I'm only guessing, but I strongly suspect that was the guiding conviction which led to the USAF flying two B-52s through the new Chinese air defence zone (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/26/world/asia/china-us-b52s/) over Senkaku airspace.
What the US media doesn't seem keen to tell anyone is that the new ADIZ would, if followed properly, probably help avert a conflict. It's not a claim of sovereignty, or of this now being exclusively Chinese airspace. What it means is that the Chinese government would like to know what planes are flying in the area, because that way, it wont scramble all fighters and cause an international incident over a sensitive region because of, say, a military training exercise.
Like the one which allegedly occured yesterday.
Yes, of course it's also designed to tweak the nose of the Japanese, somewhat. Hell, the Chinese ADIZ directly mirrors the Japanese ADIZ in that area. And the Chinese "restrictions" in that zone are far less onerous than for the America ADIZ, for example - though of course the USA has the advantage of no contested territory on its borders.
Japan is also refusing to recognize the ADIZ, thus negating the possibility that the above was a genuine mistake. Abe's a firebrand, but he knows when to talk with the US. And that John Kerry lined right up to declare how "deeply concerned" he was at this means there is coordination and signalling between the two.
Here's the thing - when the US decides to initiate AirSeaBattle against China, it wont tell them. So seeing unknown warplanes with no transponders on, not responding to Chinese air traffic controllers (military or otherwise), looks like the opening strike of a war. That's how serious this is.
The Pentagon has made a comment:
Quote from: BBC NewsUS Colonel Steve Warren at the Pentagon said Washington had "conducted operations in the area of the Senkakus". "We have continued to follow our normal procedures, which include not filing flight plans, not radioing ahead and not registering our frequencies," he said. There had been no response from China, he added.
No, and I wouldn't bet on one. China won't take revenge now. But it will remember that the US sent two strategic, nuclear capable bombers in a deliberate attempt to humiliate and provoke them.
And we know how much value Asian societies put on face.
China would have been completely justified to shoot those two planes down.
Why the fuck are the US squaring up to china? China is fighting economic warfare (so far), does the US think it's losing?
We've been convincing ourselves that China is our secret enemy for so long that we actually believe it.
This is interesting. Thanks, Cain.
Quote from: Faust on November 27, 2013, 11:47:18 AM
China would have been completely justified to shoot those two planes down.
Why the fuck are the US squaring up to china? China is fighting economic warfare (so far), does the US think it's losing?
Obama's "Return to the Pacific" doctrine all but labels China as America's primary adversary.
I'd like to know what strategic or diplomatic rationale was given for this. Because it won't make China back down. It wont especially impress Japan or South Korea, either. And it reinforces the global opinion of the US as a tactless bully whose preferred method of diplomatic exchange is with cruise missiles.
Which may well be exactly what is happening here.
Quote from: Cain on November 27, 2013, 09:38:57 AM
Here's the thing - when the US decides to initiate AirSeaBattle against China, it wont tell them. So seeing unknown warplanes with no transponders on, not responding to Chinese air traffic controllers (military or otherwise), looks like the opening strike of a war. That's how serious this is.
And my estimate of humanity in general drops another peg.
Quote from: Cain on November 27, 2013, 11:28:25 AM
>And we know how much value Asian societies put on face.
This seems flawed. Sure, there is "face" at stake, but in the all-in-all, there is also, oh, I dunno, their whole fucking economy.
wonder what percent of their manufacturing sector would collapse if we decided to say fuck it and engage a full embargo on them tomorrow. China would go from a "almost relevant" to "shit tier" nation over night...
Quote from: von on November 27, 2013, 05:32:23 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 27, 2013, 11:28:25 AM
>And we know how much value Asian societies put on face.
This seems flawed. Sure, there is "face" at stake, but in the all-in-all, there is also, oh, I dunno, their whole fucking economy.
wonder what percent of their manufacturing sector would collapse if we decided to say fuck it and engage a full embargo on them tomorrow. China would go from a "almost relevant" to "shit tier" nation over night...
Are you actually serious here? What makes you think that the USA wouldn't end up in a way worse position? For a start, China would call in ALL THE DEBT. How do you think that will end?
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 27, 2013, 06:01:21 PM
Quote from: von on November 27, 2013, 05:32:23 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 27, 2013, 11:28:25 AM
>And we know how much value Asian societies put on face.
