Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 12, 2014, 10:03:26 PM
Annnnd he threw my apology back in my face.
Leaving now. Be back when I get back from the East coast.
Ok, you wanna do this. Fine by me.
You have often said that an apology doesn't count when it's followed by a "but" or "however".
So I don't see why you think that one was supposed to mean anything to me.
Furthermore, you say you are sorry for misinterpreting me. I don't know what exactly makes you think that should magically make it all ok. That is the exact problem.
I am indeed sorry for the things I said in that thread. I got a big dose of stupid in my system that day. I also wasn't sure how I felt about the issue, and as is typical for me, I just blurted it all out without filters or second thought and felt whatever hostility I got, from an intellectual level, was something I could deal with, as I have always done.
What I could not deal with was the worst possible thing being assumed by someone who I respected: That I was making the sort of callous, uneducated judgement I thought I was decrying in the first place about someone's parenting. Something which I know FULL GOD DAMNED WELL isn't any of my business.
I made some mistakes in that thread, generally, though I haven't read any words in it passed: fuck you fuck you fuck and you fucking asshole. I could sense I was letting my stupid hang out.
Now. Every time my wife has done her thing during my shitty marriage she used anything she could in my mood or manner to make me feel like I was somehow shitting on her, was trying to make her feel bad, didn't care about her, or in some way was acting like an asshole. It was at the center of the hostility I got from her, which eventually turned into the real shitty stuff. Every damned time.
Of course, combined with the shitty reputation I have in this town, my track record with exes, and my near total lack of friendship, it's hard for me to ascertain whether I am just an impossible asshole or just have a shitty way of expressing myself.
I would have thought, after the years I have spent here, I would be given some benefit of the doubt as to whether or not I am saying things that only a fucking asshole would say and truly mean. Guess not. Guess I haven't earned that. Well, you know, this place is one of the only meters I have to measure myself. I have few peers. I thought my mind was laid fairly wide open. And yet, no. No I don't get that. I obviously, deep down, in my heart of hearts hold TERRIBLE JUDGEMENT against Nigel's parenting. Couldn't be that I stuck my foot in my own asshole. Nope. Not one ounce of leeway given by someone I felt actual, real-live friendship with.
Fine. FINE. You know, I can handle it. If that's what she think about me, let her.
That word, it's sort of a trigger for me.
When I was 11 years old my grandmother came up to me, turned off the TV and said, "I'm going to say this in english because I want to make sure you understand me. You are a little asshole and no one is ever going to like you because of it."
I told this to my stepfather who had words with her.
After that she came to me again wearing a handful of her rings. She asked me if I had told my stepfather what she told me. I said yes and she backhanded me to the ground and walked away without a word.
Now, I am not saying this to excuse my behavior or my stupid or my poor communication.
I am just saying it illustrate that it's a particular trigger when used a certain way. We all have them.
So, I took a break for four fucking days. I came here and apologized because I felt it was due, and then went to FB and told people their I was going to be away. I have felt very depressed. I had some drunken ex fling over here Saturday night who got abusive with me. I didn't want to unload on you or anyone else the self pity and loathing I was feeling. I was trying to not be all emo, I was trying to get my shit together.
AND YOU DECIDE THIS IS THE PERFECT TIME TO SHIT ALL OVER ME.
FOR SOMETHING I DIDN' FUCKING DO.
FOR REASONS YOU DIDN'T MAKE CLEAR UNTIL YOUR "APOLOGY".
It was not a good one Roger. And it is the fact that you did exactly what has pissed me off and brought me low, the thing that people I have known my entire life have done to me, because I am obviously intending the worst and mean the worst and am the worst, that makes your apology a poor one.
Saying: I am sorry, but I am dealing with this particular issue right now, doesn't cut it, man.
Saying: I am sorry for doing the thing that has made you feel deeply depressed, would have been a lot fucking better.
Saying: Hey it looks like you are really fucking upset, I didn't mean that, I am sorry, would have worked.
Hell: I am going to leave you alone for right now, would have motherfucking worked. But you didn't say any of that.
I am sort of surprised I have to explain this to you.
