ddate is a command-line utility that for a very long time came standard with most Linux distributions as part of the "binutils" package, and when executed displays the current discordian date. Recently, one particular upstream maintainer of the binutils package decided this very tiny 12k utility was not worthy of inclusion and removed it, despite a rather large amount of negative feedback and absolutely no benefit to doing so. This prompted many many bug reports and other bitching, due to many people (myself included) using ddate in various scripts to various effect.
Is anyone else annoyed at this? I mean sure, some distros handle it themselves, either by adding a separate "ddate" package into the repository or by using an older version of binutils or even by patching the upstream binutils to reinclude ddate.
But still, I either have to revert to an older binutils, rewrite about a dozen scripts per computer in each of the 16 PC's in my cluster, or wait until each of my OS's add ddate directly to the repo and download it. Or do a fuckload of patching. Not the end of the world, but an annoyance for no good reason whatsofuckingever.
Speaking of which, on an unrelated note, I have a ton of decent computers (average power = Core2Duo cpu with dedicated ATI HD 2400 Pro video card and 3GB RAM) that I got for free, by replacing all of them at my brother's work with newer models and being gifted the old ones for my trouble. Anyone that pays for shipping can have one, for free. I'll even toss in a keyboard and monitor, though I am low on mice so you'll need one of those. First come first serve until I run out of extras, have about 8 I'm not using right now, and another 5-10 coming next week.
Anyway back on topic. What the fuck. The guy that changed binutils responded to all the complaints with (and I'm paraphrasing strongly here) "Yeah well I don't use it so everyone else can go fuck themselves". I'd congratulate him on some very excellent trolling, if I believed that was his true purpose, but I think it's more likely that he just really is a prick.
No real point to this post, most of you wont give one whit of a shit, I guess I just need to vent my frustration before I start rewriting some scripts.
I'd be interested in a computer, depending on how much shipping would be?
I'll even send you something pretty made out of glass.
Quote from: trix on October 10, 2014, 04:55:29 AM
ddate is a command-line utility that for a very long time came standard with most Linux distributions as part of the "binutils" package, and when executed displays the current discordian date. Recently, one particular upstream maintainer of the binutils package decided this very tiny 12k utility was not worthy of inclusion and removed it, despite a rather large amount of negative feedback and absolutely no benefit to doing so. This prompted many many bug reports and other bitching, due to many people (myself included) using ddate in various scripts to various effect.
Is anyone else annoyed at this? I mean sure, some distros handle it themselves, either by adding a separate "ddate" package into the repository or by using an older version of binutils or even by patching the upstream binutils to reinclude ddate.
But still, I either have to revert to an older binutils, rewrite about a dozen scripts per computer in each of the 16 PC's in my cluster, or wait until each of my OS's add ddate directly to the repo and download it. Or do a fuckload of patching. Not the end of the world, but an annoyance for no good reason whatsofuckingever.
Speaking of which, on an unrelated note, I have a ton of decent computers (average power = Core2Duo cpu with dedicated ATI HD 2400 Pro video card and 3GB RAM) that I got for free, by replacing all of them at my brother's work with newer models and being gifted the old ones for my trouble. Anyone that pays for shipping can have one, for free. I'll even toss in a keyboard and monitor, though I am low on mice so you'll need one of those. First come first serve until I run out of extras, have about 8 I'm not using right now, and another 5-10 coming next week.
Anyway back on topic. What the fuck. The guy that changed binutils responded to all the complaints with (and I'm paraphrasing strongly here) "Yeah well I don't use it so everyone else can go fuck themselves". I'd congratulate him on some very excellent trolling, if I believed that was his true purpose, but I think it's more likely that he just really is a prick.
No real point to this post, most of you wont give one whit of a shit, I guess I just need to vent my frustration before I start rewriting some scripts.
Sign me up for a free halfway decent computer! How do I make this happen?
What sorts of things were you relying on this ddate script for?
Maybe this guy wasn't remotely aware of what he was wrecking by simply omitting it.
Hrm, looks like lessons about snubbing eris have not been learned.
Unix fails to include ddate.
Massive security vulnerability found in Unix. Coincidence? I think not.
Card looks interesting, but my current setup should suffice for now...assuming it actually gets fixed.
For Public record: The princicipiadiscordia.com server proudly uses Debian and when I log in via ssh I am greeted with the current DDATE.
It makes me very sad that we have been victims of religious persecution over this tiny 12k token :(
This is the person who removed it: https://github.com/karelzak
Looks kinda outlandish.
