Quote from: Herman Hesse, in SiddharthaAt times he heard within him a soft, gentle voice, which reminded him quietly, complained quietly, so that he could hardly hear it. Then he suddenly saw clearly that he was leading a strange life, that he was doing many things that were only a game, that he was quite cheerful and sometimes experienced pleasure, but that real life was flowing past him and did not touch him. Like a player who plays with his ball, he played with his business, with the people around him, watched them, derived amusement from them; but with his heart, with his real nature, he was not there. His real self wandered elsewhere, far away, wandered on and on invisibly and had nothing to do with his life. He was sometimes afraid of these thoughts and wished that he could also share their childish daily affairs with intensity, truly to take part in them, to enjoy and live their lives instead of only being there as an onlooker.
I suppose it's not really ALL a game, but most of it is. How many things we do every day which amount to nothing much! Get up, go to work, cuss at the stoplights and cops and old pensioners out for a morning drive-and-fuck-up-traffic. Sweat all day, break for lunch, drive home. Every few weeks, get paid. Our ration of food pellets, of time on the big metal wheel, of space to burrow and make a nest in. How much does any of it MEAN?
Well, I'm trying to tie it into the reason we're all here. Not HERE here. Here on this website, talking about this goddess. We're here because even a funny religion gives a sense of purpose. Even just pretending to venerate a cockroach, or a floating clip-art head who smokes a pipe, enriches our lives in some way. See, most of life, obviously, is a big game. Religion is the manifestation of the drive of human beings to try to stop playing the game. To take our ball and go home, and just you wait because I'm telling my big brother on you!
Maybe there's more to it. PROBABLY there's more to it! To play with that pet metaphor a bit more, I sure as hell don't know who's turning my heat-lamp on every day, or who sprinkles that food in my tank. But I'm not GOING to know any of that. I can guess, I can observe, I can make shit up, but until I die and float to the top I'm never going to come in contact with that all-powerful force. It remains as much a mystery today as it did when I was 7 and Santa Claus was still going to visit in a few weeks. I suspect I won't know any more on the day I do go to that big fishbowl in the sky, but hopefully I'll have gotten to eat a lot of really excellent algae and swim through some cool castles. With the sunken chests that open and close, and the lights and skeletons and everything!
My point is that there's very little we do that needs to be done. You need to sleep, shit, and eat. Beyond that isn't really any of your business, but it can be fun. Pissing all over someone else for doing something you don't personally approve of is MORE pointless than how pointless you think what they're doing is! So is taking offense to someone doing so. They're not the ones buying the fish-flakes, it doesn't matter what they think of you. Remember that it's a game, and remember what games are for. EVEN if there is no higher power, and this is all random chance, it's still a game. Hell, in that case it's maybe even moreso, because nothing we do matters at all to anyone!
So, the next time someone gripes about life being meaningless be sure and laugh, if only to yourself. Of course it's meaningless, that's kind of the point. That's what makes it really pretty incredible to get up every morning. You can do what you want, read what you like, sing however loud you want to, and fuck whatever you please.
Just, please. Leave me alone to sit over here and be a huge, flaming hypocrite. And keep your damn fins off my mealworms!
My favorite quote? From a comic book called "Whisper".
"Why kill time if you can kill yourself?"
Just sayin'.
thats also a Caberet Voltaire line too
That might have been where the comic got it, then, Malaul.
Quote from: Llama Wishfart Rinpoche
Of course it's meaningless, that's kind of the point. That's what makes it really pretty incredible to get up every morning. You can do what you want, read what you like, sing however loud you want to, and fuck whatever you please.
Just, please. Leave me alone to sit over here and be a huge, flaming hypocrite. And keep your damn fins off my mealworms!
We can't leave you alone over there by yourself. We're all hypocrites, and that's where the snack bar is!
I have this theory, kind of a play on the whole "life as a school" and "life as God observing our play" theories...
