http://www.bakersfieldcalifornian.com/local/x1891154115/Sheriff-requests-FBI-inquiry-into-in-custody-death
QuoteThe controversy, which has since captured the attention of readers across the country and around the world, began in the waning minutes of May 7 when a sheriff's deputy with a canine tried to take Silva into custody after law enforcement received a report of a possibly intoxicated man outside Kern Medical Center.
Moments later, more deputies and two California Highway Patrol officers arrived. Baton strikes and the dog were used to subdue Silva, who later died at KMC.
But witnesses have said Silva was lying prone on the ground and begging for his life when officers were striking him.
The incident and the way sheriff's deputies treated witnesses who took video of the incident have made national news. The witnesses have described being detained in their homes for hours as search warrants were being requested and obtained.
...When the phones were returned, one of the two videos was deleted, apparently the one that showed the best view.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130515/18051923103/footage-lethal-beating-deleted-seized-phone-sheriff-asks-fbi-to-take-over-investigation.shtml
QuoteThe surprising part is that Youngblood decided to call in the FBI to head up a parallel investigation into the death of David Silva. Even better, he had the phones flown out to the FBI's Sacramento office for analysis.
Honestly, considering that this has gone viral, I doubt he could get away with going along with the okey-doke. Not and keep his job. So I guess he's chosen to chuck his underlings under the bus, and I hope the FBI chooses to ream them.
...This reminds me of something, though:
http://gawker.com/5825010/police-beat-gentle-homeless-mentally-ill-man-to-death
"This video, shot on July 5 by a student in Fullerton, California, ostensibly features the sounds of 37-year-old Kelly Thomas crying for his father while being Tased by police officers after he supposedly resisted arrest. Thomas was also beaten so badly that he was placed on life support. He died several days later."
Reminds me of what the Portland Police did to James Chasse:
http://www.alienboy.org/
Nothing happened to those police officers and they're all back on active duty.
Quote from: Net on May 26, 2013, 02:19:32 AM
Reminds me of what the Portland Police did to James Chasse:
http://www.alienboy.org/
Nothing happened to those police officers and they're all back on active duty.
:sad: :argh!:
I managed to rustle up this one, despite not being sure what year it happened...
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Gun-mechanics-may-be-issue-in-ex-cop-s-murder-1924943.php
QuoteEscobar began to leave and ignored the officers' orders to stop, police and witnesses said.
The fatal scuffle erupted when the patrolmen grabbed Escobar, who fell down and then kicked them, police said.
After Escobar kicked Carbonneau in the groin, the officer drew his pistol, police said. The teen then kicked Carbonneau's arm and the gun fired, they said.
http://shron.wordpress.com/2007/10/15/hpd-officer-who-shot-boy-failed-firearms-test/
QuoteCarbonneau admitted he then deliberately drew his gun and pointed it at Escobar, who was unarmed, but later claimed the gun went off accidentally. He was allowed to resign.
In 2005, he was found guilty of criminally negligent homicide and sentenced to 60 days in jail and five years' probation.
And I am really grateful that I live in a country where the only times police get to have guns are the armed defenders squad and perhaps some of the state highway patrol. I remember the time when they were trialling tasers http://www.police.govt.nz/resources/2006/taser-trial/ and now they've upgraded the trial to double shot tasers http://www.3news.co.nz/Police-trial-new-tasers/tabid/423/articleID/296040/Default.aspx
Quote from: Stryfe Konstantion on May 26, 2013, 04:34:42 AM
And I am really grateful that I live in a country where the only times police get to have guns are the armed defenders squad and perhaps some of the state highway patrol. I remember the time when they were trialling tasers http://www.police.govt.nz/resources/2006/taser-trial/ and now they've upgraded the trial to double shot tasers http://www.3news.co.nz/Police-trial-new-tasers/tabid/423/articleID/296040/Default.aspx
The police here seem to forget that the tasers are defined as "less-lethal" weapons, not "non-lethal" ones.
They allow the police to USUALLY not kill someone in a situation where lethal force is called for.
Which makes the use of such a device on detainees who'd already been arrested questionable to yours truly.
http://savannahnow.com/stories/041804/LOC_taserstory.shtml
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=8016495
http://www.news-journal.com/news/police/stun-gun-involved-in-gregg-county-jail-inmate-death/article_b313bf1a-918d-5e1d-b237-3eb3a0a0d5ae.html
Quote from: Stryfe Konstantion on May 26, 2013, 04:34:42 AM
And I am really grateful that I live in a country where the only times police get to have guns are the armed defenders squad and perhaps some of the state highway patrol. I remember the time when they were trialling tasers http://www.police.govt.nz/resources/2006/taser-trial/ and now they've upgraded the trial to double shot tasers http://www.3news.co.nz/Police-trial-new-tasers/tabid/423/articleID/296040/Default.aspx
This! The only reason I'd ever feel like I actually needed to have a gun in the house for my own safety is if they armed the filth.
I've only seen and used a gun once in my life, it felt weird and ugly and horrific in my hands. I can't imagine living in a place where it is that easy to get hold of such things in large quantities. Tasers are bad enough but guns are just *insert sound that describes the feeling of horror convulsions, nausea and immense disgust*
If you were surrounded by Americans, you'd want guns too.
Quote from: Balls Wellington on May 26, 2013, 10:19:29 AM
If you were surrounded by Americans, you'd want guns too.
