Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Techmology and Scientism => Topic started by: P3nT4gR4m on May 12, 2014, 06:06:06 PM

Title: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 12, 2014, 06:06:06 PM
Prolly easy if you know sums.

Object A is travelling in a straight line, at a constant speed of 60 Mph toward object B.

Object B rapidly accelerates to 6 mph on a heading perpendicular to object A's trajectory.

How close can object A be to object B if object B wants to leave it til the last second before paddling like fuck into the bow wave of an approaching oiltanker

Hypothetically speaking?

part 2 is the exact same question but object A is travelling at 40mph and is only the size of a fishing boat

I'd appreciate if you could tell me how you worked it out. Now that I've formulated the question I'm kinda interested in how maths would be applied to solving it.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: LMNO on May 12, 2014, 06:20:51 PM
I think more information is needed. 

Do you want Object B to go in front of the boat, hit the boat, or go behind the boat?

What is the rate of acceleration? For example, gravity accelerates at 32 m/s2.

If you want to cut in front of it, how wide is object A?

...



...


Wait, I'm trying to visualize this.  "How close can object A be to object B if object B wants to leave it til the last second before paddling like fuck into the bow wave of an approaching oiltanker."

You want to paddle (along an X axis) at an oil tanker (travelling on a Y axis) and hit the bow wave, right?  So the answer depends on two variables.  How far away on the X axis you are, and how far away on the Y axis you are.  One would determine the other.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: Faust on May 12, 2014, 10:09:00 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 12, 2014, 06:06:06 PM
Prolly easy if you know sums.

Object A is travelling in a straight line, at a constant speed of 60 Mph toward object B.

Object B rapidly accelerates to 6 mph on a heading perpendicular to object A's trajectory.

How close can object A be to object B if object B wants to leave it til the last second before paddling like fuck into the bow wave of an approaching oiltanker

Hypothetically speaking?

part 2 is the exact same question but object A is travelling at 40mph and is only the size of a fishing boat

I'd appreciate if you could tell me how you worked it out. Now that I've formulated the question I'm kinda interested in how maths would be applied to solving it.

Well I don't have the separation or size of A and B, so as long as I want?
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: LMNO on May 12, 2014, 10:23:14 PM
Yeah, that's an easier way to answer it.  I had to take the long way around.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 13, 2014, 06:55:25 AM
To be honest a ballpark would do it.  I'll be hitting 6mph within a couple of secs. I'm wondering if its 20 feet or two hundred meters kind of thing?
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 13, 2014, 07:08:43 AM
You have to provide at least an approximation of the other distance, or it's unsolvable.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: Faust on May 13, 2014, 07:52:36 AM
And if not unsolvable, multivariate, allowing for nigh on infinite answers.

It's like saying what are x and y in the equation x+y =10, sure there are only certain combinations that are true, but there are many many values that fit.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 13, 2014, 09:46:03 AM
Either I'm not explaining the problem or I don't get this "other distance" thing  :oops:

So I'm going to spot the tanker from about a mile away and put myself directly in it's path then just wait patiently while he comes barrelling down the shipping lane toward me.

I can take off at a perpendicular angle at any time but there's a photo op from someone in front of me to get a shot of me piling down the wave with the tanker in shot (the closer it looks the better) average tanker or cargo freighter width is 200 feet so (if I can line up dead center, I'll have max 100 feet to cover, plus another 50 for good measure. Is this enough?
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2014, 12:18:45 PM
OK, let's say the event point is Zero on an XY axis.  The Tanker is heading down the Y axis.  At the zero point, you want to be 150' out on the X axis.

If you start a X=0, and you travel 6mph, how long will that take, and how far away will the tanker be when you start paddling?

Ok, that sounds more manageable.  A two-parter.

One:  How long does it take to go 150' at 6 MPH?

6 MPH = 31,680 feet/hr = 528 feet/minute = 8.8 feet/second
150/8.8 = 17 seconds.

Two:
How far will a tanker go in 17 seconds at 60 MPH?

60 MPH = 316,800 feet/hr = 5280 feet/min = 88 feet/second
88x17 = 1,496 feet

So, if you really can go from 0 to 6MPH almost instantaneously, start paddling like hell when the tanker is 1,500 feet away.

But you still have an enormous chance of dying.  So, you know, don't.  Die, that is.  I know you're going to hypothetically do this anyway.


Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2014, 12:21:05 PM
Keep in mind that both your paddling speed, and the speed of the tanker are relatively unknown, so distance and time could fluctuate wildly.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 13, 2014, 01:30:58 PM
Jesus. Where the fuck did I get 60mph from? Must have been a brainfart - tanker will be travelling around 15mph - I'll be tracking it's speed and heading on gps. I also know that my lenseman can do all sorts of f-stop jiggery pokery to make it look like I'm closer than I look to the leviathan. Don't worry about me dying - this is purely hypothetical  :wink:

Another thing it's possible to do is cheat a bit and not start dead center on the tanker but a hundred feet or so to the side. This is surprisingly easy to do when you know the rules.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2014, 01:35:22 PM
15 MPH = 79200 FPH = 1320 FPM = 22 f/s

22x17 = 374 feet

Start hypothetically paddling at about 400 feet.

Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 13, 2014, 01:39:55 PM
Brilliant, cheers! Seeing it written down like that, it's pretty straightforward, too. I've learned me some math. Now I can tighten up that 17 secs estimate with a bit of field testing...

while we're on the subject, say I travelled at an angle of 45degrees to the Y axis, in the direction the tanker is moving, so I'll be better placed to drop into the wave, would this by any chance double the time taken to reach 150 feet clear on X?
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2014, 02:08:07 PM
Ok, we're moving on to geometry.  Tricky.


You've got a right triangle with a single side of 150', which is AB, below
(http://www.mathwarehouse.com/geometry/triangles/images/right-triangles/picture-of-right-triangle.png)
Before, you were simply going from A to B, where B is the zero point (meeting the ship).

Now, you're starting at A, and moving to C, which is the new zero point.

You're in luck, because a 45o right triangle has a special property in that both AB and BC are the same length.
You're also in luck, because the hypotenuse can be calculated with the handy dandy formula

AB2 + BC2 = AC2

22500 + 22500 = AC2

45000 = AC2

The square root of 45000 is 212 (roughly)

So, now you're going 212 feet instead of 150.  Back to the formulas!

6 MPH = 31,680 feet/hr = 528 feet/minute = 8.8 feet/second
212/8.8= 24 seconds.

15 MPH = 79200 FPH = 1320 FPM = 22 f/s
22x24 = 528 feet

If you go on a 45 degree angle, start paddling about 530 feet away.  Make it 550, because who knows how exact your angle will be.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: Telarus on May 13, 2014, 04:57:05 PM
This whole conversation gave me hypothetical shivers down my spine.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 13, 2014, 05:29:30 PM
Fuck me, geometry aint so straightforward  :eek: I'ma try and get my head round round it but it might take a few reads.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 13, 2014, 05:30:33 PM
top of page

Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on May 13, 2014, 02:08:07 PM
Ok, we're moving on to geometry.  Tricky.


You've got a right triangle with a single side of 150', which is AB, below
(http://www.mathwarehouse.com/geometry/triangles/images/right-triangles/picture-of-right-triangle.png)
Before, you were simply going from A to B, where B is the zero point (meeting the ship).

Now, you're starting at A, and moving to C, which is the new zero point.

You're in luck, because a 45o right triangle has a special property in that both AB and BC are the same length.
You're also in luck, because the hypotenuse can be calculated with the handy dandy formula

AB2 + BC2 = AC2

22500 + 22500 = AC2

45000 = AC2

The square root of 45000 is 212 (roughly)

So, now you're going 212 feet instead of 150.  Back to the formulas!

6 MPH = 31,680 feet/hr = 528 feet/minute = 8.8 feet/second
212/8.8= 24 seconds.

15 MPH = 79200 FPH = 1320 FPM = 22 f/s
22x24 = 528 feet

If you go on a 45 degree angle, start paddling about 530 feet away.  Make it 550, because who knows how exact your angle will be.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: LMNO on May 13, 2014, 05:36:45 PM
Eh, the math is what it is.  I just laid it out rather than give you the final numbers.

If it helps, I can draw a picture.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on May 13, 2014, 05:42:06 PM
Nah, it's cool I got it now. I actually knew the sum of the two squares things, just hadn't realised that it could be applied to this.
:)
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: minuspace on May 27, 2014, 08:09:32 PM
I can't say if I'm absolutely or just relatively confused by most of/everything in this thread.  The only thing that reads for me is "quick".  As in I'd be the last to advise paddling in the wake of a tanker.  I think with a mass at that velocity in water, that you really want to reconsider your proximity.  I don't think that's the kind of undertow you can paddle away from?

[Ed.  I forgot you might be kite-surfing]
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on December 01, 2014, 04:47:31 PM
Some bodyboard wanker gone and beat me to it  :argh!:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10734264_10153337721439908_7254225811586675411_n.jpg?oh=99a49d4886ab786d428948c2d317b5c3&oe=550D93FE&__gda__=1423071562_e12e37a057e80b9f48340f2234182177)

Pretty epic shot, tho. Need to get this set up...
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: LMNO on December 01, 2014, 04:58:50 PM
 :eek:
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: Junkenstein on December 01, 2014, 06:47:35 PM
 :lulz:

More fun than they really wanted.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on December 01, 2014, 06:53:56 PM
Dude is six foot off the lip. Okay he's bodyboarding (points deducted there) but it's still a pretty awesome shot. That's exactly the kind of fun he was shooting for. And the shot? That shit puts you on the map. If I get one like that in a kayak, there's customers, there's sponsorship. It aint up there with Michael Jordan but a mate of mine gets free boats from one of the manufacturers. Other guys get paddles, kit. Good enough for me.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: Junkenstein on December 01, 2014, 06:57:42 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it was exactly what he was after. Just saying he probably had to change his suit when he got back to shore.
Title: Re: Couple of quick maths questions
Post by: Doktor Howl on December 01, 2014, 07:00:36 PM
I'm guessing he's Scottish.