. Within the space of the people that came we were all uncomfortable ... together. This was kinda cool because even though it sucked it was still a 'shared space.'
Although with the general public ... it seems to me to be a shying away from the discomfort, seeking self-preservation and defense. I think it's also interesting that people feel that they need to say anything at all. My brother-in-law, I normally don't touch. You wouldn't want to either. But he was getting rather belligerent at one point and instead of arguing I just went over and gave him a hug. I actually learned something from that and reminded him that we're all in this together without saying a word.
Quote from: Sita on March 11, 2013, 09:18:53 PM
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 09:01:02 PM
Very cool that she works with people like that. :)
I don't understand the "business as usual" thing either. Yeah, the corporations exist to make money and generally don't give a fuck, but you see it on the personal level too. It's like people are scared of other people who are going through painful shit and don't just snap out of everything instantly, like they think it's contagious or something.
Where's Nigel? She always makes some sense of incomprehensible behavior.
From what I understand, people don't like any reminder that things aren't all happiness and sunshine.
They especially don't like thinking about death.
They don't really care if you are still grieving, they just want to see a smile on your face so they can continue living in their bubble.
Yeah and if unable to escape, those some people will try to 'make you feel better.' "I'M HELPING I'M HELPING!" My wife and I know better and with our kids we ended up just reminding them that they're safe (in so many ways) rather than try to change what they're feeling. The whole 'coach parent' model really shows it worth in these instances.
Yeah, there's nothing TO "say" because you CAN'T "make it better".
Just try to be a biped and be supportive - ongoing - NOT "here's a casserole and it was God's will and if you ever need anything just let me know, only I don't really mean that, of course. Now snap out of it!"
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 09:28:07 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 09:01:29 PM
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:52:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 11, 2013, 08:40:49 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 08:39:08 PM
This... makes my point.
Argument closed.
Well, I had the two old guys backward.
Paul Newman is clearly cooler.
TGRR,
Stands corrected.
NO. YOU DON'T. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yXrAX-E_6k)
Beats the FUCK out of eating fifty eggs.
I see your Bullitt and Raise
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054997/?ref_=sr_1
With Jackie Gleeson. Argue and Bang, Zoom, Straight to the moon. He'll do it too.
Ah, riding on the coattails of The Great One.
Steve McQueen, with "support" like Ali McGraw and a minor character from Andy Griffith. And it's STILL a fucking classic:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068638/?ref_=sr_1
:hammer: :hammer: :hammer:
Ok. Ok. I can respect this.
Wait.
What was that? You want to talk ensemble cast?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070735/?ref_=sr_1
BOOM.
If you can show me a classier "Pretending to be drunk; gambling on a train" scene I'll eat my hat. Or buy one. Either/Or.Anyway, Every character a classic and you STILL won't guess the assassin until the reveal.
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 09:53:33 PM
Yeah, there's nothing TO "say" because you CAN'T "make it better".
Just try to be a biped and be supportive - ongoing - NOT "here's a casserole and it was God's will and if you ever need anything just let me know, only I don't really mean that, of course. Now snap out of it!"
:lulz:
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 09:01:02 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:49:49 PM
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:40:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 11, 2013, 08:23:26 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:20:40 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Nothing very constructive to add, but I'd second Squiddy. There's very few things as shitty as having a "bad" day and then getting something cut off or penalty charge. It's minor, but it amplifies big time and can make for some exceptional arguments.
I hear ya. We had to completely rearrange our anniversary because of this and, not to sound whiny, but I ended up getting a god awful splinter in my thumb and had to cut it out with a razorblade. And I ALMOST said "OH THIS TOO--FUUUUCK!" but the Steve McQueen in me told me that the field surgery was fucking awesome. 8)
Steve McQueen would have dug it out with a claw hammer.
Because he's the COOLEST MAN THAT EVER LIVED.
Fuckin A. :lol:
Something else, Burns, give her TIME. When it's somebody close like that, it can take a couple of YEARS to get used to it. (Notice I didn't say get "over" it.) The culture here goes "OK, we'll give you a few days off (if it's IMMEDIATE FAMILY - friends, less immediate family and lovers don't count) and then everything needs to be BACK TO NORMAL(TM). If it's not, you need to go talk to somebody and they do some kind of miracle and MAKE EVERYTHING NORMAL. STAT. Toot sweet, motherfucker, or you could LOSE YOUR JERB.
