A thought that I had walking back from dropping the kids off at school: the way we've talked about the BIP cells has frequently left me a little confused, because my brain likes running everything through the spatial relations filter and that doesn't work if every thought you have is a wall. So, this is how I simplified it for myself.
East Wall: Intellectual Pursuits
West Wall: Artistic Pursuits
North Wall: Interaction with Reality (the Bars)
South Wall: Identity
Floor: Physical Capabilities
Ceiling: Morality
When others look into your cell, they see the South Wall. This is populated with your wardrobe (uniforms) and your mirror (sense of self). You look at others through the North Wall, which would be totally open if not for the bars coming from the adjoining walls. If you are hiding in your closet, it's even harder to see clearly.
The East and West Walls expand with the more stuff you put in them. A cell with large West and East Walls can be pretty comfortable, but sometimes the extra real estate comes with extra Bars.
The Floor determines how well you can do the things you want to do. It's genetic disorders, eyesight, your diet, an amputated finger, strong lungs. Some people have very tidy, sturdy floors that make it easy to do the things they want to do. Some people have floors with the concrete all ripped up. A lot of us have junk on the floor that we trip on from time to time.
The Ceiling is what keeps us in line. Some people set their ceilings up so low that they're always bumping their heads (too restrictive). Some people try to tear apart their ceiling and end up with nothing but a view of the terrible stars in the screaming void.
Going to chew on this a little. I like the idea of carving up the cell into blocks of limitations. The view in/out seems important. The people peering in won't always just see the south wall, but probably glimpse the floor and ceiling too.
There's probably a lot of crossover (I.e- A physical ability/disability becoming a part of your identity would be quite common)
More words to come, but want to think a bit more first.
It's good to see a new perspective on this! Careful you don't make the metaphor too literal though, or you'll start coming to conclusions that make no sense whatsoever.
Related, from like 5 years ago: www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,17054.msg556425.html
holy shit what am I still doing here
I totally cannot view the BIP materially at all. It works for me purely as the loosest kind of metaphor, where I'm like, OK, the bricks are my experiences and the bars are my beliefs, or vise-versa or something.
I like it as a metaphor, it works quite well (hence the "Common Walls" extension of the metaphor), but I can't visualize it any more solidly than that.
I think it's really interesting how different individuals have such differing mental processes. I am typically very visual/relational in my thinking, but as soon as you start giving me visuals like "North Wall: Interaction with Reality" I'm like WHOA TOO MUCH CANNOT DO.
I actually have a similar difficulty with Freud and his Id, Ego and Superego, presented as if they reside as discrete entities in different locations of the self. I don't know why, I'm just like whoa, this does not work for me at all.
It is odd because I can construct quite complex articles in my mind, and see how things physically fit together. But give me ideas that map intangible attributes to tangible locations, and it breaks down completely. I can't do feng shui for the same reason. I'm like, a mirror there does WHAT?
Ohhh I think I just realized why pagan and occult systems give me the shits.
So basically, any model of the mind that tries to describe itself physically, or even in discreet parts, is no good for you?
Sorry if that's putting words in your mouth.
What models do work for you, in that you can make sense of them?
Mine has "DUMB" on one wall and "GREED" on the other. The end wall is made out of "UNTHINKING BOORISHNESS", and the bars are named things like "MEAN STREAK" and "KNEE JERK RESPONSE" and "TRUISMS" and "I SHOULDA SAID 'I LOVE YOU' TO HER".
And the toilet next to the bunk? ANYONE WANNA HEAR ABOUT THE TOILET?
Um... what's in the toilet?
Yeah, I kind of need to know now.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 25, 2013, 05:11:30 PM
So basically, any model of the mind that tries to describe itself physically, or even in discreet parts, is no good for you?
Sorry if that's putting words in your mouth.
What models do work for you, in that you can make sense of them?
A model that attempts to overlay actual (but non-tangible) function onto material parts does not work for me. A model that describes actual physical/tangible function I have no problems with.
