:horrormirth:
Was there ever any doubt?
They were talking about going for 110, at one point.
This definitely isn't a win, any sentence is unnecessarily harsh after what he has already suffered, but it could have been much, much worse.
Yeah, what Cain said.
While better than I thought, I can't help but wonder if it's deliberate to allow for a more severe sentence for Assange or Snowden when they get their turn in the barrel. If they actually came out with a 100+ year sentence a lot of moderate pro-government people would probably reconsider their stance.
Quote from: Junkenstein on August 21, 2013, 07:16:50 PM
While better than I thought, I can't help but wonder if it's deliberate to allow for a more severe sentence for Assange or Snowden when they get their turn in the barrel. If they actually came out with a 100+ year sentence a lot of moderate pro-government people would probably reconsider their stance.
people keep saying that but I doubt it is true. I think they could publically crucify Manning or Assange and the moderate pro government people would say "well, that was the wrong thing to do, but what can I do? vote Republican?"
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/restore-united-states%E2%80%99-human-rights-record-and-grant-clemency-pvt-bradley-manning/L7zHZv4r
Because it won't do anything, but we're already on all the lists anyway so fuck it.
Quote from: Queen Gogira Pennyworth, BSW on August 21, 2013, 08:20:32 PM
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/restore-united-states%E2%80%99-human-rights-record-and-grant-clemency-pvt-bradley-manning/L7zHZv4r
Because it won't do anything, but we're already on all the lists anyway so fuck it.
That may be a required attitude to adopt. Convince people you're already on all the lists so why hide? Make sure your disappearance is noted.
I've got a strong gut reaction against doing that. I'd consider myself a relatively private person. However if I saw a list/obviously worrying document with my name on/in it, my first reaction would be to torrent the living fuck out of it and bail. Mainly to try and alert the rest of the names. I've accepted a degree of "I'm fucked" in regard to my internet browsing but the alternative of stopping entirely is not really an option if I wish to maintain employment anywhere really.
If I were a conspiracy nut, I'd say that the Internet was designed specifically to hook us all into thinking we were on the threshold of a Brave New World where Information was Free and the Internet would connect humanity all around the world and The Future had arrived, complete with Hero Hackers and Revolutions (which all seem to be falling apart).... just so we'd all be tied into a system where we can easily be monitored, spied on, cataloged and made a part of Big Data.
But, nah, that's just the paranoid conspiracy bit of my brain running amok.
Right?
Went to a yelling thing yesterday and accidentally my face on camera. Oh well.
Quote from: Bebek Sincap Ratatosk on August 22, 2013, 12:38:15 PM
If I were a conspiracy nut, I'd say that the Internet was designed specifically to hook us all into thinking we were on the threshold of a Brave New World where Information was Free and the Internet would connect humanity all around the world and The Future had arrived, complete with Hero Hackers and Revolutions (which all seem to be falling apart).... just so we'd all be tied into a system where we can easily be monitored, spied on, cataloged and made a part of Big Data.
But, nah, that's just the paranoid conspiracy bit of my brain running amok.
Right?
Right conclusion, wrong logic.
Always remember this concept: Function Creep.
We are the children of the Cold War and Hippies, schooled by the internet.
The Cold War taught Daddy State how to spy as a boss.
Hippie Mommy taught us to be trusting and distracted.
The Internet allowed everyone to share their everything.
Naturally, Hippie Mommy did so enthousiastically and we followed the only adult rolemodel that was present during our youth.
And then the Internet function-creeped and Daddy State noticed.
So did his children with another mother, our stepsiblings, corporations.
This is where we are now, I wonder what will happen in the next chapter of this great adventure?
Any thoughts by anyone on Manning coming out as trans?
Quote from: Pergamos on August 22, 2013, 10:43:02 PM
Any thoughts by anyone on Manning coming out as trans?
My first thought was that's the excuse they're going to use for his 'accidental' death in prison. Unsympathetic shivving from fellow inmates. Probably being paranoid, though.
My thoughts in rapid succession were ordered thus-
This is not newsworthy.
Good for her.
The repubs are gonna love this.
This is still not newsworthy.
Quote from: Pergamos on August 22, 2013, 10:43:02 PM
Any thoughts by anyone on Manning coming out as trans?
