After my recent Lite Mugging I've been considering a gun.
Actually, I've thought about it before, but talked myself out of it because I just couldn't justify the need. Now though, it seems.like a good idea.
1. No car
2. Can't get a dog for a few reasons
3. I walk constantly
What I'd like ITT:
Suggestions as to why this may be a good idea or a bad idea.
Suggestions as to potential guns. (I'm thinking a compact Glock. Reliable, durable, can fit in my coat pocket. Or a revolver of some kind)
What I dont want ITT:
2nd Amendment Debate, plz.
Eh?
I know you have plenty of training, but I still think having a gun in a volitile situation only increases the overall instability.
Then again, I'm a bleeding heart pacifist, so YMMV.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 14, 2013, 08:57:03 PM
I know you have plenty of training, but I still think having a gun in a volitile situation only increases the overall instability.
Then again, I'm a bleeding heart pacifist, so YMMV.
Likewise, but I am going to take off my pacifist hat and try to add what I can to this.
In order to be useful in that sort of situation you would need a carry conceal. I don't know how easy it is to get those in Alaska but you need a damn good reason for it here in Massachusetts. And by damn good reason, I mean, you're probably not going to get one.
You'd also need to make sure that you were a quick enough draw to be an immediate counter threat and make yourself not a worthwhile target.
You would also need to know what is legally expected of you once you draw that gun. Pat recently applied for a gun license and he was describing what Mass laws were like. And if I recall correctly, if you draw, you're expected to shoot. If you shoot, you're expected to kill. Otherwise the other guy can sue the shit out of you. I could be remembering incorrectly, but the way he described it it sounds like there's virtually no point to getting a gun in Massachusetts and it's probably safer and cheaper to give up your wallet and pack of cigarettes.
We are, of course, a very blue state and fairly restrictive when it comes to owning personal arms. Alaska being what it is, I expect it to be very different. But that is something that you have to bear in mind. Regardless of what the laws are there, if you're going to buy a gun and use it for defense, you have to accept the possibility that you may have to shoot and kill someone.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 14, 2013, 08:57:03 PM
I know you have plenty of training, but I still think having a gun in a volitile situation only increases the overall instability.
Then again, I'm a bleeding heart pacifist, so YMMV.
I actually have no training, I would it acquire along with the gun, over a period of time of course. It'll give me a newThing To Do.
I'm not especially worried about being mugged. I'm happy to simply give away my things.
It's being beaten so badly I need my face reconstructed that worries me.
To do the Bayesean thing on this, adding no prior experience with a handgun increases the probability of me telling you not to get one for self defense against dickheads on the street.
Martial arts might be a better route. No license needed, no need to draw. You are the weapon, probably literally save your face, and don't have any unfortunate court dates.
Alaska gun laws are very, uh, easy going.
Conceal and carry is practically a Commandment of Gawd.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 14, 2013, 09:19:02 PM
To do the Bayesean thing on this, adding no prior experience with a handgun increases the probability of me telling you not to get one for self defense against dickheads on the street.
Ok. That follows. I've held and fired pistols and rifles, but would seek quality training.
It takes longer, is probably more expensive, but you both walk away, one somewhat worse for wear.
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 14, 2013, 09:21:02 PM
Martial arts might be a better route. No license needed, no need to draw. You are the weapon, probably literally save your face, and don't have any unfortunate court dates.
Martial arts against four attackers who have a 100lbs on me each just won't work.
Plus, as for defense, it's less than optimal. You can't hurt someone unless in the specific instance, the moment of defense. And if they're armed. And if they're wildly drunk.
Oh yeah, I'm not going out late in the dark again on my own.
Quote from: Alty on November 14, 2013, 09:24:01 PM
Quote from: Doktor Blight on November 14, 2013, 09:21:02 PM
Martial arts might be a better route. No license needed, no need to draw. You are the weapon, probably literally save your face, and don't have any unfortunate court dates.
