Random thought: people are (in general terms, in western society) less happy than they may have been in generations past. This is only in part correlated with the distressing economic situation, there was a lot of vague anxiety/distress/depression going on culturally in the 90s, too. Take into account the fact that people (in general terms, in western society) are by all reasonable measurements getting smarter, and that smartness is correlated with mental health problems, and you have to ask: have we hit the tipping point where the majority of people are at significant risk of mental health concerns due to their intelligence?
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 17, 2013, 05:10:28 PM
Random thought: people are (in general terms, in western society) less happy than they may have been in generations past. This is only in part correlated with the distressing economic situation, there was a lot of vague anxiety/distress/depression going on culturally in the 90s, too. Take into account the fact that people (in general terms, in western society) are by all reasonable measurements getting smarter, and that smartness is correlated with mental health problems, and you have to ask: have we hit the tipping point where the majority of people are at significant risk of mental health concerns due to their intelligence?
Correlation != causation. It isn't due to their intelligence, it's due (IMO) to the never ending shit rain of bad signal that people are bombarded with all day every day.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 17, 2013, 05:11:41 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 17, 2013, 05:10:28 PM
Random thought: people are (in general terms, in western society) less happy than they may have been in generations past. This is only in part correlated with the distressing economic situation, there was a lot of vague anxiety/distress/depression going on culturally in the 90s, too. Take into account the fact that people (in general terms, in western society) are by all reasonable measurements getting smarter, and that smartness is correlated with mental health problems, and you have to ask: have we hit the tipping point where the majority of people are at significant risk of mental health concerns due to their intelligence?
Correlation != causation. It isn't due to their intelligence, it's due (IMO) to the never ending shit rain of bad signal that people are bombarded with all day every day.
That would be my take as well. It has less to do with rising intellect, because down here below the poverty level, I don't see an excess of genius. But what I do see is an excess of stress and worry.
Are we going to lose the house? How can I juggle two jobs and my kid's IEP at school? What do we do if the dog gets really sick? No Christmas bonus this year, but did lose fifteen hours a week until business picks up - eat or pay bills?
See a lot of that shit. It tends to lead to poor sleep, ulcers, and booze.
What does "less happy than generations past" mean? The average happiness level in the 50s was higher? Because if all that repression and homogenization, maybe? The 60s, with Vietnam? The 70s, with OPEC and Iran? The 80s, with AIDS?
When was this happier time?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 17, 2013, 05:43:56 PM
What does "less happy than generations past" mean? The average happiness level in the 50s was higher? Because if all that repression and homogenization, maybe? The 60s, with Vietnam? The 70s, with OPEC and Iran? The 80s, with AIDS?
When was this happier time?
http://www.everydayhealth.com/health-report/major-depression/depression-statistics.aspx
QuoteThe Rising Rate of Depression
Statistical trends related to depression are hard to come by, but most experts agree that depression rates in the United States and worldwide are increasing. Studies show that rates of depression for Americans have risen dramatically in the past 50 years. Research published in The American Journal of Psychiatry found that major depression rates for American adults increased from 3.33 percent to 7.06 percent from 1991 through 2002. Depression is also considered a worldwide epidemic, with 5 percent of the global population suffering from the condition, according to the World Health Organization.
Please note that I am not taking the position that things were better at any other point in history, just looking at the fact that we seem to be responding to stress with depression more now than we used to.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 17, 2013, 05:52:34 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 17, 2013, 05:43:56 PM
What does "less happy than generations past" mean? The average happiness level in the 50s was higher? Because if all that repression and homogenization, maybe? The 60s, with Vietnam? The 70s, with OPEC and Iran? The 80s, with AIDS?
When was this happier time?
http://www.everydayhealth.com/health-report/major-depression/depression-statistics.aspx
QuoteThe Rising Rate of Depression
Statistical trends related to depression are hard to come by, but most experts agree that depression rates in the United States and worldwide are increasing. Studies show that rates of depression for Americans have risen dramatically in the past 50 years. Research published in The American Journal of Psychiatry found that major depression rates for American adults increased from 3.33 percent to 7.06 percent from 1991 through 2002. Depression is also considered a worldwide epidemic, with 5 percent of the global population suffering from the condition, according to the World Health Organization.
Please note that I am not taking the position that things were better at any other point in history, just looking at the fact that we seem to be responding to stress with depression more now than we used to.
I think the shift has more to do with how we talk about it. The 'suck it up and soldier on in silence' thing seems to be losing hold in favor of spilling your guts about every single bad thing ever on Tumblr/Facebook/etc.
Plus, pushing pharmaceuticals is easier if there are more diagnoses.
If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail, etc.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 17, 2013, 05:52:34 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 17, 2013, 05:43:56 PM
What does "less happy than generations past" mean? The average happiness level in the 50s was higher? Because if all that repression and homogenization, maybe? The 60s, with Vietnam? The 70s, with OPEC and Iran? The 80s, with AIDS?
When was this happier time?
http://www.everydayhealth.com/health-report/major-depression/depression-statistics.aspx
QuoteThe Rising Rate of Depression
Statistical trends related to depression are hard to come by, but most experts agree that depression rates in the United States and worldwide are increasing. Studies show that rates of depression for Americans have risen dramatically in the past 50 years. Research published in The American Journal of Psychiatry found that major depression rates for American adults increased from 3.33 percent to 7.06 percent from 1991 through 2002. Depression is also considered a worldwide epidemic, with 5 percent of the global population suffering from the condition, according to the World Health Organization.
Please note that I am not taking the position that things were better at any other point in history, just looking at the fact that we seem to be responding to stress with depression more now than we used to.
It was hard to suffer from something that didn't exist. They just gave 'em Valium and lobotomies.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 17, 2013, 06:01:15 PM
Plus, pushing pharmaceuticals is easier if there are more diagnoses.
If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail, etc.
I feel like depression and anxiety are less prone to medication-related spikes in reporting because they're terms we've been familiar with for generations. There are some diagnoses that come in and out of "fashion," like bi-polar disorder, ADD/ADHD, aspergers and narcissism, but depression is so mundane that it's not prone to as much of the "I'm so special lookit my disability" over-reporting on the patient side, and there are effective generic medications to treat it so there's less pressure from the pharmaceutical end (now they just push "medication resistant depression" as a thing so they can sell you more pillz).
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 17, 2013, 06:07:42 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 17, 2013, 06:01:15 PM
Plus, pushing pharmaceuticals is easier if there are more diagnoses.
If you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail, etc.
I feel like depression and anxiety are less prone to medication-related spikes in reporting because they're terms we've been familiar with for generations. There are some diagnoses that come in and out of "fashion," like bi-polar disorder, ADD/ADHD, aspergers and narcissism, but depression is so mundane that it's not prone to as much of the "I'm so special lookit my disability" over-reporting on the patient side, and there are effective generic medications to treat it so there's less pressure from the pharmaceutical end (now they just push "medication resistant depression" as a thing so they can sell you more pillz).
You also have to remember that psychology has only been a science for 150 years, and has only been in any way a rigorous science for maybe 30. I'm being generous, here... if I was being hard-assed about it I'd say that it is just now in transition from a kind of ridiculous alchemy-type science to a rigorous one.
Dude, look at repressed memories. That was the 1980-90's, for fuck sake.
Ugh, I had to school a crossing guard on repressed memories the other day.
Yeah, this is definitely not one of my better theories, just a thing that flitted through my head and I figured it's worth throwing at the wall to see what sticks.
Might as well throw it out there and see if it goes anywhere. In this case, I would say there is insufficient evidence in support. Who knows, give it another 50 years.
I don't think average IQ has increased enough in the last 50 years that we could expect to see a correlated increase in depression, even if our diagnostic standard had been consistent since then. For one thing, although the observed average increase has been significant, most of the change has been on the low end; there are literally just a lot fewer people with IQ's low enough to be considered mentally deficient.
Quote from: Radagast's Red Velvet Pancake Puppies on December 17, 2013, 08:58:00 PM
Might as well throw it out there and see if it goes anywhere. In this case, I would say there is insufficient evidence in support. Who knows, give it another 50 years.
I don't think average IQ has increased enough in the last 50 years that we could expect to see a correlated increase in depression, even if our diagnostic standard had been consistent since then. For one thing, although the observed average increase has been significant, most of the change has been on the low end; there are literally just a lot fewer people with IQ's low enough to be considered mentally deficient.
But there are plenty enough for the ATF to use as Patsies:
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/12/allegations-against-the-atf-using-the-mentally-disabled-as-pawns/282226/
Quote from: Telarus on December 17, 2013, 09:20:00 PM
Quote from: Radagast's Red Velvet Pancake Puppies on December 17, 2013, 08:58:00 PM
Might as well throw it out there and see if it goes anywhere. In this case, I would say there is insufficient evidence in support. Who knows, give it another 50 years.
I don't think average IQ has increased enough in the last 50 years that we could expect to see a correlated increase in depression, even if our diagnostic standard had been consistent since then. For one thing, although the observed average increase has been significant, most of the change has been on the low end; there are literally just a lot fewer people with IQ's low enough to be considered mentally deficient.
But there are plenty enough for the ATF to use as Patsies:
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/12/allegations-against-the-atf-using-the-mentally-disabled-as-pawns/282226/
I'm
sure those were just exceptions, though... most of the folks working in those departments are good, upstanding guys.
:banana:
I'm curious whether we're less happy or whether our depression detecting surveys are more sensitive and our answers to them are more open.
Quote from: Pæs on December 17, 2013, 10:14:01 PM
I'm curious whether we're less happy or whether our depression detecting surveys are more sensitive and our answers to them are more open.
We can really only speculate, but I would tend to speculate yes, and also a cultural shift toward accepting depression rather than masking it.
This approach is not without drawbacks, of course.
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on December 17, 2013, 10:27:25 PM
Quote from: Pæs on December 17, 2013, 10:14:01 PM
I'm curious whether we're less happy or whether our depression detecting surveys are more sensitive and our answers to them are more open.
We can really only speculate, but I would tend to speculate yes, and also a cultural shift toward accepting depression rather than masking it.
This approach is not without drawbacks, of course.
I think I agree, because as I understand it, depression isn't "being sad", it's a chemical thingie.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on December 17, 2013, 10:34:08 PM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on December 17, 2013, 10:27:25 PM
Quote from: Pæs on December 17, 2013, 10:14:01 PM
I'm curious whether we're less happy or whether our depression detecting surveys are more sensitive and our answers to them are more open.
We can really only speculate, but I would tend to speculate yes, and also a cultural shift toward accepting depression rather than masking it.
This approach is not without drawbacks, of course.
I think I agree, because as I understand it, depression isn't "being sad", it's a chemical thingie.
Me too. I always thought it was a withdraw of those chemicals that make you happy like DMT etc..
Oh, yeah.. when I was depressed it was more a lack of any emotion than sadness. That's more or less passed, though. And by strictly chemical means(pills I mean) nothing else I could do could end it.
If you get smarter about how to be happy or happiness in general, than it's a wrap.
If you get smart about the wrong things, then it's a trap.
I read somewhere, sometime ago that knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.
I would also say that wisdom contains both knowledge, love, and happiness. Seek that if you are a go-getter.
Too many put the cart before the horse. I know that's something i do all the time, then wonder why we aren't going anywhere.
Quote from: JamesStrangefellow on May 19, 2014, 01:47:24 PM
If you get smarter about how to be happy or happiness in general, than it's a wrap.
If you get smart about the wrong things, then it's a trap.
I read somewhere, sometime ago that knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.
I would also say that wisdom contains both knowledge, love, and happiness. Seek that if you are a go-getter.
Too many put the cart before the horse. I know that's something i do all the time, then wonder why we aren't going anywhere.
This was amazing. All those words, and they don't say anything.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 19, 2014, 02:09:09 PM
Quote from: JamesStrangefellow on May 19, 2014, 01:47:24 PM
If you get smarter about how to be happy or happiness in general, than it's a wrap.
If you get smart about the wrong things, then it's a trap.
I read somewhere, sometime ago that knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.
I would also say that wisdom contains both knowledge, love, and happiness. Seek that if you are a go-getter.
Too many put the cart before the horse. I know that's something i do all the time, then wonder why we aren't going anywhere.
This was amazing. All those words, and they don't say anything.
the last time i saw a word say anything was on sesame street.
I think most do mime work when not making sentences or not making sense.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 19, 2014, 02:09:09 PM
Quote from: JamesStrangefellow on May 19, 2014, 01:47:24 PM
If you get smarter about how to be happy or happiness in general, than it's a wrap.
If you get smart about the wrong things, then it's a trap.
I read somewhere, sometime ago that knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.
I would also say that wisdom contains both knowledge, love, and happiness. Seek that if you are a go-getter.
Too many put the cart before the horse. I know that's something i do all the time, then wonder why we aren't going anywhere.
This was amazing. All those words, and they don't say anything.