I think that whoever is up there has a bunch of score cards. 20 or 30 dieties, all with great big wonderful shiny score cards. Most people average about a one most of the time. If you brush your teeth really enthusiastically you might get a 2, who knows. But in our coolest moment, we sometimes get as much as an 8 or so. Doesn't matter doing what, it could be religious exploration, or a good hand of poker, an awesome bellyflop, whatever. But in those moments where you suddenly
get it for a second, and it's like a spiritual connection where you can do no wrong and you are part-god or goddess at one with everything, those 8's flash up and God jumps out of his seat and goes "Yeah!" Of course, damn St. Peter never rates higher than a 7.5, but what can you do?
And then some people, VERY rare people get a 10 once in their lives. Like that nun who set herself on fire, fuck yeah she got a 10. That was pretty cool, even for an extremist. And then God jumps up and down screaming "Did you see that? That was awesome!" and then he pulls them back up as soon as he can because obviously they're too influencial for us normals, and we can only handle a taste of them.
Now if you believe that you have to assume that even people like Jack the Ripper might get a 9 or so, because if man has a dual nature then god has a dual nature then man has a dual nature, whatever. And then there are those people like Ted Kaczynski who get a "Man, what happened down there? I really thought you had it, I really thought you'd go far."
Anyway, point is I'm happy if I never get a 10 and fully experience life. If I get a few 8's and throw in some really inspired toothbrushing now and again I'll have lived my life to the fullest (and that includes spiritual exploration, not just mental or physical.)
And then, if I'm really lucky and re-incarnation is true (and please, let it be true!) then I get a second shot at that 10, until I hit it and I can finally go up to that big party/folk music extravaganza in the sky.
Or not, but hey, it's better than what the catholics have set up for us, right? I'll call this other corner for lengthy gibberish now and go stand in it, if you don't mind. :lol:
You know, Hoshi, that might be the closest to the truth I've ever seen anyone get.
I gotta add something about St. Peter, though. Anyone with the balls to see a dude walking on water, say "ME TOO!!!!" and jump out the damn boat is doubleplusgood in my book.
Well then, here's to pulling a few 8's or 9's!
Quote from: Private SnowballYou know, Hoshi, that might be the closest to the truth I've ever seen anyone get.
I gotta add something about St. Peter, though. Anyone with the balls to see a dude walking on water, say "ME TOO!!!!" and jump out the damn boat is doubleplusgood in my book.
Well then, here's to pulling a few 8's or 9's!
9's it shall be! To jumping out of the boat! <raises glass>
Quote from: Llama Wishfart RinpocheYou know, Hoshi, that might be the closest to the truth I've ever seen anyone get.
I gotta add something about St. Peter, though. Anyone with the balls to see a dude walking on water, say "ME TOO!!!!" and jump out the damn boat is doubleplusgood in my book.
Well then, here's to pulling a few 8's or 9's!
Seconded, and seconded.
And that Foamy quote isn't bad either.
I'll just call my corner the shortwinded one, methinks.
Foamy > *
Wow, wisdom. So shiny...
Here's to that 10!
Cheers!
Thanks, I only had to keep Herman Hesse locked up in my closet for 23 days before he told me the theory. The mothball rations helped some, I'm sure.
I kept him in for an extra 4 days anyway, just for fucking with my mind with The Glass Bead Game.
It cost me over $20 in library late fees, too. Do you know how long you have to keep a book to accrue $20? I do. Over a year.
i oncwe got a late fee at library. of cours ei didn;t pay it, cept in flirtation.
it'sa curse or a gift dependijng on how you look at it.
If you got a librarian to take off a fine by flirting then brotha, you earned that cursed gift.
I want to live in a library. I'm thinking of building a library instead of a house and living in it, among the patrons and books. That would be so cool. I would have a staircase off of the religious section that led to nowhere, just the ceiling and wall. I would sit there and read all day, and watch the people try to open the painted door at the top.