For example, say you wanted to describe a flavor as a chair. You say, "The legs are four main flavors: salty, sweet, bitter, and sour. These support the seat, which is a rich earthy note..." and so on. At this point you have completely lost me, because I am trying to map flavors to a fucking chair.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 25, 2013, 05:15:14 PM
Um... what's in the toilet?
Why, that is THE STAINLESS STEEL BOWL OF MISSED OPPORTUNITY! And inside - because these prisons take FOREVER to get a plumber in to unclog that shit - is ~ 35-40 years of things I COULDA done and things I SHOULDA done IF ONLY I'D HAD MY FUCKING HEAD ON STRAIGHT AT THE TIME. I could tell you loads and loads of stories, but you already know what I mean, right? The girl that got away, the job you wanted, the thing you wanted to do with your life, but you HAD TO BE REALISTIC.
The difference is, in MY cell, they don't go down the drain. They just pile up til the bowl looks like an ice cream sundae, one of those 6 scoop monsters, and those missed opportunities just STARE AT ME every day.
Whoa. That wasn't what I expected. I'm going to have to think about that for a bit.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 25, 2013, 05:11:30 PM
So basically, any model of the mind that tries to describe itself physically, or even in discreet parts, is no good for you?
Sorry if that's putting words in your mouth.
What models do work for you, in that you can make sense of them?
A model that attempts to overlay actual (but non-tangible) function onto material parts does not work for me. A model that describes actual physical/tangible function I have no problems with.
For example, say you wanted to describe a flavor as a chair. You say, "The legs are four main flavors: salty, sweet, bitter, and sour. These support the seat, which is a rich earthy note..." and so on. At this point you have completely lost me, because I am trying to map flavors to a fucking chair.
See, I'm the other way around. The bit LMNO was warning about. I'll take the map and make all manner of connections until there is no resemblance to the territory anymore.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 25, 2013, 05:20:06 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 25, 2013, 05:15:14 PM
Um... what's in the toilet?
Why, that is THE STAINLESS STEEL BOWL OF MISSED OPPORTUNITY! And inside - because these prisons take FOREVER to get a plumber in to unclog that shit - is ~ 35-40 years of things I COULDA done and things I SHOULDA done IF ONLY I'D HAD MY FUCKING HEAD ON STRAIGHT AT THE TIME. I could tell you loads and loads of stories, but you already know what I mean, right? The girl that got away, the job you wanted, the thing you wanted to do with your life, but you HAD TO BE REALISTIC.
The difference is, in MY cell, they don't go down the drain. They just pile up til the bowl looks like an ice cream sundae, one of those 6 scoop monsters, and those missed opportunities just STARE AT ME every day.
:eek:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 25, 2013, 05:22:05 PM
Whoa. That wasn't what I expected. I'm going to have to think about that for a bit.
Well, it's just an analogy. None of you bastards want to hear about my REAL toilet.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 05:22:47 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 25, 2013, 05:20:06 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 25, 2013, 05:15:14 PM
Um... what's in the toilet?
Why, that is THE STAINLESS STEEL BOWL OF MISSED OPPORTUNITY! And inside - because these prisons take FOREVER to get a plumber in to unclog that shit - is ~ 35-40 years of things I COULDA done and things I SHOULDA done IF ONLY I'D HAD MY FUCKING HEAD ON STRAIGHT AT THE TIME. I could tell you loads and loads of stories, but you already know what I mean, right? The girl that got away, the job you wanted, the thing you wanted to do with your life, but you HAD TO BE REALISTIC.
The difference is, in MY cell, they don't go down the drain. They just pile up til the bowl looks like an ice cream sundae, one of those 6 scoop monsters, and those missed opportunities just STARE AT ME every day.
:eek:
Wait til you hear about THE LUMPY COT MATTRESS OF CRINGETASTIC MOMENTS.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 25, 2013, 05:22:09 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 05:18:07 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 25, 2013, 05:11:30 PM
So basically, any model of the mind that tries to describe itself physically, or even in discreet parts, is no good for you?
