Principia Discordia

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Quote from: Cain on September 30, 2013, 07:17:51 PM
I'm calling this early, but I'm calling it.

There are completely no incentives for anyone to stop this.  The baggers get to show how TUFF and PURELY IDEOLOGICAL they are in face of the Kenyan Lenin/Hitler-in-Chief.  Meanwhile, Obama gets to show the teabaggers as irresponsible morons.

It's win/win for every national-stage politician.  Sure, it fucks over a bunch of people who, you know, depend on government services and stuff, but who cares about them?

Yeah, that does make an unfortunate amount of sense.

Small price for freedumb.

Sounds lulzy as fuck. So in real terms what happens next? End times?  :tinfoilhat:

Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on September 30, 2013, 08:15:08 PM
Sounds lulzy as fuck. So in real terms what happens next? End times?  :tinfoilhat:

America continues to insist that it's the best country in the world because it's America, even while Americans are tearing it apart because they're butthurt that the president is black.

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If government shuts down:

1. Stock markets will plunge (well, dip, really. Everybody knows this is just for show and they're not going to go all broke over it).
2. Food stamps will not be sent out.
3. Mail will not be delivered (maybe).
4. Social Security checks may be withheld.
5. Government offices will not be open.
6. Medicare payments will not be made.
7. "Obamacare" will be on indefinite hold.

So, basically, it sounds like the Tea Party has found a way to implement their Ultimate Strategy without passing a single law.

It is amazing to me that Republicans are actually willing to do something that will even further weaken their party just to prevent poor people from having healthcare.

Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 30, 2013, 10:09:12 PM
It is amazing to me that Republicans are actually willing to do something that will even further weaken their party just to prevent poor people from having healthcare.

Well, Teabaggers are whiny bitches by nature, and their whole reason for existing is because of Obama.

Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 30, 2013, 10:09:12 PM
It is amazing to me that Republicans are actually willing to do something that will even further weaken their party just to prevent poor people from having healthcare.

I gotta ask, Nigel...At what point were you expecting rational behavior out of these whackjobs?

A lot of people will not get paychecks.  Fewer people with disposable income to inject into local economies.  Sounds like a winning strategy to me.

Yeeaah. That's what I thought, Cain. Thanks for your two cents.

Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 30, 2013, 10:41:34 PM
A lot of people will not get paychecks.  Fewer people with disposable income to inject into local economies.  Sounds like a winning strategy to me.

It is, if you're a drunk-ass congressman.

Not so much if you're, say, a single parent.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on September 30, 2013, 10:32:49 PM

Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on September 30, 2013, 10:09:12 PM
It is amazing to me that Republicans are actually willing to do something that will even further weaken their party just to prevent poor people from having healthcare.

I gotta ask, Nigel...At what point were you expecting rational behavior out of these whackjobs?

I keep hoping that at least a sense of self-preservation will kick in.

LOOKS LIKE NOPE.

I really don't understand how it could have ever come to this. Not the stupid hostage situation that gets wheeled out every six months or so with debt ceilings and new tax years.

But a system evolved and was built up around this, allowing this... Supporting it, putting the infrastructure in place that it could happen. What the hell happened?

Quote from: Faust on September 30, 2013, 11:00:56 PM
I really don't understand how it could have ever come to this. Not the stupid hostage situation that gets wheeled out every six months or so with debt ceilings and new tax years.

But a system evolved and was built up around this, allowing this... Supporting it, putting the infrastructure in place that it could happen. What the hell happened?

HERPADERP happened.  It's the product that does exactly what it says on the label.

Quote from: Faust on September 30, 2013, 11:00:56 PM
I really don't understand how it could have ever come to this. Not the stupid hostage situation that gets wheeled out every six months or so with debt ceilings and new tax years.

But a system evolved and was built up around this, allowing this... Supporting it, putting the infrastructure in place that it could happen. What the hell happened?

Well, we'll find out eventually. Either it's a giant unplanned clusterfuck, or someone has something to gain.

I haven't been watching the news, have they let it shut down?

Quote from: Sad Sack on September 30, 2013, 11:16:13 PM
I haven't been watching the news, have they let it shut down?

I think they're still in the dick-measuring stage. Not quite to the flounce stage yet. I think the deadline is midnight tonight?

It's pretty much impossible at this point for the shutdown to be avoided.  Now it's just a matter of bow long they'll let it go.

Quote from: Be Kind, Please RWHNd on September 30, 2013, 11:37:55 PM
It's pretty much impossible at this point for the shutdown to be avoided.  Now it's just a matter of bow long they'll let it go.

Yeah, that will make things interesting.

The problem is Congressional redistricting laws. It's legal (and standard practice -- on both sides of the isle) to draw district boundaries in such a way that the majority party can count on pretty much permanent majority status. This starts at the state level, where the maps are actually drawn, which in turn filters up to the national level from there. You can (mostly) predict with reasonable certainty which direction any given district is going to go with their vote. The only offices that can't be predicted are executive offices, because everyone votes for those offices regardless of their district. This is why Presidential elections are the only elections anyone gives any shits about anymore, and gubernatorial elections to a lesser degree.

If Congressional districts were required by law to be something resembling a geometric shape, then the people who are elected in those districts would be forced to compromise in order to keep getting reelected. But since the districts are drawn in a way that reflects increasing political polarization, compromise (especially in Washington) becomes dangerous for reelection prospects. It's safer to let people starve and die of treatable illness, because those people aren't in your district.

The problem is exacerbated by the downward spiral this puts on the people most effected by these policies, because the less you feel your government cares about you, the less likely you are to participate in it. So you have entire towns now who more or less sit out every election, further marginalizing them in electoral and governing processes. Add to that a media culture of xenophobia, "stranger danger," barely disguised racism, and misguided nationalism, and you produce exactly what we have in Washington: a bunch of big assholes elected by smaller assholes with a tangible mandate to become even bigger assholes.

The historical approaches to changing government's behavior -- community organizing -- is nullified by these electoral districts, too. If you manage to pull off an electoral upset, your district will be split, reshaped, or even completely eliminated by people who fear for their own reelection. What might be a sizable community of people united in their desire to change the government will be fragmented and tacked on to larger communities so their votes can be diluted and ignored. And these maps are being drawn constantly. I think they used to do it more or less along with the census, but now they're revised every year so as to keep up with shifting demographics and population densities in almost real time.

At least in some states, these maps are subject to the approval of the Justice Department before they can go into effect. LOL NEVERMIND, Supreme Court 2013 took that away, too.

Quote from: Faust on September 30, 2013, 11:00:56 PM
I really don't understand how it could have ever come to this. Not the stupid hostage situation that gets wheeled out every six months or so with debt ceilings and new tax years.

But a system evolved and was built up around this, allowing this... Supporting it, putting the infrastructure in place that it could happen. What the hell happened?

The executive branch interpreted Congress as damage and routed around it. The NSA spies on everything, Federal Reserve writes banks blank checks to manipulate markets, the CIA assassinates American teenagers or whoever else they feel like, local police departments turn into standing armies, the military drops bombs wherever it wants - and none of that is even remotely accountable to Congress. Congress no longer needs to do anything ever to ensure important people get a steady stream of money and power, except to be controversial to generate funding for news stations and permanent campaign consultants.

The fascist wet dream is to have leaders who can make Difficult Decisions without having to compromise their principles for electability. We have that now, and our elected leaders are exactly as ineffectual as they have to be to keep the machine spinning.

Cain hid some good summaries back in the Random News Stories thread:

Quote from: Cain on August 21, 2013, 11:53:28 AM
And some Mike Lofgren and Joseph Britt, both former aides to Republican senators, on the American "deep state".

Lofgren:

QuoteYour posts go some way in explaining the current political situation, but by no means do they go the whole way. A more complete explanation has to acknowledge the paradox of the contemporary American state. On the procedural level that the public can see, Congress is hopelessly gridlocked in the worst manner since the 1850s; that is true. The objective of the GOP is, obviously, to render the executive branch powerless, at least until a Republican president is elected (and voter suppression laws in the GOP-controlled states are clearly intended to accomplish that result). As a consequence, Obama cannot get anything done; he cannot even get the most innocuous appointees in office.

Yet he can assassinate American citizens without due processes (Holder's sophistry to the contrary, judicial process is due process); can detain prisoners indefinitely without charge; conduct surveillance on the American people without judicial warrant; and engage in unprecedented -- at least since the McCarthy era -- witch hunts against federal employees (the so-called insider threat program). At home, this it is characterized by massive displays of intimidating force by militarized federal law enforcement agencies and their willing handmaidens at the state and local level. Abroad, Obama can start wars at will and pretty much engage in any other activity whatever without so much as a by-your-leave from Congress, to include just recently forcing down a plane containing a head of state. And not a peep from congressional Republicans, with the exception of an ineffectual gadfly like Rand Paul. Democrats, with the exception of a few like Ron Wyden, are not troubled, either -- even to the extent of permitting obvious perjured congressional testimony by certain executive branch officials.

Clearly there is government, and then there is government. The former is the tip of the iceberg that the public who watches C-SPAN sees daily and which is theoretically controllable via elections. The subsurface part is the Deep State, which operates on its own compass heading regardless of who is formally in power. The Deep State is a hybrid of national security and law enforcement agencies, key nodes of the judiciary (like FISC, the Eastern District of Virginia, and the Southern District of Manhattan); cleared contractors, Silicon Valley (whose cooperation is critical), and Wall Street.

This combination of procedural impotence on the one hand and unaccountable government by fiat on the other is clearly paradoxical, but any honest observer of the American state must attempt to come to grips with it. I will note in conclusion that in order for the Senate to pass major "social" legislation like immigration reform, it was necessary to grant an additional $38-billion tribute to Deep State elements, i.e., military and homeland security contractors. Clearly the GOP wanted it, but the Democrats didn't object; the $38 billion had been an internal "wish list" of the Deep State node called the Department of Homeland Security.

And Britt:

QuoteFirst:  with respect to how the federal government functions, the level of continuity over the last dozen years or so doesn't get nearly enough attention.  In the Bush as in the Obama administration, Executive Branch agencies had little policy autonomy -- except for the security services, DoD and the intelligence agencies, who operated with little oversight even from within the administration in spite of major policy failures.

Republicans in Congress didn't defend the Bush administration so much as they repeated verbatim what they were told to say on national security affairs.  Meanwhile, other federal agencies dealt with a White House hypersensitive about political message discipline by undertaking as few potentially controversial initiatives as possible -- something that hasn't changed all that much under Barack Obama.

Second:  the absolute primacy of the permanent campaign industry in the policy making process gets rather taken for granted by many commentators.   Organized interest groups have traditionally been thought to exercise outsized influence within the two national parties, especially the Democratic Party.  One thing that's changed in recent years is the emergence of the people who do campaigns for a living as a powerful and effectively organized interest group themselves.

It is the pollsters, "strategists," and other campaign operatives, after all,  who are the chief beneficiaries of the continual fundraising that Senators and Congressmen now do.  Not only do these electioneering hands now work on campaign business full-time, but they have also gotten used to a standard of living requiring high and predictable levels of income.

The influence of campaign primacy on policy flows outward from Capitol Hill and the White House, enveloping agencies engaged in work that might offend any monied interest.  The military and intelligence agencies tend not to do work of this kind; their budgets, increased substantially after 9/11, tend therefore to receive little scrutiny, and their senior officials are normally treated with deference.

Is campaign primacy worse than it has ever been?  I'd say it is.  The very transparency celebrated by some in the media (because, among other things, it takes some of the hard work out of political reporting) makes it harder to do politically controversial business out of the view of rent-seeking monied interests.  Advocacy of causes with no potential to support the permanent campaign infrastructure -- from reducing unemployment to preparing for climate change to adhering to regular order on appropriations bills in Congress -- is effectively deterred.  The influence of campaign primacy on tax policy can't be overestimated.