I am constantly misinterpreted. Every fucking day, people don't get me. I kind of count on you to be there in that way where so many others are not. I guess I depend on PD that way, but I'd be lying if I said it means as much as when you do it.
But you don't want to deal with that. An "I'm sorry but" and it's supposed to be all better.
Listen, you didn't make a small error here. You chose a bad time to do something I have been struggling with for some time now. And you did right as I was leaving the horrible tension and aching gut behind.
Right as I am feeling like I can do this, I can survive up here, HOMELESSS for all intents and purposes, right after I get a client's husband's phone call from one of VERY FEW regulars saying she got into a car accident and is in the hospital, and will be, right there and then I get:
I won't fucking be here when you get fucking back.
You set me off, and if you can't deal with the fall out from that, if you want to end our friendship because I wouldn't accept an "I'm sorry but" right when I am seeing nothing but red, then go ahead. I won't stop you. But don't you dare come here and tell these people that I threw your apology back in your face, because that's not what fucking happened.
Quote from: Alty on March 13, 2014, 12:00:25 AM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 12, 2014, 10:03:26 PM
Annnnd he threw my apology back in my face.
Leaving now. Be back when I get back from the East coast.
Ok, you wanna do this. Fine by me.
You have often said that an apology doesn't count when it's followed by a "but" or "however".
So I don't see why you think that one was supposed to mean anything to me.
Furthermore, you say you are sorry for misinterpreting me. I don't know what exactly makes you think that should magically make it all ok. That is the exact problem.
I am indeed sorry for the things I said in that thread. I got a big dose of stupid in my system that day. I also wasn't sure how I felt about the issue, and as is typical for me, I just blurted it all out without filters or second thought and felt whatever hostility I got, from an intellectual level, was something I could deal with, as I have always done.
What I could not deal with was the worst possible thing being assumed by someone who I respected: That I was making the sort of callous, uneducated judgement I thought I was decrying in the first place about someone's parenting. Something which I know FULL GOD DAMNED WELL isn't any of my business.
I made some mistakes in that thread, generally, though I haven't read any words in it passed: fuck you fuck you fuck and you fucking asshole. I could sense I was letting my stupid hang out.
Now. Every time my wife has done her thing during my shitty marriage she used anything she could in my mood or manner to make me feel like I was somehow shitting on her, was trying to make her feel bad, didn't care about her, or in some way was acting like an asshole. It was at the center of the hostility I got from her, which eventually turned into the real shitty stuff. Every damned time.
Of course, combined with the shitty reputation I have in this town, my track record with exes, and my near total lack of friendship, it's hard for me to ascertain whether I am just an impossible asshole or just have a shitty way of expressing myself.
I would have thought, after the years I have spent here, I would be given some benefit of the doubt as to whether or not I am saying things that only a fucking asshole would say and truly mean. Guess not. Guess I haven't earned that. Well, you know, this place is one of the only meters I have to measure myself. I have few peers. I thought my mind was laid fairly wide open. And yet, no. No I don't get that. I obviously, deep down, in my heart of hearts hold TERRIBLE JUDGEMENT against Nigel's parenting. Couldn't be that I stuck my foot in my own asshole. Nope. Not one ounce of leeway given by someone I felt actual, real-live friendship with.
Fine. FINE. You know, I can handle it. If that's what she think about me, let her.
That word, it's sort of a trigger for me.
When I was 11 years old my grandmother came up to me, turned off the TV and said, "I'm going to say this in english because I want to make sure you understand me. You are a little asshole and no one is ever going to like you because of it."
I told this to my stepfather who had words with her.
After that she came to me again wearing a handful of her rings. She asked me if I had told my stepfather what she told me. I said yes and she backhanded me to the ground and walked away without a word.
Now, I am not saying this to excuse my behavior or my stupid or my poor communication.
I am just saying it illustrate that it's a particular trigger when used a certain way. We all have them.
So, I took a break for four fucking days. I came here and apologized because I felt it was due, and then went to FB and told people their I was going to be away. I have felt very depressed. I had some drunken ex fling over here Saturday night who got abusive with me. I didn't want to unload on you or anyone else the self pity and loathing I was feeling. I was trying to not be all emo, I was trying to get my shit together.
