Have you guys seen this film? It's fucking brilliant.
QuoteA documentary that challenges former Indonesian death squad leaders to reenact their real-life mass-killings in whichever cinematic genres they wish, including classic Hollywood crime scenarios and lavish musical numbers.
trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQhIRBxbchU
Murder porn. :|
How nice.
BH? Is that you?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on January 23, 2014, 04:53:20 PM
BH? Is that you?
Naw. I ran the silly bastard's IP, and he's a brit.
But he may as well be BH.
It's not really murder porn. It's pretty surreal and an awesome portrait of fucked up morality.
Basically, the USA supported this genocide, because they were paranoid that communism was going to spread in neighbour countries, so everyone who was chinese/communist was murdered and the perpetrators continue to live as heroes today. Still, they haven't exactly managed to amputate their conscience/guilt, which shows in their constant celebration of their deeds as if they are constantly trying to convince themselves that they are heroes and not monsters. Highly recomended.
Throughout the whole movie I was split between crying my eyes out and laughing my ass off.
Quote from: outoftheloop on January 23, 2014, 05:05:16 PM
Throughout the whole movie I was split between crying my eyes out and laughing my ass off.
I think there's a word for that...
Quote from: outoftheloop on January 23, 2014, 05:05:16 PM
Throughout the whole movie I was split between crying my eyes out and laughing my ass off.
that's so sweet.
Quote from: outoftheloop on January 23, 2014, 05:05:16 PM
Throughout the whole movie I was split between crying my eyes out and laughing my ass off.
Yeah, I can see that from the trailer. Horrific scenes of villages burning. Some arshole with a directors beret wandering in and shouting CUT CUT CUT.
This used to be satire. This is the running man, this is the warning that's in Robocop. If it was fictional I would say it's brilliant, but it's not so all I can think of is I can't believe it's come to this.
How long before we start live streaming executions, or having Big Brother Syria edition.
Quote from: Faust on January 23, 2014, 07:17:35 PM
Quote from: outoftheloop on January 23, 2014, 05:05:16 PM
Throughout the whole movie I was split between crying my eyes out and laughing my ass off.
Yeah, I can see that from the trailer. Horrific scenes of villages burning. Some arshole with a directors beret wandering in and shouting CUT CUT CUT.
This used to be satire. This is the running man, this is the warning that's in Robocop. If it was fictional I would say it's brilliant, but it's not so all I can think of is I can't believe it's come to this.
How long before we start live streaming executions, or having Big Brother Syria edition.
Jeesus christ, no one is actually killed/hurt in the movie. Chill the fuck out.
Quote from: outoftheloop on January 23, 2014, 07:28:58 PM
Quote from: Faust on January 23, 2014, 07:17:35 PM
Quote from: outoftheloop on January 23, 2014, 05:05:16 PM
Throughout the whole movie I was split between crying my eyes out and laughing my ass off.
Yeah, I can see that from the trailer. Horrific scenes of villages burning. Some arshole with a directors beret wandering in and shouting CUT CUT CUT.
This used to be satire. This is the running man, this is the warning that's in Robocop. If it was fictional I would say it's brilliant, but it's not so all I can think of is I can't believe it's come to this.
How long before we start live streaming executions, or having Big Brother Syria edition.
Jeesus christ, no one is actually killed/hurt in the movie. Chill the fuck out.
Oh, well that is a relief. It's just softcore murder porn. Awesome.
Quote from: outoftheloop on January 23, 2014, 07:28:58 PM
Quote from: Faust on January 23, 2014, 07:17:35 PM
Quote from: outoftheloop on January 23, 2014, 05:05:16 PM
Throughout the whole movie I was split between crying my eyes out and laughing my ass off.
Yeah, I can see that from the trailer. Horrific scenes of villages burning. Some arshole with a directors beret wandering in and shouting CUT CUT CUT.
This used to be satire. This is the running man, this is the warning that's in Robocop. If it was fictional I would say it's brilliant, but it's not so all I can think of is I can't believe it's come to this.
