Hey, can anyone tell me if any for-profit prisons or their chief holding companies/subsidiaries have significant investments in the music industry, in particular with labels responsible for most mainstream hiphop since 1990 or so?
I heard an...interesting rumour...regarding this. However, the source itself did not inspire confidence, even if the story made a certain amount of sense. If a link could be confirmed, I'd be willing to look into it further.
I'd be interested in learning about this too, but I have no idea how to go about finding out.
You mean Death Row Records? But thats a different thing altogether.
Here's the original letter:
http://www.hiphopisread.com/2012/04/secret-meeting-that-changed-rap-music.html
Yeah. I don't really trust that letter, so I'd like some confirming evidence for what he is saying.
Here's an interesting look at it. The author is skeptical, but concedes that it remains possible. He then looks at the actual songs on charts and incarceration rates.
http://www.normschriever.com/2/post/2013/03/dont-believe-the-hype-a-counterpoint-to-the-secret-meeting-that-changed-rap-story.html
Smells like conspiracy-theory to me. It's gone viral so it's served it's purpose. Ordinary Joe is now asking questions about US prison farming which is a real thing, supported by shady fuckers pulling strings in high places.
Is it credible? Credible enough for me to convince a bunch of folks it's true - that's good enough for me :evil:
Quote from: Telarus on February 13, 2014, 07:24:57 PM
Here's an interesting look at it. The author is skeptical, but concedes that it remains possible. He then looks at the actual songs on charts and incarceration rates.
http://www.normschriever.com/2/post/2013/03/dont-believe-the-hype-a-counterpoint-to-the-secret-meeting-that-changed-rap-story.html
Yeah, he flagged the same problems I had with the theory - the inconsistent use of English, a lot of details given away and the ahistorical timeline.
Still, it did make me wonder if there was anything in the claims, even if his particular story was bullshit.
Quote from: Cain on February 13, 2014, 07:37:53 PM
Yeah, he flagged the same problems I had with the theory - the inconsistent use of English, a lot of details given away and the ahistorical timeline.
Still, it did make me wonder if there was anything in the claims, even if his particular story was bullshit.
I agree, really makes you wonder...
Also, to follow-up on P3nT's post... This seems like a meme designed to spread in, for example... Juggalo Facebook groups?
Posted on fuckbook. See if I get any nibbles... :lulz:
Gangster rap was around way before 91. And it never dominated the charts, unless you consider shit like Ja Rule or Puffy to be "gangster".
3/10. Which is, apparently, enough these days.
This is snot-blowingly laughable to anyone with a rudimentary understanding of the history and pervasiveness of systemic racism in America.
Well, except to black people. I expect they find shit like this infuriating. And they should.
Well I'm sorry I wanted to see if any bit of validity could be wrung from this.
Obviously I should just rely on first impressions in the future.
Not to say I'd bet against entertainment and private prisons having some financial and corporate intermingling somewhere. But it's a huge paternalizing leap from that to "the negroes are acting up because of the hippity-hop on the radios!".
Quote from: Cain on February 13, 2014, 08:19:18 PM
Well I'm sorry I wanted to see if any bit of validity could be wrung from this.
Obviously I should just rely on first impressions in the future.
Uhh, it's a criticism of the letter, dude, not of you.
I know at least one black person who agrees with this conspiracy theory. This is a guy who owns a security company that works mostly for music venues.
If it is true, I highly doubt it ever involved prison industry gangstas marching in to a boardroom with suitcases full of money. It was probably just some asshole in accounting noticed that "whenever we throw money down this hole, more money comes out this other hole over here."
I think if they want it to be effective, they should encourage not only the commission of high penalty crimes, but also being sloppy about it and easy to catch. I'm not personally familiar with the gangsta raps, so I don['t know if it does that or not.
I suspect music in general, at least the stuff that charts, has some weird shit going on behind the scenes.
Maybe not THIS, but something similar.
Look at contemporary so-called country: Women singing about making the men marry them and behave even if it takes vandalism, kidnapping and/or murder. And the guy songs are mostly about trucks and beer, but without what Roger called "the underbelly of the american dream", IIRC. Just "work your ass off and get in the truck and drink, wahoo!".
