So I've nurtured an interest in science fiction that presents a non-western aesthetic and culture since childhood. Like any good nerd I love Star Trek, BSG, yadda yadda yadda, but watching the original Star Wars trilogy and Dune really captivated my imagination and sent me into a tizzy of ".......I want to go to there." I dug the Otherness of their worlds. A couple of nights ago I watched the new Will Smith picture "After Earth" (I know) and it was, as you may well have imagined, a Godawful double serving of abortion-cobbler (I KNOW!) but recognized that wondrous paleo-future vibe and makes my little heart as gay as springtime. Gone were the mandatory automatic doors which adorn every good, stale and sanitized spaceship in the galaxy and instead in their place were hanging palm leaves standing as barrier between the chambers. And with that an old flame within me was reignited. Does anyone else know of any novels, movies, or tv shows that don't follow the path laid out by Clark and Roddenberry and instead opted to go with a more tribalistic (primitive is a culturally biased as fuck term but it does evoke what I'm going for) interpretation of humanities future amongst the stars? I'd also adore anything Asiatic, Middle Eastern, or whatever. Any recommendations would be much appreciated. :wink:
I recently finished Stephen King's The Gunslinger (I Know) but was rather surprised at how much I enjoyed it. It's supposed to be King's magnum opus. It's a western with elements of science fiction and magic. Its the one freshest in my mind so if I think of any more, I'll let you know.
The whole Dark Tower series is so money, my greatest fear/hope is that Hollywood will finally get to filming it. I highly recommend you continue with it Sir and or Madam
Thanks, I will. I have it on a couple of folks' opinions that it's fantastic. I tend to go by Sir, btw.
OH and you might consider David Wong's John Dies at the End....it might not give you that vibe you're looking for but the scifi is more horror/organic. Plus it's funny as hell.
http://listverse.com/2009/02/12/10-great-post-apocalyptic-science-fiction-novels/
this might help
I'm confused. What does any of this have to do with the O'Hare airport?
That said, I suggest the Gor series.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 11, 2013, 03:05:53 PM
I'm confused. What does any of this have to do with the O'Hare airport?
That said, I suggest the Gor series.
Meh. Misogyny porn.
The Horselords.
The Road Warrior Trilogy.
Outland. (Sean Connery as SPACE VICE COP, great chase scene).
I meant that as a joke, FWIW.
As far as "primitive Sci fi", perhaps Anathem? Quantum physics as presented in a world where the physicists are Franciscan monks.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 11, 2013, 05:15:42 PM
I meant that as a joke, FWIW.
I was hoping so.
Christ, 1960s/70s written SF SUCKED MONKEY BALLS.
Those all sound great and give me teh supple literary erection which poets have long searched for, but post apocalyptic isn't quite what I mean. What I mean is advanced civilizations that are not western in nature. Like if the Yanomami people of the Amazon or the Iroquois confederacy had developed the internal combustion engine or warp drives instead of the west. There was a recent string of books that did this to varying degrees from a Middle Eastern perspective like "Alif the Unseen". But I'm not even sure if the tribal sci-fi that I'm looking for is even a thing, perhaps it is the new fabled literary erection of our time
Quote from: Buckaroo Banzai on October 12, 2013, 12:07:57 AM
Those all sound great and give me teh supple literary erection which poets have long searched for, but post apocalyptic isn't quite what I mean. What I mean is advanced civilizations that are not western in nature. Like if the Yanomami people of the Amazon or the Iroquois confederacy had developed the internal combustion engine or warp drives instead of the west. There was a recent string of books that did this to varying degrees from a Middle Eastern perspective like "Alif the Unseen". But I'm not even sure if the tribal sci-fi that I'm looking for is even a thing, perhaps it is the new fabled literary erection of our time
Yeah, done with this thread.
Does Stargate count? Its definitely not tribalistic but most of the motifs are modeled off of ancient Egypt rather than standard sci-fi decor
Um. Buck, has it occurred to you that there are non-western authors that currently exist, and that they write science fiction that are culturally non-western-based?
More to the point, do you understand that non-western cultures are not automatically "tribal"?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 13, 2013, 05:07:18 AM
Um. Buck, has it occurred to you that there are non-western authors that currently exist, and that they write science fiction that are culturally non-western-based?
More to the point, do you understand that non-western cultures are not automatically "tribal"?
Of course not all non-western cultures are tribal, and would love to read more sci-fi stories written about them, but the point of my post was to try and find it any sci-fi stories exist about technologically advanced tribal civilizations. As I said, if one of Earths many low-tech tribal civs and developed advanced technology
Hm. It seems the trick here is that they FOUND technology.