This seems flawed. Sure, there is "face" at stake, but in the all-in-all, there is also, oh, I dunno, their whole fucking economy.
wonder what percent of their manufacturing sector would collapse if we decided to say fuck it and engage a full embargo on them tomorrow. China would go from a "almost relevant" to "shit tier" nation over night...
Are you actually serious here? What makes you think that the USA wouldn't end up in a way worse position? For a start, China would call in ALL THE DEBT. How do you think that will end?
China wouldn't be allowed to call in the debt. One main reason our debt is so large right now is because so many countries wouldn't think
twice about lending to us for the simple fact that we always pay our debts back, with interest, on time.
Right now the U.S. is, for lack of a better term, 'flexing'. They are kind of just poking at China's chest to see if they'll poke back or at the very least say something provocative. I highly doubt that this is an atmosphere for a World War III, although this may be a precursor or even catalyst to that.
Economic warfare with China would be devastating for BOTH sides. We'd have two shit-tier nuclear nations overnight. Which, you know, bodes really well for world peace and all.
Um... I'm gonna stick with Cain as my informed IR spag of choice, if you don't mind.
You sound insane.
Wow.
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 27, 2013, 06:01:21 PM
Quote from: von on November 27, 2013, 05:32:23 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 27, 2013, 11:28:25 AM
>And we know how much value Asian societies put on face.
This seems flawed. Sure, there is "face" at stake, but in the all-in-all, there is also, oh, I dunno, their whole fucking economy.
wonder what percent of their manufacturing sector would collapse if we decided to say fuck it and engage a full embargo on them tomorrow. China would go from a "almost relevant" to "shit tier" nation over night...
Are you actually serious here? What makes you think that the USA wouldn't end up in a way worse position? For a start, China would call in ALL THE DEBT. How do you think that will end?
In the destruction of our currency, a spiraling trade war by proxy (since there wouldn't be any direct trade), and the loss of international banking capability. Then the lights start to go out. They come back on in 1100 years, and everyone forgets everything again. Rinse, repeat.
Quote from: Auscultare of the Fatigue on November 27, 2013, 06:10:02 PM
China wouldn't be allowed to call in the debt. One main reason our debt is so large right now is because so many countries wouldn't think twice about lending to us for the simple fact that we always pay our debts back, with interest, on time.
:whack:
Lol embargo. Because china is an island nation with only one trading partner
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on November 27, 2013, 01:27:04 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 27, 2013, 09:38:57 AM
Here's the thing - when the US decides to initiate AirSeaBattle against China, it wont tell them. So seeing unknown warplanes with no transponders on, not responding to Chinese air traffic controllers (military or otherwise), looks like the opening strike of a war. That's how serious this is.
And my estimate of humanity in general drops another peg.
It was only a matter of time.
We're fucked.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 27, 2013, 06:50:23 PM
Quote from: Auscultare of the Fatigue on November 27, 2013, 06:10:02 PM
China wouldn't be allowed to call in the debt. One main reason our debt is so large right now is because so many countries wouldn't think twice about lending to us for the simple fact that we always pay our debts back, with interest, on time.
:whack:
Correct me if I'm wrong?
Quote from: Auscultare of the Fatigue on November 27, 2013, 11:33:11 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 27, 2013, 06:50:23 PM
Quote from: Auscultare of the Fatigue on November 27, 2013, 06:10:02 PM
China wouldn't be allowed to call in the debt. One main reason our debt is so large right now is because so many countries wouldn't think twice about lending to us for the simple fact that we always pay our debts back, with interest, on time.
:whack:
Correct me if I'm wrong?
Well for one bonds are structured payments. You can't call in debt for those. The only thing you can do is choose to stop buying more which is what China has chosen to do.
Quote from: Junkenstein on November 27, 2013, 06:01:21 PM
Quote from: von on November 27, 2013, 05:32:23 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 27, 2013, 11:28:25 AM
>And we know how much value Asian societies put on face.
This seems flawed. Sure, there is "face" at stake, but in the all-in-all, there is also, oh, I dunno, their whole fucking economy.
wonder what percent of their manufacturing sector would collapse if we decided to say fuck it and engage a full embargo on them tomorrow. China would go from a "almost relevant" to "shit tier" nation over night...