Sorry if that's putting words in your mouth.
What models do work for you, in that you can make sense of them?
A model that attempts to overlay actual (but non-tangible) function onto material parts does not work for me. A model that describes actual physical/tangible function I have no problems with.
For example, say you wanted to describe a flavor as a chair. You say, "The legs are four main flavors: salty, sweet, bitter, and sour. These support the seat, which is a rich earthy note..." and so on. At this point you have completely lost me, because I am trying to map flavors to a fucking chair.
See, I'm the other way around. The bit LMNO was warning about. I'll take the map and make all manner of connections until there is no resemblance to the territory anymore.
That probably actually makes you very good when it comes to dealing with uncertainties. I imagine it is especially helpful in both engineering and maintenance, where you need to be able to deal with a lot of "what ifs".
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 25, 2013, 05:23:49 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 05:22:47 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 25, 2013, 05:20:06 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 25, 2013, 05:15:14 PM
Um... what's in the toilet?
Why, that is THE STAINLESS STEEL BOWL OF MISSED OPPORTUNITY! And inside - because these prisons take FOREVER to get a plumber in to unclog that shit - is ~ 35-40 years of things I COULDA done and things I SHOULDA done IF ONLY I'D HAD MY FUCKING HEAD ON STRAIGHT AT THE TIME. I could tell you loads and loads of stories, but you already know what I mean, right? The girl that got away, the job you wanted, the thing you wanted to do with your life, but you HAD TO BE REALISTIC.
The difference is, in MY cell, they don't go down the drain. They just pile up til the bowl looks like an ice cream sundae, one of those 6 scoop monsters, and those missed opportunities just STARE AT ME every day.
:eek:
Wait til you hear about THE LUMPY COT MATTRESS OF CRINGETASTIC MOMENTS.
OH GOD. :scared: I have enough of those of my own.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 25, 2013, 05:20:06 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on September 25, 2013, 05:15:14 PM
Um... what's in the toilet?
Why, that is THE STAINLESS STEEL BOWL OF MISSED OPPORTUNITY! And inside - because these prisons take FOREVER to get a plumber in to unclog that shit - is ~ 35-40 years of things I COULDA done and things I SHOULDA done IF ONLY I'D HAD MY FUCKING HEAD ON STRAIGHT AT THE TIME. I could tell you loads and loads of stories, but you already know what I mean, right? The girl that got away, the job you wanted, the thing you wanted to do with your life, but you HAD TO BE REALISTIC.
The difference is, in MY cell, they don't go down the drain. They just pile up til the bowl looks like an ice cream sundae, one of those 6 scoop monsters, and those missed opportunities just STARE AT ME every day.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :horrormirth:
Hang on, how do you brew prison wine with a full shitter?
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 25, 2013, 05:35:14 PM
Hang on, how do you brew prison wine with a full shitter?
hoohoohaha.
Tell you when I get back. I have to go to Keelin's school. The vice-principal has made an appointment, where he expects be to be surprised and outraged at her behavior. Back soon.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 25, 2013, 05:46:11 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 25, 2013, 05:35:14 PM
Hang on, how do you brew prison wine with a full shitter?
hoohoohaha.
Tell you when I get back. I have to go to Keelin's school. The vice-principal has made an appointment, where he expects be to be surprised and outraged at her behavior. Back soon.
:lulz: Oh this'll be good. I imagine you have a similar relationship with Keelin's school administration as I have with my kids'; which is that after the first couple of times they really try to avoid ever calling me in.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 05:52:41 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 25, 2013, 05:46:11 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 25, 2013, 05:35:14 PM
Hang on, how do you brew prison wine with a full shitter?
hoohoohaha.
Tell you when I get back. I have to go to Keelin's school. The vice-principal has made an appointment, where he expects be to be surprised and outraged at her behavior. Back soon.