Also, Roger you were probably going to get to the paradox of happiness. PARADOX ALERT
Excuse me good man for taking a page out of your sermon if so.
It's really difficult to be happy while actually seeking happiness. It's quite juxtipository. (I think that means someone always winds up taking it up the butt who doesn't like it up the butt)
When you seek to make others happy though, sincerely mean it, and let it affect you, it magikally appears in abundance.
I'm done. You just keep doing your thing, man.
Sorry, my brain shut off when you used sheldrake as a reference.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 17, 2013, 05:10:28 PM
Random thought: people are (in general terms, in western society) less happy than they may have been in generations past. This is only in part correlated with the distressing economic situation, there was a lot of vague anxiety/distress/depression going on culturally in the 90s, too. Take into account the fact that people (in general terms, in western society) are by all reasonable measurements getting smarter, and that smartness is correlated with mental health problems, and you have to ask: have we hit the tipping point where the majority of people are at significant risk of mental health concerns due to their intelligence?
Interesting, but it seems, generally speaking, that 'we' are more depressed because some of us are more present than others and it is fucking defeating. Exhausting. I no longer wonder why ranters rant on PD like undiscipline mental disasters.
Quote from: Inge on June 08, 2014, 04:39:54 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 17, 2013, 05:10:28 PM
Random thought: people are (in general terms, in western society) less happy than they may have been in generations past. This is only in part correlated with the distressing economic situation, there was a lot of vague anxiety/distress/depression going on culturally in the 90s, too. Take into account the fact that people (in general terms, in western society) are by all reasonable measurements getting smarter, and that smartness is correlated with mental health problems, and you have to ask: have we hit the tipping point where the majority of people are at significant risk of mental health concerns due to their intelligence?
Interesting, but it seems, generally speaking, that 'we' are more depressed because some of us are more present than others and it is fucking defeating. Exhausting. I no longer wonder why ranters rant on PD like undiscipline mental disasters.
Thanks, RWHN. Enjoy your new alt for a few minutes.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 08, 2014, 05:14:57 PM
Quote from: Inge on June 08, 2014, 04:39:54 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 17, 2013, 05:10:28 PM
Random thought: people are (in general terms, in western society) less happy than they may have been in generations past. This is only in part correlated with the distressing economic situation, there was a lot of vague anxiety/distress/depression going on culturally in the 90s, too. Take into account the fact that people (in general terms, in western society) are by all reasonable measurements getting smarter, and that smartness is correlated with mental health problems, and you have to ask: have we hit the tipping point where the majority of people are at significant risk of mental health concerns due to their intelligence?
Interesting, but it seems, generally speaking, that 'we' are more depressed because some of us are more present than others and it is fucking defeating. Exhausting. I no longer wonder why ranters rant on PD like undiscipline mental disasters.
Thanks, RWHN. Enjoy your new alt for a few minutes.
I've been blocked from a few sites for being declared a "sock"... I'm amazed at how such an exhibited show of intellect would prove so faulty in factual reality.
Quote from: Inge on June 08, 2014, 05:38:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 08, 2014, 05:14:57 PM
Quote from: Inge on June 08, 2014, 04:39:54 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 17, 2013, 05:10:28 PM
Random thought: people are (in general terms, in western society) less happy than they may have been in generations past. This is only in part correlated with the distressing economic situation, there was a lot of vague anxiety/distress/depression going on culturally in the 90s, too. Take into account the fact that people (in general terms, in western society) are by all reasonable measurements getting smarter, and that smartness is correlated with mental health problems, and you have to ask: have we hit the tipping point where the majority of people are at significant risk of mental health concerns due to their intelligence?
Interesting, but it seems, generally speaking, that 'we' are more depressed because some of us are more present than others and it is fucking defeating. Exhausting. I no longer wonder why ranters rant on PD like undiscipline mental disasters.
Thanks, RWHN. Enjoy your new alt for a few minutes.
I've been blocked from a few sites for being declared a "sock"... I'm amazed at how such an exhibited show of intellect would prove so faulty in factual reality.
BLAH BLAH BLAH
Gee, I don't know. You kick the door in and act like an arse to a specific set of people, choice of name, inability to NOT post on a drug thread, and generally act like a butthurt asshole on day 1.
So, either you're RWHN back for your glorious vengeance, or you're just a complete asshole.
The end result is the same. But it can't be you, right? It has to be all the boards that have banned you for being a sock.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 08, 2014, 05:41:01 PM
Quote from: Inge on June 08, 2014, 05:38:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 08, 2014, 05:14:57 PM
Quote from: Inge on June 08, 2014, 04:39:54 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 17, 2013, 05:10:28 PM
Random thought: people are (in general terms, in western society) less happy than they may have been in generations past. This is only in part correlated with the distressing economic situation, there was a lot of vague anxiety/distress/depression going on culturally in the 90s, too. Take into account the fact that people (in general terms, in western society) are by all reasonable measurements getting smarter, and that smartness is correlated with mental health problems, and you have to ask: have we hit the tipping point where the majority of people are at significant risk of mental health concerns due to their intelligence?
Interesting, but it seems, generally speaking, that 'we' are more depressed because some of us are more present than others and it is fucking defeating. Exhausting. I no longer wonder why ranters rant on PD like undiscipline mental disasters.
Thanks, RWHN. Enjoy your new alt for a few minutes.
I've been blocked from a few sites for being declared a "sock"... I'm amazed at how such an exhibited show of intellect would prove so faulty in factual reality.
BLAH BLAH BLAH
Gee, I don't know. You kick the door in and act like an arse to a specific set of people, choice of name, inability to NOT post on a drug thread, and generally act like a butthurt asshole on day 1.
So, either you're RWHN back for your glorious vengeance, or you're just a complete asshole.
The end result is the same. But it can't be you, right? It has to be all the boards that have banned you for being a sock.
It wasn't ALL the boards, perhaps it was that I merely tend to prefer boards that seem to share common USERS. I don't agree that psychotic influences are necessarily drug induced. It is my belief that our tendancy to pressure cook certain types of personalities into devastatingly irrevocable consequential REACTIVE states of mind is reprehensibly FLAWED. Hence, the why I posted on a drug related thread.
Seriously, TGRR, chill.
QG, when this shit is over, thread will be split.
Honestly, this thread was kinda crap from the start. Everyone has dumb ideas from time to time.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 09, 2014, 03:22:51 PM
Honestly, this thread was kinda crap from the start. Everyone has dumb ideas from time to time.
I don't. I am a font of amazingly useful advice.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 09, 2014, 03:24:58 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 09, 2014, 03:22:51 PM
Honestly, this thread was kinda crap from the start. Everyone has dumb ideas from time to time.
I don't. I am a font of amazingly useful advice.
But you're a lizard person, it's different.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 09, 2014, 03:42:17 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 09, 2014, 03:24:58 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on June 09, 2014, 03:22:51 PM
Honestly, this thread was kinda crap from the start. Everyone has dumb ideas from time to time.
I don't. I am a font of amazingly useful advice.
But you're a lizard person, it's different.
DEAD Lizard person. More of a disembodied & malignant spirit.
Fleshy ones must pay.
I'm intrigued why it's such a common idea that being smarter would make you more sad. Maybe I'm too dumb to see the connection, or just too happy to care.
Quote from: nurbldoff on June 18, 2014, 12:49:53 AM
I'm intrigued why it's such a common idea that being smarter would make you more sad. Maybe I'm too dumb to see the connection, or just too happy to care.
Maybe because there's a significant statistical correlation between intelligence and depression, suicide, and alcoholism.
I don't know, call me an empiricist.
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on June 18, 2014, 08:06:01 AM
Quote from: nurbldoff on June 18, 2014, 12:49:53 AM
I'm intrigued why it's such a common idea that being smarter would make you more sad. Maybe I'm too dumb to see the connection, or just too happy to care.
Maybe because there's a significant statistical correlation between intelligence and depression, suicide, and alcoholism.
I don't know, call me an empiricist.
I realised an upside to this correlation.
My constant depression and alcoholism implies that i actually was intelligent, instead of extremely deluded. i was starting to think that.
Then again, I may just be one of the
other datapoints and actually am dumb and delusional.
(I'm fishing for compliments here, please compliment my intelligence, lie if you have to.)
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on June 18, 2014, 08:06:01 AM
Quote from: nurbldoff on June 18, 2014, 12:49:53 AM
I'm intrigued why it's such a common idea that being smarter would make you more sad. Maybe I'm too dumb to see the connection, or just too happy to care.
Maybe because there's a significant statistical correlation between intelligence and depression, suicide, and alcoholism.
I don't know, call me an empiricist.
You and your "science".
Quote from: Regret on June 19, 2014, 01:19:12 PM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on June 18, 2014, 08:06:01 AM
Quote from: nurbldoff on June 18, 2014, 12:49:53 AM
I'm intrigued why it's such a common idea that being smarter would make you more sad. Maybe I'm too dumb to see the connection, or just too happy to care.
Maybe because there's a significant statistical correlation between intelligence and depression, suicide, and alcoholism.
I don't know, call me an empiricist.
I realised an upside to this correlation.
My constant depression and alcoholism implies that i actually was intelligent, instead of extremely deluded. i was starting to think that.
Then again, I may just be one of the other datapoints and actually am dumb and delusional.
(I'm fishing for compliments here, please compliment my intelligence, lie if you have to.)
Instead of draggin you up from a way you may need to gain the experience of dwelling within, I'll simply share:
http://youtu.be/TyjFvMJF_Lg (http://youtu.be/TyjFvMJF_Lg)
Currently my favorite.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on June 20, 2014, 03:02:22 AM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on June 18, 2014, 08:06:01 AM
Quote from: nurbldoff on June 18, 2014, 12:49:53 AM
I'm intrigued why it's such a common idea that being smarter would make you more sad. Maybe I'm too dumb to see the connection, or just too happy to care.
Maybe because there's a significant statistical correlation between intelligence and depression, suicide, and alcoholism.
I don't know, call me an empiricist.
You and your "science".
I GOTTA BE ME
Actually, I did a presentation on the Self-Esteem movement for a sociology of deviance class and one particularly terrifying remark I read in one of the papers was that there is no objective measure of self esteem. This, on its face, is not necessarily a bad thing but it DOES call into question any and all past studies of the phenomena that did not maintain any timidity in its conclusion.
On to my point, the lack of objectivity in determining a person's "self esteem" is bad for several reasons. It means that over time, there may be a shift in how much self esteem is needed in order to be classified as having a "normal" level of self esteem. As some people who were raised on the ideas within the self esteem movement choose to go into the field of psychology, they will invariably be biased in determining who has a "high" level of self esteem.
Also connected to this idea is that average self esteem lies above the midpoint of the scale used to measure it. The idea for most scales is that they fall on a standard normal model (bell curve), but for self esteem the majority of the population, including those with "low" self esteem, are above five on a scale of 1-10.
Also disturbing was the lack of evidence cited in the 1986 California paper leading to the "self esteem task force" that, while not inherently a bad thing, gave governmental legitimization to the idea that self esteem caused bad things to happen, but that's altogether an unrelated and even stupider idea like suggesting that shoe size is a causal factor in determining intelligence.
"Self-esteem" is correlated with depression, and while I know that means it is not necessarily caused by it, I can see how there could be a connection IF there is merit to the idea presented originally. It would just be another thing that needs to be taken into consideration.
EDIT: For those who want to know the name of the paper, it is "Does self esteem cause better performance, interpersonal success, happiness or healthier lifestyles?"
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on December 17, 2013, 05:59:10 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 17, 2013, 05:52:34 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 17, 2013, 05:43:56 PM
What does "less happy than generations past" mean? The average happiness level in the 50s was higher? Because if all that repression and homogenization, maybe? The 60s, with Vietnam? The 70s, with OPEC and Iran? The 80s, with AIDS?
When was this happier time?
http://www.everydayhealth.com/health-report/major-depression/depression-statistics.aspx
QuoteThe Rising Rate of Depression
Statistical trends related to depression are hard to come by, but most experts agree that depression rates in the United States and worldwide are increasing. Studies show that rates of depression for Americans have risen dramatically in the past 50 years. Research published in The American Journal of Psychiatry found that major depression rates for American adults increased from 3.33 percent to 7.06 percent from 1991 through 2002. Depression is also considered a worldwide epidemic, with 5 percent of the global population suffering from the condition, according to the World Health Organization.
Please note that I am not taking the position that things were better at any other point in history, just looking at the fact that we seem to be responding to stress with depression more now than we used to.
I think the shift has more to do with how we talk about it. The 'suck it up and soldier on in silence' thing seems to be losing hold in favor of spilling your guts about every single bad thing ever on Tumblr/Facebook/etc.
One thing i would like to toss into the debate is the growing field of Positive psychology which.... posits that a lot of things that determine our level of satisfaction and contentment with our lives has very little to do with our circumstances. You can be a multibillionaire with a supermodel trophy wife and three sons who are astronauts and still want to drink yourself to death. Of the things that are supposed to help maintain "positive affect" (general goodfeels about life) the one that the above posts brought to my mind is internal locus of control, the belief that what happens to oneself is within ones control, and that one can improve ones lot through their own efforts. I think one big difference is that a lot of the ways we used to try to improve ourselves are out of our control.