Are you actually serious here? What makes you think that the USA wouldn't end up in a way worse position? For a start, China would call in ALL THE DEBT. How do you think that will end?
Poorly for everybody.
Quote from: Auscultare of the Fatigue on November 27, 2013, 11:33:11 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 27, 2013, 06:50:23 PM
Quote from: Auscultare of the Fatigue on November 27, 2013, 06:10:02 PM
China wouldn't be allowed to call in the debt. One main reason our debt is so large right now is because so many countries wouldn't think twice about lending to us for the simple fact that we always pay our debts back, with interest, on time.
:whack:
Correct me if I'm wrong?
The accrued collective debt has surpassed 17 trillion. It's built up over decades and is impossible to pay back even if every last penny of the GDP for a year was used to clear it.
I'm baffled and genuinely curious as to where you could have picked up that notion from?
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/9456882/China-sends-warplanes-into-defence-zone
QuoteChina has sent warplanes into its newly declared maritime air defence zone, state media reports from Beijing say.
The flights came after South Korean and Japanese flights through the zone added to the international defiance of rules Beijing says it has imposed in the East China Sea.
China's air force spokesman Shen Jinke said several fighter jets and an early warning aircraft were sent on normal air patrols in the zone. He was quoted by the state news agency Xinhua.
Shen described the flights as "a defensive measure and in line with international common practices." He said China's air force would remain on high alert and will take measures to protect the country's airspace.
Without prior notice, Beijing began demanding on Saturday that passing aircraft identify themselves and accept Chinese instructions or face consequences in an East China Sea zone that overlaps a similar air defence identification zone overseen by Japan since 1969 and initially part of one set up by the US military.
That was tested just days later by US B-52 flights - with Washington saying it made no effort to comply with China's rules, and would not do so in the future.
South Korea's military said its planes flew through the zone this week without informing China and with no apparent interference.
Japan also said its planes have continuing to fly through it after the Chinese announcement, while the Philippines, locked in an increasingly bitter dispute with Beijing over South China Sea islands, said it also was rejecting China's declaration.
Quote from: Faust on November 27, 2013, 11:49:46 PM
Quote from: Auscultare of the Fatigue on November 27, 2013, 11:33:11 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 27, 2013, 06:50:23 PM
Quote from: Auscultare of the Fatigue on November 27, 2013, 06:10:02 PM
China wouldn't be allowed to call in the debt. One main reason our debt is so large right now is because so many countries wouldn't think twice about lending to us for the simple fact that we always pay our debts back, with interest, on time.
:whack:
Correct me if I'm wrong?
The accrued collective debt has surpassed 17 trillion. It's built up over decades and is impossible to pay back even if every last penny of the GDP for a year was used to clear it.
I'm baffled and genuinely curious as to where you could have picked up that notion from?
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
I thought everybody KNEW we were in hock to China for trillions? WTF?
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on November 29, 2013, 12:00:22 AM
Quote from: Faust on November 27, 2013, 11:49:46 PM
Quote from: Auscultare of the Fatigue on November 27, 2013, 11:33:11 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 27, 2013, 06:50:23 PM
Quote from: Auscultare of the Fatigue on November 27, 2013, 06:10:02 PM
China wouldn't be allowed to call in the debt. One main reason our debt is so large right now is because so many countries wouldn't think twice about lending to us for the simple fact that we always pay our debts back, with interest, on time.
:whack:
Correct me if I'm wrong?
The accrued collective debt has surpassed 17 trillion. It's built up over decades and is impossible to pay back even if every last penny of the GDP for a year was used to clear it.
I'm baffled and genuinely curious as to where you could have picked up that notion from?
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
I thought everybody KNEW we were in hock to China for trillions? WTF?
That's THEIR problem, not ours, as ECH has mentioned.
Quote from: whenhellfreezes on November 27, 2013, 11:37:56 PM
Quote from: Auscultare of the Fatigue on November 27, 2013, 11:33:11 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 27, 2013, 06:50:23 PM
Quote from: Auscultare of the Fatigue on November 27, 2013, 06:10:02 PM
China wouldn't be allowed to call in the debt. One main reason our debt is so large right now is because so many countries wouldn't think twice about lending to us for the simple fact that we always pay our debts back, with interest, on time.
:whack:
Correct me if I'm wrong?