Martial arts against four attackers who have a 100lbs on me each just won't work.
Plus, as for defense, it's less than optimal. You can't hurt someone unless in the specific instance, the moment of defense. And if they're armed. And if they're wildly drunk.
Oh yeah, I'm not going out late in the dark again on my own.
Fair point. Though, if they're wildly drunk, they won't be as coordinated, armed or not, though, projectile weapons changes that whole thing.
But that is another thing to take into consideration, if there's four of them and they have at least two guns. I can see LMNO's point about escalation. If you're mainly worried about personal injury it may still be more trouble than it's worth.
Looks like it's 12 hours of required training in AK for conceal and carry.
I probably won't get one. My eyesight is shitty and my hands shake. :lol:
The only gun that wpuld.really work for me (as in me hitting an intended target) is a shotgun, and I don't think I can just carry one of them.
Or can i...
Anyhow, I'd prefer a very large dog, overall.
Quote from: Alty on November 14, 2013, 09:28:56 PM
Looks like it's 12 hours of required training in AK for conceal and carry.
I probably won't get one. My eyesight is shitty and my hands shake. :lol:
The only gun that wpuld.really work for me (as in me hitting an intended target) is a shotgun, and I don't think I can just carry one of them.
Or can i...
Anyhow, I'd prefer a very large dog, overall.
That's another one. If you have a mean looking dog, and you decide to take it for a walk to the liquor store, that dog may well be deterrent enough.
I had one once. She was huge, but she was a lab, boxy face though.
I lived in this same house at the time. I never feared for going on a walk, people.would see her coming from the end of the road and cross the street. :lol:
Let's assume though, please, that I would not just pull out a gun, if I had one, until the moment I genuinely feared for.my.life. Not as a threat, or as a meana for diffusing the situation. That's not, as far as I know, what guns are for.
They're for shooting people who are trying to kill/hurt you, as far as self defense goes.
Quote from: Alty on November 14, 2013, 09:42:05 PM
Let's assume though, please, that I would not just pull out a gun, if I had one, until the moment I genuinely feared for.my.life. Not as a threat, or as a meana for diffusing the situation. That's not, as far as I know, what guns are for.
They're for shooting people who are trying to kill/hurt you, as far as self defense goes.
Wasn't assuming that at all. That's why I brought up what Alaska expects you to do once the gun is out.
Quote from: Alty on November 14, 2013, 08:55:27 PM
After my recent Lite Mugging I've been considering a gun.
Actually, I've thought about it before, but talked myself out of it because I just couldn't justify the need. Now though, it seems.like a good idea.
1. No car
2. Can't get a dog for a few reasons
3. I walk constantly
What I'd like ITT:
Suggestions as to why this may be a good idea or a bad idea.
Suggestions as to potential guns. (I'm thinking a compact Glock. Reliable, durable, can fit in my coat pocket. Or a revolver of some kind)
What I dont want ITT:
2nd Amendment Debate, plz.
Eh?
How much training have you had with firearms?
I've fired them. That's about it.
Quote from: Alty on November 14, 2013, 09:16:10 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 14, 2013, 08:57:03 PM
I know you have plenty of training, but I still think having a gun in a volitile situation only increases the overall instability.
Then again, I'm a bleeding heart pacifist, so YMMV.
I actually have no training, I would it acquire along with the gun, over a period of time of course. It'll give me a newThing To Do.
Carrying a firearm before completing a certain amount of training is a really good way to learn if your butt is big enough to be a holster.
Quote from: Alty on November 14, 2013, 09:47:28 PM
I've fired them. That's about it.
I have a meeting to attend. I'll respond in detail later.
If you truly want one for self-defense in a "my life is in imminent danger" situation, there are a couple of things you need to know:
1) You can get a palm-sized 2-shot pistol in a lethal caliber. Effective range is point blank but if you're getting your face beaten in you're probably at point-blank range.
