If you're having a miscarriage, the hospitals "will not have to participate in an activity that ends your pregnancy".
https://www.aclu.org/blog/reproductive-freedom-womens-rights/alabama-hospitals-pregnant-women-sorry-honey-we-wont-help
No shit.
QuoteAll miscarriages can be devastating. But, for women in Alabama, this nightmare could soon get a lot worse. This week, the Alabama Senate is set to consider a cruel bill (HB 31) that would permit the hospital staff, including any doctor, nurse, counselor, or lab technician, to refuse to participate in any phase of patient medical care related to ending a pregnancy, even if that is what a patient like this woman needs to protect her own health and future fertility
But wait! Couldn't a doctor or hospital get sued?
QuoteThe bill would also protect health care professionals from liability for refusing to provide necessary medical care. What's more, the bill would exempt the hospital from liability under Alabama law. This means that even if the hospitals know that the on-duty doctor won't provide appropriate medical care, Alabama law says that in most cases they have no obligation to find someone who will.
Bolding mine.
The original bill is here:
http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/searchableinstruments/2014RS/Printfiles//HB31-eng.pdf
Oh, and the representatives that wrote it?
Becky Nordgren
http://www.legislature.state.al.us/house/representatives/housebios/hd029.html
April Weaver
http://www.legislature.state.al.us/house/representatives/housebios/hd049.html
Because how DARE a woman's body reject a fetus for a multitude of reasons. Auto-abortion!
Quote from: The Suu on January 30, 2014, 04:50:07 PM
Because how DARE a woman's body reject a fetus for a multitude of reasons. Auto-abortion!
The bill was written by two women that are of age to enjoy it's "benefits".
This country is functionally insane.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 30, 2014, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: The Suu on January 30, 2014, 04:50:07 PM
Because how DARE a woman's body reject a fetus for a multitude of reasons. Auto-abortion!
The bill was written by two women that are of age to enjoy it's "benefits".
This country is functionally insane.
They've got political connections. If they miscarry, they'll get treated. If they want fifty abortions, they'll get them.
Laws are for everybody else.
O.O That is so fucked up. I can't even.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 30, 2014, 05:35:56 PM
O.O That is so fucked up. I can't even.
They all have to out-crazy each other now.
This is the NEW America they're ushering in.
GOD BLESS AMURKA!
Why should they give a fuck? They can fly anywhere they want and get whatever they need.
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on January 30, 2014, 09:05:52 PM
Why should they give a fuck? They can fly anywhere they want and get whatever they need.
No, these are state level congressmen. They make less than I do.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 30, 2014, 09:11:01 PM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on January 30, 2014, 09:05:52 PM
Why should they give a fuck? They can fly anywhere they want and get whatever they need.
No, these are state level congressmen. They make less than I do.
They just like greasing the gears of the great machine with meat.
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 30, 2014, 09:36:25 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 30, 2014, 09:11:01 PM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on January 30, 2014, 09:05:52 PM
Why should they give a fuck? They can fly anywhere they want and get whatever they need.
No, these are state level congressmen. They make less than I do.
They just like greasing the gears of the great machine with meat.
See, this is the one option that most people won't consider.
Maybe people like this are just, you know,
bad people.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 30, 2014, 09:37:48 PM
Quote from: Cardinal Pizza Deliverance. on January 30, 2014, 09:36:25 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 30, 2014, 09:11:01 PM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on January 30, 2014, 09:05:52 PM
Why should they give a fuck? They can fly anywhere they want and get whatever they need.
No, these are state level congressmen. They make less than I do.
They just like greasing the gears of the great machine with meat.
See, this is the one option that most people won't consider.
Maybe people like this are just, you know, bad people.
Only, they don't see themselves as the villain. They see themselves as doing the right thing. The Greater Good
TM.
Most doctors are more rational then this bill. There is nothing stating that they can't help. I would be surprised to see a single case of someone not getting treatment for a miscarriage due to this bill, even in Alabama.
Also this bill is unlikely to pass.
Insane bills get proposed all the time. People get elected on insane platforms and they write bills that go nowhere. Not saying I have hope for the country or the legislative system but most things this horrendous that get through the state house get stopped or overturned.
Quote from: Penumbral on January 30, 2014, 10:07:13 PM
Most doctors are more rational then this bill. There is nothing stating that they can't help. I would be surprised to see a single case of someone not getting treatment for a miscarriage due to this bill, even in Alabama.
Dude... you are dealing with humans. It is not a spectrum between good and bad, it is between bad and worse. Remember Dresden? Yeah those were the good guys.
Quote from: Penumbral on January 30, 2014, 10:07:13 PM
Most doctors are more rational then this bill. There is nothing stating that they can't help. I would be surprised to see a single case of someone not getting treatment for a miscarriage due to this bill, even in Alabama.
What the fuck are you smoking?
QuoteAlso this bill is unlikely to pass.
What the fuck are you smoking?