How long before we start live streaming executions, or having Big Brother Syria edition.
Jeesus christ, no one is actually killed/hurt in the movie. Chill the fuck out.
So it's not snuff, it's simulated snuff.
I, for one, do not need anything to invoke the knowledge of the horrors humans are capable of.
And I think humanity as a whole has had a pretty good idea for decades. We know.
We cannot seem to put end to it, and that seems like a worhwhile goal, but unlikely.
Most likely, as Faust said, Runnin Man.
*hands noob a shovel*
Maybe because it's not a retarded Die Hard action film dumbass. For fuck sakes the children actor's were actually crying. Also the "I stabbed him for being Chinese joke." sets the tone.
Quote from: outoftheloop on January 23, 2014, 04:50:12 PM
Have you guys seen this film? It's fucking brilliant.
QuoteA documentary that challenges former Indonesian death squad leaders to reenact their real-life mass-killings in whichever cinematic genres they wish, including classic Hollywood crime scenarios and lavish musical numbers.
trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQhIRBxbchU
Okay so I managed to jack off to it but I had to keep thinking about tubgirl the whole time. Was hard work. 1/10
The sense I get from the trailer is not that it glorifies these people or their acts, but tries to shine a spotlight on how horrible they are, and bring some of that evil to the surface. Perhaps intensifying the horror by blending it with spectacle.
Honestly I think it looks pretty interesting. I'd be curious if the murderers changed their opinion during the course of the production.
ah, according to the wikipedia article, it had a pretty powerful effect on them
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_of_KillingThe primary subjects in the film, Anwar Congo and Herman Koto, have seen the film and neither feels deceived, according to Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer says that upon watching the film Anwar Congo "started to cry...Tearfully, he told me: 'This is the film I expected. It's an honest film, a true film.' He said he was profoundly moved and will always remain loyal to it".[20] A subsequent interview on Al Jazeera's program "101 East" revealed that Anwar had misgivings about the film and the negative reaction to it in Indonesia, which was causing problems for him. He confided these concerns directly to Oppenheimer in an apparent Skype conversation displayed within the program.
spoilers:
QuoteInvited by Oppenheimer, Anwar and his friends eagerly re-enact the killings for the cameras, and make dramatic scenes depicting their memories and feelings about the killings. The scenes are produced in the style of their favorite film genres: gangster, western, and musical. Various aspects of Anwar and his friends' filmmaking process are shown, but as they begin to dramatize Anwar's own nightmares, the fiction scenes begin to take over the film's form, leading the film to become increasingly surreal and nightmarish. Oppenheimer has called the result "a documentary of the imagination".
While some of Anwar's friends realize that the killings were wrong, others worry about the consequences of the story on their public image. Younger members of Pemuda Pancasila argue that they should boast about the horror of the massacres, because their terrifying and threatening force is the basis of their power today.
After Anwar plays a victim, he cannot continue. He says that he feels what his victims have felt. Oppenheimer, from behind the camera, points out that it was much worse for the victims, because they knew they were going to be killed, whereas Anwar was only acting. Anwar then expresses doubts over whether he has sinned or not, tearfully saying he does not want the memories of what he did to come back to him. He revisits the rooftop where he claims many of his killings took place, and gags repeatedly.
Quote from: outoftheloop on January 23, 2014, 07:28:58 PM
Quote from: Faust on January 23, 2014, 07:17:35 PM
Quote from: outoftheloop on January 23, 2014, 05:05:16 PM
Throughout the whole movie I was split between crying my eyes out and laughing my ass off.
Yeah, I can see that from the trailer. Horrific scenes of villages burning. Some arshole with a directors beret wandering in and shouting CUT CUT CUT.
This used to be satire. This is the running man, this is the warning that's in Robocop. If it was fictional I would say it's brilliant, but it's not so all I can think of is I can't believe it's come to this.
How long before we start live streaming executions, or having Big Brother Syria edition.
Jeesus christ, no one is actually killed/hurt in the movie. Chill the fuck out.
