Was just talking to a mate, at the weekend, about how solar was almost ready to destroy the oil economy. Come back home and find this. I'd seen a meme on facebook and thought it was some kind of photoshop wind up. Turns out team america might be on verge of actually saving the world this time. America! Fuck yeah!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlTA3rnpgzU#t=389 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlTA3rnpgzU#t=389)
That has potential.
I remain skeptical.
Quote from: Regret on May 26, 2014, 01:29:33 PM
That has potential.
I remain skeptical.
my emphasis
Not that I think you are necessarily wrong, but why?
I'm skeptical about everything.
I temper this with a best-guess at the potential of a given phenomena to manifest in more or less predictable form.
When I say this has potential, that's where I'm coming from. Level of certainty, timescales, cost, etc. All those are fairly fluid, while I'm hooked into monitoring progress.
One thing I'm more sceptical about - human civilisation existing as an organism, wholly dependent on a dwindling supply of dead old smushed up animals and plants to power their endeavours and being able to avoid the annihilation of their biosphere for much more than another handful of decades.
So it follows something has to happen. Either we all choke/freeze/melt in sulphur rain, or we revert to a pre technological society or some new kind of thing(s) come along and change the whole fucking landscape.
I discount the first two as hardly worth wasting time thinking about. Death faces me anyway and pre-tech would simply be how I spend my weekends until I couldn't hack it anymore and die. What I'm left with is waiting to see if some new idea comes along and saves the day and kills the baddies.
As far as potential new things goes, this sounds like one of the best ideas I've heard in a long while.
The guy who narrated that video gets it. It's practical but also just intrinsically awesome.
They already met their goal of raising $1 million, but they have 6 days left: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solar-roadways#home
Fuck yes!
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 26, 2014, 03:49:22 PM
I'm skeptical about everything.
I temper this with a best-guess at the potential of a given phenomena to manifest in more or less predictable form.
When I say this has potential, that's where I'm coming from. Level of certainty, timescales, cost, etc. All those are fairly fluid, while I'm hooked into monitoring progress.
One thing I'm more sceptical about - human civilisation existing as an organism, wholly dependent on a dwindling supply of dead old smushed up animals and plants to power their endeavours and being able to avoid the annihilation of their biosphere for much more than another handful of decades.
So it follows something has to happen. Either we all choke/freeze/melt in sulphur rain, or we revert to a pre technological society or some new kind of thing(s) come along and change the whole fucking landscape.
I discount the first two as hardly worth wasting time thinking about. Death faces me anyway and pre-tech would simply be how I spend my weekends until I couldn't hack it anymore and die. What I'm left with is waiting to see if some new idea comes along and saves the day and kills the baddies.
As far as potential new things goes, this sounds like one of the best ideas I've heard in a long while.
As is quite often the case: You say what is on my mind and do so quite eloquently.
My main thoughts go straight to durability issues. If they've got that covered this is pretty exciting.
Yeah... and how much does each panel-hex cost? That's the fundamental question.
QuoteCost
The specific cost and power output of the panels have not been released by Solar Roadways, thus the lifetime costs have not been determined by independent sources. However, Solar Roadways reported in a Wired article that a commercialized solar roadway would provide enough power to offset the cost over its lifespan. [4]
Brad Plumer of Vox is critical about the feasibility of the technology because of the cost. He contends that back in 2010, the company assumed that a 12' by 12' glass panel would cost around $10,000. Using this figure, he estimated that covering the approximately 30,000 square miles (~836 billion square feet) of roads in the U.S. would cost $56 trillion - nearly 20 times the annual Federal budget. [5] As of 2014, Solar Roadways has a new design and they are recalculating costs.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
Anyone want to do the calc on how long that would take for a small car park to pay for itself? I'm guessing centuries so that durability issue really better be fixed.
Right idea, wrong design.
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 27, 2014, 12:10:28 AM
Anyone want to do the calc on how long that would take for a small car park to pay for itself? I'm guessing centuries so that durability issue really better be fixed.
Right idea, wrong design.
