Yes, it's Slate, but it's interesting. (http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.html)
QuoteOne consequence... is the division that DWYL creates among workers, largely along class lines. Work becomes divided into two opposing classes: that which is lovable (creative, intellectual, socially prestigious) and that which is not (repetitive, unintellectual, undistinguished). Those in the lovable-work camp are vastly more privileged in terms of wealth, social status, education, society's racial biases, and political clout, while comprising a small minority of the workforce.
QuoteYet with the vast majority of workers effectively invisible to elites busy in their lovable occupations, how can it be surprising that the heavy strains faced by today's workers—abysmal wages, massive child care costs, etc.—barely register as political issues even among the liberal faction of the ruling class?
In ignoring most work and reclassifying the rest as love, DWYL may be the most elegant anti-worker ideology around. Why should workers assemble and assert their class interests if there's no such thing as work?
QuoteDWYL reinforces exploitation even within the so-called lovable professions, where off-the-clock, underpaid, or unpaid labor is the new norm: reporters required to do the work of their laid-off photographers, publicists expected to pin and tweet on weekends, the 46 percent of the workforce expected to check their work email on sick days. Nothing makes exploitation go down easier than convincing workers that they are doing what they love.
Instead of crafting a nation of self-fulfilled, happy workers, our DWYL era has seen the rise of the adjunct professor and the unpaid intern: people persuaded to work for cheap or free, or even for a net loss of wealth.
QuoteDo what you love and you'll never work a day in your life! Before succumbing to the intoxicating warmth of that promise, it's critical to ask, "Who, exactly, benefits from making work feel like nonwork?" "Why should workers feel as if they aren't working when they are?" In masking the very exploitative mechanisms of labor that it fuels, DWYL is, in fact, the most perfect ideological tool of capitalism.
If no work gets done, everyone fucking starves.
Ergo, work must be done.
Therefore it is best to do work you enjoy.
Does that serve the system? Who cares?
Fucking Slate.
I hear a "You're an at-will employee" a lot. Along with "You choose every day, to be here and do your best. If you can't do that or don't want to do that, then leave. It's your choice." I heard this almost every day at the last place I worked. Usually when I was pointing out OSHA violations or asking if I got overtime for the extended hours closers had to work on floor care nights.
Along the same lines and just as fucking stupid.
It's easy to talk down to the peons when you've got insurance and sick-leave and whatever else. It's also easy to make the manager scared like nothing else when he remembers what it was like to be a peon and how easy it is to be demoted back to that.
Their whole premise seems to be that people can only be doing what they love if it involves higher education or some kind of art.
There are plenty of people doing what they love in the way of construction, maintenance, farming, hell there are even people that are happy being maids and janitors.
It's stupid to think that someone being happy at their job is somehow a bad thing.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 04:46:50 PM
I heard this almost every day at the last place I worked. Usually when I was pointing out OSHA violations or asking if I got overtime for the extended hours closers had to work on floor care nights.
How did you not report them for this? That's JAIL TIME for the offending manager. And deservedly so.
Quote from: Sita on January 17, 2014, 04:47:51 PM
It's stupid to think that someone being happy at their job is somehow a bad thing.
But very hip.
The idea of work you enjoy being bad because someone else might benefit from it is fucking retarded.
It's really just the flipside of teabaggerism.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 04:48:15 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 04:46:50 PM
I heard this almost every day at the last place I worked. Usually when I was pointing out OSHA violations or asking if I got overtime for the extended hours closers had to work on floor care nights.
How did you not report them for this? That's JAIL TIME for the offending manager. And deservedly so.
I made the reports 'along appropriate channels'. Nothing ever happened. When I went a more direct route, suddenly I was a bad employee who lied a lot and was really lazy.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 04:51:03 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 04:48:15 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 04:46:50 PM
I heard this almost every day at the last place I worked. Usually when I was pointing out OSHA violations or asking if I got overtime for the extended hours closers had to work on floor care nights.
How did you not report them for this? That's JAIL TIME for the offending manager. And deservedly so.
I made the reports 'along appropriate channels'. Nothing ever happened. When I went a more direct route, suddenly I was a bad employee who lied a lot and was really lazy.
Which channels were those?
If your employer told you that the corporate chain of command was appropriate, that too is jail time.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 04:52:25 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 04:51:03 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 04:48:15 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 04:46:50 PM
I heard this almost every day at the last place I worked. Usually when I was pointing out OSHA violations or asking if I got overtime for the extended hours closers had to work on floor care nights.
How did you not report them for this? That's JAIL TIME for the offending manager. And deservedly so.
I made the reports 'along appropriate channels'. Nothing ever happened. When I went a more direct route, suddenly I was a bad employee who lied a lot and was really lazy.
Which channels were those?
If your employer told you that the corporate chain of command was appropriate, that too is jail time.
There was an 'independent' but affiliated number we were supposed to call any time we saw violations of any variety. Promised anonymity and quick response, etc. 'Cept anyone who called mysteriously became an awful employee.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 05:27:42 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 04:52:25 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 04:51:03 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 04:48:15 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 04:46:50 PM
I heard this almost every day at the last place I worked. Usually when I was pointing out OSHA violations or asking if I got overtime for the extended hours closers had to work on floor care nights.
How did you not report them for this? That's JAIL TIME for the offending manager. And deservedly so.
I made the reports 'along appropriate channels'. Nothing ever happened. When I went a more direct route, suddenly I was a bad employee who lied a lot and was really lazy.
Which channels were those?
If your employer told you that the corporate chain of command was appropriate, that too is jail time.
There was an 'independent' but affiliated number we were supposed to call any time we saw violations of any variety. Promised anonymity and quick response, etc. 'Cept anyone who called mysteriously became an awful employee.
https://www.osha.gov/oshdir/ga.html
It's never too late to spread a little love.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 05:27:42 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 04:52:25 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 04:51:03 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 04:48:15 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 04:46:50 PM
I heard this almost every day at the last place I worked. Usually when I was pointing out OSHA violations or asking if I got overtime for the extended hours closers had to work on floor care nights.
How did you not report them for this? That's JAIL TIME for the offending manager. And deservedly so.
I made the reports 'along appropriate channels'. Nothing ever happened. When I went a more direct route, suddenly I was a bad employee who lied a lot and was really lazy.
