Principia Discordia

This came up in school, and I was entirely not surprised that regional history textbooks teach different things. One of the above answers is correct, but I am not going to flip out at people who get it wrong, because even my boyfriend did.

Please do not debate what the Europeans did to the natives, or even how the natives technically colonized here first. That's not what I'm asking. I would like to know just out of an experiment of sorts to see how some regions of the country really do teach this.

Oh, and try not to look it up, either. :P

Did not cheat.

I voted. Now I'm going to look it up.

Nope. I was on the right track though.

-

You can tell I didn't cheat because I was wrong.

Huh, I was wrong too!

I Guessed

I guessed, but I also didn't look it up so I am going to assume I was right until violently persuaded otherwise.

I guessed and voted, but then cheated. And by cheated I mean I went on FB and was informed of the truth against my will. :argh!:

Wow -- I stand amazed at and ashamed of myself.

I saw this on your FB feed earlier, so I know.  But I didn't before seeing the post. 


(http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4919667128926982&pid=1.7)

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I was taught that it's St. Augustine.

I got it wrong.

I was taught St Augustine was the oldest in Florida, but that Plymouth was oldest for the colonies.

Quote from: Sita on October 02, 2013, 06:05:33 PM
I was taught St Augustine was the oldest in Florida, but that Plymouth was oldest for the colonies.

Jamestown is older. Plymouth gets more attention because of Thanksgiving.

ETA: well, a bit of a clarification. Jamestown was a permanent English settlement that was abandoned for a bit. Plymouth was a continuous settlement.

St. Augustine was founded in 1565.

Newfoundland was claimed for the English in 1585, and then Jamestown was not founded until 1607. Plymouth was 1620.  Santa Fe was actually 1610 and older than Plymouth. Roger is actually responsible for the Grand Canyon as a direct result of the Big Bang in 1302.



But no really, it's St. Augustine. Apparently, I blew brains last night with that, and just blew a lot of yours. I have discovered a serious flaw in the way we teach history in this nation, and that is the Northeast tends to ignore Spanish colonization of the Americas, other than Cortez was mean and killed the Aztecs. But we don't talk about what the Pilgrims did to the Wampanoags and Narragansetts.

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Quote from: Cain on October 02, 2013, 07:16:19 PM
WASPs dominate understanding of history!

No, I know what you're saying.  But in some ways, you have to admit, the Spanish getting ignored is entirely unsurprising.

Unless you grow up in Florida, then half of your state history is Spanish colonialism, rather than English. Though the English did eventually take St. Augustine and played quite a large part in Florida as well. Florida history is actually REALLY interesting, considering how the state is looked upon now. For example, it's the Cross of Burgundy in the state flag, NOT the Confederate Battle Flag like the other southern states. And technically the first settlement in Florida was Fort Caroline which is now Jacksonville. It was by French Huguenots who got annihilated by the Spanish. So it's a lost settlement, like Roanoke, but we know what happened to them.

Castine (where I lived in Maine) has been continuously settled since 1613. I believe it's the oldest permanent settlement in New England, but it was originally settled by the French so it doesn't really count for History(tm).

Quote from: Jet City Hustle on October 02, 2013, 07:53:36 PM
Castine (where I lived in Maine) has been continuously settled since 1613. I believe it's the oldest permanent settlement in New England, but it was originally settled by the French so it doesn't really count for History(tm).

True story: The French get ignored a hell of a lot more than the Spanish. Except for the Louisiana Purchase, and Rochambeau's march to Yorktown.

edit: Oh shit, it was the capital of Acadia. Way cool. Talk about a lost colony as a whole. I don't know much about it, other than that's where a lot of the Louisiana French got their origins from once the English went in and tried to kill them all.

Gosh, those English were nice folks.

It doesn't help that the name of the place changed several times. It's locally famous for being one of the only places in that part of the country that's ever had 4 different nations fly their flag over it, as some Dutch guy took the peninsula briefly at one point.

Quote from: Jet City Hustle on October 02, 2013, 08:10:20 PM
It doesn't help that the name of the place changed several times. It's locally famous for being one of the only places in that part of the country that's ever had 4 different nations fly their flag over it, as some Dutch guy took the peninsula briefly at one point.

The subtle nuances of colonial landgrab.  :lulz:

Quote from: Suu on October 02, 2013, 07:21:56 PM

Quote from: Cain on October 02, 2013, 07:16:19 PM
WASPs dominate understanding of history!

No, I know what you're saying.  But in some ways, you have to admit, the Spanish getting ignored is entirely unsurprising.

