http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22630303
Saw this on the news. What's really fucking with my head is the eyewitness interview of a guy standing, waving a cleaver and a chef's knife, covered in blood after spending the last 20 mins hacking up a soldier. The eyewitness is standing right next to him, chatting away and videoing the him on a mobile phone, instead of, yanno, running like fuck.
The phrase "asking for it" doesn't exactly trip off my tongue in general but I mean, come on? The whole scene is just fucking surreal :eek:
Hmmm. Will keep an eye on this one.
Machetes don't tend to be used much outside of Africa, though, for political violence. I wonder if the assailants were of African origin, or are sympathetic to African Islamist groups?
Something fucking stinks here, but I'm not yet sure where to vent ire first.
This:
QuoteDowning Street said Mr Cameron, who had been planning to stay in Paris overnight after meeting the French president, would be returning to the UK tonight.
One witness, identified only as James, said two men had attacked another man, aged about 20, who was wearing a T-shirt of military charity Help for Heroes.
"These two guys were crazed. They were just animals. They dragged him from the pavement and dumped his body in the middle of the road and left his body there," he told LBC radio.
He said after the "horrendous" attack, the two men, who were also in their 20s, stood around, waving knives and a gun, and asked people to take pictures of them "as if they wanted to be on TV or something".
Makes me think this is going to be spun to fuck regardless of whatever it was that has actually gone on. It does not seem to fit the typical islamic extremist model. Knife crime and attacks with swords and the like is surprisngly common in the UK, there's usually a particularaly bloody story every 3-6 months. Need to know more, guessing COBRA meeting was an over-reaction due to military involvement and them being generally good at over-reacting. Need more info, but this should be amusing.
Edit - Cain, I've seen Machete and Butchers cleaver touted round so far. Still waiting on official word. It did mention the guy was black, but I'd really doubt it's a cultural thing on that front.
Double edit- Ta P3nt, will find that clip.
That's true, the press are usually terrible at telling a machete from any other kind of big knife, and if the guy was black, they may have just leapt to a conclusion without doing the proper research. Kinda like what I'm doing, except I'll admit it's speculation.
One witness is saying one of the suspects had a firearm, too.
Quote from: Cain on May 22, 2013, 07:45:26 PM
Hmmm. Will keep an eye on this one.
Machetes don't tend to be used much outside of Africa, though, for political violence. I wonder if the assailants were of African origin, or are sympathetic to African Islamist groups?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws_HF9qSrYI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws_HF9qSrYI) Accent sounds to me like African but been here quite a while
EDL rioting.
Various racist shit occurring.
The Daily Mail and Telegraph are going to be insufferable for the next month. In the case of the EDL, that they can only muster a hundred guys in central London suggests they are on the wane, in conjunction with other reports I've heard.
This looks like a lone wolf attack, but I'm going to reserve judgement on that. Here's an interesting possibility - UK residents and citizens have joined Al-Shabab before, the militant Somalian jihadist outfit. Just putting it out there.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2013/may/23/english-defence-league-woolwich-video (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2013/may/23/english-defence-league-woolwich-video)
the racist bullshit on some of my mates FB feeds is getting bad, apparently.
I haven't had much of it due to my hard core "DELETE" policy in terms of racism, sexism and other crap.
Seems the guys were known to security services prior to this event.
Any and all details sketchy. Further feeling of "Fucking stinks".
QuoteSources said reports that the men had featured in "several investigations" in recent years, but were not deemed to be planning an attack, "were not inaccurate".
They confirmed that one of the suspects was intercepted by police last year while leaving the country.
Hmm. On the one hand, the security services are meant to be in contact with potential terrorists, it is part of doing their job.
On the other hand, this blows the theory that they were random "lone wolves" whose actions could have never been predicted right out of the water. They were on someone's list. Question is: why, what for, and what was missed here?
Adebolajo is a Nigerian name, also. Boko Haram or Ansaru? Al-Qaeda in Yemen also has some people in that part of Africa.
Yeah. It's a kinda depressing facet of human nature. When presented with something shocking and horrible the default response is to be more shocking and more horrible right back.
