Okay, so our safety committee (which I am no longer part of, thank God) has decided to have a health fair thingie today. It includes a chiropractor (which I don't recognize as a valid thing, but many people do, and if it makes them feel better, then what the hell, right?), a massage guy (valid), a nuitritionist (very valid), a smoking cessation dude (excellent)...
And
AND
AND
...An acupuncturist.
Because apparently God or natural selection or whatever forgot to put needles into us at various places where they are required. Now, normally, I file this under "chiropractor" (if it works, who cares if it's real?), but this one is over there babbling about chakras. To blue collar types.
I am restraining myself, but it's only a matter of time before I snap and head over there for a consultation.
It will not be the most prudent thing I've done this month.
It will, however, amuse me to no fucking end.
So, how'd it go, porcupine man?
When opportunity knocks... :lulz:
Quote from: holist on November 12, 2013, 04:21:29 PM
So, how'd it go, porcupine man?
Hasn't. They're not done setting up yet.
Oh, sorry. I got mixed up with timing, once again. Do tell when!
Quote from: holist on November 12, 2013, 04:24:10 PM
Oh, sorry. I got mixed up with timing, once again. Do tell when!
I'm not getting stuck anyway. I'm going to ask the nice lady some questions. :)
While I'm skeptical, I actually place the Truth Value of acupuncture over 50%. That is, I have found slightly more evidence supporting some sort of beneficial effect from acupuncture than against. At least enough to throw the issue into doubt.
Although the chakra thing is grounds for immediate disqualification.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 12, 2013, 04:26:16 PM
Although the chakra thing is grounds for immediate disqualification.
And that's the bit that has my Horrible Bastard gland going.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 12, 2013, 04:27:40 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 12, 2013, 04:26:16 PM
Although the chakra thing is grounds for immediate disqualification.
And that's the bit that has my Horrible Bastard gland going.
You're just upset that it's because these people don't recognise that your back hair has its own chakra. Admit it. It tangles your extremely hirsute chi.
:popcorn:
My boss said I can't go. :cry:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 12, 2013, 06:14:31 PM
My boss said I can't go. :cry:
Your boss is an unbelievable asshole who wants you to die in unimaginable ways. Evil bastard. He wants to keep all the Health and Safety and Chi and Back Twisty Cracking to himself.
He'll probably ram each of them into one of his chakras, if only to pretend for a short time that he has Wrong Values.
No! You have to go! The tangling of chi and meridians and the unbelievable tension in your pressure points is creating a block in your lymph nodes. ACUPUNCTURE AND CHIROPRACTY CAN CURE CANCER! HE IS DENING YOU LIFE-SAVING MEDICINE.
That sadist bastard. :cry:
He says I'll RUIN EVERYTHING.
Hey, he's not a stupid man, after all. :lulz:
HE'S OBVIOUSLY TRYING TO KILL YOU.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 12, 2013, 06:33:23 PM
HE'S OBVIOUSLY TRYING TO KILL YOU.
Well, none of YOU bastards will. :rogpipe:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 12, 2013, 06:31:06 PM
He says I'll RUIN EVERYTHING.
Hey, he's not a stupid man, after all. :lulz:
I guess he DOES know you. :P
Did you know health insurance companies pay for acupuncture?
:argh!: :lulz: :argh!:
The only thing I've seen that can't be explained by placebo effect is that it lowers high blood pressure. And even that probably has more to do with placebo or human contact than magic.
Quote from: Alty on November 12, 2013, 07:00:51 PM
Did you know health insurance companies pay for acupuncture?
:argh!: :lulz: :argh!:
The only thing I've seen that can't be explained by placebo effect is that it lowers high blood pressure. And even that probably has more to do with placebo or human contact than magic.
Offhand, I'd guess the setting and atmosphere probably helps with that too. Not like many acupuncturists are playing black metal and such. More wind chimes. Something something ritualistic? Hence relaxing?
Quote from: Alty on November 12, 2013, 07:00:51 PM
Did you know health insurance companies pay for acupuncture?
:argh!: :lulz: :argh!:
The only thing I've seen that can't be explained by placebo effect is that it lowers high blood pressure. And even that probably has more to do with placebo or human contact than magic.
Fuckers fight tooth and nail to avoid paying for real treatment, but they'll pay for mumbo jumbo.
