I've managed to avoid Hermann Hesse for a long time. Not sure why I avoided him, maybe because of the "mainstream is bad" meme I have acquired during my teenage years. Many pals told me that his books are must-read, that he was so insightful, that he was so ahead of his time, etc...
So, in the last few days, in order to fill some educational gaps, I've read "Demian" and "Der Steppenwolf". I didn't like them. At all. I had the impression that all he does is provide readers (who, of course, identity with the protagonist) with the following thought process: "You're so smart and unique, your smarter than most people, but you suffer because you're stuck between two worlds, you're a herd animal and an individual, this is very bad but can't be evaded because that's how you are, however you can find other people who are like you, in fact, everyone is like this."
My reaction: "Duh!". Do his thought processes seem so worn out to me because my culture has been dealing with them for a long time now? These thoughts have been reiterated over and over again at least since Goethe. Why did my parent's generation seem to love Hesse that much? What did I miss? Am I simply getting to old for enjoying Hesse? Is Siddharta still worth reading?
I liked Steppenwolf but only because I took a completely different message from it. I got the feeling that the main character thought he was a lot smarter than he was, placed way too much importance on who he was and only started to enjoy himself when he realised he was coming from a place of emotional and intellectual snobbery and that his animal idea of the steppenwolf really didn't make a difference to anyone in the end, least of all him.
I tried reading Siddhartha but lost interest about twenty pages in.
Steppenwolf's conclusion, i.e. "I'm not daddy's special little snowflake", sure is the least boring part of the book to me. Still, meh.
QuoteI tried reading Siddhartha but lost interest about twenty pages in.
Here goes my motivation ... I'll tell you if make it further.
QuoteDo his thought processes seem so worn out to me because my culture has been dealing with them for a long time now? These thoughts have been reiterated over and over again at least since Goethe. Why did my parent's generation seem to love Hesse that much? What did I miss?
Probably. Hesse was at first influential in the extremely conformist Second Reich, and was then popularised by Leary and Colin Wilson (probably because they incorrectly interpreted certain pieces of writing as psychedically influenced) and spread through the hippie counterculture.
So in each case he was popular as a reaction to extremely conformist times.
Quote from: Cain on May 07, 2014, 10:17:18 AM
Probably. Hesse was at first influential in the extremely conformist Second Reich, and was then popularised by Leary and Colin Wilson (probably because they incorrectly interpreted certain pieces of writing as psychedically influenced) and spread through the hippie counterculture.
So in each case he was popular as a reaction to extremely conformist times.
Twice is enough. Can we please choose something more juicy as the reaction to today's conformism?
(http://guardianlv.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Miley-Cyrus-Licking-a-sledgehammer-in-Wrecking-Ball-video2-650x367.jpg)
Quote from: Cain on May 07, 2014, 10:38:02 AM
(http://guardianlv.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Miley-Cyrus-Licking-a-sledgehammer-in-Wrecking-Ball-video2-650x367.jpg)
:lol: suck it, Hermann
Quote from: Weltbürger (NSFW) on May 07, 2014, 10:41:11 AM
Quote from: Cain on May 07, 2014, 10:38:02 AM
(http://guardianlv.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Miley-Cyrus-Licking-a-sledgehammer-in-Wrecking-Ball-video2-650x367.jpg)
:lol: suck it, Hermann
Hoo boy.
Take a fucking hike, Weltburger.
I really really liked Siddhartha. That's the only Hesse I've read. Didn't read it until I was an adult. Definitely impacted me nevertheless.
Though I'll say, if you're categorically not into "thoughts have been reiterated over and over again at least since Goethe" you probably won't like it. The book's about the Buddha and Enlightenment, partly in Siddhartha, but partly in all of us. You already know whether that's your cup of tea or not.
-5 points for using the buzzword "impacted".
What if Cram meant it impacted on him....like a wrecking ball?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on May 07, 2014, 05:33:51 PM
-5 points for using the buzzword "impacted".
I shall have to craft an angry response.
sorry, missing something - is that a bad word now?
I read Siddhartha twice- once for summer reading in high school, once for a class in college. I liked it both times. Good thing about it is that even if you don't really like it, it's a pretty quick read, so you won't have wasted much time.
Quote from: Cramulus on May 07, 2014, 05:45:17 PM
sorry, missing something - is that a bad word now?