Which channels were those?
If your employer told you that the corporate chain of command was appropriate, that too is jail time.
There was an 'independent' but affiliated number we were supposed to call any time we saw violations of any variety. Promised anonymity and quick response, etc. 'Cept anyone who called mysteriously became an awful employee.
Ooooo
you might want to talk to a lawyer about that. Or just call OSHA directly. That sounds HELL of illegal, on an epic scale.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 04:07:21 PM
Yes, it's Slate, but it's interesting. (http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.html)
QuoteOne consequence... is the division that DWYL creates among workers, largely along class lines. Work becomes divided into two opposing classes: that which is lovable (creative, intellectual, socially prestigious) and that which is not (repetitive, unintellectual, undistinguished). Those in the lovable-work camp are vastly more privileged in terms of wealth, social status, education, society's racial biases, and political clout, while comprising a small minority of the workforce.
QuoteYet with the vast majority of workers effectively invisible to elites busy in their lovable occupations, how can it be surprising that the heavy strains faced by today's workers—abysmal wages, massive child care costs, etc.—barely register as political issues even among the liberal faction of the ruling class?
In ignoring most work and reclassifying the rest as love, DWYL may be the most elegant anti-worker ideology around. Why should workers assemble and assert their class interests if there's no such thing as work?
QuoteDWYL reinforces exploitation even within the so-called lovable professions, where off-the-clock, underpaid, or unpaid labor is the new norm: reporters required to do the work of their laid-off photographers, publicists expected to pin and tweet on weekends, the 46 percent of the workforce expected to check their work email on sick days. Nothing makes exploitation go down easier than convincing workers that they are doing what they love.
Instead of crafting a nation of self-fulfilled, happy workers, our DWYL era has seen the rise of the adjunct professor and the unpaid intern: people persuaded to work for cheap or free, or even for a net loss of wealth.
QuoteDo what you love and you'll never work a day in your life! Before succumbing to the intoxicating warmth of that promise, it's critical to ask, "Who, exactly, benefits from making work feel like nonwork?" "Why should workers feel as if they aren't working when they are?" In masking the very exploitative mechanisms of labor that it fuels, DWYL is, in fact, the most perfect ideological tool of capitalism.
I think I agree with their premise, actually.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 05:39:01 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 05:27:42 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 04:52:25 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 04:51:03 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 04:48:15 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 04:46:50 PM
I heard this almost every day at the last place I worked. Usually when I was pointing out OSHA violations or asking if I got overtime for the extended hours closers had to work on floor care nights.
How did you not report them for this? That's JAIL TIME for the offending manager. And deservedly so.
I made the reports 'along appropriate channels'. Nothing ever happened. When I went a more direct route, suddenly I was a bad employee who lied a lot and was really lazy.
Which channels were those?
If your employer told you that the corporate chain of command was appropriate, that too is jail time.
There was an 'independent' but affiliated number we were supposed to call any time we saw violations of any variety. Promised anonymity and quick response, etc. 'Cept anyone who called mysteriously became an awful employee.
https://www.osha.gov/oshdir/ga.html
It's never too late to spread a little love.
That's what I like about you, Roger. You're always looking for ways to give back to the community. :lulz:
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 17, 2014, 05:52:31 PM
That's what I like about you, Roger. You're always looking for ways to give back to the community. :lulz:
I am having a really angry week. :lulz:
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 17, 2014, 05:45:08 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 04:07:21 PM
Yes, it's Slate, but it's interesting. (http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.html)
QuoteOne consequence... is the division that DWYL creates among workers, largely along class lines. Work becomes divided into two opposing classes: that which is lovable (creative, intellectual, socially prestigious) and that which is not (repetitive, unintellectual, undistinguished). Those in the lovable-work camp are vastly more privileged in terms of wealth, social status, education, society's racial biases, and political clout, while comprising a small minority of the workforce.
QuoteYet with the vast majority of workers effectively invisible to elites busy in their lovable occupations, how can it be surprising that the heavy strains faced by today's workers—abysmal wages, massive child care costs, etc.—barely register as political issues even among the liberal faction of the ruling class?
In ignoring most work and reclassifying the rest as love, DWYL may be the most elegant anti-worker ideology around. Why should workers assemble and assert their class interests if there's no such thing as work?
QuoteDWYL reinforces exploitation even within the so-called lovable professions, where off-the-clock, underpaid, or unpaid labor is the new norm: reporters required to do the work of their laid-off photographers, publicists expected to pin and tweet on weekends, the 46 percent of the workforce expected to check their work email on sick days. Nothing makes exploitation go down easier than convincing workers that they are doing what they love.
Instead of crafting a nation of self-fulfilled, happy workers, our DWYL era has seen the rise of the adjunct professor and the unpaid intern: people persuaded to work for cheap or free, or even for a net loss of wealth.
QuoteDo what you love and you'll never work a day in your life! Before succumbing to the intoxicating warmth of that promise, it's critical to ask, "Who, exactly, benefits from making work feel like nonwork?" "Why should workers feel as if they aren't working when they are?" In masking the very exploitative mechanisms of labor that it fuels, DWYL is, in fact, the most perfect ideological tool of capitalism.
I think I agree with their premise, actually.
I do too.
I'm reminded of something I read recently (can't remember where) which asked "Should people who love their job be paid less?"
Sure, they're already working on weekends and sick days... why not pay them less too?
Quote from: Hoopla on January 17, 2014, 05:56:37 PM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 17, 2014, 05:45:08 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 04:07:21 PM
Yes, it's Slate, but it's interesting. (http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2014/01/do_what_you_love_love_what_you_do_an_omnipresent_mantra_that_s_bad_for_work.html)
QuoteOne consequence... is the division that DWYL creates among workers, largely along class lines. Work becomes divided into two opposing classes: that which is lovable (creative, intellectual, socially prestigious) and that which is not (repetitive, unintellectual, undistinguished). Those in the lovable-work camp are vastly more privileged in terms of wealth, social status, education, society's racial biases, and political clout, while comprising a small minority of the workforce.
QuoteYet with the vast majority of workers effectively invisible to elites busy in their lovable occupations, how can it be surprising that the heavy strains faced by today's workers—abysmal wages, massive child care costs, etc.—barely register as political issues even among the liberal faction of the ruling class?