I didn't say anyone was killed making it, no it merely makes circus animals out of the people who do kill people and puts a bunch of pretend victims with the thinly veiled excuse that it's a morality play as opposed to trying to make sensational TV.
Hrm maybe I wasn't clear:
We're not watching a documentary re-enactment of atrocities committed, we're watching reality TV about a killer making a documentary re-enactment of atrocities committed, and THATS what is icky.
It doesn't bother me that much either way. I'm not emotionally invested in whether this exists or not and wouldn't be horrified watching it. I'd be dismayed at what it represents.
Quote from: Cramulus on January 23, 2014, 09:07:45 PM
The sense I get from the trailer is not that it glorifies these people or their acts, but tries to shine a spotlight on how horrible they are, and bring some of that evil to the surface. Perhaps intensifying the horror by blending it with spectacle.
Honestly I think it looks pretty interesting. I'd be curious if the murderers changed their opinion during the course of the production.
ah, according to the wikipedia article, it had a pretty powerful effect on them
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_of_KillingThe primary subjects in the film, Anwar Congo and Herman Koto, have seen the film and neither feels deceived, according to Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer says that upon watching the film Anwar Congo "started to cry...Tearfully, he told me: 'This is the film I expected. It's an honest film, a true film.' He said he was profoundly moved and will always remain loyal to it".[20] A subsequent interview on Al Jazeera's program "101 East" revealed that Anwar had misgivings about the film and the negative reaction to it in Indonesia, which was causing problems for him. He confided these concerns directly to Oppenheimer in an apparent Skype conversation displayed within the program.
Not only highlighting the atrocities, but also making an interesting meta-commentary America's relationship with "cinema" and reality TV vs. actual news reporting.
I agree with the OP that it's brilliant. And horrible. I don't want to watch it, but the impression I get is that it would be nearly impossible for any American to watch it without experiencing some severe cognitive dissonance, and that's not a bad thing.
I watched it a few months ago. It's difficult to describe. Brilliantly made, but still almost unbearable to watch. I don't think any somewhat sane human being would be able to watch it as pure entertainment.
I kinda want to watch it now, knowing that a warlord wretched in the place that he killed people.
As someone who is a staunch pacifist (unless it is a kill or be killed situation, which, really is unnecessary to begin with), I want to see that horror, that realization, that disgust, that repentance.
I want to see this murderer puke in the place where he killed people. I want to see that disgust.
I don't know if I can watch it though. I don't want to feel pathos for people who probably don't deserve my pathos since, well, it's just flat out wrong to kill another human, unless it is to guarantee your survival or the survival of another human, and an irrelevant argument if we would just stop killing each other.
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 04:54:05 AMif we would just stop killing each other.
That's my dream. We'll be a long time getting there, tho. We don't control the situation, yet. Instead we escalate it. Someone does something bad, bad on any level, we retaliate by punishing them with the equivalent level of bad. We do something bad right back. That isn't a good thing, it's twice as bad but that's so counter-intuitive it sounds ridiculous.
Punishment, retaliation, revenge... Makes sense on a - biological agents trying to operate in groups - level but, intellectually, it's so far beyond retarded it doesn't even compute. So until the intellect rules the biology, across the board, I reckon we're stuck in a world of escalating violence and nastiness.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on January 24, 2014, 09:12:58 AM
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 04:54:05 AMif we would just stop killing each other.
That's my dream. We'll be a long time getting there, tho. We don't control the situation, yet. Instead we escalate it. Someone does something bad, bad on any level, we retaliate by punishing them with the equivalent level of bad. We do something bad right back. That isn't a good thing, it's twice as bad but that's so counter-intuitive it sounds ridiculous.
Punishment, retaliation, revenge... Makes sense on a - biological agents trying to operate in groups - level but, intellectually, it's so far beyond retarded it doesn't even compute. So until the intellect rules the biology, across the board, I reckon we're stuck in a world of escalating violence and nastiness.
Humans are biologically programmed to work in tandem.