That says something.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 12, 2013, 04:26:16 PM
While I'm skeptical, I actually place the Truth Value of acupuncture over 50%. That is, I have found slightly more evidence supporting some sort of beneficial effect from acupuncture than against. At least enough to throw the issue into doubt.
Although the chakra thing is grounds for immediate disqualification.
This.
If I was going to try acupuncture, I wouldn't go to some gasbag babbling about chakras at health fairs.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 12, 2013, 07:34:40 PM
Quote from: Alty on November 12, 2013, 07:00:51 PM
Did you know health insurance companies pay for acupuncture?
:argh!: :lulz: :argh!:
The only thing I've seen that can't be explained by placebo effect is that it lowers high blood pressure. And even that probably has more to do with placebo or human contact than magic.
Fuckers fight tooth and nail to avoid paying for real treatment, but they'll pay for mumbo jumbo.
That says something.
Well yeah, which one do you reckon costs more? I can see a health insurance firm emerging that only entitles you to "alternative" treatments. If I was running a health insurance firm, I'd have my phone monkeys talking about the benefits of homoeopathy all day long. Every bit of time wasted on that reduces my likely overall bill. The interim death toll from people talking the Steve Jobs approach to treatment (He'd be another fucker the phones wouldn't stop talking about. So wise. Such a visionary. Was getting better you know...) would mean massive fucking profits for me. Actual treatment? No, you're not covered for that. And you breached you policy by not telling us about that broken ankle at 3 years old so we're suing you.
He really DOES need to let you go. Your meridians are all up in your chakras and your aura could have COOTIES, for all you know. I mean, you never do any CLEANSING RITUALS or anything, you could have ASSTRAIL GUINEA WORMS or some shit.
I vote you follow him around with some kind of Boss Fix crystal until he relents.
I got acupuncture once because I was doing a report on it for school so I videotaped my session and made it part of my report.
I absolutely cannot speak to the scientific validity of it. I can say that it felt great, relaxed me immensely, and provided a great deal of relief from a football-related shoulder injury I was dealing with at the time. I was smart, though. I went to some wizened old chinese guy who barely spoke english instead of some new-age dipshit white guy from the burbs who had too much free time and bad dope in college. And it wasn't just needles either. He put some shit on me and lit it on fire and let it burn me. It was great. 10/10, would do again if my health plan covered it.
BRB settling up insurance company
I don't think the fair is going quite far enough.
Where's the paleo dietician? The crystal yogi? Where's the guy who uses slight of hand and a piece of bloody meat to pull tumors out of people's bodies? Someone has to be on hand to educate the public about water memory and the healing power of twice distilled glacial spring reverse osmosis mineral water with electrolytes.
There is an idea, put forth by some people looking through cadavers, that acupuncture meridian lines may correspond with fascia lines. That would make a lot of sense considering the nature of fascia and my own thoughts on how that tissue stores endocrine fluids that have to do with the emotional aspect of bodywork
I would say, finding someone fully trained in Traditional Chinese Medicine or the wizened old Chinese dude route for sure.
I put acupuncture in the same category as "extreme massage." If hot rocks and rubbing relieves stress, why not needles? There seems to be something to the ritual + physical stimulus package that works on humans. I've had hypnosis explained to me as being in large part based on giving the conscious mind something to occupy itself with so the unconscious part can be brought forward and be more directly suggested - needles seem like they'd be pretty good as a thing to focus on while you suggest to the rest of the mind that healing is occurring. I think the use of stimulus/ritual in S&M and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspace_(BDSM) works on similar principles.
ETA: a lot of (all?) Eastern massage/bodywork traditions explain themselves in terms of chi & chakra flows. I don't think that makes them any less effective. If anything, I'd expect that the more explicit inclusion of meditation would make them more effective at relaxation and stress reduction.
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on November 12, 2013, 07:52:27 PM
He really DOES need to let you go. Your meridians are all up in your chakras and your aura could have COOTIES, for all you know. I mean, you never do any CLEANSING RITUALS or anything, you could have ASSTRAIL GUINEA WORMS or some shit.
I vote you follow him around with some kind of Boss Fix crystal until he relents.
Just went.