When applied to your bowels, it is.
I think, and these are the words of someone who had three hours of sleep last night, that LMNO is objecting to the incorrect grammar as much as anything. "It had an impact on me nonetheless" would be a better way to put it. "Impacted" has unfortunate asteroid/bowels/Miley Cyrus wrecking ball connotations.
Impacted could mean nasty shit [smirks] but I don't really have a problem with it and don't consider it to be a buzzword in the same frame of reference as say impactful. Now that is one seriously fucked up word
Quote from: Cramulus on May 07, 2014, 05:45:17 PM
sorry, missing something - is that a bad word now?
im·pact·ed/ɪmˈpæktɪd
adjective
1. tightly or immovably wedged in.
2. Dentistry. noting a tooth so confined in its socket as to be incapable of normal eruption.
3. driven together; tightly packed.
4. densely populated or crowded; overcrowded: an impacted school district.
We both have been working for corporate long enough that this seems to be normal. But it's not. We should do a solve to innovent a turnkey solution for this.
thanks for the tip, but
im·pact·ed
imˈpaktid/
adjective
adjective: impacted
1.
pressed firmly together, in particular.
(of a tooth) wedged between another tooth and the jaw.
(of a fractured bone) having the parts crushed together.
(of feces) lodged in the intestine.
2.
strongly affected by something.
and regardless, I think my usage was clear, no? It had an impact on me. It impacted me. Is that somehow confusing?
anyway, I just wanted to say I liked Siddhartha
Quote from: Cramulus on May 07, 2014, 05:45:17 PM
sorry, missing something - is that a bad word now?
The manner in which it was used has the poor Queen of England blubbering. Like this ---> :cry:
Quote from: Cramulus on May 07, 2014, 06:18:07 PM
thanks for the tip, but
im·pact·ed
imˈpaktid/
adjective
adjective: impacted
1.
pressed firmly together, in particular.
(of a tooth) wedged between another tooth and the jaw.
(of a fractured bone) having the parts crushed together.
(of feces) lodged in the intestine.
2.
strongly affected by something.
and regardless, I think my usage was clear, no? It had an impact on me. It impacted me. Is that somehow confusing?
anyway, I just wanted to say I liked Siddhartha
Ok, I'm going to go there, because my google-fu didn't find it:
Quote2.
strongly affected by something.
:cn:
seriously? still hung up on this?
I used google
(http://i.imgur.com/hoaaLkG.png)
also http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/impacted
is there, like, a reason you're being so pedantic?
Believe it or not, yes.
I was hoping for an etymology of the second definition, but I can see by the example sentence, it's fairly recent; and further, it's quite clearlu a direct result of BusinessSpeak, which is a horrible sub-genre of speech that mauls words, grafts on pre- and suf-fixes, and then stuffs them into meanings that have little or nothing to do with their original intended usage, usually based purely upon their homonym equivalents.
I place them at the same level as "Bushisms" like Strategery. And yes, that was a Will Farrell joke that became attributed to Bush. Doesn't matter. Ignorance of English is ignorance of English, regardless of how much money you make, or how powerful you are.
I only get pissy because I have to hear the English language get waterboarded three times a day in the conference room.
Actually, it's not new. Impact as a verb dates to the 1600s. And people have been arguing about this point since at least the 60s. See the Usage Notes (http://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=impact) and then please quit policing my language. If the meaning of that sentence was clear, I really don't care whether my usage is "correct" or not - this is an Internet forum, not a term paper.
Management buzzwords are the devil, They are right up there with the terrible things like pedantry.
I have to agree with cram though, if the meaning was clear who gives a shit? The only difference I've seen is when it "x impacted upon me" instead of "x impacted me"
Did you really try to grammar-shame me?
Sheesh. It's like the SJWs of English class up in here.
Also, from that OED site you likens to:
"early 17th century (as a verb in the sense 'press closely, fix firmly'): from Latin impact- 'driven in', from the verb impingere (see impinge)."
"The phrasal verb impact on, as in when produce is lost, it always impacts on the bottom line, has been in the language since the 1960s."
So, yeah. Since the 1600's, but not as a phrasal verb. Like, you know, I meant.
Are you guys actually getting pissed off? :?