We just sometimes forget that other groups of humans are also humans. I dunno. Regardless of where my head is, the most sacred thing I can think of is life, because if you take it, it cannot be restored. Or at least not in the same way it was before.
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 09:18:22 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on January 24, 2014, 09:12:58 AM
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 04:54:05 AMif we would just stop killing each other.
That's my dream. We'll be a long time getting there, tho. We don't control the situation, yet. Instead we escalate it. Someone does something bad, bad on any level, we retaliate by punishing them with the equivalent level of bad. We do something bad right back. That isn't a good thing, it's twice as bad but that's so counter-intuitive it sounds ridiculous.
Punishment, retaliation, revenge... Makes sense on a - biological agents trying to operate in groups - level but, intellectually, it's so far beyond retarded it doesn't even compute. So until the intellect rules the biology, across the board, I reckon we're stuck in a world of escalating violence and nastiness.
Humans are biologically programmed to work in tandem.
We just sometimes forget that other groups of humans are also humans. I dunno. Regardless of where my head is, the most sacred thing I can think of is life, because if you take it, it cannot be restored. Or at least not in the same way it was before.
Meh, it is what it is. I'm not one to start a fight but, if I can't get out of one, fuck it, I might as well enjoy it
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 09:18:22 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on January 24, 2014, 09:12:58 AM
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 04:54:05 AMif we would just stop killing each other.
That's my dream. We'll be a long time getting there, tho. We don't control the situation, yet. Instead we escalate it. Someone does something bad, bad on any level, we retaliate by punishing them with the equivalent level of bad. We do something bad right back. That isn't a good thing, it's twice as bad but that's so counter-intuitive it sounds ridiculous.
Punishment, retaliation, revenge... Makes sense on a - biological agents trying to operate in groups - level but, intellectually, it's so far beyond retarded it doesn't even compute. So until the intellect rules the biology, across the board, I reckon we're stuck in a world of escalating violence and nastiness.
Humans are biologically programmed to work in tandem.
We just sometimes forget that other groups of humans are also humans. I dunno. Regardless of where my head is, the most sacred thing I can think of is life, because if you take it, it cannot be restored. Or at least not in the same way it was before.
I've recently heard sacred translated as 'set apart', so if life is sacred then death is even more sacred because that is apart from both living and rocks. It is one step more removed.
The Eisenhower films showed us what we needed to know about genocide. After that, it's just porn for weirdos.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 24, 2014, 04:15:30 PM
The Eisenhower films showed us what we needed to know about genocide. After that, it's just porn for weirdos.
Except that this is designed to get regular Americans to actually watch it. It's aimed at the people who have no idea the Eisenhower films even exist.
Fuck it, I'm going to take one for the team and actually watch the thing. Not even watched the trailer so I'm going in blind beyond this thread.
I'll promise an honest opinion, for what that is actually worth.
Quote from: Junkenstein on January 24, 2014, 07:35:52 PM
Fuck it, I'm going to take one for the team and actually watch the thing. Not even watched the trailer so I'm going in blind beyond this thread.
I'll promise an honest opinion, for what that is actually worth.
Ditto, but i only promise to watch 15 minutes and we'll see.
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 04:54:05 AM
I kinda want to watch it now, knowing that a warlord wretched in the place that he killed people.
As someone who is a staunch pacifist (unless it is a kill or be killed situation, which, really is unnecessary to begin with), I want to see that horror, that realization, that disgust, that repentance.
I want to see this murderer puke in the place where he killed people. I want to see that disgust.
I don't know if I can watch it though. I don't want to feel pathos for people who probably don't deserve my pathos since, well, it's just flat out wrong to kill another human, unless it is to guarantee your survival or the survival of another human, and an irrelevant argument if we would just stop killing each other.
I dunno, I think recognizing the humanity in monsters helps us to see why those sort of things happen, and that helps us keep them from happening.
It also sounds like this project brought home for these particular monsters some of what they did.