One of the clowns said "homeopathy" and I lost it. Our company doctor was there (from Houston), and he and I stood off to one side pantomiming voodoo at people until my boss yelled at us.
There was absolutely nothing of value. I may as well have gone to a fucking psychic fair.
There are some types of massage that work on the same.level as acupuncture. But there are some types of massage that provide actual, repeatable results that do in no way depend on the brain's abaility or inability to relax a given muscle.
There is a very large gap between those two types of work.
Quote from: Alty on November 12, 2013, 10:29:26 PM
There are some types of massage that work on the same.level as acupuncture. But there are some types of massage that provide actual, repeatable results that do in no way depend on the brain's abaility or inability to relax a given muscle.
There is a very large gap between those two types of work.
Massage has a very obvious value, at MINIMUM. If nothing else, it gets the knots out of your muscles. There's no woo required.
Some of it may.
There are so many people put there doing these things, and given the confidence only diploma mills can offer. It's a big business, alternative medicine. And pretty much anyone is free to take it up. Which leaves a lot of room to make it up.
These methods, that often help people, are all freely available. It's all been put there for some.time. but the business of America being business, it gets amplified. And wrapped up in shiney plastic.
They are often good methods, and do things that are strange and unexplainable. Sometimes people experience extraordinary healing. Not in clinical experience...
But what about those people and those experiences?
What about the time I received a reiki attunement and saw angels.
Now, look at that last sentence I wrote. Then consider, I have taken hallucinagens, and never had any visual experiences. Slight waves, tracing, but my mind won't just create vivid images that way.
And never since then have I experienced anything even similar.
But I looked up and had a clear, piercing vision. I could go into great detail, i remember every but of it, which is also unusual.
There are no explainations for why some things happen yet. But somehow I doubt it's magic.
SO, you have to be careful and exact when dealing with something that works as magic in most people's minds, for money, in the 21st Cenutry.
Quote from: Alty on November 12, 2013, 11:47:26 PM
Some of it may.
There are so many people put there doing these things, and given the confidence only diploma mills can offer. It's a big business, alternative medicine. And pretty much anyone is free to take it up. Which leaves a lot of room to make it up.
Don't think I haven't considered it.
But I would go full-on flake with it. Or veer off into something horrible, if I could word the waivers correctly.
Something like realigning someone's chakras with an anchor chain and a front end loader.
Quote from: Alty on November 12, 2013, 11:47:26 PM
But what about those people and those experiences?
What about the time I received a reiki attunement and saw angels.
Now, look at that last sentence I wrote. Then consider, I have taken hallucinagens, and never had any visual experiences. Slight waves, tracing, but my mind won't just create vivid images that way.
*shrug*
I "found God" in an Epson tractor feed printer. People do weird things. Peoples' minds do weirder things.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 12, 2013, 11:51:19 PM
Quote from: Alty on November 12, 2013, 11:47:26 PM
But what about those people and those experiences?
What about the time I received a reiki attunement and saw angels.
Now, look at that last sentence I wrote. Then consider, I have taken hallucinagens, and never had any visual experiences. Slight waves, tracing, but my mind won't just create vivid images that way.
*shrug*
I "found God" in an Epson tractor feed printer. People do weird things. Peoples' minds do weirder things.
And that's just it. I feel chakras may be a handy landmark/map of sorts for the brain. Whatever is going on, unless it involves bacteria*, is some function your internal preasure*, or some other function, the brain must still control it, ja?
So why not those spots? They correspond quite neatly with our anatomy, because form/function/ Lo5s. But they're useful for some people. The way ritual is good for people, and tge way that taking 10-30 min out of your day to reflect, relax, and do sonething good for yourself.
Acupuncture does not work the same way vaccines or antibiotics work. It depends on the practitioner, the receiver, the mood, the time, the chemical ease between two people who can get along, or not. The skill of one, the openness of mind...
And you know, the front of the.mind rarely has much to do with it.
Point being, it's more art than science. Which is less than good, sometimes.
*Which it may.
°Which would include just about every other system that makes up your body.
You should put together a psychic fair, Roger. That would go over amazingly.
Well, this acupuncturist was busy babbling away about how "Western medicine"1 only treats symptoms, but acupuncture treats the "imbalances" in your system that make you sick. I asked her how effective it was on strep throat (with a straight face), and she basically went on to describe how germ theory isn't really a thing.