I want to live in a diorama. Ooh, or one of them glass globes that snow inside when you shake em!
The very fact that we know about their game, and the fact that we have fun with it have to earn us a few points! Do you think they enjoy us insulting the way others worship them (i.e. jacking-off in prayer, playing see-food with communion, or drinking holy water) get us good points or just piss them off? I have done all of those things and many more, so I would like to know.
It might do both. What's to say that pissing off God can't earn us points at the same time? Some of the most influencial people in this world were pretty damn awful to be around.
Ever meet someone clever and say to yourself "That's guy's a complete asshole! But damn was that funny..."
Now, the trick is to figure out if you're doing something worthwhile and meaningful in some way and amusing or just assholish. Not an easy thing, and people much wiser than us have gotten the two concepts confused.
And remind me not to sit next to you in prayer... Not that I'd go, but yikes.
Also, if you were God, which do you think that you'd appreciate more... The little girl who's making a face at her brother to get him to laugh, or the guy who's silently praying for you to help him with his second car payment?
I'm a little frustrated right now with God stuff. I spent yesterday evening crying and drinking over the death of a man who I knew for three months nearly ten years ago. Because he was one of the Good Guys, you know, the world is a rough place at any age....but high school is worst, I think, because you are least equipped to deal with any of it. But he was there and he had seen it all and he taught me so much.
He taught me that it is perfectly all right to be a hardass if you know you're doing the right thing and you're not a jerk about it. That sometimes you HAVE to take the reins and not listen to the whiners because if it's worth doing, it's worth doing all the way and sometimes that means sacrifice and work, but you'll be so much happier for doing it well and so will the rest of the people involved. That it takes just as much time to think up an excuse for not doing something as it does to actually DO it. That time is a gift you can't waste. That it is ok to ask for help when you're in over your head. And that appearances are deceiving - he was a gruff, bald curmudgeon, and some students feared him because he seemed so tough and mean - but underneath it, he just cared a lot about his students and wanted them to succeed even if he had to push them really, really hard and make them even hate him a little bit. But nobody hated him once they figured that out....because, after all, he was usually right.
Anyway, he died last week, of stomach cancer, when he got the diagnosis they said it was inoperable, but wanted to put him through the chemo and radiation anyway....he said no, he let it take its course and lived the rest of his time on his own terms and last week the time ran out. I never got to thank him for what he did, I always thought there'd be a chance "someday." Now it's gone.
So I've been wondering why. Why there are people who will insist that all I need is some God in my life, and that God does all, sees all, knows all, and loves all, and protects the good and punishes the wicked.
Well, my teacher is dead, and Saddam Hussein is still alive. And Slobodan Milosevic is still alive, and that guy who poisoned Yuschenko, and perhaps Osama bin Laden is still alive, and those are just examples I can think of off the top of my head of wicked people who, by the logic of the faithful, ought to be piles of ash right now.
Because, after all, if you're a good little follower, your God will protect you from bad shit and bad people. Right? Because supposedly this God makes EVERYTHING happen. Everything, down to the hair growing on my head right now, or cancer in an old director's stomach.
So I just gotta wonder why. Why God would let those assholes live, and kill someone who most definitely was NOT an asshole. Or why God took two of this guy's lady friends first, one at a young age and one in her sleep without warning before coming to finish him off. What the hell's up with that?
Or hey, how about this, God, explain why my friend was born into an abusive home where her own sister fed her lye soap as a joke, where her husband beat her, where her own husband didn't believe her when she was raped by one of his coworkers in broad daylight.
And that free will shit - Oh, I don't buy that, because I'm not questioning the stuff people do ON PURPOSE TO EACH OTHER - I'm asking why this God person doesn't step in with his all powerfulness and pop some bad guys to set an example or two, and step up for his people once in a while just to show that there's a reason to believe.
Why do people still believe this guy? How can they, when he lets them hang out to dry when they need him most?
