Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Apple Talk => Topic started by: Pergamos on May 25, 2013, 12:02:57 PM

Title: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Pergamos on May 25, 2013, 12:02:57 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/pope-francis-good-atheists_n_3320757.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

He hasn't won me over to liking him yet, but it's a start.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Cain on May 25, 2013, 02:34:48 PM
I'd be more impressed if he had been inclined towards "doing good" during the Argentinian junta.

I mean, applying the Pope's own standard to himself here: his belief is that atheists can be good people.  Great.  His actions were supporting a regime that treated atheists as crypto-Marxists and actual socialists as enemies of the state.

So yeah.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 25, 2013, 02:36:01 PM
So he's basically admitting that wearing silly dresses and mumbling in cold buildings is irrelevant. I like his style :lulz:

Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: GrannySmith on May 25, 2013, 02:47:17 PM
I say PFffffFFT. "Doing good" is all that matters, YEAH RIGHT. Blaaablabalaablaaabalaaa  :argh!: :argh!: Fucking pedofile protecting, human-nature-hating, wealth-hoarding, nazi loving sons of bitches catholic priests and popes!!!!!!!!  :argh!: :argh!: :argh!:
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Pergamos on May 25, 2013, 07:33:37 PM
Quote from: Cain on May 25, 2013, 02:34:48 PM
I'd be more impressed if he had been inclined towards "doing good" during the Argentinian junta.

I mean, applying the Pope's own standard to himself here: his belief is that atheists can be good people.  Great.  His actions were supporting a regime that treated atheists as crypto-Marxists and actual socialists as enemies of the state.

So yeah.

This is true.  So by his own standard he's gonna have a hard time getting into heaven.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 25, 2013, 07:38:51 PM
He'll say whatever he has to.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Pergamos on May 25, 2013, 07:51:58 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 25, 2013, 07:38:51 PM
He'll say whatever he has to.

He doesn't have to say it though.  That's why I like him for saying it.  he's the pope, he can say whatever he likes and he certainly doesn't have to say soemthing that is contradictory to traditional Catholic dogma.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Nephew Twiddleton on May 25, 2013, 08:03:48 PM
Quote from: GrannySmith on May 25, 2013, 02:47:17 PM
I say PFffffFFT. "Doing good" is all that matters, YEAH RIGHT. Blaaablabalaablaaabalaaa  :argh!: :argh!: Fucking pedofile protecting, human-nature-hating, wealth-hoarding, nazi loving sons of bitches catholic priests and popes!!!!!!!!  :argh!: :argh!: :argh!:

But is Francis guilty of these things? Like did he ever shield a pedophile?
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 25, 2013, 08:36:04 PM
The church was all about good works until about the 70's, resulting in a schism with several orders when whichever pope it was decided to dial it back and told a bunch of nuns to knock off the helping people.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Richter on May 25, 2013, 11:17:02 PM
The church has nearly split over the arguement of what combination of faith and good acts get one saved before.  Record aside he's hit Ecumanical Council hot button material head on.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: The Johnny on May 26, 2013, 12:41:19 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on May 25, 2013, 07:51:58 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 25, 2013, 07:38:51 PM
He'll say whatever he has to.

He doesn't have to say it though.  That's why I like him for saying it.  he's the pope, he can say whatever he likes and he certainly doesn't have to say soemthing that is contradictory to traditional Catholic dogma.

All of his charismatic posturing as being humble and poor, to me, are just bullshit PR work.

As long as the institution keeps working as it has been lately, he's just providing a pretty mask for a monster.

I don't like monsters.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 26, 2013, 05:18:50 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on May 26, 2013, 12:41:19 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on May 25, 2013, 07:51:58 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 25, 2013, 07:38:51 PM
He'll say whatever he has to.

He doesn't have to say it though.  That's why I like him for saying it.  he's the pope, he can say whatever he likes and he certainly doesn't have to say soemthing that is contradictory to traditional Catholic dogma.

All of his charismatic posturing as being humble and poor, to me, are just bullshit PR work.

As long as the institution keeps working as it has been lately, he's just providing a pretty mask for a monster.

I don't like monsters.

Yes.

Although the statement that not all non-Catholics are going to hell is still pretty cool because it could change a lot of attitudes.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Left on May 26, 2013, 06:24:58 AM
Quote from: GrannySmith on May 25, 2013, 02:47:17 PM
I say PFffffFFT. "Doing good" is all that matters, YEAH RIGHT. Blaaablabalaablaaabalaaa  :argh!: :argh!: Fucking pedofile protecting, human-nature-hating, wealth-hoarding, nazi loving sons of bitches catholic priests and popes!!!!!!!!  :argh!: :argh!: :argh!:

*regrets having used the one-pun-a-day allowance*

Maybe if they wanted to do good, they could stop telling people that God hates birth control.

Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 26, 2013, 05:18:50 AM

Although the statement that not all non-Catholics are going to hell is still pretty cool because it could change a lot of attitudes.

This is a cautiously optimistic thing.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Telarus on May 26, 2013, 06:39:23 AM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 26, 2013, 05:18:50 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on May 26, 2013, 12:41:19 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on May 25, 2013, 07:51:58 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 25, 2013, 07:38:51 PM
He'll say whatever he has to.

He doesn't have to say it though.  That's why I like him for saying it.  he's the pope, he can say whatever he likes and he certainly doesn't have to say soemthing that is contradictory to traditional Catholic dogma.

All of his charismatic posturing as being humble and poor, to me, are just bullshit PR work.

As long as the institution keeps working as it has been lately, he's just providing a pretty mask for a monster.

I don't like monsters.

Yes.

Although the statement that not all non-Catholics are going to hell is still pretty cool because it could change a lot of attitudes.

Which is why it was immediately contradicted by "a Vatican spokesman"....
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/05/24/vatican-representative-just-to-be-clear-atheists-are-still-going-to-hell/
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 26, 2013, 08:32:44 AM
Thank fuck we don't believe in hell, then, otherwise that would be pretty shitty for us  :lulz:
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: The Johnny on May 26, 2013, 08:36:56 AM
Quote from: Telarus on May 26, 2013, 06:39:23 AM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 26, 2013, 05:18:50 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on May 26, 2013, 12:41:19 AM
Quote from: Pergamos on May 25, 2013, 07:51:58 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on May 25, 2013, 07:38:51 PM
He'll say whatever he has to.

He doesn't have to say it though.  That's why I like him for saying it.  he's the pope, he can say whatever he likes and he certainly doesn't have to say soemthing that is contradictory to traditional Catholic dogma.

All of his charismatic posturing as being humble and poor, to me, are just bullshit PR work.

As long as the institution keeps working as it has been lately, he's just providing a pretty mask for a monster.

I don't like monsters.

Yes.

Although the statement that not all non-Catholics are going to hell is still pretty cool because it could change a lot of attitudes.

Which is why it was immediately contradicted by "a Vatican spokesman"....
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/05/24/vatican-representative-just-to-be-clear-atheists-are-still-going-to-hell/

:whack:  :whack: :whack: :whack: :whack: :whack: :whack: :whack: :whack:

Anyhow, if he's anything more than a living failure publicist's puppet he will either have to get some things happening or resign; being the leader or prominent figure of its institution obviously means that he trusts the vision and practice of the institution, so either he tolerates the status-quo, or he fights the abhorrent status-quo.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: The Johnny on May 26, 2013, 08:40:00 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 26, 2013, 08:32:44 AM
Thank fuck we don't believe in hell, then, otherwise that would be pretty shitty for us  :lulz:

"But we're a religion of love and compassion, UNLIKE ISLAM"

Seriously, any of us in a different time, we'd be lined up to be torched at the stake.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Left on May 26, 2013, 08:50:04 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on May 26, 2013, 08:40:00 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 26, 2013, 08:32:44 AM
Thank fuck we don't believe in hell, then, otherwise that would be pretty shitty for us  :lulz:

"But we're a religion of love and compassion, UNLIKE ISLAM"

Seriously, any of us in a different time, we'd be lined up to be torched at the stake.
Considering my neighbors, that's still an outside possibility for me.

From my outsider position, I view all deities as somewhat true.
I view all the Abrahamic religions as noxious branches of the same fucked-up faith.

...I think Jehovah is a lying asshole, which explains a lot of his followers.

As above, so below.

Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: GrannySmith on May 26, 2013, 09:09:51 AM
Quote from: El Twid on May 25, 2013, 08:03:48 PM
Quote from: GrannySmith on May 25, 2013, 02:47:17 PM
I say PFffffFFT. "Doing good" is all that matters, YEAH RIGHT. Blaaablabalaablaaabalaaa  :argh!: :argh!: Fucking pedofile protecting, human-nature-hating, wealth-hoarding, nazi loving sons of bitches catholic priests and popes!!!!!!!!  :argh!: :argh!: :argh!:
But is Francis guilty of these things? Like did he ever shield a pedophile?
Of course i have no idea what francis did or did not do as a person, that's still to be revealed :p i see him just as a representative of a large religion which, for reasons including the aforementioned, annoys me, therefore the 'angry' faces ;) From Telarus' link i guess his statement was just a gaffe  :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on May 26, 2013, 06:24:58 AM
*regrets having used the one-pun-a-day allowance*
what's wrong with puns? :)
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 26, 2013, 04:50:00 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 26, 2013, 08:32:44 AM
Thank fuck we don't believe in hell, then, otherwise that would be pretty shitty for us  :lulz:

Speak for yourself!  :argh!:
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Left on May 26, 2013, 10:58:37 PM
Quote from: GrannySmith on May 26, 2013, 09:09:51 AM
Quote from: El Twid on May 25, 2013, 08:03:48 PM
Quote from: GrannySmith on May 25, 2013, 02:47:17 PM
I say PFffffFFT. "Doing good" is all that matters, YEAH RIGHT. Blaaablabalaablaaabalaaa  :argh!: :argh!: Fucking pedofile protecting, human-nature-hating, wealth-hoarding, nazi loving sons of bitches catholic priests and popes!!!!!!!!  :argh!: :argh!: :argh!:
But is Francis guilty of these things? Like did he ever shield a pedophile?
Of course i have no idea what francis did or did not do as a person, that's still to be revealed :p i see him just as a representative of a large religion which, for reasons including the aforementioned, annoys me, therefore the 'angry' faces ;) From Telarus' link i guess his statement was just a gaffe  :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on May 26, 2013, 06:24:58 AM
*regrets having used the one-pun-a-day allowance*
what's wrong with puns? :)

Ok, you ASKED for it-And yes, I read it somewhere else...

"Abstinence makes the church grow fondlers."
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Faust on May 26, 2013, 11:36:57 PM
He could do a lot of good and bankrupt them, and insists they return to poverty, but I very much doubt the Mafioso crowd in the Vatican will allow him to get very far with that.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 28, 2013, 11:34:01 AM
Quote from: Faust on May 26, 2013, 11:36:57 PM
He could do a lot of good and bankrupt them, and insists they return to poverty, but I very much doubt the Mafioso crowd in the Vatican will allow him to get very far with that.

It's any company's responsibility to their shareholders to sack the CEO if and when profits enter freefall.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Faust on May 28, 2013, 11:35:56 AM
It's such a shame, he is (war crimes included) the best pope they have had in... I don't know... centuries?
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 28, 2013, 11:37:18 AM
That's kind of like saying Jimmy Saville is the best paedophile we've had in years.   :kingmeh:
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Faust on May 28, 2013, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 28, 2013, 11:37:18 AM
That's kind of like saying Jimmy Saville is the best paedophile we've had in years.   :kingmeh:

yes, but considering this guy is probably surrounded by actual paedophiles and is giving their money away frivolously I'm finding it hard not to like him.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: The Johnny on May 28, 2013, 09:28:36 PM
Quote from: Faust on May 28, 2013, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 28, 2013, 11:37:18 AM
That's kind of like saying Jimmy Saville is the best paedophile we've had in years.   :kingmeh:

yes, but considering this guy is probably surrounded by actual paedophiles and is giving their money away frivolously I'm finding it hard not to like him.

money to what and whom???
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Faust on May 28, 2013, 11:43:21 PM
Quote from: The Johnny on May 28, 2013, 09:28:36 PM
Quote from: Faust on May 28, 2013, 12:29:26 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 28, 2013, 11:37:18 AM
That's kind of like saying Jimmy Saville is the best paedophile we've had in years.   :kingmeh:

yes, but considering this guy is probably surrounded by actual paedophiles and is giving their money away frivolously I'm finding it hard not to like him.

money to what and whom???
He turned the papal bedroom into a library, has donated any of the jewellery he found to the Vatican museum and has ordered the same for a load of paintings.

He's ordered a huge increase in spending on missionaries in third world countries (which may mean he is funding regimes in third world countries). It will be interesting to see how much they allow him to do with their funds, if he gets too generous I don't see him being pope for long.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 28, 2013, 11:44:13 PM
Quote from: Faust on May 28, 2013, 11:43:21 PM
He turned the papal bedroom into a library, has donated any of the jewellery he found to the Vatican museum and has ordered the same for a load of paintings.

Poverty solved!
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Faust on May 28, 2013, 11:48:32 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 28, 2013, 11:44:13 PM
Quote from: Faust on May 28, 2013, 11:43:21 PM
He turned the papal bedroom into a library, has donated any of the jewellery he found to the Vatican museum and has ordered the same for a load of paintings.