:potd:
I mean it's funny, but I'm totally serious. Guns are cool. I enjoy shooting cans and watermelons and things with them. But I don't enjoy feeling like I NEED to have one in my home because of the constant stream of unpredictable dipshits around me, and their ridiculous culture of glorified violence.
The little rock that I call home is, statistically speaking, one of the most dangerous places in the world. I've NEVER felt like I need to own a gun there (which is good since it's illegal and carries a mandatory 5 year minimum sentence, but that's another topic). But I'll be goddamned if I'm gonna drive across America on the interstate highway system without being strapped. Or go camping in the woods (it's not the bears you have to worry about). Or meet up with someone to buy something off of Craigslist. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Quote from: stelz on May 26, 2013, 04:49:56 PM
Quote from: Balls Wellington on May 26, 2013, 10:19:29 AM
If you were surrounded by Americans, you'd want guns too.
:potd:
I think this holds especially true if you live in Texas.
Truth is often morbidly funny.
Quote from: Stryfe Konstantion on May 26, 2013, 09:48:38 AM
I've only seen and used a gun once in my life, it felt weird and ugly and horrific in my hands. I can't imagine living in a place where it is that easy to get hold of such things in large quantities. Tasers are bad enough but guns are just *insert sound that describes the feeling of horror convulsions, nausea and immense disgust*
I don't generally pack heat, because I spend a lot of time in the car driving somewhere. I have a
car, I am therefore
driving the weapon.
...But I am a guard.
I am certified to carry a pistol, shotgun, and a tactical baton, should I be paid to do so on behalf of a client of my company.
...Only did it once, at a jewelry store, filling in.
...I never realized how annoying wearing a pistol on your hip can be when you go take a leak.
...No I did NOT drop my pistol in the toilet. :roll:
...Now, topic thingee:
I REALLY wonder why, on the occasion a police officer gets sent to trial, he or she is exceedingly likely to get a slap on the wrist sentence for killing someone.
...Why are they held to be
better than other people in the eyes of the jury, you know?
I've thought for a while now it's a sort of trauma bonding/stockholm syndrome sort of thing.
It's too terrifying to realize the people we authorize to use lethal force are at least as fucked up, or more fucked up, than the rest of us.
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on May 27, 2013, 03:20:13 AM
I REALLY wonder why, on the occasion a police officer gets sent to trial, he or she is exceedingly likely to get a slap on the wrist sentence for killing someone.
...Why are they held to be better than other people in the eyes of the jury, you know?
I've thought for a while now it's a sort of trauma bonding/stockholm syndrome sort of thing.
It's too terrifying to realize the people we authorize to use lethal force are at least as fucked up, or more fucked up, than the rest of us.
Filth are legally "more important" than humans. If you fuck with one, you get a much stiffer penalty than you would if you did it to an actual person who didn't deserve it.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 30, 2013, 11:18:55 AM
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on May 27, 2013, 03:20:13 AM
I REALLY wonder why, on the occasion a police officer gets sent to trial, he or she is exceedingly likely to get a slap on the wrist sentence for killing someone.
...Why are they held to be better than other people in the eyes of the jury, you know?
I've thought for a while now it's a sort of trauma bonding/stockholm syndrome sort of thing.
It's too terrifying to realize the people we authorize to use lethal force are at least as fucked up, or more fucked up, than the rest of us.
Filth are legally "more important" than humans. If you fuck with one, you get a much stiffer penalty than you would if you did it to an actual person who didn't deserve it.
1. That's because police are the face of the state. Of course the state won't tolerate that.
2. I know a few cops that are actual people and don't deserve it. Not many, granted, but that's one hell of a broad brush you have there.
I'm not so sure that the FBI are the best people to run an inquiry, considering.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/05/why-did-the-fbi-kill-an-unarmed-man-and-clam-up/276369/
Quote from: Stryfe Konstantion on May 26, 2013, 09:48:38 AM
I've only seen and used a gun once in my life, it felt weird and ugly and horrific in my hands. I can't imagine living in a place where it is that easy to get hold of such things in large quantities. Tasers are bad enough but guns are just *insert sound that describes the feeling of horror convulsions, nausea and immense disgust*
Guns can be fun. My Dad taught me and my siblings how to shoot a BB Gun when we were younger (incidentally, my parents are probably more anti- than pro- gun). And a few years back, I got to shoot a shotgun out at a wedding in Utah. It was fun, and I would like to learn how to shoot better, mainly for recreational purposes. But then, pretty much everything ECH said. I don't own a gun, maybe I'd like to someday, but it's the culture that's horrible. People that obsessed with guns and violence probably shouldn't have guns.
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on May 27, 2013, 03:20:13 AM
...Now, topic thingee:
I REALLY wonder why, on the occasion a police officer gets sent to trial, he or she is exceedingly likely to get a slap on the wrist sentence for killing someone.
...Why are they held to be better than other people in the eyes of the jury, you know?
Ehh, essentially what Pent said. My uncle was hit and killed by and officer in Tucson several years back, who was running late for breakfast. From what I know, the cop was suspended, with pay, and that's as far as it went. He wasn't in a crosswalk, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't use that as an excuse for running down someone crossing the street too slowly. I'm not saying the officer did it on purpose, or that the experience wasn't awful for him, since I'm sure most people would rather not have the experience of killing someone, I just can't help but be a bit cynical as to that fact that I'm sure I would have at least had to pay a hefty lawyer's fee to keep me out of jail in that scenario.