Unless you grow up in Florida, then half of your state history is Spanish colonialism, rather than English. Though the English did eventually take St. Augustine and played quite a large part in Florida as well. Florida history is actually REALLY interesting, considering how the state is looked upon now. For example, it's the Cross of Burgundy in the state flag, NOT the Confederate Battle Flag like the other southern states. And technically the first settlement in Florida was Fort Caroline which is now Jacksonville. It was by French Huguenots who got annihilated by the Spanish. So it's a lost settlement, like Roanoke, but we know what happened to them.

Surprisingly the history about my own state was rarely touched on while I was in school :( I never learned any of that.

Quote from: Sita on October 02, 2013, 08:48:19 PM

Quote from: Suu on October 02, 2013, 07:21:56 PM

Quote from: Cain on October 02, 2013, 07:16:19 PM
WASPs dominate understanding of history!

No, I know what you're saying.  But in some ways, you have to admit, the Spanish getting ignored is entirely unsurprising.

Unless you grow up in Florida, then half of your state history is Spanish colonialism, rather than English. Though the English did eventually take St. Augustine and played quite a large part in Florida as well. Florida history is actually REALLY interesting, considering how the state is looked upon now. For example, it's the Cross of Burgundy in the state flag, NOT the Confederate Battle Flag like the other southern states. And technically the first settlement in Florida was Fort Caroline which is now Jacksonville. It was by French Huguenots who got annihilated by the Spanish. So it's a lost settlement, like Roanoke, but we know what happened to them.

Surprisingly the history about my own state was rarely touched on while I was in school :( I never learned any of that.

There's often a reason for that.  In Illinois, they don't talk about the Blackhawk War much.  :lol:

Quote from: Sita on October 02, 2013, 08:48:19 PM

Quote from: Suu on October 02, 2013, 07:21:56 PM

Quote from: Cain on October 02, 2013, 07:16:19 PM
WASPs dominate understanding of history!

No, I know what you're saying.  But in some ways, you have to admit, the Spanish getting ignored is entirely unsurprising.

Unless you grow up in Florida, then half of your state history is Spanish colonialism, rather than English. Though the English did eventually take St. Augustine and played quite a large part in Florida as well. Florida history is actually REALLY interesting, considering how the state is looked upon now. For example, it's the Cross of Burgundy in the state flag, NOT the Confederate Battle Flag like the other southern states. And technically the first settlement in Florida was Fort Caroline which is now Jacksonville. It was by French Huguenots who got annihilated by the Spanish. So it's a lost settlement, like Roanoke, but we know what happened to them.

Surprisingly the history about my own state was rarely touched on while I was in school :( I never learned any of that.

Florida History was mandatory for us in 4th Grade, 5th Grade, 8th Grade (concurrent with American History), and 11th Grade (concurrent with American History.) But I also grew up in Liberal Tampa Bay pre-NCLB. Most school districts from what I understand were not as fortunate as Hillsborough and Pinellas County, where Penny for Pinellas pays for keeping the schools in pretty good shape.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 02, 2013, 08:48:59 PM

Quote from: Sita on October 02, 2013, 08:48:19 PM

Quote from: Suu on October 02, 2013, 07:21:56 PM

Quote from: Cain on October 02, 2013, 07:16:19 PM
WASPs dominate understanding of history!

No, I know what you're saying.  But in some ways, you have to admit, the Spanish getting ignored is entirely unsurprising.

Unless you grow up in Florida, then half of your state history is Spanish colonialism, rather than English. Though the English did eventually take St. Augustine and played quite a large part in Florida as well. Florida history is actually REALLY interesting, considering how the state is looked upon now. For example, it's the Cross of Burgundy in the state flag, NOT the Confederate Battle Flag like the other southern states. And technically the first settlement in Florida was Fort Caroline which is now Jacksonville. It was by French Huguenots who got annihilated by the Spanish. So it's a lost settlement, like Roanoke, but we know what happened to them.

Surprisingly the history about my own state was rarely touched on while I was in school :( I never learned any of that.

There's often a reason for that.  In Illinois, they don't talk about the Blackhawk War much.  :lol:

And King Philip's War in RI.

I chose wrong, basing my choice essentially on the availability heuristic of having heard Jamestown mentioned as an early settlement so many times. I'm actually impressed with myself for remembering that much, given that it is a topic that I literally do not give a single fuck about.

Quote from: Twigel on October 02, 2013, 06:09:11 PM

Quote from: Sita on October 02, 2013, 06:05:33 PM
I was taught St Augustine was the oldest in Florida, but that Plymouth was oldest for the colonies.

Jamestown is older. Plymouth gets more attention because of Thanksgiving.

ETA: well, a bit of a clarification. Jamestown was a permanent English settlement that was abandoned for a bit. Plymouth was a continuous settlement.