2) Taurus makes a revolver that fires .410 shotgun rounds. It's expensive, heavy, and has quite a bit of kick but it's a goddamn shotgun pistol.
3) Make sure your gun isn't registered. On the one in a million chance that you DO shoot someone, you can always report the incident if you decide it's in your best interest to do so but if your gun is registered then you're pretty much FORCED to report the incident even if that's NOT in your best interest.
4) Ultimately, LMNO is correct. Statistically speaking, having a gun significantly increases your chances of getting shot.
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on November 14, 2013, 09:49:59 PM
1) You can get a palm-sized 2-shot pistol in a lethal caliber. Effective range is point blank but if you're getting your face beaten in you're probably at point-blank range.
This. Also, make sure the fucking thing has a trigger guard, isn't made in China, and is single action.
Ok so:
Provided I do decide on a gun,
1. Realize the numbers are against me, and that I am greatly increasing the volatility of a given situation just having the thing on me.
2.Acquire as much training as time/money allow well before acquiring gun.
3. They make small pistols with enough bang.
I found these little .22 magnums with grip holsters. Even a .22 magnum probably wouldn't be enough, but they do carry five rounds.
Quote from: Alty on November 14, 2013, 10:00:52 PM
Ok so:
Provided I do decide on a gun,
1. Realize the numbers are against me, and that I am greatly increasing the volatility of a given situation just having the thing on me.
2.Acquire as much training as time/money allow well before acquiring gun.
3. They make small pistols with enough bang.
I found these little .22 magnums with grip holsters. Even a .22 magnum probably wouldn't be enough, but they do carry five rounds.
5 little holes will kill someone as fast or faster than one large hole.
Also, you're far more likely to hit and have a far lower return-to-target time. Neglible, in fact.
I dunno, .22 can be lethal but it certainly isn't a given. If you're going for a derringer-style palm pistol that's gonna be used point-blank anyway, I'd go with .38 or .40S&W. And no matter what load you end up going with, definitely splurge and get the jacketed hollow points. I mean, the point is to utterly and irrevocably kill the ever-living fuck out of someone, right? No point saving $10 a box on bullets.
Alty, do they have any gun ranges up there that let you rent out different guns and types of ammo to see what works for your grip and needs? I'd give that a go first, if it's available.
If I were going to get a gun, again, I'd probably go with something in the Springfield XD range. Nice guns, I like their weight and how they work. Derringers are cute and all, but I do not have dainty hands.
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on November 14, 2013, 11:31:15 PM
I dunno, .22 can be lethal but it certainly isn't a given. If you're going for a derringer-style palm pistol that's gonna be used point-blank anyway, I'd go with .38 or .40S&W. And no matter what load you end up going with, definitely splurge and get the jacketed hollow points. I mean, the point is to utterly and irrevocably kill the ever-living fuck out of someone, right? No point saving $10 a box on bullets.
Just realized this might have unintentionally come off as sounding arrogant, given I was replying to an infantryman. :lulz:
Not meant that way, though. More of a "you're totally right but given the very specific context I imagine Alty ever needing to use a gun in maybe this would be more suitable?"
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on November 15, 2013, 12:59:03 AM
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on November 14, 2013, 11:31:15 PM
I dunno, .22 can be lethal but it certainly isn't a given. If you're going for a derringer-style palm pistol that's gonna be used point-blank anyway, I'd go with .38 or .40S&W. And no matter what load you end up going with, definitely splurge and get the jacketed hollow points. I mean, the point is to utterly and irrevocably kill the ever-living fuck out of someone, right? No point saving $10 a box on bullets.
Just realized this might have unintentionally come off as sounding arrogant, given I was replying to an infantryman. :lulz:
Not meant that way, though. More of a "you're totally right but given the very specific context I imagine Alty ever needing to use a gun in maybe this would be more suitable?"