Quote from: Faust on October 10, 2014, 07:56:22 AM
For Public record: The princicipiadiscordia.com server proudly uses Debian and when I log in via ssh I am greeted with the current DDATE.
It makes me very sad that we have been victims of religious persecution over this tiny 12k token :(
Yeah my girlfriend uses Debian on her laptop (well, Kali, but Debian based) and Debian was one of the first distros to solve the ddate problem in their own repo, and the first to file a bug report on it that I noticed (and I watch the bug trackers like a hawk when my shit breaks).
Quote from: N E T on October 10, 2014, 07:12:26 AM
What sorts of things were you relying on this ddate script for?
Maybe this guy wasn't remotely aware of what he was wrecking by simply omitting it.
Well, on the one hand most of my greeting scripts (the ones that run upon logging in) included the ddate, but that's not an issue as those just omit it when it's broken. But I had a good amount of other scripts that used various syntax of ddate as a sort of a random generator when I don't really need that much random. I've also been trying to memorize the Discordian calendar, though with no success thus far. For that last purpose though, this drama has helped rather than hindered, due to turning my attention to the utility.
Quote from: Your Mom on October 10, 2014, 04:59:59 AM
I'd be interested in a computer, depending on how much shipping would be?
No idea? I live in Wisconsin. I have not a dime to my name so any expense is on you. The PC's are all Dell Omniplex 755 and 745. I have 8 of them available, but only two extra monitors until I get the next load of equipment, which should also include several printers and other stuff. I can even include a free printer/scanner/fax combo thing (Epson stylus cx3200 is the model closest to my chair ATM) assuming I get a few more on the next load like I was told. Currently I only have two though, and I'm keeping one and dismantling the other to steal parts from so I can make a robot.
Anyway if you look up shipping from Waukesha, WI to your house (Portland?) and are willing to pay it I can start prepping it for you. Just tell me what OS you want (choices are: Windows Vista Ultimate with valid CDKEY printed on the case, Linux of any flavor, or both) and I will get started formatting and installing OS and drivers. Keep in mind that the hard drive is only 50GB though, so if you choose to have both Windows and Linux you will be low on space for both, and will have to tell me what ratio to partition the drives in.
Also I'll have to look up the glass stuff you make to know what you mean, but if you feel you must give me something back for my efforts, you could always make me a delicious, healthy, home made meal and ship it... if that's doable. I don't know how shipping food works though so that might be a stupid idea. I'm just so goddamn sick of noodles I sometimes skip an entire day of eating and drink lots of water instead.
Quote from: N E T on October 10, 2014, 07:12:26 AM
Sign me up for a free halfway decent computer! How do I make this happen?
See above for Nigel. Same plan, tell me what I need to know to set up your computer, and look up shipping prices from me to you.
Oh I should also mention, the specs I listed are for the PC I'm currently using, there's a few different specs within the Omniplex 745-755 line so your specific PC may very. The best I have is the specs I posted (Core2Duo etc) and the worst I have is a Pentium D (dual core) with 2GB RAM and ATI X1300 Pro.
Err actually the worst I have is much worse than that but I'm not giving away the very old ones, I like the old ones.
Also specify if you want keyboard, monitor and printer. Like I said I don't have extra mice, but I do have these tiny Dell LCD monitors and decent USB keyboards. As for printer, I can tell you within a week if I have extras I can give away.
Also FAUST, that makes me happy that PD is hosted on Debian! That's my second favorite distro behind only Gentoo (Portage is amazing!).
Oh and I made a mistake, ddate is part of util-linux not binutils. Gimme a break, it's 5am and I haven't slept since the other day.
Also, another mistake, the computers are Dell OPTIPLEX, not Omniplex.
Fuck I am tired.
Also an interesting anecdote is this manpage correction for ddate, mentioning Emperor Norton: (https://github.com/bo0ts/ddate/pull/6/files)
.\" All Rites Reversed. This file is in the PUBLIC DOMAIN.
.\" Kallisti.
-.TH DDATE 1 "Bureaucracy 3161" "util-linux" "Emperor Norton User Command"
+.TH DDATE 1 "Bureaucracy 3161" "ddate" "Emperor Norton User Command"
.SH NAME
ddate \- convert Gregorian dates to Discordian dates
.SH SYNOPSIS
And the above is precisely why I love nerds and geeks so goddamn much sometimes.
QuoteErr actually the worst I have is much worse than that but I'm not giving away the very old ones, I like the old ones
I met a guy the other day who's got an old 486 running 24/7. It is calculating Pi, one extra number at a time. Basically all it's displaying is:
3.1
3.14
3.141
3.1415
And so on. His entire reason to for doing this was "I want to see how long it takes it to break". I can respect that.