And apparently the first settlement was in Pensacola. Weird.

Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 03, 2013, 01:02:35 AM
I chose wrong, basing my choice essentially on the availability heuristic of having heard Jamestown mentioned as an early settlement so many times. I'm actually impressed with myself for remembering that much, given that it is a topic that I literally do not give a single fuck about.

I chose Santa Fe. My reasoning was as follows:
1.) I knew the Spanish Empire set up permanent colonies before the English
2.) My gut reaction was somewhere in Florida, but I knew that they also got to the West coast fairly quickly and knowing that it wasn't the English territories, perhaps it was in the Southwest.

That said, my education, in elementary, high school and college had been largely focused on the British Empire. Elementary was largely focused on New England, I think, since that was so long ago, but the other two made it a broader, East Coast sort of focus. I think being here in the Northeast, and the USA being directly borne out of rebellion against the British and the rest of the territories being acquired through purchase or warfare makes a continuation of Britain the focus of the narrative.

I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance.  :?

Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 03, 2013, 01:03:39 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 02, 2013, 06:09:11 PM

Quote from: Sita on October 02, 2013, 06:05:33 PM
I was taught St Augustine was the oldest in Florida, but that Plymouth was oldest for the colonies.

Jamestown is older. Plymouth gets more attention because of Thanksgiving.

ETA: well, a bit of a clarification. Jamestown was a permanent English settlement that was abandoned for a bit. Plymouth was a continuous settlement.

And apparently the first settlement was in Pensacola. Weird.

Yep, and it was destroyed by a hurricane. If that hadn't have happened, Pensacola could have beaten St. Augustine in permanence.

Quote from: Golden Applesauce on October 03, 2013, 01:41:16 AM
I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance.  :?

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 01:42:59 AM

Quote from: Golden Applesauce on October 03, 2013, 01:41:16 AM
I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance.  :?

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

This. Which leads to all sorts of issues with sickle cell anemia in modern black populations. However, they got us back with syphilis. (I say "us," because I'm as whitey mcwhitefuck as they come.)

Also, if you ever get the chance to make it to St. Augustine, it's fucking GORGEOUS. It's one of the state's unsung places, because most of the tourists go to swampy ass Orlando for the Rat or Miami for the dirty beaches. Most of St. Augustine's Old City hasn't changed much. It's very European and not at all what you would expect in Florida.

Quote from: Suu on October 03, 2013, 01:44:20 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 01:42:59 AM

Quote from: Golden Applesauce on October 03, 2013, 01:41:16 AM
I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance.  :?

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

This. Which leads to all sorts of issues with sickle cell anemia in modern black populations. However, they got us back with syphilis. (I say "us," because I'm as whitey mcwhitefuck as they come.)

Yep. Sickle cell is actually a mutation in defense against malaria, and found exclusively among Africans and people of (fairly recent) African descent.

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 01:42:59 AM

Quote from: Golden Applesauce on October 03, 2013, 01:41:16 AM
I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance.  :?

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

It's also one of the origins of the "lazy indian" stereotype. When enslaved, indians pretty much just promptly got sick and died.

Quote from: Suu on October 03, 2013, 01:44:20 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 01:42:59 AM

Quote from: Golden Applesauce on October 03, 2013, 01:41:16 AM
I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance.  :?

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

This. Which leads to all sorts of issues with sickle cell anemia in modern black populations. However, they got us back with syphilis. (I say "us," because I'm as whitey mcwhitefuck as they come.)

The best part is that you palefaces took a completely harmless form of syphilis back to Europe, where it promptly mutated into a face-rotting nightmare disease that swept through France, Italy and Spain.

You're welcome.

Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 03, 2013, 02:23:00 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 01:42:59 AM

Quote from: Golden Applesauce on October 03, 2013, 01:41:16 AM
I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance.  :?

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

It's also one of the origins of the "lazy indian" stereotype. When enslaved, indians pretty much just promptly got sick and died.

Yep. Europeans, as a result, considered Natives to be a weak race, Africans to be a strong race, and themselves to be a smart race.

Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 03, 2013, 02:25:12 AM

Quote from: Suu on October 03, 2013, 01:44:20 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 01:42:59 AM

Quote from: Golden Applesauce on October 03, 2013, 01:41:16 AM
I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance.  :?

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

This. Which leads to all sorts of issues with sickle cell anemia in modern black populations. However, they got us back with syphilis. (I say "us," because I'm as whitey mcwhitefuck as they come.)

The best part is that you palefaces took a completely harmless form of syphilis back to Europe, where it promptly mutated into a face-rotting nightmare disease that swept through France, Italy and Spain.