The root cause of the latest crisis in Washington is that, for the party that came up short in the last election, the campaign never ended.  There is nothing but the campaign for Congressional Republicans -- and mostly for Democrats on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue as well, with the difference that they feel they have to at least look as if they want the government to function.

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Quote from: Cain on October 01, 2013, 05:44:39 AM
Here we GOOOOOOOOOOO

QuoteThe US government has begun a partial shutdown after the Republican-led House of Representatives refused to approve a budget for next year.

A midnight deadline passed without agreement despite an 11th-hour appeal by President Barack Obama.

More than 700,000 US government workers face unpaid leave with no guarantee of back pay once the deadlock is over.

Republicans have insisted on delaying President Obama's health care reforms as a condition for passing the budget.

With less than one hour to go before midnight, the Republican-led House called for a bipartisan committee with the Senate to try to thrash out a deal, but Democrats said it was too late to avoid a shutdown.

The White House's budget office began notifying federal agencies to begin an "orderly shutdown" as midnight approached.

The Senate is to meet again at 09:30 (13:30 GMT) on Tuesday, Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said.

Yep, now the fun part begins.

I feel like it's a holiday of some kind.

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Do they stop killing smudgy people until the government comes back online?

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This is the New American Way of handling policy disputes. Fuck Democracy, throw a tantrum.

The thing is, if they break rank and actually tried to find a middle ground, they'd be eaten alive by their own base. Or at least, I'm sure that's what they think. Ideological purity is more important than engaging with the issues and understanding the consequences of their actions!

Or... more likely, like Cain says, they understand the consequences, they just don't have any real motivation to care on either side.

YOU GUYS ARE PUTTING CURIOSITY TO SLEEP ON MARS AND CLOSING THE GRAND CANYON UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT REOPENS? WAY TO BE OVERDRAMATIC ABOUT IT.

Quote from: Cain on October 01, 2013, 07:05:23 AM
the ACA (which I still think is shitty legislation, btw.  Just not for the reasons they offer),

I'd love to hear your opinion on it!

I bet you've posted it somewhere around here already----but if you could point me in the right direction, it'd save you typing  :p

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I suspect that in order to save face, the GOP could throw Ted Cruz under the bus. He's already set himself up to be the patsy by looking like a nut job.

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Quote from: Cain on October 01, 2013, 03:44:29 PM

Quote from: Twigel on October 01, 2013, 03:43:05 PM
I suspect that in order to save face, the GOP could throw Ted Cruz under the bus. He's already set himself up to be the patsy by looking like a nut job.

Not to mention he's Canadian.

:lulz: yep

I went onto the market hoping to pick up some bargains that I can buy on the dip and sell off after this mess stabilises except:

THERE WAS NO DIP. The market literally does not care that this happened, it's business as usual. Just shows that the government has no impact whatsoever on big business.

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Quote from: Faust on October 01, 2013, 04:48:01 PM
I went onto the market hoping to pick up some bargains that I can buy on the dip and sell off after this mess stabilises except:

THERE WAS NO DIP. The market literally does not care that this happened, it's business as usual. Just shows that the government has no impact whatsoever on big business.

Or you weren't the only person with that idea, and the net result of people jumping in to pick up some discounted stocks effectively smoothed over the uncertainty dip. But you're right, the market does perceive this as business as usual. There won't be any significant losses unless it starts looking like it's going to last a while and directly affect things like international trade to a painful extent.

Also, it occurs to me that the last time the government shut down was 1995. The following year, the GOP took control of both houses of Congress with their hilarious "Contract with America" platform. This is a moment in time that the GOP has been trying to reproduce ever since. Maybe their calculus with the government shutdown this year plays into this larger strategy of trying to re-enact that takeover. They're probably betting that people will see them as the saviors of fiscal sanity in Washington, willing to sacrifice whole governments in the pursuit of that sanity. They're hoping this will lead to their being awarded  control of the Senate in next year's midterm elections.

Normally, I would say there's not much hope of that happening. But given Obama's singular adeptness at losing the game with a winning hand, I don't think anything is out of the question.

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Quote from: Cain on October 01, 2013, 03:38:38 PM
Would probably take more effort to search than to actually spell out my objections.

In essence, the single-payer option was cheaper, gave greater consumer choice and was what the majority of people wanted.  It's much better for small businesses as well, and it wouldn't penalize people with insane fines for not being covered.

ACA is a handout to Obama's political backers.

Yes, basically.

Oregon is investigating a single-payer option. Well, it basically already has one, but it's looking at the viability of expanding it to cover everyone.

In the meantime, I got my letter yesterday, I qualify for fast-track enrollment and coverage starts January first. Boy is my doctor going to be surprised to see me! It's been a while. Dear doctor, guess what body part I don't have anymore?

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Quote from: Cain on October 01, 2013, 05:08:37 PM
I think your timeline is a bit screwed up there: Contract with America was in 1994.  Not that I think it undermines your key point.  2013 looks a hell of a lot like 1994, only with shinier gadgets, and a far worse economy.  I'm only surprised we don't have rumours about Soviet troops planning to invade via Mexico (https://www.google.co.uk/#psj=1&q=soviet+troops+in+mexico) again, though I've not listened to Alex Jones lately (just checking, it seems there was such a flap in 2010-11).

There were plenty of shutdowns before the infamous 1995 one, but it's worth noting that they took place in a far less bitter and partisan political environment, with stronger economic conditions.

Point on the timeline. It was a midterm like now. 96 was a Presidential election year. I wish I could say I had faith that cooler heads will prevail, but the only thing that can possibly overcome gridlock like this is disdain for the government that somehow overpowers our disdain for each other.

Quote from: Cain on October 01, 2013, 05:14:24 PM
You should email him that, then turn up with a crutch, eyepatch and a baggy shirt (so you can hide an arm behind your back) and make him guess.

:lulz: You're on a roll lately.

http://usgovernment.statuspage.io/

:lulz:

Quote from: Pæs on October 02, 2013, 12:22:26 AM
http://usgovernment.statuspage.io/

:lulz: :lol: :lulz:

considering the two man con....

can this be a way to turn public opinion against the checks and balances style of three powers system by showing an example of its flaws ???

"we'd be better off having an autocrat" and all that ???

please, someone reassure me to put away my tinfoil hat and tell me this isnt the near future

Quote from: The Johnny on October 02, 2013, 08:28:20 AM

considering the two man con....

can this be a way to turn public opinion against the checks and balances style of three powers system by showing an example of its flaws ???

"we'd be better off having an autocrat" and all that ???

please, someone reassure me to put away my tinfoil hat and tell me this isnt the near future

Considering both Obama and Bush have been disparaged as autocrats...

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I remember people calling Bush Generalissimo, and Baggers seem to to be under the impression that Obama literally wants to be king. People here don't want that sort of thing if only because we know it might not be our party's guy next time. No we're interested in temporary sweeping powers that... Oh. Heh.

Quote from: The Johnny on October 02, 2013, 08:28:20 AM

considering the two man con....

can this be a way to turn public opinion against the checks and balances style of three powers system by showing an example of its flaws ???

"we'd be better off having an autocrat" and all that ???

please, someone reassure me to put away my tinfoil hat and tell me this isnt the near future

My gut feeling is that we have another 7 years or so before that becomes a real concern.

A bit of a breakdown of what will be closed and what won't: http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/09/politics/government-shutdown-impact/index.html?

Had a moment this morning where I remembered that my research is NSF funded. Found out shortly after that the grant had been already disbursed before this went down, so my paycheck is not affected. But one of my colleagues will not be able to submit her Doctoral Dissertation Improvement Grant paperwork probably, since it's due next week. And a faculty member will have to take the place of a USGS worker at a professional meeting this weekend, because he can't attend. It's also a good thing I didn't plan my Smithsonian trip for any time soon.

We're mostly doing okay, though, compared to others. With the sequester and this shutdown, many biologists have lost an entire field season. (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/10/what-does-a-federal-shutdown-mean-for-conservation-and-ag-science/) And if you don't have the money to pay your grad students and postdocs, they don't tend to stick around.

THEY TURNED OFF THE PANDA CAMS

OH GOD WHY

AMERICA IS ROONT.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/30/news/panda-cam-national-zoo/index.html

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Quote from: Cain on October 02, 2013, 09:44:56 PM
Obama just raised the stakes

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24375591

QuoteUS President Barack Obama has warned Wall Street should be concerned that a conservative faction of Republicans are willing to allow the country to default on its debt.

He said he would not hold budget talks with Republicans until they allow the US government to reopen and pass a bill to raise the US borrowing limit.

Emphasis mine.

Well, why not?  It's already an observable fact that "cooperating" with the GOP means "Giving them everything they demand, for nothing in exchange".  If the strategy of being reasonable gets you walked on, change your strategy.

In addition, the shutdown is fucking the GOP up the ass.  They need to find a way out, and why should Obama let them out for free?

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Quote from: Cain on October 02, 2013, 09:50:21 PM
Oh yeah, now is the perfect time to extract major concessions from them.

It's just I'm sad that I won't get to see the GOP's strained rationalization for why causing the US to default on its debt does not lead to lasting prosperity.  I've been waiting years for that to happen.

They haven't actually got one.

And my guess is that The Smiler will end up letting them off lightly.  They both have the same bosses, after all.

Interesting:

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/143-year-old-law-has-lawmakers-treading-gingerly-during-shutdown-8C11319714

Quote from: Cain on October 02, 2013, 09:44:56 PM
Obama just raised the stakes

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24375591

QuoteUS President Barack Obama has warned Wall Street should be concerned that a conservative faction of Republicans are willing to allow the country to default on its debt.

He said he would not hold budget talks with Republicans until they allow the US government to reopen and pass a bill to raise the US borrowing limit.

Emphasis mine.

:lulz: I gotta respect that.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 02, 2013, 10:01:57 PM
Interesting:

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/143-year-old-law-has-lawmakers-treading-gingerly-during-shutdown-8C11319714

Did not know about that one, thanks Rog.

Quote from: Cain on October 02, 2013, 08:02:10 PM
The US does not have a monopoly on wingnuts.  Alas (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100238487/us-government-shutdown-barack-obama-looks-like-a-bitter-petty-and-partisan-president/):

QuoteThe American Left's hatred for all things conservative has been on full display in Washington in recent days, with the White House and its allies in Congress heaving with anger and indignation over mounting opposition to the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, and growing calls to defund it.

Which is, of course, why 72% of Americans blame Republicans for, and oppose, the government shutdown.

I'm thinking that the throw Cruz under the bus scenario is getting more likely.

Let alone that most Americans approve of "Obamacare" when you break it down into its individual provisions, regardless of political alignment.

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 01:59:16 AM
Let alone that most Americans approve of "Obamacare" when you break it down into its individual provisions, regardless of political alignment.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jimmy-kimmel-asks-people-which-they-prefer-the-affordable-care-act-or-obamacare/

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the informative level of America.

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 03:32:01 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the informative level of America.

Hello!  It's the INFORMATION AGE.  Not the ACCURATE INFORMATION AGE.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 03, 2013, 03:33:23 AM

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 03:32:01 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the informative level of America.

Hello!  It's the INFORMATION AGE.  Not the ACCURATE INFORMATION AGE.

I think we shot past the information age and straight into the noise age. Perhaps the answer to the Drake Equation is that after a certain point of technological advancement an alien species will maintain their radio communication, but that communication drowns itself out into indistinguishable nonsense.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 03, 2013, 03:33:23 AM

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 03:32:01 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the informative level of America.

Hello!  It's the INFORMATION AGE.  Not the ACCURATE INFORMATION AGE.

I think you just made a new T-Shirt.

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 03:41:50 AM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 03, 2013, 03:33:23 AM

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 03:32:01 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the informative level of America.

Hello!  It's the INFORMATION AGE.  Not the ACCURATE INFORMATION AGE.

I think you just made a new T-Shirt.

Have at it.   :lulz:

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This is not going to be my century.

Quote from: Kai on October 04, 2013, 02:43:55 AM
This is not going to be my century.