:lulz: Oh this'll be good. I imagine you have a similar relationship with Keelin's school administration as I have with my kids'; which is that after the first couple of times they really try to avoid ever calling me in.
I thought that would be the case. 15 minutes meeting, + 10 minute round trip. She was sick this month, and missed quite a bit of time (9 days in the 1st 30 CALENDAR days of school). All absences excused...The VP though it was bullshit that it was even an issue, given that she had a medical excuse (Dr's note) for the time. However, state law requires that she miss no more than 10% of a semester, and she's sitting right at 10% if she doesn't miss another day.
If she misses more days, it's POSSIBLE (though not likely) that she could lose credit for the semester.
He did say that he considered her a role model for the younger kids at the school, based on her behavior (biped) and her habits (straight edge without the label, basically).
So, pleasant surprises all around.
for me, the guts of the black iron prison metaphor is that it's about recognizing your self limitations.
a big part of that is identity, this narrow idea of who you are
the perceived-self carries heavy baggage like tastes, preferences, your precious little aversions
and those things lead to you omitting things from your thoughts
what I like best about the metaphor is that it puts the self in control. You are responsible for all that stuff in your cell - you can't blame the system or your peers or your poor upbringing for those limitations, you made them yourself. And if you want to get past them, you can't wait for other things to change, or for somebody to save you, or for your prison term to end --- you have to grab a sledgehammer and bust out of the cell.
I think it's a useful exercise to think about your own "cell" and what kinds of things in your control are acting as limitations. But there's probably no common diagram or floormap - in my own prison breaks, sometimes the cell walls are tastes, sometimes they are laziness, sometimes they are ego... every prison is unique, and every prison break is unique.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 25, 2013, 06:36:25 PM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 25, 2013, 05:52:41 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 25, 2013, 05:46:11 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on September 25, 2013, 05:35:14 PM
Hang on, how do you brew prison wine with a full shitter?
hoohoohaha.
Tell you when I get back. I have to go to Keelin's school. The vice-principal has made an appointment, where he expects be to be surprised and outraged at her behavior. Back soon.
:lulz: Oh this'll be good. I imagine you have a similar relationship with Keelin's school administration as I have with my kids'; which is that after the first couple of times they really try to avoid ever calling me in.
I thought that would be the case. 15 minutes meeting, + 10 minute round trip. She was sick this month, and missed quite a bit of time (9 days in the 1st 30 CALENDAR days of school). All absences excused...The VP though it was bullshit that it was even an issue, given that she had a medical excuse (Dr's note) for the time. However, state law requires that she miss no more than 10% of a semester, and she's sitting right at 10% if she doesn't miss another day.
If she misses more days, it's POSSIBLE (though not likely) that she could lose credit for the semester.
He did say that he considered her a role model for the younger kids at the school, based on her behavior (biped) and her habits (straight edge without the label, basically).
So, pleasant surprises all around.
Aw that's awesome!
I hope she either doesn't miss any more or they let her do a make-up project or two.
For me, rather than "bars" or "bricks", I tend to see each unwanted issue, as it were, as a room in my prison. Like, oh crap, I recently found a room labeled Control Freak! Do I want to break out of that completely? Actually it seems like it's part of the reason I'm able to balance so much at once. Maybe I want to look at the parts of the room that I like, such as "scheduling time for homework" and "always knowing what's in my bank account", and repurpose that room as my Resource Management room, throwing out the crap like "obsessing about what I did wrong in my relationship" and "trying to make him like me" and then integrating it back into my prison suite.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 26, 2013, 01:27:24 AM
For me, rather than "bars" or "bricks", I tend to see each unwanted issue, as it were, as a room in my prison. Like, oh crap, I recently found a room labeled Control Freak! Do I want to break out of that completely? Actually it seems like it's part of the reason I'm able to balance so much at once. Maybe I want to look at the parts of the room that I like, such as "scheduling time for homework" and "always knowing what's in my bank account", and repurpose that room as my Resource Management room, throwing out the crap like "obsessing about what I did wrong in my relationship" and "trying to make him like me" and then integrating it back into my prison suite.