Want to get a better job? good luck in this economy.
Wanna go back to school? Have fun with all that debt, cuz a degree costs more than a car now.
Wanna take a moment to at least appreciate the things you have right now? Better make it quick, office monkey, those phones aren't gonna answer themselves, and also we're gonna need you to work overtime before you head to the second job you need to support your family, which you wont get to see, because you're too busy supporting them.
It's getting to the point where the only smart moves we have left involve shutting up and being a good little cog and praying to a SMILING GOD that one day we'll retire before we die of stress.That's where the depression comes from.
I'm jumping in here, please don't misanthropically misappropriate misa me.
I think the OT correlation makes a point to question the causal direction b/t depression & intelligence, more pointed than obverse "ignorance is bliss".
Depression: 1st Order - causal inefficacy w.r.t. "locus of control" - general
2nd ||. - ||. ||. Depression itself - specific
As the disease turns against itself, it seems intelligence grows at the expense of praxis. So for as smart as we get, it does not really end up doing anything, other than fortifying the illness.
At it's source, I think depression is actually caused by a tantalizing misconception of what it means to be having the human experience. As long as we continue to force the idea that making a difference involves the causal efficacy to perform a specific task, we lose the deeper connection to the involvement in experience that occurs before any specific intention is even determinately known, let alone completed.
Our experience of freedom has been masked and concealed to only reveal what our "masters" allow us to consider. Then we take it personally when we do not perform according to our now internalized limitations. Has me banging my head against the wall sometimes. It's like a paradox in which I resign myself to getting out of my own way in order to actually approach myself.
Quote from: LuciferX on July 20, 2014, 06:32:35 PM
Our experience of freedom has been masked and concealed to only reveal what our "masters" allow us to consider. Then we take it personally when we do not perform according to our now internalized limitations. Has me banging my head against the wall sometimes. It's like a paradox in which I resign myself to getting out of my own way in order to actually approach myself.
An interesting documentary about that was made by a guy named Adam Curtis called "The Trap". It has three parts, with each one around an hour a piece but I would say it's worth a watch. Basically, it suggests in the first two parts that people have had limited conceptions of each other as simply "rational" beings, (which I would go so far as to say is hilariously misguided) that was caused in part due to game theory as an academic/economic discipline. I'm probably botching the synopsis, but the third part goes on to say that there is a split between "positive" and "negative" liberty. Positive liberty is the right to do things and "live up to your full potential" garbage while negative liberty is the freedom to NOT be restrained or constrained by the government. It goes on to suggest that positive liberty HAS to be suppressed because it inevitably leads to a revolution. I don't like his conclusion, because he says that it DOESN'T have to lead to revolution. I don't see why it shouldn't lead to a revolution, because "f**k the system!" and all dat jazz.
What I said in my other post, however, may very well negate any kind of depression "epidemic". Depression is just as subjective a phenomena as is self esteem, based on how a person says he or she feels most or all of the time. It's easy to see everyone on Facebook having a bias towards posting positive things that they don't hear about how sh*tty the rest of the other users' lives are.
Quote from: zackli on July 20, 2014, 09:46:04 PM
Quote from: LuciferX on July 20, 2014, 06:32:35 PM
Our experience of freedom has been masked and concealed to only reveal what our "masters" allow us to consider. Then we take it personally when we do not perform according to our now internalized limitations. Has me banging my head against the wall sometimes. It's like a paradox in which I resign myself to getting out of my own way in order to actually approach myself.
An interesting documentary about that was made by a guy named Adam Curtis called "The Trap". It has three parts, with each one around an hour a piece but I would say it's worth a watch. Basically, it suggests in the first two parts that people have had limited conceptions of each other as simply "rational" beings, (which I would go so far as to say is hilariously misguided) that was caused in part due to game theory as an academic/economic discipline. I'm probably botching the synopsis, but the third part goes on to say that there is a split between "positive" and "negative" liberty. Positive liberty is the right to do things and "live up to your full potential" garbage while negative liberty is the freedom to NOT be restrained or constrained by the government. It goes on to suggest that positive liberty HAS to be suppressed because it inevitably leads to a revolution. I don't like his conclusion, because he says that it DOESN'T have to lead to revolution. I don't see why it shouldn't lead to a revolution, because "f**k the system!" and all dat jazz.
What I said in my other post, however, may very well negate any kind of depression "epidemic". Depression is just as subjective a phenomena as is self esteem, based on how a person says he or she feels most or all of the time. It's easy to see everyone on Facebook having a bias towards posting positive things that they don't hear about how sh*tty the rest of the other users' lives are.
Yea, I totally enjoyed that doc. even though it still suffered from the kind of thinking it was trying to overcome.
W.r.t. "epidemic" - I agree, self-esteem is not a good metric for a whole shit-ton of reasons. At the root of it, the problem is not a measure of esteem. The problem is how easily we are distracted from the understanding of ourselves existing prior to a definition of freedom that is either positive or negative (re. above). A question of esteem is also only the result of having lost self-respect. All signals of a systemic problem.
Quote from: LuciferX on July 20, 2014, 10:15:18 PM
Quote from: zackli on July 20, 2014, 09:46:04 PM
Quote from: LuciferX on July 20, 2014, 06:32:35 PM
Our experience of freedom has been masked and concealed to only reveal what our "masters" allow us to consider. Then we take it personally when we do not perform according to our now internalized limitations. Has me banging my head against the wall sometimes. It's like a paradox in which I resign myself to getting out of my own way in order to actually approach myself.
An interesting documentary about that was made by a guy named Adam Curtis called "The Trap". It has three parts, with each one around an hour a piece but I would say it's worth a watch. Basically, it suggests in the first two parts that people have had limited conceptions of each other as simply "rational" beings, (which I would go so far as to say is hilariously misguided) that was caused in part due to game theory as an academic/economic discipline. I'm probably botching the synopsis, but the third part goes on to say that there is a split between "positive" and "negative" liberty. Positive liberty is the right to do things and "live up to your full potential" garbage while negative liberty is the freedom to NOT be restrained or constrained by the government. It goes on to suggest that positive liberty HAS to be suppressed because it inevitably leads to a revolution. I don't like his conclusion, because he says that it DOESN'T have to lead to revolution. I don't see why it shouldn't lead to a revolution, because "f**k the system!" and all dat jazz.
What I said in my other post, however, may very well negate any kind of depression "epidemic". Depression is just as subjective a phenomena as is self esteem, based on how a person says he or she feels most or all of the time. It's easy to see everyone on Facebook having a bias towards posting positive things that they don't hear about how sh*tty the rest of the other users' lives are.
Yea, I totally enjoyed that doc. even though it still suffered from the kind of thinking it was trying to overcome.
W.r.t. "epidemic" - I agree, self-esteem is not a good metric for a whole shit-ton of reasons. At the root of it, the problem is not a measure of esteem. The problem is how easily we are distracted from the understanding of ourselves existing prior to a definition of freedom that is either positive or negative (re. above). A question of esteem is also only the result of having lost self-respect. All signals of a systemic problem.
I'm not clear what you mean by the part in bold. Are you suggesting you don't like it because it says that positive liberty can or can not proceed without inevitably leading to a revolution? The thinking it was trying to overcome was that it was impossible to proceed without a revolution, and the conclusion was that it CAN proceed without a revolution. I don't like it because it says that it can proceed without a revolution. I don't necessarily think there should be one, but I think it is important to consider the evidence against that conclusion before unanimously declaring it possible.
As far as the rest of it goes, in the paper I cited in my other response there was another general tendency noted for some people to be more biased negatively in their responses to everything and some people were more biased positively. That would also need to be taken into consideration before any depression or self esteem scale was to be taken seriously. That paper, while a bit lengthy at 41 pages, was actually fascinating in what it had to say. I highly suggest reading it if you like that sort of thing. It's easily accessible via Google in full. Also, "The Social Importance of Self-Esteem", which is the paper that sort of preceded the self-esteem task force in California is fascinating in its implications for society combined with the lack of substance so far as evidence towards its conclusion is concerned.
Depression is not low self esteem.
Penny: it's true, though they may be correlated
Zackly: I enjoyed the series, however, I can't say it left me with a sense of levity. I think I wanted and/or was expecting it to be more uplifting in the long run.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism
related?
Quote from: Pope Pixie Pickle on July 21, 2014, 04:09:10 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism
related?
My immediate reaction was to differentiate accuracy and truth.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 21, 2014, 01:41:09 AM
Depression is not low self esteem.
Yes, brilliant.
Do you know how the two are diagnosed?
Simple self esteem questionnaire:
http://www.counseling.ufl.edu/cwc/uploads/docs/Sorensen_Self-Esteem_Test.pdf
Simple depression questionnaire:
http://phqscreeners.com/pdfs/02_PHQ-9/English.pdf
If you can not see the similarities, please let me know and I will be more explicit with my condescension and sarcastic remarks.
Oh please, explain. I've not had a good laugh all day.
Quote from: zackli on July 22, 2014, 07:19:38 AM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 21, 2014, 01:41:09 AM
Depression is not low self esteem.
Yes, brilliant.
Do you know how the two are diagnosed?
Simple self esteem questionnaire:
http://www.counseling.ufl.edu/cwc/uploads/docs/Sorensen_Self-Esteem_Test.pdf
Simple depression questionnaire:
http://phqscreeners.com/pdfs/02_PHQ-9/English.pdf
If you can not see the similarities, please let me know and I will be more explicit with my condescension and sarcastic remarks.
If you actually think mental issues are diagnosed using short questionnaires, please let me know and I will be more explicit with my condescension and sarcastic remarks.
Quote from: Raz Tech on July 22, 2014, 12:24:42 PM
Quote from: zackli on July 22, 2014, 07:19:38 AM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 21, 2014, 01:41:09 AM
Depression is not low self esteem.
Yes, brilliant.
Do you know how the two are diagnosed?
Simple self esteem questionnaire:
http://www.counseling.ufl.edu/cwc/uploads/docs/Sorensen_Self-Esteem_Test.pdf
Simple depression questionnaire:
http://phqscreeners.com/pdfs/02_PHQ-9/English.pdf
If you can not see the similarities, please let me know and I will be more explicit with my condescension and sarcastic remarks.
If you actually think mental issues are diagnosed using short questionnaires, please let me know and I will be more explicit with my condescension and sarcastic remarks.
I believe that in the Industry, this is known as "win-win".
We're being a little harsh.
After all, short questionnaires written by clowns have told me my favourite colour, which circle of hell I'm heading to and many other things which are obviously accurate and life changing.
Is he still too new for me to call a shitheel?
i believe it was a 50 post rule back in the seas of time.
I've personally revised my stance to around 5 posts. It's usually pretty obvious which way it's going by that point.
And there I was thinking a common ground could be something other than sarcasm. :horrormirth:
Has anyone looked at those links? This is some seriously terribly shoddy shit.
QuoteSimple self esteem questionnaire:
http://www.counseling.ufl.edu/cwc/uploads/docs/Sorensen_Self-Esteem_Test.pdf
Look at this heap of shit. Just look at it.
In case you're struggling, look at this too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading
Now look again the scoring matrix.
Now look at the website/author it seems to promote:
http://www.getesteem.com/
Now tell me which part doesn't seem like some kind of bullshit scam.
QuoteAfter 36 years years of practice, achieving her PhD and Psychologist license, Dr. Sorensen has decided to relinquish her Psychologist license at the end of April, 2014, and will work under the title of Dr. Marilyn J Sorensen, Self-Esteem Recovery Specialist. She does not maintain an office in Portland, but works out of her home by Skype™
A Psychologist license is not necessary for the work Dr. Sorensen does. She works only with people who have issues around low self-esteem. This is not a recognized diagnosis for Psychologists.
That's a little misleading. It seems to be in the DSM V as a symptom for a number of things, rather than a be-all end-all diagnosis. Almost as though there's other factors involved in a larger problem.
The lengthy biography page continues with random sections bolded with significantly less impressive non-bolded parts. For all her rave reviews and "5 books" she appears to have no significant internet presence beyond that website. Everything about this screams scam to me. I'd strongly suspect that if you paid for a session and you do actually have low self esteem your bank account will be quite empty in short order.
Apparently Portland based so if any of you locals care to find out more, I'd be glad to retract the above if wrong. She's not presenting it well if it's real and legitimate, I'll say that much.
After typing the above, I'm starting to understand why the US has as many mental health issues as it does.