I. Just. Don't. Get. It.
she works in mysterious ways.
I was being serious.
My question is about belief.
I'm very angry with God right now.
so was i.
profound lessons can be found in every aspect of life. good people die while bad people prosper.
she rolls dice.
That I understand, but what I don't understand is how people can still pray with a straight face, and believe that God's gonna keep any kind of promises it makes to them.
Peter: And if you are pure of heart, when you die, you will go to a wonderful place called Heaven. Nah, I'm pulling your leg! You just rot in the ground.
Yet there are still people who think that God is gonna have their back.
I mean, what is the point of faith at all when it's a roll of the dice anyway?
Because everyone's just guessing?
I'm sorry to hear about your friend, Agent. And I also know that there isn't anything I can say to make you feel better, but you definitely have someone sending positive vibes or thoughts or whatever your way.
The world isn't fair, and I guess that some people choose to view that as an absence of God. I don't know if he/she exists or not, and at this point I'm not sweating it. If he does exist than I don't think he can or will interfere. I've never seen evidence of him doing so. I don't think he protects (or harms) people, and the only issue I see that even makes a difference in regards to believing in God or not is the creation/where do we go after we die issue.
I believe in God right now because it's too painful for me to think that friends I have lost before are completely gone, that I'll someday be completely gone. Somehow it helps to think that they're still there somewhere, existing in some way beyond my memory. My mind rebels at the thought of all of this being for nothing, and my instincts do the same.
But I've always pretty much assumed that we're down here on our own, no get out of jail free cards from any religious diety. If God did create life for a reason or purpose, why would he mess it all up by coming down here occasionaly to steer us in the right direction or reward behavior? That doesn't make sense. We die and kill each other for no reason, beyond the fact that we need to do so for life to mean anything.
But if you're looking for a benevolent God who guides us when we need him and prevents us from suffering, no, I don't think that exists. And I think that if you fool yourself or others into believing that it does you're in for a hard crash when you learn otherwise. The people who do believe that, they do so because it helps them in some way to pretend. It doesn't help me, but I don't judge them for soing so. It's their life, and whatever helps to get them through the day is fine by me.
From what I can tell right now, life is there to experience, and it ain't always going to be fun, but look at the alternative. There are wonderful things worth experiencing, like deep friendships and relationships that change you as a person, among other things. Sometimes we don't appreciate those things until they're gone, and that's what makes them valuable.
This isn't to say that I don't believe that God loves us, but there's a time when it's important for people to burn themselves and learn from their mistakes and triumphs, and I think that that's what the world is about. If God exists at all, he/she's an observer.
And therein lies the conundrum: If there's a god, he wouldn't interfere. If he doesn't interfere, how do we know he exists? He exists because we're here. But how do we know that isn't a fluke of nature? etc, etc.
YMMV.
Quote from: agent compassion
I mean, what is the point of faith at all when it's a roll of the dice anyway?
what's the thrill of living if it isn't?
faith isn't measured in what goddess does for you. it's measured in how units of jobe.
Faith in dice is honest faith. After all, when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. Our only hope of happiness in this world is learning to be satisfied with the result, no matter what it is. You may not be able to change what has happened, but you can change the way you look at the event itself.
Our only hope is ourselves; we are our own saviors. How you deal with what is thrown at you tends to effect how the next roll goes. Just because the world is random, that does not mean it is not stable. After all, if randomness was all there was, how exactly has this world not floated away from the sun, and how come I cannot walk through walls? Not all of the world is fun and games, and death is a good example. Yet, there is a certain beauty in it. After all of these years, when I go, all my theories and ideas will be put to the test; my weary mind will have answers. Yes, it will be sad to leave what I once loved, but I walked into life knowing I would walk out of it. Day by day, I ignore death's inevitability. Even still, I will have a final smack in the face to wake me up; I will get that final salute. This is chaotic, and still... it is set in stone. We assume this all must be better than beyond, but isn't that hasty?