This whole - village for an eye - mentality makes it really difficult for society to function without constant escalation of hostility. Welcome to the talking monkey planet, where mutually assured destruction is only ever one spilled pint away :kingmeh:
Pixie, would you object if I merge this with the ongoing "Machete terror?" thread?
From what I have heard, they are Nigerian.
Also, this is sickening as fuck.
Pix just posted a link on FB to an interesting article (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/woolwich-murder-they-killed-then-they-performed--these-men-should-be-starved-of-our-attention-8628664.html). Whilst I didn't agree with most of what the journo was spouting I think he hit the nail on the head with the "reality teevee" and "social networking" aspect. The witnesses stood around interviewing the guys on their cellphone cameras ffs.
Are we witnessing the birth of something new here?
Monkeys gawking at horrific events while doing nothing to help is as old as time.
What we are witnessing is the ability to spread the gawk at an ever increasing rate.
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 23, 2013, 04:10:42 PM
Monkeys gawking at horrific events while doing nothing to help is as old as time.
What we are witnessing is the ability to spread the gawk at an ever increasing rate.
This.
And the fact that the two guys seemed very media savvy and exploiting it far more slickly than the usual mob. Like it's not just enough to be a terrorist now, you have to be a "presenter"
I'd guess at least half of being an effective terrorist is how good you are at PR.
Osama's frequent tapes, statements of websites and now this.
This still seems to be a random outlier in the most part. The nature of the attack and waiting around for arrest are still very strange to me. I would have assumed that a single violent incident is not the most effective strategy for terror. In this instance it seems you've got 2 arrested "terrorists" for the victim.
absolutely no problem.
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 23, 2013, 04:58:53 PM
I'd guess at least half of being an effective terrorist is how good you are at PR.
Osama's frequent tapes, statements of websites and now this.
This still seems to be a random outlier in the most part. The nature of the attack and waiting around for arrest are still very strange to me. I would have assumed that a single violent incident is not the most effective strategy for terror. In this instance it seems you've got 2 arrested "terrorists" for the victim.
It's PR, and shows how devoted you are to the cause.
Think of the fi'dais, the pointy end of business for the Assassin sect. After a killing, they never ran away, never even lifted a hand to protect themselves. They did so to signal two things:
1) that they were responsible. This was not an act of simple murder, it was an act of war by the Old Man of the Mountains, and
2) they were so zealous, so convinced of the rightness of their cause, that they would not flee like a common criminal. They are willing to kill and to die for their cause.
If they had just killed the guy and ran off, then they wouldn't have had their statements beamed across the world by willing reporters. People might have assumed it was a hit-and-run incident, a mugging gone wrong, or a personal dispute. The message would have not been made.
Besides, a two man cell is hardly going to bring the country to its knees. This act itself is only notable for its particular brutality, and the political reasoning behind it. 500 knife murders a year in the UK, after all. If it were not for the act of staying to communicate their political message, this wouldnt even register as a terrorist attack in most people's minds.
mate of mine said earlier that his friends on officer training at Southampton Uni have received orders that all armed forces personnel have been ordered not to wear uniforms in London. The military centres there all have armed guards outside.
http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/05/23/did-muslims-in-oldham-celebrate-the-woolwich-attack-no/
Quote from: Cain on May 23, 2013, 06:05:22 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 23, 2013, 04:58:53 PM
I'd guess at least half of being an effective terrorist is how good you are at PR.
Osama's frequent tapes, statements of websites and now this.
This still seems to be a random outlier in the most part. The nature of the attack and waiting around for arrest are still very strange to me. I would have assumed that a single violent incident is not the most effective strategy for terror. In this instance it seems you've got 2 arrested "terrorists" for the victim.
It's PR, and shows how devoted you are to the cause.
Think of the fi'dais, the pointy end of business for the Assassin sect. After a killing, they never ran away, never even lifted a hand to protect themselves. They did so to signal two things:
1) that they were responsible. This was not an act of simple murder, it was an act of war by the Old Man of the Mountains, and
2) they were so zealous, so convinced of the rightness of their cause, that they would not flee like a common criminal. They are willing to kill and to die for their cause.