You get 141 hex-panels for the cost of 1 cruise missile. :fnord:
That seems an absurd price for what each panel is. I'm curious whether each panel needs to be as intelligent as the next. Surely a leader/follower relationship would let them have smart panels controlling the comparatively dumb panels around them without any loss of functionality?
I'm ok with not being skeptical, and not being practical in this area. Humanity does its best work when it says, "fuck it, sky's the limit"
This got funded. That in and of itself is important. People are willing to throw down dough to fix the problem. This specific project might not pan out but it's a step in the right direction. Because it shows that the public is interested, and it shows the government that the public is interested.
Most importantly, it shows that it is profitable to fix the problem.
Thanks for showing me this, I spent half the day researching it and it's very interesting.
The FAQ on the website answers almost all of the concerns I had about it, including many that were mentioned ITT. Specifically, the bit that explained how they did impact testing and how it fares in comparison to asphalt, and lots about other potential issues. The only thing that wasn't really covered was price, but I think that the $10,000 estimate you quoted might have come from the $10k donation rank on the indiegogo campain giving the donater a full size unit, which ignores that the majority of the donation is funding the project, not the one single unit. Plus there's economy of scale and all. I'll save my speculation about costs until they say something official, but I think a gradual rollout as aging roads need work anyway could mitigate the cost a lot regardless.
I really like how Twid said it, it being profitable is the way it gets done, and I for one welcome our new solar hexagon overlords.
Also anyone consider that with its ability to sense weight and thus position and velocity of cars, the road will not only know if you are speeding, it could tell if you sucked horribly at driving and/or are drunk or drugged. It could also track the path(s) of pretty much anyone for the duration they or their vehicle were traveling on solar freakin' roadways.
But the sheer amount of lives it would save, from lack of snow and ice, improved traction compared to asphalt, and LED-lit roads at night warning of animals or children or idiots in the roadway ahead, could be worth having to actually drive the speed limit and the NSA knowing where I drove yesterday, without having to read my texts to find out.
Quote from: trix on May 27, 2014, 03:58:29 AM
Thanks for showing me this, I spent half the day researching it and it's very interesting.
The FAQ on the website answers almost all of the concerns I had about it, including many that were mentioned ITT. Specifically, the bit that explained how they did impact testing and how it fares in comparison to asphalt, and lots about other potential issues. The only thing that wasn't really covered was price, but I think that the $10,000 estimate you quoted might have come from the $10k donation rank on the indiegogo campain giving the donater a full size unit, which ignores that the majority of the donation is funding the project, not the one single unit. Plus there's economy of scale and all. I'll save my speculation about costs until they say something official, but I think a gradual rollout as aging roads need work anyway could mitigate the cost a lot regardless.
I really like how Twid said it, it being profitable is the way it gets done, and I for one welcome our new solar hexagon overlords.
Also anyone consider that with its ability to sense weight and thus position and velocity of cars, the road will not only know if you are speeding, it could tell if you sucked horribly at driving and/or are drunk or drugged. It could also track the path(s) of pretty much anyone for the duration they or their vehicle were traveling on solar freakin' roadways.
But the sheer amount of lives it would save, from lack of snow and ice, improved traction compared to asphalt, and LED-lit roads at night warning of animals or children or idiots in the roadway ahead, could be worth having to actually drive the speed limit and the NSA knowing where I drove yesterday, without having to read my texts to find out.
Even just on an energy level, it's sold for me.
But we still think in terms of profit. This thing raised over a million dollars. Invest motherfuckers! Money is right there in them thar energy producing streets. You know how it is, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, and while you're at it make it look like caviar served on a naked pee-on in some rich douche's penthouse. The revolution is pointless if we're all going to fucking die tomorrow.
The first prototype of anything costs 10kilobucks. The second costs 1k. The first mass production run will bring that down to 100 or so. Within a year or two it's $10. Looks like a bog standard tech roadmap to me. I'm not too worried about the price.
One trick these guys are missing is kinetic conversion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UibdP4zPaw). Would add a little bang for buck, fairly cheaply.