S'ok. :lulz:
It's largely a matter of budget. .22 is cheap enough to practice with, and practice is the difference between muscle memory saving your ass, and doing the tunnel-vision panic thing.
I would never want to kill anybody, ever.
But i think a .22 to the temple, neck, or face will, if not kill them, seriously deter further efforts.
I really appreciate all the input!
Quote from: Alty on November 15, 2013, 03:21:05 AM
I would never want to kill anybody, ever.
But i think a .22 to the temple, neck, or face will, if not kill them, seriously deter further efforts.
I really appreciate all the input!
If you're not shooting to kill, then you are using the wrong type of weapon. Seriously. Only in the Lone Ranger comics did people shoot to wound.
Get a sock and put a roll of quarters in it. That will maul a fucker, and he usually doesn't get dead.
Ah, you are right,of course.
Either way, it's given me a lot to think about
Quote from: Alty on November 15, 2013, 03:21:05 AM
I would never want to kill anybody, ever.
Your question is answered.
Until you decide otherwise, and I hope you don't, defending yourself with firearms is not something you want to do.
Go the angry dog route.
Not that I would think any less of you if you did buy a gun and ended up having to kill someone in self defense. I may be a pacifist but self defense is self defense. Even my pacifism reaches a limit (preserve your own life, preserve the lives of others)
I think that you have some similarities to me, and that you feel that that is not really an option. I hope I'm never put in the position to prove it, but I think I would rather have my face rearranged than to end the life of another human.
Strap a bunch of road flares to tactical vest and next time someone tries to stop you flash it while you scream out "CAN YOU LEAVE ME ALONE MAN, I'VE GOT SOMEWHERE TO BE!"
I suppose i should have added, unless they make.me fear for my health and wellbeing.
I'd absolutely rather killing someone than spend months in ICU and have a life crushing mass of debt, because they couldnt just leave me the fuck alone or keep their abuse. Or become completely disabled.
My ex worked in a nursing home. She always scolded me for flipping off other drives in the car because one of the patients there was in his 30s. He just had to be cared for in every particular way because he did something similar to a bunch of kids, they followed him and beat him into a permanent vegetative state.
I'll easily defend myself from that, every time. Given a lack of freeze.
Quote from: Eater of Clowns on November 15, 2013, 03:50:49 AM
Strap a bunch of road flares to tactical vest and next time someone tries to stop you flash it while you scream out "CAN YOU LEAVE ME ALONE MAN, I'VE GOT SOMEWHERE TO BE!"
That's totally brilliant!
It would work every time cause of the cinima!
Quote from: Alty on November 15, 2013, 03:52:19 AM
I suppose i should have added, unless they make.me fear for my health and wellbeing.
I'd absolutely rather killing someone than spend months in ICU and have a life crushing mass of debt, because they couldnt just leave me the fuck alone or keep their abuse. Or become completely disabled.
My ex worked in a nursing home. She always scolded me for flipping off other drives in the car because one of the patients there was in his 30s. He just had to be cared for in every particular way because he did something similar to a bunch of kids, they followed him and beat him into a permanent vegetative state.
I'll easily defend myself from that, every time. Given a lack of freeze.
You need to get out of that state. Seriously. It sounds like the fucking Holy Roman Empire, circa 1633.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 15, 2013, 03:55:58 AM
Quote from: Alty on November 15, 2013, 03:52:19 AM
I suppose i should have added, unless they make.me fear for my health and wellbeing.
I'd absolutely rather killing someone than spend months in ICU and have a life crushing mass of debt, because they couldnt just leave me the fuck alone or keep their abuse. Or become completely disabled.
My ex worked in a nursing home. She always scolded me for flipping off other drives in the car because one of the patients there was in his 30s. He just had to be cared for in every particular way because he did something similar to a bunch of kids, they followed him and beat him into a permanent vegetative state.
I'll easily defend myself from that, every time. Given a lack of freeze.
You need to get out of that state. Seriously. It sounds like the fucking Holy Roman Empire, circa 1633.