In ignoring most work and reclassifying the rest as love, DWYL may be the most elegant anti-worker ideology around. Why should workers assemble and assert their class interests if there's no such thing as work?
QuoteDWYL reinforces exploitation even within the so-called lovable professions, where off-the-clock, underpaid, or unpaid labor is the new norm: reporters required to do the work of their laid-off photographers, publicists expected to pin and tweet on weekends, the 46 percent of the workforce expected to check their work email on sick days. Nothing makes exploitation go down easier than convincing workers that they are doing what they love.
Instead of crafting a nation of self-fulfilled, happy workers, our DWYL era has seen the rise of the adjunct professor and the unpaid intern: people persuaded to work for cheap or free, or even for a net loss of wealth.
QuoteDo what you love and you'll never work a day in your life! Before succumbing to the intoxicating warmth of that promise, it's critical to ask, "Who, exactly, benefits from making work feel like nonwork?" "Why should workers feel as if they aren't working when they are?" In masking the very exploitative mechanisms of labor that it fuels, DWYL is, in fact, the most perfect ideological tool of capitalism.
I think I agree with their premise, actually.
I do too.
I'm reminded of something I read recently (can't remember where) which asked "Should people who love their job be paid less?"
Sure, they're already working on weekends and sick days... why not pay them less too?
Hang on now. I never said shit about paying them less.
So, what, I should get a job I hate?
Um.
Wait a minute.
HEY, YOU CAN ALL BE SUNNY & UPBEAT LIKE ME!
Well, as one of the privliged white kids growing up, I got the "follow your bliss" and "do what you love" and "find a job you love" stuff a lot. It didn't help that my dad loved physics and science, and was a physics teacher, and became director of a national physics lab, and became a national science advisor.
So, there I was, I loved music, I loved horses, I loved books... And 30 years later I'm not a cowboy or rockstar or noted academic, I'm grinding it out in a financial corporation, analyzing IRS and SEC regulations as it pertains to life insurance. It kind of fucked me up for a while.
I know, petty, rich white guy whining.
And I know, I know, I'm still rocking, I still get to ride, I still read. But to spend 8-10 hours a day doing something I really have no deep enjoyment of at all, at all, is kind of shitty.
:emo:
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 06:34:27 PM
Well, as one of the privliged white kids growing up, I got the "follow your bliss" and "do what you love" and "find a job you love" stuff a lot. It didn't help that my dad loved physics and science, and was a physics teacher, and became director of a national physics lab, and became a national science advisor.
So, there I was, I loved music, I loved horses, I loved books... And 30 years later I'm not a cowboy or rockstar or noted academic, I'm grinding it out in a financial corporation, analyzing IRS and SEC regulations as it pertains to life insurance. It kind of fucked me up for a while.
I know, petty, rich white guy whining.
And I know, I know, I'm still rocking, I still get to ride, I still read. But to spend 8-10 hours a day doing something I really have no deep enjoyment of at all, at all, is kind of shitty.
:emo:
According to the article, you're doing the right thing.
Hm. I didn't think if it like that. I notice that I am uncomfortable.
That indicates a potential learning option.
All I know is that I hate my job, I hate my fucking coworkers, and every day I hate myself a little more for sitting here hating it all. I put up with this shit so that my daughter can go to a solvent school. That situation is almost over, fortunately.
I know people who do what they love. They aren't working unpaid overtime (except, of course, for the ones who work for themselves) or smiling contentedly as they get sodomized by rich liberals or whatever. They're making a living. One's a photographer, one's a chemist, etc.
I get where the article is going. But I also have to ask, who gains by the idea that you should have to hate your job or you're some kind of sell out?
It goes back to that whole Puritan thing of suffer in this life so you can earn bliss in the afterlife thing. Everything here should be awful and shitty and suck so much that you're happy to die and you've earned your ticket to heaven by suffering so much here. O.O
I was seeing it more as a myth that is fed to rich kids, that if you end up not doing something you love, you're somehow a failure.
But I may very well have been reading my own fears and insecurities into the piece.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 06:52:01 PM
I was seeing it more as a myth that is fed to rich kids, that if you end up not doing something you love, you're somehow a failure.
But I may very well have been reading my own fears and insecurities into the piece.
You have three choices:
1. Do what you love.
2. Love what you do.
3. Be angry all the damn time.
I didn't do #1, I can't do #2 most of the time, and so for the moment I am stuck on #3.
For another 6-9 months. Then I am no longer trapped...At which point I may walk the hell out of this place, or hell, I may even enjoy it again (since it will at that point be optional).
I just think that the idea of preaching (in a rather one-sided manner) that you are FUCKED if you love what you do, or are somehow "part of the problem" or whatever, is the denial of Slack™ as a desirable thing.
"Be content in your misery; it could be worse. You could like your job."
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 06:52:01 PM
I was seeing it more as a myth that is fed to rich kids, that if you end up not doing something you love, you're somehow a failure.
But I may very well have been reading my own fears and insecurities into the piece.
I saw it along the similar lines, but not exactly the same.
The rich have the luxury to do what they love. People who are not rich have to do what they are able to whether they love it or not.
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 17, 2014, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 06:52:01 PM
I was seeing it more as a myth that is fed to rich kids, that if you end up not doing something you love, you're somehow a failure.
But I may very well have been reading my own fears and insecurities into the piece.
I saw it along the similar lines, but not exactly the same.
The rich have the luxury to do what they love. People who are not rich have to do what they are able to whether they love it or not.
You and Nigel are both going back to school, yes? Presumably to get the credentials to do what you want to do?
Are either of you rich?
The poor have to bust their fucking genetalia to do what they want to do, and yes, there is a certain amount of luck involved (but not as much as "being born rich"), but both of you are proof that it can be done.
The only difference is that it's more or less handed to rich folks.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 07:01:48 PM
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 17, 2014, 06:57:24 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 06:52:01 PM
I was seeing it more as a myth that is fed to rich kids, that if you end up not doing something you love, you're somehow a failure.
But I may very well have been reading my own fears and insecurities into the piece.
I saw it along the similar lines, but not exactly the same.
The rich have the luxury to do what they love. People who are not rich have to do what they are able to whether they love it or not.
You and Nigel are both going back to school, yes? Presumably to get the credentials to do what you want to do?