And I know not all officers are terrible people. I have met some very nice ones. I try to judge everyone (police and otherwise) on a case by case basis
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 30, 2013, 06:07:30 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 30, 2013, 11:18:55 AM
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on May 27, 2013, 03:20:13 AM
I REALLY wonder why, on the occasion a police officer gets sent to trial, he or she is exceedingly likely to get a slap on the wrist sentence for killing someone.
...Why are they held to be better than other people in the eyes of the jury, you know?
I've thought for a while now it's a sort of trauma bonding/stockholm syndrome sort of thing.
It's too terrifying to realize the people we authorize to use lethal force are at least as fucked up, or more fucked up, than the rest of us.
Filth are legally "more important" than humans. If you fuck with one, you get a much stiffer penalty than you would if you did it to an actual person who didn't deserve it.
1. That's because police are the face of the state. Of course the state won't tolerate that.
2. I know a few cops that are actual people and don't deserve it. Not many, granted, but that's one hell of a broad brush you have there.
I've got mates that are serving members, too. Stand up guys. Any broad brush is the impression given by a legal system which makes a point of illustrating that they are not us.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 30, 2013, 06:15:00 PM
I'm not so sure that the FBI are the best people to run an inquiry, considering.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/05/why-did-the-fbi-kill-an-unarmed-man-and-clam-up/276369/
:x Lovely.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 30, 2013, 10:46:06 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 30, 2013, 06:07:30 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 30, 2013, 11:18:55 AM
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on May 27, 2013, 03:20:13 AM
I REALLY wonder why, on the occasion a police officer gets sent to trial, he or she is exceedingly likely to get a slap on the wrist sentence for killing someone.
...Why are they held to be better than other people in the eyes of the jury, you know?
I've thought for a while now it's a sort of trauma bonding/stockholm syndrome sort of thing.
It's too terrifying to realize the people we authorize to use lethal force are at least as fucked up, or more fucked up, than the rest of us.
Filth are legally "more important" than humans. If you fuck with one, you get a much stiffer penalty than you would if you did it to an actual person who didn't deserve it.
1. That's because police are the face of the state. Of course the state won't tolerate that.
2. I know a few cops that are actual people and don't deserve it. Not many, granted, but that's one hell of a broad brush you have there.
I've got mates that are serving members, too. Stand up guys. Any broad brush is the impression given by a legal system which makes a point of illustrating that they are not us.
I've met cops who are decent human beings, I've met cops who are assholes.
Two memorable incidents involved male cops who were short of stature.
The ones around here know who I am in a good way-as in, they know I'm not involved in anything illegal and I don't drive drunk or high.
I know two good cops. And I know there are more than two.
I also know that if I meet one on the street, that's not how I bet. And I put on my best nice-mom-lady face, and thank my lucky stars I'm not a black man.
I will tell you, one of the best things that's ever happened to me is the influx and normalization of Mexican immigrants here, because I used to stand out as a colored person, and now I look like half the moms in my neighborhood.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 31, 2013, 07:49:42 AM
I know two good cops. And I know there are more than two.
None of the cops I know that I'd hang around with are patrolmen.
Just an observation.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 31, 2013, 03:26:30 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 31, 2013, 07:49:42 AM
I know two good cops. And I know there are more than two.
None of the cops I know that I'd hang around with are patrolmen.
Just an observation.
Yeah, neither are the two I know, come to think of it.
That seems... unfortunate.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 31, 2013, 03:35:48 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 31, 2013, 03:26:30 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on May 31, 2013, 07:49:42 AM
I know two good cops. And I know there are more than two.
None of the cops I know that I'd hang around with are patrolmen.
Just an observation.
Yeah, neither are the two I know, come to think of it.
That seems... unfortunate.
Well, I understand why patrolmen tend to go mean. Believe me, I understand that.
All the other police just go nuts. It's an inherently insane job.
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on May 30, 2013, 06:17:32 PM
My uncle was hit and killed by and officer in Tucson several years back, who was running late for breakfast. From what I know, the cop was suspended, with pay, and that's as far as it went. He wasn't in a crosswalk, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't use that as an excuse for running down someone crossing the street too slowly.
Unless a law was broken, that's an accident, not a crime. Civil, not criminal...No matter who does it. We regularly have cyclists mashed, and the driver of the motor vehicle is cited (if applicable) and then released.
It's Tucson, Jake.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 31, 2013, 04:38:37 PM
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on May 30, 2013, 06:17:32 PM
My uncle was hit and killed by and officer in Tucson several years back, who was running late for breakfast. From what I know, the cop was suspended, with pay, and that's as far as it went. He wasn't in a crosswalk, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't use that as an excuse for running down someone crossing the street too slowly.
Unless a law was broken, that's an accident, not a crime. Civil, not criminal...No matter who does it. We regularly have cyclists mashed, and the driver of the motor vehicle is cited (if applicable) and then released.
It's Tucson, Jake.
Yes, that's true and fairly obvious if I'd stopped to think about since terrible accidents happen and sometimes it's no-one's fault and sometimes it's the person who was killed that was at fault. I was in a bit of a Debbie Downer mood yesterday and my mom had mentioned it again recently so some of her bitterness rubbed off on me. Obviously it can be harder to be more objective when you know the person, though that still doesn't change things. Speed may have been a factor, but that's still a civil infraction. I'm not holding a grudge over it, but was venting my bad mood on it.