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/dracolupus/stop_zpsc273f48b.jpg)

Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 04, 2013, 03:07:04 AM

Quote from: Kai on October 04, 2013, 02:43:55 AM
This is not going to be my century.

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/dracolupus/stop_zpsc273f48b.jpg)

:lulz:

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 03, 2013, 03:33:23 AM

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 03, 2013, 03:32:01 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the informative level of America.

Hello!  It's the INFORMATION AGE.  Not the ACCURATE INFORMATION AGE.

:lulz:

The main problem that I see there is the grotesquely partisan posturing of the media. It's actually pretty challenging for most Americans to find accurate information. Hell, we're all pretty good and digging for the truth, but even so, it's pretty damn obscured.

Quote from: Net on October 04, 2013, 03:56:43 AM

Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 04, 2013, 03:07:04 AM

Quote from: Kai on October 04, 2013, 02:43:55 AM
This is not going to be my century.

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa66/dracolupus/stop_zpsc273f48b.jpg)

:lulz:

Brit propaganda seen through They Live sunglasses. :thanks:

And then, inexplicably, there was this: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/09/30/five-reasons-americans-already-love-obamacare-plus-one-reason-why-theyre-gonna/

Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 04, 2013, 04:04:57 AM
And then, inexplicably, there was this: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/09/30/five-reasons-americans-already-love-obamacare-plus-one-reason-why-theyre-gonna/

This is surprisingly nonpartisan, considering the source.

Maybe the Right is actually getting ready to save face by Ted Cruz sacrificial offering. http://guardianlv.com/2013/10/republican-party-loses-even-fox-news-host-brian-kilmeade/   <---and Norquist

In order for a species to survive (ie, the Republican party), undesireable traits (ie Baggers) must be eaten before they can reproduce.

Nah. I think they got 'em a token librul.

Quote from: stelz on October 04, 2013, 04:13:07 AM
Nah. I think they got 'em a token librul.

But the word is out on the right frequency.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like ACA either on the grounds that I didn't like the bill that MITT ROMNEY (as my governor at the time) signed off on, that being that we have to buy something by law when I think it should be completely socialized like every other developed country does, but at the end of the day, people aren't draining tax dollars with emergency room costs that they can't cover and would have been cheaper with preventative medicine. Seriously, PPACA is a win-win for everyone and I can't think of a reason that capitalists wouldn't accept it as compulsory purchasing and socialists as well, at least everyone's covered sort of compromise.

The whole thing is retarded and smacks of butthurt since a Republican governor signed off on the test run to begin with. A Republican governor, I might add, ran against Obama on a platform that basically disavowed his one useful contribution to my state.

My brother and I were talking about it. He likes the it scales with income idea, and everyone is covered. Him being more libertarian than me of the sorts threw me off a bit. I find it hard to believe fox news did this article.  We're both social libertarians. He just tends to be more conservative on government spending than me.

Is this one of those moments the GOP has to suck it up, and let liburall america win?

Quote from: Reverend What's His Bear on October 04, 2013, 05:30:37 AM
My brother and I were talking about it. He likes the it scales with income idea, and everyone is covered. Him being more libertarian than me of the sorts. I find it hard to believe fox news did this article.

I'm thinking more and more that they realize that public opinion is against them and they have to damage control for 2014.

That's a hell of a lot of damage control, though, since public opinion is clearly against them. Americans may forget the small things but brinkmanship on the border of "well shit, our country may default on debts" is not exactly a small thing.

I think that Cain is right in the idea that people who got elected in Bagger constituencies will survive, but I think at this point the GOP as a whole has shot themselves in the foot, whilst stepping on the average American. The hardliners will back up their guy, but damned if the moderates will vote for him.

How long do you think the GOP will last as a running party? Do you think you'll ever see the Liberal party ever come back in your lifetime?

Quote from: Reverend What's His Bear on October 04, 2013, 05:41:27 AM
How long do you think the GOP will last as a running party? Do you think you'll ever see the Liberal party ever come back in your lifetime?

Things change. The Republicans used to be the liberal party. They rest a bit on their Lincoln laurels, but forget that 150 years ago, the Democratic party was made up of rabid slave owning white supremacists who were in favor of minimal government. The GOP will survive for a few decades at least. They must evolve or die. The problem with conservativism is that it lives in the past. It may well switch again. The GOP may become the liberal party. But ball is in their court. If they continue on their current path, they will surely wither.

My two lab partners are black. Black people, as far as "common sense" goes are usually socially progressive, unless it comes to religious things, but with no input from me, were talking positively about gay rights, and disparagingly about how the older generation feels about homosexuality. That's excellent, because all of the people of color I've interacted with have been on the same page, even though I hear tell that being a gay black man is hard as hell because of familial religious inclinations.

Hell, one of my coworkers is a black Baptist, and last week I was like, "holy shit, Pope Francis is at it again! Come look at this!" And we both had a brief moment of feeling out our religious sensibilities (she knows I'm a former Catholic, and for all intents non-Christian) and we both ended up agreeing that Francis was actually pretty damn cool for a pope, based on his apparent positions on homosexuality, atheism, abortion/birth-control and poverty, with an emphasis on poverty. I even said, I may have to tag this guy in my news filter, and she started chanting "DO IT!"

-

Quote from: Cain on October 04, 2013, 07:06:00 AM

QuoteI think it should be completely socialized like every other developed country does

Switzerland's not a developed country, by those standards.  In fact, the situation over here is similar to ACA.  You must have medical insurance, it is against the law to not have it.  You can be on the hook for anything from $300 a month to $2500, depending on what you want.

I'm lucky, in that I get in on a subsidised plan with the school, whereby the costs are around $80 a month, which means anything over $100 for the year I don't pay for.  But that's a special rate, normally reserved for foreign students and similar.

But then, Switzerland is run by giant banking corporations like UBS and Credit Suisse.  De facto, if not de jure.  And there's lots of money to be made in mandatory insurance.

That is the one major problem I have with PPACA, as well as the healthcare reform that Gov. Romney signed here and we've had in place before "Obamacare" for years. And, as I gather, the same problem that you have with it. Compulsory purchasing. Socialism, it is not. Thank you for that correction. In the future I will amend it to almost every developed country.

So what happens to people who can't purchase it? Denied treatment in emergency rooms? Charged with some kind of stupid crime?

Quote from: stelz on October 04, 2013, 07:33:24 AM
So what happens to people who can't purchase it? Denied treatment in emergency rooms? Charged with some kind of stupid crime?

If it's anything like the MA model, and I understand that it is, you get fined on tax day, but you have state sponsored options.

MA is 97% insured now, thanks to Romneycare (well, really, Kennedycare). Truth be told, I was uninsured even though I was eligible through work, until the law was passed. The law passing led to me going from 0 hours to at least this many hours, on request. Of course, the economy was more robust then, and I could request a 32 hour work week.

Twid,
20 hours now. BUT! Still insured.

I will also note that in 2008 my through work insurance was about $16 a week for health, dental and vision, and then suddenly when the baggers got into Congress it jumped up to $87. Also, suddenly I wasn't able to be officially at 32 hours anymore. Nor 25.

Twid,
paycheck is through Federal research grants.

-

-

Quote from: Cain on October 04, 2013, 08:09:58 AM

Quote from: stelz on October 04, 2013, 07:33:24 AM
So what happens to people who can't purchase it? Denied treatment in emergency rooms? Charged with some kind of stupid crime?

You have to have it.  If you don't purchase one, the Canton authorities will choose one for you, and take the money from you.  If the costs exceed 8% of your income, the government will subsidize it....eventually.  Once you fill out all the forms.

Ah, misunderstood to whom that was addressed.

Quote from: Cain on October 04, 2013, 08:14:51 AM
http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/10/01/on_the_eve_of_the_government_shutdown_the_pentagon_spent_billions_on_weapons

QuoteThe Pentagon pumped billions of dollars into contractors' bank accounts on the eve of the U.S. government's shutdown that saw 400,000 Defense Department employees furloughed.

All told, the Pentagon awarded 94 contracts yesterday evening on its annual end-of-the-fiscal-year spending spree, spending more than five billion dollars on everything from robot submarines to Finnish hand grenades and a radar base mounted on an offshore oil platform. To put things in perspective, the Pentagon gave out only 14 contracts on September 3, the first workday of the month.

Here are some of the more interesting purchases from Monday's dollar-dump.

Again, the only part of the government that seems to work, despite the crisis, is the Pentagon.  And I wont be the only one to take note of that.

Yep.

Finnish hand grenades bit too. And radar base.

Mandatory health insurance bad, military spending non-negotiable.

Quote from: Cain on September 30, 2013, 07:17:51 PM
I'm calling his ear, but I'm calling it.

Quote from: Faust on October 01, 2013, 04:48:01 PM
I went onto the market hoping to pick up some bargains that I can buy on the dip and sell off after this mess stabilises except:

THERE WAS NO DIP. The market literally does not care that this happened, it's business as usual. Just shows that the government has no impact whatsoever on big business.

Reply #98 on: October 04, 2013,  at 02:37:56 am
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php/topic,20156.msg1300417.html#msg1300417

What i did : at Safeway { the food store across J St from the bank)
I left the bank about 9:11 due to some delay in process
and the long story tellers were on thier way in:

found some "DATES" in BULK and deposited 6 {2 for each gal{teller @ bank
returned to bank to withdraw Oct $2bills {by the bundel {{aka strap {{SSbs
reduced Savings to Min {$2c) & tried to deactivate my online banking
LoC&LoCc 3:33&1/3 am pdT  ^ above pending ^
it took about an hour | as the 3 transactions were interupted often by
the long winded story tellers who arrived {in the AM hours ? Will i go2
Gold

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/07/20856722-obama-to-boehner-hold-a-vote-call-a-vote-right-now-lets-see-what-happens?lite

Obama taunts rubes.  Details at 11.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 07:09:53 PM
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/07/20856722-obama-to-boehner-hold-a-vote-call-a-vote-right-now-lets-see-what-happens?lite

Obama taunts rubes.  Details at 11.

:lulz: Damn.

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 12:42:23 AM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 07:09:53 PM
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/07/20856722-obama-to-boehner-hold-a-vote-call-a-vote-right-now-lets-see-what-happens?lite

Obama taunts rubes.  Details at 11.

:lulz: Damn.

Yeah, it's funny, but the fucking around has pretty much come to an end.  Both sides are playing chicken with default at stake.

And our means of government, at this time, cannot survive a default.  I'm thinking Argentina in 1947 or so.

It still stuns me to hear the Republicans say, "The shutdown is Obama's fault.  He made us do it."

Yeah, "Now look at what you made me do."

I was at the grocery store earlier and the woman bagging groceries was asking if we'd heard anything about the social security checks, because she heard from one of the other customers earlier that they were going to be delayed. Tried to steer her in the direction of "the hell is wrong with those assholes in Washington?" nicely, but she just wouldn't have any of it. The connection between the dipshits taking away her friend's SS check and the actual stress of the check going away just wasn't there. The fuck.

You know, I try not to get all SRSBSNS about politics anymore. Because, really, who isn't these days? And there's nothing really new to be said. All the talking points and various views are on full obscene display everywhere you look. Nobody's very far away from telling you what for at any given moment. Everyone, on all the sides, has decided who it is they're going to hate from now on, and that's that. Nobody's going to change their mind. Nobody's going to admit they are wrong or they went too far. And that is all as it should be, because something something Eris or Discord or something.

But it seems to me that there are millions of people who are missing what this whole "Government Shutdown" is actually about. Unlike in the 90's, when there was a serious dispute about funding and debts and programs, this present predicament in Washington has nothing to do with that. Now, you may get the idea from watching the Teevee machine that this is somehow about Obamacare. It is not. Obamacare is the smokescreen. What they are really fighting about right now is not how much money to give who or when, or how much to borrow. They are fighting about the very nature of the government process in DC.

First, the back-story.