Quote from: Cain on February 13, 2014, 08:19:18 PM
Well I'm sorry I wanted to see if any bit of validity could be wrung from this.
Obviously I should just rely on first impressions in the future.
The letter has to be bullshit. Critique posted missed one important fact: Spooks don't have to narrow it down to 30 execs. Writer already stated he was one of three who stepped in to back up the first guy that got ejected. Which of these 3 retired from the music industry when he said he did? So he essentially just painted a fuck off big target on himself, while making a big song and dance about staying anonymous. Satire and cheap shots aside, it's highly unlikely someone that dumb would ever find his way into an executive position, let alone keep something secret for a couple of decades.
The premise? Did the SS invent gangsta rap to help fill prisons? I doubt it but, at the same time, it's the fourth reich we're talking about, exploding cigars, psychic spys... All bets are off, nothing can be ruled out. Supporting this rumour can only serve, to undermine the bastards. Like any good conspiracy theory there is an element of truth to it - Prison Industrial Complex. Is it really worth a seemingly impossible investigation to verify or refute? Does it really matter?
It perpetuates a racist trope, namely "black people are simple-minded and easily manipulated through popular media to a degree that nobody would ever dream of applying to white people as a whole".
So, yeah, some people might say it matters.
Point. I missed the black-angle. Pretty easy for a white guy :oops:
In my mind black people are equally simple minded and easily manipulated through popular media as white people are.
I feel like I brushed aside an important point, and I didn't mean to, which is that exactly who IS in bed with the private prison industry should be hugely interesting.
Quote from: Tiddleywomp Cockletit on February 13, 2014, 09:55:45 PM
I suspect music in general, at least the stuff that charts, has some weird shit going on behind the scenes.
Maybe not THIS, but something similar.
Somewhat of an aside, but chart music was and probably still is open to incredible levels of manipulation. Back when people bought CD's in shops, it was a fairly regular thing for HOT NEW BOY/GIRL BAND to come out of nowhere and get a string hit singles then disappear. Some stuck around and got quite big. How was that initial hit single obtained? Well A&R men would buy up every single copy of BAND's single and throw them in their boot. Then in a skip. Sales dictated how often you got played on the radio which was your key driver for further sales. It also allowed you to start promoting a tour which was where you could earn the real cash.
The music industry is a big fucking snakepit filled with all kinds of dodgy deals so it's not particularly surprising that something like this gets a bit of traction. The agenda as far as I can tell though remains unchanged: Make big stacks of cash through pandering to the lowest common denominator for the longest time possible. As soon as the act can't do it anymore: NEXT UP NEW YOUNG STAR GENERICA.
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on February 14, 2014, 12:12:14 AM
It perpetuates a racist trope, namely "black people are simple-minded and easily manipulated through popular media to a degree that nobody would ever dream of applying to white people as a whole".
So, yeah, some people might say it matters.
Honestly, I hadn't thought about it from that angle. I just thought of it as another variation of product placement.
I remember watching something on TV about The Godfather (movie), and how it influenced mafia culture. No idea if it's true, but I thought it was interesting.
I think the private prisons are capable and willing to do such a thing if they had reason to believe that there would be a sufficient Return On Investment, and I think the biggest bang would come from encouraging sloppiness.
I don't believe that is within their power to have created Gangsta Rap, but they could be influencing it.
If they don't do it, it's probably only because they get a higher ROI on money spent influencing government rather than influencing criminals, which seems likely to me.
And that's the most obvious part, isn't it?
Why go to the lengths to convince millions of people to act out criminally when you can just pay a handful of people to get more things criminalized?
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on February 14, 2014, 10:56:37 AM
And that's the most obvious part, isn't it?
Why go to the lengths to convince millions of people to act out criminally when you can just pay a handful of people to get more things criminalized?
This is a common flaw in a lot of conspiracy theory logic.
Stories similar to this crop up every couple months or so:
they tend to follow the form of:
"X shady entity did X shady action to influence early rap music in order to do X to X people-group in facilitation of X shady goal".