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 26, 2014, 10:21:52 PM
My main thoughts go straight to durability issues. If they've got that covered this is pretty exciting.
This
Quote from: The Johnny on May 26, 2014, 11:53:49 PM
Yeah... and how much does each panel-hex cost? That's the fundamental question.
And this.
It's interesting, not necessarily feasible, and kind of ignores that it's butting right up against the issue of non-permeable surfacing.
The surface is far more durable than tarmac/concrete. The cost of the individual panels are inversely proportional to qty required. Materials cost over traditional process may well be mitigated by the labour savings, especially at the maintenance/repair end.
Don't forget that we shouldn't be comparing this like for like with the cost of bitumen. We also need to factor in the cost of powering the towns and cities. Any budget earmarked for nuke and fossil fuel power and infrastructure can be spent here.
Maybe the fact that it looks like some kind of road may be causing confusion?
Maybe the fact that it is speculative might be causing healthy skepticism.
Further thoughts:
Continual obsolescence - As tech improves, the roadways already laid will either need to be removed or replaced to ensure best results
Durability - This is the big one for me. Look at any given road surface. Perfect condition, right? While this could be an improvement in that area I'd still have to think worst case situation here. Imagine a medium sized car/truck crash. How many panels would this probably damage and need replacing? Overall, the design could be done so this aspect is much quicker than the traditional road making methods but it becomes a problem if you're replacing panels all the time, everywhere. This could probably be sold as job creation though so there's that angle too.
There's also the issue that you'll need to either work with existing surfaces resulting in fairly extensive enabling works. Or you could just use these in new projects but you'll still probably need some kind of solid, stable surface to place them on. Like a road. So this becomes the surface layer of roads?
Cost - Tied heavily to durability. More durable things tend to have increased production costs. I'm not sure on what a full road costs per SQ/M any more, but they're probably a long, long way from making it close to comparable. Many associated benefits sometimes just don't outweigh the reality of the budget you have to spend. This will probably require substantial incentives and subsidies to get rolling and I doubt there's much political will for that anywhere that's still talking about Austerity. Everywhere, then.
Energy production - While I doubt anyone has any problems with Solar, the project seems to miss out on something else, mainly kinetic energy. (Very fuzzy) idea, but if you had a series of panels that shifted slightly as a vehicle moved over it, you may be able to capture and store the energy created from that tilt. I'm thinking something related to wave power/ sea snake ideas
http://defence.pk/threads/saltire-prize-medal-for-inventor-of-pelamis-wave-sea-snake.168701/
(Bad link but you can find more/better)
My thinking is with busy roads you've got a nearly constant flow of cars so if there was a way to store even a small amount of power per vehicle passing you could probably generate reasonable amounts.
Despite the various issues, I'm overall fairly supportive of this. Personally, I'd prefer to see substantially larger wind/wave operations prior to this as the issues there are somewhat easier to overcome. If I had serious money I'd probably be going all out to build a wave operation substantially larger than all existing ones combined. I'm not entirely sure why some crazy millionaire with money hasn't done some kind of deal with sealand or somesuch place to make this happen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand
Thinking about that, this needs Dutch or German involvement as a matter of priority, assuming they're not already.
Edit - Typos. Idiot typos everywhere.
Must admit I'm not totally sold on wave/tide barrage collection. They're supposed to be running a couple of pilots in scotland and it's fast turning into an unworkable clusterfuck. If you want to use water then pumped storage hydros seem to be thee best route we currently have.
They're in the process of doubling the capacity at Cruachan. If we get independence in September, we probably won't even need solar roads but for the rest of the world, it might just save your lives!
The angle that sold me on wave over hydro was that the sea is always there and moving. Generating power to pump water back to generate more power just seems a bit of a pointless to me when there's a water source that can constantly provide power without any fucking about. A large scale wave operation is potentially an economic godsend all round, from the construction phases through lifespan.