It's "imbalances". My body is a flywheel.
1 Blond hair, blue eyes. :lulz:
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on November 13, 2013, 12:27:14 AM
You should put together a psychic fair, Roger. That would go over amazingly.
Shit yeah. I could do people's futures.
"Go ahead and sell your stock short. Won't matter by Tuesday."
I keep waiting for someone to go on a killing spree with an orgone shooter. They'd find a hundred dead people with no allergies, childhood traumas, or alien soul infestations, all on a sunny day.
You need a turban with a big feather and a mustache to twirl.
Your boss hates freedom Roger.
You should host a gluten cleanse seminar.
"The dangers of candida overgrowth and how it affects your yin and yang."
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 13, 2013, 12:27:26 AM
Well, this acupuncturist was busy babbling away about how "Western medicine"1 only treats symptoms, but acupuncture treats the "imbalances" in your system that make you sick. I asked her how effective it was on strep throat (with a straight face), and she basically went on to describe how germ theory isn't really a thing.
It's "imbalances". My body is a flywheel.
1 Blond hair, blue eyes. :lulz:
You should invite her back to treat the imbalances in your ball mills.
:lmnuendo:
Quote from: Alty on November 12, 2013, 09:33:58 PM
There is an idea, put forth by some people looking through cadavers, that acupuncture meridian lines may correspond with fascia lines. That would make a lot of sense considering the nature of fascia and my own thoughts on how that tissue stores endocrine fluids that have to do with the emotional aspect of bodywork
Do you have any literature for that, Alty, please?
Quote from: holist on November 13, 2013, 07:34:04 AM
Quote from: Alty on November 12, 2013, 09:33:58 PM
There is an idea, put forth by some people looking through cadavers, that acupuncture meridian lines may correspond with fascia lines. That would make a lot of sense considering the nature of fascia and my own thoughts on how that tissue stores endocrine fluids that have to do with the emotional aspect of bodywork
Do you have any literature for that, Alty, please?
Sadly, I do not. Especially the cadavee work, can't remember who told me that, but it may be someone I'm mad at. But i can recommend the book Job's Body. Very beautifully written and quality work.
Quote from: PopeSlag on November 13, 2013, 12:56:30 AM
I keep waiting for someone to go on a killing spree with an orgone shooter. They'd find a hundred dead people with no allergies, childhood traumas, or alien soul infestations, all on a sunny day.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 13, 2013, 12:27:26 AM
It's "imbalances". My body is a flywheel.
Well more like a spinning top, really. In more ways than one.
The capacity of the organism in homeostasis to maintain and regain active equillibrium is a marvel* to behold. This capacity can be compromised an an amazing number of different ways. I suspect that given the overbearing presence of a neocortex in our heads, we may have developed some amazing new ways of compromising our ability to maintain homeostasis - which may be pretty amenable to treatment via ritual. I also hold out for miracles*.
*In a strictly scientific sense! Marvel, in the sense of inspiring intellectual awe, and miracles in the sense of interesting effects in the ultimately physical universe for which we are at a loss to supply an explanation as yet!
Quote from: holist on November 13, 2013, 08:18:46 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 13, 2013, 12:27:26 AM
It's "imbalances". My body is a flywheel.
Well more like a spinning top, really. In more ways than one.
The capacity of the organism in homeostasis to maintain and regain active equillibrium is a marvel* to behold. This capacity can be compromised an an amazing number of different ways. I suspect that given the overbearing presence of a neocortex in our heads, we may have developed some amazing new ways of compromising our ability to maintain homeostasis - which may be pretty amenable to treatment via ritual. I also hold out for miracles*.
*In a strictly scientific sense! Marvel, in the sense of inspiring intellectual awe, and miracles in the sense of interesting effects in the ultimately physical universe for which we are at a loss to supply an explanation as yet!
You are translating the concept of imbalance to a scientific concept.
This is not how the WooWoo crowd understands it.
The only reason you think you agree with (some of )their words is because you are not listening to what they are saying.
You are listening to what you want them to mean.
I think you are overstretching yourself in an attempt to understand those wastes of space.
Then again, some WooWoos may actually think like you do but have learned to keep their SCIENCE! thoughts to themselves.
