http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/20/17384666-colorado-department-of-corrections-chief-shot-dead-in-home?lite
Note that Colorado has 4 private prisons out of a total of 25 prisons, so 16%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Department_of_Corrections
So, THIS becomes relevant:
http://www.chieftain.com/news/region/reduced-crime-means-less-need-for-state-prisons/article_87c11482-7315-11e1-a435-0019bb2963f4.html
The prison closed was public, BUT:
QuoteWhite said the result of recent prison closures will be that the Legislature, prison officials and the governor's office will have to initiate a study of prison trends and figure out what the future holds for both private and state prisons. She said the state's four private prisons have 1,600 empty beds.
And this is just weird:
http://www.chieftain.com/news/local/funding-panel-oks-more-doc-funds/article_6dad66a4-4651-11e1-af12-001871e3ce6c.html
QuoteThe department's overestimate of the population decline accounted for about half of its request for additional funds. The accelerated drawdown of inmates as soon-to-close Fort Lyon Correctional Facility brought on by unexpected staff resignations and an increase in parole revocations were other factors, according to Sobanet.
Interesting:
QuoteHundreds of Idaho inmates were transfered to Colorado in 2012 under an agreement with the Corrections Corporation of America. While the inmates are not in any of Colorado's public institutions, they are being held at one of CCA's private facilities, Kit Carson Correctional Center in Burlington, Colo.
Something is squirrely, here. CCA signs a deal with Clements, bringing in "hundreds" of out-of-state convicts. Yet they have 1600 empty beds in the 4 private prisons.
Then a month later, there's talk of shutting down two PUBLIC prisons.
Then 9 months later, Clements is shot dead. Doesn't add up. Smells reeeeeally funny, though.
Prediction: Some ex-con is going to get this hung around his neck, and he'll get conveniently shot while being arrested.
Wow, I really have no idea what to make of it, but it is just plain weird. All of it.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 20, 2013, 06:22:30 PM
Wow, I really have no idea what to make of it, but it is just plain weird. All of it.
Gets weirder:
QuoteThe remaining 399 prisoners likely will be transferred to the state's three private prisons or other open prison beds throughout the state. By the end of the year, DOC will have enough new bed space to take 122 private prison inmates back.
By spending $1.1 million in one-time capital costs to add beds at the Arrowhead and Four Mile prisons in Canon City as well as the Buena Vista, Delta, Rifle and Sterling prisons, the state says it can save an estimated $1.5 million a year in private prison costs.
According to Hickenlooper's report, estimated cost for the state to house a prisoner is $20.32 a day, while the cost to house an inmate at a private prison is $52.69 a day.
http://www.chieftain.com/news/local/doc-cuts-could-save-million/article_64a1ad66-3a60-11e0-8ab0-001cc4c03286.html
Hickenlooper is the governor of CO.
I'm looking at Clement's relationship with CCA in Missouri right now. He was their boy, and then he gets a hit put on him. No corrections officers lost their jobs in the shutdowns, and ex-cons kill guards, not bureaucrats.
My gut tells me CCA did the deed, but my head says it doesn't make any sense. He was turning the 4 private prisons in CO into out-of-state housing AND transfers of in-state prisons, making them revenue centers for CCA at more than twice the cost of housing the prisoners privately.
There's more. BRB.
Yeah, that's the sticky thing... he seemed to be in the CCA's pocket, so why would they clean him?
Unless there's something more going on, or perhaps they have a dirtier backup ready to take his place.
I will say that something in this situation smells like desperation.
Just before he left MO, he was - alongside CCA - sued over shitty conditions in the prisons there:
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/circuit-courts/ca8/11-2617/
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 20, 2013, 06:29:50 PM
Yeah, that's the sticky thing... he seemed to be in the CCA's pocket, so why would they clean him?
Unless there's something more going on, or perhaps they have a dirtier backup ready to take his place.
Or unless he was being investigated, and they wanted him quiet.
This doesn't sound like a murder motivated by a grudge, it sounds like a hit.
What's bugging me: He proposes huge savings for the state by moving prisoners to a facility that costs more than double to house them (???), then asks for the money back, because suddenly there's this huge increase in parole violations, supposedly. Then he gets shot.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 20, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 20, 2013, 06:29:50 PM
Yeah, that's the sticky thing... he seemed to be in the CCA's pocket, so why would they clean him?
Unless there's something more going on, or perhaps they have a dirtier backup ready to take his place.
Or unless he was being investigated, and they wanted him quiet.
This doesn't sound like a murder motivated by a grudge, it sounds like a hit.
It does sound like a hit. Exactly like one.
The only thing I can come up with is pure speculation.