If they had just killed the guy and ran off, then they wouldn't have had their statements beamed across the world by willing reporters. People might have assumed it was a hit-and-run incident, a mugging gone wrong, or a personal dispute. The message would have not been made.
Besides, a two man cell is hardly going to bring the country to its knees. This act itself is only notable for its particular brutality, and the political reasoning behind it. 500 knife murders a year in the UK, after all. If it were not for the act of staying to communicate their political message, this wouldn't even register as a terrorist attack in most people's minds.
I've been patiently trying to explain this to people all fucking day. Basically the two black guys started out by doing nothing unusual. They knifed a guy to death. This is not even national news. It's a frigging byline in the local press, that's it. It was the witnesses who made it news. The killers lit the fuse, it was the great british public who supplied the powder. It was the subsequent reportage that made it the crime of the frigging century and got the EDL all screaming "burn down the mosques" and half of facebook ranting and raving about what's the world coming to and kick out all the ragheads.
Fine, kick out all the ragheads. You know what'll happen? Tomorrow a guy will get stabbed to death. By a white person. Business as usual. Then what? Kick out all the white people too?
At least these guys were doing it for a reason. I don't have to agree with their reason or agree with how they went about making their point but I'd be a lying bastard if I said they didn't have a point to make. The guy who stabbed the guy to death last week? or the week before, or the week before that? The one's that never ended up on the news? Pretty sure they didn't even have a point. Or the balls to stick around and make sure it got made.
I respect them for that. I fucking hate them for behaving like complete wankers but you don't have to like someone to respect them. Those last three white guys? I don't like or respect them. They're just fucking animals.
Thanks Gents, I've been thinking about this a bit more and came to similar thoughts to the pair of you.
Also, it's probably notable more as one of the first thing like this that's gone viral. Rotten and other sites have existed since practically the dawn of the internet. You either had to know about them or go looking though. This is one of the first incidents that's spread rapidly in the youtube age. There's also a noticeable lack of police which is what witness footage tends to have at some point. That's probably going to be quite jarring for some when they realise that there's not always police around.
This is going to be spun into needing "More officers on the beat" I think. Notice how there's no mention of the local Police and Crime Commissioner? Also helps expose that as a bullshit do-nothing job. Or this is way above their pay grade.
Remember, when seconds count, the police are just minutes away.
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on May 23, 2013, 09:17:35 PM
Remember, when seconds count, the police are just minutes away.
Remember that the police aren't actually there to protect people. They can't do it, unless you want a cop assigned to every person in the country. Police exist - in theory, anyway - to maintain order.
Or was that just some knee-jerk NRA stuff? They do some of the finest fear-mongering in the world.
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on May 23, 2013, 09:17:35 PM
Remember, when seconds count, the police are just minutes away.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 23, 2013, 09:19:21 PMRemember that the police aren't actually there to protect people.
True that:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 23, 2013, 09:19:21 PMOr was that just some knee-jerk NRA stuff?
Both. But I've found it to be true.
My ex-wife pulled my pistol on some drunk-ass kid who was about to beat and possibly kill another drunk-ass kid on our porch with a steel pipe.
Having a loaded and cocked revolver pointed at his face proved remarkably sobering. :roll:
How the fuck are guns relevant to a discussion about an incident in the UK?
America is NOT the world...
jeez
Quote from: Pixie on May 23, 2013, 11:17:25 PM
How the fuck are guns relevant to a discussion about an incident in the UK?
America is NOT the world...
jeez
The UK banned guns, now people have to do each other in manually?
You're right, off-topic.
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on May 23, 2013, 11:53:51 PM
Quote from: Pixie on May 23, 2013, 11:17:25 PM
How the fuck are guns relevant to a discussion about an incident in the UK?
America is NOT the world...
jeez
The UK banned guns, now people have to do each other in manually?
You're right, off-topic.
Stop being a douche.
Guns are irrelevant to this discussion.
Quote from: Cain on May 23, 2013, 11:59:51 PM
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on May 23, 2013, 11:53:51 PM
Quote from: Pixie on May 23, 2013, 11:17:25 PM
How the fuck are guns relevant to a discussion about an incident in the UK?
America is NOT the world...
jeez
The UK banned guns, now people have to do each other in manually?
You're right, off-topic.