QuoteInsane bills get proposed all the time. People get elected on insane platforms and they write bills that go nowhere. Not saying I have hope for the country or the legislative system but most things this horrendous that get through the state house get stopped or overturned.
Overturned, you say? After only how many women die in the period between it becoming a law, and then staggering through the courts?
And I have to laugh at this point, Penumbral, at the very idea of you lecturing me on politics and how fucking weird middle America can get. I am sorry if you have recently converted to republicanism and are thus butthurt or something, but WEIRDER BILLS THAN THIS GET PASSED EVERY FUCKING DAY.
Not that I expect a response, of course. At least not for several months or years.
Quote from: Penumbral on January 30, 2014, 10:07:13 PM
Most doctors are more rational then this bill. There is nothing stating that they can't help. I would be surprised to see a single case of someone not getting treatment for a miscarriage due to this bill, even in Alabama.
Also this bill is unlikely to pass.
Insane bills get proposed all the time. People get elected on insane platforms and they write bills that go nowhere. Not saying I have hope for the country or the legislative system but most things this horrendous that get through the state house get stopped or overturned.
Seems like this bill probably flies directly in the face of State medical licensing, too.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 30, 2014, 10:27:11 PM
And I have to laugh at this point, Penumbral, at the very idea of you lecturing me on politics and how fucking weird middle America can get. I am sorry if you have recently converted to republicanism and are thus butthurt or something, but WEIRDER BILLS THAN THIS GET PASSED EVERY FUCKING DAY.
Not at all meant as a lecture. Just opinions. I personally don't think this bill will result in the deaths of any people, I am not trying to defend it or the people who wrote it.
Something like this has a lot more walls to run into, and I guess that I have hope that one of those walls might have some rationality to it. As you said maybe some people are just bad people. I, however, think that chain of ethically deficient people isn't strong enough in this case.
Quote from: Penumbral on January 30, 2014, 10:54:53 PM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 30, 2014, 10:27:11 PM
And I have to laugh at this point, Penumbral, at the very idea of you lecturing me on politics and how fucking weird middle America can get. I am sorry if you have recently converted to republicanism and are thus butthurt or something, but WEIRDER BILLS THAN THIS GET PASSED EVERY FUCKING DAY.
Not at all meant as a lecture. Just opinions. I personally don't think this bill will result in the deaths of any people, I am not trying to defend it or the people who wrote it.
Something like this has a lot more walls to run into, and I guess that I have hope that one of those walls might have some rationality to it. As you said maybe some people are just bad people. I, however, think that chain of ethically deficient people isn't strong enough in this case.
What country are you in, again?
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 30, 2014, 10:30:19 PM
Quote from: Penumbral on January 30, 2014, 10:07:13 PM
Most doctors are more rational then this bill. There is nothing stating that they can't help. I would be surprised to see a single case of someone not getting treatment for a miscarriage due to this bill, even in Alabama.
Also this bill is unlikely to pass.
Insane bills get proposed all the time. People get elected on insane platforms and they write bills that go nowhere. Not saying I have hope for the country or the legislative system but most things this horrendous that get through the state house get stopped or overturned.
Seems like this bill probably flies directly in the face of State medical licensing, too.
This is the year of the Yahoo, Nigel. There is no limit.
Mark my words.
I'm more inclined to go with "century of the Yahoo".
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on January 30, 2014, 11:30:12 PM
I'm more inclined to go with "century of the Yahoo".
Trust me...The next 9 months are going to be fucking insane.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 30, 2014, 11:34:58 PM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on January 30, 2014, 11:30:12 PM
I'm more inclined to go with "century of the Yahoo".
Trust me...The next 9 months are going to be fucking insane.
Maybe the shit will get bad enough to just implode everything.
I'm just a regular Pollyanna today.
Yeah, I gotta agree with Penumbral on this one. Hard to see the sky falling over a couple of hillbilly chuckleheads introducing a clearly illegal bill.
Quote from: Penumbral on January 30, 2014, 10:07:13 PM
Most doctors are more rational then this bill.
This is Alabama we are talking about.
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/article/20131218/PROGRESS03/312180013/Editorial-Governor-s-refusal-expand-medicaid-makes-no-sense
Governor Robert Bentley refused Medicaid expansion money. Is a retired doctor.
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on January 30, 2014, 11:42:09 PM
Yeah, I gotta agree with Penumbral on this one. Hard to see the sky falling over a couple of hillbilly chuckleheads introducing a clearly illegal bill.
Doesn't matter. The premise is bullshit. I just reread the bill.
It's the era of clickbait. EVERYTHING is clickbait, these days.
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 31, 2014, 04:16:49 AM
It's the era of clickbait. EVERYTHING is clickbait, these days.
That explains SO MUCH.
Fuck.
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 30, 2014, 11:34:58 PM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on January 30, 2014, 11:30:12 PM
I'm more inclined to go with "century of the Yahoo".
Trust me...The next 9 months are going to be fucking insane.
For unspeakable reasons i read that "within 9months things are going to be insane" and i imagined something like Joe Biden pregnant with the republican Chosen One
tm (a talking baby elephant).