I'd like to praise the below LAPD officers for not killing anyone:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/31/4383220/robert-bowlings-robotoki-invaded-by-lapd-after-curious-designer
Quote from: Telarus on June 01, 2013, 05:39:27 AM
I'd like to praise the below LAPD officers for not killing anyone:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/31/4383220/robert-bowlings-robotoki-invaded-by-lapd-after-curious-designer
No
shit.Though I'd not heard of this:
QuoteEarlier today reports circulated that the studio had been the victim of a "swatting" prank, in which a third party tricks law enforcement authorities or emergency services by providing details of a made-up threat, triggering an emergency response dispatch to the target of the prank.
That is beyond not cool, it could get someone killed.
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on June 01, 2013, 06:45:20 AM
Quote from: Telarus on June 01, 2013, 05:39:27 AM
I'd like to praise the below LAPD officers for not killing anyone:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/31/4383220/robert-bowlings-robotoki-invaded-by-lapd-after-curious-designer
No shit.
Though I'd not heard of this:
QuoteEarlier today reports circulated that the studio had been the victim of a "swatting" prank, in which a third party tricks law enforcement authorities or emergency services by providing details of a made-up threat, triggering an emergency response dispatch to the target of the prank.
That is beyond not cool, it could get someone killed.
It's the current fad in telephone pranking. Kids call in with spoofed phone number, saying that gunmen have invaded the house, shot one person, and taken others hostage. SWAT team shows up with lots of automatic weapons pointed at the front door to find a very surprised person. Hilarity ensues. For bonus points, use a telephone service intended to help deaf-mutes place calls - you send in text, and a government employee reads the text. As a disability service intended to enable basic communication, they are legally forbidden from inserting any of their own judgements, recording the call, or preserving where the text was coming from.
Quote from: Telarus on June 01, 2013, 05:39:27 AM
I'd like to praise the below LAPD officers for not killing anyone:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/31/4383220/robert-bowlings-robotoki-invaded-by-lapd-after-curious-designer
Duuuude, why would anyone install a panic button and NOT TELL EVERYONE what it was?
A. They can't hit it in an emergency if they don't know it's there.
B. EVERYONE pushes an unlabeled button, to see what it does. EVERYONE.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on June 01, 2013, 06:04:24 PM
Quote from: Telarus on June 01, 2013, 05:39:27 AM
I'd like to praise the below LAPD officers for not killing anyone:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/31/4383220/robert-bowlings-robotoki-invaded-by-lapd-after-curious-designer
Duuuude, why would anyone install a panic button and NOT TELL EVERYONE what it was?
A. They can't hit it in an emergency if they don't know it's there.
B. EVERYONE pushes an unlabeled button, to see what it does. EVERYONE.
Unscrupulous marketing strategy? I can't tell anymore.
Quote from: The Johnny on June 01, 2013, 06:11:34 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on June 01, 2013, 06:04:24 PM
Quote from: Telarus on June 01, 2013, 05:39:27 AM
I'd like to praise the below LAPD officers for not killing anyone:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/31/4383220/robert-bowlings-robotoki-invaded-by-lapd-after-curious-designer
Duuuude, why would anyone install a panic button and NOT TELL EVERYONE what it was?
A. They can't hit it in an emergency if they don't know it's there.
B. EVERYONE pushes an unlabeled button, to see what it does. EVERYONE.
Unscrupulous marketing strategy? I can't tell anymore.
Hmmmm, could be!
Quote from: Golden Applesauce on June 01, 2013, 04:59:23 PM
It's the current fad in telephone pranking. Kids call in with spoofed phone number, saying that gunmen have invaded the house, shot one person, and taken others hostage.
One of my brother's friends...could have got my mom shot.
...But when he called the cops and told them "They're shooting at me!!!" he was in the middle of cocaine-induced psychosis...
She answered the door when they came and did so a bit too rapidly.
Don't do things rapidly around armed, scared people.
J has found his place in life now... he's the cellblock tattooist.
Since I knew his parents when he lived across the street,
it's probably the most stability he's had in his entire life. :sad:
Shit, that's depressing, sorry, not feeling good today.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/30/tremaine-mcmillian-14-year-old-miami-dade-police_n_3362340.html
QuoteMcMillian's family told news outlets they were enjoying the beach when the officers took exception to the way the teen had been roughhousing with a friend in the surf. McMillian says the officers drove up on an ATV and confronted him before leaping off and choking him. Reports WSVN:
"That's when the police had told us to stop, so I asked, why, and he told me, because he said so, and I asked why again. That's when he told me, 'Show me where your mom's at.'"
McMillian said he was cradling his puppy Marco when it all went down. He said he was obeying officers and only wanted to lead them to his mom. His mother said, "As he was walking along the beach, the catwalk where the picnic area is, the police officers were on their ATVs, and my son was walking, and they jumped off their ATVs, grabbed him and slammed him to the ground."
QuoteMcMillian was charged with a felony count of resisting arrest with violence and disorderly conduct, according to Miami New Times. His case is reportedly scheduled for trial in July.