AND YOU DECIDE THIS IS THE PERFECT TIME TO SHIT ALL OVER ME.
FOR SOMETHING I DIDN' FUCKING DO.
FOR REASONS YOU DIDN'T MAKE CLEAR UNTIL YOUR "APOLOGY".
It was not a good one Roger. And it is the fact that you did exactly what has pissed me off and brought me low, the thing that people I have known my entire life have done to me, because I am obviously intending the worst and mean the worst and am the worst, that makes your apology a poor one.
Saying: I am sorry, but I am dealing with this particular issue right now, doesn't cut it, man.
Saying: I am sorry for doing the thing that has made you feel deeply depressed, would have been a lot fucking better.
Saying: Hey it looks like you are really fucking upset, I didn't mean that, I am sorry, would have worked.
Hell: I am going to leave you alone for right now, would have motherfucking worked. But you didn't say any of that.
I am sort of surprised I have to explain this to you.
I am constantly misinterpreted. Every fucking day, people don't get me. I kind of count on you to be there in that way where so many others are not. I guess I depend on PD that way, but I'd be lying if I said it means as much as when you do it.
But you don't want to deal with that. An "I'm sorry but" and it's supposed to be all better.
Listen, you didn't make a small error here. You chose a bad time to do something I have been struggling with for some time now. And you did right as I was leaving the horrible tension and aching gut behind.
Right as I am feeling like I can do this, I can survive up here, HOMELESSS for all intents and purposes, right after I get a client's husband's phone call from one of VERY FEW regulars saying she got into a car accident and is in the hospital, and will be, right there and then I get:
I won't fucking be here when you get fucking back.
You set me off, and if you can't deal with the fall out from that, if you want to end our friendship because I wouldn't accept an "I'm sorry but" right when I am seeing nothing but red, then go ahead. I won't stop you. But don't you dare come here and tell these people that I threw your apology back in your face, because that's not what fucking happened.
I don't remember a "but" in my apology, though I may be mistaken. I remember backing off and then having my nose rubbed in it.
I remember that it's "all about me". I remember that a single misunderstanding > years of fucking friendship.
So it's not "magically okay."
Leave me the hell alone.
Sure, but I'm not the one who threw it away.
Quote from: Alty on March 13, 2014, 12:09:05 AM
Sure, but I'm not the one who threw it away.
Put the blame on me. I don't care. I WAS at fault. That was the whole fucking POINT.
So just leave me the fuck alone.
Since I am not going to sleep tonight (again), I guess I may as well point something out...And I know I did say "leave me alone", but it turns out that it's a little late for that.
This.
Right here.
Quote from: Alty on March 13, 2014, 12:00:25 AM
I am constantly misinterpreted. Every fucking day, people don't get me. I kind of count on you to be there in that way where so many others are not. I guess I depend on PD that way, but I'd be lying if I said it means as much as when you do it.
LET'S JUST FUCKING FINISH THAT THOUGHT, SHALL WE?
Quote from: Alty on March 13, 2014, 12:00:25 AM
I am constantly misinterpreted. Every fucking day, people don't get me. I kind of count on you to be there in that way where so many others are not. I guess I depend on PD that way, but I'd be lying if I said it means as much as when you do it UNTIL THE FIRST TIME YOU FUCK UP, THEN YOU'RE CHOPPED LIVER.
Fuck you, you son of a bitch. Fuck you in the heart.
You know what? I think I am gonna sleep after all.
For the record, Alty, if you had read past that in that thread you would have seen that I apologized for flying off the handle at you. With no "but". And I do mean it.
We are all under a lot of stress and a lot of pressure in various ways from various angles. Maybe we should all just give ourselves and each other a break.
Yeah. Everyone is really stressed out right now. Can we call an armistice?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on March 13, 2014, 02:41:07 AM
Yeah. Everyone is really stressed out right now. Can we call an armistice?
I don't think that's really going to be relevant, LMNO. He seems to have erased his FB page (or I'm on ignore). My message box just has a message saying he won't be back here.