Oh also (sorry for the quadruple post) I don't have a scale and my tape measure is missing, so I had to look up and download the technical reference PDF on the optiplex series to get the dimensions and weight, which you will need to calculate shipping costs:
DIMENSIONS:
H: 16.3" W: 7.3" D: 17.3"
WEIGHT: 25.8 lbs. for tower only, 43.5lbs including all packaging materials
That's just for the tower itself, the monitor will add more. I will probably use whatever box UPS or FEDEX or whoever you use sells me, since I don't have empty ones. So if I were you I'd count on 50lbs weight, and for dimensions just use the dimensions of whatever box the shipping service sells that's big enough for everything.
I'm probably over-thinking this, I wonder if I can just take the whole mess to the UPS office and have them ship it cash-on-delivery instead of all the other crap. I don't really ship stuff so I have no idea how it works, I'm just guessing.
Quote from: Junkenstein on October 10, 2014, 10:00:19 AM
QuoteErr actually the worst I have is much worse than that but I'm not giving away the very old ones, I like the old ones
I met a guy the other day who's got an old 486 running 24/7. It is calculating Pi, one extra number at a time. Basically all it's displaying is:
3.1
3.14
3.141
3.1415
And so on. His entire reason to for doing this was "I want to see how long it takes it to break". I can respect that.
Hehe, sounds like my kind of geek! I have an old 486 IBM PS/2 running MSDOS, Windows 3.11, and Linux Mandrake (not Mandriva... Mandrake). I still have the old DOOM installed on it, because I lost the pile of floppy disks long ago and cannot reinstall it.
OH I was reading another thread and was reminded of the awesome Googley Eyes thing.
Feel free to substitute the meal or your glassware with googley eyes! I'd love a pile of those to start sticking on things. That'd totally be worth the OS/driver install and driving the PC to the UPS store.
I'd get months of fun from those things! I just can't ever seem to remember to dig up some change and go get some.
But in seriousness, none is required for this offer. The effort is worth getting some of my space back in the cluster room so I can fill it back up with disassembled printer and CDRW parts.
Sadly, it looks like all shipping options are outside of my current budget. :( Cheapest is about $80, which is great for a computer but more than I have. Thanks though!
Ick, yeah that's a bit much just to get it there. Sorry =(.
How about you, NET? Still interested?
Too bad you guys are so far away, I've kind of become the local Free Computer Store and fix upgrade or work on people's computers for whatever random thing they want to offer, or nothing at all because I enjoy doing it and get leftover parts from it.
A) Fuck that guy, that's messing with years of backwards compatibility. As a software tester by day, I shudder.
B) Nigel, if you want to go in on shipping, I may be able to do that next month. Probably cheeper to ship 2 together and then split it. I'd love another PC, as I've been looking at distributed rendering but only have 2 PCs in the house (you don't get that much time saving until 3+).
Quote from: Telarus on October 11, 2014, 07:39:10 AM
A) Fuck that guy, that's messing with years of backwards compatibility. As a software tester by day, I shudder.
B) Nigel, if you want to go in on shipping, I may be able to do that next month. Probably cheeper to ship 2 together and then split it. I'd love another PC, as I've been looking at distributed rendering but only have 2 PCs in the house (you don't get that much time saving until 3+).
That's a good idea, let's look into that!
Quote from: trix on October 11, 2014, 03:28:34 AM
Ick, yeah that's a bit much just to get it there. Sorry =(.
How about you, NET? Still interested?
Too bad you guys are so far away, I've kind of become the local Free Computer Store and fix upgrade or work on people's computers for whatever random thing they want to offer, or nothing at all because I enjoy doing it and get leftover parts from it.
Oh I'm definitely still interested! Could you clarify what the dimensions and approximate weight would be for the tower, monitor, and keyboard for each one separately?
QuoteDIMENSIONS:
H: 16.3" W: 7.3" D: 17.3"
WEIGHT: 25.8 lbs. for tower only, 43.5lbs including all packaging materials
That's just for the tower itself, the monitor will add more.
It seems like you're saying 43.5 lbs for the tower, monitor, and keyboard, but then on the next line you say it's only for the tower. I'm having trouble imagining an added 17.7 lbs in packaging materials? But If that additional weight is indeed packaging, could you snap a picture or describe it so I get a better sense of this weighty "packaging"?
Maybe it would be cheaper to pack the tower in one box, and the monitor, keyboard, and cords in another....