Well for one bonds are structured payments. You can't call in debt for those. The only thing you can do is choose to stop buying more which is what China has chosen to do.
Shhh.
Your avatar lady is giving me douche chills.
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on November 29, 2013, 03:30:12 AM
Your avatar lady is giving me douche chills.
It got ME all hot & bothered.
Quote from: Pæs on November 28, 2013, 11:35:20 PM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/9456882/China-sends-warplanes-into-defence-zone
QuoteChina has sent warplanes into its newly declared maritime air defence zone, state media reports from Beijing say.
The flights came after South Korean and Japanese flights through the zone added to the international defiance of rules Beijing says it has imposed in the East China Sea.
China's air force spokesman Shen Jinke said several fighter jets and an early warning aircraft were sent on normal air patrols in the zone. He was quoted by the state news agency Xinhua.
Shen described the flights as "a defensive measure and in line with international common practices." He said China's air force would remain on high alert and will take measures to protect the country's airspace.
Without prior notice, Beijing began demanding on Saturday that passing aircraft identify themselves and accept Chinese instructions or face consequences in an East China Sea zone that overlaps a similar air defence identification zone overseen by Japan since 1969 and initially part of one set up by the US military.
That was tested just days later by US B-52 flights - with Washington saying it made no effort to comply with China's rules, and would not do so in the future.
South Korea's military said its planes flew through the zone this week without informing China and with no apparent interference.
Japan also said its planes have continuing to fly through it after the Chinese announcement, while the Philippines, locked in an increasingly bitter dispute with Beijing over South China Sea islands, said it also was rejecting China's declaration.
Seems to me that the leaders of all these countries have decided that brinkmanship is the coolest thing in the world.
Quote from: whenhellfreezes on November 30, 2013, 01:32:30 AM
Quote from: Pæs on November 28, 2013, 11:35:20 PM
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/9456882/China-sends-warplanes-into-defence-zone
QuoteChina has sent warplanes into its newly declared maritime air defence zone, state media reports from Beijing say.
The flights came after South Korean and Japanese flights through the zone added to the international defiance of rules Beijing says it has imposed in the East China Sea.
China's air force spokesman Shen Jinke said several fighter jets and an early warning aircraft were sent on normal air patrols in the zone. He was quoted by the state news agency Xinhua.
Shen described the flights as "a defensive measure and in line with international common practices." He said China's air force would remain on high alert and will take measures to protect the country's airspace.
Without prior notice, Beijing began demanding on Saturday that passing aircraft identify themselves and accept Chinese instructions or face consequences in an East China Sea zone that overlaps a similar air defence identification zone overseen by Japan since 1969 and initially part of one set up by the US military.
That was tested just days later by US B-52 flights - with Washington saying it made no effort to comply with China's rules, and would not do so in the future.
South Korea's military said its planes flew through the zone this week without informing China and with no apparent interference.
Japan also said its planes have continuing to fly through it after the Chinese announcement, while the Philippines, locked in an increasingly bitter dispute with Beijing over South China Sea islands, said it also was rejecting China's declaration.
Seems to me that the leaders of all these countries have decided that brinkmanship is the coolest thing in the world.
HELLO, 1983!
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 29, 2013, 06:57:45 AM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on November 29, 2013, 03:30:12 AM
Your avatar lady is giving me douche chills.
It got ME all hot & bothered.
You're SICK, Mister. :lulz:
How's everything? You've been kind of scarce. Holidays rocking, I hope!
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on December 01, 2013, 01:26:54 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 29, 2013, 06:57:45 AM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on November 29, 2013, 03:30:12 AM
Your avatar lady is giving me douche chills.
It got ME all hot & bothered.
You're SICK, Mister. :lulz:
How's everything? You've been kind of scarce. Holidays rocking, I hope!
I've been sick. So I took to my sick bed, and played Civ5 and read Eric Flint novels until my immune system drove out the horrible chest cold thingie.
I wouldn't want the germs that can survive in Tucson.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 01, 2013, 04:21:32 AM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on December 01, 2013, 01:26:54 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 29, 2013, 06:57:45 AM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on November 29, 2013, 03:30:12 AM
Your avatar lady is giving me douche chills.
It got ME all hot & bothered.
You're SICK, Mister. :lulz:
How's everything? You've been kind of scarce. Holidays rocking, I hope!