Quote from: Pergamos on January 24, 2014, 09:23:51 PM
Quote from: THE PHYTOPHTHORATIC HOLDER OF THE ADVANCED DEGREE on January 24, 2014, 04:54:05 AM
I kinda want to watch it now, knowing that a warlord wretched in the place that he killed people.
As someone who is a staunch pacifist (unless it is a kill or be killed situation, which, really is unnecessary to begin with), I want to see that horror, that realization, that disgust, that repentance.
I want to see this murderer puke in the place where he killed people. I want to see that disgust.
I don't know if I can watch it though. I don't want to feel pathos for people who probably don't deserve my pathos since, well, it's just flat out wrong to kill another human, unless it is to guarantee your survival or the survival of another human, and an irrelevant argument if we would just stop killing each other.
I dunno, I think recognizing the humanity in monsters helps us to see why those sort of things happen, and that helps us keep them from happening.
It also sounds like this project brought home for these particular monsters some of what they did.
Not sure that's even worth mentioning. I'm normally all about redemption.
Genocide/ethnic cleansing is an exception to that.
Holy shit.
I'll start with the fact the this film should really be subtitled "Indonesia is fucked up" for reasons which shall become shortly apparent. Disjointed, just finished watching ramblings to follow.
The film follows and focuses on Anwar Congo and erstwhile literal partner in crime on their mission to make a film commemorating the 1965/66 extermination of communists and reasons why this was necessary, though apparently regrettable. Many people who they meet on their journey and indeed, they themselves are murderers at best and key parts of horrific genocidal acts by their own claims. None involved have ever faced any kind of punishment. Needless to say, this film took BALLS to make.
Anwar's resulting film could most kindly be described as avant-what-the-fuck and more accurately as absolutely sock-fucking insane. It is clear by the casual conversations during the making of process that he's pretty far fucking gone. There's a slab of the banality of evil over much of the film. Parts with extreme (simulated) violence feature more heavily towards the end but are interspersed throughout. These tend to fall into two categories which I'll discuss in a moment, re enactments and "time tunnel" scenes. Anwar has watched a lot of Hollywood movies and understood about 3% of what was happening in each and they've all got shoved together here somewhere. Terminator? Pans Labyrinth? Sort of rip off of an African myth (I think. Not sure, but it seemed familiar somehow) all make a kind of appearance and it's odd. Very odd. Anyway, as the fucked up plot ploughs on, the documentary side kicks in and you meet life in indonesia and get a glimpse into the inner workings of the pancasila youth.
The pancasila youth are not exactly friendly fellows, and are essentially a right wing paramilitary organisation who quite proudly and openly refer to themselves as gangsters, thugs, politicians and robbers, often in the same sentence as equating these things with freedom. Apparently the word "Gangster" means "Freedom". In what language or why is never specified but it's pretty clear that this is a chant that 3 million members are pushing. Casual extortion, reminiscence of child rape and abuse and a general lust and acceptance for all kinds of violence feature heavily here. Needless to say, some of this is certainly not easy watching. Some are much more PR concious than others which makes for some interesting on the spot justifications for such acts. The filmaker is largely silent so I can only assume much of this was unprompted. Cain, I think you'd probably be interested in these sections, doubt there's anything new and shocking to you but the openness is startling. Trigger warnings out the ass, obviously.
A minor detour as Herman tries his hand at politics features once he realises how many neighbourhoods he would be able to control and thus extort feature. It's no shock when he fails miserably as he is unable to bribe anywhere near the required votes.
There's two final areas of interest, which are the interactions between the younger members and the older when the history of events is explained. The other is Anwar's actual film.
By the way, no big tears and show of regret, at best a couple of minutes retching. But the guy clearly has huge mental problems on top of being a genocidal fuckwit so all you really want for everyone involved is the noose. Seriously, I'm VERY anti-death penalty but a group who are able to live in relative luxury on the back of such acts sickens me beyond belief. It's genuinely heartbreaking and I hope they all hang together in short order. I need this to be very clear, there is NO doubt of massive, massively varied guilt.