That said, I suppose the real breakthroughs will start happening when multiple production sources are tied together. Wind turbines covered in solar panels, roads that generate from Solar/Kinetic and thermal(possible, surely? Florida roads get fucking HOT. Arizona probably melt feet.)
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 27, 2014, 08:58:37 AM
The angle that sold me on wave over hydro was that the sea is always there and moving. Generating power to pump water back to generate more power just seems a bit of a pointless to me when there's a water source that can constantly provide power without any fucking about. A large scale wave operation is potentially an economic godsend all round, from the construction phases through lifespan.
That said, I suppose the real breakthroughs will start happening when multiple production sources are tied together. Wind turbines covered in solar panels, roads that generate from Solar/Kinetic and thermal(possible, surely? Florida roads get fucking HOT. Arizona probably melt feet.)
It is couterintuitive but it makes perfect sense when you understand that what they are essentially doing is storing electricity, by the gigawatt, in a huge, wet battery. Try doing that with lead and acid and see where it gets you. So say there's no wind, it's a dull day and the tide is currently slack. It's peak usage o'clock and you got no more generators. What's the plan? Brownout?
Not if you've fully charged your lochs, it isn't (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station). 8)
That's just it though, the tide is pretty much never slack. At least, not slack to the point where it would stop producing energy.
I get the hydro argument and it does stack up on paper and in reality. I suppose it's the moving water around in the same place that makes it a bit less appealing to me, I'd rather move as much shit off-shore and into a perpetual basis. Pumps break and I'm sure hydro stations suffer similar kinds of fatigue as other installations. Why not simplify the whole structure by removing the need to do 50% of the process?
I suppose Wave could be used to augment hydro as the constant/(hopefully eventual) surplus of power provides the ideal way to power the aforementioned pumps. That would possibly allow for an interesting expansion of both with each being somewhat reliant on the other. Wave can't store energy very well and Hydro provides an excellent storage mechanism. If the level of water stored could be increased further, you're probably looking at a very clean future.
Also, I'm thinking what can be used effectively in other places. Many nations have sea access but not as many have effective potential hydro sites. It could be an good market for island nations to start to try and get into, particularly if they're close enough to neighbours to lay cables and export the surplus.
Yeah, scotland is uniquely placed with regards potential hydro storage sites. It's the same reason we don't run out of water in droughts where the rest of the uk does - we essentially bank our flood water :lulz:
With tide energy it's a pretty straightforward formula, along a bell curve, over a 12 hour cycle. First hour = 33% flow, 2nd hour 66%, hours 3 and four is full tilt, hour 5 66%, hour 6 33%. There's a half hour or so of zero flow (slack water) then the cycle repeats in the opposite direction for the next 6 hours.
This whole issue becomes moot if we start using solar freaking roadways, tho :wink:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 27, 2014, 09:43:17 AM
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 27, 2014, 08:58:37 AM
The angle that sold me on wave over hydro was that the sea is always there and moving. Generating power to pump water back to generate more power just seems a bit of a pointless to me when there's a water source that can constantly provide power without any fucking about. A large scale wave operation is potentially an economic godsend all round, from the construction phases through lifespan.
That said, I suppose the real breakthroughs will start happening when multiple production sources are tied together. Wind turbines covered in solar panels, roads that generate from Solar/Kinetic and thermal(possible, surely? Florida roads get fucking HOT. Arizona probably melt feet.)
It is couterintuitive but it makes perfect sense when you understand that what they are essentially doing is storing electricity, by the gigawatt, in a huge, wet battery. Try doing that with lead and acid and see where it gets you. So say there's no wind, it's a dull day and the tide is currently slack. It's peak usage o'clock and you got no more generators. What's the plan? Brownout?
Not if you've fully charged your lochs, it isn't (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station). 8)
Yeah, the tide is slack for about a total of an hour per day. There's no reason that tidal power isn't fully feasible and immediately useable.