Yeah. This.
My current boss flipped someone off, the other guy flipped him the peace sign, and my boss went, "You win better guy, you win."
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 15, 2013, 03:55:58 AM
Quote from: Alty on November 15, 2013, 03:52:19 AM
I suppose i should have added, unless they make.me fear for my health and wellbeing.
I'd absolutely rather killing someone than spend months in ICU and have a life crushing mass of debt, because they couldnt just leave me the fuck alone or keep their abuse. Or become completely disabled.
My ex worked in a nursing home. She always scolded me for flipping off other drives in the car because one of the patients there was in his 30s. He just had to be cared for in every particular way because he did something similar to a bunch of kids, they followed him and beat him into a permanent vegetative state.
I'll easily defend myself from that, every time. Given a lack of freeze.
You need to get out of that state. Seriously. It sounds like the fucking Holy Roman Empire, circa 1633.
Seriously, if you are so afraid you're considering buying a gun it's very much time to move. You HATE it there, and it's killing you. I know you have to consider your son and your ex and you're planning on moving eventually, but maybe you can somehow accelerate the process.
It's mostly the neighborhood, which I'm moving out of as soon as I can.
I tell you now the only way I'm not spending what little time I have with my son, 50%, is if there is absolutely no alternative. That boy needs me, and I have gained so much strength from that fact alone.
Until i leave I make what adjustments I can.
Just out of curiosity, would you be able to talk your sons mother into moving too? To like the same area?
Because I'm just thinking, if you hate it there, she probably hates it there too, and your boy probably hates it there. And if he doesn't, well, it's clearly not the environment you'd like to raise him in.
I realize that there's complexity here, but if you had to give up 2/3rds of your beer just to avoid a fight, well, you know....
Yeah fuck that place. It's like bizzarro Maine, where the people are even LESS friendly than the moose.
Get some bear mace and work on moving.
Once you get a gun, they will too, and now you're at war.
Quote from: PopeSlag on November 15, 2013, 05:47:51 PM
Get some bear mace and work on moving.
Once you get a gun, they will too, and now you're at war.
Alty already has bear mace.
The time I met him we were hiking and every time he talked to me he looked at my eyes - not into them, at them - and stroked the can fondly.
:lol:
Yeah, I've got some bear mace, I'll just keep it on me.
So far, I'm leaning away from gun and thinking a bear mace/extendable rioi baton might be more better. The mace should adress a few people at once,and then, the careful application baton.
In this way I can preemptively strike and probably not go to prison. Also,less likely I'll be shot.
If I recall correctly, Alaska is an open carry state. So just get a damn pair of sixguns and a cool double holster and wear that shit fabulously. Who the fuck is gonna fuck with an angry hungarian wearing sixguns?
The trick with a riot baton is not getting it taken off you.
The benefit of a riot baton is that you can keep it up your sleeve and then with one movement extend it and bring it into your hand, so a fully extended baton appears from nowhere. Often doing that with a flourish and saying "PRESTO" is enough to make someone reconsider engaging with you.
Quote from: Pæs on November 15, 2013, 09:38:51 PM
The trick with a riot baton is not getting it taken off you.
The benefit of a riot baton is that you can keep it up your sleeve and then with one movement extend it and bring it into your hand, so a fully extended baton appears from nowhere. Often doing that with a flourish and saying "PRESTO" is enough to make someone reconsider engaging with you.
I typically just go straight to the horrible bit, rather than threaten. But that's because I am fucking annoyed by people who can't behave themselves. Also, 10% of the time, the guy comes at you anyway, and now he knows you have the baton.
Also, when hitting someone with a baton, you always come DOWN with it, and not side-to-side. It's harder to duck out of the way, and the proper place to hit someone is the collar bone. It won't kill them, but they won't be using that arm until they've spent a while in a brace.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 15, 2013, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Pæs on November 15, 2013, 09:38:51 PM
The trick with a riot baton is not getting it taken off you.