So she's not only grieving, she's probably going to be dealing with THAT stupid shit. Sometimes I wish we were like those old Native Americans, you could hack off your hair and maybe a pinkie finger or something and people would UNDERSTAND when they saw you, and LEAVE YOU THE FUCK ALONE FOR AWHILE.
The 'over it' / 'used to it' is a good distinction I haven't thought of before. I think that an apt description of the right attitude. The former seems to imply that it's some kind of phase where the later acknowledges the emotions and experiences behind it that actually make the process so damn hard.
Luckily, my wife has a great support system at work. She was told to stay away when she wanted back and not to worry about things...they're covered. Had this been a year ago at her previous job....not so much. We're really counting our blessings.
Your comment about the Native Americans hints that there's a sort of natural empathy that our society seems to lack. It's all "Business as Usual". Every now and then certain people will pop up from the fog...that's nice when that happens. :)
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:40:54 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:38:08 PM
put it back!! this thread was getting too serious!
Oops. :oops:
Nono, i like a good mix.
Very cool that she works with people like that. :)
I don't understand the "business as usual" thing either. Yeah, the corporations exist to make money and generally don't give a fuck, but you see it on the personal level too. It's like people are scared of other people who are going through painful shit and don't just snap out of everything instantly, like they think it's contagious or something.
Where's Nigel? She always makes some sense of incomprehensible behavior.
Short answer; we ARE scared, and our culture really doesn't have a good mechanism in place for dealing with grief. Grief is an intimate thing, death is the ultimate loss of control, and we fear intimacy and loss of control.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 11, 2013, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 09:01:02 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:49:49 PM
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:40:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 11, 2013, 08:23:26 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:20:40 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Nothing very constructive to add, but I'd second Squiddy. There's very few things as shitty as having a "bad" day and then getting something cut off or penalty charge. It's minor, but it amplifies big time and can make for some exceptional arguments.
I hear ya. We had to completely rearrange our anniversary because of this and, not to sound whiny, but I ended up getting a god awful splinter in my thumb and had to cut it out with a razorblade. And I ALMOST said "OH THIS TOO--FUUUUCK!" but the Steve McQueen in me told me that the field surgery was fucking awesome. 8)
Steve McQueen would have dug it out with a claw hammer.
Because he's the COOLEST MAN THAT EVER LIVED.
Fuckin A. :lol:
Something else, Burns, give her TIME. When it's somebody close like that, it can take a couple of YEARS to get used to it. (Notice I didn't say get "over" it.) The culture here goes "OK, we'll give you a few days off (if it's IMMEDIATE FAMILY - friends, less immediate family and lovers don't count) and then everything needs to be BACK TO NORMAL(TM). If it's not, you need to go talk to somebody and they do some kind of miracle and MAKE EVERYTHING NORMAL. STAT. Toot sweet, motherfucker, or you could LOSE YOUR JERB.
So she's not only grieving, she's probably going to be dealing with THAT stupid shit. Sometimes I wish we were like those old Native Americans, you could hack off your hair and maybe a pinkie finger or something and people would UNDERSTAND when they saw you, and LEAVE YOU THE FUCK ALONE FOR AWHILE.
The 'over it' / 'used to it' is a good distinction I haven't thought of before. I think that an apt description of the right attitude. The former seems to imply that it's some kind of phase where the later acknowledges the emotions and experiences behind it that actually make the process so damn hard.
Luckily, my wife has a great support system at work. She was told to stay away when she wanted back and not to worry about things...they're covered. Had this been a year ago at her previous job....not so much. We're really counting our blessings.
Your comment about the Native Americans hints that there's a sort of natural empathy that our society seems to lack. It's all "Business as Usual". Every now and then certain people will pop up from the fog...that's nice when that happens. :)
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:40:54 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:38:08 PM
put it back!! this thread was getting too serious!
Oops. :oops:
Nono, i like a good mix.
Very cool that she works with people like that. :)
I don't understand the "business as usual" thing either. Yeah, the corporations exist to make money and generally don't give a fuck, but you see it on the personal level too. It's like people are scared of other people who are going through painful shit and don't just snap out of everything instantly, like they think it's contagious or something.
Where's Nigel? She always makes some sense of incomprehensible behavior.
Short answer; we ARE scared, and our culture really doesn't have a good mechanism in place for dealing with grief. Grief is an intimate thing, death is the ultimate loss of control, and we fear intimacy and loss of control.