ETA - http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Oc7txrbPVz4C&sitesec=reviews&rf=ns:3
For such an acclaimed author those 5 reviews are terrible. One of the 5 stars reads like it was written by a freind (who also has similar crap to sell you), 3 others are fairly short with no content and the 3 star reads like it was written by LuciferX. This does not say "legit" to me. At all.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/reviews/Breaking-the-Chain-of-Low-Self-Esteem%2FMarilyn-Sorensen/1007151374?ean=9780966431506
10 anon 5 star reviews. Totally legit.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Breaking-Chain-Self-esteem-Marilyn-Sorenson/dp/0966431502/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1406057321&sr=1-1&keywords=Breaking+the+Chain+of+Low+Self-Esteem
4 reviews, 3 anon, all 5/5!!!!!Lifechanging!!!! No problem here. At all.
Thank you, Junkie
It's also nice to see you make a saving by not going for dead tree:
(http://media.screensteps.me/meggrace/dmdetj/187140f5-beb1-4d47-ba53-0faec0cef09e.png?1366665695)
When I started this, I was wary that I may be being overly harsh. The more I look at, the less I'm thinking that.
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 22, 2014, 07:09:34 PM
Has anyone looked at those links? This is some seriously terribly shoddy shit.
...
Now look at the website/author it seems to promote:
http://www.getesteem.com/
...
The lengthy biography page continues with random sections bolded with significantly less impressive non-bolded parts. For all her rave reviews and "5 books" she appears to have no significant internet For such an acclaimed author those 5 reviews are terrible. One of the 5 stars reads like it was written by a freind (who also has similar crap to sell you), 3 others are fairly short with no content and the 3 star reads like it was written by LuciferX. This does not say "legit" to me. At all.
"
Someone, sell me this pen" :lulz:
Junk wins!After re-reading your invidious comparison, involving me, it would be disparaging of me to mention that I also find you always occupy a place of keen interest, in my thoughts. Kisses.
You wrote that review didn't you? Admit it.
QuoteInvestigating the criminal mind has been a life long commitment both within the western family unit and the various political cultural aspects these find themselves. Coming to understand that the battle not only is in the inner world of one's faulty thinking, but what lead a person to an aloof mindset associated with the schools of thought in regards to freewill, and civil liberty.
I guess many bored folks whom are bored derive some tweisted power in the mental derailure of others but this book would hopefully open up some options. I think therapy is good for all concerned.
You're not fooling anyone with a couple of typos you know. Stop shilling for these people. It encourages more of them.
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 22, 2014, 09:07:37 PM
You wrote that review didn't you? Admit it.
QuoteInvestigating the criminal mind has been a life long commitment both within the western family unit and the various political cultural aspects these find themselves. Coming to understand that the battle not only is in the inner world of one's faulty thinking, but what lead a person to an aloof mindset associated with the schools of thought in regards to freewill, and civil liberty.
I guess many bored folks whom are bored derive some tweisted power in the mental derailure of others but this book would hopefully open up some options. I think therapy is good for all concerned.
You're not fooling anyone with a couple of typos you know. Stop shilling for these people. It encourages more of them.
BUT I WAS USING TOR :argh!:
(derailure :lulz:)
Well, if you're not going to stop shilling, at least get me some work out of them. Thought/memo - Mystery shop some shilling orgs. Amusing shit almost guaranteed.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 17, 2013, 05:10:28 PM
have we hit the tipping point where the majority of people are at significant risk of mental health concerns due to their intelligence?
Anyway, back to this.
I'm starting to think that there may be a significant degree of people at risk of mental health issues just based on environment alone.
Take Austerity for example. Quite a number of people have been negatively affected by the various things implemented and it would seem logical to me that quite a few "borderline, but coping" (for want of actual terms,anyone correct me here) got the push they need over the edge.
Another example of environment causing mental health issues would be a situation like Bhopal. Here an industrial accident has fucked an area quite brutally and you can't say that this won't be damaging the mental health of any number of people. Ask anyone with any experience of caring for the elderly or infirm how much fun it is and run for cover. Now imagine if that was your family and neighbors and pretty much everyone you know. "That shit doesn't happen here" you say, but consider the 9/11 emergency workers who got fucked royally for years with health issues and medical bills and tell me that doesn't take a mental toll. There's a news story weekly about asbestos being found everywhere in somewhere people are wandering through regularly. I'd put money that there's at least one a month in most states.
Media saturation within the environment is another angle. Any disaster is magnified and hyper focused on until a new, more horrible thing happens to focus on. Recall the last time you had three running days where the headline anywhere was good news. Two? One? I'm sure many others have written much more at length about this kind of thing. I'll just say there's the other side with photoshopped magazine covers and such, and the links to body issues and associated mental health issues. It's a whole bag of shit and it feels very related to me. I would also say intelligence is largely moot when it comes to media. High or low, most people inevitably consume a lot of it and no-one is totally aware all the time of the particular angle or subtext, or able to analyse and confirm/reject it. So shit slips through, sometimes good, often bad.
As much as I hate to use the term, Set and Setting. You've got people in a variety of mental states to start with. What's the setting? Well, if the environment varies too, but if it's bad there's really nothing stopping things going to hell without consciously acknowledging that shit's bad and we need to make it better, somehow. Then focus on improving shit.
There's more, but I'm probably rambling.
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 22, 2014, 11:14:00 AM
Oh please, explain. I've not had a good laugh all day.
Probably should have paid more attention to the links I collected, buuuuuut there's no changing that now so here we are. You guys get to call me stupid :( Please do it as hard as you can, no one has had the opportunity to call me stupid for quite some time.
Self-esteem and depression ARE inversely correlated according to the mental health world, though. Society harbors the delusion that everyone is special, and if you can't see that you're special you just need to take this here blue (or red or yellow or white or orange) pill to make you see how special you are. I didn't learn a damn thing about psychological disorders in my abnormal psychology class, but I sure learned why the next generation of workers in the mental health community is going to suck.
Quote from: Raz Tech on July 22, 2014, 12:24:42 PM
If you actually think mental issues are diagnosed using short questionnaires, please let me know and I will be more explicit with my condescension and sarcastic remarks.
That is just one small part of the whole clinical process. The second step is where the clinician proceeds to interview you with a list of questions suspiciously like the questionnaire you just answered, only with a little bit more detail. I would know, I'm a PRO at being interviewed.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 22, 2014, 01:43:03 PM
I believe that in the Industry, this is known as "win-win".
Yes.
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 22, 2014, 02:09:09 PM
We're being a little harsh.
After all, short questionnaires written by clowns have told me my favourite colour, which circle of hell I'm heading to and many other things which are obviously accurate and life changing.
OMG, what circle am I going to? I hope it's the one with four sides.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 22, 2014, 03:50:48 PM
Is he still too new for me to call a shitheel?
I don't mind being called a shitheel. I don't know what it means so I'll absorb it without caring or understanding what it means.
Quote from: LuciferX on July 22, 2014, 06:41:40 PM
And there I was thinking a common ground could be something other than sarcasm. :horrormirth:
That's the only ground any of us share. The rest of it is just spaghetti and meatballs.
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 22, 2014, 10:05:23 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 17, 2013, 05:10:28 PM
have we hit the tipping point where the majority of people are at significant risk of mental health concerns due to their intelligence?
Anyway, back to this.
Yes, back to that. I think there are a couple of psychological phenomena that may be contributing to the problem, one of which you mentioned. One of these is groupthink, which is made worse by the media and to varying degrees by various different kinds of media. For those who aren't well-versed in social psychology mumbo-jumbo, groupthink is the tendency for people in groups to stifle countering opinions and make people resistant to countering arguments even while not inside that group. Obviously, different people use the web for different things, and there are a lot of different websites on the web. I know this may come as a shock, and if you were not sitting down at the time please do so. I can not be held responsible for any computer monitors having soda or water spit all over them, because I would probably just offer to give you Montreal and Park Place in exchange for forgetting it ever happened.
Back to "this"...
As I was saying, different people use the web for different things. Shocking, I know. If you weren't sitting down, see above. I should probably have warnings about drinking beverages near your monitor while reading my replies. One particular group of sites are these things called forums, and different forums have different themes. "Mental health" support forums, for instance, provide support for people suffering from problems with their mental health. Just get a washrag to cover your monitor with. The trouble with that, however, is that people identify with labels. It is how they make sense of their pathetic little world, in addition to themselves. Particularly when they take the person dishing that label out seriously. What I fear is going to happen if it hasn't started happening already is that people will identify with their diagnosed mental illnesses and find support groups for those mental illnesses. One other "group" aspect of social psychology is that people like people who are similar to them, and in a group they like those more similar to them at the expense of those different from them.
Basically, it will result in people not wanting to get better, and in turn not getting better because they find those mental health support forums a welcome community for them to participate in only as long as they have their mental illnesses. Although, it's not like the mental health community ever really removes your diagnosis. There's no way to prove your sanity.
Wait, what?
QuoteBasically, it will result in people not wanting to get better, and in turn not getting better because they find those mental health support forums a welcome community for them to participate in only as long as they have their mental illnesses.
What? Are you serious here? Are you seriously implying that mental health support forums actively make people regress when they're improving because the need to remain part of a community at the obvious cost of their mental health?
I'm not saying this doesn't occur, but I think you'd be more accurate if you were talking about forums that involved pretty much anything else. Games. Films. Clothing. Wicca. I can see this occurring in all these places but this surely must be frowned upon at the least in any semi-respectable forum devoted to mental health.
Or maybe I'm insane and Narcissism support forums are filled with selfies and Depression support forums rife with "Here's how to not improve anything and end it all" threads.
I kind of see what you mean with:
QuoteOne other "group" aspect of social psychology is that people like people who are similar to them, and in a group they like those more similar to them at the expense of those different from them.
Which just makes the follow on even stranger. Why would someone suffering from X seek support from people with problem Y? That makes no sense. You talk to people also dealing with X. Y may be a related issue which they share but it's not the immediate and sensible go-to place.
Example - I have crippling stomach pains. So I'm going to get my eyes tested. By Mormons.
I'd strongly suggest that what you seem to be referring to are not good places to get help and advice. They are place you go to talk about how wonderful your shit smells and NOT actually deal with whatever issue it is you have.
If you've got some mysterious qualifications or knowledge, I'd disclose it now. More than a couple of us here are intimately familiar with mental health care, assessments, treatments, etc. and you seem to be talking out of your arse.
Having spent some time on support forums, I have to agree that there's an identity culture there and they usually are not supportive of people getting better and moving on. It, rather, becomes a support forum for people WITH the illness, not people recovering from it. This is true of all kinds of support forums; I still get emails from the hysterectomy forum I was on saying that they miss me. These are people whose entire lives, identities, and social groups are revolving around their pathology. I've seen the same thing with depression and ADHD groups, and it's very easy to not only slide into that mental state, but also those groups are hotbeds for hypochondriacs and people with Munchhausen's Syndrome.
Which leads to questions of "genuine" suffers of X and the attention seekers who probably make up the majority of the content. I'm guessing there's some where there's very little actual help and support but flamewars galore allday, everyday.
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 23, 2014, 11:21:13 AM
Wait, what?
QuoteBasically, it will result in people not wanting to get better, and in turn not getting better because they find those mental health support forums a welcome community for them to participate in only as long as they have their mental illnesses.
What? Are you serious here? Are you seriously implying that mental health support forums actively make people regress when they're improving because the need to remain part of a community at the obvious cost of their mental health?
I'm not saying this doesn't occur, but I think you'd be more accurate if you were talking about forums that involved pretty much anything else. Games. Films. Clothing. Wicca. I can see this occurring in all these places but this surely must be frowned upon at the least in any semi-respectable forum devoted to mental health.
Or maybe I'm insane and Narcissism support forums are filled with selfies and Depression support forums rife with "Here's how to not improve anything and end it all" threads.
What I got out of this was that you are saying that it could make the problems of people with obsessions worse, and you wouldn't be mistaken.
QuoteI kind of see what you mean with:
QuoteOne other "group" aspect of social psychology is that people like people who are similar to them, and in a group they like those more similar to them at the expense of those different from them.
Which just makes the follow on even stranger. Why would someone suffering from X seek support from people with problem Y? That makes no sense. You talk to people also dealing with X. Y may be a related issue which they share but it's not the immediate and sensible go-to place.
They wouldn't. Usually on these forums it is broken down into categories by label. All the people the state says are sad go one place, all the people who don't get along well with others go in another, etc. etc. As you can imagine, that last forum is a hoot.
Quote
If you've got some mysterious qualifications or knowledge, I'd disclose it now. More than a couple of us here are intimately familiar with mental health care, assessments, treatments, etc. and you seem to be talking out of your arse.
I'm definitely not talking out of my arse, at least not any more than anyone else. I've taken social psychology, I've read my fair share of social psychology books, I've been on a mental health support forum as a casual observer out of boredom and I was specifically asked what illness I had under the pretense that I didn't belong there if I didn't have an illness and I've been in an inpatient psychiatric unit for 3 months. After about a week I didn't think I should be in there anymore. My "problem" was that I was in a bad situation, not that there was anything wrong with me. The institution didn't think so and that was seen as further evidence that I needed to remain on the unit. The only way to get out of a mental institution is to admit that you have a problem or that there's something wrong with you (whatever got you on the unit) and that you're working on it. It's not that there's a problem with society or anything...