Stop being a douche.
Guns are irrelevant to this discussion.
Pretty much.
I need an adult in government to tell me if this was terrorism or not:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/02/birmingham-murder-racially-motivated-police
QuoteA 75-year-old man stabbed to death yards from his home may have been targeted in a racially motivated attack, according to police.
Mohammed Saleem, who used a walking stick, was stabbed three times in the back as he returned home from prayers at his local mosque in Small Heath, Birmingham, on Monday night.
The blows were struck with such violence they penetrated to the front of his body.
The father of seven also had no defensive wounds in what has been described as a swift, vicious and cowardly attack by the man leading the murder investigation, Detective Superintendent Mark Payne of West Midlands police.
Officers want to trace a white man, aged 25-32, of medium height and build, spotted on CCTV footage running near the scene of the attack around the time it happened, just before 10.30pm.
Police also want to trace a seven-seat people carrier captured on CCTV, driving near the mosque with the two male occupants, both white and in their 30s, who are considered "significant witnesses".
In an emotional family appeal on Thursday, two of Saleem's daughters, Shazia Khan, 45, and Nazia Maqsood, 44, called for the attackers to hand themselves in. They tearfully described their father as a "widely respected member of the community" and "much-loved".
Payne said the possibility it was a racially motivated attack was "a significant line of inquiry" and a large number of detectives were working on the case. "To the attacker I say we will find you and we will bring you to justice," he added.
Quote from: Cain on May 24, 2013, 12:25:07 AM
I need an adult in government to tell me if this was terrorism or not:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/02/birmingham-murder-racially-motivated-police
QuoteA 75-year-old man stabbed to death yards from his home may have been targeted in a racially motivated attack, according to police.
Mohammed Saleem, who used a walking stick, was stabbed three times in the back as he returned home from prayers at his local mosque in Small Heath, Birmingham, on Monday night.
The blows were struck with such violence they penetrated to the front of his body.
The father of seven also had no defensive wounds in what has been described as a swift, vicious and cowardly attack by the man leading the murder investigation, Detective Superintendent Mark Payne of West Midlands police.
Officers want to trace a white man, aged 25-32, of medium height and build, spotted on CCTV footage running near the scene of the attack around the time it happened, just before 10.30pm.
Police also want to trace a seven-seat people carrier captured on CCTV, driving near the mosque with the two male occupants, both white and in their 30s, who are considered "significant witnesses".
In an emotional family appeal on Thursday, two of Saleem's daughters, Shazia Khan, 45, and Nazia Maqsood, 44, called for the attackers to hand themselves in. They tearfully described their father as a "widely respected member of the community" and "much-loved".
Payne said the possibility it was a racially motivated attack was "a significant line of inquiry" and a large number of detectives were working on the case. "To the attacker I say we will find you and we will bring you to justice," he added.
fuck. I'd heard about that one through the grapevine.
Blah, my facebook feed is all about how if this happened in the US the guy would be alive because guns fuck yeah.
As if stabbings don't happen here.
*edit*
I should have noted *in public* since that was the point made in the posts, I should have screen capped the derp, but oddly all those posts are gone. I'm also not blocked, so that's new.
Quote from: Cain on May 24, 2013, 12:25:07 AM
I need an adult in government to tell me if this was terrorism or not:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/02/birmingham-murder-racially-motivated-police
QuoteA 75-year-old man stabbed to death yards from his home may have been targeted in a racially motivated attack, according to police.
Mohammed Saleem, who used a walking stick, was stabbed three times in the back as he returned home from prayers at his local mosque in Small Heath, Birmingham, on Monday night.
The blows were struck with such violence they penetrated to the front of his body.
The father of seven also had no defensive wounds in what has been described as a swift, vicious and cowardly attack by the man leading the murder investigation, Detective Superintendent Mark Payne of West Midlands police.
Officers want to trace a white man, aged 25-32, of medium height and build, spotted on CCTV footage running near the scene of the attack around the time it happened, just before 10.30pm.
Police also want to trace a seven-seat people carrier captured on CCTV, driving near the mosque with the two male occupants, both white and in their 30s, who are considered "significant witnesses".