You're welcome.

And then they mutated again.  I have to spear the bastards with a pickle fork.

Wasn't Jamestown the place where everyone was cannibalizing each other, and people were put to death for stealing gruel, or oats?

Quote from: Suu on October 03, 2013, 01:49:30 AM
Also, if you ever get the chance to make it to St. Augustine, it's fucking GORGEOUS. It's one of the state's unsung places, because most of the tourists go to swampy ass Orlando for the Rat or Miami for the dirty beaches. Most of St. Augustine's Old City hasn't changed much. It's very European and not at all what you would expect in Florida.

Band of Horses wrote a song about it, so it isn't unsung anymore. :lulz:

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 03, 2013, 02:26:03 AM

Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 03, 2013, 02:25:12 AM

Quote from: Suu on October 03, 2013, 01:44:20 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 01:42:59 AM

Quote from: Golden Applesauce on October 03, 2013, 01:41:16 AM
I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance.  :?

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

This. Which leads to all sorts of issues with sickle cell anemia in modern black populations. However, they got us back with syphilis. (I say "us," because I'm as whitey mcwhitefuck as they come.)

The best part is that you palefaces took a completely harmless form of syphilis back to Europe, where it promptly mutated into a face-rotting nightmare disease that swept through France, Italy and Spain.

You're welcome.

And then they mutated again.  I have to spear the bastards with a pickle fork.

:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: It got Tucson in it.

Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 03, 2013, 02:27:14 AM

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 03, 2013, 02:26:03 AM

Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 03, 2013, 02:25:12 AM

Quote from: Suu on October 03, 2013, 01:44:20 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 01:42:59 AM

Quote from: Golden Applesauce on October 03, 2013, 01:41:16 AM
I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance.  :?

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

This. Which leads to all sorts of issues with sickle cell anemia in modern black populations. However, they got us back with syphilis. (I say "us," because I'm as whitey mcwhitefuck as they come.)

The best part is that you palefaces took a completely harmless form of syphilis back to Europe, where it promptly mutated into a face-rotting nightmare disease that swept through France, Italy and Spain.

You're welcome.

And then they mutated again.  I have to spear the bastards with a pickle fork.

:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: It got Tuscon in it.

Hohokum's Revenge.

Quote from: Mean Mister Nigel on October 03, 2013, 02:25:12 AM

Quote from: Suu on October 03, 2013, 01:44:20 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 01:42:59 AM

Quote from: Golden Applesauce on October 03, 2013, 01:41:16 AM
I don't think I knew that St. Augustine existed before today. I knew that Spanish had earlier NA colonies, but just kind of assumed all of the old ones were in Cuba / Caribbean and not on the mainland.

All I remember about Florida in colonial American history was that between the swamp and the malaria, settling there was a poor decision. I think there was something about Native Americans making better slaves than the ones imported from Africa because they had more malaria resistance.  :?

Other way around. The Natives were ravaged with European diseases that Africans were immune to, due to proximity. That's part of the reason that blacks exclusively became slaves.

This. Which leads to all sorts of issues with sickle cell anemia in modern black populations. However, they got us back with syphilis. (I say "us," because I'm as whitey mcwhitefuck as they come.)

The best part is that you palefaces took a completely harmless form of syphilis back to Europe, where it promptly mutated into a face-rotting nightmare disease that swept through France, Italy and Spain.

You're welcome.

Well, no one ever said that immunity was a one way street.

Also, we'll trade you one alcoholism for a lung cancer.

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 02:37:07 AM
Also, we'll trade you one alcoholism for a lung cancer.

Not really fair.

Euros were drunk all the time.  We were just used to it.

Native Americans used tobacco ceremonially.  I don't think they were sucking a pack down a day.

Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 03, 2013, 02:38:27 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 02:37:07 AM
Also, we'll trade you one alcoholism for a lung cancer.

Not really fair.

Euros were drunk all the time.  We were just used to it.

Native Americans used tobacco ceremonially.  I don't think they were sucking a pack down a day.

Ok, we'll throw in a smallpox, free of charge.

True fact: Plymouth happened because a bunch of Virginia bound religious zealots ran out of booze.

True fact: slavery was part of a trade triangle that involved human trafficking in order to harvest sugar, sugar in order to make rum, rum in order to pay for humans.

Seriously, I just close my eyes in hopelessness.

Quote from: Suu on October 02, 2013, 09:46:11 PM

Quote from: Sita on October 02, 2013, 08:48:19 PM

Quote from: Suu on October 02, 2013, 07:21:56 PM

Quote from: Cain on October 02, 2013, 07:16:19 PM
WASPs dominate understanding of history!