I've been sick. So I took to my sick bed, and played Civ5 and read Eric Flint novels until my immune system drove out the horrible chest cold thingie.
Civ5? Fucking horrible game. It is doing horrible things to my weekends. And evenings. And nights. And uhm, i need to get up in about 5 hours, I just need to get the "I beat Civ5 without it crashing" headrush out of my system. I finally figured out the settings that don't turn it into a Blue Screen Error Bingo game.
Quote from: :regret: on December 01, 2013, 11:58:34 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 01, 2013, 04:21:32 AM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on December 01, 2013, 01:26:54 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 29, 2013, 06:57:45 AM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on November 29, 2013, 03:30:12 AM
Your avatar lady is giving me douche chills.
It got ME all hot & bothered.
You're SICK, Mister. :lulz:
How's everything? You've been kind of scarce. Holidays rocking, I hope!
I've been sick. So I took to my sick bed, and played Civ5 and read Eric Flint novels until my immune system drove out the horrible chest cold thingie.
Civ5? Fucking horrible game. It is doing horrible things to my weekends. And evenings. And nights. And uhm, i need to get up in about 5 hours, I just need to get the "I beat Civ5 without it crashing" headrush out of my system. I finally figured out the settings that don't turn it into a Blue Screen Error Bingo game.
You can nuke your own cities, you know.
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on December 01, 2013, 07:09:55 AM
I wouldn't want the germs that can survive in Tucson.
Survive? They drag you into an alley and beat the shit out of you. The police do nothing, because they're too busy scrunching their eyes shut in their squad cars and trying desperately to not shit themselves.
Is every day Black Friday in Tucson?
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on December 02, 2013, 01:31:34 AM
Is every day Black Friday in Tucson?
No, it's too hot to get that excited.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 02, 2013, 01:28:58 AM
Quote from: :regret: on December 01, 2013, 11:58:34 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 01, 2013, 04:21:32 AM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on December 01, 2013, 01:26:54 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 29, 2013, 06:57:45 AM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on November 29, 2013, 03:30:12 AM
Your avatar lady is giving me douche chills.
It got ME all hot & bothered.
You're SICK, Mister. :lulz:
How's everything? You've been kind of scarce. Holidays rocking, I hope!
I've been sick. So I took to my sick bed, and played Civ5 and read Eric Flint novels until my immune system drove out the horrible chest cold thingie.
Civ5? Fucking horrible game. It is doing horrible things to my weekends. And evenings. And nights. And uhm, i need to get up in about 5 hours, I just need to get the "I beat Civ5 without it crashing" headrush out of my system. I finally figured out the settings that don't turn it into a Blue Screen Error Bingo game.
You can nuke your own cities, you know.
Hmm, I'll have to try that.
I did declare war with no other reason than 'I was bored'.
The declaration came in the form of nukes on his everything.
Then i sent my soldiers into the nuclear wasteland to slaughter the last few survivors in his cities.
Surrender was not acceptable. One nuke was badly aimed and pissed off a city state so i made peace with them and bribed them into liking me again. Those people are weird, they get nuked and just get over it for a little bit of money.
Quote from: :regret: on December 02, 2013, 09:18:14 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 02, 2013, 01:28:58 AM
Quote from: :regret: on December 01, 2013, 11:58:34 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 01, 2013, 04:21:32 AM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on December 01, 2013, 01:26:54 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 29, 2013, 06:57:45 AM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on November 29, 2013, 03:30:12 AM
Your avatar lady is giving me douche chills.
It got ME all hot & bothered.
You're SICK, Mister. :lulz:
How's everything? You've been kind of scarce. Holidays rocking, I hope!
I've been sick. So I took to my sick bed, and played Civ5 and read Eric Flint novels until my immune system drove out the horrible chest cold thingie.
Civ5? Fucking horrible game. It is doing horrible things to my weekends. And evenings. And nights. And uhm, i need to get up in about 5 hours, I just need to get the "I beat Civ5 without it crashing" headrush out of my system. I finally figured out the settings that don't turn it into a Blue Screen Error Bingo game.
You can nuke your own cities, you know.
Hmm, I'll have to try that.
I did declare war with no other reason than 'I was bored'.
The declaration came in the form of nukes on his everything.
Then i sent my soldiers into the nuclear wasteland to slaughter the last few survivors in his cities.