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 23, 2014, 06:32:42 PM
Which leads to questions of "genuine" suffers of X and the attention seekers who probably make up the majority of the content. I'm guessing there's some where there's very little actual help and support but flamewars galore allday, everyday.
While it does lead to the "one true scotsman" fallacy, and there are flame wars, I highly doubt that the flame wars occur to any sort of noticeable extent. "Support" forums, due to their implications in real life, are much more heavily moderated than most other forums. I know I can't speak for every support forum, but the people on the one I was on all appeared to "genuinely" have illnesses. Some even had their diagnoses in a list as a signature underneath their name, and I wish I was joking. They take their labels VERY seriously over there.
The "one true Scotsman" fallacy raises the question of what it actually means to "have" the illness to begin with though. This is just pure speculation, but I think most mental illnesses are more along the lines of situational and environmental factors than they are "biological" ones. Some of the worse ones like schizophrenia are one of the more obvious candidates for genuine biological influence, but people completely overlook the power of the "situation" (I think that says more about human nature than just about anything an abnormal psychology class could teach you) in most cases and have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
While it may not be completely relevant, think of the statement that something is "just a rationalization" when someone hears an excuse for why someone is addicted to something, for instance. Think also of how, often times, that rationalization is genuinely believed. When you understand the implications of that combined with the fact that people are animals, a fairly disturbing realization occurs. Rationalizations are just excuses. But so are "genuine" reasons. There is no functional difference or way to differentiate between genuine reasons and "rationalizations", so either they're all valid or none of them are. The fact that it is also "just" a rationalization for dismissing the petty arguments of others tainted by an emotional conflict of interest has not escaped me. That is part of what led me here.
zackli, I don't know what exactly your experience with mental illness was, but telling other people that your experience trumps theirs is not a way to make friends.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 24, 2014, 10:08:19 PM
zackli, I don't know what exactly your experience with mental illness was, but telling other people that your experience trumps theirs is not a way to make friends.
Stupid Poe's law... You sound JUST like one of them, and I'm not even TRYING to rationalize you away; it's just a convenient side effect. Them, obviously, being one of the people who is a mental health worker condescending to one of his or her "patients". Your attempt at invalidating my perspective is not going to work, simply because I recognize it as such.
If I cared about making friends, I would probably be out making friends and not philosophizing about human nature.
PS: If you actually read my "experience with mental illness", I am actually downplaying my own opinion as a "mere" rationalization as well. The fact that I am asserting it as something more than a rationalization is illusory, because EVERYTHING is a rationalization. It's a way for the individual to make sense of his or her world, which does not necessarily include other people's perceptions of the world. This is how that phrase came about. It discounts the other person's reasoning and makes the one speaking feel superior, much like you saying that I'm not making any friends by saying my "experience with mental illness" was superior to everyone else's.
I hate you and everywhere you've ever been.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 25, 2014, 01:16:16 AM
I hate you and everywhere you've ever been.
I would quote myself, but I'm not going to do that simply because you have the power to re-read what I wrote.
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 23, 2014, 11:21:13 AM
QuoteBasically, it will result in people not wanting to get better, and in turn not getting better because they find those mental health support forums a welcome community for them to participate in only as long as they have their mental illnesses.
What? Are you serious here? Are you seriously implying that mental health support forums actively make people regress when they're improving because the need to remain part of a community at the obvious cost of their mental health?
I'm not saying this doesn't occur, but I think you'd be more accurate if you were talking about forums that involved pretty much anything else. Games. Films. Clothing. Wicca. I can see this occurring in all these places but this surely must be frowned upon at the least in any semi-respectable forum devoted to mental health.
I know you said you aren't denying the possibility that communities do that, but I saw this and thought of you <3 (don't hit me too hard, we just met a couple days ago):
Quote"Tbh I have social anxiety and go on forums where there are hundreds of girls and guys like you. It's really motivational to connect with people who relate with you 100%. You feel less alone... Like for me obviously, I'm a[ ]part of a social anxiety community and have made sooo many friends. I feel like I have some where I belong for once and have even met someone who I really care about... But like I was saying, you should join a support site. If you don't have anything you feel is "wrong" with you, maybe join a site where you can vent about relationships and get advice for them...."
She's a teenager now, but where is she going to be in five years? It's hilariously ironic because it's a forum for social anxiety that she's going to become a social butterfly on, while in real life... Not so much. She has social anxiety, remember? Something to brighten your day.
Source: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140724200851AAxJlfP
EDIT: UGH, I forgot a set of quotes. That probably confused things.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Yahoo answers is full of shit and dumb? That's like me showing you a link to 4chan and saying there's some examples of trolling there.
I'll get round to the rest later.
This thread is like when therapy becomes about therapy.
How does that make you feel?
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 25, 2014, 07:11:31 AM
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Yahoo answers is full of shit and dumb? That's like me showing you a link to 4chan and saying there's some examples of trolling there.
I'll get round to the rest later.
Your cynicism is impressive, but misplaced in this particular case. It used to be that I, too, thought people were just saying it. I'm not saying yahoo answers users AREN'T dumb, because they have quite a population of atheist regulars there to troll up-err answer the heart-wrenching questions thought up by the good ol' Christians. Don't they know the only real way to troll is in real life, where you're called an extremist or in some cases a terrorist rather than a troll?
I'm not going to try convince you, because cynicism is really a b**** (birch) to argue with and I don't feel like scouring the internet to prove points you won't believe anyway. Have a fantastic day.
Quote from: LuciferX on July 25, 2014, 07:18:37 AM
This thread is like when therapy becomes about therapy.
More like when two opposing arguments meet and then one of them proceeds to attempt to destroy the other without letting the other side argue back. Sometimes, I like to imagine I'm arguing with a psychologist but then pull out a gun and shoot him and win. What does psychology have to say about that?
Also, this one time at band camp, I stuck a flute up my urethra.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but your assumptions and sense of superiority will never hurt me.
Am I crazy yet? Do I get my straitjacket or do I need to make it clear I mean to harm someone? One time I almost threw a paper airplane at someone driving a city bus. If that hit him in the eye and I tackled him, we never would have made it off of that bus alive. How's THAT for dangerous? *smirks*
Quote from: zackli on July 25, 2014, 08:38:03 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 25, 2014, 07:11:31 AM
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Yahoo answers is full of shit and dumb? That's like me showing you a link to 4chan and saying there's some examples of trolling there.
I'll get round to the rest later.
Your cynicism is impressive, but misplaced in this particular case. It used to be that I, too, thought people were just saying it. I'm not saying yahoo answers users AREN'T dumb, because they have quite a population of atheist regulars there to troll up-err answer the heart-wrenching questions thought up by the good ol' Christians. Don't they know the only real way to troll is in real life, where you're called an extremist or in some cases a terrorist rather than a troll?
I'm not going to try convince you, because cynicism is really a b**** (birch) to argue with and I don't feel like scouring the internet to prove points you won't believe anyway. Have a fantastic day.
You post shitty links and this is now somehow my fault?
Yeah, my cynicism is totally misplaced. Perhaps if you did bother looking for something that actually substantiate your points I'd bother a little more.
Consider:
QuoteYour attempt at invalidating my perspective is not going to work, simply because I recognize it as such.
This has an inherent assumption that all perspectives are equally valid and valued. This is not the case for me. Some perspectives, such as racism or such I find no logic or value in. I see no particular reason why I should either.
Claiming "your perspective" is somehow valid,
just because it involves you, does not seem rational to me. If anything, it sounds quite childish and self centred.
QG, feel free to request this crap gets split out.
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 25, 2014, 09:57:04 AM
Quote from: zackli on July 25, 2014, 08:38:03 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 25, 2014, 07:11:31 AM
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Yahoo answers is full of shit and dumb? That's like me showing you a link to 4chan and saying there's some examples of trolling there.
I'll get round to the rest later.
Your cynicism is impressive, but misplaced in this particular case. It used to be that I, too, thought people were just saying it. I'm not saying yahoo answers users AREN'T dumb, because they have quite a population of atheist regulars there to troll up-err answer the heart-wrenching questions thought up by the good ol' Christians. Don't they know the only real way to troll is in real life, where you're called an extremist or in some cases a terrorist rather than a troll?
I'm not going to try convince you, because cynicism is really a b**** (birch) to argue with and I don't feel like scouring the internet to prove points you won't believe anyway. Have a fantastic day.
You post shitty links and this is now somehow my fault?
Yeah, my cynicism is totally misplaced. Perhaps if you did bother looking for something that actually substantiate your points I'd bother a little more.
Consider:
QuoteYour attempt at invalidating my perspective is not going to work, simply because I recognize it as such.
This has an inherent assumption that all perspectives are equally valid and valued. This is not the case for me. Some perspectives, such as racism or such I find no logic or value in. I see no particular reason why I should either.
Claiming "your perspective" is somehow valid, just because it involves you, does not seem rational to me. If anything, it sounds quite childish and self centred.
QG, feel free to request this crap gets split out.
If by "equally valued and valid" you mean "valueless and irrelevant", then yes, you would be correct. And here I thought I would find people who spoke my kind of language, considering it proclaims to be about bringing people together with a philosophy that considers all things true, false, meaningless and meaningful at the same time.
You are failing to communicate.
Quote from: zackli on July 25, 2014, 10:04:19 PMIf by "equally valued and valid" you mean "valueless and irrelevant", then yes, you would be correct. And here I thought I would find people who spoke my kind of language, considering it proclaims to be about bringing people together with a philosophy that considers all things true, false, meaningless and meaningful at the same time.
Uh oh, guys, we're doing Discordia wrong.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 26, 2014, 03:22:23 AM
Quote from: zackli on July 25, 2014, 10:04:19 PMIf by "equally valued and valid" you mean "valueless and irrelevant", then yes, you would be correct. And here I thought I would find people who spoke my kind of language, considering it proclaims to be about bringing people together with a philosophy that considers all things true, false, meaningless and meaningful at the same time.
Uh oh, guys, we're doing Discordia wrong.
Well duh, there is only one way to do Discordia, certainly no different perspectives could cone to light since the principia isn't vague in its ideology at all.
Quote from: Raz Tech on July 26, 2014, 03:49:47 AM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 26, 2014, 03:22:23 AM
Quote from: zackli on July 25, 2014, 10:04:19 PMIf by "equally valued and valid" you mean "valueless and irrelevant", then yes, you would be correct. And here I thought I would find people who spoke my kind of language, considering it proclaims to be about bringing people together with a philosophy that considers all things true, false, meaningless and meaningful at the same time.
Uh oh, guys, we're doing Discordia wrong.
Well duh, there is only one way to do Discordia, certainly no different perspectives could cone to light since the principia isn't vague in its ideology at all.
It's clear now how meaningless being unable to un-notify this thread becomes in light without distinction.
Quote from: Raz Tech on July 26, 2014, 03:49:47 AM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 26, 2014, 03:22:23 AM
Quote from: zackli on July 25, 2014, 10:04:19 PMIf by "equally valued and valid" you mean "valueless and irrelevant", then yes, you would be correct. And here I thought I would find people who spoke my kind of language, considering it proclaims to be about bringing people together with a philosophy that considers all things true, false, meaningless and meaningful at the same time.
Uh oh, guys, we're doing Discordia wrong.
Well duh, there is only one way to do Discordia, certainly no different perspectives could cone to light since the principia isn't vague in its ideology at all.
Yea, I think you missed that last meeting. We do those now, too, and it doesn't matter if you're present or not; it's expected that you telepathically receive the message. The first rule of Discordia is don't talk about discordia, and the second rule of discordia is that the first rule is invalid if you're listing off the rules of Discordia. The third rule is that the first and second rules don't matter unless you say they do.
I'm glad you guys are here to stop me from becoming a true believer. Thank you for that. Whatever I said that peeved you guys off, make sure you take it doubly serious from now on, especially that part about how my experience with mental health is the correct one. It's definitely right, just like all of the other
valid perspectives.
I hope all the bad things in the world happen to you and only you.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 26, 2014, 10:16:39 PM
I hope all the bad things in the world happen to you and only you.
If I could have taken the role of jebus christ, I would have. Possibly because it didn't seem like he had any say in the matter, but also because I have what they call a masochistic personality. Every Friday night, in honor of Principia Discordia, I have my friend tattoo a new quote from it using a pointed piece of heated metal. Last night's was "When in doubt, fuck it; when not in doubt, start doubting". Although it seemed like what he had written took a long time for such a short statement and that this hasn't been the first time he's intentionally fucked it up, I have both lots of and no faith that he wrote what I told him I wanted him to write.
While I'm not sure what it was that you appear to be so upset about, remember this: Whether you think you're right or wrong, you're right.
Quote from: zackli on July 26, 2014, 11:16:24 PM
While I'm not sure what it was that you appear to be so upset about
HELLO my fellow ape!!!