Quote from: :regret: on November 13, 2013, 12:27:34 PM
You are translating the concept of imbalance to a scientific concept.
Well maybe I am! I am a translator, after all. But actually, no, I'm just saying, while the great majority of the alternative medicine circus consists of narrow-minded individuals working the Garden of Get-Some-Money with a corny holier-than-thou expression and deeply questionable ethics, IF there is a reasonably workable worldview behind the bollocks, it's something like what I outlined. It doesn't have to be scientific to work. Prescientific ways of interpreting experience can still be honest, also empirical, also undergoing increasingly good alignment with reality. Of course, they can just as easily be misleading, deceptive and fancy ways of dressing up human existences that objectively appear to be dead ends, as they tend not to have the relationship between tradition, knowledge, evidence and the suchlike worked out too well, and because, well,
humans, but I refuse to believe that humanity consisted of easily bamboozled woo-ists before science turned up.... because, after all, if that had been the case, science would not have turned up. So I tend to imagine that if a particular practice claiming health-improvement has a long tradition and somewhat stringent standards as to who is allowed to claim to be a practitioner, there is probably some grain of truth. The practice is likely to work to some extent, not necessarily for the reasons the parctitioners attribute to it, but still.
Quote from: :regret: on November 13, 2013, 12:27:34 PM
This is not how the WooWoo crowd understands it.
While I agree with you that in general that is indeed not how they understand it, you know as well as I do that there are interesting people at the edge of Woo-Woo, in places where it is actually quite hard to tell...
Quote from: :regret: on November 13, 2013, 12:27:34 PM
The only reason you think you agree with (some of )their words is because you are not listening to what they are saying.
To be perfectly honest, I don't particularly care whether I agree with them, just gleaning their views is too much like hard work in most cases. All I'm saying is, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, just because a certain doctrine attracts a really bad audience and an even worse set of wannabees, doesn't mean it is completely pointless. The teachings of one Jeshua from Nazareth one of the literally thousands of cases in point.
Quote from: :regret: on November 13, 2013, 12:27:34 PM
You are listening to what you want them to mean.
I'm trying to avoid the mistake of writing off large chunks of humanity on account of a few superficial views they claim to subscribe to. I know people who are into astrology, tarot, homeopathy, a hierarchy of spirit entities fighting an unending war for our planet, and these people are pretty OK. Sometimes I am tempted to add "otherwise", sometimes not even that. And then of course I know and indeed see whereever I look when I'm out in public very many people who appear to be into loopy shit for entirely the wrong reasons... a surprising number of those are actually hard-core science-believers, check out any 'secular' board, really, with their own saints and dogma and holy stories...
Quote from: :regret: on November 13, 2013, 12:27:34 PM
I think you are overstretching yourself in an attempt to understand...
You are too kind to concern yourself with my health, but really, I can stretch quite far without any danger of overstretching...
Quote from: :regret: on November 13, 2013, 12:27:34 PM
those wastes of space.
Now THAT'S what I call a really edgy, scary, difficult mindspace to get into.
Quote from: :regret: on November 13, 2013, 12:27:34 PM
Then again, some WooWoos may actually think like you do but have learned to keep their SCIENCE! thoughts to themselves.
Convoluted statement, that, gone over my head. Can you simplify? :)
Quote from: holist on November 13, 2013, 01:21:13 PM
Quote from: :regret: on November 13, 2013, 12:27:34 PM
Then again, some WooWoos may actually think like you do but have learned to keep their SCIENCE! thoughts to themselves.
Convoluted statement, that, gone over my head. Can you simplify? :)
Some people who seem to be full of magickal thinking are actually rational but have adapted to an irrational social context.
Quote from: :regret: on November 13, 2013, 02:12:37 PM
Quote from: holist on November 13, 2013, 01:21:13 PM
Quote from: :regret: on November 13, 2013, 12:27:34 PM
Then again, some WooWoos may actually think like you do but have learned to keep their SCIENCE! thoughts to themselves.
Convoluted statement, that, gone over my head. Can you simplify? :)
Some people who seem to be full of magickal thinking are actually rational but have adapted to an irrational social context.
Then again, some people who seem to be full of magickal thinking are actually rational and pursuing lines of experience and reasoning you rejected on insufficient grounds or never even seriously considered.