Surrender was not acceptable. One nuke was badly aimed and pissed off a city state so i made peace with them and bribed them into liking me again. Those people are weird, they get nuked and just get over it for a little bit of money.
"Japan".
Except they haven't really forgiven us... Just as your city state is waiting for it's opportunity.
Quote from: Payne on December 02, 2013, 09:27:58 AM
Quote from: :regret: on December 02, 2013, 09:18:14 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 02, 2013, 01:28:58 AM
Quote from: :regret: on December 01, 2013, 11:58:34 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 01, 2013, 04:21:32 AM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on December 01, 2013, 01:26:54 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on November 29, 2013, 06:57:45 AM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on November 29, 2013, 03:30:12 AM
Your avatar lady is giving me douche chills.
It got ME all hot & bothered.
You're SICK, Mister. :lulz:
How's everything? You've been kind of scarce. Holidays rocking, I hope!
I've been sick. So I took to my sick bed, and played Civ5 and read Eric Flint novels until my immune system drove out the horrible chest cold thingie.
Civ5? Fucking horrible game. It is doing horrible things to my weekends. And evenings. And nights. And uhm, i need to get up in about 5 hours, I just need to get the "I beat Civ5 without it crashing" headrush out of my system. I finally figured out the settings that don't turn it into a Blue Screen Error Bingo game.
You can nuke your own cities, you know.
Hmm, I'll have to try that.
I did declare war with no other reason than 'I was bored'.
The declaration came in the form of nukes on his everything.
Then i sent my soldiers into the nuclear wasteland to slaughter the last few survivors in his cities.
Surrender was not acceptable. One nuke was badly aimed and pissed off a city state so i made peace with them and bribed them into liking me again. Those people are weird, they get nuked and just get over it for a little bit of money.
"Japan".
Except they haven't really forgiven us... Just as your city state is waiting for it's opportunity.
It is a good thing i quit while i was ahead then, i had no more nukes and all what was left of my army was wandering around a radioactive wasteland.
Quote from: von on November 27, 2013, 05:32:23 PM
Quote from: Cain on November 27, 2013, 11:28:25 AM
>And we know how much value Asian societies put on face.
This seems flawed. Sure, there is "face" at stake, but in the all-in-all, there is also, oh, I dunno, their whole fucking economy.
wonder what percent of their manufacturing sector would collapse if we decided to say fuck it and engage a full embargo on them tomorrow. China would go from a "almost relevant" to "shit tier" nation over night...
Their whole fucking economy is going to be totalled by increasing tensions in the East China Sea? What?
And while we're playing speculative games that have virtually nothing to do with the topic at hand, I wonder what would happen if China stopped lending money to the USA (http://www.econ.umn.edu/~tkehoe/papers/ForeignLendingEPP.pdf)?
Quote"During a sudden stop, the US interest rate would jump from 2.9 percent in 2014 to 5.5 percent in 2015," write Timothy J. Kehoe, Kim J. Ruhl, and Joseph B. Steinberg," authors of the report. "A sudden stop would cause a sharp contraction in construction output and employment, even more severe than during the collapse of the recent US boom."
Worse, the negative consequences wouldn't stop with construction. They would spread to the largest sector of the US economy, consumption, as household real incomes will fall. "U.S households would suffer a real income loss of $330 billion (1992 USD), 5.2 percent of 1992 U.S. GDP, compared with a scenario in which the saving glut had never occurred. That is, the total cost of disorderly sudden stop would be 16.1 percent of 1992 U.S GDP, or over $1 trillion ($689 billion plus $330 billion)."
:roll:
Quote from: Auscultare of the Fatigue on November 27, 2013, 06:10:02 PM
China wouldn't be allowed to call in the debt. One main reason our debt is so large right now is because so many countries wouldn't think twice about lending to us for the simple fact that we always pay our debts back, with interest, on time.
That's cute and, in theory, correct insofar as the US has not defaulted
so far.
The
actual reason is that investors are irrational and dumb, always looking for a quick way to make a buck, and a nuclear power is not going anywhere anytime soon. You can easily be a deadbeat with nuclear weapons, as Russia and Pakistan have proven.
There's also the whole "global reserve currency" thing. You know, the means by which the US gets cheaper loans than other states, and gives it a comparative advantage worth in excess of $100 billion per year.