The benefit of a riot baton is that you can keep it up your sleeve and then with one movement extend it and bring it into your hand, so a fully extended baton appears from nowhere. Often doing that with a flourish and saying "PRESTO" is enough to make someone reconsider engaging with you.
I typically just go straight to the horrible bit, rather than threaten. But that's because I am fucking annoyed by people who can't behave themselves. Also, 10% of the time, the guy comes at you anyway, and now he knows you have the baton.
Also, when hitting someone with a baton, you always come DOWN with it, and not side-to-side. It's harder to duck out of the way, and the proper place to hit someone is the collar bone. It won't kill them, but they won't be using that arm until they've spent a while in a brace.
Threatening is generally a bad idea, yeah. Safer to go straight to the horrible bit rather than gamble with threatening anyone. Like you say, you don't want to let them know you have anything.
I want to change my answer to a sled team of skunks.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 15, 2013, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Pæs on November 15, 2013, 09:38:51 PM
The trick with a riot baton is not getting it taken off you.
The benefit of a riot baton is that you can keep it up your sleeve and then with one movement extend it and bring it into your hand, so a fully extended baton appears from nowhere. Often doing that with a flourish and saying "PRESTO" is enough to make someone reconsider engaging with you.
I typically just go straight to the horrible bit, rather than threaten. But that's because I am fucking annoyed by people who can't behave themselves. Also, 10% of the time, the guy comes at you anyway, and now he knows you have the baton.
Also, when hitting someone with a baton, you always come DOWN with it, and not side-to-side. It's harder to duck out of the way, and the proper place to hit someone is the collar bone. It won't kill them, but they won't be using that arm until they've spent a while in a brace.
This.
In general, when faced with scrapping with someone who might actually be trying to hurt you, IMO the 3 most immediately effective things you can do to end the fight are to break the collarbone, stomp the top of their arch hard enough to break their foot (works best with hard-soled boots), or rip their ear off. All 3 things take surprisingly little force if that force is properly applied.
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on November 15, 2013, 11:09:22 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 15, 2013, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Pæs on November 15, 2013, 09:38:51 PM
The trick with a riot baton is not getting it taken off you.
The benefit of a riot baton is that you can keep it up your sleeve and then with one movement extend it and bring it into your hand, so a fully extended baton appears from nowhere. Often doing that with a flourish and saying "PRESTO" is enough to make someone reconsider engaging with you.
I typically just go straight to the horrible bit, rather than threaten. But that's because I am fucking annoyed by people who can't behave themselves. Also, 10% of the time, the guy comes at you anyway, and now he knows you have the baton.
Also, when hitting someone with a baton, you always come DOWN with it, and not side-to-side. It's harder to duck out of the way, and the proper place to hit someone is the collar bone. It won't kill them, but they won't be using that arm until they've spent a while in a brace.
This.
In general, when faced with scrapping with someone who might actually be trying to hurt you, IMO the 3 most immediately effective things you can do to end the fight are to break the collarbone, stomp the top of their arch hard enough to break their foot (works best with hard-soled boots), or rip their ear off. All 3 things take surprisingly little force if that force is properly applied.
Nose biting is spectacularly effective, if you aren't squeamish.
not to sound like I know what I'm talking about, but what about going for the side of the knee (LCL), or barring that, straight for the junk?
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on November 15, 2013, 11:09:22 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 15, 2013, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Pæs on November 15, 2013, 09:38:51 PM
The trick with a riot baton is not getting it taken off you.
The benefit of a riot baton is that you can keep it up your sleeve and then with one movement extend it and bring it into your hand, so a fully extended baton appears from nowhere. Often doing that with a flourish and saying "PRESTO" is enough to make someone reconsider engaging with you.
I typically just go straight to the horrible bit, rather than threaten. But that's because I am fucking annoyed by people who can't behave themselves. Also, 10% of the time, the guy comes at you anyway, and now he knows you have the baton.