Are either of you rich?
The poor have to bust their fucking genetalia to do what they want to do, and yes, there is a certain amount of luck involved (but not as much as "being born rich"), but both of you are proof that it can be done.
The only difference is that it's more or less handed to rich folks.
Fair point.
I'm back in school to get the credentials to do what I have to (that is, get a proper job). That I'm generally interested in science is a bonus, but my decision to go into it was based off usefulness of the degree and realizing that the rock star thing probably wasn't going to happen. I'm going to end up doing what I love, but the choice was borne out of necessity as much as anything else (with anything else including the desire to leave my job, or not doing what I don't love).
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 06:52:01 PM
I was seeing it more as a myth that is fed to rich kids, that if you end up not doing something you love, you're somehow a failure.
But I may very well have been reading my own fears and insecurities into the piece.
I read it as "must be nice to have the option of doing something you love". Perhaps I read it wrong.
Quote from: Hoopla on January 17, 2014, 07:17:07 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 06:52:01 PM
I was seeing it more as a myth that is fed to rich kids, that if you end up not doing something you love, you're somehow a failure.
But I may very well have been reading my own fears and insecurities into the piece.
I read it as "must be nice to have the option of doing something you love". Perhaps I read it wrong.
I have that option. But I choose not to use that option, as I do not wish to spend time in prison.
Because what I really want to do is rob banks. No shit. If I could do anything I wanted, I'd make John Dillinger look like a small time pickpocket.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 06:56:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 06:52:01 PM
I was seeing it more as a myth that is fed to rich kids, that if you end up not doing something you love, you're somehow a failure.
But I may very well have been reading my own fears and insecurities into the piece.
You have three choices:
1. Do what you love.
2. Love what you do.
3. Be angry all the damn time.
I didn't do #1, I can't do #2 most of the time, and so for the moment I am stuck on #3.
For another 6-9 months. Then I am no longer trapped...At which point I may walk the hell out of this place, or hell, I may even enjoy it again (since it will at that point be optional).
I just think that the idea of preaching (in a rather one-sided manner) that you are FUCKED if you love what you do, or are somehow "part of the problem" or whatever, is the denial of Slack™ as a desirable thing.
"Be content in your misery; it could be worse. You could like your job."
You make an excellent point, sir. I'm probably just bitter after having toured a really excellent film school yesterday and know I can never ever, in a million years, attend it.
Quote from: Hoopla on January 17, 2014, 07:21:19 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 06:56:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 06:52:01 PM
I was seeing it more as a myth that is fed to rich kids, that if you end up not doing something you love, you're somehow a failure.
But I may very well have been reading my own fears and insecurities into the piece.
You have three choices:
1. Do what you love.
2. Love what you do.
3. Be angry all the damn time.
I didn't do #1, I can't do #2 most of the time, and so for the moment I am stuck on #3.
For another 6-9 months. Then I am no longer trapped...At which point I may walk the hell out of this place, or hell, I may even enjoy it again (since it will at that point be optional).
I just think that the idea of preaching (in a rather one-sided manner) that you are FUCKED if you love what you do, or are somehow "part of the problem" or whatever, is the denial of Slack™ as a desirable thing.
"Be content in your misery; it could be worse. You could like your job."
You make an excellent point, sir. I'm probably just bitter after having toured a really excellent film school yesterday and know I can never ever, in a million years, attend it.
There's a bit of room between "getting exactly what you want" and "hating your job passionately".
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 07:29:18 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on January 17, 2014, 07:21:19 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 06:56:57 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 06:52:01 PM
I was seeing it more as a myth that is fed to rich kids, that if you end up not doing something you love, you're somehow a failure.
But I may very well have been reading my own fears and insecurities into the piece.
You have three choices:
1. Do what you love.
2. Love what you do.
3. Be angry all the damn time.
I didn't do #1, I can't do #2 most of the time, and so for the moment I am stuck on #3.
For another 6-9 months. Then I am no longer trapped...At which point I may walk the hell out of this place, or hell, I may even enjoy it again (since it will at that point be optional).
I just think that the idea of preaching (in a rather one-sided manner) that you are FUCKED if you love what you do, or are somehow "part of the problem" or whatever, is the denial of Slack™ as a desirable thing.
"Be content in your misery; it could be worse. You could like your job."
You make an excellent point, sir. I'm probably just bitter after having toured a really excellent film school yesterday and know I can never ever, in a million years, attend it.
There's a bit of room between "getting exactly what you want" and "hating your job passionately".
Absolutely. What I did before wasn't exactly my dream job (though it was likely the dream job of a lot of guys), but it was pretty damn hard to complain about.
Oh, I didn't realize you changed jobs. When did you stop photoshopping porn stars?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 07:32:46 PM
Oh, I didn't realize you changed jobs. When did you stop photoshopping porn stars?
They laid all three of us off a couple months ago.
Sorry to hear that. Well, at least you won't have to look at hemorrhoids in HD anymore.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 07:52:42 PM
Sorry to hear that. Well, at least you won't have to look at hemorrhoids in HD anymore.
I damn near sharted again. :lulz:
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 07:53:32 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 07:52:42 PM
Sorry to hear that. Well, at least you won't have to look at hemorrhoids in HD anymore.
I damn near sharted again. :lulz:
:lulz: :horrormirth:
That
is the upside to it.
I thought the "do what you love" mantra was one of those motivational poster thingees that nobody really expects you to take seriously.
I like my job. I just can't live on what I get paid, and therefore have to go find something better.
OTOH, I spent an unhappy 4 months busting ass in a nursing home for minimum wage.
...Here I get slightly above minimum, free coffee, and glorious boredom.
Not feces-flinging Alzheimer's patients and asshole co-workers.
...It could be worse...
OP has a few good points.
Yeah, you don't need to hate your job to be a good whatever, but the idea that everyone should do what they love is incredibly damaging to everyone involved.
Everyone who loves what they do gets no right to complain about their job ever, they lose.
Everyone who hates what they do gets no right to complain because they shouldn't have been doing that anyway, they lose.
Everyone who just doesn't care that much has no ambition/selfrespect so they deserve to never get any breaks, the lazy bastards, they lose twice.