Eris may play dice, and she may not. That is the true chaos of her nature! Hell, we don't know what she does. The world is both a mix of random events and stable institutions... and that is true chaos.
QuoteNot all of the world is fun and games, and death is a good example. Yet, there is a certain beauty in it. After all of these years, when I go, all my theories and ideas will be put to the test; my weary mind will have answers. Yes, it will be sad to leave what I once loved, but I walked into life knowing I would walk out of it. Day by day, I ignore death's inevitability. Even still, I will have a final smack in the face to wake me up; I will get that final salute. This is chaotic, and still... it is set in stone. We assume this all must be better than beyond, but isn't that hasty?
That's just beautiful.
I made a promise to myself some years ago that I would open my mind as wide as possible and not sign on for anyone's beliefs in "what comes after" because really, nobody knows, and to quote one of my favorite plays...
Rosencrantz: ,ÄúAnd then again, what is so terrible about death? As Socrates so philosophically put it, since we don,Äôt know what death is, it is illogical to fear it. It might be,Ķvery nice.,Äù
Still, though, it makes my mind warp when I hear people who have such absolute CERTAINTY that there is an activist God who is holding them by the hand, as it were, and is always there, and when they believe that good is rewarded and bad punished, then that means they ALWAYS do and so if someone suffers, the other side of that equation is you suffered, therefore you were bad and deserved it, and well....that's a crock of shit, as far as I'm concerned.
If it were within
Within our power
Beyond the reach
Of slavish pride
To no longer
Harbor grievances
Behind the mask
Opportunists's facade
We could welcome responsibility
Like a long lost friend
And re-establish laughter
In the doll's house once again
For time has imprisoned us
In the order of our years
In the discipline of our ways
And in the passing of momentary stillness
We can see our chaos in motion
Our chaos in motion
We can see our chaos in motion
You are chaos in motion
---
It isn't so much the people who have the faith in an activist God (as Agent described them) that bothers me, its the condescending schmucks who simply prattle off easy phrases to deal with uncomfortable questions (again, such as Agent raised).
"God has a Plan," you say? Then what is it, asshat? I know a guy dying of prostate cancer, who just had to bury his much-younger wife, who died unexpectedly of a stroke. Now he's lost all will to fight, and the most common answers anyone gives him when he asks "Why God does this shit to him" is... as you might expect...
"God has a Plan," or
"She's waiting for you in Heaven."
Yeah, those should really make him feel better about all the pain in his life, as well as bolster his will to fight for life!
My answer: "That sucks, dude. Are you okay? How can I help?"
Maybe if some of these condescending fuckwads would realize that this guy isn't questioning their faith, but mearly looking for solace on this Earthly plane, they could come up with something better than that weak tripe they spew.
Merry Fucking Christmas.
Quote"God has a Plan," you say? Then what is it, asshat? I know a guy dying of prostate cancer, who just had to bury his much-younger wife, who died unexpectedly of a stroke. Now he's lost all will to fight, and the most common answers anyone gives him when he asks "Why God does this shit to him" is... as you might expect...
Yeah.
I mean, Mr. Erickson - the guy I was writing about - he always used to say he'd retire from teaching when they dragged him out of the school, he loved it that much. But then his second partner died(the first had died many years ago) without warning one night. Then a few months later his father died suddenly. Next thing you know, he's retiring, and the people who were close to the situation said that he had just changed....didn't have it in him anymore to teach, it was like all the wind was knocked out of his sails. He quit the school, and a year later, quit the theater he'd spent decades with. And he kinda just faded away. And when he got diagnosed, he didn't fight it, didn't want to go through all that hell and die anyway. I cross my fingers that whatever we find on the other side is something good, but I don't know, and I resent people telling me that THEY know just because they're part of some big religious club that tells them what they want to hear.
well that's teh thing about the plan now aint it?
it's rigth fuct from our perspective, but shit happens.