Also, when hitting someone with a baton, you always come DOWN with it, and not side-to-side. It's harder to duck out of the way, and the proper place to hit someone is the collar bone. It won't kill them, but they won't be using that arm until they've spent a while in a brace.
This.
In general, when faced with scrapping with someone who might actually be trying to hurt you, IMO the 3 most immediately effective things you can do to end the fight are to break the collarbone, stomp the top of their arch hard enough to break their foot (works best with hard-soled boots), or rip their ear off. All 3 things take surprisingly little force if that force is properly applied.
My friend bit a guy's ear off and it worked surprisingly well. I don't think people like getting maimed, even when they're all fucked up on whatever.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 16, 2013, 12:20:57 AM
not to sound like I know what I'm talking about, but what about going for the side of the knee (LCL), or barring that, straight for the junk?
The junk is good. Don't miss.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 15, 2013, 11:55:13 PM
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on November 15, 2013, 11:09:22 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 15, 2013, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Pæs on November 15, 2013, 09:38:51 PM
The trick with a riot baton is not getting it taken off you.
The benefit of a riot baton is that you can keep it up your sleeve and then with one movement extend it and bring it into your hand, so a fully extended baton appears from nowhere. Often doing that with a flourish and saying "PRESTO" is enough to make someone reconsider engaging with you.
I typically just go straight to the horrible bit, rather than threaten. But that's because I am fucking annoyed by people who can't behave themselves. Also, 10% of the time, the guy comes at you anyway, and now he knows you have the baton.
Also, when hitting someone with a baton, you always come DOWN with it, and not side-to-side. It's harder to duck out of the way, and the proper place to hit someone is the collar bone. It won't kill them, but they won't be using that arm until they've spent a while in a brace.
This.
In general, when faced with scrapping with someone who might actually be trying to hurt you, IMO the 3 most immediately effective things you can do to end the fight are to break the collarbone, stomp the top of their arch hard enough to break their foot (works best with hard-soled boots), or rip their ear off. All 3 things take surprisingly little force if that force is properly applied.
Nose biting is spectacularly effective, if you aren't squeamish.
I cut a guy once when he swung on me. He looked at the little cut on his arm and ran off to the ER. :lol:
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 16, 2013, 05:04:11 AM
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on November 15, 2013, 11:09:22 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 15, 2013, 09:48:02 PM
Quote from: Pæs on November 15, 2013, 09:38:51 PM
The trick with a riot baton is not getting it taken off you.
The benefit of a riot baton is that you can keep it up your sleeve and then with one movement extend it and bring it into your hand, so a fully extended baton appears from nowhere. Often doing that with a flourish and saying "PRESTO" is enough to make someone reconsider engaging with you.
I typically just go straight to the horrible bit, rather than threaten. But that's because I am fucking annoyed by people who can't behave themselves. Also, 10% of the time, the guy comes at you anyway, and now he knows you have the baton.
Also, when hitting someone with a baton, you always come DOWN with it, and not side-to-side. It's harder to duck out of the way, and the proper place to hit someone is the collar bone. It won't kill them, but they won't be using that arm until they've spent a while in a brace.
This.
In general, when faced with scrapping with someone who might actually be trying to hurt you, IMO the 3 most immediately effective things you can do to end the fight are to break the collarbone, stomp the top of their arch hard enough to break their foot (works best with hard-soled boots), or rip their ear off. All 3 things take surprisingly little force if that force is properly applied.
My friend bit a guy's ear off and it worked surprisingly well. I don't think people like getting maimed, even when they're all fucked up on whatever.