Quote from: holist on November 13, 2013, 05:03:44 PM
Quote from: :regret: on November 13, 2013, 02:12:37 PM
Quote from: holist on November 13, 2013, 01:21:13 PM
Quote from: :regret: on November 13, 2013, 12:27:34 PM
Then again, some WooWoos may actually think like you do but have learned to keep their SCIENCE! thoughts to themselves.
Convoluted statement, that, gone over my head. Can you simplify? :)
Some people who seem to be full of magickal thinking are actually rational but have adapted to an irrational social context.
Then again, some people who seem to be full of magickal thinking are actually rational and pursuing lines of experience and reasoning you rejected on insufficient grounds or never even seriously considered.
Here we go again.
It was only a matter of time.
No-no, I was just kidding.
Too late.
Thread ruined.
I like to think of good threads like beautiful snowflakes, brilliant, unique, gone in an instant.
Covered in urine, on ocassion.
Quote from: Alty on November 13, 2013, 12:15:27 AM
And that's just it. I feel chakras may be a handy landmark/map of sorts for the brain. Whatever is going on, unless it involves bacteria*, is some function your internal preasure*, or some other function, the brain must still control it, ja?
So why not those spots? They correspond quite neatly with our anatomy, because form/function/ Lo5s. But they're useful for some people. The way ritual is good for people, and tge way that taking 10-30 min out of your day to reflect, relax, and do sonething good for yourself.
Acupuncture does not work the same way vaccines or antibiotics work. It depends on the practitioner, the receiver, the mood, the time, the chemical ease between two people who can get along, or not. The skill of one, the openness of mind...
And you know, the front of the.mind rarely has much to do with it.
Point being, it's more art than science. Which is less than good, sometimes.
*Which it may.
°Which would include just about every other system that makes up your body.
[Aside.. very interesting comment about Fascia there. I remember you bringing that up in a previous massage thread.]
Don't forget the enteric nervous system (gut-brain and related networks) and the autonomic nervous system, I think these have a lot to do with regulating anti-inflammatory elements in our systems. (I have a hunch that our "personality" is distributed over these systems as well as the CNS (brain), but no research yet to back that up.)
I also think triggering localized anti-inflammatory effects (especially through the fire/heat treatment as described by ECH) is one of the primary actions of acupuncture.
Some recent research:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/may/30/acupuncture-pain-relief-adenosine-mice
And this study was just completed (results not posted yet):
http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01945190
Quote from: Alty on November 14, 2013, 06:41:54 AM
I like to think of good threads like beautiful snowflakes, brilliant, unique, gone in an instant.
Covered in urine, on ocassion.
:lulz: Well said, sir. Well said.
Quote from: Telarus on November 14, 2013, 09:01:15 PM
Quote from: Alty on November 13, 2013, 12:15:27 AM
And that's just it. I feel chakras may be a handy landmark/map of sorts for the brain. Whatever is going on, unless it involves bacteria*, is some function your internal preasure*, or some other function, the brain must still control it, ja?
So why not those spots? They correspond quite neatly with our anatomy, because form/function/ Lo5s. But they're useful for some people. The way ritual is good for people, and tge way that taking 10-30 min out of your day to reflect, relax, and do sonething good for yourself.
Acupuncture does not work the same way vaccines or antibiotics work. It depends on the practitioner, the receiver, the mood, the time, the chemical ease between two people who can get along, or not. The skill of one, the openness of mind...
And you know, the front of the.mind rarely has much to do with it.
Point being, it's more art than science. Which is less than good, sometimes.
*Which it may.
°Which would include just about every other system that makes up your body.
[Aside.. very interesting comment about Fascia there. I remember you bringing that up in a previous massage thread.]
Don't forget the enteric nervous system (gut-brain and related networks) and the autonomic nervous system, I think these have a lot to do with regulating anti-inflammatory elements in our systems. (I have a hunch that our "personality" is distributed over these systems as well as the CNS (brain), but no research yet to back that up.)
I also think triggering localized anti-inflammatory effects (especially through the fire/heat treatment as described by ECH) is one of the primary actions of acupuncture.
Some recent research:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/may/30/acupuncture-pain-relief-adenosine-mice
And this study was just completed (results not posted yet):
http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01945190
Those are some great links! I'd love to see how the latter turns out. I can see the local antiinflammatory response doing real good, if/when it occurs.