You can't win.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/find-the-thing-youre-most-passionate-about-then-do,31742/ (http://www.theonion.com/articles/find-the-thing-youre-most-passionate-about-then-do,31742/)
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 04:38:01 PM
If no work gets done, everyone fucking starves.
Ergo, work must be done.
Therefore it is best to do work you enjoy.
Does that serve the system? Who cares?
Fucking Slate.
But, but, if I am not being exploited how do I become a martyr?
Doing what you love is only possible under privileged conditions.
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 19, 2014, 02:45:08 AM
Doing what you love is only possible under privileged conditions.
Mostly.
You're earning what you're going to do. As I understand it, that's not privilege.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 19, 2014, 03:43:06 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 19, 2014, 02:45:08 AM
Doing what you love is only possible under privileged conditions.
Mostly.
You're earning what you're going to do. As I understand it, that's not privilege.
The option of doing so is privilege.
Make no mistake: I am keenly aware of the privilege in my life. I am incredibly fortunate, through absolutely no doing of my own, to have the option of attending college in order to pursue my career interests. I am doubly privileged to be able to recognize that option, and triply privileged in having the basic ability and recognition that allows me to take advantage of it. I earned NONE of those things.
Yeah, I may sweat and hurt myself and freak out daily about my business, but if it were not for circumstances beyond my power to change I would not be able to do so.
Even if my field is more of a challenge as a male than if I were fenale.
I:
Speak well and professionally, due to quality (German) education, luck.
Possess the phsicality to do my work, no double joints, weakness, disability, or other physical limits.
Was able to get my education at all because of the wealth and stability of my surroinding economy and socio political environment
I worked graveyard security while I.went.to massage school. Midnight to 8am, then school from 9 to 5pm.
Yeah it was a lot of hard work, yeah there was no immediate and apparent support.
I did those things, and sweated for it, But the idea that that is all it takes is flawed.
To accomplish anything worthwhile you have to USE your privalige, and dont cheapen it. Give credit where credit is due. Take pride in your hard.work and effort, give praise to the environment which allows you to do so.
A great majority of the things people usually attribute to "luck" is in fact privilege, it's just disguised as unintentional happy circumstance.
Quote from: V3X on January 19, 2014, 09:01:13 PM
A great majority of the things people usually attribute to "luck" is in fact privilege, it's just disguised as unintentional happy circumstance.
They're "The Elect".
They used "The Secret" or "The Power of Positive Thinking" or whatever the stupid book is for this decade.
Etc.
This is getting pretty dismal.
No matter how hard you work, or how hard you try, everything is just privilege in the end.
You are apparently not allowed to feel good about anything, without making sure to feel guilty about it. It's almost like everyone ran out and became Catholic while I wasn't looking.
I can see that argument. But it isn't all bad. I have said elsewhere that recognizing one's privilege is no excuse not to capitalize on it (in some cases). I will always be privileged in some sense and unprivileged in another sense. I have a brother who was never any less privileged than I was, but he has done nothing useful in his life despite that privilege. So it isn't like privilege is all that went into it.
Quote from: V3X on January 20, 2014, 01:54:58 AM
I can see that argument. But it isn't all bad. I have said elsewhere that recognizing one's privilege is no excuse not to capitalize on it (in some cases). I will always be privileged in some sense and unprivileged in another sense. I have a brother who was never any less privileged than I was, but he has done nothing useful in his life despite that privilege. So it isn't like privilege is all that went into it.
The way I see it, the privilege argument seems to be morphing into a "you can only be ashamed of failure, never proud of success." If you fail, the failure is yours. If you succeed, it was privilege.
It's turning from "how do we recognize when we have advantages we didn't earn?" to "self-flagellation".
I mean, the article in the OP has already told me that if I like my job, I am the enemy of the working man. By that standard, I should remain in the horror show that I currently work in, because I'm not doing what I like.
Misery porn.
I thought it was not so much feeling guilty, as just recognizing that the good luck you were born into or stumbled into in life doesn't make you necessarily superior to anyone else or anything.
Not so much "don't be proud of yourself " its' "don't shit on others."
...We don't have a choice but to work, so we might as well try to feel good about something we don't have a choice but to do.
...Just saying, it's more adaptive.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 20, 2014, 01:41:24 AM
This is getting pretty dismal.
No matter how hard you work, or how hard you try, everything is just privilege in the end.
You are apparently not allowed to feel good about anything, without making sure to feel guilty about it. It's almost like everyone ran out and became Catholic while I wasn't looking.
I think you may be missing the point of the article, which was really based in the increasing income equality and the factors behind it. This even effects my field of interest, and most academic fields; you love it? You must be willing to do it for free, then, to get a toehold. I'll be in school probably close to ten years, total, and I am unlikely to ever top 100k per year even if I am one of the lucky ones. Hard work and privilege notwithstanding. The article addresses this. It was not about not working hard or not taking pride in your work, it was about the system that benefits from the idea that you should do what you love.
I'm not quite ready to stop examining that system with a critical eye, just because on a very tiny level I'm doing OK in it.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 20, 2014, 02:02:32 AM
I mean, the article in the OP has already told me that if I like my job, I am the enemy of the working man. By that standard, I should remain in the horror show that I currently work in, because I'm not doing what I like.
Misery porn.
I'm not getting a very strong impression that you actually read the article.
The "Do What You Love" ethic described in the article is the same one that causes the ivory-tower academic to look down his nose at the mere maintenance manager.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 06:44:32 PM
All I know is that I hate my job, I hate my fucking coworkers, and every day I hate myself a little more for sitting here hating it all. I put up with this shit so that my daughter can go to a solvent school. That situation is almost over, fortunately.
I know people who do what they love. They aren't working unpaid overtime (except, of course, for the ones who work for themselves) or smiling contentedly as they get sodomized by rich liberals or whatever. They're making a living. One's a photographer, one's a chemist, etc.
I get where the article is going. But I also have to ask, who gains by the idea that you should have to hate your job or you're some kind of sell out?
Indie bands who get a deal?
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 20, 2014, 01:41:24 AM
This is getting pretty dismal.
No matter how hard you work, or how hard you try, everything is just privilege in the end.
You are apparently not allowed to feel good about anything, without making sure to feel guilty about it. It's almost like everyone ran out and became Catholic while I wasn't looking.
Hate the game not the player?
