Okay, I'm gonna go on record as saying that otherkin are mostly harmless. Normally, that meets my standard for "supporting your weirdness". However, there's a certain vibe to them that gets my hate gland kicking.
Consider: If you were born in America, you have pretty much already won the lottery (at least as far as privilege, comfort, and toys go). That nice, cushy lifestyle (as compared to say, Somalia or Darfur) was purchased at a pretty steep price, in both literal and moral senses. Slaves had to work the fields, 10 million or so Native Americans got killed, and the rest shoved onto tiny patches of worthless land. Then we had a big spat about slavery and states' rights (that cost another 600,000 corpses), a couple of world wars (the second of which made us very wealthy indeed), etc.
And this bounty, this plenty, this amazing stack of ill-gotten loot? A civilized country would go to mars with it, or create great works of art, or try to further raise everyone's standard of living. And in fact many people try to do these exact things.
But not otherkin. Otherkin merely ingest this wealth, and then retreat into a daydream of being a "wunk" (which, I am told, is a cross between a wolf and a skunk) or something similar. Or a dragon. Or whatever the fuck they THINK they'd be happy as...But if they aren't happy in a perfectly good body of one type, they won't be happy in another. They don't seem to contribute anything besides pics of anthropomorphized animals fucking on deviantart.
This is what happens when there are no perceived challenges left. Adults without challenges go a little nutty, and regress into childhood.
Contrast this with Juggalos. Juggalos take the wealth of the land they live in, and they take it to THE WALL, screaming incomprehensible ICP lyrics while waving a bottle of Faygo around. All they want is to get fucked up, dance to bad music, and stomp shit. I mean, they're not producing much EITHER, but they are AT LEAST demonstrating that SOMEONE remembers Saturday Night. And you know, having a good time is good enough. It justifies a lot (not all, of course) of the shitty things that happened to get us where we are. Are Juggalos dumb? Yes. Are they losers? From many points of view, yes. DO THEY REMEMBER WHAT FUN IS? Also yes.
Otherkin, on the other hand, will not be found at midnight bonfires, fucked out of their gourds on cheap drugs and rock and roll music. No. They will be found in the basement, fapping to deviant art until half of what comes out is blood and foam. That is not The Wall. That is not Saturday Night.
And why do they do this? Because they are unhappy. They think they'd be happy if they were wolves or some shit, but if you can't be happy in a perfectly healthy human body, you wouldn't be happy as a dragon, either. They are unhappy because they have no self-respect. They have no self-respect because they've never accomplished anything. Hell, even the Jugallos occasionally fuck each other...Which doesn't seem like much of an accomplishment until you see them in daylight. Still.
So the reason I hate Otherkin when there are equally silly people that I don't hate is this: They are WASTING the ONE CHANCE humanity has EVER had to step up and DO GREAT THINGS. Or even just to party it up like GODDAMN PHARAOHS. No, Yiff conventions don't count (I have had the misfortune of seeing one in action), so shut up.
Now, in closing, I think these misery bags have the right to be the way they are. Don't get me wrong on that. But I also have the right to hate them and to mercilessly mock them wherever I go.
Because John Henry and Casey Jones didn't die for THAT shit.
Or Kill Me.
:mittens:
Juggalos: receive massive amounts of shit, but they exist to party like it's the end of the fucking world.
Otherkin: receive massive amounts of shit, and they exist for exactly that reason. So give them what they want, by all means.
That's disturbingly reasonable.
Yes. All of that. If people need to pursue happieness on all fours, let em. I just happen to take my fun from mockery, LET ME.
Quote from: Alty on August 16, 2013, 08:13:25 PM
Yes. All of that. If people need to pursue happieness on all fours, let em. I just happen to take my fun from mockery, LET ME.
The problem is, there are a great many people who are terribly insensitive about our insensitivity.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 08:14:08 PM
Quote from: Alty on August 16, 2013, 08:13:25 PM
Yes. All of that. If people need to pursue happieness on all fours, let em. I just happen to take my fun from mockery, LET ME.
The problem is, there are a great many people who are terribly insensitive about our insensitivity.
Why won't they just let us be who we are.
Nobody gets more common, off hand dismissal and persecution than trolls. We do all the heavy lifting, taking it upon ourselves to do our damndest to give the ignorant, the bigoted, the weak-hate filled a solid, uh, Rogering? And what thanks do we get? Lumped in with bullies and regular assholes.
We are COMPLETE assholes, in that we are well rounded, completed and made whole through our rage spewing.
Where's the gratitude? Otherkin, pfff. PFFFFFFFFFFFLLLLLLLTHTHTHLPLLPLPL.
This has weakened my soulbond to Burger Time for the Atari 2600. I am further from Mr Egg than ever before.
I find this to be a rather eloquent defense of juggalos. Never looked at it that way.
Quote from: McGrupp on August 16, 2013, 08:34:06 PM
This has weakened my soulbond to Burger Time for the Atari 2600. I am further from Mr Egg than ever before.
I find this to be a rather eloquent defense of juggalos. Never looked at it that way.
Partying is a worthy use of resources.
Because you have to have a laugh. It's a necessity.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 08:14:08 PM
Quote from: Alty on August 16, 2013, 08:13:25 PM
Yes. All of that. If people need to pursue happieness on all fours, let em. I just happen to take my fun from mockery, LET ME.
The problem is, there are a great many people who are terribly insensitive about our insensitivity.