You see, the hillbillies from the Tea Party done got some smarts. They found the biggest, most glaring weak spot in the whole idea of American democracy, and they are fucking that hole like the mad, cock-centric patriarchal dinosaurs that they are. They have discovered that you can use the built-in checks and balances of government to completely destroy the system. By throwing their awful wrenches into the works, they have exploited a fundamental flaw, and who knows what will happen if they get away with it.

According to the way things are supposed to work, Congress has the power to provide funding for the government. So, with the Tea Party wrapped around Congress like a hungry boa constrictor, it's reasonable to expect funding for some things to get dropped. That's just the nature of the beast. But here's the problem: they have latched on to Obamacare and demand its defunding in spite of the fact that laws providing funds for it have already been passed and enacted. This is not a line-item on this year's budget. It is already in motion and already funded.

They HATE Obamacare. They HATE HATE HATE it, for whatever reason, and that's their right. More power to 'em. They can go on with their bad teabagging selves and hate that shit until there's nothing left. Unfortunately for them, there's not enough of them in the right places to legally repeal it. They should know, because they've tried -- impotently -- over FORTY TIMES. And failed. In any normally functioning democracy, they'd notice at some point that they do not have the votes required to repeal it, and give up until the next election. But these assholes? NO. See, they cannot count, on account of being backwater ignoramuses who think public schools are the Devil and fancy book-learnin' is for sissies. So what do they do?

The Power Play:

They make repealing a law they do not have the power to repeal legally, a condition for doing their job, which is funding the government. "Either we get our way, or we're taking our ball and going home!" they shout like the sore-losing second-grade-level bullies they are. Nevermind democracy, nevermind being a "nation of laws." Just give us what we want, or we'll go WAA WAA WAA all over the poor, all over women, all over the gays, and all over the sick and the starving. They have been robbed of the whites-only, men-only America they grew up in, and they're willing to throw out the entire Government to get that back.

BUILD THE DANG FENCE!
DEPORT THE BROWNIES!
AMERICA FOR AMERICANS!
GIT YER GUVERMENT OFFA MY MEDICARE!

And if they succeed in this, they will set the precedent that you don't NEED votes to win a fight in government. You just have to YELL REALLY LOUD and STOMP YOUR FEET REAL HARD, and puff up like kids with mumps who are too poor to see a doctor. If you have enough votes to HALT something, it's the same thing as having enough to PASS something. And American government will become -- even more than it already is -- a playground where the super rich just stand in each other's way all the time to stop anything from ever getting done.

Idiots, the lot of them. And they don't care. They don't care how WRONG they are, as long as they're LOUDER. They don't care how laws are supposed to be passed. They'll wave their Chinese-manufactured flags and play their god-awful Country Music and puke "Love America Or Git Out" all over everything, but when it comes right down to it, they are threatened by democracy. They will cheat and lie to sidestep the legislative process whenever they can smell their own impending obsolescence. America is changing, and they're going to fight that change just like they always have. Just like they fought Abolition and Women's Suffrage; just like they fought (and continue to fight) Civil Rights. They don't know how to do anything but fight and spit and curse. Luckily, they don't HAVE TO know how to go extinct -- that will come to them naturally, but never soon enough.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 08, 2013, 12:43:43 AM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 12:42:23 AM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 07, 2013, 07:09:53 PM
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/07/20856722-obama-to-boehner-hold-a-vote-call-a-vote-right-now-lets-see-what-happens?lite

Obama taunts rubes.  Details at 11.

:lulz: Damn.

Yeah, it's funny, but the fucking around has pretty much come to an end.  Both sides are playing chicken with default at stake.

And our means of government, at this time, cannot survive a default.  I'm thinking Argentina in 1947 or so.

Yeah, I was thinking about that when I was walking to school yesterday. Everything seems normal now, day to day life hasn't changed, but behind the scenes things are already falling apart in an irreparable way that will take years, possibly decades to fix.  Each day that goes by breaks our fiscal infrastructure a little bit more, and we get that much closer to being catastrophic. It's a little like a tsunami, where right here in the middle of the ocean it isn't very noticeable, but the shoreline is years away and every day that goes by increases the order of magnitude. We already passed the magnitude at which we could have survived with trivial damage on Friday. Now it's a matter of waiting to see HOW fucked we're going to be.

This is a bad decade to have decided to become a scientist in America.

Please let me reprint this everywhere.

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 08, 2013, 05:59:27 PM
It still stuns me to hear the Republicans say, "The shutdown is Obama's fault.  He made us do it."

Yeah, "Now look at what you made me do."

"She made me hit her, officers".

That was brilliant, Vex!

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 06:43:45 PM
That was brilliant, Vex!

:thanks:

I hope it was as fun for you to write as it was for me to read.



You get  :mittens:

-

Quote from: Cain on October 08, 2013, 06:59:33 PM
According to the Not-Insane Daniel Larison of American Conservative:

QuoteOne of the new arguments that Republicans in Congress are floating is that breaching the debt ceiling won't result in default.

Or, as a White House aide masterfully put it, in 2004, "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

Unfortunately, what they will do, is in fact torpedo the global economy.  Larison continues:

QuoteNot only is this not true, but it is indefensibly reckless to pretend that the rest of the world will react to a failure to raise the debt ceiling this way. If they continue blithely blundering towards the possibility of default, they will receive and will deserve to receive the lion's share of blame for any costs that this pointless standoff has imposed on the country.

Which brings me back to my main point.  Even if Obama could, somehow, negotiatiate with the Teahadists, would he?  Would he fuck.  The polls show the Republicans are going to be blamed by the majority of the country for this crisis.  It will effectively crush the GOP reputation for fiscal responsibility for another generation, and cause battleground states to flee to the Democrats.

Even if he could stop this, Obama has no incentive to do so.

I love it when you talk sexy like that.

Srsly, as much as I really distrust and dislike Obama, there's no denying that at the very least he is a reasonably strong symbol of "Fuck the New Confederacy." I despise the NSA's tricks, and I am under no illusion that Obama's hands are clean in most of the shady shit that goes on. But at least -- at least -- he is the Smiler, where the Other Guys are grumpy old men who would do no better, AND they probably smell like cologne from the 1960s.

Seeing them happily paint themselves into this corner and then stand there jumping and yelling like its a victory for them is one of the few reasons why I'm happy to be in America right now. And living in a red state, no less. Watching this unfold first-hand.

That is the fascinating part of this whole trainwreck. They're willing to take the country down, and go down with it, in a tantrum over something they insist is fiscally a bad idea. Something that, even if it IS a bad idea, will not bankrupt the country and could simply be repealed. There is no logic.

"Obamacare The ACA will destroy the economy, so in order to stop that from happening, we will destroy the economy."




Edit: I'm gonna stop using the work "Obamacare", as it can be divisive.

-

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 08, 2013, 07:10:11 PM
"Obamacare The ACA will destroy the economy, so in order to stop that from happening, we will destroy the economy."




Edit: I'm gonna stop using the work "Obamacare", as it can be divisive.

The mentality worked great for us in Nam. Why wouldn't we keep a noble tradition?

-

Quote from: Cain on October 09, 2013, 08:15:26 AM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 07:09:05 PM
That is the fascinating part of this whole trainwreck. They're willing to take the country down, and go down with it, in a tantrum over something they insist is fiscally a bad idea. Something that, even if it IS a bad idea, will not bankrupt the country and could simply be repealed. There is no logic.

Also, in the longer term, making governance impossible should benefit the party that wants to reduce the size of government.  Creating the impression that "Congress can't do anything right" leads inevitably to "why have Congress at all?"  It sets a frame on events which invariably benefits the Libertarian position of having a government small enough to drown in a bath-tub.

However, that only works if the blame can be laid with Congress, or equally on both parties.  Which again is not the case here.

"Why have Congress at all?" could go the Libertarian way, or, if things get really uncomfortable, it could go in far more worrying directions.

-

Quote from: Cain on October 09, 2013, 09:44:07 PM
Well given the historical links between right-libertarians and other extreme right movements, the chances of it going that way are almost a certainty.

I've been saying this for a while.  Basically, we're staring down the barrel of flat-out authoritarianism, possibly in the form of a military coup or at least an "interruption of normal service".

Oct 2013: US defaults, nobody notices for a while.
Dec 2013: Hey, why are all the Xmas presents I was going to buy my kid this year so ungodly expensive?
Jan 2014: Holy shit, we can't buy milk and bread! WTF Guise?
Mar 2014: Fuck this, I'mma go burn down some shit.
Apr 2014: Oh yeah, they have tanks. Shit.

And so it was that the Great Experiment dissolved into what proved, ultimately, to be another painfully predictable Human pattern of violence, horror, and suppression. Thankfully, a full-scale World War was avoided, on account of the entire rest of the planet being doubled over with fits of uncontrollable laughter.

Seems people are getting salmonella from uninspected food (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/superbug/).

Only the beginning. Think I'll go outside and watch everything crumble.

-

So the present struggle isn't so much over whether we want a dictator, but rather what kind of dictator we want?

Jesus.

-

Quote from: stelz on October 10, 2013, 02:33:02 AM
Seems people are getting salmonella from uninspected food (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/superbug/).

Only the beginning. Think I'll go outside and watch everything crumble.

Just a side note; food is almost never inspected. The USDA hasn't had adequate inspectors for decades, so what happens instead is that there are outbreaks which spread unchecked until the CDC tracks down the source and issues a recall. Food safety has been on the decline for years now, and it's only getting worse, with deadlier strains of both viruses and bacteria emerging from feedlot conditions and farming practices. :)

Addressing that, of course, is part of the whole "sustainable farming" movement that people so like to pooh-pooh.

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 10, 2013, 05:21:29 PM

Quote from: stelz on October 10, 2013, 02:33:02 AM
Seems people are getting salmonella from uninspected food (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/superbug/).

Only the beginning. Think I'll go outside and watch everything crumble.

Just a side note; food is almost never inspected. The USDA hasn't had adequate inspectors for decades, so what happens instead is that there are outbreaks which spread unchecked until the CDC tracks down the source and issues a recall. Food safety has been on the decline for years now, and it's only getting worse, with deadlier strains of both viruses and bacteria emerging from feedlot conditions and farming practices. :)

Addressing that, of course, is part of the whole "sustainable farming" movement that people so like to pooh-pooh.

In this case, the number of inspectors was reduced from 80 to 1.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 10, 2013, 05:25:26 PM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 10, 2013, 05:21:29 PM

Quote from: stelz on October 10, 2013, 02:33:02 AM
Seems people are getting salmonella from uninspected food (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/superbug/).

Only the beginning. Think I'll go outside and watch everything crumble.

Just a side note; food is almost never inspected. The USDA hasn't had adequate inspectors for decades, so what happens instead is that there are outbreaks which spread unchecked until the CDC tracks down the source and issues a recall. Food safety has been on the decline for years now, and it's only getting worse, with deadlier strains of both viruses and bacteria emerging from feedlot conditions and farming practices. :)

Addressing that, of course, is part of the whole "sustainable farming" movement that people so like to pooh-pooh.

In this case, the number of inspectors was reduced from 80 to 1.

And that guy is basically the state-appointed scapegoat. Salmonella outbreak? INSPECTOR'S NOT DOING HIS JOB!  :horrormirth:

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 10, 2013, 05:38:07 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 10, 2013, 05:25:26 PM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 10, 2013, 05:21:29 PM

Quote from: stelz on October 10, 2013, 02:33:02 AM
Seems people are getting salmonella from uninspected food (http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/superbug/).

Only the beginning. Think I'll go outside and watch everything crumble.

Just a side note; food is almost never inspected. The USDA hasn't had adequate inspectors for decades, so what happens instead is that there are outbreaks which spread unchecked until the CDC tracks down the source and issues a recall. Food safety has been on the decline for years now, and it's only getting worse, with deadlier strains of both viruses and bacteria emerging from feedlot conditions and farming practices. :)

Addressing that, of course, is part of the whole "sustainable farming" movement that people so like to pooh-pooh.

In this case, the number of inspectors was reduced from 80 to 1.