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 20, 2014, 02:15:23 PM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 20, 2014, 03:33:42 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 20, 2014, 02:02:32 AM
I mean, the article in the OP has already told me that if I like my job, I am the enemy of the working man. By that standard, I should remain in the horror show that I currently work in, because I'm not doing what I like.
Misery porn.
I'm not getting a very strong impression that you actually read the article.
The "Do What You Love" ethic described in the article is the same one that causes the ivory-tower academic to look down his nose at the mere maintenance manager.
Oh, I got that part. I just refuse to allow MBA-speak to replace English.
The fact that someone loves what they do doesn't justify extended internships (or unpaid internships in the corporate world), nor does it justify unpaid overtime, etc.
And the author has accepted the MBA speak, and called the whole concept of doing what you love into question, rather than the MBA tards' corruption of it.
But then it sort of drifted into a conversation about privilege.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 20, 2014, 02:18:26 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 20, 2014, 02:15:23 PM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 20, 2014, 03:33:42 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 20, 2014, 02:02:32 AM
I mean, the article in the OP has already told me that if I like my job, I am the enemy of the working man. By that standard, I should remain in the horror show that I currently work in, because I'm not doing what I like.
Misery porn.
I'm not getting a very strong impression that you actually read the article.
The "Do What You Love" ethic described in the article is the same one that causes the ivory-tower academic to look down his nose at the mere maintenance manager.
Oh, I got that part. I just refuse to allow MBA-speak to replace English.
The fact that someone loves what they do doesn't justify extended internships (or unpaid internships in the corporate world), nor does it justify unpaid overtime, etc.
And the author has accepted the MBA speak, and called the whole concept of doing what you love into question, rather than the MBA tards' corruption of it.
But then it sort of drifted into a conversation about privilege.
Bullshit. The author isn't talking about loving your work. He's talking about what is essentially a sponsored meme that has become epidemic in our culture, that true success and self-realization are dependent upon finding what you love, and making it your life's work. That meme, that MBA-speak as you call it, devalues the work that people do because they need to, and it discounts entirely the employer's responsibility to make such work meaningful, so that workers who are doing what they must instead of what they love can still take pride in the work they do, and find satisfaction in doing it well.
Yes, privilege is a factor in that, as it is in everything. Are we supposed to pretend it isn't? I'm not buying into the "if you can do it, anyone can" bullshit because I know perfectly well what external factors assisted my ability to do what I'm doing.
Did you actually read the article? Maybe you should try re-reading it.
In short, the article doesn't say "don't love your work", it says "stop buying into the bullshit, it hurts everybody".
Musicians have a very good understanding of this.
"You're doing what you love - why should I pay you?"
Please note that I am not fleeing from or conceding this debate.
I'm just not able to argue without getting all pissed off right now, no matter what I am arguing about. To avoid being a complete jackass to my friends here, I will be avoiding this thread until I feel better.
Considering is horse shit, simply do!
If everyday you think your highest esteemed thoughts, they too will come to be mundane.
For Discordia's you seem to be very much under the yolk of 'rules' and 'the way things work'
Seems unproductive to me, like believing 'Doing what you love' would be a product of 'Trying to do what you think you love' (A day one lesson of BIP!)
Oh boy.
Quote from: 3n1g on January 21, 2014, 05:39:50 AM
Considering is horse shit, simply do!
If everyday you think your highest esteemed thoughts, they too will come to be mundane.
For Discordia's you seem to be very much under the yolk of 'rules' and 'the way things work'
Seems unproductive to me, like believing 'Doing what you love' would be a product of 'Trying to do what you think you love' (A day one lesson of BIP!)
Someone I respect once said some words which I consider very wise, even to this day. I would encourage you to consider them now.
SHUT UP.
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 21, 2014, 08:57:04 AM
Quote from: 3n1g on January 21, 2014, 05:39:50 AM
Considering is horse shit, simply do!
If everyday you think your highest esteemed thoughts, they too will come to be mundane.
For Discordia's you seem to be very much under the yolk of 'rules' and 'the way things work'
Seems unproductive to me, like believing 'Doing what you love' would be a product of 'Trying to do what you think you love' (A day one lesson of BIP!)
Someone I respect once said some words which I consider very wise, even to this day. I would encourage you to consider them now.
SHUT UP.
Why do people think we're interested in discord?
When will they figure out that we're all about dis cord:
(https://mirror.cricut.com/web/images/products/1000390/large/0001.jpg)
Everything's about dis cord here.
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 21, 2014, 11:25:07 AM
Why do people think we're interested in discord?
When will they figure out that we're all about dis cord:
(https://mirror.cricut.com/web/images/products/1000390/large/0001.jpg)
Everything's about dis cord here.
As opposed to dat cord ovah deah.
...Hi new poster. Are you a human?
P.S.:
I don't think it's so much we're interested in discord as it's just an emergent property of our beings.
Hail Eris.
You discordia's are unproductive.
Quote from: 3n1g on January 21, 2014, 05:39:50 AM
Considering is horse shit, simply do!
If everyday you think your highest esteemed thoughts, they too will come to be mundane.
For Discordia's you seem to be very much under the yolk of 'rules' and 'the way things work'
Seems unproductive to me, like believing 'Doing what you love' would be a product of 'Trying to do what you think you love' (A day one lesson of BIP!)
:kojak:
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on January 21, 2014, 11:38:20 AM
As opposed to dat cord ovah deah.
...Hi new poster. Are you a human?
P.S.:
I don't think it's so much we're interested in discord as it's just an emergent property of our beings.
Hail Eris.
I am human but I have robot friends. And I don't be told what to do so no shut up. My teeth hurt.
Quote from: 3n1g on January 23, 2014, 03:03:07 AM
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on January 21, 2014, 11:38:20 AM
As opposed to dat cord ovah deah.
...Hi new poster. Are you a human?
P.S.:
I don't think it's so much we're interested in discord as it's just an emergent property of our beings.
Hail Eris.
I am human but I have robot friends. And I don't be told what to do so no shut up. My teeth hurt.
Lol, nice knee-jerk rebellion. Black sheep are still sheep.
Quote from: 3n1g on January 23, 2014, 03:03:07 AM
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on January 21, 2014, 11:38:20 AM
As opposed to dat cord ovah deah.
...Hi new poster. Are you a human?