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on June 05, 2013, 10:40:41 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/30/tremaine-mcmillian-14-year-old-miami-dade-police_n_3362340.html
QuoteMcMillian's family told news outlets they were enjoying the beach when the officers took exception to the way the teen had been roughhousing with a friend in the surf. McMillian says the officers drove up on an ATV and confronted him before leaping off and choking him. Reports WSVN:
"That's when the police had told us to stop, so I asked, why, and he told me, because he said so, and I asked why again. That's when he told me, 'Show me where your mom's at.'"
McMillian said he was cradling his puppy Marco when it all went down. He said he was obeying officers and only wanted to lead them to his mom. His mother said, "As he was walking along the beach, the catwalk where the picnic area is, the police officers were on their ATVs, and my son was walking, and they jumped off their ATVs, grabbed him and slammed him to the ground."
QuoteMcMillian was charged with a felony count of resisting arrest with violence and disorderly conduct, according to Miami New Times. His case is reportedly scheduled for trial in July.
Miami, so I'm assuming McMillan is Black.
Doktor Howl wins the prize. Yep, Black kid walking. He's lucky they didn't just shoot him.
Best line:
"All of that body language alone is already letting the officers know that this is a person that now is obviously getting agitated and can become violent," said Miami-Dade Police Detective Alvaro Zabaleta."
Because nothing says "threatening hoodlum" like "14 year old with puppy".
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 05, 2013, 11:31:34 PM
Doktor Howl wins the prize. Yep, Black kid walking. He's lucky they didn't just shoot him.
Best line:
"All of that body language alone is already letting the officers know that this is a person that now is obviously getting agitated and can become violent," said Miami-Dade Police Detective Alvaro Zabaleta."
Because nothing says "threatening hoodlum" like "14 year old with puppy".
Yeah, one of those scary 14 year olds who look like they're 10. ERHMAHGERD!
When confronted by the authorities, you should immediately prostrate yourself, and start crying. Peeing your pants could be helpful as well.
Anything less would just be confrontational.
Quote from: Freeky Queen of DERP on June 05, 2013, 11:33:07 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 05, 2013, 11:31:34 PM
Doktor Howl wins the prize. Yep, Black kid walking. He's lucky they didn't just shoot him.
Best line:
"All of that body language alone is already letting the officers know that this is a person that now is obviously getting agitated and can become violent," said Miami-Dade Police Detective Alvaro Zabaleta."
Because nothing says "threatening hoodlum" like "14 year old with puppy".
Yeah, one of those scary 14 year olds who look like they're 10. ERHMAHGERD!
No, This will be one of those 14 year olds that appear to be mid 40's and 6-12 inches taller than they actually are.
Quote from: Emo Howard on June 06, 2013, 10:01:35 AM
When confronted by the authorities, you should immediately prostrate yourself, and start crying. Peeing your pants could be helpful as well.
Anything less would just be confrontational.
Wrong. When confronted by the authorities you should immediately apologise politely for whatever it was that got their panties in a knot. And assure them it won't happen again.
Any other course of action will almost certainly result in a fight with the filth and/or prosecution. If you really feel hard done by, you can always smash the windows on their squad car after the event.
As with any tactical scenario, aggression or defiance should only be considered if your forces are more powerful. ie. Greater numbers or better armed. I learned this lesson when I was about the kid's age and (other than the odd night in the drunk tank) I've never been in any trouble with the filth.
You're all missing the point. Go back and read the article again.
The kid was put in a choke hold and arrested on felony charges for, LITERALLY, looking at them funny.
:lulz:
AMEEEEERICA, AMEEEEEERICA!
\
:mullet:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 05, 2013, 11:31:34 PM
Doktor Howl wins the prize. Yep, Black kid walking. He's lucky they didn't just shoot him.
Best line:
"All of that body language alone is already letting the officers know that this is a person that now is obviously getting agitated and can become violent," said Miami-Dade Police Detective Alvaro Zabaleta."
Because nothing says "threatening hoodlum" like "14 year old with puppy".
Does it ever occur to these cops that they're undermining their macho when they act like pussies?
Quote from: stelz on June 06, 2013, 03:12:46 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 05, 2013, 11:31:34 PM
Doktor Howl wins the prize. Yep, Black kid walking. He's lucky they didn't just shoot him.
Best line:
"All of that body language alone is already letting the officers know that this is a person that now is obviously getting agitated and can become violent," said Miami-Dade Police Detective Alvaro Zabaleta."
Because nothing says "threatening hoodlum" like "14 year old with puppy".
Does it ever occur to these cops that they're undermining their macho when they act like pussies?
No. Given my experience with "uniforms", they aren't that introspective. Where their brains belong, there is only a big ball of testosterone and petty authority.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 06, 2013, 03:05:30 PM
You're all missing the point. Go back and read the article again.
The kid was put in a choke hold and arrested on felony charges for, LITERALLY, looking at them funny.
:lulz:
AMEEEEERICA, AMEEEEEERICA!
\
:mullet:
Looking at them funny and asking "why?" twice. What the fuck did the kid expect, cos I could have stopped reading at that point and accurately predicted the outcome?
Yeah, it's wrong on some bullshit philosophical level but them's the rules of the game as it stands. Aint set to change any time soon so you either play by the rules, learn how to not get caught cheating or face a world of pain.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 06, 2013, 03:05:30 PM
You're all missing the point. Go back and read the article again.