In an emotional family appeal on Thursday, two of Saleem's daughters, Shazia Khan, 45, and Nazia Maqsood, 44, called for the attackers to hand themselves in. They tearfully described their father as a "widely respected member of the community" and "much-loved".
Payne said the possibility it was a racially motivated attack was "a significant line of inquiry" and a large number of detectives were working on the case. "To the attacker I say we will find you and we will bring you to justice," he added.
No, Cain, terrorism is only when brown people do it to white people, not the other way around.
This trial is going to be a clusterfuck.
The press is airing videos of the attack at an alarming rate, which is going to mean finding jurists who haven't seen the footage nearly impossible.
John Reid is now blubbering about how the Communications Data Bill (aka "All Your Data Are Belong to Us" bill) could have prevented this though, typically, he fails to mention
how. The fact they were already on the security service radar does rather undermine his position....like with the American lists of "people of interest", the problem isn't putting ever more people onto a system, it's refining who actually deserves to be on the list and eliminating false positives.
Eric Pickles has been running around defending the security services...well, waddling around. Exercise isn't really his thing:
QuoteMr Pickles told BBC Breakfast: "Peers and MPs will do a thorough investigation in terms of what the security forces knew but I've seen experts on security explaining how difficult it is in a free society to be able to control everyone."
Of course, this argument will be disregarded once the Data Communications Bill is reintroduced to Parliament. It's a cynical argument, deployed to defend the security serves for their failure in this regard. Precisely how much blame lies with them does remain to be seen, but the facts are that they knew of these two men, but were unable to discern their intent.
Two additional people were arrested on conspiracy to murder, and are being held at a South London police station. Press is being very quiet about that one, only a byline in the Guardian's feeds yesterday.
Islamphobic violence is spiking. According to the publically available date, there were 38 reported incidents on Wednesday, where as the daily average of reported incidents is 4. Beyond this, a large body of intimidating threats are coming out of far right groups, with threats to burn down mosques being a daily occurence. The address of Fiyaz Mughal, of the inter-faith group Faith Matters, has been published on Twitter, alongside invitations to shoot him.
Well, you know, erosion of civilization etc etc.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22664468
Quote from: Pixie on May 26, 2013, 01:35:44 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22664468
Seems logical enough that they'd want to try to recruit the guy.
Quote from: Cain on May 24, 2013, 11:21:00 AM
...like with the American lists of "people of interest", the problem isn't putting ever more people onto a system, it's refining who actually deserves to be on the list and eliminating false positives.
...Very hard to do.
I honestly wonder if these watch lists are just security theater.
Like a lot of what the TSA does. (and I do, for that matter)
Quote from: Cain on May 24, 2013, 11:21:00 AM
John Reid is now blubbering about how the Communications Data Bill (aka "All Your Data Are Belong to Us" bill) could have prevented this though, typically, he fails to mention how.
Probably the same way they'd charge you for releasing videos capturing officialdom's misconduct?
Gah.
Quote from: Cain on May 24, 2013, 11:21:00 AMPrecisely how much blame lies with them does remain to be seen, but the facts are that they knew of these two men, but were unable to discern their intent.
Back when I was an anarcho-syndicalist, I vaguely remember reading about how to operate a terror cell.
This, whozit that's slipped my mind, observed that you MUST not inform anyone unnecessary to carrying out
any illegal activity. If you tell them, they are then an
accessory and keeping their mouths shut can result in a perjury charge.
I think 9-11 could have been stopped, but that was a BIG plot.
This was something the two attackers worked out between themselves, and I imagine they did it face-to-face in some random public locale that they chose b/c it likely wasn't bugged.
I think asking your police to stop something like this is asking the impossible.
These guys doing it right:
QuoteA mosque has been praised for serving tea and biscuits to English Defence League supporters after the far-right group arranged a demonstration there.
About six people turned up to protest at the mosque in Bull Lane, York, on Sunday and were invited inside to play football with worshippers.
More than 100 supporters of the mosque had gone there after learning of the planned EDL protest.
Archbishop of York Dr John Sentamu said the mosque's response was "fantastic".
He said: "Tea, biscuits, and football are a great and typically Yorkshire combination when it comes to disarming hostile and extremist views."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-22689552
The rest of the article has a couple of back handed compliments but the original action was pure class.