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on January 31, 2014, 06:28:28 AM
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 31, 2014, 04:16:49 AM
It's the era of clickbait. EVERYTHING is clickbait, these days.
That explains SO MUCH.
Fuck.
It does. Clickbait is the fuel which fires the Twitter storm (http://fredrikdeboer.com/2014/01/22/smarm-and-the-mob/#rssowlmlink) which gains "opinion makers" social currency (http://www.smh.com.au/comment/social-media-leads-us-to-a-new-level-of-hyperbole-20131223-2zua4.html) which allows them to obtain an audience, for whom they will write clickbait to....
Quote from: Nigel's Red Velveteen Skinmeat Snacks on January 31, 2014, 04:16:49 AM
It's the era of clickbait. EVERYTHING is clickbait, these days.
Yes, well, in this case I felt like I just watched Paul Bunyan beat up his wife or some shit. That was the ACLU, after all, and they've always been pretty damn careful with their reputation for avoiding sensationalism (mostly because of what their primary purpose is).
So you read that article, and you go all ragey. Except for Binks (Bearman's more-or-less sister in law), who pointed out the following piece from the bill itself:
Quote(4) HEALTH CARE SERVICE. Any phase of patient
4 medical care, treatment or procedure that is limited to
5 abortion, human cloning, human embryonic stem cell research,
6 and sterilization, and is related to: Patient referrals,
7 counseling, therapy, testing, diagnosis or prognosis,
8 research, instruction, prescribing, dispensing or
9 administering any device, drug, or medication, surgery, or any
10 other care or treatment rendered or provided by health care
11 providers.
But it ALSO says:
Quote(b) No health care provider shall be civilly,
12 criminally, or administratively liable for declining to
13 participate in a health care service that violates his or her
14 conscience except when failure to do would immediately
15 endanger the life of a patient.
AND
Quote(d) Notwithstanding any other provision in this act,
4 in a life-threatening situation where no other health care
5 provider is available or capable of providing or participating
6 in a health care service, a health care provider shall provide
7 and participate in treatment, care, or procedures until an
8 alternate health care provider capable of providing or
9 participating in the emergency treatment, care, or procedures
10 is found or otherwise becomes available.
AND EVEN
QuoteSection 7. The provisions of this act shall not
9 apply to health care institutions or employers who are
10 licensed by the State of Board of Health as abortion clinics.
So, what's the takeaway from all this? I forgot the DNT rule, and listened, uncritically, to a source. Doesn't matter what source, because you can't trust anyone for shit when it comes to the news. Fortunately, Binks was there to put me on the straight and narrow, and not by saying people wouldn't be crazy enough to pass insane laws, but by pointing out that a 5 minute read would have demonstrated that this bill - while it may be bullshit - isn't batshit.
So, scratch the ACLU. That sucks.
Quote from: The Johnny on January 31, 2014, 10:10:10 AM
Quote from: Dirty Old Uncle Roger on January 30, 2014, 11:34:58 PM
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on January 30, 2014, 11:30:12 PM
I'm more inclined to go with "century of the Yahoo".
Trust me...The next 9 months are going to be fucking insane.
For unspeakable reasons i read that "within 9months things are going to be insane" and i imagined something like Joe Biden pregnant with the republican Chosen Onetm (a talking baby elephant).
Why would Joe Biden have a republican baby? :?
That is pretty bad. I expected better from the ACLU myself.
I'm sure I remember reading something about there being some strange turns in the ACLU's leadership of late, but since I read so much these days, I cannot remember exactly what. I remember being unimpressed if it were true, but without the time to follow it up.
Quote from: Cain on January 31, 2014, 02:04:34 PM
That is pretty bad. I expected better from the ACLU myself.
I'm sure I remember reading something about there being some strange turns in the ACLU's leadership of late, but since I read so much these days, I cannot remember exactly what. I remember being unimpressed if it were true, but without the time to follow it up.
Well, they went straight from integrity to The Daily Mail without passing go.
Ah, that was it: Wendy Kaminer, who was on the board of the Massachusetts ACLU board, resigned a few years back, claiming that Anthony Romero, the executive director of the ACLU, was becoming a control freak, and was far more interested in using his position in a political manner than to support civil liberties. She believes the ACLU is on a trajectory to become just another liberal interest group, reliably supporting liberal interests and letting civil liberties go by the wayside if the people in question have the wrong values.
Quote from: Cain on January 31, 2014, 02:18:51 PM
Ah, that was it: Wendy Kaminer, who was on the board of the Massachusetts ACLU board, resigned a few years back, claiming that Anthony Romero, the executive director of the ACLU, was becoming a control freak, and was far more interested in using his position in a political manner than to support civil liberties. She believes the ACLU is on a trajectory to become just another liberal interest group, reliably supporting liberal interests and letting civil liberties go by the wayside if the people in question have the wrong values.
Well, she was apparently correct.
:x :x :x