I've only got speculation so far, and my head is fuzzy due to lack of sleep.
Definitely interested though...might take me until tomorrow to do some digging, but I'm interested enough to give it a good, long look.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 20, 2013, 06:36:31 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 20, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 20, 2013, 06:29:50 PM
Yeah, that's the sticky thing... he seemed to be in the CCA's pocket, so why would they clean him?
Unless there's something more going on, or perhaps they have a dirtier backup ready to take his place.
Or unless he was being investigated, and they wanted him quiet.
This doesn't sound like a murder motivated by a grudge, it sounds like a hit.
It does sound like a hit. Exactly like one.
The only thing I can come up with is pure speculation.
Take a sniff of this:
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/grassrootsleadership/cca.pdf
Especially the bottom of page 3.
Also, 1400+ inmates were released, rather than transferred to CCA's Kit Carson facility.
CCA and the now-defunct Lehman Bros bank were damn near incestuous.
Also, CCA isn't a PATCH on Wackenhut Corrections.
WOW.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 20, 2013, 06:40:34 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 20, 2013, 06:36:31 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 20, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 20, 2013, 06:29:50 PM
Yeah, that's the sticky thing... he seemed to be in the CCA's pocket, so why would they clean him?
Unless there's something more going on, or perhaps they have a dirtier backup ready to take his place.
Or unless he was being investigated, and they wanted him quiet.
This doesn't sound like a murder motivated by a grudge, it sounds like a hit.
It does sound like a hit. Exactly like one.
The only thing I can come up with is pure speculation.
Take a sniff of this:
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/grassrootsleadership/cca.pdf
Especially the bottom of page 3.
Also, 1400+ inmates were released, rather than transferred to CCA's Kit Carson facility.
This is very interesting, because it would seem to validate my impression that it reeks of desperation; that the CCA is foundering, and is resorting to desperate measures.
It still leaves me with nothing in the "Why?" department, though. Unless Clements was, as you mentioned, being investigated... or unless, to take it a step farther, he was distancing himself from the CCA because he was actively participating in an investigation.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 20, 2013, 07:02:46 PM
Also, CCA isn't a PATCH on Wackenhut Corrections.
WOW.
Yeah, Wackenhut are pretty nasty. Essentially a private arm of the national security state...kind of the Blackwater of their day.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 20, 2013, 07:04:31 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 20, 2013, 06:40:34 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 20, 2013, 06:36:31 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 20, 2013, 06:33:06 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 20, 2013, 06:29:50 PM
Yeah, that's the sticky thing... he seemed to be in the CCA's pocket, so why would they clean him?
Unless there's something more going on, or perhaps they have a dirtier backup ready to take his place.
Or unless he was being investigated, and they wanted him quiet.
This doesn't sound like a murder motivated by a grudge, it sounds like a hit.
It does sound like a hit. Exactly like one.
The only thing I can come up with is pure speculation.
Take a sniff of this:
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/grassrootsleadership/cca.pdf
Especially the bottom of page 3.
Also, 1400+ inmates were released, rather than transferred to CCA's Kit Carson facility.
This is very interesting, because it would seem to validate my impression that it reeks of desperation; that the CCS is foundering, and is resorting to desperate measures.
It still leaves me with nothing in the "Why?" department, though. Unless Clements was, as you mentioned, being investigated... or unless, to take it a step farther, he was distancing himself from the CCA because he was actively participating in an investigation.
It's almost impossible to dig right now, because searching his name gets you the getting shot thing, and searching Colorado gets you 100,000,000 screeching gun nuts due to Hickenlooper signing the gun control laws there.
Quote from: Cain on March 20, 2013, 07:05:54 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 20, 2013, 07:02:46 PM
Also, CCA isn't a PATCH on Wackenhut Corrections.
WOW.
Yeah, Wackenhut are pretty nasty. Essentially a private arm of the national security state...kind of the Blackwater of their day.
Yeah, they have what's basically a modern army fielded inside the USA. Tanks, APCs, attack helicopters, the works.
That's fairly old news. Their corrections arm is fucking VILE.
So, the killer shows up in a "boxy car", then drives off afterward.
The police are fucking around in a nearby woods with search dogs.
:?
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 20, 2013, 07:24:02 PM
Quote from: Cain on March 20, 2013, 07:05:54 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 20, 2013, 07:02:46 PM
Also, CCA isn't a PATCH on Wackenhut Corrections.
WOW.
Yeah, Wackenhut are pretty nasty. Essentially a private arm of the national security state...kind of the Blackwater of their day.
Yeah, they have what's basically a modern army fielded inside the USA. Tanks, APCs, attack helicopters, the works.
That's fairly old news. Their corrections arm is fucking VILE.