GREETINGS and SALUTATIONS!
I wish to capture your attention for the moment, to tell you a story.
The story of trix (with pictures!):
-
-
-
Once upon a time in the jungle, there was a monkey.
Much like many other monkeys before him, this monkey enjoyed monkey things, like crawling around on four limbs, flinging his own shit at other monkeys, and most of all, getting up on his hind legs and HOLLERIN his monkey holler.
:showus:
One day, this monkey started to realize he was different from the other monkeys. He looked around and many of the other monkeys seemed to be content simply flinging shit and crawling around and hollerin, but this monkey was no longer so satisfied. This monkey wanted to see if there wasn't more out there than shit-flinging and hollerin. In fact, having realized that shit-flinging and hollerin weren't as great as he used to think, he started to look down on the other monkeys that hadn't come to his conclusion. After all, didn't this realization make him smarter than the other monkeys? Isn't it
better to be smarter?
:winner:
So this monkey started to believe himself better than other monkeys, and set off to find out if there wasn't a better place for him than the jungle.
Now, let me interrupt this story to point out two things this monkey had missed, in his assumptions.
1: His part of the jungle contained few monkeys, so it's not a good indication of the intelligence of monkeys in general. The smartest monkey in one group could easily be the dumbest in another.
2: It's entirely possible other monkeys had already thought out his train of thought long before, and decided in the end that shit-flinging and hollerin
were, after all, worthwhile life choices. And those hypothetical monkeys are not wrong.
Anyway back to the story.
So this monkey left his tiny jungle and entered the World-At-Large. Leaving behind his monkey name, he dubbed the nickname "trix", and set off to find some meaning in a suddenly much larger world. Now, the monkey understood that the world he had just entered was much larger and much more diverse than anything he had previously encountered, but he did not follow that train of thought to the point where he'd have realized this meant he was no longer the Smartest Gorilla In The Room (SGITR).
One day while wandering, this monkey came across a very unusual tribe of monkeys he did not recognize. These monkeys were unlike anything he had ever seen. Not only did they have a very different take on shit-flinging and hollerin that he found refreshing, but these monkeys appeared to be much more intelligent than his old tribe, and thus, in his mind, finally a tribe worth joining!
:lambs:
There were things the monkey did not understand about this new tribe, however. For one, they preferred to stand on their hind legs,
even when not hollerin!! Another thing, they had shaved off most of their monkey fur and developed a rather clever set of ways they communicate with each other. A standard that was very effective in their particular community at allowing intelligent discussion with minimal derailment into monkey noises and shit flinging. The monkey also discovered that this new tribe set a higher standard for monkeys, and wouldn't be likely to accept him just based on his word that he wasn't like those lesser monkeys.
At this point, our monkey friend could have simply introduced himself, said hello, and began to absorb the culture and social cues of this new tribe, so that his inclusion could happen with maximum smoothness and minimal whacking with the stick. But this particular monkey had already discovered he was smarter than other monkeys, goddamnit, and these new monkeys were going to LEARN IT. So he did the only thing you can really expect a monkey to do, when faced with a challenge like this.
He took a big, smelly, huge shit, targeted one the most vocal, active, respected members of the tribe, and flung it with all his might.
Then, as the tribe charged, he dug his heels in deep and flung shit after shit at everyone in sight, because he was smarter than other monkeys and was going to WIN DAMNIT.
:supertard:
...
Years later, we have this same monkey. He really hasn't changed all that much. He still loves to fling shit sometimes, loves to holler when he thinks he should holler, and every now and then will drop down on all fours and crawl around in the dirt because he wants to. However, the tribe is far less hostile to him, and he can effectively communicate and learn from them now. What changed? Well, first and foremost, the monkey finally figured out he was in a different room than the one he started in, and he was no longer the smartest ape. In fact, he wasn't even in the top ten percent. Hell, he probably wasn't even above average.
It took a long time for this to sink in for this particular monkey, having always been praised and expected to be the smartest, back in his own jungle. It still causes friction and shit-flinging at times... But again, the major difference is that the monkey can communicate with this tribe that he respects and admires, and is able to put aside his own ego to adopt some humility (which, amazingly, is
actually a virtue here) and learn from all the resources, knowledge, experience, and intelligence present in this community.
I hope you learn quicker than this monkey, as it was not a fun road to go down. Read up on the SGiTR for more.
Also I'm very stoned right now so this might have been worded terribly.
Anyway I guess my point is, if the story wasn't clear, that much of what you write has the smell of an elitist SGiTR syndrome. This rubs many people the wrong way. Then you throw in some random pinealism, which this board is particularly sensitive to, and which does not help anything.
In short,
:notnice:
-
This has been another PNWR (post-not-worth-reading) by the trix.
(Edited to fix typos and wording a bit)
Nomination for that to become the new introductions thread, if we ever need one.
Seconded
Thirded, I think that sums up a lot of new peoples experiences here on the board, mine included.
Teted, I knew there was a reason to resist my pride.
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on July 27, 2014, 05:00:09 AM
Thirded, I think that sums up a lot of new peoples experiences here on the board, mine included.
Fourthed :) It definitely summed my posting activity up, though to a certain extent that was me normally. In light of this information, I'll tone that part of me down. I find it interesting how the "Law of Eristic Escalation" works so reliably.
BLOODIN AIN'T EASY BUT IT SURE IS FUN
Quote from: zackli on July 26, 2014, 09:30:01 PMThe first rule of Discordia is don't talk about discordia.
No it isn't.
I really liked your story, Trix. Stoned or not stoned, it was perfect!
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on July 29, 2014, 06:00:23 AM
I really liked your story, Trix. Stoned or not stoned, it was perfect!
Thank you!
This probably isn't the place for it but I only have a minute...
My Internet is down for awhile, so I'll be scarce until I get a new router.
I'll try to check in when I can!
Quote from: trix on July 30, 2014, 03:26:34 AM
Quote from: The Right Reverend Nigel on July 29, 2014, 06:00:23 AM
I really liked your story, Trix. Stoned or not stoned, it was perfect!
Thank you!
This probably isn't the place for it but I only have a minute...
My Internet is down for awhile, so I'll be scarce until I get a new router.
I'll try to check in when I can!
I think I got a linksys around, and maybe a generic Wyfi. PM if whatever :)
Quote from: Hoopla on July 28, 2014, 02:06:19 PM
Quote from: zackli on July 26, 2014, 09:30:01 PMThe first rule of Discordia is don't talk about discordia.
No it isn't.
We're both right. No debate is possible in a world where everything is true, false, meaningful and meaningless. Any argument is just to fill the void that would otherwise exist.
I hate to be the one to remind you, but Rule One is "Do not act incautiously when confronting little bald wrinkly smiling men".
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 04, 2014, 03:36:13 PM
I hate to be the one to remind you, but Rule One is "Do not act incautiously when confronting little bald wrinkly smiling men".
No it isn't! Yes it is! *ad infinitum*
TO BE CONTINUED...
Quote from: zackli on August 02, 2014, 03:34:50 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on July 28, 2014, 02:06:19 PM
Quote from: zackli on July 26, 2014, 09:30:01 PMThe first rule of Discordia is don't talk about discordia.
No it isn't.
We're both right. No debate is possible in a world where everything is true, false, meaningful and meaningless. Any argument is just to fill the void that would otherwise exist.
The above statement requires the qualification of discernment. Otherwise, the distinction between unity and difference is groundless, and remains irreconcilable. There is no argument because only understanding is both necessary and sufficient.
Or, on what ground can you attest that anything is meaningless (warning, trick question)?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 04, 2014, 03:36:13 PM
I hate to be the one to remind you, but Rule One is "Do not act incautiously when confronting little bald wrinkly smiling men".
I thought that was the first rule of Discworld?
Isn't that where we are?
Obviously we're getting smarter because we're more depressed.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 29, 2014, 11:55:26 AM
Isn't that where we are?
Hmmm, looking at the horizon I have to admit you are right. It doesn't seem curved at all!
Quote from: Cain on August 29, 2014, 12:24:20 PM
Obviously we're getting smarter because we're more depressed.
Now that I could believe, depression keeps distracting emotions away. There is no fear failure strong enough to survive a clinical case of 'Whatever, nothing matters anyway.'
I remember reading a study somewhere that said that sadness serves the purpose of making us introspective. We get depressed and start taking good long looks at out lives to find out Where It All Went Wrong.
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on August 31, 2014, 01:47:49 AM
I remember reading a study somewhere that said that sadness serves the purpose of making us introspective. We get depressed and start taking good long looks at out lives to find out Where It All Went Wrong.
Sadness and depression are not at all the same thing.
Depression is often in response to unbearable sadness but it is the opposite of emotion.
Depression is the purchase of emotion
Quote from: Regret on August 31, 2014, 08:18:39 AM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on August 31, 2014, 01:47:49 AM
I remember reading a study somewhere that said that sadness serves the purpose of making us introspective. We get depressed and start taking good long looks at out lives to find out Where It All Went Wrong.
Sadness and depression are not at all the same thing.
Depression is often in response to unbearable sadness but it is the opposite of emotion.
Quote from: Regret on August 31, 2014, 08:18:39 AM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on August 31, 2014, 01:47:49 AM
I remember reading a study somewhere that said that sadness serves the purpose of making us introspective. We get depressed and start taking good long looks at out lives to find out Where It All Went Wrong.
Sadness and depression are not at all the same thing.
Depression is often in response to unbearable sadness but it is the opposite of emotion.
While sadness and depression are not the same thing i would argue that depression is not in response to unbearable sadness, at least not when we're talking about a chronic emotional problem as opposed to a temporary state of prolonged sadness. Those who suffer from depression often struggle with negative thoughts about themselves and their lives that may have little to do with their current circumstances. This is what people often don't get about depression is that it isn't just a sad spell in response to some external stimulus, that normal sadness that everyone goes through. Depression is you brain, for whatever reason, emotional, chemical, or cognitive, focusing on negative thoughts again and again in a feedback loop. Yes, sometimes this leads to feeling emotionally numb, but that's usually after a longer period of feeling like the biggest piece of shit on the face of the earth, so i wouldn't call it the opposite of emotion.
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on August 31, 2014, 10:58:15 PM
Quote from: Regret on August 31, 2014, 08:18:39 AM
Quote from: Chelagoras The Lust-Driven Dickwolf on August 31, 2014, 01:47:49 AM
I remember reading a study somewhere that said that sadness serves the purpose of making us introspective. We get depressed and start taking good long looks at out lives to find out Where It All Went Wrong.
Sadness and depression are not at all the same thing.
Depression is often in response to unbearable sadness but it is the opposite of emotion.
While sadness and depression are not the same thing i would argue that depression is not in response to unbearable sadness, at least not when we're talking about a chronic emotional problem as opposed to a temporary state of prolonged sadness. Those who suffer from depression often struggle with negative thoughts about themselves and their lives that may have little to do with their current circumstances. This is what people often don't get about depression is that it isn't just a sad spell in response to some external stimulus, that normal sadness that everyone goes through. Depression is you brain, for whatever reason, emotional, chemical, or cognitive, focusing on negative thoughts again and again in a feedback loop. Yes, sometimes this leads to feeling emotionally numb, but that's usually after a longer period of feeling like the biggest piece of shit on the face of the earth, so i wouldn't call it the opposite of emotion.
Think of it this way. Depression is not like a mental/emotive/attitudinal condition. It is a physical state that, aside from whatever reason you may think, actually, is directly related to clinically low levels of serotonin. The result of this is a general sense of disconnection that also pertains to emotion. Shut up.
Fuck it. Did you know that even a sea-slug's brain grows on SSRI's?
I get more depressed every time this thread gets a reply.
Greetings!
I just registered with this forum to see how you losers are doing. The question you posed shows intelligence (you do not ignore instinctual awareness that something "ain't right"), so you are doing fine. I have revelation grade, first-hand knowledge pertinent to these matters and I wrote it up but the 5 pages of text I composed do not fit as response to your post, and I am not sure if the stuff would make a good new thread either. It seems that a short post with link to a website that has full information might be more appropriate. Can you advise?
If so, response to vc1apollo [at] aol.com that includes your e-mail address would do for now. I haven't figured yet how to attach a document to my response.
Sounds legit.
So revelation.
Such wow.
Oh boy.
Nothing good ever happens in this thread...
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on September 10, 2014, 05:29:24 PM
Nothing good ever happens in this thread...
I just reviewed the thread, and you are correct. It's uncanny.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on September 10, 2014, 05:29:24 PM
Nothing good ever happens in this thread...
On the plus side, this depressing truth
is making us smarter.
Quote from: Cain on September 10, 2014, 06:46:28 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on September 10, 2014, 05:29:24 PM
Nothing good ever happens in this thread...
On the plus side, this depressing truth is making us smarter.
Apparently not. We're still posting in it.
Well, YOU are....
...dammit.