God needs to be impeached.
To me, things are perfect here. Life is perfect for the human psyche, mostly because it is filled with imperfections. We are like children with a new video game; they play it honestly for a minute or two, and then they urge to cheat. Yet, once they get their easy way out, the game becomes dull. They really wish that they could play the game honestly, but once the easy way has been introduced, there is no turning back for them. God can keep his damn easy way out; I want life to be entertaining, not easy.
In these crazy lives of ours, we experience highs and lows that give everything their proper intensity. We are left to wonder about so many things, but these things are usually what is the most fascinating. If we knew what is beyond death, imagine how hum-drum plays and other artforms would be. There is no cliffhanger in such an unpleasantly certain existence, and every good story tends to have one. Humans are gently placed among countless solar systems and such, and each formation is more beautiful than the last. We are surrounded by so many types of life, that we cannot even estimate how many species we have not discovered. God, in whatever form, is doing just fine in my eyes, but people can think anything they want.
Earth is the playground of philosophers, and I wouldn't want it any different.
QuoteHotsuma: God needs to be impeached.
And convicted. House impeaches, Senate convicts.
[I'm a nerd. Go on, ask me how a bill becomes a law!]
*sigh*
I think horab made one good point there, earlier - that there's a lesson in everything.
I know this year Christmas has had more meaning for me, realizing that people you care about can just disappear without warning. I said to myself, "not again." I mean, he was one of my heroes...heroes dying, that's a strange thing, now I know how the Superman fans felt when Chris Reeve died. :( And so I decided hey, I have someone else that is also a hero to me, that I will tell while I can how I feel. So I wrote him a letter, and made a CD of meaningful songs, and on Monday it gets mailed.
And I did a ritual, in my own impromptu style, to sort of say goodbye to my teacher, but mostly to take all that energy, that grief, and send it on to someone else in my family who needs this lesson too.
He ran from us, because he felt like a victim(goddess only knows why) and he married a woman who hated us all from day one, and she controls him, and he lets her, and as a result we have not seen him in 6 months, or his baby, and he says hateful things to my parents in emails....and he seems to think that he is completely justified and that someday my parents will apologise on bended knee for these imagined wrongs they've committed. I lived in the same house as him, I knew him all his life, and I can say with authority that he was never abused or neglected, but he seems to think he was.
So I took my sorrow and sent it to him on the wind, and said "Little brother, you have to learn that real adults never take other people for granted, and that you think you hate Mom and Dad now, but someday they won't be here, and you'll feel like a real schmuck if you never patch this up with them."
Merry Fucking Christmas, little brother.
I hope he reads the letter then, ac. And actually pays attention to what you're saying.
I didn't write to my little brother - I did a ritual, and hope that the message gets to him.
The letter I wrote was for someone else whose presence changed me, and I'm glad it did, and now that the letter's about to go out I feel like it isn't saying half of what I feel - but I have a feeling that he already knows the things I don't have the guts to say out loud, just based on the way he treated me when he was around...
Christmas came and went, with no sign of my little brother. No surprise there, but honestly, just on a point of practicality I need to get in touch with him, without his "keeper" in the way, because I have a present for his baby, and she's gonna outgrow the bobdamn thing if this impasse goes on too much longer.
:lol:
Good luck with getting in touch then.
And I thought things were strained with my aunt...
Quote from: SheckyIt isn't so much the people who have the faith in an activist God (as Agent described them) that bothers me, its the condescending schmucks who simply prattle off easy phrases to deal with uncomfortable questions (again, such as Agent raised).
"God has a Plan," you say? Then what is it, asshat? I know a guy dying of prostate cancer, who just had to bury his much-younger wife, who died unexpectedly of a stroke. Now he's lost all will to fight, and the most common answers anyone gives him when he asks "Why God does this shit to him" is... as you might expect...