That's sold me even more on large scale tidal power. 23 hours of generation for free daily is pretty solid, even if only a small period of that is max production it would say to me to increase the scale so that the 33% and 66% times are able to cover domestic needs and use with anything at peak or additionally produced can just get sold back. Assume that you're working big enough to cover your hydro power needs and you're looking at a monstrous project with potential upsides everywhere. Employment? Yes. Ongoing new industry sector based around maintenance and refurb? Yes. The scale of the kind of thing I'm thinking of would probably be a multi-generation project. Seems a little more sensible than running around the north sea arguing about who's oil it is and how much there is there.
And the thread title may have just been a touch of flippancy, but unless we're inventing some new thing to drive along the solar roadways I don't see how this would be the last nail in the coffin of the petro-economy, more's the pity.
Recharge stations at every mile-marker?
Constant re-charge? I seem to recall something about an electric car that could charge while driving provided it was in a certain lane or somesuch.
Yeah, the designers are already talking about magnetic resonance induction charging tesla-fashion.
The tide thing still isn't going to work unless you can find some way of storing the power, given that peak and low output cycles are dictated by the moon, rather than usage patterns. So one day peak usage happens right on peak output and everyone gets a cup of coffee during the commercial break. Problem is the next day peak output is an hour late, the day after it's two hours.
Tidal generation is not on-demand. The grid is. I'm definitely leaning toward solar, right now. I was leaning toward solar even before they started making roads out of it. The rate of solar cell efficiency is accelerating like fuck meanwhile they're still trying to figure out what a tidal turbine is even going to look like.
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 27, 2014, 08:29:27 AM
Energy production - While I doubt anyone has any problems with Solar, the project seems to miss out on something else, mainly kinetic energy. (Very fuzzy) idea, but if you had a series of panels that shifted slightly as a vehicle moved over it, you may be able to capture and store the energy created from that tilt. I'm thinking something related to wave power/ sea snake ideas
http://defence.pk/threads/saltire-prize-medal-for-inventor-of-pelamis-wave-sea-snake.168701/
(Bad link but you can find more/better)
My thinking is with busy roads you've got a nearly constant flow of cars so if there was a way to store even a small amount of power per vehicle passing you could probably generate reasonable amounts.
Junkenstein, the kinetic energy harvest you're thinking of, something l ike this? http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/jun/15/sainsburys-kinetic-plates-speed-bumps
Nice find! Glad to know it already exists. And yes, take that kind of concept and do it everywhere you can. Road surfaces would be great but even just car parks would be a decent step
The other thing that strikes me is that this doesn't just draw attention to futuristic smart-roads from the future, it also suggests that solar power is getting close to tipping point. It'll happen with graphene/nanotube collection if it hasn't already. I don't need the wifi connectivity or the fancy glass or the disco-lights. If I can cover my roof in just the sun cells I'm sorted. Fuck the rest of the world, they can go on killing the planet to their hearts content - I meet my maker with a clear conscience :evil:
I was actually thinking about graphene in relation to this. If it's possible to get that stuff on a roll so you could just add a thin surface layer to existing roads/car parks/paths/etc pretty much on demand as required then you're talking future territory for sure. The cheaper, easier and quicker it is to re-surface places the faster this would catch on.
Of course, that's fairly reliant on some big advances with graphene in the mid future but it seems relatively realistic. I guess it just depends what the unit cost comes down to on an industrial scale.
I'm going to have to look a bit more into where the relative efficiencies lie at the moment. My gut is saying wave and wind for the best overall production options when scaled up correctly but that's mainly due to the consistency of the supply rather than best possible energy output. I have a horrible feeling that nothing is close to diesel however.
Found the test stats (http://solarroadways.com/numbers.shtml)
I think it's an awesome idea if it pans out, especially as storage improves. But I've seen so many "huge breakthroughs" in technology that just sort of piddled out that I'm not really going to get excited about it unless it starts going in on my street.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 27, 2014, 08:29:21 PM
Found the test stats (http://solarroadways.com/numbers.shtml)
I'll dig through this shortly.
Also on that site:
http://solarroadways.com/prototypeII.shtml
There are some serious issues to address in the FAQ, you can tell where this is going to run into problems by the way they're thinking about shit. Example:
QuoteHow will you replace damaged panels in a highway?