They also provide security and intelligence for several large Wall Street firms. Only those of a conservative bent need apply, of course.
Quote from: Cain on March 20, 2013, 07:29:30 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 20, 2013, 07:24:02 PM
Quote from: Cain on March 20, 2013, 07:05:54 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 20, 2013, 07:02:46 PM
Also, CCA isn't a PATCH on Wackenhut Corrections.
WOW.
Yeah, Wackenhut are pretty nasty. Essentially a private arm of the national security state...kind of the Blackwater of their day.
Yeah, they have what's basically a modern army fielded inside the USA. Tanks, APCs, attack helicopters, the works.
That's fairly old news. Their corrections arm is fucking VILE.
They also provide security and intelligence for several large Wall Street firms. Only those of a conservative bent need apply, of course.
Yep. They approached our company on the intel thing, and were told to go shit in their hat.
My company isn't a pack of screeching hippies, either. They just view Wackenhut as a problem for hire.
Yeah - way too close to certain three letter agencies to trust their judgement on any issue. You can't be entirely sure who they are actually working for.
Unlike most news agencies, I don't think this is related to the proposed change in gun laws in Colorado...but looking into the El Paso County Sheriff Office, Terry Malekta certainly seems incensed by the proposals, has been a very vocal opponent of the laws and has accused local Dem politicians of "extortion" over the issue. Extortion in this case meaning not paying sheriffs who don't intend to enforce the laws of the state.
He's a complete wingnut with only a tenuous grasp on reality, in other words.
This doesn't mean he's necessarily involved...but it does make any judgements from the county office suspect. It also means Maleka may have links with the local conservative elite...which may include people involved in the private prison industry. Requires further investigation.
Fucking hell, this smells like the docks.
Will throw up anything (possibly) related I find.
http://www.gazette.com/news/sequestration-151828-conditional-local.html
QuoteWill the so-called sequestration of federal funds affect local governments?
Generally, the answer is a conditional yes. 'Conditional' because few impacts will be seen immediately, and because Congress still has time to change the across-the-board budget cuts before they reach their full impact later this year.
Here are some local examples. The list is not intended to be complete, but to paint a picture about the kinds of cuts that could impact cities, county agencies and school districts.
El Paso County Sheriff Terry Maketa said, "It's not immediately today, other than we got notified by ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) that they would be using less of our (county jail) bed space."
That means somewhat fewer federal dollars to the jail for illegal immigrants being held on charges prior to trial, but it is impossible now to pinpoint how many dollars. If the sequestration is locked into the federal fiscal year in October, Maketa worries that there could be less cooperation from the Drug Enforcement Administration and the FBI in robbery cases — but again, difficult to fix a precise cost.
Compare and contrast:
http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/20174469.html
QuoteTue 10:12 PM, Jun 17, 2008
Back to News
New Jail Opens In El Paso
The El Paso County Sheriff's Office was able to kill two birds with one stone. They were able to open up a new jail and have it pay for itself.
The new jail is located in the downtown Colorado Springs area on Tejon St.
The building used to be a maximum facility prison. Three years ago, it was shut down for safety reasons. It has now been converted into a minimum security prison for work release inmates.
Tuesday was the grand opening.
"We really just pumped new life into an old building," said El Paso County Sheriff Terry Maketa.
Since the building was a jail, there was already a lot of material like beds, showers and steel bars that came into good use.
"Beds were pulled out saved and refurbished. We saved all the stainless steel shower units too," said Commander Mitch Lincoln with the El Paso County Sheriff's Office.
The county was also able to gather more than two-million pounds of steel which was sold for about $68,000. All of that money was put back into the project.
"Jail overcrowding is a serious issue here in El Paso County," said Jim Bensberg, El Paso County Commissioner for the 5Th District.
The work release prison will be able to hold 350 inmates. A huge help for the county's swelling cells. "We saved probably hundreds of thousands of dollars in labor," said Sheriff Maketa. That's because inmates did most of the work. They helped construct a jail many of them will be serving time in.
It saved the county a total of a quarter of a million dollars.
"They're still functioning members of society, paying their taxes and keeping their families afloat. So, it's a win, win for the whole community," said Commissioner Bensberg.
Inmates will be allowed to come and go for work. Even though the inmates are low risk inmates, they'll still be under constant surveillance.
"They want to see these inmates put to good use, instead of being warehoused," said Commissioner Bensberg.
The project cost 4-million dollars. But each inmate pays 22-dollars a day. County officials say they'll make 2-million dollars a year which covers the cost to run it plus a little extra.
Bensberg is supported by Maketa for the D-3 Colorado Springs City Council position currently.