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 29, 2013, 10:23:40 AM
These guys doing it right:
QuoteA mosque has been praised for serving tea and biscuits to English Defence League supporters after the far-right group arranged a demonstration there.
About six people turned up to protest at the mosque in Bull Lane, York, on Sunday and were invited inside to play football with worshippers.
More than 100 supporters of the mosque had gone there after learning of the planned EDL protest.
Archbishop of York Dr John Sentamu said the mosque's response was "fantastic".
He said: "Tea, biscuits, and football are a great and typically Yorkshire combination when it comes to disarming hostile and extremist views."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-22689552
The rest of the article has a couple of back handed compliments but the original action was pure class.
That's beautiful.
Oh dear.
Looks like Michael Adebolajo was picked up by Kenyan authorities, and then tortured at the behest of British intelligence, who later harassed him when he returned to the UK to work for them as an informant:
http://www.nafeezahmed.com/2013/05/exclusive-woolwich-suspect-tortured-at.html
QuoteA letter to the UK Parliament's Intelligence and Security Committee by a childhood friend of one of the Woolwich attackers claims that the suspect was subjected to "systematic torture and sexual abuse" by Kenyan troops on behalf of Britain's security services.
The letter - exclusive excerpts of which are quoted below - is authored by Ibrahim Hassan, otherwise known as "Abu Nusaybah", who was interviewed by Richard Watson on BBC Newsnight claiming that MI5 had been harassing Woolwich suspect Michael "Mujahid" Adebolajo to join the agency as an informant six months ago. Hassan was arrested by Metropolitan Police under the Terrorism Act 2000 immediately after his BBC interview, and is currently in custody at Southwark Police Station.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22664468
QuoteIn his Newsnight interview, Abu Nusaybah said he thought "a change" had taken place in his friend after a trip to Kenya last year.
He said Mr Adebolajo had told him he travelled there "to study", but instead, was part of a group rounded up by "Kenyan troops" and interrogated in a prison cell.
During his detention he said he was "beaten quite badly", Abu Nusaybah said, and in his opinion, his friend had also been subjected to sexual abuse, although he was too "ashamed" to say exactly what happened.
After this, he became withdrawn "and less talkative - he wasn't his bubbly self", Abu Nusaybah said, adding: "His mind was somewhere else."
He also said Mr Adebolajo was "stopped" upon his return to the UK from Kenya and was later "followed up by MI5" who were "knocking on his door".
He was "basically being harassed", Abu Nusaybah said.
He added: "His wording was, 'They are bugging me - they won't leave me alone.'
"Initially they wanted to ask him if he knew certain individuals.
"But after him saying that he didn't know these individuals, what he said was they asked him if he would be interested in working for them.
"He was explicit in that he refused to work for them but he did confirm he didn't know the individuals."
QuoteAbu Nusaybah was arrested at the BBC after giving the interview.
Details of the charges against him can be read here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/31/abu-nusaybah-woolwich-suspect-friend-charged).
Also worth noting that Adebolajo was a member of the most current incarnation of Al Muhajiroun - I believe the name is now Izhar Ud-Deen-il-Haq. According to former US military intelligence officer John Loftus (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/sep/10/terrorism.politics), Al Muhajiroun was a MI6 front organization, and its three founding members (Omar Bakri, Abu Hamza, and Haroon Rashid Aswat) were informants for the agency, and had used them to recruit for covert wars in the Balkans. Bakri also acted as an informant for the security services on more than a few occasions (http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=aspring2005bakriinformant#aspring2005bakriinformant).
As The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/23/suspect-michael-adebolajo-woolwich-jihad) puts it:
QuoteThe 28-year-old was a regular at the al-Muhajiroun stall outside the HSBC branch on Woolwich high street, handing out extremist literature, and one witness said he was recently seen outside Plumstead community centre encouraging an audience to go to Syria to fight.
For the last eight years his activities have been such that he featured in several counter-terrorist investigations, always as a peripheral figure and not the central subject of the inquiry. Sources said there was nothing in his activities which indicated that he might carry out such an attack.