And that guy is basically the state-appointed scapegoat. Salmonella outbreak? INSPECTOR'S NOT DOING HIS JOB!  :horrormirth:

According to the radio this morning, the other 79 inspectors assigned to Foster Farms were quietly returned to work.

Note that there was no mention of inspectors being returned to other corporate farms.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 10, 2013, 05:40:52 PM
Note that there was no mention of inspectors being returned to other corporate farms.

I'm sure they weren't.

-

The funny bit about this is that Obama has no say in anything yet, until a bill passes the house and the senate.  So if they were serious, they'd be talking to Reid.

-

Oh, Spectacle.  You so crazy.

Quote from: Cain on October 10, 2013, 08:41:08 PM
Yeah, but Republicans apparently skipped the civics class where it is explained the President is not a magickal Emperor who communes with the Sky God in order to rule with an iron fist.

I mean, going by their statements from the past decade, at the very least.

More like the past 148 years.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/10/10/2762451/boehner-adopts-heritage-koch-plan/

Partisan, yes, but some interesting links are included.

-

Quote from: Cain on October 11, 2013, 05:55:10 AM
BBC:

QuoteEarlier on Thursday, Democratic Senate leader Harry Reid said the Senate would "look at anything" the House sent to them, but they would not engage in negotiations with Republicans prior to reopening the government.

Reid hath spoken.

Quote from: Telarus on October 11, 2013, 12:56:43 AM
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/10/10/2762451/boehner-adopts-heritage-koch-plan/

Partisan, yes, but some interesting links are included.

Interesting.  So the idea is simply to extend the amount of time the shutdown can continue on for.  I suppose that allows for the painful consequences of government shutdown to continue, while avoiding a debt default which would entirely screw US industry and financial interests.

Reid's response suggests he is aware of this plan of action, incidentally.

Dammit, I wasn't looking at it that way.  Makes a lot of sense, though.

Bastards.

The project the husband has been working on got a huge offer for funding. Negotiations can't happen until certain paperwork is dealt with, for international sales. The people who determine what classification the device gets are all furloughed, so everything is on hold.

I know it's a tiny stupid thing, but the effects of this thing are a mountain of tiny bullshit things that we are all gonna drown under.

Quote from: Cain on October 10, 2013, 08:34:05 PM
Republicans have postponed Judgement Day, again:

QuoteUS Republicans have offered President Barack Obama a short-term debt limit increase to stave off default.

House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner said they would do so in exchange for negotiations with the White House to end a government shutdown that took effect on 1 October.

Republicans will meet Mr Obama, who is a Democrat, later on Thursday.

Officials have warned the US risks default on 17 October if the nation's borrowing limit is not increased.

Mr Boehner told reporters on Thursday: "What we want to do is to offer the president today the ability to move a temporary increase in the debt ceiling in agreement to go to conference on the budget for his willingness to sit down and discuss with us a way forward to reopen the government."

"It's time for leadership," the Ohio Republican said. "It's time for these negotiations and this conversation to begin."

Worker layoffs

A spokesman for Mr Boehner told media that the deal on the table ahead of Thursday afternoon's meeting was a "clean" increase of the debt limit, with no additional policies attached.

It would only last six weeks - until 22 November.

So, they want to destroy the economy just in time for Thanksgiving.

...
Can someone translate that underlined quote for me? Preferably to English, Dutch, or German.

Quote from: :regret: on October 11, 2013, 05:23:09 PM

Quote from: Cain on October 10, 2013, 08:34:05 PM
Republicans have postponed Judgement Day, again:

QuoteUS Republicans have offered President Barack Obama a short-term debt limit increase to stave off default.

House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner said they would do so in exchange for negotiations with the White House to end a government shutdown that took effect on 1 October.

Republicans will meet Mr Obama, who is a Democrat, later on Thursday.

Officials have warned the US risks default on 17 October if the nation's borrowing limit is not increased.

Mr Boehner told reporters on Thursday: "What we want to do is to offer the president today the ability to move a temporary increase in the debt ceiling in agreement to go to conference on the budget for his willingness to sit down and discuss with us a way forward to reopen the government."

"It's time for leadership," the Ohio Republican said. "It's time for these negotiations and this conversation to begin."

Worker layoffs

A spokesman for Mr Boehner told media that the deal on the table ahead of Thursday afternoon's meeting was a "clean" increase of the debt limit, with no additional policies attached.

It would only last six weeks - until 22 November.

So, they want to destroy the economy just in time for Thanksgiving.

...
Can someone translate that underlined quote for me? Preferably to English, Dutch, or German.

"Do exactly as you're told and nobody will get hurt."

Quote from: :regret: on October 11, 2013, 05:23:09 PM

Quote from: Cain on October 10, 2013, 08:34:05 PM
Republicans have postponed Judgement Day, again:

QuoteUS Republicans have offered President Barack Obama a short-term debt limit increase to stave off default.

House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner said they would do so in exchange for negotiations with the White House to end a government shutdown that took effect on 1 October.

Republicans will meet Mr Obama, who is a Democrat, later on Thursday.

Officials have warned the US risks default on 17 October if the nation's borrowing limit is not increased.

Mr Boehner told reporters on Thursday: "What we want to do is to offer the president today the ability to move a temporary increase in the debt ceiling in agreement to go to conference on the budget for his willingness to sit down and discuss with us a way forward to reopen the government."

"It's time for leadership," the Ohio Republican said. "It's time for these negotiations and this conversation to begin."

Worker layoffs

A spokesman for Mr Boehner told media that the deal on the table ahead of Thursday afternoon's meeting was a "clean" increase of the debt limit, with no additional policies attached.

It would only last six weeks - until 22 November.

So, they want to destroy the economy just in time for Thanksgiving.

...
Can someone translate that underlined quote for me? Preferably to English, Dutch, or German.

"We will stop crying and kicking the floor for a minute and talk, but we're not getting up and we're certainly not making any promises about not getting right back to pitching this fit if we hear one thing we don't like."

All the same, they blinked.

Oh, Rep Cruz, you make the news worth watching.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/11/20921171-his-poll-numbers-sinking-cruz-ramps-up-rhetoric?lite

ZALGO!
\
(http://markdavis.660amtheanswer.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/PHOTO_Cruz.jpg)

Quote
Mr Boehner told reporters on Thursday: "What we want to do is to offer the president today the ability to move a temporary increase in the debt ceiling in agreement to go to conference on the budget for his willingness to sit down and discuss with us a way forward to reopen the government."

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 11, 2013, 05:24:00 PM
"Do exactly as you're told and nobody will get hurt."

Heh, thanks. Yeah, I thought that was the underlying message.(because a politician was talking)

Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 11, 2013, 05:26:12 PM
"We will stop crying and kicking the floor for a minute and talk, but we're not getting up and we're certainly not making any promises about not getting right back to pitching this fit if we hear one thing we don't like."

Thanks.


I can understand parts of it so let me try again.

Quote"What we want to do is to offer the president today the ability to move a temporary increase in the debt ceiling

This is understandable, allow president to increase debt ceiling. gotcha.

Quotein agreement to

pointless interlude?

Quotego to conference on the budget for his willingness

Meet to talk about willingness budget, this implies that the president's willingness can be bought. but alright, understood.

Quoteto sit down and discuss with us a way forward to reopen the government."

Meet to make goverment open.

So. They will allow the president to increase the debt ceiling so they can borrow more money with which to bribe the president (during the first meeting) to allow the second meeting.
Politics is weird.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 11, 2013, 05:33:38 PM
All the same, they blinked.

All I can picture is Boehner, snotty nosed and disheveled on the floor in the rotunda.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbc-news/53254386/#53254386

:lulz:

Thread split.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 11, 2013, 05:40:06 PM
Oh, Rep Cruz, you make the news worth watching.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/11/20921171-his-poll-numbers-sinking-cruz-ramps-up-rhetoric?lite

ZALGO!
\
(http://markdavis.660amtheanswer.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/PHOTO_Cruz.jpg)

It's not working! DO IT HARDER!

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 10:10:41 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 11, 2013, 05:40:06 PM
Oh, Rep Cruz, you make the news worth watching.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/11/20921171-his-poll-numbers-sinking-cruz-ramps-up-rhetoric?lite

ZALGO!
\
(http://markdavis.660amtheanswer.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/PHOTO_Cruz.jpg)

It's not working! DO IT HARDER!

Funniest part was watching him call conservatives that disagreed with him "Obama operatives".

Every election cycle, I convince myself that the GOP cannot possibly get any more hilarious or put forward any more comically nutty candidates. Every election cycle, I am wrong.

Quote from: V3X on October 11, 2013, 10:36:11 PM
Every election cycle, I convince myself that the GOP cannot possibly get any more hilarious or put forward any more comically nutty candidates. Every election cycle, I am wrong.

Calling it: 

Next election will be Hillary Clinton vs whatever nutcase the GOP can cough up.  Probably not Cruz.  In any case, the republican will be spouting nonsense like a Whig in 1856, and will be treated accordingly.

MORE CRUZ HILARITY:

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/11/20924466-cruz-scoffs-at-nbcwsj-poll-thats-not-reflective-of-where-this-country-is?lite

QuoteTexas Sen. Ted Cruz on Friday sought to cast doubt on the results of a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal that reflected widespread public blame toward the GOP for the government shutdown and Cruz's own popularity suffering.

After delivering a hard-charging defense this morning of a strategy linking funding the government to defunding Obamacare -- a strategy spearheaded by Cruz, which many critics argue contributed to the ongoing shutdown -- Cruz quibbled with the methodology of the poll.

"If you seek out liberal Obama supporters and ask them their views, they're going to tell you they're liberal Obama supporters. That's not reflective of where this country is," Cruz told NBC News in an interview at the Capitol.

And we remember how right the teabaggers were about the polls in 2012, yes?   :lulz:

AWESOME SAUCE, RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY EYES.  NON-STOP.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 11, 2013, 10:38:00 PM

Quote from: V3X on October 11, 2013, 10:36:11 PM
Every election cycle, I convince myself that the GOP cannot possibly get any more hilarious or put forward any more comically nutty candidates. Every election cycle, I am wrong.

Calling it: 

Next election will be Hillary Clinton vs whatever nutcase the GOP can cough up.  Probably not Cruz.  In any case, the republican will be spouting nonsense like a Whig in 1856, and will be treated accordingly.

It's either that, or The Great Purge. I could see, at this point, the Republican party either fracturing and re-forming with a new platform that excludes the super-right-wing, or hemorrhaging members to the Working Families Party.

Cruz has stolen Michelle Bachman's place in my heart as My Very Favorite Politician.   :lol:

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 10:56:40 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 11, 2013, 10:38:00 PM

Quote from: V3X on October 11, 2013, 10:36:11 PM
Every election cycle, I convince myself that the GOP cannot possibly get any more hilarious or put forward any more comically nutty candidates. Every election cycle, I am wrong.

Calling it: 

Next election will be Hillary Clinton vs whatever nutcase the GOP can cough up.  Probably not Cruz.  In any case, the republican will be spouting nonsense like a Whig in 1856, and will be treated accordingly.

It's either that, or The Great Purge. I could see, at this point, the Republican party either fracturing and re-forming with a new platform that excludes the super-right-wing, or hemorrhaging members to the Working Families Party.

No way.  The WFP is wayyyyy too left for that sort of migration.  More likely, you will see the GOP base just stay at home.

"Millions of people are hurting because of Obamacare"  :?

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 11:00:16 PM
"Millions of people are hurting because of Obamacare"  :?

Well, the GOP didn't WANT to shut things down, but Obama made them do it.

They didn't mean it, baby.  They can change.  Just give them another chance.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 11, 2013, 10:59:31 PM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 10:56:40 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 11, 2013, 10:38:00 PM

Quote from: V3X on October 11, 2013, 10:36:11 PM
Every election cycle, I convince myself that the GOP cannot possibly get any more hilarious or put forward any more comically nutty candidates. Every election cycle, I am wrong.