I'd hazard a guess that a culture that develops advanced tech would, in the process, lose their "tribality".
Roger, wasn't that a theme in one of your pre-Charley-fallout stories?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 16, 2013, 02:53:20 AM
Hm. It seems the trick here is that they FOUND technology.
I'd hazard a guess that a culture that develops advanced tech would, in the process, lose their "tribality".
Roger, wasn't that a theme in one of your pre-Charley-fallout stories?
Tech that was advanced ENOUGH might actually encourage tribalism. For example, imagine a world where we take sustainability issues seriously, and as a result start focusing on food regions and local economies. Everyone's connected to the internet, everyone has access to fairly high levels of education, and the population has gone through a period of decline before stabilizing. What we might end up with is cities, surrounded by farmland, in which most people live, work, and attend school within their neighborhoods. A city would, in a sense, become a coalition of tribes, with each tribe recognizable by its neighborhood.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 16, 2013, 02:53:20 AM
Hm. It seems the trick here is that they FOUND technology.
I'd hazard a guess that a culture that develops advanced tech would, in the process, lose their "tribality".
Roger, wasn't that a theme in one of your pre-Charley-fallout stories?
Hmmm, I'd say not necessarily in regards to tribality being a transitional stage into a society like ours. That presupposes that cultural evolution somehow as an inevitable set end result. The society we live in today is really something of happy accident.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 16, 2013, 03:08:11 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 16, 2013, 02:53:20 AM
Hm. It seems the trick here is that they FOUND technology.
I'd hazard a guess that a culture that develops advanced tech would, in the process, lose their "tribality".
Roger, wasn't that a theme in one of your pre-Charley-fallout stories?
Tech that was advanced ENOUGH might actually encourage tribalism. For example, imagine a world where we take sustainability issues seriously, and as a result start focusing on food regions and local economies. Everyone's connected to the internet, everyone has access to fairly high levels of education, and the population has gone through a period of decline before stabilizing. What we might end up with is cities, surrounded by farmland, in which most people live, work, and attend school within their neighborhoods. A city would, in a sense, become a coalition of tribes, with each tribe recognizable by its neighborhood.
Indeed! I'd read the hell out of a story set in a world like that. While I'm not sure how likely this is it certainly seem possible to me. As an anthropologist I'd also argue that humans fundamentally drifts toward a tribal state and we subconsciously try to recreate it through social clicks, trends, nations, ect.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 16, 2013, 02:53:20 AM
Hm. It seems the trick here is that they FOUND technology.
I'd hazard a guess that a culture that develops advanced tech would, in the process, lose their "tribality".
Roger, wasn't that a theme in one of your pre-Charley-fallout stories?
Fuck if I know. The only story I can remember from that time is the train robbers thing.
Or maybe the King Pellinore bit.
I dimly recall that the aliens in the train robbers story didn't really know how it worked, because it was found. Or something.
I'm probably mixing this up with something else.
Ah. District 9, perhaps?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on October 16, 2013, 03:54:45 PM
I dimly recall that the aliens in the train robbers story didn't really know how it worked, because it was found. Or something.
I'm probably mixing this up with something else.
Ah. District 9, perhaps?
Actually, they didn't know how it worked because it worked so well that it never needed to be fixed.
So more like Pump Six.
-
Quote from: Cain on October 16, 2013, 04:02:04 PM
Uh, Firefly? You had the Reavers, who were basically every nightmare of the "brutish savage" rolled into one, and some very uneven technological distribution. It wasn't "primitive", but it was very frontier (which was, of course, the whole point).
Yeah, and that's as tribal as you get, story-wise, even if it's a western in space.
But the OP is looking for a "literary erection", so, you know, take it for what it's worth.
-
Quote from: Cain on October 16, 2013, 04:06:03 PM
Yeah, I saw that. I agree with the criticisms posted afterwards.
I don't think BB is actually an anthropologist.
This thread actually reminded me of a story idea i had: the concepts was there was a highly intelligent insectile race, with the intellect, drive and will to create advanced technology, but no concept of society. they are born alone, raise themselves, feed themselves, teach themselves and whatever they create in their lifetime is ultimately lost, because it either goes unfinished or is looted by some other insect who wants their raw materials for their own project. Basically it's what a race of people would LITERALLY have to be in order to truly be everything that RUGGED INDIVIDUALISTS claim to be.