So I am left with just the stated (in the OP) fact that I had seriously misjudged Alty & my relationship, which seems to be the root cause of the trouble, here. I thought Alty and I were friends; in reality, I was apparently his
interpreter. When I fucked up an interpretation, I was fired. See, THAT I can understand.
Not that this matters much. He had some time ago stopped actually reading what was said to him. Nigel had apologized, in the original thread
1. Alty did not read that, or he wouldn't have said what he said in the OP. I apologized to him, then broke paragraph (I have since re-read the apology) and explained why I had been so upset. He didn't seem to actually read that; he took the second paragraph as a qualifier, rather than a statement about why
I had fucked up in the first place.
It's easy to see how this happens; he is without an interpreter at the present.
Note: It occurs to me that this may seem like sarcasm. It isn't. It is merely a bit of clarity that occurred when the situation was suddenly put in terms that I understand.
1 ETA: Correction: Nigel had at that point explained her case.
I am also going to state that this was on rails, in my opinion. It was inevitable.
WHY this is, is a little complicated. I need to find the right way to say it, it has only just occurred to me and I don't know really how to explain it yet. Tomorrow.
Damn..... This thread...
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 13, 2014, 03:05:15 AM
I am also going to state that this was on rails, in my opinion. It was inevitable.
WHY this is, is a little complicated. I need to find the right way to say it, it has only just occurred to me and I don't know really how to explain it yet. Tomorrow.
Here's what I mean:
The long-time users who have left PD all have one thing in common.
NOTE: I am not comparing them to one another as people in total, just stating that they all seem to have one thing in common.They went and found something to Champion. A uniform, if you like. Garbo had the transgender thing, RWHN had the drugs issue, Charley and Khara found Jesus in the person of an alcoholic Australian lady, Kai found HIS Cause in keeping the hem of his academic robe from being soiled by the masses, etc. In most cases, they ran off and found an echo chamber. tumblr for some, that Google page for RWHN, etc.
In this case, of course, it was a tumblr page about how rotten thin people are.
Now, the people that have stayed also have something in common. We're all junkies of one kind or another. I have become addicted to power (and benzos), which is why I can't seem to get around to quiting this awful job. P3nt is addicted to huffing P3nt, Cain is addicted to international politics (which is a pretty awful vice), LMNO to the concept of Saturday Night, etc.
On one hand, people who got comfy in their freshly-painted and colorful prison cells, and on the other hand, people just damaged enough to keep looking at the cells and seeing the bars.
I wonder what my uniform will be like? I hope it brings me lots of lulz.
Quote from: /b/earman on March 13, 2014, 02:52:29 PM
I wonder what my uniform will be like? I hope it brings me lots of lulz.
I think you make a better junkie. CCG freak.
I think that everyone's a little more complicated than that, and that whether people stay here or leave here, it isn't quite so black and white or categorical.
Some people probably leave because they don't have that much free time and don't want to deal with any more bullshit drama than they have to. This place is full of fragile egos and that leads inevitably to bullshit drama, categorical thinking, and shunning.
OMG I CANT BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT I'M LEAVING FOREVER *flounce*
In all seriousness, I hope Alty and Roger can sort this out or at least discuss it at some point. This kind of thing always leaves a bad taste in my mouth, which is I don't often post in threads like this.
Quote from: Cain on March 13, 2014, 04:12:45 PM
In all seriousness, I hope Alty and Roger can sort this out or at least discuss it at some point.
Yesterday we were both too mad to talk.
And he's either ignored me or shut off his FB account. And out of respect to his wishes in his last PM to me at FB, I have erased his phone number.
So I don't know how that would happen. Which is a damn shame.
Yeah, I thought as much. Hopefully something will happen. I think at this point, Alty just need some time.
Quote from: Cain on March 13, 2014, 04:17:10 PM
Yeah, I thought as much. Hopefully something will happen. I think at this point, Alty just need some time.
He's not the only one. I am still steaming mad. Just not like I was yesterday.
I'm not mad, because his life is much more shitty and stressful right now than mine. People overreact in those circumstances.
Alty, if you read this, the "but" was a transition to explaining why *I* had fucked up. I am not a very good person, and apparently I am not a very good friend.