I think they need to PRACTICE WHAT THEY PREACH.
Personally, I preach radical intolerance.
Seriously, the ONE GOOD THING about the existence of "otherkin" is that it implies we don't have anything serious to worry about.
Excellent rant, Roger.
QuoteOtherkin, on the other hand, will not be found at midnight bonfires, fucked out of their gourds on cheap drugs and rock and roll music. No. They will be found in the basement, fapping to deviant art until half of what comes out is blood and foam. That is not The Wall. That is not Saturday Night.
YES.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 08:50:12 PM
Seriously, the ONE GOOD THING about the existence of "otherkin" is that it implies we don't have anything serious to worry about.
That, or that the problems are so huge that pretending to be a unicorn tiger with wings seems like a reasonable alternative to thinking about them.
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 16, 2013, 09:17:32 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 08:50:12 PM
Seriously, the ONE GOOD THING about the existence of "otherkin" is that it implies we don't have anything serious to worry about.
That, or that the problems are so huge that pretending to be a unicorn tiger with wings seems like a reasonable alternative to thinking about them.
Well, I meant SERIOUS serious. If the Nazis are invading, the otherkin grow up on the run or DIE. If they're around, you're okay for the moment. They are like canaries in a coal mine. They indicate that there is still food and electronic entertainment. So, while dystopian things may be occurring, there is no imminent threat of immediate death, as long as you can see some otherkin tard wandering around.
Predators get the slow and the fat first. You and I will run like gazelles, oblivious to the screams of the much less ambulatory guy in the dragon outfit.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 09:20:39 PM
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 16, 2013, 09:17:32 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 08:50:12 PM
Seriously, the ONE GOOD THING about the existence of "otherkin" is that it implies we don't have anything serious to worry about.
That, or that the problems are so huge that pretending to be a unicorn tiger with wings seems like a reasonable alternative to thinking about them.
Well, I meant SERIOUS serious. If the Nazis are invading, the otherkin grow up on the run or DIE. If they're around, you're okay for the moment. They are like canaries in a coal mine. They indicate that there is still food and electronic entertainment. So, while dystopian things may be occurring, there is no imminent threat of immediate death, as long as you can see some otherkin tard wandering around.
Predators get the slow and the fat first. You and I will run like gazelles, oblivious to the screams of the much less ambulatory guy in the dragon outfit.
:lulz:
This is true
"I'm really a dragon on the inside" becomes much less of an urgent problem when you don't have anything to eat and/or you're in danger of freezing to death.
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 16, 2013, 09:22:16 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 09:20:39 PM
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 16, 2013, 09:17:32 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 08:50:12 PM
Seriously, the ONE GOOD THING about the existence of "otherkin" is that it implies we don't have anything serious to worry about.
That, or that the problems are so huge that pretending to be a unicorn tiger with wings seems like a reasonable alternative to thinking about them.
Well, I meant SERIOUS serious. If the Nazis are invading, the otherkin grow up on the run or DIE. If they're around, you're okay for the moment. They are like canaries in a coal mine. They indicate that there is still food and electronic entertainment. So, while dystopian things may be occurring, there is no imminent threat of immediate death, as long as you can see some otherkin tard wandering around.
Predators get the slow and the fat first. You and I will run like gazelles, oblivious to the screams of the much less ambulatory guy in the dragon outfit.
:lulz:
This is true
"I'm really a dragon on the inside" becomes much less of an urgent problem when you don't have anything to eat and/or you're in danger of freezing to death.
And that inside dragon doesn't mean JACK to the REAL bear sniffing its way toward you.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 09:24:04 PM
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 16, 2013, 09:22:16 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 09:20:39 PM
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 16, 2013, 09:17:32 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 08:50:12 PM
Seriously, the ONE GOOD THING about the existence of "otherkin" is that it implies we don't have anything serious to worry about.
That, or that the problems are so huge that pretending to be a unicorn tiger with wings seems like a reasonable alternative to thinking about them.
Well, I meant SERIOUS serious. If the Nazis are invading, the otherkin grow up on the run or DIE. If they're around, you're okay for the moment. They are like canaries in a coal mine. They indicate that there is still food and electronic entertainment. So, while dystopian things may be occurring, there is no imminent threat of immediate death, as long as you can see some otherkin tard wandering around.
Predators get the slow and the fat first. You and I will run like gazelles, oblivious to the screams of the much less ambulatory guy in the dragon outfit.
:lulz:
This is true
"I'm really a dragon on the inside" becomes much less of an urgent problem when you don't have anything to eat and/or you're in danger of freezing to death.
And that inside dragon doesn't mean JACK to the REAL bear sniffing its way toward you.
Yeah, the bear isn't thinking "I wonder if I can defeat that Otherkin dragon?" it's thinking "MEAT SNACK, INCOMING!"
My otherkin persona is a tall naked1 primate with his teeth bared and a big fucking rock in his fist.
He is willing to take that dragon on, because he's REAL and the dragon ISN'T.
1 Technically, anyway.
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 16, 2013, 09:17:32 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 08:50:12 PM
Seriously, the ONE GOOD THING about the existence of "otherkin" is that it implies we don't have anything serious to worry about.
That, or that the problems are so huge that pretending to be a unicorn tiger with wings seems like a reasonable alternative to thinking about them.