The kid was put in a choke hold and arrested on felony charges for, LITERALLY, looking at them funny.
:lulz:
AMEEEEERICA, AMEEEEEERICA!
\
:mullet:
LAND OF THE FREEEEEEEEEE
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 06, 2013, 03:49:46 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 06, 2013, 03:05:30 PM
You're all missing the point. Go back and read the article again.
The kid was put in a choke hold and arrested on felony charges for, LITERALLY, looking at them funny.
:lulz:
AMEEEEERICA, AMEEEEEERICA!
\
:mullet:
Looking at them funny and asking "why?" twice. What the fuck did the kid expect, cos I could have stopped reading at that point and accurately predicted the outcome?
Yeah, it's wrong on some bullshit philosophical level but them's the rules of the game as it stands. Aint set to change any time soon so you either play by the rules, learn how to not get caught cheating or face a world of pain.
Yeah, some bullshit philosophical level.
Or basic rights.
Whatever.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on June 06, 2013, 04:01:46 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 06, 2013, 03:49:46 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 06, 2013, 03:05:30 PM
You're all missing the point. Go back and read the article again.
The kid was put in a choke hold and arrested on felony charges for, LITERALLY, looking at them funny.
:lulz:
AMEEEEERICA, AMEEEEEERICA!
\
:mullet:
Looking at them funny and asking "why?" twice. What the fuck did the kid expect, cos I could have stopped reading at that point and accurately predicted the outcome?
Yeah, it's wrong on some bullshit philosophical level but them's the rules of the game as it stands. Aint set to change any time soon so you either play by the rules, learn how to not get caught cheating or face a world of pain.
Yeah, some bullshit philosophical level.
Or basic rights.
Whatever.
You say basic rights. I say pie in the sky fairy stories.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 06, 2013, 04:03:15 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on June 06, 2013, 04:01:46 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 06, 2013, 03:49:46 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 06, 2013, 03:05:30 PM
You're all missing the point. Go back and read the article again.
The kid was put in a choke hold and arrested on felony charges for, LITERALLY, looking at them funny.
:lulz:
AMEEEEERICA, AMEEEEEERICA!
\
:mullet:
Looking at them funny and asking "why?" twice. What the fuck did the kid expect, cos I could have stopped reading at that point and accurately predicted the outcome?
Yeah, it's wrong on some bullshit philosophical level but them's the rules of the game as it stands. Aint set to change any time soon so you either play by the rules, learn how to not get caught cheating or face a world of pain.
Yeah, some bullshit philosophical level.
Or basic rights.
Whatever.
You say basic rights. I say pie in the sky fairy stories.
Reptile brain business.
If people can't access their frontal cortex, it seems they could at LEAST use their dog brains or whatever.
We're on the subject of how things should be, again.
I prefer to focus on how things are.
Yeah, sure, if everybody stood up en masse and said "enough is enough" all the oppression and shitheadedness in the world would just stop, same as it would if I found a genie in a magical lamp.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, I have to contend with a whole bunch of wrong things like filth who will stab you sooner than look at you, government who will screw you sooner than look at you and a finite life expectancy, regardless of how many fun habits I give up.
Fuck if I care what the filth get up to. Long as I'm where they aren't I'm golden. Problem solved.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 06, 2013, 04:18:31 PM
We're on the subject of how things should be, again.
I prefer to focus on how things are.
Yeah, sure, if everybody stood up en masse and said "enough is enough" all the oppression and shitheadedness in the world would just stop, same as it would if I found a genie in a magical lamp.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, I have to contend with a whole bunch of wrong things like filth who will stab you sooner than look at you, government who will screw you sooner than look at you and a finite life expectancy, regardless of how many fun habits I give up.
Fuck if I care what the filth get up to. Long as I'm where they aren't I'm golden. Problem solved.
Sometimes, having an idea of how things SHOULD be is useful in terms of social reform.
I actually believe in trying to change things for the better, and complaining about shit that isn't right is a good start. See: Civil Rights movement.
There is a HUGE gap between "unattainable utopian ideals" and "addressing injustice". I'm not really big on the "just lie down and accept it" approach to institutionalized injustice. We wouldn't have made the progress we HAVE made, if people didn't fight for it. Women would be still powerless, blacks would still be slaves, or at least unable to own property, gay people would still be hanged.
So, you know, go fuck yourself and all that.
Yeah, Turkey thread got me thinking. Maybe we, as a collective, aren't quite past the point of kicking the powermongers into touch after all. Still no fucking idea how to rouse the masses, tho. Not my forte. Maybe incidents like this are part of the process of telling the law - "fuck you we're sick of your bullshit" All the kids make a point of telling them where to get off and they run out of batons and mace or something.
You're right, tho. It's happened in the past. I'm just one of those lucky bastards who's never been successfully oppressed before. I forget that sometimes. :oops:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 06, 2013, 09:20:26 PM
Yeah, Turkey thread got me thinking. Maybe we, as a collective, aren't quite past the point of kicking the powermongers into touch after all. Still no fucking idea how to rouse the masses, tho. Not my forte. Maybe incidents like this are part of the process of telling the law - "fuck you we're sick of your bullshit" All the kids make a point of telling them where to get off and they run out of batons and mace or something.
You're right, tho. It's happened in the past. I'm just one of those lucky bastards who's never been successfully oppressed before. I forget that sometimes. :oops:
Sure you have. You just did it to yourself.