When you've got a long stretch of nothing, for doing nothing wrong, at the taxpayers expense, you may as well make the most of it and be true to yourself.
/
:hosrie:
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 22, 2013, 10:53:16 PM
My thoughts in rapid succession were ordered thus-
This is not newsworthy.
Good for her.
The repubs are gonna love this.
This is still not newsworthy.
I have to disagree about it being newsworthy. She's a heroine and coming out as trans is a big deal for someone. A big life event in a heroine's life is newsworthy.
Quote from: Pergamos on August 22, 2013, 11:07:55 PM
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 22, 2013, 10:53:16 PM
My thoughts in rapid succession were ordered thus-
This is not newsworthy.
Good for her.
The repubs are gonna love this.
This is still not newsworthy.
I have to disagree about it being newsworthy. She's a heroine and coming out as trans is a big deal for someone. A big life event in a heroine's life is newsworthy.
Perhaps. But her gender identity is not relevant to her deeds and a 35 year sentence is also a pretty big more relevant life event. Not to trivialize her coming out of course.
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 22, 2013, 11:16:29 PM
Quote from: Pergamos on August 22, 2013, 11:07:55 PM
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 22, 2013, 10:53:16 PM
My thoughts in rapid succession were ordered thus-
This is not newsworthy.
Good for her.
The repubs are gonna love this.
This is still not newsworthy.
I have to disagree about it being newsworthy. She's a heroine and coming out as trans is a big deal for someone. A big life event in a heroine's life is newsworthy.
Perhaps. But her gender identity is not relevant to her deeds and a 35 year sentence is also a pretty big more relevant life event. Not to trivialize her coming out of course.
I have to disagree about it being relevant as well. Part of why she did what she did was because she felt alienated by the military, part of why she felt alienated was because military culture is not accepting of trans people. That alienation was part of what gave her the courage to do what was right.
Ok i can see that. I guess the related thought behind it that i couldnt quite put my finger on was why is the media reporting on it? I suppose its probably because the sentencing just happened. Would the media report the same if she came out a year from now? Or are they doing it because its more coverage on the news item du jour?
My personal thoughts are that she was actually known as possibly being trans by the trans community for a bloody long time(I've known about it for a while), and now that the trial is over, she's got the opportunity to deal with this as a separate issue rather than having the whistleblowing and gender identity stuff conflated as being a cause and effect thing or whatever other eejitry people may come out with.
I don't know if the 2 are related, I'll take Chelsea Manning's statements about this as they come.
However I do think that those who have supported Pfc Manning before her coming out are probably going to be more aware of trans* issues, and that can only be a good thing. Today was a total "do not read the comments" day tho.
Completely beside the point, but she makes way more sense as a woman, somehow.
Quote from: Pergamos on August 22, 2013, 10:43:02 PM
Any thoughts by anyone on Manning coming out as trans?
If people keep making a huge deal out of it I might have a stroke.
Common courtesy: If a person decides they prefer a different name, and different pronouns, it is polite to use those. Nothing else has changed, and the proceedings of her transition are none of our business.
Quote from: FOCUS GROUP RAGEMONKEY OF HATE HATE HATE on August 23, 2013, 12:29:04 AM
Completely beside the point, but she makes way more sense as a woman, somehow.
Yeah i wouldnt have known but i was also unsurprised.
Chelsea is a lot better than Brianna.
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 22, 2013, 10:53:16 PM
My thoughts in rapid succession were ordered thus-
This is not newsworthy.
Good for her.
The repubs are gonna love this.
This is still not newsworthy.
This is pretty much it.
Except that it IS newsworthy. SHOULD it be newsworthy? No. But it is.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on August 23, 2013, 04:07:36 AM
Quote from: Aloha Ackbar on August 22, 2013, 10:53:16 PM
My thoughts in rapid succession were ordered thus-
This is not newsworthy.
Good for her.
The repubs are gonna love this.
This is still not newsworthy.
This is pretty much it.
Except that it IS newsworthy. SHOULD it be newsworthy? No. But it is.
Well, like I said, I figure it's probably due to the fact that the trial just ended. If she came out a year from now when everyone forgot her, it would barely be mentioned, if at all.