That's all I have left to say.
He has my number, and I told him to text me if he needs someone to blow up on.
Hopefully he'll bite.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 13, 2014, 01:21:13 PM
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on March 13, 2014, 03:05:15 AM
I am also going to state that this was on rails, in my opinion. It was inevitable.
WHY this is, is a little complicated. I need to find the right way to say it, it has only just occurred to me and I don't know really how to explain it yet. Tomorrow.
Here's what I mean:
The long-time users who have left PD all have one thing in common. NOTE: I am not comparing them to one another as people in total, just stating that they all seem to have one thing in common.
They went and found something to Champion. A uniform, if you like. Garbo had the transgender thing, RWHN had the drugs issue, Charley and Khara found Jesus in the person of an alcoholic Australian lady, Kai found HIS Cause in keeping the hem of his academic robe from being soiled by the masses, etc. In most cases, they ran off and found an echo chamber. tumblr for some, that Google page for RWHN, etc.
In this case, of course, it was a tumblr page about how rotten thin people are.
Now, the people that have stayed also have something in common. We're all junkies of one kind or another. I have become addicted to power (and benzos), which is why I can't seem to get around to quiting this awful job. P3nt is addicted to huffing P3nt, Cain is addicted to international politics (which is a pretty awful vice), LMNO to the concept of Saturday Night, etc.
On one hand, people who got comfy in their freshly-painted and colorful prison cells, and on the other hand, people just damaged enough to keep looking at the cells and seeing the bars.
And I'm an alcoholic addicted to self-pity and self-hatred. (I was feeling left out)
I just keep a medium distance in respect to the board, has been working out pretty well so far. If Februarytm blooms, i just try to ignore it or stop visiting for a while; if theres a Drug threadtm i just take note on whats going on in general, try to make a reasonable point, but i dont get down and dirty in the mud.
I can keep this distance (and it kind of naturally follows) from geolocation while the contrary applies to the rest of anglo members... i dont have a reasonable expectation to meet any of you in real life, while in between yourselves there probably is, so that influences the way you all interact... more intimate and more friendship, but then theres also shitfests and drama, but i think they are kind of unavoidable in the Internet.
Quote from: The Johnny on March 14, 2014, 08:33:08 AM
I just keep a medium distance in respect to the board, has been working out pretty well so far. If Februarytm blooms, i just try to ignore it or stop visiting for a while; if theres a Drug threadtm i just take note on whats going on in general, try to make a reasonable point, but i dont get down and dirty in the mud.
I can keep this distance (and it kind of naturally follows) from geolocation while the contrary applies to the rest of anglo members... i dont have a reasonable expectation to meet any of you in real life, while in between yourselves there probably is, so that influences the way you all interact... more intimate and more friendship, but then theres also shitfests and drama, but i think they are kind of unavoidable in the Internet.
Agreed, I worry people think I'm standoffish but it is just personal privacy as far as I'm concerned. Now when drama kicks off I walk out, simply because I don't have the time I did when I was a student.
Internet drama is where debate meets roleplay.
We are interacting with real people, yes, but there are only certain crossovers and parallels with IRL interaction
After a point the comparison breaks down
You can't throw punches on the internet
You don't have to leave a physical space to get away from someone, etc...
But a lot of it feels just like IRL and we want to be able to do things we'd do in IRL like not talking to people and leaving the room and playing our petty little monkey games
So we pretend.
And I don't give a fuck what anyone says - it's hilarious :lulz:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on March 14, 2014, 09:16:22 AM
Internet drama is where debate meets roleplay.
We are interacting with real people, yes, but there are only certain crossovers and parallels with IRL interaction
After a point the comparison breaks down
You can't throw punches on the internet
You don't have to leave a physical space to get away from someone, etc...
But a lot of it feels just like IRL and we want to be able to do things we'd do in IRL like not talking to people and leaving the room and playing our petty little monkey games
So we pretend.
And I don't give a fuck what anyone says - it's hilarious :lulz:
So true. I want to dig my heels in and rage. But god damn it's too damn funny. I was told this place is where I can have a good time.
Fuck you all. I had a fucking face.