Poverty solved!
It amounts to nothing more then kicking gold off the mountain of treasure, but if he is serious about a "return to poverty" for the church he is talking about breaking the back on one of the most evil, entrenched organisations that has ever existed.

Like I said, he'll be bumped off if he gets to big for his boots.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 28, 2013, 11:53:49 PM
Quote from: Faust on May 28, 2013, 11:48:32 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 28, 2013, 11:44:13 PM
Quote from: Faust on May 28, 2013, 11:43:21 PM
He turned the papal bedroom into a library, has donated any of the jewellery he found to the Vatican museum and has ordered the same for a load of paintings.

Poverty solved!
It amounts to nothing more then kicking gold off the mountain of treasure, but if he is serious about a "return to poverty" for the church he is talking about breaking the back on one of the most evil, entrenched organisations that has ever existed.

Like I said, he'll be bumped off if he gets to big for his boots.

How long did John Paul I last?

:lulz:
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Faust on May 29, 2013, 12:03:06 AM
[googles] ...33 days This guy's a south american, I give him six months.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: The Johnny on May 29, 2013, 12:06:40 AM

I say he stays in his position until he dies. Doing symbolical charity bullshit, but nothing of real significance.

Remember kids! Nowadays the symbol and the gesture are more important than doing what actually works in what actually matters.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 29, 2013, 12:54:33 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on May 29, 2013, 12:06:40 AM

I say he stays in his position until he dies. Doing symbolical charity bullshit, but nothing of real significance.

Remember kids! Nowadays the symbol and the gesture are more important than doing what actually works in what actually matters.

Well, I'm not gonna say that, but I will say that historical precedent is on your side.

Added to the fact that the jewelry and paintings, etc, went to the Vatican museum, which is sort of like Bill Gates donating to the Needy CEO Fund.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Suu on May 29, 2013, 02:17:54 AM
Speaking as a recovering Catholic: He's a Jesuit, and doing what Jesuits do. He also took the name Francis, which, for anyone who studies ecclesiastical history for fun and prophet such as myself, eyebrows raised.

I still have no faith in this man, despite being brought up in a Franciscan parish, as opposed to the more common Vatican Stormtrooper parishes, aka, the Dominicans. Why?

Because the Catholic Church is irrelevant. He's trying to fix a crumbling infrastructure on an ancient foundation. He's still the head of a multibillion dollar corporation and will talk out of his ass to save it. Catholics are turning their backs on their church left and right, and it's not the first time this has happened. First it was Latin versus Greek, then divorce, then it was simony, nepotism, indulgences...now it's birth control and women's rights. Benedict tried to fix this with the "Catholics Come Home" campaign a couple years ago, and all that did was activate the Guilt. Francis wants to make himself look like a decent person, but he's already put his foot in his mouth where the issues of today stand. No saying, "Atheists can be good people too!" is going to fix anything.

Baby steps? Maybe, but I don't buy it. Catholicism sold it's spirituality to the Devil in the 14th Century with the forced resignation of Celestine to make way for Douchebag the First, I mean, Boniface VIII. Who, if you are familiar with your literature, Dante placed in the inner most circle of Hell for a reason.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Faust on May 29, 2013, 09:12:09 AM
Quote from: The Johnny on May 29, 2013, 12:06:40 AM

I say he stays in his position until he dies. Doing symbolical charity bullshit, but nothing of real significance.

Remember kids! Nowadays the symbol and the gesture are more important than doing what actually works in what actually matters.

Uh, ok. I don't have any personal investment in this so I'm going to say I don't know what he is going to do but his first few weeks have been interesting.
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Doktor Howl on May 29, 2013, 06:53:33 PM
Getcher Catholic Church here!  Get it while it's hot!

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/29/18587238-teacher-fired-by-catholic-school-after-artificial-insemination?lite
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: The Johnny on May 30, 2013, 12:12:01 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 29, 2013, 06:53:33 PM
Getcher Catholic Church here!  Get it while it's hot!

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/29/18587238-teacher-fired-by-catholic-school-after-artificial-insemination?lite

But that's just one rotten apple out of the entire grove! Are you implying from just one case that all Catholics and the Institution are orthodox hate-mongers?

etc. etc. etc
Title: Re: Pope says doing good is what matters, not what you believe
Post by: Faust on July 29, 2013, 07:31:11 PM
In one sitting he said it is not for society to judge homosexuals and that if the Vatican bank doesn't reform it will be shut down

this of course wont happen but he has lasted longer then John paul the first.