The most recent edition of it as I myself can recall was being spread around on paranormal/conspiracy type forums concerning a plot by some entity (I think it was the "alphabet soup" duo of CIA/FBI...could have been DoD iirc) who influenced early rap music specifically to weaken the black community and make them powerless in the face of an NWO takeover... it was spread around in the second half of last year via viral youtube videos featuring a bald guy in a suit claiming to be former DoD or something...turned out to be a viral ad campaign for a particular rap act.
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on February 14, 2014, 10:56:37 AM
And that's the most obvious part, isn't it?
Why go to the lengths to convince millions of people to act out criminally when you can just pay a handful of people to get more things criminalized?
ECH wins the internet.
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on February 14, 2014, 10:56:37 AM
And that's the most obvious part, isn't it?
Why go to the lengths to convince millions of people to act out criminally when you can just pay a handful of people to get more things criminalized?
Bingo.
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on February 14, 2014, 12:12:14 AM
It perpetuates a racist trope, namely "black people are simple-minded and easily manipulated through popular media to a degree that nobody would ever dream of applying to white people as a whole".
Where did you get the insane idea that the media doesn't manipulate white people?
:popcorn:
This topic requires you to believe in the Black Illumaniti.
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on February 24, 2014, 10:25:17 PM
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on February 14, 2014, 12:12:14 AM
It perpetuates a racist trope, namely "black people are simple-minded and easily manipulated through popular media to a degree that nobody would ever dream of applying to white people as a whole".
Where did you get the insane idea that the media doesn't manipulate white people?
Try reading it again, with a little comprehension this time.
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on February 25, 2014, 07:06:18 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on February 24, 2014, 10:25:17 PM
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on February 14, 2014, 12:12:14 AM
It perpetuates a racist trope, namely "black people are simple-minded and easily manipulated through popular media to a degree that nobody would ever dream of applying to white people as a whole".
Where did you get the insane idea that the media doesn't manipulate white people?
Try reading it again, with a little comprehension this time.
Um..."Shandor".
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on February 25, 2014, 07:06:18 AM
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on February 24, 2014, 10:25:17 PM
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on February 14, 2014, 12:12:14 AM
It perpetuates a racist trope, namely "black people are simple-minded and easily manipulated through popular media to a degree that nobody would ever dream of applying to white people as a whole".
Where did you get the insane idea that the media doesn't manipulate white people?
Try reading it again, with a little comprehension this time.
:lulz: Seriously, wow.
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/hip-hop-listening-parties-are-corny-and-corporate
QuoteThat's not always the case. Not being able to bank off record sales for cash flow, the artist will often make money from sponsors for listening events, according to Michelle McDevitt, industry veteran and cofounder of Audible Treats. A smaller-name brand matched with a big name talent means the artist will likely make money to support the name.
So revving up the hype machine for both the brands and the artists is much more important than wining and dining music critics. To generate the relevant buzz, the guest list for modern listening events is almost strictly scenesters. "You would be amazed at how many listenings I don't get invited to. I'm not even a priority, and I'm a DJ who plays records on the radio!" Peter Rosenberg said. "It's the brand trying to talk through the people who are there, rather than about the album." Those people are now bloggers with big Twitter followings, sponsors and their clients looking to smash free drinks, and radio-contest winners, just so the plebes think they still matter.
Nice article. I'd expect this to be happening in other music scenes as well. The band as a brand or being used to support a brand has been increasingly common over the past 25-ish years. Considering where this trend could lead in the next 25 years and "Demolition Man" with it's radio stations that only play fucking advertising jingles seems that much more plausible.
Quote from: Jet City Hustle on February 14, 2014, 12:12:14 AM
It perpetuates a racist trope, namely "black people are simple-minded and easily manipulated through popular media to a degree that nobody would ever dream of applying to white people as a whole".
So, yeah, some people might say it matters.
So what about a revised narrative: PIC notices this phenomenon of gangster rap. Cuts some deals to begin marketing it aggressively to white suburban kids in an effort to scare their white suburban parents sufficiently that they will turn a blind eye to the fact that young black youth are basically being harvested to fill beds at their private detention facilities.
Edited for intent: This is more of an O:MF kind of thought, here...