P.S.:
I don't think it's so much we're interested in discord as it's just an emergent property of our beings.
Hail Eris.
I am human but I have robot friends. And I don't be told what to do so no shut up. My teeth hurt.
Suggestion: whiskey helps with toothache. Especially if you swallow it after swishing it around in your mouth a bit, and then repeat liberally.
...Follow advice at your own risk.
In fact, do everything at your own risk.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 17, 2014, 07:19:41 PM
Quote from: Hoopla on January 17, 2014, 07:17:07 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 17, 2014, 06:52:01 PM
I was seeing it more as a myth that is fed to rich kids, that if you end up not doing something you love, you're somehow a failure.
But I may very well have been reading my own fears and insecurities into the piece.
I read it as "must be nice to have the option of doing something you love". Perhaps I read it wrong.
I have that option. But I choose not to use that option, as I do not wish to spend time in prison.
Because what I really want to do is rob banks. No shit. If I could do anything I wanted, I'd make John Dillinger look like a small time pickpocket.
Dude, I can so relate. I wanted to be a hit man, like Jean Reno in Leon. :cry:
I agree with Nigel and Roger, and I don't think they're actually contradicting each other if I'm interpreting them correctly. I agree with Roger that it's good to enjoy your work, but I also agree with Nigel that we should neither feel obligated to follow our dreams, nor impose that obligation on others. I think the real enemy here is arbitrary social pressure and shame over details of our lives that ultimately don't hurt anyone else.
Quote from: President Television on January 25, 2014, 03:04:09 AM
I agree with Nigel and Roger, and I don't think they're actually contradicting each other if I'm interpreting them correctly. I agree with Roger that it's good to enjoy your work, but I also agree with Nigel that we should neither feel obligated to follow our dreams, nor impose that obligation on others. I think the real enemy here is arbitrary social pressure and shame over details of our lives that ultimately don't hurt anyone else.
Let's put it in this perspective:
I want to be a rockstar (much as Roger wants to be a bank robber, and yano, I can see it). I can't be a rock star. The odds are against me. Those odds would be skewed in my favor if I already had a boost of some sort or another. Music is highly competitive, favors the mediocre, and I actually care about how I express myself and how it sounds to me. That doesn't necessarily sell. It could. It could very well given the right marketing, representation and acumen to project the course of the entertainment industry against current technology. That's a lot of shit for a musician to handle. Unless you already have the financial resources to hire the right guys or make that lucky and unlikely break. I mean, hell, I would hands down say that LMNO is one of the 5 most impressive Massachusetts drummers I've ever heard, and I'd probably bump him up to number 2 on that list (and it's a close call even there). And yet, he is not signed, touring or famous. Some really messed up thing happened there where he's an office grunt.
I'm quite sure LMNO is an excellent office grunt, but he's most likely a better drummer, and would rather be doing that because he loves it. What LMNO does with drums I do with guitar and bass. I would love to do that. I would prefer to do that. Do what I love, right?
Yeah, no. I'm one of the guitarists for Anarchangel, a respected and promising band that is going to go nowhere. Not because of lack of skill, but because of three things: 1: We're musical project with a government that is kind of implied by the name. We don't have a manager at all, let alone a capable one. 2: We're all now doing other shit. Pat took over his late father's business. I'm going to school. Pete's thinking of moving to the other side of the continent. Villager wants to leave Boston because she hates Boston specifically (glad I narrowed that bit down, btw), and Anne Marie can get any music gig she wants locally. She's a Pagan that sings for the Catholic Church because her voice is awesome and the Pope never needs to find out. 3: We're doing what we love, but what we love isn't doing for us what we need it to. Why do you think I'm going into Biology? That's not what I WANT to do. It's something that I'm interested in and can see myself doing for the rest of my life, but that is not doing what I love. I'm doing what I'm interested in. And I'm doing it so I can do something else that pays better.
And I'm doing it so I can be an adult. To get a Bachelors. To get a Masters at worst and PhD at best. To marry my woman. To buy an abode. To create Twillagers that will annoy the crap out of me and Villager, but I will nevertheless dote on. To miss me when I'm gone forever. To do what I am supposed to. Not what I love, even though what I love has some overlap with this.
That's not doing what I love. The only doing what I love involved there is 9 months prior to the Twillagers.
I think nobody dreams about swabbing toilets for a living. Or working in a nursing home. Nobody dreams of picking up roadkill, or of growing up to be a septic-tank pumper or a garbage collector.
Some jobs are not very lovable, but really need doing anyway....and a lot of the jobs that ARE lovable are very highly competitive because a whole LOT of people want to do them.
I think that it's possible to find a sense of purpose in just about any job. But that doesn't mean you love the job you have to do for a paycheck...
And maybe the ideal that everyone should do what they love is either based in naivete...
...Or worse, in treating the toilet swabbers, butt-wipers, garbage collectors, mess removers, burger-slingers, shelf-stockers and all the other assorted humans who labor at crappy little jobs as if they don't really exist.
Because for some social strata, maybe they don't really exist, you know?
Mental blinders that the well-off and privileged wear to remain in their little privileged la-la land where everyone CAN do what they love, instead of swabbing other people's feces out of public toilets and such.
Because people of that ilk, the well-off, don't always want to look at what reality is really like, otherwise they might realize how not everyone can do it, how privileged they are. It makes it ever so much easier to ignore the injustices that benefit them and pretend everybody can arrange to do jobs they love.
...*Whew*...
I think that all made sense. Cutting back on the caffeine ATM. Maybe repeating the original article too much.
Still, if you are able to find meaning and enjoyment in what you have to do anyway, this is a good thing.
I think I know what you mean.
I work in a lab. I don't do fun lab stuff. I clean up data. It's boring. It's unfulfilling. I hate my job. My job is important. And at the end of the night I don't have to clean the urinals or empty the trash. Which is also an important job.
But both jobs, while my position is preferable are still mediocre jobs.
The reasons why I chose biology were along these lines:
I work in epidemiology for a hospital. Hospital will reimburse me for a grand in tuition related to life science for a fiscal year.
The community college I go to has a transfer program with UMass, where all credits transfer.
It's a hard science, which has a good return on investment.
Boston is known for biotech specifically and biology in general. I'm already here, and hope to remain a Masshole.
I want to be a productive member of society, and I want to help my species achieve something greater.