Or the subject sees the problems as too huge to deal with so takes refuge in fantasy. Thus stunting normal biped thinking and resulting in all future interactions being fucked as they can never communicate as an equal. How are you equal to a MIGHTY FUCKING DRAGON? You're just not. I'm X and you're just a boring Y. The only people you'll end up actually talking to seriously in these cases are those that appear to share your particular delusion.
Consider the "Sarah Saga". I wouldn't be surprised if that was an exceptionally abusive childhood resulting in a lot of time in a sort of fuge state with whatever game it was. Then some kind of shift happens resulting in the crazy having to venture forth into the world without any of the required tools to deal with it.
Possibly. It's quite likely that the VAST majority really should just fucking know better. Just seemed worth noting as there seems to be a significant number that are somewhat damaged.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 09:27:57 PM
My otherkin persona is a tall naked1 primate with his teeth bared and a big fucking rock in his fist.
He is willing to take that dragon on, because he's REAL and the dragon ISN'T.
1 Technically, anyway.
My otherkin persona only appears to be naked, but is actually wearing the skins of her enemies.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 16, 2013, 09:29:04 PM
Or the subject sees the problems as too huge to deal with so takes refuge in fantasy.
I was referring to an
immediate threat. No longer imminent. Already here, with a smile on its face.
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 16, 2013, 09:31:29 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 09:27:57 PM
My otherkin persona is a tall naked1 primate with his teeth bared and a big fucking rock in his fist.
He is willing to take that dragon on, because he's REAL and the dragon ISN'T.
1 Technically, anyway.
My otherkin persona only appears to be naked, but is actually wearing the skins of her enemies.
Mine can't sew. :(
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 09:31:55 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 16, 2013, 09:29:04 PM
Or the subject sees the problems as too huge to deal with so takes refuge in fantasy.
I was referring to an immediate threat. No longer imminent. Already here, with a smile on its face.
Just worked that out. 5 new replies. Was posting it anyway by that point.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 16, 2013, 09:29:04 PM
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 16, 2013, 09:17:32 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 08:50:12 PM
Seriously, the ONE GOOD THING about the existence of "otherkin" is that it implies we don't have anything serious to worry about.
That, or that the problems are so huge that pretending to be a unicorn tiger with wings seems like a reasonable alternative to thinking about them.
Or the subject sees the problems as too huge to deal with so takes refuge in fantasy. Thus stunting normal biped thinking and resulting in all future interactions being fucked as they can never communicate as an equal. How are you equal to a MIGHTY FUCKING DRAGON? You're just not. I'm X and you're just a boring Y. The only people you'll end up actually talking to seriously in these cases are those that appear to share your particular delusion.
Consider the "Sarah Saga". I wouldn't be surprised if that was an exceptionally abusive childhood resulting in a lot of time in a sort of fuge state with whatever game it was. Then some kind of shift happens resulting in the crazy having to venture forth into the world without any of the required tools to deal with it.
Possibly. It's quite likely that the VAST majority really should just fucking know better. Just seemed worth noting as there seems to be a significant number that are somewhat damaged.
Junkenstein, I frequently think you make totally excellent and valid observations and speculations, and I think you probably have a really valid point in this case (although from my preliminary research there isn't a particularly strong correlation between body dysmorphic disorder and past trauma) but it's really offputting when you begin a post with wording that normally implies that you are
disagreeing with the previous or quoted post.
If you want to restate and expand on a previous person's post, I suggest using words such as "Also" and "in addition" rather than words like "but" and "or" to begin your response, which imply that you are being argumentative, and at least in my case, can put people on the defensive or make them less receptive to your post.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 09:32:22 PM
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 16, 2013, 09:31:29 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 09:27:57 PM
My otherkin persona is a tall naked1 primate with his teeth bared and a big fucking rock in his fist.
He is willing to take that dragon on, because he's REAL and the dragon ISN'T.
1 Technically, anyway.
My otherkin persona only appears to be naked, but is actually wearing the skins of her enemies.
Mine can't sew. :(
:lulz:
My Otherkin persona is a white guy who is in all ways exactly like my observable self, but with less pollen allergies.
WHAT YOU SEE IS NOT THE REAL ME.
If i had a choice, I'd be a bearstool, bringing Truth™ to your face with teeth and wood and fur.
I'm assuming Otherkin is another word for Furry but with the attempt to be less ridiculous?
Why would you want to be other than a human being? Sure, we're flawed, but we've split the atom and gone to the Moon. Plus, we're generally ugly if we have scales or normal amounts of mammalian butt hair.
QuoteThey are WASTING the ONE CHANCE humanity has EVER had to step up and DO GREAT THINGS. Or even just to party it up like GODDAMN PHARAOHS. No, Yiff conventions don't count (I have had the misfortune of seeing one in action), so shut up.
It is a goddamn waste. We're hypothetically on the verge of being a multiworld species and we end up doing stupid shit like apparently pretending to be something else when we should take being a human to THE WALL, and both party it up like GODDAMN PHARAOHS while inching ever closer to Mars at the same damn time. Really this planet isn't large enough for THE PARTY that we're capable of throwing. Hell, on the Moon, Saturday night works out to be 56 hours (on Mars, it's still approximately 12, with a few extra minutes). Imagine what it would be like on a terraformed Venus where Saturday night is 1/14 of the whole goddamn year?
Also, you've given me a respect for Juggalos, who are essentially black metallers who listen to shitty music and are the antithesis of the seriousness which black metallers take themselves.