Yeah.
On the other hand, most people have been through it. I don't get why they don't understand that it takes more than a few DAYS. I mean, that FIRST phase where every time you stop thinking about it for a few minutes, you start to pick up the phone to call the person ("Oh, yeah, forgot..." *PUNCH IN THE GUT*) or turn down their street ("Oh, yeah, forgot..." *PUNCH IN THE GUT*) takes a few WEEKS.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 11, 2013, 10:25:18 PM
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 09:01:02 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:49:49 PM
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:40:14 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 11, 2013, 08:23:26 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:20:40 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on March 11, 2013, 06:43:03 PM
Nothing very constructive to add, but I'd second Squiddy. There's very few things as shitty as having a "bad" day and then getting something cut off or penalty charge. It's minor, but it amplifies big time and can make for some exceptional arguments.
I hear ya. We had to completely rearrange our anniversary because of this and, not to sound whiny, but I ended up getting a god awful splinter in my thumb and had to cut it out with a razorblade. And I ALMOST said "OH THIS TOO--FUUUUCK!" but the Steve McQueen in me told me that the field surgery was fucking awesome. 8)
Steve McQueen would have dug it out with a claw hammer.
Because he's the COOLEST MAN THAT EVER LIVED.
Fuckin A. :lol:
Something else, Burns, give her TIME. When it's somebody close like that, it can take a couple of YEARS to get used to it. (Notice I didn't say get "over" it.) The culture here goes "OK, we'll give you a few days off (if it's IMMEDIATE FAMILY - friends, less immediate family and lovers don't count) and then everything needs to be BACK TO NORMAL(TM). If it's not, you need to go talk to somebody and they do some kind of miracle and MAKE EVERYTHING NORMAL. STAT. Toot sweet, motherfucker, or you could LOSE YOUR JERB.
So she's not only grieving, she's probably going to be dealing with THAT stupid shit. Sometimes I wish we were like those old Native Americans, you could hack off your hair and maybe a pinkie finger or something and people would UNDERSTAND when they saw you, and LEAVE YOU THE FUCK ALONE FOR AWHILE.
The 'over it' / 'used to it' is a good distinction I haven't thought of before. I think that an apt description of the right attitude. The former seems to imply that it's some kind of phase where the later acknowledges the emotions and experiences behind it that actually make the process so damn hard.
Luckily, my wife has a great support system at work. She was told to stay away when she wanted back and not to worry about things...they're covered. Had this been a year ago at her previous job....not so much. We're really counting our blessings.
Your comment about the Native Americans hints that there's a sort of natural empathy that our society seems to lack. It's all "Business as Usual". Every now and then certain people will pop up from the fog...that's nice when that happens. :)
Quote from: stelz on March 11, 2013, 08:40:54 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 11, 2013, 08:38:08 PM
put it back!! this thread was getting too serious!
Oops. :oops:
Nono, i like a good mix.
Very cool that she works with people like that. :)
I don't understand the "business as usual" thing either. Yeah, the corporations exist to make money and generally don't give a fuck, but you see it on the personal level too. It's like people are scared of other people who are going through painful shit and don't just snap out of everything instantly, like they think it's contagious or something.
Where's Nigel? She always makes some sense of incomprehensible behavior.
Short answer; we ARE scared, and our culture really doesn't have a good mechanism in place for dealing with grief. Grief is an intimate thing, death is the ultimate loss of control, and we fear intimacy and loss of control.
That's basically where, as I understand it, where the anger comes from.
Also, as far as the stages of bereavement go, they seem to be overlapping I'm noticing. It's not coming out in a linear way as I initially thought...I'm noticing my family moving from denial( or more accurately, "it's so surreal"), into anger, and back. They don't seem so much like stages as 'changing states'.
If, in a clear moment, I step back and look at the whole thing objectively and without all the emotion, it's really fascinating...not to come across as insensitive, of course.
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 12, 2013, 01:35:43 AM
Also, as far as the stages of bereavement go, they seem to be overlapping I'm noticing. It's not coming out in a linear way as I initially thought...I'm noticing my family moving from denial( or more accurately, "it's so surreal"), into anger, and back. They don't seem so much like stages as 'changing states'.
If, in a clear moment, I step back and look at the whole thing objectively and without all the emotion, it's really fascinating...not to come across as insensitive, of course.