What would be required to get the proper perspective of each individual in order to determine how to use acupuncture with some kind of targeted positive results every time. I suppose there's probably plenty of old chinese folks who would scoff at that.
No doubt, when trained in TCM in the country where it's been a living thing for thousands of years offers some more accuracy in diagnosis. They use urine on the tongue, for one.
Quote from: Alty on November 15, 2013, 12:10:17 AM
Quote from: Telarus on November 14, 2013, 09:01:15 PM
Quote from: Alty on November 13, 2013, 12:15:27 AM
And that's just it. I feel chakras may be a handy landmark/map of sorts for the brain. Whatever is going on, unless it involves bacteria*, is some function your internal preasure*, or some other function, the brain must still control it, ja?
So why not those spots? They correspond quite neatly with our anatomy, because form/function/ Lo5s. But they're useful for some people. The way ritual is good for people, and tge way that taking 10-30 min out of your day to reflect, relax, and do sonething good for yourself.
Acupuncture does not work the same way vaccines or antibiotics work. It depends on the practitioner, the receiver, the mood, the time, the chemical ease between two people who can get along, or not. The skill of one, the openness of mind...
And you know, the front of the.mind rarely has much to do with it.
Point being, it's more art than science. Which is less than good, sometimes.
*Which it may.
°Which would include just about every other system that makes up your body.
[Aside.. very interesting comment about Fascia there. I remember you bringing that up in a previous massage thread.]
Don't forget the enteric nervous system (gut-brain and related networks) and the autonomic nervous system, I think these have a lot to do with regulating anti-inflammatory elements in our systems. (I have a hunch that our "personality" is distributed over these systems as well as the CNS (brain), but no research yet to back that up.)
I also think triggering localized anti-inflammatory effects (especially through the fire/heat treatment as described by ECH) is one of the primary actions of acupuncture.
Some recent research:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/may/30/acupuncture-pain-relief-adenosine-mice
And this study was just completed (results not posted yet):
http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01945190
Those are some great links! I'd love to see how the latter turns out. I can see the local antiinflammatory response doing real good, if/when it occurs.
What would be required to get the proper perspective of each individual in order to determine how to use acupuncture with some kind of targeted positive results every time. I suppose there's probably plenty of old chinese folks who would scoff at that.
No doubt, when trained in TCM in the country where it's been a living thing for thousands of years offers some more accuracy in diagnosis. They use urine on the tongue, for one.
I am told by one who has tried to do so that in fact TCM was pretty much eradicated by the Cultural Revolution. And then resuscitated when the idological wind changed, but much of the traditional knowledge was lost.
Quote from: Telarus on November 14, 2013, 09:01:15 PM
Quote from: Alty on November 13, 2013, 12:15:27 AM
And that's just it. I feel chakras may be a handy landmark/map of sorts for the brain. Whatever is going on, unless it involves bacteria*, is some function your internal preasure*, or some other function, the brain must still control it, ja?
So why not those spots? They correspond quite neatly with our anatomy, because form/function/ Lo5s. But they're useful for some people. The way ritual is good for people, and tge way that taking 10-30 min out of your day to reflect, relax, and do sonething good for yourself.
Acupuncture does not work the same way vaccines or antibiotics work. It depends on the practitioner, the receiver, the mood, the time, the chemical ease between two people who can get along, or not. The skill of one, the openness of mind...
And you know, the front of the.mind rarely has much to do with it.
Point being, it's more art than science. Which is less than good, sometimes.
*Which it may.
°Which would include just about every other system that makes up your body.
[Aside.. very interesting comment about Fascia there. I remember you bringing that up in a previous massage thread.]
Don't forget the enteric nervous system (gut-brain and related networks) and the autonomic nervous system, I think these have a lot to do with regulating anti-inflammatory elements in our systems. (I have a hunch that our "personality" is distributed over these systems as well as the CNS (brain), but no research yet to back that up.)
I also think triggering localized anti-inflammatory effects (especially through the fire/heat treatment as described by ECH) is one of the primary actions of acupuncture.
Some recent research:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/may/30/acupuncture-pain-relief-adenosine-mice
And this study was just completed (results not posted yet):
http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01945190
Thanks, Telarus, those are great links.