Calling it: 

Next election will be Hillary Clinton vs whatever nutcase the GOP can cough up.  Probably not Cruz.  In any case, the republican will be spouting nonsense like a Whig in 1856, and will be treated accordingly.

It's either that, or The Great Purge. I could see, at this point, the Republican party either fracturing and re-forming with a new platform that excludes the super-right-wing, or hemorrhaging members to the Working Families Party.

No way.  The WFP is wayyyyy too left for that sort of migration.  More likely, you will see the GOP base just stay at home.

I don't know that much about them, to tell the truth, but I do know that even my annoying Republican Christian relatives are fed the fuck up with this shit.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 11, 2013, 11:01:18 PM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 11:00:16 PM
"Millions of people are hurting because of Obamacare"  :?

Well, the GOP didn't WANT to shut things down, but Obama made them do it.

They didn't mean it, baby.  They can change.  Just give them another chance.

Wow I didn't even pick up on the fact that he was trying to transfer blame for the shutdown onto the ACA.  :horrormirth:

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 11:03:33 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 11, 2013, 11:01:18 PM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 11:00:16 PM
"Millions of people are hurting because of Obamacare"  :?

Well, the GOP didn't WANT to shut things down, but Obama made them do it.

They didn't mean it, baby.  They can change.  Just give them another chance.

Wow I didn't even pick up on the fact that he was trying to transfer blame for the shutdown onto the ACA.  :horrormirth:

That's what it's been about all the time.

After 50+ attempts to repeal it, they just started sending up budgetary bills that didn't fund it.  The senate told them to blow it out their ass.  Nothing got done, government shut down on no money authorized to pay the bills.

If the dems back off on this one, the GOP will come roaring back like 1980.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 12, 2013, 12:08:22 AM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 11:03:33 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 11, 2013, 11:01:18 PM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 11:00:16 PM
"Millions of people are hurting because of Obamacare"  :?

Well, the GOP didn't WANT to shut things down, but Obama made them do it.

They didn't mean it, baby.  They can change.  Just give them another chance.

Wow I didn't even pick up on the fact that he was trying to transfer blame for the shutdown onto the ACA.  :horrormirth:

That's what it's been about all the time.

After 50+ attempts to repeal it, they just started sending up budgetary bills that didn't fund it.  The senate told them to blow it out their ass.  Nothing got done, government shut down on no money authorized to pay the bills.

If the dems back off on this one, the GOP will come roaring back like 1980.

I'm glad most people in the US seem not to be buying it.

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 12, 2013, 01:08:11 AM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 12, 2013, 12:08:22 AM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 11:03:33 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 11, 2013, 11:01:18 PM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 11:00:16 PM
"Millions of people are hurting because of Obamacare"  :?

Well, the GOP didn't WANT to shut things down, but Obama made them do it.

They didn't mean it, baby.  They can change.  Just give them another chance.

Wow I didn't even pick up on the fact that he was trying to transfer blame for the shutdown onto the ACA.  :horrormirth:

That's what it's been about all the time.

After 50+ attempts to repeal it, they just started sending up budgetary bills that didn't fund it.  The senate told them to blow it out their ass.  Nothing got done, government shut down on no money authorized to pay the bills.

If the dems back off on this one, the GOP will come roaring back like 1980.

I'm glad most people in the US seem not to be buying it.

Gingrich tried the same shit on Clinton.  All it takes is the president at the time to not blink.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 12, 2013, 02:52:55 AM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 12, 2013, 01:08:11 AM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 12, 2013, 12:08:22 AM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 11:03:33 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 11, 2013, 11:01:18 PM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 11:00:16 PM
"Millions of people are hurting because of Obamacare"  :?

Well, the GOP didn't WANT to shut things down, but Obama made them do it.

They didn't mean it, baby.  They can change.  Just give them another chance.

Wow I didn't even pick up on the fact that he was trying to transfer blame for the shutdown onto the ACA.  :horrormirth:

That's what it's been about all the time.

After 50+ attempts to repeal it, they just started sending up budgetary bills that didn't fund it.  The senate told them to blow it out their ass.  Nothing got done, government shut down on no money authorized to pay the bills.

If the dems back off on this one, the GOP will come roaring back like 1980.

I'm glad most people in the US seem not to be buying it.

Gingrich tried the same shit on Clinton.  All it takes is the president at the time to not blink.

Yeah, I don't think Obama's going to blink...

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 12, 2013, 02:56:44 AM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 12, 2013, 02:52:55 AM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 12, 2013, 01:08:11 AM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 12, 2013, 12:08:22 AM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 11:03:33 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 11, 2013, 11:01:18 PM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 11, 2013, 11:00:16 PM
"Millions of people are hurting because of Obamacare"  :?

Well, the GOP didn't WANT to shut things down, but Obama made them do it.

They didn't mean it, baby.  They can change.  Just give them another chance.

Wow I didn't even pick up on the fact that he was trying to transfer blame for the shutdown onto the ACA.  :horrormirth:

That's what it's been about all the time.

After 50+ attempts to repeal it, they just started sending up budgetary bills that didn't fund it.  The senate told them to blow it out their ass.  Nothing got done, government shut down on no money authorized to pay the bills.

If the dems back off on this one, the GOP will come roaring back like 1980.

I'm glad most people in the US seem not to be buying it.

Gingrich tried the same shit on Clinton.  All it takes is the president at the time to not blink.

Yeah, I don't think Obama's going to blink...

Nope.  The funniest bit is that, constitutionally-speaking, he has no say in any of this until the house and the senate can reach an agreement and send a bill for his signature.

When the GOP is desperate, they'll talk to Reid.  Until then, it's all show.

Needs more Ted Cruz tears.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/b6cdfeb54d5d1f90e12befa59582ac66/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o1_250.gif)(http://25.media.tumblr.com/0526741a0bc7f8a984e75c8fa025e904/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o2_250.gif)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/59b6d666e94b7a752e1ee6d43c799ba5/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o6_250.gif)(http://25.media.tumblr.com/ed829349d81a5d39c3190b28bbd708e8/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o7_250.gif)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/a7ee5583d8813800229009d82427578a/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o8_250.gif)(http://25.media.tumblr.com/befea1f4fd4129729288b79da68aeb02/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o9_250.gif)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/ac304503cd41dfcfdac9901bf94f0af0/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o10_250.gif)(http://24.media.tumblr.com/714a3c31dea7dcdb6839df4bd48f45ac/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o3_250.gif)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/06f0241fd1f2c7fdd19daf27a05bf51d/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o4_250.gif)(http://25.media.tumblr.com/4cd399aac8bd7dbd24f7e5f2c9038478/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o5_250.gif)

Quote from: Pæs on October 12, 2013, 12:11:51 PM
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/b6cdfeb54d5d1f90e12befa59582ac66/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o1_250.gif)(http://25.media.tumblr.com/0526741a0bc7f8a984e75c8fa025e904/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o2_250.gif)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/59b6d666e94b7a752e1ee6d43c799ba5/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o6_250.gif)(http://25.media.tumblr.com/ed829349d81a5d39c3190b28bbd708e8/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o7_250.gif)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/a7ee5583d8813800229009d82427578a/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o8_250.gif)(http://25.media.tumblr.com/befea1f4fd4129729288b79da68aeb02/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o9_250.gif)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/ac304503cd41dfcfdac9901bf94f0af0/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o10_250.gif)(http://24.media.tumblr.com/714a3c31dea7dcdb6839df4bd48f45ac/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o3_250.gif)
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/06f0241fd1f2c7fdd19daf27a05bf51d/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o4_250.gif)(http://25.media.tumblr.com/4cd399aac8bd7dbd24f7e5f2c9038478/tumblr_muckykNbLz1qc8jh0o5_250.gif)

Hah!

The House has just sent up a "compromise" bill to avoid default.

It's the same "we get everything we want, you get shit" bill, only MORE SO.

They're playing chicken.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 15, 2013, 10:25:20 PM
The House has just sent up a "compromise" bill to avoid default.

It's the same "we get everything we want, you get shit" bill, only MORE SO.

They're playing chicken.

They want to make changes to a law they don't have the power to repeal legally. Those changes would be permanent, while the funding the bill would allow to reopen the government would run out in December, and the Debt Ceiling debate would come up again in February. They're still demanding permanent concessions in return for a temporary truce in a war they've decided will go on until the end of time.

"Give us a mile, and we'll give you a badly-drawn picture of an illustration of an inch" is now what passes for "compromise" in Washington. The proposal is, of course, DOA in the Senate. And it is even uncertain to pass in the House, because too many Tea Party Republicans oppose it on the grounds that it gives Obama too much.

The lines are drawn, the armies are amassed. The Republicans are clearly scrambling around trying to find a hole through which they can drive their fanatical ideology all the way to the heart of Them Libruls. And the Democrats, showing the first sign of spinal resilience since the days of JFK, are standing firm in their resolve to let the GOP go ahead and hang itself. Meanwhile, in the rest of the country, the wailing and gnashing of teeth has settled into the background like white noise, as people everywhere throw up their hands and their meager lunches in disgust with the whole situation.

Whatever comes next, whether the dreaded Default comes and knocks America down to the Third World as prophesied by lots of people who are smarter than I am; whether Obama (as he is known to do) somehow manages to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory again; whether the Tea Party is ultimately the final nail in the coffin of the Geriatric Ol' Party or just simmers just below boiling for the next 150 years; whatever comes next, America knows one thing for certain.

It's Tuesday, the work week has just begun, and there's a new episode of some really important TV show on tonight. Wake us up when there's something worth caring about.

-

For people who think this shit isn't real...

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/washington-bickering-killed-nearly-1-million-jobs-215211102.html

Nothing new here for Cain or Nigel, but worth a read for them or anyone else:

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/15/20979288-bad-negotiators-experts-say-congress-is-getting-it-wrong-in-fiscal-talks?lite

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 15, 2013, 10:25:20 PM
The House has just sent up a "compromise" bill to avoid default.

It's the same "we get everything we want, you get shit" bill, only MORE SO.

They're playing chicken.

I've not been following this whole clusterfuck as closely as I'd have liked to. This "playing chicken" idea I've seen in a few different locations.

It's been suggested that the only way to "win" chicken is to rip the steering wheel from your car right away at the start. This removes your agency and reduces the opponents choices to "swerve or die".

What I'm thinking is that this is just a practice run. No-ones got the crazy or the balls to burn it all down now.

Next time though, expect to have a steering wheel hit you in the face with "YOUR MOVE FUCKER" screamed at you.

Quote from: Junkenstein on October 16, 2013, 04:11:59 PM
What I'm thinking is that this is just a practice run. No-ones got the crazy or the balls to burn it all down now.

It's probably too late for them to swerve, at this point.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 04:13:23 PM

Quote from: Junkenstein on October 16, 2013, 04:11:59 PM
What I'm thinking is that this is just a practice run. No-ones got the crazy or the balls to burn it all down now.

It's probably too late for them to swerve, at this point.

I'll take that bet. Last minute swerves are part of chicken. Steering wheels still seem to be in the cars, there's just no incentive to use them for either side. Yet. When the polls are horrific enough, someone will cave.

Quote from: Junkenstein on October 16, 2013, 04:39:55 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 04:13:23 PM

Quote from: Junkenstein on October 16, 2013, 04:11:59 PM
What I'm thinking is that this is just a practice run. No-ones got the crazy or the balls to burn it all down now.

It's probably too late for them to swerve, at this point.

I'll take that bet. Last minute swerves are part of chicken. Steering wheels still seem to be in the cars, there's just no incentive to use them for either side. Yet. When the polls are horrific enough, someone will cave.

Right, then...Agreement by midnight tomorrow night at midnight, passed and signed.

Loser has to write a 2 page indictment of the winner.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 04:41:21 PM

Quote from: Junkenstein on October 16, 2013, 04:39:55 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 04:13:23 PM

Quote from: Junkenstein on October 16, 2013, 04:11:59 PM
What I'm thinking is that this is just a practice run. No-ones got the crazy or the balls to burn it all down now.