Since our system is modular, repair will be much quicker and easier than our current maintenance system for asphalt roads. We've learned that in the U.S., over $160 billion is lost each year in lost productivity from people sitting in traffic due to road maintenance.
Each of the panels contain their own microprocessor, which communicates wireless with surrounding panels. If one of them should become damaged and stop communicating, then the rest of the panels can report the problem. For instance, "I-95 mile marker 114.3 northbound lane, third panel in, panel number A013C419 not responding".
Each panel assembly weighs 110-pounds. A single operator could load a good panel into his/her truck and respond to the scene. The panel could be swapped out and reprogrammed in a few minutes. The damaged panel would then be returned to a repair center. Think of how this compares to pot hole repair!
I'm pretty sure that while one guy could throw around 50KG without too many problems, H+S regs would have a fucking field day and there would be workmen's comp claims going on everywhere.
QuoteHow much weight can these panels support? Semi-trucks get pretty heavy!
Originally, we were designing toward 80,000 pounds. That was supposed to be the maximum legal limit for a semi-truck. However, we live in logging country and a former logging truck driver informed us that they don't have scales in the woods and that he'd topped out at 124,000 pounds. So we decided that we should go for 150,000 pounds. We then learned that oil companies can get permission to move refinery equipment up to 230,000 pounds on frozen roads, so we decided to shoot for 250,000 pounds.
Both 3D Finite Element Method analysis and actual load testing at civil engineering labs showed that our Solar Road Panels can handle that and more.
I'd really like more details on the nature of that testing. They claim that all tests have passed with exceptional results and then make no mention of the actual nature of the tests.
Mention they may have an indicative unit cost around july. That's going to be what makes or breaks it for the near future I'd guess.
It sounds like they're getting to the point where they really need a bastard who knows business in order to get this moving in a big way. They need to be doing much more than what they currently are. You should be lining up orders now and offering famous faces the roadway at cost to raise awareness etc.
I've said for a few years that one of the main problems with the green movement is that it's got no idea about how to sell itself effectively. I'm concerned to see these seem to make similar kinds of mistakes.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 27, 2014, 02:50:13 PM
Yeah, the designers are already talking about magnetic resonance induction charging tesla-fashion.
The tide thing still isn't going to work unless you can find some way of storing the power, given that peak and low output cycles are dictated by the moon, rather than usage patterns. So one day peak usage happens right on peak output and everyone gets a cup of coffee during the commercial break. Problem is the next day peak output is an hour late, the day after it's two hours.
Tidal generation is not on-demand. The grid is. I'm definitely leaning toward solar, right now. I was leaning toward solar even before they started making roads out of it. The rate of solar cell efficiency is accelerating like fuck meanwhile they're still trying to figure out what a tidal turbine is even going to look like.
A nifty idea, but still speculative as it is not (AFAIK) built or priced into the current model.
As for the tidal, while it's still only commercially feasible in a handful of places in the world it's pretty interesting to those of us who live in those places. Here's what's happening a few blocks down the street from me: https://penobscotbaypress.com/news/2014/jan/2/mma-approved-for-commercial-scale-tidal-energy-tes/
as for what they look like: http://inhabitat.com/maine-launches-the-first-commercial-tidal-power-project-in-the-us/eastport-maine/
Admittedly, it helps when you have some of the highest tides in the world. But so, if I'm not mistaken, does Scotland.
Nah, our ranges pale in comparison to the US and even parts of england that poke out off the shelf. Our west coast makes up for this with a million and one constriction channels, funneling the pressure (think Skookumchuck but pretty much fucking everywhere) there's 10-12 knots to be had in a lot of places on springs for a couple of hours a day and a hell of a sight less at neaps.
Thing is, the races and sounds happen because the channels are shallow and narrow, so there's only a couple of spots they can sink a turbine that won't block shipping. There was talk of one going in at Kyleakin on Skye but I think that's been scrapped now cos everybody thought it was a shit idea.