There is some hope in the younger members of the Pancasila Youth and a few were clearly visibly disturbed by things seen and heard. A shot of the newsroom during a publicity broadcast was probably the best example of this. The robotic newsreader was clearly unprepared for Anwar, Maniac, Murderer and now filmstar and director of his own Ben Hur.
The film is less a film and more mash of random scenes Anwar and Herman wrote at 3AM while on massive quantities of crack and bleach fumes. There is a song and dance number, for some reason. Anwar undergoes torture at the hands of some kind of representations of the people he has killed and communists. But this happens in a time tunnel so don't worry about it guy, here's some torture, interrogation, murder and massacre scenes acted out in one case by the son of communist. This is a point when I had to genuinely worry for a moment about Anwar getting carried away in a scene. In general, Scenes Anwar features in, which is most, he acts exactly like the interrogator or victim would act. It's abundantly clear that he's been in these situation many times, as has have his co-stars and they all know exactly how the dance goes. The interjections and techniques taken straight from Hollywood and probably, at some point along the way, a 3 letter agency.
These scenes, while violent, I would suggest are relatively comparable to a gore-heavy horror movie. Like early Peter Jackson shit. Anwar hasn't got a big budget or a lot of good ways/reason/help to tell him why exactly all the communists had to die so the end production is unknown to me, various "finished" scenes are shown throughout but I doubt it's worth the electricity involved to make it. It won't be an Oscar nominee, I'll promise you that.
Two final points, The film is 2:40 and subtitled throughout. Odd parts are in English but that's fair warning so you know what you're getting into. Finally, Cognitive dissonance? All over the show, everyone and in pretty much everything. Various degrees of awareness and such so it's probably an excellent film to try and get people to sit through. Unfortunately it's nearly 3 hours long and subtitled so I doubt it'll really get the audience I can say it deserves. A cut without Anwar's film scenes might do fairly well, but I still doubt it. Little here is easy watching and any attempted comic relief is quickly interrupted with something loathsome.
Blah, i watched the trailer and that's quite enough, conclusions:
Murder-porn mixed with morbid kitsch mixed with an undetermined ammount of serious documentary.
I mean, it seems like it has some good content, but going thru the rest is creepy.
For the people using the term "murder porn", what exactly do you mean by that?
Also, it would seem that you would also call any movie that depicts murder as "murder porn" as well, is this correct? If not, why is say, Schindler's List not "murder porn" if this film is?
Quote from: Net on January 26, 2014, 12:01:56 AM
For the people using the term "murder porn", what exactly do you mean by that?
Also, it would seem that you would also call any movie that depicts murder as "murder porn" as well, is this correct? If not, why is say, Schindler's List not "murder porn" if this film is?
I'm interested by that too.
I don't entirely understand the rather knee-jerky-seeming dismissiveness that this film is receiving. It's almost like it's making people uncomfortable, and rather than examine the discomfort, they are responding with NO IT IS NOTHING GO AWAY STOP LOOKING.
I will admit that was my reaction.
Sorry about that, yo.
Quote from: Net on January 26, 2014, 12:01:56 AM
For the people using the term "murder porn", what exactly do you mean by that?
Also, it would seem that you would also call any movie that depicts murder as "murder porn" as well, is this correct? If not, why is say, Schindler's List not "murder porn" if this film is?
It's not murder porn. It's reality TV of a documentary where the people making it, actors playing victims, warlords playing directors are the assets to be leveraged.
Murder porn isn't anywhere near as exploitative as what I'm seeing.
Quote from: Faust on January 26, 2014, 12:32:24 AM
Quote from: Net on January 26, 2014, 12:01:56 AM
For the people using the term "murder porn", what exactly do you mean by that?
Also, it would seem that you would also call any movie that depicts murder as "murder porn" as well, is this correct? If not, why is say, Schindler's List not "murder porn" if this film is?
It's not murder porn. It's reality TV of a documentary where the people making it, actors playing victims, warlords playing directors are the assets to be leveraged.
Murder porn isn't anywhere near as exploitative as what I'm seeing.
I still don't know what you mean by "murder porn".