"God has a Plan," or
"She's waiting for you in Heaven."
Yeah, those should really make him feel better about all the pain in his life, as well as bolster his will to fight for life!
My answer: "That sucks, dude. Are you okay? How can I help?"
Maybe if some of these condescending fuckwads would realize that this guy isn't questioning their faith, but mearly looking for solace on this Earthly plane, they could come up with something better than that weak tripe they spew.
Merry Fucking Christmas.
It isn't just the condescension that bothers me. It's that people who do this seem to be using it as an easy out, a way to avoid really caring about and empathizing with the person having a problem. They're hiding behind their ideas about God instead of dealing with what's going on around them. How about we take off the white robes and halos for a bit and put on a damn pair of pants and some boots, and get to work, eh?
Although, I suppose it's not much different from people who spout aphorisms and things they read in books in response to problems, to avoid thinking about them. It's just a different source they're drawing from.
And
AC, it sounds like you're having a really rough time right now. Feel free to get in touch if you want someone to talk to. My IM s/n is in my profile.
Well, I saw my brother today, for about ten seconds. My mom and I decided to try and drop off the presents at his work. He says he's working 70 hours a week, dunno if that is true, but it doesn't matter. He's not going to wake up until he's ready to, and see that his wife is insecure, controlling and passive-aggressive.(How do I know the tricks she plays? I used to play them myself when I was a stupid kid!) Seeing the look on his face, I knew he was the same as ever, hardheaded, and he'll just go the long way as usual, why should that have changed? He doesn't understand that in rebelling against his father, he's playing out the same patterns in a new generation(my grandfather was manipulative and cruel, and my father didn't visit him for years either.)
The letter's sent, that's done with. I hope that goes well...I think it will. :)
QuoteHow about we take off the white robes and halos for a bit and put on a damn pair of pants and some boots, and get to work, eh?
Although, I suppose it's not much different from people who spout aphorisms and things they read in books in response to problems, to avoid thinking about them. It's just a different source they're drawing from.
My father in law's kinda like that. He's always talking about Jesus and stuff to my husband, as if someday my husband's going to just whip up a batch of potato salad and come waltzing back into church one day. He's not. He's independent, he asks questions, the church doesn't like that sort of thing.
He once had a rough patch and sought counseling- his dad said "You don't need counseling, you need Jesus, he can take care of it."
Which is like, ok, for him maybe, but how does he know that the counselor isn't doing his work as a service to humanity, and that it isn't a sacred thing in its own right, to dedicate oneself to healing others in pain? Sounds like just the sort of thing Jesus used to do....right?
But he's a nice person nevertheless, and so I try to be discreet about my own non-Christianness when they're around. I even joined in when he said Grace, though I did this prayer in my head while he was talking:
Hail Eris, full of Grace, Goddess who gets in your face, Holy Queen of Outer Space, Hail Eris, full of Grace.
QuoteAnd AC, it sounds like you're having a really rough time right now. Feel free to get in touch if you want someone to talk to. My IM s/n is in my profile.
I don't have IM, but thanks. :) I feel ... I don't know. It doesn't feel as bad as it did last week, but at the same time, I can't bear to read any more news articles about him(there were several in local papers) just yet. He was one of the people I thought I might see at my HS reunion next year(since some of them have the teachers too). So much for that.
And my brother....well, it hurts my parents a lot more than it hurts me, but at this point, I feel like I'm venting the anger that my mother isn't able to express herself yet. Saying it so she doesn't have to, in a way. And I want to just smack him and say "You think you have it so bad? Do you? You have a home. Your child is healthy. You have food and heat and entertainment and transportation. You have insurance. You have family who cares about you. What the FUCK is wrong with you that you have to look at one little thing and pick at it and pick at it and pick at it until you bleed and then you lick that wound and say 'Oh, I'm such a VICTIM!'"