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 16, 2013, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 16, 2013, 09:29:04 PM
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 16, 2013, 09:17:32 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 08:50:12 PM
Seriously, the ONE GOOD THING about the existence of "otherkin" is that it implies we don't have anything serious to worry about.
That, or that the problems are so huge that pretending to be a unicorn tiger with wings seems like a reasonable alternative to thinking about them.
Or the subject sees the problems as too huge to deal with so takes refuge in fantasy. Thus stunting normal biped thinking and resulting in all future interactions being fucked as they can never communicate as an equal. How are you equal to a MIGHTY FUCKING DRAGON? You're just not. I'm X and you're just a boring Y. The only people you'll end up actually talking to seriously in these cases are those that appear to share your particular delusion.
Consider the "Sarah Saga". I wouldn't be surprised if that was an exceptionally abusive childhood resulting in a lot of time in a sort of fuge state with whatever game it was. Then some kind of shift happens resulting in the crazy having to venture forth into the world without any of the required tools to deal with it.
Possibly. It's quite likely that the VAST majority really should just fucking know better. Just seemed worth noting as there seems to be a significant number that are somewhat damaged.
Junkenstein, I frequently think you make totally excellent and valid observations and speculations, and I think you probably have a really valid point in this case (although from my preliminary research there isn't a particularly strong correlation between body dysmorphic disorder and past trauma) but it's really offputting when you begin a post with wording that normally implies that you are disagreeing with the previous or quoted post.
If you want to restate and expand on a previous person's post, I suggest using words such as "Also" and "in addition" rather than words like "but" and "or" to begin your response, which imply that you are being argumentative, and at least in my case, can put people on the defensive or make them less receptive to your post.
Ah. That wasn't the intention, the "or" just seemed to be the best way to add the possibility into the mix. I'll try and phrase shit better when I dive into the middle of something.
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 17, 2013, 04:59:30 AM
I'm assuming Otherkin is another word for Furry but with the attempt to be less ridiculous?
Why would you want to be other than a human being? Sure, we're flawed, but we've split the atom and gone to the Moon. Plus, we're generally ugly if we have scales or normal amounts of mammalian butt hair.
QuoteThey are WASTING the ONE CHANCE humanity has EVER had to step up and DO GREAT THINGS. Or even just to party it up like GODDAMN PHARAOHS. No, Yiff conventions don't count (I have had the misfortune of seeing one in action), so shut up.
It is a goddamn waste. We're hypothetically on the verge of being a multiworld species and we end up doing stupid shit like apparently pretending to be something else when we should take being a human to THE WALL, and both party it up like GODDAMN PHARAOHS while inching ever closer to Mars at the same damn time. Really this planet isn't large enough for THE PARTY that we're capable of throwing. Hell, on the Moon, Saturday night works out to be 56 hours (on Mars, it's still approximately 12, with a few extra minutes). Imagine what it would be like on a terraformed Venus where Saturday night is 1/14 of the whole goddamn year?
Also, you've given me a respect for Juggalos, who are essentially black metallers who listen to shitty music and are the antithesis of the seriousness which black metallers take themselves.
I don't think Juggalos are quite as negative about everything as black metallers.
I think a bit too much credit is being given to them for not taking themselves seriously. They are clowns, taking yourself seriously as a clown is kind of the most basic fail.
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 17, 2013, 04:59:30 AM
I'm assuming Otherkin is another word for Furry but with the attempt to be less ridiculous?
MORE ridiculous, really. Otherkin are people who think being a Furry isn't weird enough, and need to marginalize themselves even further by identifying as fictional creatures (fairies, unicorns, the brave little toaster, whatever the fuck).
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 17, 2013, 04:59:30 AM
I'm assuming Otherkin is another word for Furry but with the attempt to be less ridiculous?
Why would you want to be other than a human being? Sure, we're flawed, but we've split the atom and gone to the Moon. Plus, we're generally ugly if we have scales or normal amounts of mammalian butt hair.
QuoteThey are WASTING the ONE CHANCE humanity has EVER had to step up and DO GREAT THINGS. Or even just to party it up like GODDAMN PHARAOHS. No, Yiff conventions don't count (I have had the misfortune of seeing one in action), so shut up.
It is a goddamn waste. We're hypothetically on the verge of being a multiworld species and we end up doing stupid shit like apparently pretending to be something else when we should take being a human to THE WALL, and both party it up like GODDAMN PHARAOHS while inching ever closer to Mars at the same damn time. Really this planet isn't large enough for THE PARTY that we're capable of throwing. Hell, on the Moon, Saturday night works out to be 56 hours (on Mars, it's still approximately 12, with a few extra minutes). Imagine what it would be like on a terraformed Venus where Saturday night is 1/14 of the whole goddamn year?
Also, you've given me a respect for Juggalos, who are essentially black metallers who listen to shitty music and are the antithesis of the seriousness which black metallers take themselves.
To be fair, black metallers know how to Saturday Night. At least the ones I know, do.
Also, great rant Roger.
Quote from: Cainad on August 17, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 17, 2013, 04:59:30 AM
I'm assuming Otherkin is another word for Furry but with the attempt to be less ridiculous?
MORE ridiculous, really. Otherkin are people who think being a Furry isn't weird enough, and need to marginalize themselves even further by identifying as fictional creatures (fairies, unicorns, the brave little toaster, whatever the fuck).