The grief process is non-linear... people usually experience all the stages, but they can overlap or jump around in them quite a bit. You may see acceptance and then a day later see anger. Being "done" with grieving is when you are in acceptance almost all the time.
Expect that to take at least a year.
Or longer.
I don't like to combine "at least" with "or longer" because it's redundant... one implies the other.
Sorry; comprehension fail.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 12, 2013, 06:52:42 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 12, 2013, 01:35:43 AM
Also, as far as the stages of bereavement go, they seem to be overlapping I'm noticing. It's not coming out in a linear way as I initially thought...I'm noticing my family moving from denial( or more accurately, "it's so surreal"), into anger, and back. They don't seem so much like stages as 'changing states'.
If, in a clear moment, I step back and look at the whole thing objectively and without all the emotion, it's really fascinating...not to come across as insensitive, of course.
The grief process is non-linear... people usually experience all the stages, but they can overlap or jump around in them quite a bit. You may see acceptance and then a day later see anger. Being "done" with grieving is when you are in acceptance almost all the time.
Expect that to take at least a year.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2013, 07:23:31 PM
Or longer.
Yeah...someone once told me that if you think you're done grieving, go grieve some more. This was before anyone died, but I'm beginning to see why that's good advice.
And you're not coming across as "insensitive" for trying to observe this stuff and figure it out.
It beats the FUCK out of the reactions we were talking about earlier.
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 12, 2013, 08:17:42 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 12, 2013, 06:52:42 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 12, 2013, 01:35:43 AM
Also, as far as the stages of bereavement go, they seem to be overlapping I'm noticing. It's not coming out in a linear way as I initially thought...I'm noticing my family moving from denial( or more accurately, "it's so surreal"), into anger, and back. They don't seem so much like stages as 'changing states'.
If, in a clear moment, I step back and look at the whole thing objectively and without all the emotion, it's really fascinating...not to come across as insensitive, of course.
The grief process is non-linear... people usually experience all the stages, but they can overlap or jump around in them quite a bit. You may see acceptance and then a day later see anger. Being "done" with grieving is when you are in acceptance almost all the time.
Expect that to take at least a year.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2013, 07:23:31 PM
Or longer.
Yeah...someone once told me that if you think you're done grieving, go grieve some more. This was before anyone died, but I'm beginning to see why that's good advice.
In my experience, there's no such thing as "done" grieving. You just get to the point where you accept and understand your loss and are able to function normally again. Acceptance doesn't mean absence of pain, it just means that the pain isn't overwhelming and that you are able to wrap your head around the fact that the person is gone. It still hurts, 16 years later, that my brother is gone. It will always hurt, that's just the way it is.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 12, 2013, 07:41:31 PM
I don't like to combine "at least" with "or longer" because it's redundant... one implies the other.
Y'all see that tornado blow threw here? Blowed the roof right off mah trailer.
I coulda been killt...or WORSE!
/
:mullet:
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 12, 2013, 09:27:26 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 12, 2013, 08:17:42 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 12, 2013, 06:52:42 PM
Quote from: Bu☆ns on March 12, 2013, 01:35:43 AM
Also, as far as the stages of bereavement go, they seem to be overlapping I'm noticing. It's not coming out in a linear way as I initially thought...I'm noticing my family moving from denial( or more accurately, "it's so surreal"), into anger, and back. They don't seem so much like stages as 'changing states'.
If, in a clear moment, I step back and look at the whole thing objectively and without all the emotion, it's really fascinating...not to come across as insensitive, of course.
The grief process is non-linear... people usually experience all the stages, but they can overlap or jump around in them quite a bit. You may see acceptance and then a day later see anger. Being "done" with grieving is when you are in acceptance almost all the time.
Expect that to take at least a year.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 12, 2013, 07:23:31 PM
Or longer.
Yeah...someone once told me that if you think you're done grieving, go grieve some more. This was before anyone died, but I'm beginning to see why that's good advice.
In my experience, there's no such thing as "done" grieving. You just get to the point where you accept and understand your loss and are able to function normally again. Acceptance doesn't mean absence of pain, it just means that the pain isn't overwhelming and that you are able to wrap your head around the fact that the person is gone. It still hurts, 16 years later, that my brother is gone. It will always hurt, that's just the way it is.
I can understand this view. I guess this is where 'taking the good with the bad' comes from.