Barrage collection could work but again the problem comes down to a sub 5meter mean spring range
Yeah, I see why that would be a problem. TBH, tidal generation is probably more suited to Maine and the Maritime Provinces than anywhere else in the world with the possible exceptions of southern Chile and Argentina.
On the plus side, we've almost got more windmills than trees now and we're fast approaching the 50% renewable milestone. With a bit of luck we can cut the deadweight down south, come september, install some solar roads and ride off into the sunset waving our hairy middle fingers.
This will be helped massively if (as I'm beginning to suspect) there's been some big advances in PV cells that I wasn't paying attention to (moore's law corollary maybe?) leading to an impending cost-effective off-grid domestic solar solution. We already got companies subsidised to install panels for free, giving us free leccy and making profit from the excess juice but I'd rather do it myself if it's worthwhile.
Idiot idea, badly expressed because phone: apply to people if possible? Small solar cell on clothing go charge phone etc? Something about footfall possible here too, apply car park kinetic logic to shopping centres and such.
Put it on NASCAR tracks, so we can finally get something useful out of that god-forsaken "sport"
Oh, tidal capture. I kept thinking what Oregon was doing (which isn't tidal), and that totally threw me. Oregon is going for wave-action capture.
(looks for link, notices the project is bust)
http://earthtechling.com/2014/03/opts-planned-oregon-wave-energy-project-falters-again/
Seems I was right about PV price/performance heading toward feasibility (http://www.oxfordpv.com/oxford-pv-news/lead-free-perovskite-cells-could-speed-up-delivery-of-low-cost-solar-power)
Graphene and some new crap called Perovskite.
QuoteWe have been predicting that our cells could generate power for as little as $0.20/Watt but this could drive down costs even further
The last I heard it was more than 4 times that!
Quote from: Raz Tech on May 28, 2014, 05:24:40 PM
Put it on NASCAR tracks, so we can finally get something useful out of that god-forsaken "sport"
Hate NASCAR now? Imagine how much you'll hate it in about 10-15 years when it's now a highly exclusive "sport". The gentrification of NASCAR is coming.
The internal combustion engine has had it's day. What's coming is motherfucken Wipeout (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ6pvIINrR4)
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 29, 2014, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: Raz Tech on May 28, 2014, 05:24:40 PM
Put it on NASCAR tracks, so we can finally get something useful out of that god-forsaken "sport"
Hate NASCAR now? Imagine how much you'll hate it in about 10-15 years when it's now a highly exclusive "sport". The gentrification of NASCAR is coming.
I'll still hate it the same amount. You see, the utter pointlessness of the whole thing, combined with the absurd amount of fans who insist (constantly) that I only don't like it because I don't understand all the science and tactics behind it has caused me to reach a type of searing rage/hate plateau for the thing as a whole.
Yes, I know how a slipstream works. Yes, I know you have to time pit stops perfectly. I still don't give a shit. Go back to your crystal meth den.
They added Nascar to Gran Turismo 5. I was active on a couple of GT forums at the time and there was much arguing with the Nascar fans who were saying "give it a chance, it's awesome" and "It's about much more than just driving round in circles"
So I gave it a chance. It wasn't awesome. It was 99% driving round in circles with a little flurry of overtaking, right at the end. Reminded me of Ebay, if you watched the whole auction, rather than logging on for the last couple of minutes.
Fuck Nascar - it's boring and retarded :argh!:
Quote from: Raz Tech on May 29, 2014, 12:08:10 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 29, 2014, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: Raz Tech on May 28, 2014, 05:24:40 PM
Put it on NASCAR tracks, so we can finally get something useful out of that god-forsaken "sport"
Hate NASCAR now? Imagine how much you'll hate it in about 10-15 years when it's now a highly exclusive "sport". The gentrification of NASCAR is coming.
I'll still hate it the same amount. You see, the utter pointlessness of the whole thing, combined with the absurd amount of fans who insist (constantly) that I only don't like it because I don't understand all the science and tactics behind it has caused me to reach a type of searing rage/hate plateau for the thing as a whole.