Information about CCA's national pull:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/14/meet-the-private-prison-lobby/
QuoteAmong the gang of eight senators, all but Lindsay Graham and John McCain have received significant money from the private prison corporations.
CCA also lobbies heavily on the national level....has particular pull in Arizona, still researching Colorado interests and paid for politicians.
Quote from: Cain on March 20, 2013, 07:51:34 PM
Unlike most news agencies, I don't think this is related to the proposed change in gun laws in Colorado...but looking into the El Paso County Sheriff Office, Terry Malekta certainly seems incensed by the proposals, has been a very vocal opponent of the laws and has accused local Dem politicians of "extortion" over the issue. Extortion in this case meaning not paying sheriffs who don't intend to enforce the laws of the state.
well, yeah. El Paso County has had a concealed-carry program for longer than any other County in Colorado, and Maketa is a HUGE supporter of concealed carry. I couldn't imagine him being happy with the new law.
Quote from: Cain on March 20, 2013, 07:51:34 PM
He's a complete wingnut with only a tenuous grasp on reality, in other words.
Maybe, but this is Pretty much Anti-Denver talk/posturing more than it is being a wingnut. El Paso County is one of the most politically conservative counties in the United States; for example, Bob Dole beat Bill Clinton by a considerable margin in El Paso County. This is tough talk for locals and for posturing in front of those damn liberals in Denver
Quote from: Cain on March 20, 2013, 07:51:34 PM
This doesn't mean he's necessarily involved...but it does make any judgements from the county office suspect. It also means Maleka may have links with the local conservative elite...which may include people involved in the private prison industry. Requires further investigation.
He DEFINITELY has very stong links with the local conservative elite. But I am unaware of any tie-ins with the private prison industry.
In the interest of clarity, I've been a resident of Colorado Springs since 1993. So I'm not speaking from any specific source other than some level of awareness of local politics.
Thanks, I appreciate the local perspective.
I did notice a rather conservative slant, when looking at the county comissioners office. I think every single one of them is a Bush-worshipping Republican.
Looks like in April of last year, the CCA were threatening to close their prisons in Colorado entirely unless they got a state subsidy. The state government ended their contract in response to the threats, causing CCA to get prisoners from Arizona to make up the shortfall. Except budget cuts in Arizona caused the prisoners to be recalled back to the state, so the CCA had to shut the facilities anyway.
Turning to the murder...no doubt it was a professional hit. Handgun, answering the door at home, after sunset.
It's also worth noting only once before has a DoC Director been killed, and the last time was in Oregon in 1988, apparently during a botched robbery (the man found guilty claims he was not responsible). In other words, while judges and police officers and prison guards are often targeted by ex-cons, the killing of a DoC Director is extremely rare...and given the reformist attitude of Clements, it would seem convicts would have less reason to kill him than most.
Going by the baseline rarity of such attacks, and the professional manner in which it was carried out, with no signs of robbery or similar, it's hard to conclude this was not a targeted murder.
Yep.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/21/17401216-police-search-for-boxy-car-jogger-in-colorado-prison-chief-shooting?lite
SOLVED! TEH MOOOOSLIMS DID IT!
\
:mullet:
Quote"Corrections is an inherently dangerous career," Alison Morgan, a spokesperson for the Department of Corrections, said on Wednesday.
Yeah, so deadly that exactly TWO directors of corrections have been killed while in office. Wow. I suspect more school janitors have been killed whilst at work than that.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 20, 2013, 06:19:44 PM
Prediction: Some ex-con is going to get this hung around his neck, and he'll get conveniently shot while being arrested.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/22/17414616-did-white-supremacist-kill-colorado-prisons-boss-pizza-delivery-man?lite
Quote"When he came by me, he was running I'd say around 100 miles an hour, just had his left arm out the window, and he was just shooting," said Rex Hoskins, chief of the Decatur, Texas, police. "He wasn't planning on being taken alive."
:lulz:
Everyone's dead, no story to tell.
Wonderful.
Incidentally, you know what is missing from that story? The news that he was paroled post 2008 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/colo-investigators-head-to-texas-to-see-if-police-chase-shootout-links-to-prison-chief-death/2013/03/21/817a4e54-9286-11e2-9173-7f87cda73b49_story.html), likely under Clements leadership of the DoC.
Quote from: Cain on March 22, 2013, 01:50:35 PM
Everyone's dead, no story to tell.
Wonderful.
And CONVENIENT!
QuoteIncidentally, you know what is missing from that story? The news that he was paroled post 2008 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/colo-investigators-head-to-texas-to-see-if-police-chase-shootout-links-to-prison-chief-death/2013/03/21/817a4e54-9286-11e2-9173-7f87cda73b49_story.html), likely under Clements leadership of the DoC.