It looks like the tower could be shipped for $45 if you can pack it into this box: http://staples.packagingfinder.net/shop/PSTA067815600-C5.aspx Assuming you could use less than 5 pounds of old clothes (or something like that) as the shock absorbing element and it came out to a total packed weight of 30 lbs or less.
I could swing $45.
I also don't need any peripherals, I have a monitor, keyboard, etc.
Quote from: N E T on October 11, 2014, 08:42:27 AM
Quote from: trix on October 11, 2014, 03:28:34 AM
Ick, yeah that's a bit much just to get it there. Sorry =(.
How about you, NET? Still interested?
Too bad you guys are so far away, I've kind of become the local Free Computer Store and fix upgrade or work on people's computers for whatever random thing they want to offer, or nothing at all because I enjoy doing it and get leftover parts from it.
Oh I'm definitely still interested! Could you clarify what the dimensions and approximate weight would be for the tower, monitor, and keyboard for each one separately?
QuoteDIMENSIONS:
H: 16.3" W: 7.3" D: 17.3"
WEIGHT: 25.8 lbs. for tower only, 43.5lbs including all packaging materials
That's just for the tower itself, the monitor will add more.
It seems like you're saying 43.5 lbs for the tower, monitor, and keyboard, but then on the next line you say it's only for the tower. I'm having trouble imagining an added 17.7 lbs in packaging materials? But If that additional weight is indeed packaging, could you snap a picture or describe it so I get a better sense of this weighty "packaging"?
Maybe it would be cheaper to pack the tower in one box, and the monitor, keyboard, and cords in another....
It looks like the tower could be shipped for $45 if you can pack it into this box: http://staples.packagingfinder.net/shop/PSTA067815600-C5.aspx Assuming you could use less than 5 pounds of old clothes (or something like that) as the shock absorbing element and it came out to a total packed weight of 30 lbs or less.
I can see your confusion, the part with dimensions and weights is from the technical PDF that Dell has online for the Optiplex series, and I'm not exactly sure what it includes as "packaging". As for "That's just the tower itself", I was either just overtired, or referring to physical dimensions rather than weight. I agree that the weight difference seems like it has to include more than just packaging, but I don't know. I have the original manuals and discs (including Acrobat 9 and CyberDVD and Office) for each and every computer (so a ton of copies) with all the CD-KEYS and such intact, that I will include. But all together the discs and manuals weigh maybe 2 lbs or something.
But yeah, any options you guys want to explore i'm perfectly fine with, especially if it includes less individual trips to the shipping location =P
I don't know the weight of the peripherals, but the monitor is very small and LCD, probably like 2kg tops, and the keyboard is generic Dell USB keyboard and weighs less than a kilo.
I can ship peripherals separate if that helps, or whatever else you guys figure out.
Maybe I'm overly tired too and just not getting a clear picture here. Could you restate the dimensions and weight in the format listed below so I can get an accurate estimate of shipping costs?
Tower
Length:
Height:
Width:
Weight:
Monitor
Length:
Height:
Width:
Weight:
Keyboard
Length:
There is no way to accurately calculate the shipping costs or order the right size shipping boxes without this information. Also, do you have shock absorbing materials or a way of packing the tower and monitor without damaging them? Or would buying packing foam, bubble wrap, and inflatable packing bags be part of the shipping costs?
The dimensions of the monitor and keyboard I have to guess at, as I can't find my tape measure anywhere. The dimensions of the tower are from the DELL pdf and I can only assume is accurate, but have no way to be certain.
TOWER:
Height: 16.3"
Width: 7.3"
Depth: 17.3"
Weight: 25.8lbs
Monitor:
Height: 15" (including base)
Width: 17"
Depth: 7"?
Weight: 5-10lbs?
Keyboard:
Height: 1"
Width: 18"
Depth: 6"
Weight: 1 lb?
I can wrap the stuff to avoid damage, that's no problem.
I estimated the dimensions of monitor and keyboard by comparing it to the tower, assuming the dimensions for the tower are correct.
Also I will need to know if you want Windows Vista or any flavor of Linux or both, so I can install all of the software and drivers and updates. These are pre-used for corporate purpose and must be reformatted via low-level format prior to shipping, as they contain private company info that must be removed.
Awesome!
I'd take Vista and Ubuntu. I know that doesn't leave a lot of space for stuff, but I have some external hard drives.
I'll look into shipping for the monitor/keyboard/manuals/etc, as I'm pretty sure it will fit into another one of those boxes I linked to. I can also help cover the cost of the shipping boxes.
I'll have to pay you in two installments over two weeks though, because I'm broke and stuff. Message me about payment details and we can get the ball rolling on that.