"Saw", "The Hills Have Eyes", etc
Quote from: Telarus on January 26, 2014, 01:24:25 AM
"Saw", "The Hills Have Eyes", etc
So, films that are full of graphic murder for the sake of entertainment—in that capacity, I could see "murder porn" as a fitting descriptor.
I haven't watched the film in the OP, but from what I've gathered, it seems to have a point to educate, not entertain.
This was certainly interesting: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/the-act-of-killing-oscar-nomination-for-what-must-be-the-bravest-film-crew-of-the-year--but-no-one-knows-their-names-9073035.html
Quote from: Net on January 26, 2014, 01:29:40 AM
Quote from: Telarus on January 26, 2014, 01:24:25 AM
"Saw", "The Hills Have Eyes", etc
So, films that are full of graphic murder for the sake of entertainment—in that capacity, I could see "murder porn" as a fitting descriptor.
I haven't watched the film in the OP, but from what I've gathered, it seems to have a point to educate, not entertain.
There is no reasonable way to class this as murder porn. While there are graphic scenes, these are not the core of the film for me, they serve more as a way to highlight the various ways Anwar and co are FUCKED UP.
My objection is not to "murder porn".
My objection is twofold:
1) most murderers, especially politically motivated ones, are very boring people, with impoverished imaginations and even worse understanding of why they did what they did. They'll weasle around it and try to justify it with reference to some kind of ideology or moral code, which they usually have a poor grasp on in the first place, but given a platform to discuss their activities in any way, they will endlessly self-propagandize to a degree that would make Kim Jong-Il blush. I do not require a film to know this.
2) the OP is a fuckwit.
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 26, 2014, 01:56:33 AM
This was certainly interesting: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/features/the-act-of-killing-oscar-nomination-for-what-must-be-the-bravest-film-crew-of-the-year--but-no-one-knows-their-names-9073035.html
QuoteUnfortunately, the bombshell it drops on Indonesia has prevented it from reaching a much bigger audience in neighbouring countries as Asean (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) members tend to give politically sensitive issues a wide berth.
"Distributors in South-east Asia did not think the film would pass censors... Asean countries with close ties to Indonesia do not want to anger their counterpart or encourage their own citizens to dig deeper into their own histories," says Lorna Tee, a Hong Kong-based film producer.
There's something rather disturbing about distributors acting as a de facto censorship office. It's even worse when these neighbouring countries probably have better reason than many to dig a little deeper into their histories.
Cain, I'd suggest the main area of interest for you here are the interaction between the Panacasila Youth and various people. Footage of this nature is about 1/3 of the overall film and goes into the machine behind the killings. Newspapermen are met as well as PC youth leaders.
Anwar never really tries to justify his acts through a moral code or even ideology. He did it because he was a gangster and that's what gangsters do.
He may never have verbally justified himself, but I think you'll find if you look at the films and scenarios he chooses, that this is quite revealing. (Also consider the cultural aspect. I don't know much about Indonesian culture and I would guess most people here don't. That lack of familiarity can strongly affect how non-verbal cues are processed).
It's a common human trait to see yourself as both the center of the story and the hero. Very few people are able to look past those filters...especially with that amount of blood on them.
Obviously, I'm no expert but the film choices and scenarios seemed to be more based around "What does Anwar remember being really cool in Hollywood films?" Many of his killing methods were reputedly taken from films which adds actually adds an interesting layer to the violence in Hollywood debate. If people in other countries emulate your graphic murder methods, to what degree, if any, are you responsible?
I fully appreciate the non-verbal cues thing, but there's some that just go past cultures to some degree. I may have misinterpreted some, but there's just too many and the emotion is often obvious.
I suspect Anwar to be a man who picked up the uniform of "Gangster" early from films (To begin with he was a "Movie gangster, selling black market movie tickets to the public) and had this view re-enforced over several years of murder.
If I could tempt you into watching/reviewing, I think you'd pull a lot more out of it than I have.
Well, you're certainly responsible to the extent that you support the killing, which the US did.