No, I know what you're saying.  But in some ways, you have to admit, the Spanish getting ignored is entirely unsurprising.

Unless you grow up in Florida, then half of your state history is Spanish colonialism, rather than English. Though the English did eventually take St. Augustine and played quite a large part in Florida as well. Florida history is actually REALLY interesting, considering how the state is looked upon now. For example, it's the Cross of Burgundy in the state flag, NOT the Confederate Battle Flag like the other southern states. And technically the first settlement in Florida was Fort Caroline which is now Jacksonville. It was by French Huguenots who got annihilated by the Spanish. So it's a lost settlement, like Roanoke, but we know what happened to them.

Surprisingly the history about my own state was rarely touched on while I was in school :( I never learned any of that.

Florida History was mandatory for us in 4th Grade, 5th Grade, 8th Grade (concurrent with American History), and 11th Grade (concurrent with American History.) But I also grew up in Liberal Tampa Bay pre-NCLB. Most school districts from what I understand were not as fortunate as Hillsborough and Pinellas County, where Penny for Pinellas pays for keeping the schools in pretty good shape.

I grew up in Tampa as well (c/o '99 here). If we had Florida history my teachers sucked at teaching it.

We had a metric fuckton of Texas history in school, the teachers were Hank Hill reverent about the shit - kind of like the way you see Texas flags all over the place. (When I lived in Mass, it took me awhile to even find out what the state flag looked like.) Actually, Texas history IS pretty interesting since so many of those people were BATSHIT INSANE, but that gets played down a lot in school.  :lol:

I pulled Jamestown out of my ass and then googled before I read the thread. Yeah, I know the Spanish explorers were here way before that, but I didn't really think of them in terms of "permanent settlement." More like "loot and scoot". :x But yeah, should have remembered the missions, etc. That would have been a clue.

Quote from: stelz on October 03, 2013, 03:39:22 AM
We had a metric fuckton of Texas history in school, the teachers were Hank Hill reverent about the shit - kind of like the way you see Texas flags all over the place. (When I lived in Mass, it took me awhile to even find out what the state flag looked like.) Actually, Texas history IS pretty interesting since so many of those people were BATSHIT INSANE, but that gets played down a lot in school.  :lol:

I pulled Jamestown out of my ass and then googled before I read the thread. Yeah, I know the Spanish explorers were here way before that, but I didn't really think of them in terms of "permanent settlement." More like "loot and scoot". :x But yeah, should have remembered the missions, etc. That would have been a clue.

I don't think I even knew what our flag looked like until I got to high school.

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 03:51:03 AM

Quote from: stelz on October 03, 2013, 03:39:22 AM
We had a metric fuckton of Texas history in school, the teachers were Hank Hill reverent about the shit - kind of like the way you see Texas flags all over the place. (When I lived in Mass, it took me awhile to even find out what the state flag looked like.) Actually, Texas history IS pretty interesting since so many of those people were BATSHIT INSANE, but that gets played down a lot in school.  :lol:

I pulled Jamestown out of my ass and then googled before I read the thread. Yeah, I know the Spanish explorers were here way before that, but I didn't really think of them in terms of "permanent settlement." More like "loot and scoot". :x But yeah, should have remembered the missions, etc. That would have been a clue.

I don't think I even knew what our flag looked like until I got to high school.

That's because our flag sucks.

Quote from: Suu on October 03, 2013, 01:49:30 AM
Also, if you ever get the chance to make it to St. Augustine, it's fucking GORGEOUS. It's one of the state's unsung places, because most of the tourists go to swampy ass Orlando for the Rat or Miami for the dirty beaches. Most of St. Augustine's Old City hasn't changed much. It's very European and not at all what you would expect in Florida.

I was a me to go there because a distant cousin-in-law got married in Daytona. We escaped for a day, and found St Augustine to be a refuge. I've been to Jacksonville , Miami, Orlando, Daytona, and St Augustine. I hated it all, but I'd take St Augustine gladly over the rest.

Quote from: Sita on October 03, 2013, 03:24:24 AM

Quote from: Suu on October 02, 2013, 09:46:11 PM

Quote from: Sita on October 02, 2013, 08:48:19 PM

Quote from: Suu on October 02, 2013, 07:21:56 PM

Quote from: Cain on October 02, 2013, 07:16:19 PM
WASPs dominate understanding of history!

No, I know what you're saying.  But in some ways, you have to admit, the Spanish getting ignored is entirely unsurprising.