And then I think, I'm an enormous idiot for letting THIS get to me. Why should it? He's my brother, he's always done things this way, why should I let it ruin my life?
Quote from: agent compassion
My father in law's kinda like that. He's always talking about Jesus and stuff to my husband, as if someday my husband's going to just whip up a batch of potato salad and come waltzing back into church one day. He's not. He's independent, he asks questions, the church doesn't like that sort of thing.
Not the traditional Church, no. There is a growing movement these days called the Emerging Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerging_Church) that is basically all about asking hard questions and finding new ways to worship. You didn't ask about that, but I think it's cool so I mentioned it.
Quote from: agent compassion
But he's a nice person nevertheless, and so I try to be discreet about my own non-Christianness when they're around. I even joined in when he said Grace, though I did this prayer in my head while he was talking:
Hail Eris, full of Grace, Goddess who gets in your face, Holy Queen of Outer Space, Hail Eris, full of Grace.
Now THAT's a good prayer!
Quote from: agent compassion
And my brother....well, it hurts my parents a lot more than it hurts me, but at this point, I feel like I'm venting the anger that my mother isn't able to express herself yet. Saying it so she doesn't have to, in a way. And I want to just smack him and say "You think you have it so bad? Do you? You have a home. Your child is healthy. You have food and heat and entertainment and transportation. You have insurance. You have family who cares about you. What the FUCK is wrong with you that you have to look at one little thing and pick at it and pick at it and pick at it until you bleed and then you lick that wound and say 'Oh, I'm such a VICTIM!'"
And then I think, I'm an enormous idiot for letting THIS get to me. Why should it? He's my brother, he's always done things this way, why should I let it ruin my life?
Why should it get to you? Well, because he's your brother, and you obviously care a great deal about both him and the rest of your family. Can't see anything wrong with that. Having several members of my extended family who have become "black sheep" through the disapproval of the rest of the family, I can tell you that it isn't satisfying for anyone involved. Nothing ever gets resolved, there's nothing but bad feelings all around, and even innocent children become involved in some cases. Much better to suffer some indigestion for your brother now than to lose him forever, I think.
QuoteNot the traditional Church, no. There is a growing movement these days called the Emerging Church that is basically all about asking hard questions and finding new ways to worship. You didn't ask about that, but I think it's cool so I mentioned it.
Ooh...I'll have to tell him about that! He was raised Baptist, hence the frustration, and my 'potato salad' comment. But in the way he thinks and talks about things, he's closer to a Gnostic and he's also exploring Discordianism.
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Why should it get to you? Well, because he's your brother, and you obviously care a great deal about both him and the rest of your family. Can't see anything wrong with that. Having several members of my extended family who have become "black sheep" through the disapproval of the rest of the family, I can tell you that it isn't satisfying for anyone involved. Nothing ever gets resolved, there's nothing but bad feelings all around, and even innocent children become involved in some cases. Much better to suffer some indigestion for your brother now than to lose him forever, I think.
Innocent children, for sure. His baby is 1 and well, she's also the first grandbaby. And if this keeps up....
*sigh* I'm not gonna pretend my brother and I had some idyllic relationship - he's got a severe competitive streak and was always trying to "beat me" at something(I'm the oldest, and he's the second, so - *shrug*). We fought like cats and dogs for a LONG time. But for a few years there, we were getting along pretty good. He had the habit of going into his room and turning up the music really loud when he was pissed off instead of talking to people, but sometimes late at night, he would come and talk to me and tell me all kinds of things.
The thing that's got me head-scratching is this: He has NEVER accepted anyone telling him what to do, or even suggesting it with good intentions, because he HATES being controlled or feeling like he is. So how did he end up with this controlling wife? Weird.
I just don't know what to think anymore. The whole thing is a big tangle. He'll come back, or he won't. He'll wise up that his wife's got some serious issues, or he won't. I feel like he'll come back eventually, when he can convince himself that it's HIS idea to.