Clements took over in 2011. He was in Missouri before then, at their corrections department.
Well, I couldn't find an exact date for the parole. We know he was still in prison in 2008, due to his attack on a prison guard at that time. However, given his background and the attitude of the previous DoC, it seems likely he was not paroled until Clements was in. I'm looking for an actual parole date though, as I don't want to go on supposition alone.
Well, how tidy is that?
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 22, 2013, 02:16:50 PM
Well, how tidy is that?
Tidy enough that I felt secure in making the prediction. :lulz:
Two things jump out at me:
QuoteAuthorities say the suspect collided with an 18-wheeler, got out of his car and kept firing until officers shot him. Texas authorities said he was legally dead but being kept alive in a hospital so his organs might be harvested.
WHAT
Also, "harvested?" No one has said "harvested" in connection with organ donation for like 20 years, and it makes it sound like someone is doing it to him, when that would only be legal if he was a registered donor. That is the strangest wording I've seen for such a situation pretty much ever.
QuoteThe car in the crash had a Colorado license plate and matches at least the vague description of the car that was seen outside Clements' home.
In other words, there is nothing whatsoever to connect him to the murders, other than that he's in Colorado and was driving a sedan.
This is entirely speculation, and he is very, very convenient, because nobody likes white supremacists.
I know all about how these people step out of the car firing. Like that kid in New York who clearly maybe had a gun.
This whole thing is like a vortex of weird. It looks shady at first, but then it sucks you in to the truly bizarre.
I know if I was surrounded by armed cops and possibly injured and concussed due to an accident, the very first thing I'd do is commando roll out of my car and start popping pigs heads.
Especially in Texas.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 22, 2013, 02:23:57 PM
Two things jump out at me:
QuoteAuthorities say the suspect collided with an 18-wheeler, got out of his car and kept firing until officers shot him. Texas authorities said he was legally dead but being kept alive in a hospital so his organs might be harvested.
WHAT
Also, "harvested?" No one has said "harvested" in connection with organ donation for like 20 years, and it makes it sound like someone is doing it to him, when that would only be legal if he was a registered donor. That is the strangest wording I've seen for such a situation pretty much ever.
No body afterwards. All sewn up, no nasty loose ends.
Quote from: Cain on March 22, 2013, 02:28:10 PM
I know if I was surrounded by armed cops and possibly injured and concussed due to an accident, the very first thing I'd do is commando roll out of my car and start popping pigs heads.
Especially in Texas.
Of course. What else would you do?
Not that I think PD's consensus is wrong, but y'know, given the way Americans tend to see conspiracy behind everything (and always have), you'd think people in power would learn to be less tidy. Because this is not suspicious at all.
Quote from: Juana Go? on March 22, 2013, 03:22:38 PM
Not that I think PD's consensus is wrong, but y'know, given the way Americans tend to see conspiracy behind everything (and always have), you'd think people in power would learn to be less tidy. Because this is not suspicious at all.
Most conspiracy theories fail in the face of Occam's Razor and the sniff test.
In this case, the moment I saw that he'd been murdered, something wasn't right. And, as you say, this is WAY too tidy.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 22, 2013, 01:46:20 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 20, 2013, 06:19:44 PM
Prediction: Some ex-con is going to get this hung around his neck, and he'll get conveniently shot while being arrested.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/22/17414616-did-white-supremacist-kill-colorado-prisons-boss-pizza-delivery-man?lite
Quote"When he came by me, he was running I'd say around 100 miles an hour, just had his left arm out the window, and he was just shooting," said Rex Hoskins, chief of the Decatur, Texas, police. "He wasn't planning on being taken alive."
:lulz:
Wow.
It's like they weren't even trying to hide it.
Eta: whatever happened to "make it look like an accident."
When I try and engage in my entirely random drive by shootings, I always drive by really fast. I know it makes me more likely to miss, but it adds an element of challenge, you know?
I also let my intended victims see my gun by dangling it out of my car window before driving up to them. Again, it's a challenge thing. Sportsmanship. You wouldn't understand.
Oh, come on. Boys in the Hood was like, 20 years ago. Probably more.
DO YOUR FUCKING RESEARCH, COPS.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 22, 2013, 04:37:08 PM
Oh, come on. Boys in the Hood was like, 20 years ago. Probably more.
DO YOUR FUCKING RESEARCH, COPS.
As long as 80% of the population either buys it or doesn't give a shit, everything's good.
Quote from: Juana Go? on March 22, 2013, 03:22:38 PM
Not that I think PD's consensus is wrong, but y'know, given the way Americans tend to see conspiracy behind everything (and always have), you'd think people in power would learn to be less tidy. Because this is not suspicious at all.