Unless you grow up in Florida, then half of your state history is Spanish colonialism, rather than English. Though the English did eventually take St. Augustine and played quite a large part in Florida as well. Florida history is actually REALLY interesting, considering how the state is looked upon now. For example, it's the Cross of Burgundy in the state flag, NOT the Confederate Battle Flag like the other southern states. And technically the first settlement in Florida was Fort Caroline which is now Jacksonville. It was by French Huguenots who got annihilated by the Spanish. So it's a lost settlement, like Roanoke, but we know what happened to them.

Surprisingly the history about my own state was rarely touched on while I was in school :( I never learned any of that.

Florida History was mandatory for us in 4th Grade, 5th Grade, 8th Grade (concurrent with American History), and 11th Grade (concurrent with American History.) But I also grew up in Liberal Tampa Bay pre-NCLB. Most school districts from what I understand were not as fortunate as Hillsborough and Pinellas County, where Penny for Pinellas pays for keeping the schools in pretty good shape.

I grew up in Tampa as well (c/o '99 here). If we had Florida history my teachers sucked at teaching it.

C/O 2000, here. Where the fuck did you go? Blake?

Quote from: Sad Sack on October 03, 2013, 03:54:11 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 03:51:03 AM

Quote from: stelz on October 03, 2013, 03:39:22 AM
We had a metric fuckton of Texas history in school, the teachers were Hank Hill reverent about the shit - kind of like the way you see Texas flags all over the place. (When I lived in Mass, it took me awhile to even find out what the state flag looked like.) Actually, Texas history IS pretty interesting since so many of those people were BATSHIT INSANE, but that gets played down a lot in school.  :lol:

I pulled Jamestown out of my ass and then googled before I read the thread. Yeah, I know the Spanish explorers were here way before that, but I didn't really think of them in terms of "permanent settlement." More like "loot and scoot". :x But yeah, should have remembered the missions, etc. That would have been a clue.

I don't think I even knew what our flag looked like until I got to high school.

That's because our flag sucks.

Well, yeah, we're the one state with a Native on our flag and no Natives. Except out by Natick, I think.

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 04:22:54 AM

Quote from: Sad Sack on October 03, 2013, 03:54:11 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 03:51:03 AM

Quote from: stelz on October 03, 2013, 03:39:22 AM
We had a metric fuckton of Texas history in school, the teachers were Hank Hill reverent about the shit - kind of like the way you see Texas flags all over the place. (When I lived in Mass, it took me awhile to even find out what the state flag looked like.) Actually, Texas history IS pretty interesting since so many of those people were BATSHIT INSANE, but that gets played down a lot in school.  :lol:

I pulled Jamestown out of my ass and then googled before I read the thread. Yeah, I know the Spanish explorers were here way before that, but I didn't really think of them in terms of "permanent settlement." More like "loot and scoot". :x But yeah, should have remembered the missions, etc. That would have been a clue.

I don't think I even knew what our flag looked like until I got to high school.

That's because our flag sucks.

Well, yeah, we're the one state with a Native on our flag and no Natives. Except out by Natick, I think.

All the Wampanoags are on the South Shore. You know, around Plymouth, where they lived.

Quote from: Suu on October 03, 2013, 04:26:46 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 04:22:54 AM

Quote from: Sad Sack on October 03, 2013, 03:54:11 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 03:51:03 AM

Quote from: stelz on October 03, 2013, 03:39:22 AM
We had a metric fuckton of Texas history in school, the teachers were Hank Hill reverent about the shit - kind of like the way you see Texas flags all over the place. (When I lived in Mass, it took me awhile to even find out what the state flag looked like.) Actually, Texas history IS pretty interesting since so many of those people were BATSHIT INSANE, but that gets played down a lot in school.  :lol:

I pulled Jamestown out of my ass and then googled before I read the thread. Yeah, I know the Spanish explorers were here way before that, but I didn't really think of them in terms of "permanent settlement." More like "loot and scoot". :x But yeah, should have remembered the missions, etc. That would have been a clue.

I don't think I even knew what our flag looked like until I got to high school.

That's because our flag sucks.

Well, yeah, we're the one state with a Native on our flag and no Natives. Except out by Natick, I think.

All the Wampanoags are on the South Shore. You know, around Plymouth, where they lived.

They're still there?

Quote from: Suu on October 03, 2013, 04:12:15 AM

Quote from: Sita on October 03, 2013, 03:24:24 AM

Quote from: Suu on October 02, 2013, 09:46:11 PM

Quote from: Sita on October 02, 2013, 08:48:19 PM

Quote from: Suu on October 02, 2013, 07:21:56 PM

Quote from: Cain on October 02, 2013, 07:16:19 PM
WASPs dominate understanding of history!

No, I know what you're saying.  But in some ways, you have to admit, the Spanish getting ignored is entirely unsurprising.