Observe:
QuoteFuck if I care what the filth get up to. Long as I'm where they aren't I'm golden. Problem solved.
Getting away with things you should be able to do isn't the same as being free to do them.
Also:
QuoteYou say basic rights. I say pie in the sky fairy stories.
That is the language of the beaten.
Lastly:
QuoteWhen confronted by the authorities you should immediately apologise politely for whatever it was that got their panties in a knot. And assure them it won't happen again.
That is the tactic of a slave.
Whilst I disagree with the last one - it's the language of the tactician - I gotta confess that the others sound about right
Having a shithead day apparently. Just ignore me. I'll get it sorted asap.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on June 06, 2013, 07:39:02 PM
gay people would still be hanged.
Lobotomies were popular in the 50's.
http://www.davidmixner.com/2010/07/lgbt-history-the-decade-of-lobotomies-castration-and-institutions.html
Yup, we auto-oppress.
But I did get my ass kicked by Houston's finest in 1992, Republican National Convention, and in the build-up to Iraq war two, I got put in a cop car for hanging a banner over a freeway.
...After being unable to stop that clusterfuck of a war, I sort of gave up on giving a shit.
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on June 06, 2013, 11:59:41 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on June 06, 2013, 07:39:02 PM
gay people would still be hanged.
Lobotomies were popular in the 50's.
http://www.davidmixner.com/2010/07/lgbt-history-the-decade-of-lobotomies-castration-and-institutions.html
Yup, we auto-oppress.
But I did get my ass kicked by Houston's finest in 1992, Republican National Convention, and in the build-up to Iraq war two, I got put in a cop car for hanging a banner over a freeway.
...After being unable to stop that clusterfuck of a war, I sort of gave up on giving a shit.
There wasn't any stopping that war. The American public demanded it, or at least 81-87% of them, depending on who you ask.
Also, the peace movement as a whole in 2002-2005 was a rancid fucking joke.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 07, 2013, 12:01:57 AM
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on June 06, 2013, 11:59:41 PM
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on June 06, 2013, 07:39:02 PM
gay people would still be hanged.
Lobotomies were popular in the 50's.
http://www.davidmixner.com/2010/07/lgbt-history-the-decade-of-lobotomies-castration-and-institutions.html
Yup, we auto-oppress.
But I did get my ass kicked by Houston's finest in 1992, Republican National Convention, and in the build-up to Iraq war two, I got put in a cop car for hanging a banner over a freeway.
...After being unable to stop that clusterfuck of a war, I sort of gave up on giving a shit.
There wasn't any stopping that war. The American public demanded it, or at least 81-87% of them, depending on who you ask.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 07, 2013, 12:02:37 AM
Also, the peace movement as a whole in 2002-2005 was a rancid fucking joke.
True that, and true that.
...And that's why I said fuck it.
...The American people will be all happy about the next fucking war, and the one after that.
My tax dollars go to blow shit up while I see homeless people around where I work pushing IV drips, and the schools go all to hell, and the bridges fall into the fucking rivers because having safe bridges is less important than having fucking cruise missiles. We could have actual jobs making actual things for each other, things we need, but our government's far too interested in blowing shit up.
Also locking not-white people up for having tiny amounts of weed.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 06, 2013, 09:20:26 PM
Yeah, Turkey thread got me thinking. Maybe we, as a collective, aren't quite past the point of kicking the powermongers into touch after all. Still no fucking idea how to rouse the masses, tho. Not my forte. Maybe incidents like this are part of the process of telling the law - "fuck you we're sick of your bullshit" All the kids make a point of telling them where to get off and they run out of batons and mace or something.
You're right, tho. It's happened in the past. I'm just one of those lucky bastards who's never been successfully oppressed before. I forget that sometimes. :oops:
Ah, but you're capable of thinking and willing to do so, and that makes all the difference.
I think that we CAN still effect change, but it will probably take something big to do it, like people refusing to pay their debts en masse, or mass walkouts, or riots, something along those lines.
I haven't given up yet.
Quote from: M. Nigel Salt on June 07, 2013, 02:03:51 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 06, 2013, 09:20:26 PM
Yeah, Turkey thread got me thinking. Maybe we, as a collective, aren't quite past the point of kicking the powermongers into touch after all. Still no fucking idea how to rouse the masses, tho. Not my forte. Maybe incidents like this are part of the process of telling the law - "fuck you we're sick of your bullshit" All the kids make a point of telling them where to get off and they run out of batons and mace or something.
You're right, tho. It's happened in the past. I'm just one of those lucky bastards who's never been successfully oppressed before. I forget that sometimes. :oops:
Ah, but you're capable of thinking and willing to do so, and that makes all the difference.
I think that we CAN still effect change, but it will probably take something big to do it, like people refusing to pay their debts en masse, or mass walkouts, or riots, something along those lines.
Yeah, that's generally how it seems to happen. Like I said, until that turkey thing, I was of the opinion that we (collectively) had been "domesticated" past the point of being able to take care of that kind of business the way the last couple of generations did.
The thing that fucks me up is time. I'm already way past half my life and it's all downhill from here. I find myself selfishly wondering if I give enough of a fuck about changing things for future generations to waste what little time I have left pissing into the hurricane or do I just get on with experiencing the shit that really turns me on, given that I'm practically immune to the disintegrating civilisation around me.
