In Discordia, as I've come to understand it, there's a general divide between normal and weird. In everyday life, everyone takes offense at being called normal. No one wants to be called normal, ever. I find the word normal a useful one for trying to understand society at large, for trying to understand cultural attitudes, and so on. But if I ask someone to help me understand what the normal thing is...they deny, deny, deny that there IS such a thing as normal.
Fine, everyone's a special snowflake, even the ones who hate self-proclaimed special snowflakes. But I need the concept of normal so I can find a way to blend in, and not stick out like a sore thumb. I don't want to be a freak by mistake, which can happen too easily since I'm almost a hermit and definitely Aspergers.
So, given this... What did they replace the word "normal" with? Because I sure as hell don't believe everyone is accepting everyone else as individuals to be understood one at a time.
...if none of this made sense, please ask me, and I shall respond and try to explain further.
People who deny normality are stuck in the vice-like grip of Special Snowflake Syndrome, and don't know what the word "normal" means.
This reminds me, I read a silly little article the other day but it had a couple of complete gems in it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/01/opinion/sunday/what-you-learn-in-your-40s.html?smid=fb-share&_r=1
Quote• More about you is universal than not universal. My unscientific assessment is that we are 95 percent cohort, 5 percent unique. Knowing this is a bit of a disappointment, and a bit of a relief.
Normal is arbitrary by consensus and varies by location and chronological era.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 25, 2014, 10:40:50 AM
Normal is arbitrary by consensus and varies by location and chronological era.
It's the cohort effect. It's also part of why it was once believed that people's IQ's peak around 20 and go into rapid decline; they were using data from IQ scores collected from many age groups at the same time. The apparent decline disappeared when they did longitudinal studies, testing the same cohort as they aged.
It always tickled me that, in physics, perpendicular is referred to as "normal"
Quote from: rong on December 25, 2014, 11:49:18 PM
It always tickled me that, in physics, perpendicular is referred to as "normal"
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NormalVector.html
(http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/NormalVector_700.gif)
Hey, that reminds me - they made a map
(http://freebeergames.github.io/Solobot/Docs/normal_mapping/circuits_normal.jpg)
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 25, 2014, 10:40:50 AM
Normal is arbitrary by consensus and varies by location and chronological era.
Yes. But I want to find out, from people in my local area, what practices are acceptable, if only to avoid getting my ass kicked for insulting the wrong football team or whatever, or better yet, to find out how to find people I would enjoy talking to.
But the word normal does not communicate this. And when I spend a good few sentences on defining what I mean, their eyes glaze over, and then I still do not receive the information I desire.
...also, I think I have posted this thread in the wrong forum?
Quote from: BrotherPrickle on December 27, 2014, 05:01:58 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 25, 2014, 10:40:50 AM
Normal is arbitrary by consensus and varies by location and chronological era.
Yes. But I want to find out, from people in my local area, what practices are acceptable, if only to avoid getting my ass kicked for insulting the wrong football team or whatever, or better yet, to find out how to find people I would enjoy talking to.
But the word normal does not communicate this. And when I spend a good few sentences on defining what I mean, their eyes glaze over, and then I still do not receive the information I desire.
...also, I think I have posted this thread in the wrong forum?
It seems more like you did not ask what you actually want to know, but asked a much more vague question that will not get you the answers you desire.
One of my children is autistic, as is her father, and one of the important things we have worked on all her life is getting her to identify (for herself) what it is she actually wants, so that she can work on the next step (expressing it to others). This can be very difficult for autistic people.
In your post, you have identified the problem as being people's interpretation of the word "normal". However, upon closer scrutiny, it seems like the problem is in gaining information about acceptable and pleasing social behavior.
Am I correct?
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 27, 2014, 05:35:40 AM
Quote from: BrotherPrickle on December 27, 2014, 05:01:58 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 25, 2014, 10:40:50 AM
Normal is arbitrary by consensus and varies by location and chronological era.
Yes. But I want to find out, from people in my local area, what practices are acceptable, if only to avoid getting my ass kicked for insulting the wrong football team or whatever, or better yet, to find out how to find people I would enjoy talking to.