Unless you grow up in Florida, then half of your state history is Spanish colonialism, rather than English. Though the English did eventually take St. Augustine and played quite a large part in Florida as well. Florida history is actually REALLY interesting, considering how the state is looked upon now. For example, it's the Cross of Burgundy in the state flag, NOT the Confederate Battle Flag like the other southern states. And technically the first settlement in Florida was Fort Caroline which is now Jacksonville. It was by French Huguenots who got annihilated by the Spanish. So it's a lost settlement, like Roanoke, but we know what happened to them.

Surprisingly the history about my own state was rarely touched on while I was in school :( I never learned any of that.

Florida History was mandatory for us in 4th Grade, 5th Grade, 8th Grade (concurrent with American History), and 11th Grade (concurrent with American History.) But I also grew up in Liberal Tampa Bay pre-NCLB. Most school districts from what I understand were not as fortunate as Hillsborough and Pinellas County, where Penny for Pinellas pays for keeping the schools in pretty good shape.

I grew up in Tampa as well (c/o '99 here). If we had Florida history my teachers sucked at teaching it.

C/O 2000, here. Where the fuck did you go? Blake?

Actually did go to Blake in 7th grade (when it was just a 7th grade center). 8th was at Adams. High school was at TBT (9-11) and Leto for senior year.

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 04:33:55 AM

Quote from: Suu on October 03, 2013, 04:26:46 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 04:22:54 AM

Quote from: Sad Sack on October 03, 2013, 03:54:11 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 03:51:03 AM

Quote from: stelz on October 03, 2013, 03:39:22 AM
We had a metric fuckton of Texas history in school, the teachers were Hank Hill reverent about the shit - kind of like the way you see Texas flags all over the place. (When I lived in Mass, it took me awhile to even find out what the state flag looked like.) Actually, Texas history IS pretty interesting since so many of those people were BATSHIT INSANE, but that gets played down a lot in school.  :lol:

I pulled Jamestown out of my ass and then googled before I read the thread. Yeah, I know the Spanish explorers were here way before that, but I didn't really think of them in terms of "permanent settlement." More like "loot and scoot". :x But yeah, should have remembered the missions, etc. That would have been a clue.

I don't think I even knew what our flag looked like until I got to high school.

That's because our flag sucks.

Well, yeah, we're the one state with a Native on our flag and no Natives. Except out by Natick, I think.

All the Wampanoags are on the South Shore. You know, around Plymouth, where they lived.

They're still there?

IIRC, there was about five of them until they changed the blood quantum rule to 1/16 or something.

And I thought the Mass flag was WAY cooler than the Texas flag, which looks like a short bus version of the stars and stripes.

The Abanaque (or however it's spelled) are still trying to get recognition as a thing, there's a bunch of them living in Massachusetts too.

Quote from: stelz on October 03, 2013, 05:07:49 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 04:33:55 AM

Quote from: Suu on October 03, 2013, 04:26:46 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 04:22:54 AM

Quote from: Sad Sack on October 03, 2013, 03:54:11 AM

Quote from: Twigel on October 03, 2013, 03:51:03 AM

Quote from: stelz on October 03, 2013, 03:39:22 AM
We had a metric fuckton of Texas history in school, the teachers were Hank Hill reverent about the shit - kind of like the way you see Texas flags all over the place. (When I lived in Mass, it took me awhile to even find out what the state flag looked like.) Actually, Texas history IS pretty interesting since so many of those people were BATSHIT INSANE, but that gets played down a lot in school.  :lol:

I pulled Jamestown out of my ass and then googled before I read the thread. Yeah, I know the Spanish explorers were here way before that, but I didn't really think of them in terms of "permanent settlement." More like "loot and scoot". :x But yeah, should have remembered the missions, etc. That would have been a clue.

I don't think I even knew what our flag looked like until I got to high school.

That's because our flag sucks.

Well, yeah, we're the one state with a Native on our flag and no Natives. Except out by Natick, I think.

All the Wampanoags are on the South Shore. You know, around Plymouth, where they lived.

They're still there?

IIRC, there was about five of them until they changed the blood quantum rule to 1/16 or something.

And I thought the Mass flag was WAY cooler than the Texas flag, which looks like a short bus version of the stars and stripes.

I gotta admit, I'm not terribly fond of bland flags. When I was in high school, I hung the Union Flag up in my room (because of Iron Maiden concert) and dad told me I now had to get the Tricolour. I said I wouldn't because it was a boring looking flag.

Twid,
Has the flag with the coats of arms of the 4 provinces of Ireland instead.