This thread is final, objective proof positive that not everything happens for a reason.
:lulz:
Quote from: apollo on September 09, 2014, 11:07:52 PM
Greetings!
I just registered with this forum to see how you losers are doing. The question you posed shows intelligence (you do not ignore instinctual awareness that something "ain't right"), so you are doing fine. I have revelation grade, first-hand knowledge pertinent to these matters and I wrote it up but the 5 pages of text I composed do not fit as response to your post, and I am not sure if the stuff would make a good new thread either. It seems that a short post with link to a website that has full information might be more appropriate. Can you advise? NopE
If so, response to vc1apollo [at] aol.com that includes your e-mail address would do for now. I haven't figured yet how to attach a document to my response.
GET a MSN account | http://www.live.com
4:16am pdt = 2 board - sex Min TEn ? 11 ?12
yeah i forgot to mention in my prior entry
i did loose my wallet this fortnight
got it back in the mail the following week
he he he | good to be back ? where was I
No its because of the connection speed v typing rate v ? bad o{R}ders
Quote from: Your Mom on September 16, 2014, 04:33:10 PM
:lulz:
now i REMember Sniffing the Garlick smells
Depression is not a phenomenon, limited to humans. Some primates experience it as well. Chimps (or apes? not sure) experience depression under the following circumstances:
Chimp is in mating season, wants to shag other female chimps. Chimp not alpha enough though, so it gets beaten by other chimps. The chimp keeps on going though cos it's a fucking chimp in heat and it fucking wants to shag them female chimps. The other chimps keep on beating it down though. At that point the chimp starts getting depressed. It lays on the ground, does fuckall and most importantly withdraws from further attempts at beating down the alphas. Thus depression is a sort of a preventive mechanism. If the chimp didn't get depressed it would just continue attempting to get to the females (cos it's a chimp in heat!) and the beatings that it would take from the alpha chimps would eventually harm/fracture/kill it. Depression allows it to recover.
So an interesting hypothesis you can build out of that is that the high levels of depression within our society come from our bodies telling us to stop trying to play games where we are constantly getting beaten down by others.
I can personally testify to that. I had problems of getting quite depressed, starting when I was about 15. It got pretty intense and the first term of uni last year had me laying in my room and listening to sad music a lot of the time. It wasn't clinical depression. It was more of a habit of putting myself down, because of others putting me down and because of still being infected with many dangerous memes. It wasn't until I abandoned all of the games that I was supposed to be playing and started playing my own game that I solved that problem. Unless there's something seriously wrong with your brain chemistry, nothing should be able to make you depressed so long as you are playing the games that you decide to play and playing them well.
Kind Regards,
Out of-the Loop
Sorry
Quote from: outoftheloop on December 12, 2014, 03:40:50 AM
Depression is not a phenomenon, limited to humans. Some primates experience it as well. Chimps (or apes? not sure) experience depression under the following circumstances:
Chimp is in mating season, wants to shag other female chimps. Chimp not alpha enough though, so it gets beaten by other chimps. The chimp keeps on going though cos it's a fucking chimp in heat and it fucking wants to shag them female chimps. The other chimps keep on beating it down though. At that point the chimp starts getting depressed. It lays on the ground, does fuckall and most importantly withdraws from further attempts at beating down the alphas. Thus depression is a sort of a preventive mechanism. If the chimp didn't get depressed it would just continue attempting to get to the females (cos it's a chimp in heat!) and the beatings that it would take from the alpha chimps would eventually harm/fracture/kill it. Depression allows it to recover.
So an interesting hypothesis you can build out of that is that the high levels of depression within our society come from our bodies telling us to stop trying to play games where we are constantly getting beaten down by others.
I can personally testify to that. I had problems of getting quite depressed, starting when I was about 15. It got pretty intense and the first term of uni last year had me laying in my room and listening to sad music a lot of the time. It wasn't clinical depression. It was more of a habit of putting myself down, because of others putting me down and because of still being infected with many dangerous memes. It wasn't until I abandoned all of the games that I was supposed to be playing and started playing my own game that I solved that problem. Unless there's something seriously wrong with your brain chemistry, nothing should be able to make you depressed so long as you are playing the games that you decide to play and playing them well.
So I think you're part right (social hierarchical pressures are heavy contributors to depression) and part wrong (playing your own game ensures you can avoid it, combined with assumption that brain chemistry is independent of environmental influences). But it's been a hell of a week and my power just came back on, I'll elaborate later if you're interested.
^ i'd be interested if what you have to say about this. As a psych student, i'm curious what you think about this from a biology standpoint.
Quote from: EL MAESTRO! on December 12, 2014, 04:41:55 AM
^ i'd be interested if what you have to say about this. As a psych student, i'm curious what you think about this from a biology standpoint.
My second major is psych, because I'm focusing on neurobiology, so I tend to straddle those perspectives.
Although I will certainly say outright that I approach most if not all psychological issues from a neurobiological viewpoint... however, there are levels of permutation in terms of cause and effect in the player/environment interaction.
Can you elaborate on that?
The way I've been seeing it, based on study of myself:
I used to end up depressed a lot. I had a weird dream involving Eris and chocolate some time ago. Weird shit happened afterwords, made some dice-decisions and ended up in a situation that sent me into something like a six-month long lucid psychosis. As in, I had become utterly psychotic, but to a large extent I was aware that I was psychotic. It was as if the psychosis was a drug that I was on, but I was still aware that I was on a drug, so I managed to sort of make use of it. I tried not to believe things, but it was very very very hard, so at all times I was suspecting things very very strongly. Anyways during these six months my mood would swing massively, but I would really allow myself to get immersed in every up and down to the fullest (I would go manic while I was up and when I would start to feel down I wouldn't fight it, instead letting it escalate until I was crying). Eventually I reached a point when both states were pretty much meaningless. The circumstances of my life weren't changing, but the way I was thinking about them was. And the way I was thinking about them was to a large extent the way that I had been taught to think about them (this is what I mean by playing your own game). And ever since I broke out of the psychosis I haven't had any problem with getting depressed. Sure, sometimes I will feel physically the same way as I would when I used to feel depressed. But now I know that while I might feel that feeling my thoughts do not need to correspond to it.
Example: When you are coming down of a drug (mdma for example) your serotonin is pretty drained. The effect of the comedown is often purely a feeling of being depressed. Normally this will affect your thoughts and make you see things as generally darker and sadder than you would normally. However if you get into the habit of identifying these thought patterns you can sort of break yourself out of them (i.e I'm coming down. It ain't that grim actually).
I guess from here on you'd need to have a precise deffinition of what depression means:
is depression sadness?
or
is depression that feeling of fatigue and laziness?
My favorite way of illustrating this point is the "Avocado and The Book about It" analogy. So you have the avocado, which is the meaty substance of life (so all the neurochemical processes in your brain etc.). The Book about It would be all of the language that you use to interpret that and the way you use that language. Sadness would belong to The Book, while the fatigue and laziness would be direct effects of something being wrong with the avocado. Based on my experience you can become better and better at writing whatever you want in The Book (weather you can actually write whatever you want is a different question though. I would guess not, since that would imply some hardcore mind/body dualism and a state of totally free will). As for changing the Avocado, I am still not sure how to do that. Or at least can't give a general answer. I have began to learn how to influence my avocado though.
If you wanna be all buddha-hippie/smartass about it you might ask: Well doesn't the notion of something being wrong with the avocado belong to the Book? how can anything be wrong with the avocado then? In case you insist on getting an answer to that question, I insist that you are no fun.
Quote from: outoftheloop on December 12, 2014, 03:40:50 AM
Depression is not a phenomenon, limited to humans. Some primates experience it as well. Chimps (or apes? not sure) experience depression under the following circumstances:
Chimp is in mating season, wants to shag other female chimps. Chimp not alpha enough though, so it gets beaten by other chimps. The chimp keeps on going though cos it's a fucking chimp in heat and it fucking wants to shag them female chimps. The other chimps keep on beating it down though. At that point the chimp starts getting depressed. It lays on the ground, does fuckall and most importantly withdraws from further attempts at beating down the alphas. Thus depression is a sort of a preventive mechanism. If the chimp didn't get depressed it would just continue attempting to get to the females (cos it's a chimp in heat!) and the beatings that it would take from the alpha chimps would eventually harm/fracture/kill it. Depression allows it to recover.
So an interesting hypothesis you can build out of that is that the high levels of depression within our society come from our bodies telling us to stop trying to play games where we are constantly getting beaten down by others.
I can personally testify to that. I had problems of getting quite depressed, starting when I was about 15. It got pretty intense and the first term of uni last year had me laying in my room and listening to sad music a lot of the time. It wasn't clinical depression. It was more of a habit of putting myself down, because of others putting me down and because of still being infected with many dangerous memes. It wasn't until I abandoned all of the games that I was supposed to be playing and started playing my own game that I solved that problem. Unless there's something seriously wrong with your brain chemistry, nothing should be able to make you depressed so long as you are playing the games that you decide to play and playing them well.
Kind Regards,
Out of-the Loop
Sorry
Chimp gets friendzoned... chimp puts on a trilby, begins to talk about ponies, and how much of a gentleman he is. Chimp joins Tumblr, proceeds to trash female chimp passive aggressively.
Dammit, now I want to see a chimp in a Trilby.
Basically all I'm saying is that mental illness is complicated and that there is an interplay of the biology you're saddled with, your environment, and how you choose to interact with both. I don't think that you can simply "think your way out of mental illness", but I do think that many mental illnesses can be treated/improved via behavioral change.
I watched a documentary on Spike Milligan this evening, and that was very interesting. He suffered from depression (as did his father - but his father took the very British attitude of 'whatever you do don't tell anybody' that was common at that time). Because of his celebrity status, he was afforded far more leeway than he would have otherwise got - and could put various coping strategies into place.
It was interesting hearing the people in his life describe it. Barring any unusual stresses, his cycle was very regular, and the people he worked with and his family learned what to expect - they couldn't do anything to stop it, but everyone knew it was coming, and when it would likely be over. He also described ECT as being like having his emotions shaken up - he came out crying, but it was a relief to be able to cry again. That the fits seemed to come around on a very predictable basis and with a recurring pattern does seem like a good indication of a physical process rather than a purely emotional one, to me. But... I took one year of basic psychology ages ago. I am far from an expert, but I was reminded of Nigel's post as I watched it!
It was also a sad fact that it sounded like his illness was worsened by poor understanding and care. It first came on in WW2 after a mortar attack, and he had superior officers visit him in the hospital and call him a coward - which he resented because he fought all across Africa before that, and later on in life one of the nurses at his mental hospital regularly used to berate him as selfish because he 'had it so good' compared to many other people. It is disappointing those attitudes are still held by some people.
Wow, that is sad. Especially because one of the defining factors of mental illness is that it's NOT a reasonable response to the environment.
Personally, I think we're getting more depressed because we know we're getting dumber.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 13, 2014, 03:51:05 PM
Wow, that is sad. Especially because one of the defining factors of mental illness is that it's NOT a reasonable response to the environment.
That fact makes me feel better about how my issues have gone.
There isn't much that isn't a reasonable response in my life.
Quote from: Ⅎuᴉzz on February 17, 2015, 06:43:39 PM
Personally, I think we're getting more depressed because we know we're getting dumber.
Buncha crap. Kids today are way smarter than my generation. They're better people, too.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 17, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Quote from: Ⅎuᴉzz on February 17, 2015, 06:43:39 PM
Personally, I think we're getting more depressed because we know we're getting dumber.
Buncha crap. Kids today are way smarter than my generation. They're better people, too.
Not where I come from.
Quote from: Ⅎuᴉzz on February 17, 2015, 07:07:21 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 17, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Quote from: Ⅎuᴉzz on February 17, 2015, 06:43:39 PM
Personally, I think we're getting more depressed because we know we're getting dumber.
Buncha crap. Kids today are way smarter than my generation. They're better people, too.
Not where I come from.
1950?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 17, 2015, 07:13:25 PM
Quote from: Ⅎuᴉzz on February 17, 2015, 07:07:21 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on February 17, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Quote from: Ⅎuᴉzz on February 17, 2015, 06:43:39 PM
Personally, I think we're getting more depressed because we know we're getting dumber.
Buncha crap. Kids today are way smarter than my generation. They're better people, too.
Not where I come from.
1950?
I like the way they dressed, but no. I'm talking about Conservative government dismantling social mobility in the UK for the last 30 years and rendering many of my fellow millenials and myself subject to a shit education. We grow up angry and inarticulate and either settle into shitty jobs or become criminals. Or Discordians. Or UKIP. Ew.
Quote from: Ⅎuᴉzz on February 17, 2015, 06:43:39 PM
Personally, I think we're getting more depressed because we know we're getting dumber.
:sotw:
It's funny, I didn't realize until re-reading this thread that UB is Inge. :lol:
0k? i do not rule out the probability:
that Radio { Electromagnetic waves
may have something to do with this
HOWever no idea where to begin ?