These are to be distinguished from those who merely FALL IN LOVE with imaginary and/or inanimate objects, which is its whole own pathology. I've been guilty of that, myself... see Mr. Language.
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 17, 2013, 04:07:49 PM
Quote from: Cainad on August 17, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 17, 2013, 04:59:30 AM
I'm assuming Otherkin is another word for Furry but with the attempt to be less ridiculous?
MORE ridiculous, really. Otherkin are people who think being a Furry isn't weird enough, and need to marginalize themselves even further by identifying as fictional creatures (fairies, unicorns, the brave little toaster, whatever the fuck).
These are to be distinguished from those who merely FALL IN LOVE with imaginary and/or inanimate objects, which is its whole own pathology. I've been guilty of that, myself... see Mr. Language.
:lulz: :horrormirth:
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 17, 2013, 10:42:40 AM
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 16, 2013, 09:39:10 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 16, 2013, 09:29:04 PM
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 16, 2013, 09:17:32 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 16, 2013, 08:50:12 PM
Seriously, the ONE GOOD THING about the existence of "otherkin" is that it implies we don't have anything serious to worry about.
That, or that the problems are so huge that pretending to be a unicorn tiger with wings seems like a reasonable alternative to thinking about them.
Or the subject sees the problems as too huge to deal with so takes refuge in fantasy. Thus stunting normal biped thinking and resulting in all future interactions being fucked as they can never communicate as an equal. How are you equal to a MIGHTY FUCKING DRAGON? You're just not. I'm X and you're just a boring Y. The only people you'll end up actually talking to seriously in these cases are those that appear to share your particular delusion.
Consider the "Sarah Saga". I wouldn't be surprised if that was an exceptionally abusive childhood resulting in a lot of time in a sort of fuge state with whatever game it was. Then some kind of shift happens resulting in the crazy having to venture forth into the world without any of the required tools to deal with it.
Possibly. It's quite likely that the VAST majority really should just fucking know better. Just seemed worth noting as there seems to be a significant number that are somewhat damaged.
Junkenstein, I frequently think you make totally excellent and valid observations and speculations, and I think you probably have a really valid point in this case (although from my preliminary research there isn't a particularly strong correlation between body dysmorphic disorder and past trauma) but it's really offputting when you begin a post with wording that normally implies that you are disagreeing with the previous or quoted post.
If you want to restate and expand on a previous person's post, I suggest using words such as "Also" and "in addition" rather than words like "but" and "or" to begin your response, which imply that you are being argumentative, and at least in my case, can put people on the defensive or make them less receptive to your post.
Ah. That wasn't the intention, the "or" just seemed to be the best way to add the possibility into the mix. I'll try and phrase shit better when I dive into the middle of something.
No worries, I just noticed that I often get my back up and, honestly, will have a knee-jerk reaction to your posts, which is entirely on me, but I finally analyzed why and figured you would probably benefit from knowing.
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 17, 2013, 04:07:49 PM
Quote from: Cainad on August 17, 2013, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 17, 2013, 04:59:30 AM
I'm assuming Otherkin is another word for Furry but with the attempt to be less ridiculous?
MORE ridiculous, really. Otherkin are people who think being a Furry isn't weird enough, and need to marginalize themselves even further by identifying as fictional creatures (fairies, unicorns, the brave little toaster, whatever the fuck).
These are to be distinguished from those who merely FALL IN LOVE with imaginary and/or inanimate objects, which is its whole own pathology. I've been guilty of that, myself... see Mr. Language.
DANG! :lulz:
Ladies and gentlemen, I've met Mr Language. This is not some horrible thing said by an Ex. It's the simple truth.
All my replies to this are pretty moot. I keep writing and deleting but the bare bones is this.
I identified as an otherkin for a long time. It was escapism and a coping mechanism for shit I could not handle. It was also the manifestation of a deep, unrelenting feeling that I'm in the wrong place and the wrong body.
The group I associated with online were decent people. The people I knew in real life were bugnuts insane and I stopped hanging out with them as soon as feasible since one or two of them were my roommates at the time. Eventually the online community was somewhat over run and then abandoned and things have somewhat devolved.
It's basically a fight to be relevant and have all the rights and courtesies accorded to them that everyone deserves. For instance, one fellow I know wanted a separate bathroom so he could pee on the floor with his leg lifted like a dog. Not joking. It's a lot of people wanting to change the language and adjust social stereotypes to put them on equal or superior footing with the cheerleaders and jocks in the lunch room. And now it's more about fictives and plural systems than anything else.
Like any other subgroup, it got weird. Unlike most others, it got real weird real fast and largely collapsed under the weight of its own crazy. But apparently it has regrouped for a second attempt on Tumblr.
And from what I can gather it's a fight about who's real and who's faking and everyone is equal - except for the fakes - who are determined by popular vote. So it's already doomed to blow up again.
Another generation of lost and fucked up people going to war in paper tanks with plastic claws.
CPD, I for one would be interested to see you write more on this if you feel up to it.
QuoteIt's basically a fight to be relevant and have all the rights and courtesies accorded to them that everyone deserves. For instance, one fellow I know wanted a separate bathroom so he could pee on the floor with his leg lifted like a dog. Not joking. It's a lot of people wanting to change the language and adjust social stereotypes to put them on equal or superior footing with the cheerleaders and jocks in the lunch room.