ETA: I consider the Stars and Stripes to not only be boring but also ugly. Stars and bars don't tickle my pickle, as it were. I do consider the Soviet flag aesthetically pleasing, but also boring.

Quote from: Sad Sack on October 03, 2013, 05:10:37 AM
The Abanaque (or however it's spelled) are still trying to get recognition as a thing, there's a bunch of them living in Massachusetts too.

We hide them well, I guess.

Last time I saw people who represented Natives in the flesh was when they were protesting the fact that it was still technically illegal for them to be on Boston Common.

Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 03, 2013, 05:20:10 AM

Quote from: Sad Sack on October 03, 2013, 05:10:37 AM
The Abanaque (or however it's spelled) are still trying to get recognition as a thing, there's a bunch of them living in Massachusetts too.

We hide them well, I guess.

Last time I saw people who represented Natives in the flesh was when they were protesting the fact that it was still technically illegal for them to be on Boston Common.

Abenaki. That was the larger tribe that lived in the Upper Three. All his archaeological work in VT was on Abenaki sites, but I think one site he did have in Central MA may have been also.

I'm still very confused as to how the Narragansetts work in RI.  I was told that they denounced their tribal status and have no reservation, but they do have a reservation, but they can't have anything tax-free or a casino because it's against state law. Either way, they pissed off someone or vice versa. It's complex and seems rather nasty. The whole 2 members of the Narragansett tribe I have met also seemed like miserable human beings and didn't strike me at all like previous natives I have met in the Seminole, Shinnecock, and Wampanoag tribes. Probably because RI makes them so fucking miserable. :( All I did was get excited that I had met a couple from the local tribe, and they got really bitchy toward me. :(

Quote from: Suu on October 08, 2013, 04:39:29 PM

Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 03, 2013, 05:20:10 AM

Quote from: Sad Sack on October 03, 2013, 05:10:37 AM
The Abanaque (or however it's spelled) are still trying to get recognition as a thing, there's a bunch of them living in Massachusetts too.

We hide them well, I guess.

Last time I saw people who represented Natives in the flesh was when they were protesting the fact that it was still technically illegal for them to be on Boston Common.

Abenaki. That was the larger tribe that lived in the Upper Three. All his archaeological work in VT was on Abenaki sites, but I think one site he did have in Central MA may have been also.

I'm still very confused as to how the Narragansetts work in RI.  I was told that they denounced their tribal status and have no reservation, but they do have a reservation, but they can't have anything tax-free or a casino because it's against state law. Either way, they pissed off someone or vice versa. It's complex and seems rather nasty. The whole 2 members of the Narragansett tribe I have met also seemed like miserable human beings and didn't strike me at all like previous natives I have met in the Seminole, Shinnecock, and Wampanoag tribes. Probably because RI makes them so fucking miserable. :( All I did was get excited that I had met a couple from the local tribe, and they got really bitchy toward me. :(

Some people have a lower threshold than others for being treated like novelties by white people, I guess.

Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 08, 2013, 04:43:45 PM

Quote from: Suu on October 08, 2013, 04:39:29 PM

Quote from: Doktor Blight on October 03, 2013, 05:20:10 AM

Quote from: Sad Sack on October 03, 2013, 05:10:37 AM
The Abanaque (or however it's spelled) are still trying to get recognition as a thing, there's a bunch of them living in Massachusetts too.

We hide them well, I guess.

Last time I saw people who represented Natives in the flesh was when they were protesting the fact that it was still technically illegal for them to be on Boston Common.

Abenaki. That was the larger tribe that lived in the Upper Three. All his archaeological work in VT was on Abenaki sites, but I think one site he did have in Central MA may have been also.

I'm still very confused as to how the Narragansetts work in RI.  I was told that they denounced their tribal status and have no reservation, but they do have a reservation, but they can't have anything tax-free or a casino because it's against state law. Either way, they pissed off someone or vice versa. It's complex and seems rather nasty. The whole 2 members of the Narragansett tribe I have met also seemed like miserable human beings and didn't strike me at all like previous natives I have met in the Seminole, Shinnecock, and Wampanoag tribes. Probably because RI makes them so fucking miserable. :( All I did was get excited that I had met a couple from the local tribe, and they got really bitchy toward me. :(

Some people have a lower threshold than others for being treated like novelties by white people, I guess.

Well, when you are introduced to them as, "These are so and so, who are somebody so and so important from the Narragansett tribe, and this is Suu, she is new to the area from Florida" did they expect me to not care? I had lived here for like, a month at the time. I'm meeting new and exciting people and cultures, I had no idea of the bullshit the poor tribe goes through, so excuse me. Everybody has bad days, which is what I chalked it up to be.