Also worth noting: one in five people convicted of terrorist offences in the UK in the last decade has been a member of, or associated with, al-Muhajiroun (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10079827/Woolwich-attack-Al-Muhajiroun-linked-to-one-in-five-terrorist-convictions.html).
Ah fuck.
Well this adds another layer of shitstorm to any trial. Guess this helps explain some of the secret court shenanigans over the past few years too. If it's a known possibility, it'd be mad not to try and cover your arse in a worst case situation.
I'd never even heard of al-Muhajiroun before. Interesting stuff, Cain!
Whole case buried under a steaming pile of official secrets bullshit in 3...2...1...
Quote from: Waffles, Viking Princess of Northern Belgium on May 31, 2013, 03:20:53 PM
I'd never even heard of al-Muhajiroun before. Interesting stuff, Cain!
At the moment, they're run by media friendly nutcase Anjem Choudary, who, if you're in any way familiar with the UK extremist Islamic scene, you will have heard of.
Choudary is very, very good at drawing media attention to himself. The tabloids villify him, and the major press invite him onto panels and into talks. In fact, Choudary's access to programs like, for example, Channel 4 news, is nothing less than extraordinary in a country which, once upon a time, refused to allow members of the PIRA to have their messages broadcast.
Quote from: Cain on May 31, 2013, 05:59:16 PM
Quote from: Waffles, Viking Princess of Northern Belgium on May 31, 2013, 03:20:53 PM
I'd never even heard of al-Muhajiroun before. Interesting stuff, Cain!
At the moment, they're run by media friendly nutcase Anjem Choudary, who, if you're in any way familiar with the UK extremist Islamic scene, you will have heard of.
Choudary is very, very good at drawing media attention to himself. The tabloids villify him, and the major press invite him onto panels and into talks. In fact, Choudary's access to programs like, for example, Channel 4 news, is nothing less than extraordinary in a country which, once upon a time, refused to allow members of the PIRA to have their messages broadcast.
I know of Choudary. I had no idea of his media whoring levels, though. This might be, in part, due to me not watching television.
Yeah, though he gets his fair share of press attention, too. I wouldn't blame you for missing the majority of it, since it mostly consists of equally nutty commentary from The Sun.
Quote from: Cain on May 31, 2013, 10:58:30 PM
Yeah, though he gets his fair share of press attention, too. I wouldn't blame you for missing the majority of it, since it mostly consists of equally nutty commentary from The Sun.
I don't think I've ever read The Sun.
One doesn't read The Sun. One looks at Page 3 of The Sun, and absorbs the general tenor of the paper through pictures.
Quote from: Cain on June 02, 2013, 04:47:56 PM
One doesn't read The Sun. One looks at Page 3 of The Sun, and absorbs the general tenor of the paper through pictures.
Oh, it's one of
those papers.
Clusterfuck warming up nicely:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22748021
QuoteThe two men accused of murdering soldier Lee Rigby have both been remanded in custody after making separate court appearances.
Michael Adebolajo, 28, appeared before Westminster magistrates holding a copy of the Koran and stating he wished to be known as Mujahid Abu Hamza.
I'm sure the name bears no significance at all and will not come up in the trial at any point.
QuoteHe was also charged with the attempted murder of two police officers and possession of a firearm, a 9.4mm KNIL Model 91 revolver.
Flanked by two plain-clothes police officers and a prison guard, Mr Adebolajo appeared in court on Monday with his lower left arm in a cast.
He was wearing a white t-shirt and white trousers and blew a kiss to a man in the public gallery before both pointed to the sky.
Mr Adebolajo told the bench he wanted to be known as Mujahid Abu Hamza, and his barrister referred to him by that name.
When he was asked to stand, he said: "May I ask why? May I ask why?" When told it was customary, he replied: "I want to sit."
At the end of the hearing, he told Deputy Chief Magistrate Emma Arbuthnot: "I would like to alleviate the pain, if I may."
He then kissed the Koran and raised his arm into the air.
Can you say "Daring the judge to find him in contempt"? I can.
QuoteMr Adebowale, of Greenwich, south-east London, who spent six days in hospital, was remanded in custody by Westminster Magistrates' Court last Thursday.