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 16, 2013, 08:52:09 PM
This thread actually reminded me of a story idea i had: the concepts was there was a highly intelligent insectile race, with the intellect, drive and will to create advanced technology, but no concept of society. they are born alone, raise themselves, feed themselves, teach themselves and whatever they create in their lifetime is ultimately lost, because it either goes unfinished or is looted by some other insect who wants their raw materials for their own project. Basically it's what a race of people would LITERALLY have to be in order to truly be everything that RUGGED INDIVIDUALISTS claim to be.
If they don't pass on their knowledge to others, they don't get past the "picking up a sharp rock" stage.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 16, 2013, 08:52:09 PM
This thread actually reminded me of a story idea i had: the concepts was there was a highly intelligent insectile race, with the intellect, drive and will to create advanced technology, but no concept of society. they are born alone, raise themselves, feed themselves, teach themselves and whatever they create in their lifetime is ultimately lost, because it either goes unfinished or is looted by some other insect who wants their raw materials for their own project. Basically it's what a race of people would LITERALLY have to be in order to truly be everything that RUGGED INDIVIDUALISTS claim to be.
If they don't pass on their knowledge to others, they don't get past the "picking up a sharp rock" stage.
the way i pictured it, they function kinda like the Brain Bugs from Starship Troopers, they can attack other members of their species and learn what they know by eating the loser's brain. This triggers the insect's body to disintegrate, leaving an egg that will hatch into another insect, who will know only some of what their parent did.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 04:03:36 PM
But the OP is looking for a "literary erection", so, you know, take it for what it's worth.
Whoa whoa whoa buddy, I said "
supple literary erection", I am no cretin, I have a collection of smoking pipes which receive intermediate use thankyouverymuchly
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 04:08:14 PM
I don't think BB is actually an anthropologist.
My degree and status as an unemployed person beg to differ sir
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 16, 2013, 08:52:09 PM
This thread actually reminded me of a story idea i had: the concepts was there was a highly intelligent insectile race, with the intellect, drive and will to create advanced technology, but no concept of society. they are born alone, raise themselves, feed themselves, teach themselves and whatever they create in their lifetime is ultimately lost, because it either goes unfinished or is looted by some other insect who wants their raw materials for their own project. Basically it's what a race of people would LITERALLY have to be in order to truly be everything that RUGGED INDIVIDUALISTS claim to be.
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 16, 2013, 09:23:15 PM
the way i pictured it, they function kinda like the Brain Bugs from Starship Troopers, they can attack other members of their species and learn what they know by eating the loser's brain. This triggers the insect's body to disintegrate, leaving an egg that will hatch into another insect, who will know only some of what their parent did.
That sounds like a fantastic moral parable the likes of which old school Trek used to play with. A race whose existence is both fantastic and futile, who together could conquer the cosmos and leave a legacy amongst the stars if banded together but on their own are cursed with the Sisyphean task to reinvent the wheel. Would read
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 16, 2013, 08:52:09 PM
This thread actually reminded me of a story idea i had: the concepts was there was a highly intelligent insectile race, with the intellect, drive and will to create advanced technology, but no concept of society. they are born alone, raise themselves, feed themselves, teach themselves and whatever they create in their lifetime is ultimately lost, because it either goes unfinished or is looted by some other insect who wants their raw materials for their own project. Basically it's what a race of people would LITERALLY have to be in order to truly be everything that RUGGED INDIVIDUALISTS claim to be.
If they don't pass on their knowledge to others, they don't get past the "picking up a sharp rock" stage.
They could if they were phenomenally intelligent or phenomenally durable and long-lived
Quote from: Buckaroo Banzai on October 11, 2013, 05:17:29 AM
So I've nurtured an interest in science fiction that presents a non-western aesthetic and culture since childhood. Like any good nerd I love Star Trek, BSG, yadda yadda yadda, but watching the original Star Wars trilogy and Dune really captivated my imagination and sent me into a tizzy of ".......I want to go to there." I dug the Otherness of their worlds. A couple of nights ago I watched the new Will Smith picture "After Earth" (I know) and it was, as you may well have imagined, a Godawful double serving of abortion-cobbler (I KNOW!) but recognized that wondrous paleo-future vibe and makes my little heart as gay as springtime. Gone were the mandatory automatic doors which adorn every good, stale and sanitized spaceship in the galaxy and instead in their place were hanging palm leaves standing as barrier between the chambers. And with that an old flame within me was reignited. Does anyone else know of any novels, movies, or tv shows that don't follow the path laid out by Clark and Roddenberry and instead opted to go with a more tribalistic (primitive is a culturally biased as fuck term but it does evoke what I'm going for) interpretation of humanities future amongst the stars? I'd also adore anything Asiatic, Middle Eastern, or whatever. Any recommendations would be much appreciated. :wink:
Lexx. It features the most powerfully destructive ship in sci-fi.