That kind of ties into what I was thinking with some of this as it being some kind of magical social status adjustor. "I'm a X so the hot Y will now totally want me" logic distorted and self/group reinforced?
More an aside, but you also mention a difference between those online and those you met and dealt with. Did your real life crazies exhibit abnormal behaviour online? It's a tricky one for me to gauge. For all I know, I appear to be a decent person on the internet.
Finally, kudos. It takes balls to admit you previously held a crazy belief and the considerable regard I hold you in has increased.
I honestly think that a lot of that dysphoria is about the world being a bad place. It creates a lot of tension in most people, and I think a lot of young people react to the tension by feeling that the thing that is wrong is THEM, their body or even their very existence, rather than recognizing that they are all right and it's the entire rest of the world that is wrong.
Which, really, in so many ways, is a very reasonable conclusion to come to. "Wow, I am really uncomfortable with THE ENTIRE EVERYTHING. Obviously, the logical conclusion is that the problem is me, and not EVERYTHING ELSE".
But in this particular case, it actually IS that the entire society and the habitat we live in is fucked. So on that level, I can't totally blame anyone for not wanting to be human.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 17, 2013, 06:05:12 PM
CPD, I for one would be interested to see you write more on this if you feel up to it.
QuoteIt's basically a fight to be relevant and have all the rights and courtesies accorded to them that everyone deserves. For instance, one fellow I know wanted a separate bathroom so he could pee on the floor with his leg lifted like a dog. Not joking. It's a lot of people wanting to change the language and adjust social stereotypes to put them on equal or superior footing with the cheerleaders and jocks in the lunch room.
That kind of ties into what I was thinking with some of this as it being some kind of magical social status adjustor. "I'm a X so the hot Y will now totally want me" logic distorted and self/group reinforced?
More an aside, but you also mention a difference between those online and those you met and dealt with. Did your real life crazies exhibit abnormal behaviour online? It's a tricky one for me to gauge. For all I know, I appear to be a decent person on the internet.
Finally, kudos. It takes balls to admit you previously held a crazy belief and the considerable regard I hold you in has increased.
I eventually want to write up what I remember about that shit but I don't want to drag it all over PD. There was just
so much shit.
Yeah, stuff like that is basically a D&D modification chart for meatspace. I have this that and these so you owe me all that and some of this and a bunch of those. And there's a lot of feeding on that whole need to belong while being a special snowflake. You either drink everyone else's Kool-Aid or no one's going to drink yours.
The real-life crazies came across as online gurus, mostly. "I've had all these experiences and done all these things, I can guide you if you give me all due respect and then some." But in real life it was "I ate ants for lunch today just to prove my superiority over ant-people. Tomorrow it will be squirrels because one threw a nut at my car." or "I'm a gypsy werewolf princess and no one respects me. I will cut myself and leave bloody smears all over the bathroom and make hex marks so everyone fears my power."
One of the reasons I tried to avoid EBS and C_A at TCC. They're probably licking paste off tongue depressors and gluing sparkles to their eyelids or some crazy shit.
Yeaaaaaaaah. That line of y'all came up with . . . if you stand for anything, you'll fall for something. I really liked that because it seemed to sum up my life in a tidy package. It probably won't be the last time something crazy takes root in my skull. But at least now I've got better odds at fixing it quick.
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 17, 2013, 06:52:49 PM
I honestly think that a lot of that dysphoria is about the world being a bad place. It creates a lot of tension in most people, and I think a lot of young people react to the tension by feeling that the thing that is wrong is THEM, their body or even their very existence, rather than recognizing that they are all right and it's the entire rest of the world that is wrong.
Which, really, in so many ways, is a very reasonable conclusion to come to. "Wow, I am really uncomfortable with THE ENTIRE EVERYTHING. Obviously, the logical conclusion is that the problem is me, and not EVERYTHING ELSE".
But in this particular case, it actually IS that the entire society and the habitat we live in is fucked. So on that level, I can't totally blame anyone for not wanting to be human.
That seems reasonable, and it definitely helps explain why so many people who fall into that mindset usually express themselves in negative terms.
Almost every time I've seen someone identify as somehow other-than-human, they refer to personal experiences that are negative. Activities they can't do, things they can't eat, social situations that they can't adapt to, etc. A lot of the time it comes down to "I can't seem to relate to most people around me," which is of course a feature of our highly alienating contemporary culture. They develop all of these little aversions and stress reactions that fit the persona. Thing like Furries hissing or snarling like animals, or Otherkin reacting to things their fictional identities would be averse to (Vampires averse to garlic and sunlight, etc). They tend to cite all of these things as "evidence" of the reality of their identities.
If the motive behind adopting these identities is dysphoria brought on by an alienating and toxic culture, it stands to reason that the things these people will refer to as proof of their condition are all negative experiences.
Quote from: Cainad on August 17, 2013, 09:41:38 PM
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 17, 2013, 06:52:49 PM
I honestly think that a lot of that dysphoria is about the world being a bad place. It creates a lot of tension in most people, and I think a lot of young people react to the tension by feeling that the thing that is wrong is THEM, their body or even their very existence, rather than recognizing that they are all right and it's the entire rest of the world that is wrong.
Which, really, in so many ways, is a very reasonable conclusion to come to. "Wow, I am really uncomfortable with THE ENTIRE EVERYTHING. Obviously, the logical conclusion is that the problem is me, and not EVERYTHING ELSE".