It's probably too late for them to swerve, at this point.

I'll take that bet. Last minute swerves are part of chicken. Steering wheels still seem to be in the cars, there's just no incentive to use them for either side. Yet. When the polls are horrific enough, someone will cave.

Right, then...Agreement by midnight tomorrow night at midnight, passed and signed.

Loser has to write a 2 page indictment of the winner.

I can't take a bet that I know I'm going to lose. Give me Midnight Friday at least.

There's some deadline tomorrow at midnight that I'm not aware of isn't there?

Quote from: Junkenstein on October 16, 2013, 04:50:47 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 04:41:21 PM

Quote from: Junkenstein on October 16, 2013, 04:39:55 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 04:13:23 PM

Quote from: Junkenstein on October 16, 2013, 04:11:59 PM
What I'm thinking is that this is just a practice run. No-ones got the crazy or the balls to burn it all down now.

It's probably too late for them to swerve, at this point.

I'll take that bet. Last minute swerves are part of chicken. Steering wheels still seem to be in the cars, there's just no incentive to use them for either side. Yet. When the polls are horrific enough, someone will cave.

Right, then...Agreement by midnight tomorrow night at midnight, passed and signed.

Loser has to write a 2 page indictment of the winner.

I can't take a bet that I know I'm going to lose. Give me Midnight Friday at least.

There's some deadline tomorrow at midnight that I'm not aware of isn't there?

Yes.  We go into outright default on the 17th.

http://www.today.com/news/outcry-over-students-punishment-helping-drunk-friend-8C11403079#women-gop-senators-debt-deal-lets-get-it-8C11400901

QuoteThree women senators who helped craft a deal being pushed by Senate leaders to resolve the nation's debt crisis said House lawmakers need to rise above politics to quickly pass a deal that will allow the federal government to open its doors and pay its bills.

"This should not be about someone's speakership. This should not be about the next election. This should be about the future of our country, where we are right now. We are shutdown as a government. We are facing a debt crisis," Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska told TODAY's Savannah Guthrie.

Murkowski, along with fellow Republican Sens. Susan Collins of Maine and Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire, crafted the compromise plan with the help of a bipartisan group of other women lawmakers.

The deal, however, was rejected by the House and Speaker John Boehner is being criticized for his struggle to keep his members, particularly a small group of the Tea Party conservatives, in line.

Murkowski said the deal at issue is about more than Boehner's political future.

"We need to keep in mind what the real goal here is, which is getting this country back on track. Difficult decisions for all but it ought not to be about the politics of the game or whether or not someone keeps their leadership," she said. "I want to support John Boehner in any way that I can but we need to be pragmatic. This is not going to be a Republican solution or a Democratic solution. This is going to be a solution that is good for the country."

Faced against a deadline just a day away, House leaders are scrambling to craft competing legislation, one that would help dismantle elements of the Affordable Care Act, which Republicans refer to as "Obamacare."

Ayotte said it's time to move past that issue because battle over the health care law already took place, with its detractors losing the fight.

"Let's face it, the government is shutdown, the Obama care exchange is open," she told Guthrie. Using health care as a hurdle to resolving the nation's budget and debt crisis is part of a "zero-sum policy."

So, what we have is Boehner and a few teabaggers shitting all over the country to keep Rush Limbaugh's fans happy.

:rwhn:

Of course there will be a last-minute deal to "avoid catastrophe." And by "avoid," they mean "postpone until Christmas." Because constant bickering and eternal crisis is the only way we know how to live in this country.

Quote from: V3X on October 16, 2013, 05:05:45 PM
Of course there will be a last-minute deal to "avoid catastrophe." Of course, by "avoid," they mean "postpone until Christmas." Because constant bickering and eternal crisis is the only way we know how to live in this country.

Even if one side or the other caved this minute, there isn't time to do anything about it.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 05:06:36 PM

Quote from: V3X on October 16, 2013, 05:05:45 PM
Of course there will be a last-minute deal to "avoid catastrophe." Of course, by "avoid," they mean "postpone until Christmas." Because constant bickering and eternal crisis is the only way we know how to live in this country.

Even if one side or the other caved this minute, there isn't time to do anything about it.

All it takes is for Ted Cruz to do another one of his technically-not-a-filibuster stunts to push any deal past the deadline. On the other hand, I understand that a failure to extend the debt ceiling does not necessarily mean a technical default right away. The next big scheduled debt payment isn't for another two weeks. And these are politicians we're talking about. They're not going to let the USA become a deadbeat in the eyes of other countries or the international financial system. They'd much prefer that the USA is a deadbeat when it comes to "moochers" like retired people, disabled people, and the poor. Because fuck those people anyway, as far as Washington is concerned.

Quote from: V3X on October 16, 2013, 05:11:17 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 05:06:36 PM

Quote from: V3X on October 16, 2013, 05:05:45 PM
Of course there will be a last-minute deal to "avoid catastrophe." Of course, by "avoid," they mean "postpone until Christmas." Because constant bickering and eternal crisis is the only way we know how to live in this country.

Even if one side or the other caved this minute, there isn't time to do anything about it.

All it takes is for Ted Cruz to do another one of his technically-not-a-filibuster stunts to push any deal past the deadline. On the other hand, I understand that a failure to extend the debt ceiling does not necessarily mean a technical default right away. The next big scheduled debt payment isn't for another two weeks. And these are politicians we're talking about. They're not going to let the USA become a deadbeat in the eyes of other countries or the international financial system. They'd much prefer that the USA is a deadbeat when it comes to "moochers" like retired people, disabled people, and the poor. Because fuck those people anyway, as far as Washington is concerned.

Technical default is tomorrow.  Disastrous non-payment is on the 1st.  However, technical default means we get downgraded, and that will throw a giant monkeywrench in all foriegn trade.

All I want to know is whether I should have used the $4600 mortgage payment I just made to stock up on booze, sugar, and bullets instead.

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 16, 2013, 05:22:32 PM
All I want to know is whether I should have used the $4600 mortgage payment I just made to stock up on booze, sugar, and bullets instead.

No, because the disaster won't be America today, Road Warrior tomorrow.  It will be a long slow slide for a while.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 05:26:10 PM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 16, 2013, 05:22:32 PM
All I want to know is whether I should have used the $4600 mortgage payment I just made to stock up on booze, sugar, and bullets instead.

No, because the disaster won't be America today, Road Warrior tomorrow.  It will be a long slow slide for a while.

Hopefully I'll have time to finish my PhD so that when I need to flee the country, I'll be able to move somewhere that still gives a shit about science.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 05:05:41 PM
http://www.today.com/news/outcry-over-students-punishment-helping-drunk-friend-8C11403079#women-gop-senators-debt-deal-lets-get-it-8C11400901

QuoteThree women senators who helped craft a deal being pushed by Senate leaders to resolve the nation's debt crisis said House lawmakers need to rise above politics to quickly pass a deal that will allow the federal government to open its doors and pay its bills.

"This should not be about someone's speakership. This should not be about the next election. This should be about the future of our country, where we are right now. We are shutdown as a government. We are facing a debt crisis," Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska told TODAY's Savannah Guthrie.

Murkowski, along with fellow Republican Sens. Susan Collins of Maine and Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire, crafted the compromise plan with the help of a bipartisan group of other women lawmakers.

The deal, however, was rejected by the House and Speaker John Boehner is being criticized for his struggle to keep his members, particularly a small group of the Tea Party conservatives, in line.

Murkowski said the deal at issue is about more than Boehner's political future.

"We need to keep in mind what the real goal here is, which is getting this country back on track. Difficult decisions for all but it ought not to be about the politics of the game or whether or not someone keeps their leadership," she said. "I want to support John Boehner in any way that I can but we need to be pragmatic. This is not going to be a Republican solution or a Democratic solution. This is going to be a solution that is good for the country."

Faced against a deadline just a day away, House leaders are scrambling to craft competing legislation, one that would help dismantle elements of the Affordable Care Act, which Republicans refer to as "Obamacare."

Ayotte said it's time to move past that issue because battle over the health care law already took place, with its detractors losing the fight.

"Let's face it, the government is shutdown, the Obama care exchange is open," she told Guthrie. Using health care as a hurdle to resolving the nation's budget and debt crisis is part of a "zero-sum policy."

So, what we have is Boehner and a few teabaggers shitting all over the country to keep Rush Limbaugh's fans happy.

:rwhn:

Did anyone else notice the article made it extremely clear that these senators were women?  Am I missing something, or does the gender of the person coming up with ways to prevent government default and shutdown not precisely relevant?

To be perfectly honest, I am a little conflicted in this whole budget debate. On one hand, it is ridiculous to see a bunch of know-nothings from bumfuck, TX take over half the House of Representatives and try to shove their ignorant, misguided ideology through the system until it jams up the whole government.

On the other hand, the ease with which America is able to borrow billions and billions of dollars on a regular basis contributes to the obscene budgets we have for the military and our international empire, which I believe should be completely dissolved.

So I'm left wishing we could force Washington to live within its means (whether or not that is technically necessary for a healthy economy), but knowing that with the general worldview of Americans, that would certainly mean we continue spending trillions on the military while allowing citizens to starve and freeze to death.

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 16, 2013, 05:30:16 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 05:26:10 PM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 16, 2013, 05:22:32 PM
All I want to know is whether I should have used the $4600 mortgage payment I just made to stock up on booze, sugar, and bullets instead.

No, because the disaster won't be America today, Road Warrior tomorrow.  It will be a long slow slide for a while.

Hopefully I'll have time to finish my PhD so that when I need to flee the country, I'll be able to move somewhere that still gives a shit about science.

Canada, Denmark, Germany, and (for the moment) Australia.

Hrm, I can't decide whether this is whistling past the graveyard or not:

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/19899-breaking-stop-fretting-the-debt-ceiling-crisis-is-over

QuoteThe Senate bill is a deal to lift the debt ceiling and reopen the government, without a ransom payment. That agreement is set to be announced, but the contours, which were described to me by an aide, will satisfy the Democratic demand not to make concessions for raising the debt ceiling or reopening the government. The House leadership, as everybody on Capitol Hill now expects, will quickly take up the Senate bill and put this debacle behind them. Rounding up the votes should not be a problem. The entire Democratic caucus will support it if needed, leaving Republicans to find just a handful of votes, well within the number that never wanted to shut down the government to begin with.

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 16, 2013, 05:34:11 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 05:05:41 PM
http://www.today.com/news/outcry-over-students-punishment-helping-drunk-friend-8C11403079#women-gop-senators-debt-deal-lets-get-it-8C11400901

QuoteThree women senators who helped craft a deal being pushed by Senate leaders to resolve the nation's debt crisis said House lawmakers need to rise above politics to quickly pass a deal that will allow the federal government to open its doors and pay its bills.

"This should not be about someone's speakership. This should not be about the next election. This should be about the future of our country, where we are right now. We are shutdown as a government. We are facing a debt crisis," Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska told TODAY's Savannah Guthrie.

Murkowski, along with fellow Republican Sens. Susan Collins of Maine and Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire, crafted the compromise plan with the help of a bipartisan group of other women lawmakers.

The deal, however, was rejected by the House and Speaker John Boehner is being criticized for his struggle to keep his members, particularly a small group of the Tea Party conservatives, in line.

Murkowski said the deal at issue is about more than Boehner's political future.

"We need to keep in mind what the real goal here is, which is getting this country back on track. Difficult decisions for all but it ought not to be about the politics of the game or whether or not someone keeps their leadership," she said. "I want to support John Boehner in any way that I can but we need to be pragmatic. This is not going to be a Republican solution or a Democratic solution. This is going to be a solution that is good for the country."

Faced against a deadline just a day away, House leaders are scrambling to craft competing legislation, one that would help dismantle elements of the Affordable Care Act, which Republicans refer to as "Obamacare."