It also features sexualisation of both the male and female characters, which the semi autistic sexless genre that is sci-fi fails to do.
Bonus clip: Robot lovin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX_CluTr_qc
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on October 20, 2013, 09:50:44 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 16, 2013, 08:52:09 PM
This thread actually reminded me of a story idea i had: the concepts was there was a highly intelligent insectile race, with the intellect, drive and will to create advanced technology, but no concept of society. they are born alone, raise themselves, feed themselves, teach themselves and whatever they create in their lifetime is ultimately lost, because it either goes unfinished or is looted by some other insect who wants their raw materials for their own project. Basically it's what a race of people would LITERALLY have to be in order to truly be everything that RUGGED INDIVIDUALISTS claim to be.
If they don't pass on their knowledge to others, they don't get past the "picking up a sharp rock" stage.
They could if they were phenomenally intelligent or phenomenally durable and long-lived
Yea, in my mind i picture them looking sort of like the collectors from Mass Effect but with a shiny, obsidian, beetle like carapace. They're so durable that there's not many animals on their planet that can pierce their shells. As for life span, i hadn't decided if they should live for over a century, or just have a really stable population since they're sorta "reborn" when they die, remembering much of what their parent learned, if not the firsthand experiences.
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on October 20, 2013, 09:50:44 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 16, 2013, 08:52:09 PM
This thread actually reminded me of a story idea i had: the concepts was there was a highly intelligent insectile race, with the intellect, drive and will to create advanced technology, but no concept of society. they are born alone, raise themselves, feed themselves, teach themselves and whatever they create in their lifetime is ultimately lost, because it either goes unfinished or is looted by some other insect who wants their raw materials for their own project. Basically it's what a race of people would LITERALLY have to be in order to truly be everything that RUGGED INDIVIDUALISTS claim to be.
If they don't pass on their knowledge to others, they don't get past the "picking up a sharp rock" stage.
They could if they were phenomenally intelligent or phenomenally durable and long-lived
All the combined knowledge of millions of people has taken us thousands of years to get this far. I think that one dude achieving much by way of technology all by itself, even if it lived for centuries, is pretty unbelievable. Cooperation and culture, essential components of being social animals, are largely responsible for our level of technological achievement. Furthermore, our large and complex social groups are responsible for our intelligence in the first place. There's no real reason for a solitary animal to develop a high level of intellect.
Quote from: Not Your Nigel on October 22, 2013, 01:17:40 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on October 20, 2013, 09:50:44 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 16, 2013, 08:52:09 PM
This thread actually reminded me of a story idea i had: the concepts was there was a highly intelligent insectile race, with the intellect, drive and will to create advanced technology, but no concept of society. they are born alone, raise themselves, feed themselves, teach themselves and whatever they create in their lifetime is ultimately lost, because it either goes unfinished or is looted by some other insect who wants their raw materials for their own project. Basically it's what a race of people would LITERALLY have to be in order to truly be everything that RUGGED INDIVIDUALISTS claim to be.
If they don't pass on their knowledge to others, they don't get past the "picking up a sharp rock" stage.
They could if they were phenomenally intelligent or phenomenally durable and long-lived
All the combined knowledge of millions of people has taken us thousands of years to get this far. I think that one dude achieving much by way of technology all by itself, even if it lived for centuries, is pretty unbelievable. Cooperation and culture, essential components of being social animals, are largely responsible for our level of technological achievement. Furthermore, our large and complex social groups are responsible for our intelligence in the first place. There's no real reason for a solitary animal to develop a high level of intellect.
Yep. The trick is accumulated knowledge. People in the middle ages were smarter than us, which should be reasonably obvious. But without that accumulated knowledge, we remember them as hod-carriers and filthy peasants, with the occasional psychopath in mail armor.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 22, 2013, 01:17:40 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on October 20, 2013, 09:50:44 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 16, 2013, 08:52:09 PM
This thread actually reminded me of a story idea i had: the concepts was there was a highly intelligent insectile race, with the intellect, drive and will to create advanced technology, but no concept of society. they are born alone, raise themselves, feed themselves, teach themselves and whatever they create in their lifetime is ultimately lost, because it either goes unfinished or is looted by some other insect who wants their raw materials for their own project. Basically it's what a race of people would LITERALLY have to be in order to truly be everything that RUGGED INDIVIDUALISTS claim to be.