Quote from: MMIX on May 07, 2014, 05:55:49 PM
Impacted could mean nasty shit [smirks] but I don't really have a problem with it and don't consider it to be a buzzword in the same frame of reference as say impactful. Now that is one seriously fucked up word
Yes. My boss does that shit. Like every fucking day.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger on May 07, 2014, 09:39:41 PM
Quote from: MMIX on May 07, 2014, 05:55:49 PM
Impacted could mean nasty shit [smirks] but I don't really have a problem with it and don't consider it to be a buzzword in the same frame of reference as say impactful. Now that is one seriously fucked up word
Yes. My boss does that shit. Like every fucking day.
I can only imagine your pain
. . . and your superhuman self control. I don't think I could suffer that provocation every day and remain unmoved
To me, it's like using irregardless, or the whole your/you're there/their thing. Sure, it's "common usage", but it irks.
Oh, how it irks.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on May 07, 2014, 11:29:16 PM
To me, it's like using irregardless, or the whole your/you're there/their thing. Sure, it's "common usage", but it irks.
Oh, how it irks.
:tgrr:
Quote from: MMIX on May 07, 2014, 10:38:51 PM
. . . and your superhuman self control. I don't think I could suffer that provocation every day and remain unmoved
I have to keep telling myself, "Yes, he has a PhD, but he went through Elementary school in America."
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on May 07, 2014, 11:29:16 PM
To me, it's like using irregardless, or the whole your/you're there/their thing. Sure, it's "common usage", but it irks.
Oh, how it irks.
P3nt's thread
Ted talk spins morality on it's head showing up in my unread topics window for the last week or so has been giving me an eye twitch.
It's like a scab that's just partially hanging off.
Ima grammar super hard on yall.
\
:mullet:
Your gotta be kidding me with. Even if their joking, irregardless.
Quote from: Cain on May 07, 2014, 05:36:54 PM
What if Cram meant it impacted on him....like a wrecking ball?
:lulz:
+10
Quote from: Cramulus on May 07, 2014, 05:30:01 PM
Though I'll say, if you're categorically not into "thoughts have been reiterated over and over again at least since Goethe" you probably won't like it. The book's about the Buddha and Enlightenment, partly in Siddhartha, but partly in all of us. You already know whether that's your cup of tea or not.
Of course those reiterated thoughts don't have to be boring. It can be very refreshing to read works which have impacted my own world view without me having read them before. This is a reason why I (mostly) enjoyed reading (most of) the bible. It's like watching Star Wars for the first time and constantly finding the sources to pop-cultural references you never got before.
Maybe it's Hesse's style of language which adds to my refusal. His language is orderly and spruce, it's a showpiece, it reminds me of the schoolbench where you HAVE TO read while you could of enjoyed the sunshine outside. Still not Hesse's fault though. Society has helped me not to like Hesse. Siddharta still seems tempting because it was written in a phase when a lot of writers made the effort of combining different world views from all around. Hesse did this successfully. I just decided to believe that he's one of the reasons I'm living next to a yoga school. If I decide to read Siddharta I'm expecting lots of Star Wars moments.
Quote from: Weltbürger (NSFW) on May 08, 2014, 01:03:48 PM
Maybe it's Hesse's style of language which adds to my refusal. His language is orderly and spruce, it's a showpiece, it reminds me of the schoolbench where you HAVE TO read while you could of enjoyed the sunshine outside. Still not Hesse's fault though. Society has helped me not to like Hesse.
yeah, I hear what you mean about the clunkiness - probably 50% due to difficulty in translating from German, 50% due to the style of the time.
QuoteSiddharta still seems tempting because it was written in a phase when a lot of writers made the effort of combining different world views from all around. Hesse did this successfully. I just decided to believe that he's one of the reasons I'm living next to a yoga school. If I decide to read Siddharta I'm expecting lots of Star Wars moments.
Siddhartha is also kind of interesting if you look at it through the lens of Hesse trying to explain the roots of Buddhism to Germans who are completely unfamiliar with the East. In some ways the whole book is trying to resolve a certain kind of mind set.
and of course, this passage is an old favorite http://principiadiscordia.com/bip/22.php
I also like playin' me some Glass Bead Game.
Wasn't his brother something in the reich? Ended up in Spandau Prison until he died?. . . . Hesse, that's the guy.....