Most conspiracy theories are fucking stupid and rely on giant leaps of faith to hold any cohesion whatsoever.
The issues with the sketchy private prison industry require no faith, just a minimum of awareness of mainstream documented facts about private prison industry corruption and influence on American laws:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/what-is-the-united-states-of-alec/2012/09/27/06dfb1ca-08b6-11e2-afff-d6c7f20a83bf_blog.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57464438/who-is-alec/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/alec-states-unions_b_832428.html
http://www.alternet.org/story/150463/what_is_alec_dragging_the_secretive_conservative_organization_out_of_the_shadows
...and possibly a modicum of recognition that corporations have done worse things out of greed.
http://www.businessinsider.com/nestles-infant-formula-scandal-2012-6?op=1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1780075.stm
http://www.multinationalmonitor.org/mm2005/112005/mokhiber.html
That said, yes, you're right that you would almost want to think that they'd be a little more smooth about it... but the bottom line is that they don't think they have to, and they're mostly right.
Of course, then you have people like RWHN, who is basically in the pocket of ALEC and has an inordinate degree of faith in "the establishment". I'm sure that in his eyes the official reports sound completely watertight and we're just a bunch of off-the-wall loonies for being skeptical. :lol:
This is why I don't buy most conspiracy theories: They imply a certain minimum level of competence on the part of large government organizations. And while I believe that most government employees are individually competent, the organizations themselves (due to decades or centuries of accumulated rules, traditions, etc) are DUMBER THAN FUCK.
Example #1: The CIA has had ONE success (Allende), and even then, it was a mess.
Example #2: Iran/Contra. We can't do ANYTHING right. WORST CONSPIRATORS EVER.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 22, 2013, 04:43:08 PM
Of course, then you have people like RWHN, who is basically in the pocket of ALEC and has an inordinate degree of faith in "the establishment". I'm sure that in his eyes the official reports sound completely watertight and we're just a bunch of off-the-wall loonies for being skeptical. :lol:
Not sure about that last bit. RWHN seems more interested in MAKING PEOPLE GET IN LINE than he does in defending weird shit like this.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 22, 2013, 02:29:01 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 22, 2013, 02:23:57 PM
Two things jump out at me:
QuoteAuthorities say the suspect collided with an 18-wheeler, got out of his car and kept firing until officers shot him. Texas authorities said he was legally dead but being kept alive in a hospital so his organs might be harvested.
WHAT
Also, "harvested?" No one has said "harvested" in connection with organ donation for like 20 years, and it makes it sound like someone is doing it to him, when that would only be legal if he was a registered donor. That is the strangest wording I've seen for such a situation pretty much ever.
No body afterwards. All sewn up, no nasty loose ends.
It's a tradition dating back to JFK's magical disappearing brain.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 22, 2013, 04:02:52 PM
Quote from: Juana Go? on March 22, 2013, 03:22:38 PM
Not that I think PD's consensus is wrong, but y'know, given the way Americans tend to see conspiracy behind everything (and always have), you'd think people in power would learn to be less tidy. Because this is not suspicious at all.
Most conspiracy theories fail in the face of Occam's Razor and the sniff test.
Oh, I know. That's never, ever stopped us, though.
Most people would prefer to believe in fantastical conspiracy theories involving aliens, Nazi zombies, secret societies stretching back to the dawn of time and occult powers gaining sinister control over our lives. Also reptilians, Muslims, JOOS etc.
Unfortunately for them, most conspiracies involve power, money and embarassment. Why did the CIA attempt to kill Castro so many times? Power and money. Why did no-one come forward about Jimmy Savile, despite common knowledge of his crimes? Embarassment and power. Why did Bush redact certain key parts of the 9-11 Commission's findings, specifically to do with Saudi Arabia? Embarassment and money and power.
Also, real conspiracies are inevitably depressing. The spectre of alien invaders attacking us from inside the hollow earth is far more exciting than the truth that the government sometimes pays its intelligence agencies to infiltrate terrorist organizations and then allow them to continue killing because it suits certain status quo political objectives. Especially when you look at the list of people who have died by talking about alien invaders (practically none) versus all the judges and top law enforcement officials, many with personal bodyguards, who died while investigating actual conspiracies.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 22, 2013, 04:47:18 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 22, 2013, 04:43:08 PM
Of course, then you have people like RWHN, who is basically in the pocket of ALEC and has an inordinate degree of faith in "the establishment". I'm sure that in his eyes the official reports sound completely watertight and we're just a bunch of off-the-wall loonies for being skeptical. :lol:
Not sure about that last bit. RWHN seems more interested in MAKING PEOPLE GET IN LINE than he does in defending weird shit like this.