It's a deep seated fear for pretty much everyone. A friend of mine who went through the Federal law enforcement academy was trained, should he find himself using his knife in close quarters combat, to announce, "I am holding a knife and if you do not stop I will cut you with it," or something to that effect. Just a clear announcement of capabilities and intentions. I guess that is enough to stop a lot of people. We're all terribly, terribly afraid of being stabbed.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 16, 2013, 05:48:20 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 16, 2013, 12:20:57 AM
not to sound like I know what I'm talking about, but what about going for the side of the knee (LCL), or barring that, straight for the junk?
The junk is good. Don't miss.
Their balls have to wind up in their stomach. Any less and I've seen some people just get really angry about a kick in the junk.
Quote from: Pæs on November 16, 2013, 06:19:38 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 16, 2013, 05:48:20 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 16, 2013, 12:20:57 AM
not to sound like I know what I'm talking about, but what about going for the side of the knee (LCL), or barring that, straight for the junk?
The junk is good. Don't miss.
Their balls have to wind up in their stomach. Any less and I've seen some people just get really angry about a kick in the junk.
Like I said, bite their nose. They'll spend the rest of their lives in abject terror of anything with teeth.
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 16, 2013, 05:04:11 AM
My friend bit a guy's ear off and it worked surprisingly well. I don't think people like getting maimed married, even when they're all fucked up on whatever.
This is how I read it. My eyes are obviously not awake yet :lol:
Quote from: Sita on November 16, 2013, 01:20:46 PM
Quote from: Mrs. Nigelson on November 16, 2013, 05:04:11 AM
My friend bit a guy's ear off and it worked surprisingly well. I don't think people like getting maimed married, even when they're all fucked up on whatever.
This is how I read it. My eyes are obviously not awake yet :lol:
:lol: Well, that is kind of how
I feel about getting married.
If you're looking for a concealable self-defense tool, i would look into Cold Steel's Pocket Shark
http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/91SPB/POCKET_SHARK.aspx
They're hard, heavy and blunt enough to jam in an attackers eye or neck, they can be used the same as a kubaton for grapples and locks, plus they can be easily carried in a pocket or sleeve. Plus they're really nice permanent pens, so there's that.
Also, the site sells sword canes, just saying.
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on December 02, 2013, 06:57:06 AM
If you're looking for a concealable self-defense tool, i would look into Cold Steel's Pocket Shark
http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/91SPB/POCKET_SHARK.aspx
They're hard, heavy and blunt enough to jam in an attackers eye or neck, they can be used the same as a kubaton for grapples and locks, plus they can be easily carried in a pocket or sleeve. Plus they're really nice permanent pens, so there's that.
Also, the site sells sword canes, just saying.
Will it work with my tactical pants?
Heh, my friend had a sword cane. Or rather a "sword" cane. It was blunt enough that we once used it to destroy the gate of a minor British celebrity.
I have no advice on having a gun/having something else, but I will say the most important thing about carrying a weapon for self-protection is to carry a weapon you feel comfortable with and can use easily. For instance, for whatever reason, I'm comfortable with knives. Of course, it is illegal to carry a weapon for self-defence in the UK, but if I felt threatened and for some reason had to choose one, a knife would be my top choice. It's easy to carry without being obvious, and I know where to stick one to stop a fight quickly.
Apart from that, of course you need to learn to use such a weapon properly, whatever you choose. Any weapon is also a potentially a weapon against you, and if you don't know how to use it in the first place, the chances of it being taken from you and turned on you is a lot higher. With guns I'm sure there are training courses, especially in a place like Alaska, and with things like knives or batons, certain martial arts will teach their use as part of the training, which can be supplemented by certain training guides.
Beyond that, the only advice I could give is the kind you are no doubt following anyway. Avoid potential altercations, learn the signs for how one is starting and perhaps learn the warning signs for how you are being set up for a mugging or similar. If you do decide to carry a weapon and ever need to use it, showing you tried to end the situation peacefully and without violence goes a hell of a way towards building a strong self-defence case. Of course, American law tends to be somewhat generous in that regard, especially if you're white, but it's best to err on the side of caution, and it's better from a psychological POV too.