But in this particular case, it actually IS that the entire society and the habitat we live in is fucked. So on that level, I can't totally blame anyone for not wanting to be human.
That seems reasonable, and it definitely helps explain why so many people who fall into that mindset usually express themselves in negative terms.
Almost every time I've seen someone identify as somehow other-than-human, they refer to personal experiences that are negative. Activities they can't do, things they can't eat, social situations that they can't adapt to, etc. A lot of the time it comes down to "I can't seem to relate to most people around me," which is of course a feature of our highly alienating contemporary culture. They develop all of these little aversions and stress reactions that fit the persona. Thing like Furries hissing or snarling like animals, or Otherkin reacting to things their fictional identities would be averse to (Vampires averse to garlic and sunlight, etc). They tend to cite all of these things as "evidence" of the reality of their identities.
If the motive behind adopting these identities is dysphoria brought on by an alienating and toxic culture, it stands to reason that the things these people will refer to as proof of their condition are all negative experiences.
Hmm, that is a really interesting observation, I bet you're right.
That's all based on anecdotal memories of various corners of the Internet I've been to, but I'm confident that actual research would verify it.
Hardly anyone who identifies as other-than-human talks about their cool cat abilities or majickal faerie powers. When people do identify as supernatural beings of any kind, claims to things like psychic empathy or psychic "sensitivity" seem to be common. The evidence for these claims very often comes in the form of describing incidents of emotional distress in situations where they didn't expect it.
These claims aren't unique to Otherkin, of course. We've all seen that shit on pagan forums everywhere, with the same special-snowflake mentality. However, pagany/majickal types are more likely to also make claims of actual powers or abilities. Seems to be a slightly different headspace that leads people to that kind of thinking.
Otherkin are losers. They don't identify with human society, so they piss and moan and feel all persecuted. Fuck that noise. There's no excuse I've heard so far to identify with human society, it's a fucked up boring abortion of a thing but pissing and moaning isn't the answer. Smashing things and roaring, like a demented primate is.
Quote from: Cainad on August 17, 2013, 09:41:38 PM
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 17, 2013, 06:52:49 PM
I honestly think that a lot of that dysphoria is about the world being a bad place. It creates a lot of tension in most people, and I think a lot of young people react to the tension by feeling that the thing that is wrong is THEM, their body or even their very existence, rather than recognizing that they are all right and it's the entire rest of the world that is wrong.
Which, really, in so many ways, is a very reasonable conclusion to come to. "Wow, I am really uncomfortable with THE ENTIRE EVERYTHING. Obviously, the logical conclusion is that the problem is me, and not EVERYTHING ELSE".
But in this particular case, it actually IS that the entire society and the habitat we live in is fucked. So on that level, I can't totally blame anyone for not wanting to be human.
That seems reasonable, and it definitely helps explain why so many people who fall into that mindset usually express themselves in negative terms.
Almost every time I've seen someone identify as somehow other-than-human, they refer to personal experiences that are negative. Activities they can't do, things they can't eat, social situations that they can't adapt to, etc. A lot of the time it comes down to "I can't seem to relate to most people around me," which is of course a feature of our highly alienating contemporary culture. They develop all of these little aversions and stress reactions that fit the persona. Thing like Furries hissing or snarling like animals, or Otherkin reacting to things their fictional identities would be averse to (Vampires averse to garlic and sunlight, etc). They tend to cite all of these things as "evidence" of the reality of their identities.
If the motive behind adopting these identities is dysphoria brought on by an alienating and toxic culture, it stands to reason that the things these people will refer to as proof of their condition are all negative experiences.
Really interesting observations by you both. I get the feeling, looking at the way the world is and wondering "am
I the crazy one?"/"how can I possibly fit in here"/or a slight sense of detachment from the people around me. But I don't try to detach myself from it even further, and realize not everything is horrible, and make the best of a bad situation - to sum it up briefly and roughly. I have enough anxiety - I don't need to isolate myself further.
Going back to the Juggalo/Otherkin comparison - The Juggalos seem to collectivize their weird to have FUN with like-minded people - and, as I believe was mentioned, seem to be pretty welcoming to anyone looking to have a GOOD TIME (side note: I saw a small group of Juggalos at a Furthur (surviving members of Grateful Dead) show in Maine not to long ago. It made me pretty happy).
Otherkin seem to strive to separate themselves from everyone else - isolation is their crowning achievement. Sure, they may form online and RL communities, but those seem to be focused on (don't have much experience with RL, but the online seem to behave that way) why they can't socialize with "normal" people or can't participate in normal activities (eg., the toddler/dog thing). And as CD touched upon, focus on whose "identity" is more really real, and if you don't eat up someone else's lines, then you're out.
More isolation and hierarchy. It seems they WANT to wallow in the negativity. I sometimes find it hard to relate to others and/or I get quite a bit of social anxiety, but so I try to find like-minded people to hang out with or at least try to find common grounds with the people around me to maximize the fun.
The world is a messed up place, and I do have a hard time dealing with it sometimes, but retreat doesn't sound like the solution here/
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 19, 2013, 02:26:44 PM
Otherkin are losers. They don't identify with human society, so they piss and moan and feel all persecuted. Fuck that noise. There's no excuse I've heard so far to identify with human society, it's a fucked up boring abortion of a thing but pissing and moaning isn't the answer. Smashing things and roaring, like a demented primate is.