They say Nero fiddled while Rome burned. If I played violin I'd probably do the same thing.
eta: I'm not saying this is right. It's just how I feel
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 07, 2013, 09:23:05 AM
I find myself selfishly wondering if I give enough of a fuck about changing things for future generations to waste what little time I have left pissing into the hurricane
It's ignoble, but I'd like to have a little joy before I have to go.
For me it's the choice between standing in front of some imaginary god, at the end and answering the question "how was it?" with either "fucking hated it and accomplished nothing" or "that was fucking awesome, when can I have another go?"
Here's something that just occurred to me. Maybe I'm right and maybe I'm wrong so I'll throw it out there for you lot to chew on.
The main problem is not the famous one percent we keep hearing about. If it was I'd fix it this afternoon, after I get home from work and before my dinner. The main problem is the billions of dumbasses (me included) who go along with it.
The solution must lie in motivating billions of dumbasses?
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 07, 2013, 11:46:05 AM
Here's something that just occurred to me. Maybe I'm right and maybe I'm wrong so I'll throw it out there for you lot to chew on.
The main problem is not the famous one percent we keep hearing about. If it was I'd fix it this afternoon, after I get home from work and before my dinner. The main problem is the billions of dumbasses (me included) who go along with it.
The solution must lie in motivating billions of dumbasses?
Yeah, pretty much.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 07, 2013, 11:38:04 AM
For me it's the choice between standing in front of some imaginary god, at the end and answering the question "how was it?" with either "fucking hated it and accomplished nothing" or "that was fucking awesome, when can I have another go?"
Such is the nature of privilege.
I don't think the format of "something magically insurrected everyone, and now we're gonna march on the capital and change everything" is actually real, because when that happens, its either a situation where 30% of the population are starving to death or there's instigator agents from a foreign power...
Having said that, I had the opportunity to study and get the training to be paid to do "good things", not everyone gets that opportunity... even with this opportunity i have of choosing, I am faced with the constant threat of corruption and negligence by either my subordinates, work-team or superiors, so the best i can do is, do the "right thing", whichever it might be in the given situation, and that usually involves putting oneself in very volatile situations in which denouncing can fix things, but it can also lead to oneself getting fired.
So my main ideas would be:
*Talk is cheap, actions are what count.
*One can (should?) only make ethical decisions/actions within the realms of one's sphere of influence, but that can have a domino effect that goes beyond what is immediatly recognizable.
Raising a big stink and affecting public opinion can be a surprisingly effective method of changing public policy, though.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on June 07, 2013, 11:46:05 AM
The solution must lie in motivating billions of dumbasses?
:sad:
Actually, probably a little less than a billion to achieve critical mass....
But still...
:sad:
The Catholic Church has managed to motivate a billion dumbasses.
Are you gonna let yourselves get outplayed by a bunch of robe wearing, Latin chanting sex predators?
Quote from: Cain on June 08, 2013, 10:59:25 AM
Are you gonna let yourselves get outplayed by a bunch of robe wearing, Latin chanting sex predators?
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JRkgseRT7NY/TCfnHWpFXfI/AAAAAAAACVM/E3hPHLmjouc/s400/pedophile+priest+chasing+children+warning+sign.jpg)
Yeah, we gotta step it up.
(FYI-above image is that of a sign made by someone abused by a priest, as a protest...he installed several of them in the neighborhood of the church in his town.)
Quote from: Cain on June 08, 2013, 10:59:25 AM
The Catholic Church has managed to motivate a billion dumbasses.
Are you gonna let yourselves get outplayed by a bunch of robe wearing, Latin chanting sex predators?
:potd:
Quote from: Cain on June 08, 2013, 10:59:25 AM
The Catholic Church has managed to motivate manipulate a billion dumbasses.
Are you gonna let yourselves get outplayed by a bunch of robe wearing, Latin chanting sex predators?
This isnt directed at you per se, but a derivative of several comments ITT.
All the memebombs project is a failure for the same reason the more elaborate interaction done by Jehovah's Witnesses is shutdown: people in general will not listen attentively or critically at anything that does not fit into their worldview and representations, they will simply dismiss it.
In this forum communication is possible because everyone shares to a certain point a worldview and the basic infrastructure to view things critically, so we kind of speak the same language and are able to understand each other; now, if everyone would notice, there are a lot of shared assumptions in that communication, and anyone that doesnt have the "basic critical thinking infrastructure" to them it will all sound like crazy talk or another factions circle-jerk.
I recommend this exersice for everyone here in PD: how much of what we say is preaching to the choir?Now, regarding communication/motivation vs. manipulation... manipulation is aimed at our "reptilian brain" (so to speak), and
the message is constructed in the manner in which it cannot be ignored ignored in the sense that it WILL provoke a reaction, and it is intrinsically targeted at our most basic fears and desires... communication is aimed at our higher brain functions, in which data/phenomena that is interpreted in a certain manner to imply a conclusion/course-of-action, but that implies
active effort,
responsability for one's own actions and not following the "law/lifestyle" of the path of least resistance.
It can be called behaviorism, or it can be called "stick and carrot", whichever you prefer, but the basics it refers to is the immediacy of the moment and the inability to see beyond that due to either a lack of education, the daily pressures of making rent and surviving, or an attempt at a short-sighted "happy" life.
I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me comfort or give me whatever!