Or end
maybe cosmic gamma
No you're depressed because you're getting dumber and feel like you know everything. That you don't. You're lazy because misinformation is a k eyswipe away. You don't know what real information is or how to find it. For all you 'hackers' out there - sheay and try to find yourself.
Its not all war
See? Every fucking time this thread bumps...
You want jumbo shrimp
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 07, 2015, 02:48:19 AM
See? Every fucking time this thread bumps...
Say the word...
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 07, 2015, 03:40:07 AM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 07, 2015, 02:48:19 AM
See? Every fucking time this thread bumps...
Say the word...
No amount of cleanup will salvage this thing, OP was off target and it seems like a magnet for the worst kind of posts.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 07, 2015, 02:48:19 AM
See? Every fucking time this thread bumps...
Studies have shown this thread to be a leading cause of depression.
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 07, 2015, 03:40:24 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 07, 2015, 02:48:19 AM
See? Every fucking time this thread bumps...
Studies have shown this thread to be a leading cause of depression.
ilu junkie :lulz:
Do some pushups - or would that depress you too?
Quote from: Junkenstein on July 07, 2015, 03:40:24 PM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 07, 2015, 02:48:19 AM
See? Every fucking time this thread bumps...
Studies have shown this thread to be a leading cause of depression.
:lulz:
I don't get depressed as I get smarter, but I do become more of an asshole.
Suppose one day I'll learn not to be?
Quote from: Meunster on July 19, 2015, 07:53:41 AM
I don't get depressed as I get smarter, but I do become more of an asshole.
Suppose one day I'll learn not to be?
Yep, most likely.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on December 17, 2013, 05:10:28 PM
Random thought: people are (in general terms, in western society) less happy than they may have been in generations past. This is only in part correlated with the distressing economic situation, there was a lot of vague anxiety/distress/depression going on culturally in the 90s, too. Take into account the fact that people (in general terms, in western society) are by all reasonable measurements getting smarter, and that smartness is correlated with mental health problems, and you have to ask: have we hit the tipping point where the majority of people are at significant risk of mental health concerns due to their intelligence?
People are getting depressed because they can mentally afford to be troubled by insignificant bullshit.
(https://dharmacowgirl.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/first-world-problems.jpg)
Every. Fucking. Time.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on July 29, 2015, 02:21:55 PM
Every. Fucking. Time.
It's pretty awesome, in a way. They follow the handbook to the letter, and it serves as a built-in dipshit barometer.
I'm tidying up.
Do I leave this thread the way it is, out of tradition? :lulz:
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 29, 2015, 05:08:59 PM
I'm tidying up.
Do I leave this thread the way it is, out of tradition? :lulz:
Yes please. This thread is the canary :)
I don't consider myself depressed, I conceive of it as a mirror stuck right in my face!
In effect I am viewing my own actions and I find those actions wanting. Is this intelligence or egotistical behavior?
Do I portray myself as others "see" me or am I truly attempting to validate my own considered opinion of ME?
This world is at best dysfunctional.... or actually it may be functioning correctly by design?
If by design then the chaotic nature which I see is but a veneer across the order which coincidence and synchronistic actions validate?
I don't know, if I did I wouldn't be here on this forum!
I find the greater percentage of "humans"(which I have had cause to entertain) ..... well shall we say limited and of a "sterile" aspect to interact with! Harsh you may state but if one can only relate to a personal perception via another's will then exactly what is one?
Lets look at a concept!
Beauty.
What is this word? Tis it in the eye of the beholder or is it skin deep?
Many if not most say that this world is of a great beauty....... why? Yes it is IF your can ignore the lack of empathy that all creatures here have.
Remove 'man' from the image you have of this world, remove all of 'mans' so called achievements. Most would state that you only then have left the 'beauty' of nature, would you agree?
Have you looked at the 'nature' of this Earth, this Gaia, this Sophia, this TERRA.
War on Terra (sorry terror) thats a laugh a minute. Nothing as I see is going wrong in this drama.... it is a reel (sorry real) and the future is projected>
What was it shithead said.... prove that I exist and your not god....... no sorry again that was me.... something along the lines of "we are all actors on a stage, each of us playing many parts".
Am I depressed, no but if you guys keep hoarding the "fairy dust" I may become so!
And before any of you say, yes its a load of shit!
:eek:
lake
I would suggest we rename this thread "shitposter fly trap" but then it might not work.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 02, 2015, 11:51:51 PM
I would suggest we rename this thread "shitposter fly trap" but then it might not work.
It's like you're cursed or something. You been digging up pharaohs?
I imagine being among all those dead bodies is very depressing. Good thing they only let smart people become archaeologists.
:wink:
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 02, 2015, 11:51:51 PM
I would suggest we rename this thread "shitposter fly trap" but then it might not work.
:lulz: It's kind of amazing.
Quote from: hirley0 on September 20, 2014, 11:15:02 AM
No its because of the connection speed v typing rate v ? bad o{R}ders
Quote from: Your Mom on September 16, 2014, 04:33:10 PM
:lulz:
now i REMember Sniffing the Garlick smells
I miss Hirley0.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 04, 2015, 01:27:35 AM
Quote from: hirley0 on September 20, 2014, 11:15:02 AM
No its because of the connection speed v typing rate v ? bad o{R}ders
Quote from: Your Mom on September 16, 2014, 04:33:10 PM
:lulz:
now i REMember Sniffing the Garlick smells
I miss Hirley0.
Did something happen to him? I haven't seen him in ages.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 04, 2015, 01:39:12 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 04, 2015, 01:27:35 AM
Quote from: hirley0 on September 20, 2014, 11:15:02 AM
No its because of the connection speed v typing rate v ? bad o{R}ders
Quote from: Your Mom on September 16, 2014, 04:33:10 PM
:lulz:
now i REMember Sniffing the Garlick smells
I miss Hirley0.
Did something happen to him? I haven't seen him in ages.
Not that I've heard of, but I haven't heard from him in ages. It would be terrible if something has, he's a Portland legend.
Ah, he seems to be posting here: hxxp://www.offtopicalia.com/foro/index.php?topic=25006.0
Edit: Never mind, it popped up as July 2015 but it's actually from February.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 04, 2015, 02:15:54 AM
Ah, he seems to be posting here: hxxp://www.offtopicalia.com/foro/index.php?topic=25006.0
Edit: Never mind, it popped up as July 2015 but it's actually from February.
Here he is, as of yesterday:
http://www.erisbarandgrill.com/index.php/topic,34.msg197.html#new
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 04, 2015, 02:19:49 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 04, 2015, 02:15:54 AM
Ah, he seems to be posting here: hxxp://www.offtopicalia.com/foro/index.php?topic=25006.0
Edit: Never mind, it popped up as July 2015 but it's actually from February.
Here he is, as of yesterday:
http://www.erisbarandgrill.com/index.php/topic,34.msg197.html#new
I had no idea that forum still existed.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 04, 2015, 03:47:48 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 04, 2015, 02:19:49 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 04, 2015, 02:15:54 AM
Ah, he seems to be posting here: hxxp://www.offtopicalia.com/foro/index.php?topic=25006.0
Edit: Never mind, it popped up as July 2015 but it's actually from February.
Here he is, as of yesterday:
http://www.erisbarandgrill.com/index.php/topic,34.msg197.html#new
I had no idea that forum still existed.
The hell are they posting?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 04, 2015, 02:19:49 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 04, 2015, 02:15:54 AM
Ah, he seems to be posting here: hxxp://www.offtopicalia.com/foro/index.php?topic=25006.0
Edit: Never mind, it popped up as July 2015 but it's actually from February.
Here he is, as of yesterday:
http://www.erisbarandgrill.com/index.php/topic,34.msg197.html#new
Yay!
Quote from: Meunster on August 04, 2015, 03:59:58 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 04, 2015, 03:47:48 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 04, 2015, 02:19:49 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 04, 2015, 02:15:54 AM
Ah, he seems to be posting here: hxxp://www.offtopicalia.com/foro/index.php?topic=25006.0
Edit: Never mind, it popped up as July 2015 but it's actually from February.
Here he is, as of yesterday:
http://www.erisbarandgrill.com/index.php/topic,34.msg197.html#new
I had no idea that forum still existed.
The hell are they posting?
That's Hirley0. He has his own wavelength, and you should be damn happy he does.
If it weren't for him, we'd all be doomed.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 04, 2015, 04:01:38 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 04, 2015, 02:19:49 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 04, 2015, 02:15:54 AM
Ah, he seems to be posting here: hxxp://www.offtopicalia.com/foro/index.php?topic=25006.0
Edit: Never mind, it popped up as July 2015 but it's actually from February.
Here he is, as of yesterday:
http://www.erisbarandgrill.com/index.php/topic,34.msg197.html#new
Yay!
Yeah, I had a bad moment, there.
Quote from: Meunster on August 04, 2015, 03:59:58 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 04, 2015, 03:47:48 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 04, 2015, 02:19:49 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 04, 2015, 02:15:54 AM
Ah, he seems to be posting here: hxxp://www.offtopicalia.com/foro/index.php?topic=25006.0
Edit: Never mind, it popped up as July 2015 but it's actually from February.
Here he is, as of yesterday:
http://www.erisbarandgrill.com/index.php/topic,34.msg197.html#new
I had no idea that forum still existed.
The hell are they posting?
Timeless Physics is a thing, and you should be grateful one of the seven people alive on this planet who understands it is nominally on our side.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 04, 2015, 05:57:52 AM
Quote from: Meunster on August 04, 2015, 03:59:58 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 04, 2015, 03:47:48 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 04, 2015, 02:19:49 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 04, 2015, 02:15:54 AM
Ah, he seems to be posting here: hxxp://www.offtopicalia.com/foro/index.php?topic=25006.0
Edit: Never mind, it popped up as July 2015 but it's actually from February.
Here he is, as of yesterday:
http://www.erisbarandgrill.com/index.php/topic,34.msg197.html#new
I had no idea that forum still existed.
The hell are they posting?
Timeless Physics is a thing, and you should be grateful one of the seven people alive on this planet who understands it is nominally on our side.
He's on our side. But collateral damage is also a thing, and he budgets for it.
He's a better man than me. If I were him, I'd just win the lottery every month and give the money to communism.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 04, 2015, 06:00:54 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 04, 2015, 05:57:52 AM
Quote from: Meunster on August 04, 2015, 03:59:58 AM
Quote from: Hoopla on August 04, 2015, 03:47:48 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 04, 2015, 02:19:49 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 04, 2015, 02:15:54 AM
Ah, he seems to be posting here: hxxp://www.offtopicalia.com/foro/index.php?topic=25006.0
Edit: Never mind, it popped up as July 2015 but it's actually from February.
Here he is, as of yesterday:
http://www.erisbarandgrill.com/index.php/topic,34.msg197.html#new
I had no idea that forum still existed.
The hell are they posting?
Timeless Physics is a thing, and you should be grateful one of the seven people alive on this planet who understands it is nominally on our side.
He's on our side. But collateral damage is also a thing, and he budgets for it.
Yes, pretty much just this.
Hi!
Tonight, I am stalking hirley0 on the internet. Glad to see that he's still around. I wanted to confirm he wasn't dead, because he's, well, old.
ALSO: I am proud to add absolutely no value to this thread.
Thanks!
Quote from: boneskull on September 05, 2015, 06:46:12 AM
Hi!
Tonight, I am stalking hirley0 on the internet. Glad to see that he's still around. I wanted to confirm he wasn't dead, because he's, well, old.
ALSO: I am proud to add absolutely no value to this thread.
Thanks!
He's at EB&G, and fine as of August 15th.
Quote from: boneskull on September 05, 2015, 06:46:12 AM
ALSO: I am proud to add absolutely no value to this thread.
Thanks!
Don't worry, neither did anyone else.
About that pejorative, age-related old-fag shaming, I trust the will to confirm instead originated from the perceived delay to recognize how recently he had indeed posted.
Quote from: boneskull on September 05, 2015, 06:46:12 AM
Hi!
Tonight, I am stalking hirley0 on the internet. Glad to see that he's still around. I wanted to confirm he wasn't dead, because he's, well, old.
ALSO: I am proud to add absolutely no value to this thread.
Thanks!
I just want to make sure Hirley0 maintains some adequate representation during his period of absence. That's all.
Quote from: LuciferX on September 09, 2015, 12:50:32 AM
I just want to make sure Hirley0 maintains some adequate representation during his period of absence. That's all.
Go fuck yourself.
Forgetaboutit.
You can cut that diversion from our usual this thread sucks shenanigans if you like. It's a shithole either way :)
Quote from: boneskull on September 05, 2015, 06:46:12 AM
Hi!
Tonight, I am stalking hirley0 on the internet. Glad to see that he's still around. I wanted to confirm he wasn't dead, because he's, well, old.
ALSO: I am proud to add absolutely no value to this thread.
Thanks!
Are you an oldschool PDX BBSer?