Yeah, but I'm sure he's rolling his eyes at our speculations, because DUH, the OFFICIAL REPORTS are OFFICIAL.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 22, 2013, 05:34:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 22, 2013, 04:47:18 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 22, 2013, 04:43:08 PM
Of course, then you have people like RWHN, who is basically in the pocket of ALEC and has an inordinate degree of faith in "the establishment". I'm sure that in his eyes the official reports sound completely watertight and we're just a bunch of off-the-wall loonies for being skeptical. :lol:
Not sure about that last bit. RWHN seems more interested in MAKING PEOPLE GET IN LINE than he does in defending weird shit like this.
Yeah, but I'm sure he's rolling his eyes at our speculations, because DUH, the OFFICIAL REPORTS are OFFICIAL.
Police
are always honest about this sort of thing.
Quote from: Cain on March 22, 2013, 05:29:34 PM
Most people would prefer to believe in fantastical conspiracy theories involving aliens, Nazi zombies, secret societies stretching back to the dawn of time and occult powers gaining sinister control over our lives. Also reptilians, Muslims, JOOS etc.
Unfortunately for them, most conspiracies involve power, money and embarassment. Why did the CIA attempt to kill Castro so many times? Power and money. Why did no-one come forward about Jimmy Savile, despite common knowledge of his crimes? Embarassment and power. Why did Bush redact certain key parts of the 9-11 Commission's findings, specifically to do with Saudi Arabia? Embarassment and money and power.
Also, real conspiracies are inevitably depressing. The spectre of alien invaders attacking us from inside the hollow earth is far more exciting than the truth that the government sometimes pays its intelligence agencies to infiltrate terrorist organizations and then allow them to continue killing because it suits certain status quo political objectives. Especially when you look at the list of people who have died by talking about alien invaders (practically none) versus all the judges and top law enforcement officials, many with personal bodyguards, who died while investigating actual conspiracies.
Yep. It's all terribly human, mundane, and predictable by virtue of being the entirety of history.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 22, 2013, 05:35:21 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 22, 2013, 05:34:33 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 22, 2013, 04:47:18 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on March 22, 2013, 04:43:08 PM
Of course, then you have people like RWHN, who is basically in the pocket of ALEC and has an inordinate degree of faith in "the establishment". I'm sure that in his eyes the official reports sound completely watertight and we're just a bunch of off-the-wall loonies for being skeptical. :lol:
Not sure about that last bit. RWHN seems more interested in MAKING PEOPLE GET IN LINE than he does in defending weird shit like this.
Yeah, but I'm sure he's rolling his eyes at our speculations, because DUH, the OFFICIAL REPORTS are OFFICIAL.
Police are always honest about this sort of thing.
Well, they're authorities. So of course they are.
Evan Ebel, the kid that was shot in Texas for this, was the son of Jack Ebel, a longtime friend of Governor Hickenlooper.
I guess that could just be a coincidence, but I think it's pretty bizarre.
source: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57576163/hundreds-honor-slain-colorado-prisons-chief-tom-clements/
Evan was a member of the 211's, a white supremacist prison gang. A perfect person/group to pin this on.
I can easily see it as a message: "See, Governor? you can't win against us. we can get to your specially appointed lieutenants, and we can even get to the kids of your friends. You are not safe..."
Hmmm.
Looking into the 211s now. Colorado based....apparently got no ties to any other white supremacist groups whatsoever. That's odd. Founded in 1995, specialized in racketeering, drugs and arms sales, robbery....hmm, and
bribery according to the ADL, though it doesn't say of who or what.
The theory is being floated that the killing was committed by the 221s in response to the DoC shuffling members around the Colorado Prison system in an attempt to disrupt the gang. However, the DoC has denied that it has specifically targeted the 211 gang in this way.
Further evidence comes from a former prisoner and anti-gang activist:
QuoteMore comments undercutting the prisoner-shift hypothesis were offered to the station by Terrance Roberts, an ex-prisoner and former Westword profile subject who founded the anti-gang initiative Prodigal Son. "They break up bible study groups in prisons," he told the station. "I had a bible study group in Fremont and they sent me to another prison. If you're in prison you can expect to do 20 years at one particular prison or you can do a two-year sentence and be at four different penitentiaries."
Source: http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2013/03/tom_clements_murder_211_prison_gang_motive.php
Based on multiple sources, the 211s did order hits, and successfully carried them out on the outside...but their code was broken by police in 2005, which resulted in Benjamin Davis, the group's leader, being put away.