Quote from: N E T on October 12, 2014, 05:00:27 PM
Awesome!
I'd take Vista and Ubuntu. I know that doesn't leave a lot of space for stuff, but I have some external hard drives.
I'll look into shipping for the monitor/keyboard/manuals/etc, as I'm pretty sure it will fit into another one of those boxes I linked to. I can also help cover the cost of the shipping boxes.
I'll have to pay you in two installments over two weeks though, because I'm broke and stuff. Message me about payment details and we can get the ball rolling on that.
Ok, well, once you find out the shipping prices and such just PM me. As for payment, I don't do paypal so would Bitcoin be a problem? I know the general feeling on BTC here can be summed up by the term "Bitcon" that I keep seeing, but as simply a medium for transfer of funds it works pretty well. Or I could do some sort of COD or whatever through the shipping company, which personally I'd prefer, since that eliminates any risk for either of us losing money. Not that I don't trust you, or that you shouldn't trust me, but on the internet it pays to be careful.
Also, regular Ubuntu, or one of the flavors of it? I have a Linux Mint dvd already burnt for example, which is Ubuntu plus a few conveniences like mp3 decoder and official ATI drivers, etc. There's also Kubuntu (Ubuntu with KDE instead of Gnome/Unity) and Xubuntu (Ubuntu with XFCE4 = lightweight minimalistic) and many others.
Also, the PC Tower has the CD-KEY for Windows Vista Business on it, which is fine, but I do have a Windows Vista Ultimate disc available to use that does not require CDKEY or activation. Kind of a bit greyer on the legality front but I swear I'm not the internet police! And Ultimate is loads better than Business.
In addition, I will be installing Service Pack 1 and 2 and all updates for Vista, as without them Vista is a buggy piece of shit that wont even let you install Java and will crash every ten minutes.
I should mention as well that if you decide to just bitcoin me the funds and trust me to keep my word, (though again I'd prefer C.O.D. or something), I can of course include pics/video of the huge piles of computers here so you can see for yourself that I have way too many of these goddamn things and badly need to be rid of some.
Oh shit, forgot to mention, both versions of ATI graphics that come with these computers are old enough that the official ATI drivers for Linux no longer cover them, and thus the open-source radeon driver is all you get on Linux. It works quite good still (I play FPS on Linux all the time - Xonotic is awesome on High Settings and lag-free), but you will notice somewhat better 3D performance on Windows with the official Catalyst drivers, and slightly worse 2D performance because the radeon open source driver is very well written (IMHO).
Also, in the interest of giving me something interesting to do, do you mind if I custom-theme either (or both) operating system(s)?
Like, nifty Eris-themed startup images, auto-ddate, etc? You would of course be able to change or undo anything you don't like, it's your computer, I just hate working on a computer with default themes =P.
Also I want to waste a bunch of time making a custom cursor "busy" animation, from the regular hourglass to a spinning golden apple or something. I've never made a cursor before and I kind of want to. I wont remove the regular non-busy arrow though because cursors that are not an arrow annoy the crap out of me.
PS: Sorry for all the text. Boring weekend.
Quote from: trix on October 12, 2014, 05:47:17 PM
Also, in the interest of giving me something interesting to do, do you mind if I custom-theme either (or both) operating system(s)?
Like, nifty Eris-themed startup images, auto-ddate, etc? You would of course be able to change or undo anything you don't like, it's your computer, I just hate working on a computer with default themes =P.
Also I want to waste a bunch of time making a custom cursor "busy" animation, from the regular hourglass to a spinning golden apple or something. I've never made a cursor before and I kind of want to. I wont remove the regular non-busy arrow though because cursors that are not an arrow annoy the crap out of me.
PS: Sorry for all the text. Boring weekend.
I'd enjoy that! Also, COD works for me as I don't have any Bitcoin or a BC wallet.
Ok cool, just two questions.
First, are you okay with Vista Ultimate given what I said above about the legal grey area, or would prefer a fully legit Vista Business instead?
Second:
Quote from: trix on October 12, 2014, 05:28:02 PM
Also, regular Ubuntu, or one of the flavors of it?
I'll go with Vista Ultimate and regular-ass Ubuntu.
Ok I'll have both installed and updated by tomorrow, just let me know the shipping details and it's all yours!
JAJA I not know this ddate, it work on WHonix!
works on pretty much everything, it's a really simple program.
Check your messages, trix.
Is ddate no longer included at all, or can it still be enabled at build time with the configure option --enable-ddate?
Cause I know util-linux has been default to not build with ddate enabled since around 2012...is it now 100% gone?