Ayotte said it's time to move past that issue because battle over the health care law already took place, with its detractors losing the fight.

"Let's face it, the government is shutdown, the Obama care exchange is open," she told Guthrie. Using health care as a hurdle to resolving the nation's budget and debt crisis is part of a "zero-sum policy."

So, what we have is Boehner and a few teabaggers shitting all over the country to keep Rush Limbaugh's fans happy.

:rwhn:

Did anyone else notice the article made it extremely clear that these senators were women?  Am I missing something, or does the gender of the person coming up with ways to prevent government default and shutdown not precisely relevant?

Yeah, that was weird.

I've been talking with some friends about the possibility of setting up some RECALL FUCKING EVERYONE protests. The process for recalling a representative is pretty standard, it could probably be done.

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 16, 2013, 09:33:13 PM

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 16, 2013, 05:34:11 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 05:05:41 PM
http://www.today.com/news/outcry-over-students-punishment-helping-drunk-friend-8C11403079#women-gop-senators-debt-deal-lets-get-it-8C11400901

QuoteThree women senators who helped craft a deal being pushed by Senate leaders to resolve the nation's debt crisis said House lawmakers need to rise above politics to quickly pass a deal that will allow the federal government to open its doors and pay its bills.

"This should not be about someone's speakership. This should not be about the next election. This should be about the future of our country, where we are right now. We are shutdown as a government. We are facing a debt crisis," Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska told TODAY's Savannah Guthrie.

Murkowski, along with fellow Republican Sens. Susan Collins of Maine and Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire, crafted the compromise plan with the help of a bipartisan group of other women lawmakers.

The deal, however, was rejected by the House and Speaker John Boehner is being criticized for his struggle to keep his members, particularly a small group of the Tea Party conservatives, in line.

Murkowski said the deal at issue is about more than Boehner's political future.

"We need to keep in mind what the real goal here is, which is getting this country back on track. Difficult decisions for all but it ought not to be about the politics of the game or whether or not someone keeps their leadership," she said. "I want to support John Boehner in any way that I can but we need to be pragmatic. This is not going to be a Republican solution or a Democratic solution. This is going to be a solution that is good for the country."

Faced against a deadline just a day away, House leaders are scrambling to craft competing legislation, one that would help dismantle elements of the Affordable Care Act, which Republicans refer to as "Obamacare."

Ayotte said it's time to move past that issue because battle over the health care law already took place, with its detractors losing the fight.

"Let's face it, the government is shutdown, the Obama care exchange is open," she told Guthrie. Using health care as a hurdle to resolving the nation's budget and debt crisis is part of a "zero-sum policy."

So, what we have is Boehner and a few teabaggers shitting all over the country to keep Rush Limbaugh's fans happy.

:rwhn:

Did anyone else notice the article made it extremely clear that these senators were women?  Am I missing something, or does the gender of the person coming up with ways to prevent government default and shutdown not precisely relevant?

Yeah, that was weird.

I think they're playing on the current divide, male vs female, on the shutdown.

It's pandering, of course.

Quote from: Pere Ubu on October 16, 2013, 07:21:22 PM
Hrm, I can't decide whether this is whistling past the graveyard or not:

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/19899-breaking-stop-fretting-the-debt-ceiling-crisis-is-over

QuoteThe Senate bill is a deal to lift the debt ceiling and reopen the government, without a ransom payment. That agreement is set to be announced, but the contours, which were described to me by an aide, will satisfy the Democratic demand not to make concessions for raising the debt ceiling or reopening the government. The House leadership, as everybody on Capitol Hill now expects, will quickly take up the Senate bill and put this debacle behind them. Rounding up the votes should not be a problem. The entire Democratic caucus will support it if needed, leaving Republicans to find just a handful of votes, well within the number that never wanted to shut down the government to begin with.

Well here's hoping.

Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 16, 2013, 09:35:12 PM
I've been talking with some friends about the possibility of setting up some RECALL FUCKING EVERYONE protests. The process for recalling a representative is pretty standard, it could probably be done.

I still like the drunkdialcongress.org movement. 

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 09:36:04 PM

Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on October 16, 2013, 09:35:12 PM
I've been talking with some friends about the possibility of setting up some RECALL FUCKING EVERYONE protests. The process for recalling a representative is pretty standard, it could probably be done.

I still like the drunkdialcongress.org movement.

Oh shit, I knew I forgot to do SOMETHING last night.

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 16, 2013, 09:35:55 PM

Quote from: Pere Ubu on October 16, 2013, 07:21:22 PM
Hrm, I can't decide whether this is whistling past the graveyard or not:

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/19899-breaking-stop-fretting-the-debt-ceiling-crisis-is-over

QuoteThe Senate bill is a deal to lift the debt ceiling and reopen the government, without a ransom payment. That agreement is set to be announced, but the contours, which were described to me by an aide, will satisfy the Democratic demand not to make concessions for raising the debt ceiling or reopening the government. The House leadership, as everybody on Capitol Hill now expects, will quickly take up the Senate bill and put this debacle behind them. Rounding up the votes should not be a problem. The entire Democratic caucus will support it if needed, leaving Republicans to find just a handful of votes, well within the number that never wanted to shut down the government to begin with.

Well here's hoping.

It'll pass. And it'll seriously piss off the Tea Party. Hopefully, they get so pissed off that they spend the next year making obnoxious asses of themselves at every opportunity and dragging the GOP into a series of increasingly unwinnable battles. Not because that would hand the House back to the Democrats next year, but because I really want to live to see the total collapse of a major political party. With any luck, the Democrats would become the Conservative party and a new actually progressive Liberal party could sprout up.

Quote from: V3X on October 16, 2013, 09:47:37 PM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 16, 2013, 09:35:55 PM

Quote from: Pere Ubu on October 16, 2013, 07:21:22 PM
Hrm, I can't decide whether this is whistling past the graveyard or not:

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/19899-breaking-stop-fretting-the-debt-ceiling-crisis-is-over

QuoteThe Senate bill is a deal to lift the debt ceiling and reopen the government, without a ransom payment. That agreement is set to be announced, but the contours, which were described to me by an aide, will satisfy the Democratic demand not to make concessions for raising the debt ceiling or reopening the government. The House leadership, as everybody on Capitol Hill now expects, will quickly take up the Senate bill and put this debacle behind them. Rounding up the votes should not be a problem. The entire Democratic caucus will support it if needed, leaving Republicans to find just a handful of votes, well within the number that never wanted to shut down the government to begin with.

Well here's hoping.

It'll pass. And it'll seriously piss off the Tea Party. Hopefully, they get so pissed off that they spend the next year making obnoxious asses of themselves at every opportunity and dragging the GOP into a series of increasingly unwinnable battles. Not because that would hand the House back to the Democrats next year, but because I really want to live to see the total collapse of a major political party. With any luck, the Democrats would become the Conservative party and a new actually progressive Liberal party could sprout up.

This.  I missed the Whigs, and I'm not really happy about that.

Deal has passed the Senate and House, and is on the way to Obama.

http://news.msn.com/us/senate-approves-debt-deal-house-vote-can-end-shutdown

Meanwhile, our own Senator Graham weighs in:

Quote"We won't be the last political party to overplay our hand. It might happen one day on the Democratic side. And if it did, would Republicans, for the good of the country, kinda give a little? We really did go too far. We screwed up. But their response is making things worse, not better."

Yeah, well, "good of the country" my fucking ass, you tool. Your party catered to the Teabaggers to the point where they shut down the fucking government, cost us billions of dollars, and embarrassed us in front of the world. And the great solution to this is another fucking last-minute deal to kick the can down the road another couple months so you assholes can pull this shit all over again.

You want to make me feel better about this? Give me Cruz's head on a pike. Make an example of the little fucker so Rubio or Paul or one of the other fruitloops maybe has second thoughts on playing this idiot game again.

No, on second thought, yes, I still want Cruz's empty skull on a pike, but fuck the GOP. Nothing they can do will make me feel better about this.

Quote from: Pere Ubu on October 17, 2013, 03:32:36 AM
Deal has passed the Senate and House, and is on the way to Obama.

http://news.msn.com/us/senate-approves-debt-deal-house-vote-can-end-shutdown

Meanwhile, our own Senator Graham weighs in:

Quote"We won't be the last political party to overplay our hand. It might happen one day on the Democratic side. And if it did, would Republicans, for the good of the country, kinda give a little? We really did go too far. We screwed up. But their response is making things worse, not better."

Yeah, well, "good of the country" my fucking ass, you tool. Your party catered to the Teabaggers to the point where they shut down the fucking government, cost us billions of dollars, and embarrassed us in front of the world. And the great solution to this is another fucking last-minute deal to kick the can down the road another couple months so you assholes an pull this shit all over again.

You want to make me feel better about this? Give me Cruz's head on a pike. Make an example of the little fucker so Rubio or Paul or one of the other fruitloops maybe has second thoughts on playing this idiot game again.

It's almost like these things are a feature, as opposed to a bug in the system.

Quote from: V3X on October 16, 2013, 09:47:37 PM

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 16, 2013, 09:35:55 PM

Quote from: Pere Ubu on October 16, 2013, 07:21:22 PM
Hrm, I can't decide whether this is whistling past the graveyard or not:

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/19899-breaking-stop-fretting-the-debt-ceiling-crisis-is-over

QuoteThe Senate bill is a deal to lift the debt ceiling and reopen the government, without a ransom payment. That agreement is set to be announced, but the contours, which were described to me by an aide, will satisfy the Democratic demand not to make concessions for raising the debt ceiling or reopening the government. The House leadership, as everybody on Capitol Hill now expects, will quickly take up the Senate bill and put this debacle behind them. Rounding up the votes should not be a problem. The entire Democratic caucus will support it if needed, leaving Republicans to find just a handful of votes, well within the number that never wanted to shut down the government to begin with.

Well here's hoping.

It'll pass. And it'll seriously piss off the Tea Party. Hopefully, they get so pissed off that they spend the next year making obnoxious asses of themselves at every opportunity and dragging the GOP into a series of increasingly unwinnable battles. Not because that would hand the House back to the Democrats next year, but because I really want to live to see the total collapse of a major political party. With any luck, the Democrats would become the Conservative party and a new actually progressive Liberal party could sprout up.

THAT would be actual change.

-

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 04:53:11 PM

Quote from: Junkenstein on October 16, 2013, 04:50:47 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 04:41:21 PM

Quote from: Junkenstein on October 16, 2013, 04:39:55 PM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 04:13:23 PM

Quote from: Junkenstein on October 16, 2013, 04:11:59 PM
What I'm thinking is that this is just a practice run. No-ones got the crazy or the balls to burn it all down now.

It's probably too late for them to swerve, at this point.

I'll take that bet. Last minute swerves are part of chicken. Steering wheels still seem to be in the cars, there's just no incentive to use them for either side. Yet. When the polls are horrific enough, someone will cave.

Right, then...Agreement by midnight tomorrow night at midnight, passed and signed.

Loser has to write a 2 page indictment of the winner.

I can't take a bet that I know I'm going to lose. Give me Midnight Friday at least.

There's some deadline tomorrow at midnight that I'm not aware of isn't there?

Yes.  We go into outright default on the 17th.

I had completly lost track of the date, thought there was still more time to play with.

So, more fuckery further down the line then. That'll be productive.

And now, for something completely different.

As the House finished their vote to reopen the federal government and raise the debt ceiling, a House stenographer decided it was a good time to let everyone know her feelings about God, Congress, and the Freemasons. (http://gawker.com/house-stenographer-dragged-off-floor-yelling-about-free-1446830813)

Quote"He [God] will not be mocked," the stenographer, apparently named Molly, yelled into the microphone as she was dragged off by security. "The greatest deception here is that this is not one nation under God. It never was. It would not have been. The Constitution would not have been written by Freemasons. They go against God. You cannot serve two masters. Praise be to God. Praise be to Jesus."

Taking bets on her political affiliation being "Tea Party".

Really bad odds.

a useful idiot lol