Hahahahaha, fuck yeah.
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on August 19, 2013, 05:37:36 PM
Quote from: Cainad on August 17, 2013, 09:41:38 PM
Quote from: TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR GENITALS on August 17, 2013, 06:52:49 PM
I honestly think that a lot of that dysphoria is about the world being a bad place. It creates a lot of tension in most people, and I think a lot of young people react to the tension by feeling that the thing that is wrong is THEM, their body or even their very existence, rather than recognizing that they are all right and it's the entire rest of the world that is wrong.
Which, really, in so many ways, is a very reasonable conclusion to come to. "Wow, I am really uncomfortable with THE ENTIRE EVERYTHING. Obviously, the logical conclusion is that the problem is me, and not EVERYTHING ELSE".
But in this particular case, it actually IS that the entire society and the habitat we live in is fucked. So on that level, I can't totally blame anyone for not wanting to be human.
That seems reasonable, and it definitely helps explain why so many people who fall into that mindset usually express themselves in negative terms.
Almost every time I've seen someone identify as somehow other-than-human, they refer to personal experiences that are negative. Activities they can't do, things they can't eat, social situations that they can't adapt to, etc. A lot of the time it comes down to "I can't seem to relate to most people around me," which is of course a feature of our highly alienating contemporary culture. They develop all of these little aversions and stress reactions that fit the persona. Thing like Furries hissing or snarling like animals, or Otherkin reacting to things their fictional identities would be averse to (Vampires averse to garlic and sunlight, etc). They tend to cite all of these things as "evidence" of the reality of their identities.
If the motive behind adopting these identities is dysphoria brought on by an alienating and toxic culture, it stands to reason that the things these people will refer to as proof of their condition are all negative experiences.
Really interesting observations by you both. I get the feeling, looking at the way the world is and wondering "am I the crazy one?"/"how can I possibly fit in here"/or a slight sense of detachment from the people around me. But I don't try to detach myself from it even further, and realize not everything is horrible, and make the best of a bad situation - to sum it up briefly and roughly. I have enough anxiety - I don't need to isolate myself further.
Going back to the Juggalo/Otherkin comparison - The Juggalos seem to collectivize their weird to have FUN with like-minded people - and, as I believe was mentioned, seem to be pretty welcoming to anyone looking to have a GOOD TIME (side note: I saw a small group of Juggalos at a Furthur (surviving members of Grateful Dead) show in Maine not to long ago. It made me pretty happy).
Otherkin seem to strive to separate themselves from everyone else - isolation is their crowning achievement. Sure, they may form online and RL communities, but those seem to be focused on (don't have much experience with RL, but the online seem to behave that way) why they can't socialize with "normal" people or can't participate in normal activities (eg., the toddler/dog thing). And as CD touched upon, focus on whose "identity" is more really real, and if you don't eat up someone else's lines, then you're out. More isolation and hierarchy. It seems they WANT to wallow in the negativity. I sometimes find it hard to relate to others and/or I get quite a bit of social anxiety, but so I try to find like-minded people to hang out with or at least try to find common grounds with the people around me to maximize the fun.
The world is a messed up place, and I do have a hard time dealing with it sometimes, but retreat doesn't sound like the solution here/
Well said, all.
The problem with retreating from the world is that a significant percentage of it is inside your head and wherever you go, there you are.
Having said that, there is nothing wrong with taking a break from the less pleasant sides of reality. If i may paraphrase you:
Maximize the fun not only in spite of the fact that everything is horrible, but because of it. The world is a really crappy place that sometimes seems actively fuck with you. Beat the world in the face with your joy and fun, even if it is just to be contrarian.
Quote from: trippinprincezz13 on August 19, 2013, 05:37:36 PM
The world is a messed up place, and I do have a hard time dealing with it sometimes, but retreat doesn't sound like the solution here/
Quite the opposite, in fact. Teh solution is always CHARGE!!!
If in doubt - Leeroy Jenkins.
Doubt is swiftly removed.
I appreciate that there is well-thought-out reasoning and understanding in this thread, but I fear it is leading the conversation away from the important lesson here. Furries and Otherkin exist to be shunned and hated. It's a natural process and therefore proper. Any time a human population reaches certain levels of tolerance and acceptance, it generates Otherkin spontaneously so society will have a suitable target for unreasonable hate. Do you know why the dynastic system broke down in Egypt? Well, they started worshipping people who thought they were birds and dogs, instead of hating them. It's all right there in the heiroglyphs.
Quote from: V3X on August 20, 2013, 12:38:53 AM
I appreciate that there is well-thought-out reasoning and understanding in this thread, but I fear it is leading the conversation away from the important lesson here. Furries and Otherkin exist to be shunned and hated. It's a natural process and therefore proper. Any time a human population reaches certain levels of tolerance and acceptance, it generates Otherkin spontaneously so society will have a suitable target for unreasonable hate. Do you know why the dynastic system broke down in Egypt? Well, they started worshipping people who thought they were birds and dogs, instead of hating them. It's all right there in the heiroglyphs.
Furries and Otherkin exist to exist, just like everyone else.
I just happen to hate them. Unfortunately, there are a large number of them in Tucson, though that should be hardly surprising, and I have known ONE (1) that I found to be a decent human being. The rest are the world's "nice guys". Which is to say that they aren't nice.
Being the underdog isn't an automatic ticket to decency. Underdogs can be complete shits, too.