Yes, I know how a slipstream works. Yes, I know you have to time pit stops perfectly. I still don't give a shit. Go back to your crystal meth den.
I like your style. You're really working out quite well here at PD.
I honestly don't think either of you are ready for what NASCAR will become when the petroeconomy puts the cost of driving in circles into the hands of the ultra rich alone.
You see those solid gold Rolls Royces and such? All the ridiculous super-cars made in editions of single figures for Multi-billionaires?
Imagine that, as the biggest sporting and social event of the month. At that point it won't even be about the value of the car, but the value of fuel consumed going in a circle. You won't be able to avoid or ignore it either. It'll be everywhere and EVERYONE will want to talk to you about it.
(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y412/Ironmaiden6972/Mobile%20Uploads/graph_zpsc5491c32.jpg) (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/Ironmaiden6972/media/Mobile%20Uploads/graph_zpsc5491c32.jpg.html)
I created this simple graph to help you understand, where the bottom is the year and the side is a numerical representation of my hate. As you can see, I've clearly reached the Satan ass-fucking Hitler plateau, and once you're that high on anger, there's no coming down.
:lulz:
Take a bow good sir, that's classic.
Make this guy a level 4 user, he's one of us.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on May 29, 2014, 11:47:44 AM
Seems I was right about PV price/performance heading toward feasibility (http://www.oxfordpv.com/oxford-pv-news/lead-free-perovskite-cells-could-speed-up-delivery-of-low-cost-solar-power)
Graphene and some new crap called Perovskite.
QuoteWe have been predicting that our cells could generate power for as little as $0.20/Watt but this could drive down costs even further
The last I heard it was more than 4 times that!
Sn perovskite panels are extremely inefficient, around 6% efficiency, though given enough time they could catch up to Pb perovskite panels (which are maxing at about 16%, still pretty inefficient compared to the nearly 40% efficiency of some photovoltaic panels (well, technically some photovoltaic panels are close to 45% efficiency, but those are crazy expensive). Sn is problematic to work with from what I've read, due to instability in its ionized form, so who knows where that'll go.
Quote from: Raz Tech on May 28, 2014, 05:24:40 PM
Put it on NASCAR tracks, so we can finally get something useful out of that god-forsaken "sport"
:lulz: I really like you.
Ok, newb seems pretty good
:lulz:
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 29, 2014, 08:43:09 PM
:lulz:
Take a bow good sir, that's classic.
Make this guy a level 4 user, he's one of us.
God damnit, now my head is going "Gooble gobble one of us"
And I hope that thanks to this post, yours is doing the same. :evil:
Quote from: trix on July 09, 2014, 04:59:24 PM
Quote from: Junkenstein on May 29, 2014, 08:43:09 PM
:lulz:
Take a bow good sir, that's classic.
Make this guy a level 4 user, he's one of us.
God damnit, now my head is going "Gooble gobble one of us"
And I hope that thanks to this post, yours is doing the same. :evil:
I'm kinda disturbed we all saw the same movie.
I'd be more surprised at the number of self-professed Discordians that haven't seen "Freaks".
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 10, 2014, 11:55:26 AM
I'd be more surprised at the number of self-professed Discordians that haven't seen "Freaks".
I can't say I see the Discordian angle in that movie, apart from the constant horrormirth.
Oh well, I guess I forgot that I'm dealing with a higher class of people here.
No, no Discordian themes, but the outright weirdness seems appealing.
So long as America is one of the world's top oil producers (http://americasmarkets.usatoday.com/2014/07/08/u-s-oil-production-in-2015-to-be-highest-since-1972/) there will be no nails in the petroeconomy, final or otherwise. Just FYI.
When I first saw this thread's title for some reason I read it as "penectomy" instead of "petroconomy". I wonder what Freud would have to say about that.
Quote from: Prelate Diogenes Shandor on January 14, 2015, 07:28:29 AM
When I first saw this thread's title for some reason I read it as "penectomy" instead of "petroconomy". I wonder what Freud would have to say about that.
"Sweet, bro." -Freud