Looks like the gang had some sway (http://swilliamsjd.wordpress.com/tag/211-crew/) over the prison staff as well:
QuoteHoward didn't tell the whole squalid story. He didn't mention the evidence of staff involvement with the gang that made his efforts to seek protection even dicier. He didn't go into how, once he finally started "naming names," as prison investigators demanded, they accused him of crying rape to cover up his own criminal activities. He barely referred to his last day as a Colorado prisoner, when, he says, he was put in a cell with one of the gang leaders and sexually assaulted again.
QuoteA lot of people are taking Howard seriously these days. Since his talk in Washington a year ago, he's emerged as a highly visible "survivor speaker" for Just Detention International, a nonprofit active in the campaign to stop sexual abuse in prison, and a caustic critic of Colorado's DOC and its treatment of rape victims. Last summer he settled a civil-rights lawsuit against several DOC officials for $165,000.
The settlement came as Howard's attorneys were seeking a hearing to investigate how and why the Colorado Attorney General's Office had failed for years to produce a critical document in the case — a 2005 entry in Howard's inmate file that corroborated his claims of seeking help and being ignored. The document, which only surfaced after a private law firm got involved in the defense of a second Howard lawsuit, also casts doubt on the veracity of several sworn affidavits filed by case managers and supervisors claiming that Howard never told them that he was being threatened and extorted.
Er, going back to our Muslim suspect, the Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2297253/White-supremacist-Evan-Ebel-gunned-Colorado-prison-chief-shot-dead-police.html) of all places has some interesting information:
QuoteAl-Turki, a well-known member of Denver's Muslim community, was convicted in state court in 2006 of unlawful sexual contact by use of force, theft and extortion and sentenced to 28 years to life in prison.
Prosecutors said al-Turki kept a housekeeper a virtual slave for four years in his home and sexually assaulted her. A judge reduced the sentence to eight years to life.
Al-Turki insisted the case was politically motivated. He owned a company that some years ago sold The Lives of the Prophets CDs, a series of incendiary sermons recorded by Anwar al-Awlaki, killed in a drone strike in Yemen in 2011.
Al-Turki's conviction angered Saudi officials and prompted the US State Department to send Colorado Attorney General John Suthers to Saudi Arabia to meet with King Abdullah, Crown Prince Sultan and al-Turki's family.
Anonymous sources have told Fox31 Denver that al-Turki's influential relatives in Saudi Arabia have long been putting pressure on Colorado officials to send him back home.
Now that, to me, is interesting.
Influential Saudi royal family members involved in the case, the State Department
and Anwar al-Walaki.
Where have we come across this potentially deadly mix before? Well, practically everywhere in the past few years, to be fair, but especially in the aftermath of 9/11.
We have an influential member of the Denver Muslim community, who has serious pull back in his home country and listens to the sermons of one Anwar al-Walaki. Al-Walaki was in contact with suspected Saudi intelligence agent Omar al-Bayoumi while under FBI surveillance in 2000. Al-Bayoumi helped two of the 9/11 hihackers obtain driver's licenses, rides to Social Security, and information on flight schools. Just before meeting with the two, Al-Bayoumi had a closed door meeting at the Saudi Consulate in Los Angeles. Anwar al-Walaki apparently arranged flights for Mohammed Atta between Washington DC and Miami in 2001.
Not saying any of the latter has to to with the former, I'm only noting the specific interesting linkages that have historically existed between the Saudi Royal Family, Anwar al-Walaki and insufficiently explained deaths.
So, is this Al-Turki part of the Saudi doublegame in the USA? He's in an influential position in the Denver Muslim community, and seems to be sympathetic to certain extremist modes of Islam, and has friends in the Saudi government.
Obviously, this speculation isn't enough to provide a motive, not on it's own. But I think I'm going to start looking into the Colorado drugs scene a little bit more...
Huh, how odd.
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/03/30/tsa_missed_90_of_bom.html
QuoteUndercover agents were able to slip bombs and IEDs past the Transport Security Agency checkpoint at Denver airport 90 percent of the time. Last time I was in Denver, the eagle-eyed agent was able to spot and confiscate my toothpaste, and of course, my suitcase arrived damaged, contents filthy, having been pawed at by a TSA goon and then improperly closed. These eagle-eyed guardians of freedom are so obsessed with making sure that we're all sharing our foot-funguses with each other on while our shoes go through the X-ray machine that they can't actually find actual bombs.
But I'm getting off track here. Back to Clements.
This is all making me feel like I'm down the rabbit hole.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 26, 2013, 02:42:52 PM
This is all making me feel like I'm down the rabbit hole.
HAH! You were BORN down the rabbit hole. We all were.
We're just learning that there might be another possible state of existence.
I want to MAKE everybody read this thread.
They'd just rationalize everything, though. :x