Multiple rooms for a prisoner?
Sounds like you're SOFT ON CRIME and don't believe in GETTING TOUGH with these criminals.
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on September 26, 2013, 03:32:00 AM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 26, 2013, 01:27:24 AM
For me, rather than "bars" or "bricks", I tend to see each unwanted issue, as it were, as a room in my prison. Like, oh crap, I recently found a room labeled Control Freak! Do I want to break out of that completely? Actually it seems like it's part of the reason I'm able to balance so much at once. Maybe I want to look at the parts of the room that I like, such as "scheduling time for homework" and "always knowing what's in my bank account", and repurpose that room as my Resource Management room, throwing out the crap like "obsessing about what I did wrong in my relationship" and "trying to make him like me" and then integrating it back into my prison suite.
Multiple rooms for a prisoner?
Sounds like you're SOFT ON CRIME and don't believe in GETTING TOUGH with these criminals.
Yeah the metaphor starts to kind of break down there. Maybe it's not so much a prison as maybe a hostage situation.
My cell is HUGE.
Ocean on each side, the Rio Grande to the South, and some iron curtain nation to the North.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 26, 2013, 03:54:05 AM
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on September 26, 2013, 03:32:00 AM
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 26, 2013, 01:27:24 AM
For me, rather than "bars" or "bricks", I tend to see each unwanted issue, as it were, as a room in my prison. Like, oh crap, I recently found a room labeled Control Freak! Do I want to break out of that completely? Actually it seems like it's part of the reason I'm able to balance so much at once. Maybe I want to look at the parts of the room that I like, such as "scheduling time for homework" and "always knowing what's in my bank account", and repurpose that room as my Resource Management room, throwing out the crap like "obsessing about what I did wrong in my relationship" and "trying to make him like me" and then integrating it back into my prison suite.
Multiple rooms for a prisoner?
Sounds like you're SOFT ON CRIME and don't believe in GETTING TOUGH with these criminals.
Yeah the metaphor starts to kind of break down there. Maybe it's not so much a prison as maybe a hostage situation.
Possibly. Or, the metaphor is good and I was just being a tipsy asshat last night. :lulz:
Actually, the hostage situation is an interesting one. Where you are the hostagetaker and your personality/behavioural patterns/maybe more is made up of the victims. The place the hostage situation is taking place would be the physical limitations to your senses. Then a microscope is a window allowing you to look into a place you can't be.
Also, Narcissism = Stockholm Syndrome.
Speaking of narcissism and Stockholm Syndrome, I found Alone's Abusive Boyfriend (http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2011/04/the_abusive_boyfriend.html) metaphor to be very insightful.
Given the context of this thread, I probably spoiled the ending, but it's a very good read anyway.
My cell is a concentration camp made out of bouncy castles. Every time I try to dig a tunnel to escape, the shovel boings up and smacks me in the face but I gotta keep trying.
This went in unexpected directions. :lulz:
Quote from: :regret: on September 26, 2013, 02:12:15 PM
Actually, the hostage situation is an interesting one. Where you are the hostagetaker and your personality/behavioural patterns/maybe more is made up of the victims. The place the hostage situation is taking place would be the physical limitations to your senses. Then a microscope is a window allowing you to look into a place you can't be.
Yeah, I definitely see that as a potentially useful metaphor.
Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 26, 2013, 04:00:32 PM
Quote from: :regret: on September 26, 2013, 02:12:15 PM
Actually, the hostage situation is an interesting one. Where you are the hostagetaker and your personality/behavioural patterns/maybe more is made up of the victims. The place the hostage situation is taking place would be the physical limitations to your senses. Then a microscope is a window allowing you to look into a place you can't be.
Yeah, I definitely see that as a potentially useful metaphor.
Gah! I should stop starting sentences with "Actually," I'm pissing me off.