But even biology is a compromise. Given my druthers, if I could be any scientist I wanted to be, I would be an astrophysicist. That interests me more, but is more academic, and less practical, and more competitive. I would have to go to school in New York and intern in Arizona, probably.
Don't get me wrong, I actually really like Biology, and find it extremely interesting.
But my head has always been offworld, with some heavy music set to it, and it will always be that way. I will always choose to read an article about black holes or the latest discovered exoplanet over an article over a new species of bug or frog. Well, I'll read both, but I'm going to read one of them first.
Best of both worlds, no pun intended:
We figure out practical interstellar travel in my lifetime, find life in a system within a couple of light years away, send me on a survey expedition as a blue shirt, I come back to Earth in 6 to 9 months and do a little of heavy duty Terran biology on Villager.
I would totally sign up for that.
Quote from: hylierandom, A.D.D. on January 25, 2014, 06:54:12 AM
I think nobody dreams about swabbing toilets for a living. Or working in a nursing home. Nobody dreams of picking up roadkill, or of growing up to be a septic-tank pumper or a garbage collector.
Some jobs are not very lovable, but really need doing anyway....and a lot of the jobs that ARE lovable are very highly competitive because a whole LOT of people want to do them.
I think that it's possible to find a sense of purpose in just about any job. But that doesn't mean you love the job you have to do for a paycheck...
And maybe the ideal that everyone should do what they love is either based in naivete...
...Or worse, in treating the toilet swabbers, butt-wipers, garbage collectors, mess removers, burger-slingers, shelf-stockers and all the other assorted humans who labor at crappy little jobs as if they don't really exist.
Because for some social strata, maybe they don't really exist, you know?
Mental blinders that the well-off and privileged wear to remain in their little privileged la-la land where everyone CAN do what they love, instead of swabbing other people's feces out of public toilets and such.
Because people of that ilk, the well-off, don't always want to look at what reality is really like, otherwise they might realize how not everyone can do it, how privileged they are. It makes it ever so much easier to ignore the injustices that benefit them and pretend everybody can arrange to do jobs they love.
...*Whew*...
I think that all made sense. Cutting back on the caffeine ATM. Maybe repeating the original article too much.
Still, if you are able to find meaning and enjoyment in what you have to do anyway, this is a good thing.
That did make perfect sense, and was a large part of the gist of the article, I think.
Repeating it too much then.
I have the attention span of a goldfish.
Quote from: Random anger problem on January 26, 2014, 01:09:17 AM
Repeating it too much then.
I have the attention span of a goldfish.
No, I think it's OK, because it seems like a lot of people kind of missed that point.
Quote from: President Television on January 25, 2014, 03:04:09 AM
I agree with Nigel and Roger, and I don't think they're actually contradicting each other if I'm interpreting them correctly. I agree with Roger that it's good to enjoy your work, but I also agree with Nigel that we should neither feel obligated to follow our dreams, nor impose that obligation on others. I think the real enemy here is arbitrary social pressure and shame over details of our lives that ultimately don't hurt anyone else.
I agree entirely with this statement. I think there's been a bit of shouting past each other, here.
Quote from: Random anger problem on January 25, 2014, 06:54:12 AM
...Or worse, in treating the toilet swabbers, butt-wipers, garbage collectors, mess removers, burger-slingers, shelf-stockers and all the other assorted humans who labor at crappy little jobs as if they don't really exist.
Because for some social strata, maybe they don't really exist, you know?
There's no maybe.
I occasionally am forced into dealing with the sort of asshole who thinks owning a Porshe is the first qualifying step to being a human being.
They're as bad as they seem.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 26, 2014, 06:57:48 AM
Quote from: President Television on January 25, 2014, 03:04:09 AM
I agree with Nigel and Roger, and I don't think they're actually contradicting each other if I'm interpreting them correctly. I agree with Roger that it's good to enjoy your work, but I also agree with Nigel that we should neither feel obligated to follow our dreams, nor impose that obligation on others. I think the real enemy here is arbitrary social pressure and shame over details of our lives that ultimately don't hurt anyone else.
I agree entirely with this statement. I think there's been a bit of shouting past each other, here.
Yeah, I think you're right.
At the same time, I also agree with the article in the OP that there is a toxic element to the "DO WHAT YOU LOVE" meme, because it implies that all you need for success is to do what you love, and is fundamentally Calvinist in nature.
To completely miss the point of the article, I am doing what I love.
I just don't get paid for it.
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 27, 2014, 05:41:44 AM
At the same time, I also agree with the article in the OP that there is a toxic element to the "DO WHAT YOU LOVE" meme, because it implies that all you need for success is to do what you love, and is fundamentally Calvinist in nature.
Well, a Calvinist would say that you are doing what you are doing because God willed it to be that way, and that if you don't make shit doing it, then it's because you're not of The Elect, and God is giving all the money to people he likes better than you.
I'd be more interested in the article had teased out the class difference in "doing what you love"/creative careers and others.
Because, I remember back in 2008, in one of the Democratic Party's interminable rounds of blood-letting was the fight between the self-declared "creative classes" - who tended to be more neoliberal in their economics, less concerned with economic injustice, more pro-Obama and more concerned with social issues in comparison with the self-declared working classes, who were highly focused on the economic issues of the campaign, and fell more into the Hillary camp.
I have no way to evaluate those claims in regards to class at the time, except to note those bloggers who did work in better compensated careers (which would seem to fall more under the "do what you love" ethos than, say working retail) were correspondingly much less concerned with economic justice overall.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 27, 2014, 03:27:11 PM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 27, 2014, 05:41:44 AM
At the same time, I also agree with the article in the OP that there is a toxic element to the "DO Some Other Crap YOU LOVE" meme, because it implies that all you need for success is to do what you love, and is fundamentally Calvinist in nature.
Well, a Calvinist would say that you are doing what you are doing because God willed it to be that way, and that if you don't make shit doing it, then it's because you're not of The Elect, and God is giving all the money to people he likes better than you.
Right. In other words, if you're doing what you love and getting paid for it, then you're Doing It Right, and God is rewarding you for Doing It Right, and in fact God knew you were going to Do It Right even before you were born, while those schmucks struggling along in jobs they don't love or not getting paid for shit are just sinners who are going to Hell anyway.