He also faces the same firearms charge as Mr Adebolajo.
During the hearing on Monday, at which he appeared via video link from Belmarsh Prison, he spoke only to confirm his name.
Strikes me as a little odd. I think this guy may turn out to be the more interesting of the two. No real reason, just a hunch.
Well, looks like the EDL firebombed a mosque (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/05/police-edl-link-blaze-islamic-centre) 20 minutes up the road from me.
QuoteRight-wing English Defence League denies responsibility as neighbours report explosion in early hours
Counter-terrorism police are investigating a fire that destroyed an Islamic community centre in north London after confirming that graffiti linked to a far-right group had been daubed on the outside of the building.
Amid fears of reprisals following the murder of Drummer Lee Rigby in Woolwich, south-east London, specialist officers from the Metropolitan police's counter-terrorism command took charge of the investigation into the suspected arson attack at the centre in Muswell Hill.
Police said graffiti reading "EDL" – believed to stand for the English Defence League – was found on the outside of the building, while neighbours reported hearing an explosion in the early hours of Wednesday morning.
Note, actual CT police officers getting involved. That means someone is actually taking this seriously, which is amazing for terrorism potentially committed by white people without Irish accents.
but are they calling it terrorism, or something else?
Still at the stage of investigating whether the fire was suspicious. But, well, you don't use counter-terrorism police if you suspect an accidental fire.
I've heard "Domestic Extremism" thrown around recently. That seems to be the phrase of choice for white non-Irish idiots.
Related:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22795887
QuoteSix men who planned a terror attack on an English Defence League rally could have sparked a "spiral of violence and terror", a court has heard.
The plot failed when the men arrived at the event last June two hours too late.
Omar Mohammed Khan, Mohammed Hasseen, Anzal Hussain, Mohammed Saud, Zohaib Ahmed and Jewel Uddin, all from the West Midlands, were in court at the start of a two-day sentencing hearing.
They have already been warned to expect "significant" time in jail.
Five of the six would-be attackers were caught by chance when traffic police stopped their uninsured car - after they had turned back to head home because the EDL rally in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire had finished early.
I'd guess this is feeding into the overall EDL activity, to be honest i'd completely forgotten about the event.
The amount of racist shit going around here is pretty fucking sickening. I really wish I was surprised.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23099824
QuoteThe two men accused of murdering soldier Lee Rigby will stand trial on 18 November, it has been decided at an Old Bailey hearing.
Michael Adebolajo, 28, and Michael Adebowale, 22, appeared at a scheduling hearing via video link from separate rooms in Belmarsh prison, London.
QuoteMichael Adebolajo, whose left arm appeared to be in a cast, is also accused of the attempted murder of two police officers and possession of a firearm with intent to cause others to believe that violence would be used.
I get the feeling that arm injury is going to come up again. As far as I can recall he was arrested without incident or injury, so that would indicate an "accident" in custody. I'm pretty sure this guy was taken to the police station made entirely out of stairs and sharp corners.
Bump
Yes, consider the source (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638314/Did-MI5-help-Lee-Rigby-killer-escape-Kenyan-jail-murdered-soldier-MPs-probe-claims-Adebolajo-sprung-free-arrested-trying-join-terror-group.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490), but...
QuoteThe Security Services are facing demands from MPs to answer 'deeply troubling' claims that they left one of Lee Rigby's murderers free to kill by helping him escape jail overseas.
MPs have been told by senior Kenyan officials they wanted to lock up Michael Adebolajo for terrorism offences when he was caught trying to join a notorious Islamist group.
But it is claimed that MI5 intervened and insisted Adebolajo be set free.
He was allowed to return to Britain, and last year he mowed down and hacked to death the soldier outside Army barracks in Woolwich, South-East London.
This would not be unheard of, and is in fact almost exactly from the FBI playbook.
And we also have to ask how many times this needs to happen before "we assisted the wrong guy" doesn't cut it anymore, that the stupidity and incompetence explanations are not sufficient and we need to start considering ulterior motives for constantly springing terrorists free from custody, for covering up for them, taking them off watch lists and helping them avoid scrutiny.
Because another country had a revolving door for terrorists going to prison, and that country was Italy.