If they don't pass on their knowledge to others, they don't get past the "picking up a sharp rock" stage.
They could if they were phenomenally intelligent or phenomenally durable and long-lived
All the combined knowledge of millions of people has taken us thousands of years to get this far. I think that one dude achieving much by way of technology all by itself, even if it lived for centuries,
I agree with this as written. It could however achieve centuries worth of technology if it lived for centuries. (or thousands of years worth if it lived for thousands of years).
Especially if, as I said before, they were much smarter than humans.
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on October 28, 2013, 02:12:24 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 22, 2013, 01:17:40 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on October 20, 2013, 09:50:44 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 16, 2013, 08:52:09 PM
This thread actually reminded me of a story idea i had: the concepts was there was a highly intelligent insectile race, with the intellect, drive and will to create advanced technology, but no concept of society. they are born alone, raise themselves, feed themselves, teach themselves and whatever they create in their lifetime is ultimately lost, because it either goes unfinished or is looted by some other insect who wants their raw materials for their own project. Basically it's what a race of people would LITERALLY have to be in order to truly be everything that RUGGED INDIVIDUALISTS claim to be.
If they don't pass on their knowledge to others, they don't get past the "picking up a sharp rock" stage.
They could if they were phenomenally intelligent or phenomenally durable and long-lived
All the combined knowledge of millions of people has taken us thousands of years to get this far. I think that one dude achieving much by way of technology all by itself, even if it lived for centuries,
I agree with this as written. It could however achieve centuries worth of technology if it lived for centuries. (or thousands of years worth if it lived for thousands of years).
Especially if, as I said before, they were much smarter than humans.
Sure.
But most high technology is also socially driven. Communication and travel technologies, for example. Medical technologies.
And again, the reason all highly intelligent species we have so far observed developed their giant brains is specifically because they are social, which requires far more complex levels of processing than solitary survival. So I would find it impossible to suspend disbelief.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 28, 2013, 04:30:38 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on October 28, 2013, 02:12:24 AM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on October 22, 2013, 01:17:40 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on October 20, 2013, 09:50:44 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on October 16, 2013, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on October 16, 2013, 08:52:09 PM
This thread actually reminded me of a story idea i had: the concepts was there was a highly intelligent insectile race, with the intellect, drive and will to create advanced technology, but no concept of society. they are born alone, raise themselves, feed themselves, teach themselves and whatever they create in their lifetime is ultimately lost, because it either goes unfinished or is looted by some other insect who wants their raw materials for their own project. Basically it's what a race of people would LITERALLY have to be in order to truly be everything that RUGGED INDIVIDUALISTS claim to be.
If they don't pass on their knowledge to others, they don't get past the "picking up a sharp rock" stage.
They could if they were phenomenally intelligent or phenomenally durable and long-lived
All the combined knowledge of millions of people has taken us thousands of years to get this far. I think that one dude achieving much by way of technology all by itself, even if it lived for centuries,
I agree with this as written. It could however achieve centuries worth of technology if it lived for centuries. (or thousands of years worth if it lived for thousands of years).
Especially if, as I said before, they were much smarter than humans.
Sure.
But most high technology is also socially driven. Communication and travel technologies, for example. Medical technologies.
And again, the reason all highly intelligent species we have so far observed developed their giant brains is specifically because they are social, which requires far more complex levels of processing than solitary survival. So I would find it impossible to suspend disbelief.
What if they had an intelligent social species somewhere in their evolutionary background?
Yea, the point of the allegory is the value of society, as well as imagining a divergent evolutionary path from our own. These creatures could achieve so much if they could work and live together, yet because of the way they evolved, their potential is squandered bickering over resources and wasting their entire lives trying to accomplish things on their own they could easily do if they had that millions of years of societal knowledge to draw from. Their planets are littered with unfinished projects: journals written in languages only one person ever spoke, machines built from scrapped parts from other machines that built from scrapped parts etc. the net result of their efforts is that their planet looks like its covered in ruins, only they move about and change because the individuals aren't done with them yet. Also consider the possibility that as insects they could have much faster metabolisms than mammals so that they can get more done per lifetime than we might.
In the hands of a skilled enough writer, anything could work. What-ifs are the domain of science fiction, after all.