But the word normal does not communicate this. And when I spend a good few sentences on defining what I mean, their eyes glaze over, and then I still do not receive the information I desire.
...also, I think I have posted this thread in the wrong forum?
It seems more like you did not ask what you actually want to know, but asked a much more vague question that will not get you the answers you desire.
One of my children is autistic, as is her father, and one of the important things we have worked on all her life is getting her to identify (for herself) what it is she actually wants, so that she can work on the next step (expressing it to others). This can be very difficult for autistic people.
In your post, you have identified the problem as being people's interpretation of the word "normal". However, upon closer scrutiny, it seems like the problem is in gaining information about acceptable and pleasing social behavior.
Am I correct?
Precisely it. Man, for someone with pretensions to being a writer, I suck at getting across what I mean.
I mean, my therapist calls it socialization, along with other social workers. But you can't use that word. And unpacking such concepts for people is as fun and fruitful as masturbation.
Quote from: BrotherPrickle on December 27, 2014, 07:59:00 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on December 27, 2014, 05:35:40 AM
Quote from: BrotherPrickle on December 27, 2014, 05:01:58 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 25, 2014, 10:40:50 AM
Normal is arbitrary by consensus and varies by location and chronological era.
Yes. But I want to find out, from people in my local area, what practices are acceptable, if only to avoid getting my ass kicked for insulting the wrong football team or whatever, or better yet, to find out how to find people I would enjoy talking to.
But the word normal does not communicate this. And when I spend a good few sentences on defining what I mean, their eyes glaze over, and then I still do not receive the information I desire.
...also, I think I have posted this thread in the wrong forum?
It seems more like you did not ask what you actually want to know, but asked a much more vague question that will not get you the answers you desire.
One of my children is autistic, as is her father, and one of the important things we have worked on all her life is getting her to identify (for herself) what it is she actually wants, so that she can work on the next step (expressing it to others). This can be very difficult for autistic people.
In your post, you have identified the problem as being people's interpretation of the word "normal". However, upon closer scrutiny, it seems like the problem is in gaining information about acceptable and pleasing social behavior.
Am I correct?
Precisely it. Man, for someone with pretensions to being a writer, I suck at getting across what I mean.
I mean, my therapist calls it socialization, along with other social workers. But you can't use that word. And unpacking such concepts for people is as fun and fruitful as masturbation.
Don't sweat it too much, it's a process but it's a workable process. My best advice is to try to narrow it down to really specific questions -- try to identify a very specific sticking point you're having trouble with, and then ask about that as specifically as you can if you feel like you're having conflicts in a certain area. But also realize that there are going to be things other people care about that you don't care about much, and that's completely fine. I also have a couple of friends/classmates who are autistic, and that means they sometimes have social interactions that are awkward. I personally think that they have found a really great middle ground for dealing with it, which is that they recognize that it happens and try to be conscious of it, but also accept that it's part of who they are, without using their autism as an excuse to be rude, but simply recognizing that sometimes they will come across that way. As everyone does from time to time.
I'm super tired and should go to bed, I think I'm rambling.
Not to be glib, but isn't finding out the consensus social behaviors also known as "small talk"?
I mean, meeting new people and asking questions about them is fairly basic socializing, and questions like "what do you do for fun," or "what's the hometown favorite" can really help drill down to what's 'normal'.
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on December 27, 2014, 05:06:59 PM
Not to be glib, but isn't finding out the consensus social behaviors also known as "small talk"?
I mean, meeting new people and asking questions about them is fairly basic socializing, and questions like "what do you do for fun," or "what's the hometown favorite" can really help drill down to what's 'normal'.
Small talk is really difficult for most autistic people. It's a good skill to learn, though.
as far as ive seen, autistic conversation is a single topic till exhaustion with them doing most the talking with some incapacity to understand wordplay or metaphors... sorry im in a rush not to be blunt
Quote from: The Johnny on December 27, 2014, 07:20:01 PM
as far as ive seen, autistic conversation is a single topic till exhaustion with them doing most the talking with some incapacity to understand wordplay or metaphors... sorry im in a rush not to be blunt
I think it really depends on the degree of autism and also how much skill they've acquired in knowing when to pause, etc.
They have very low ability to read facial expression or body language, and in general severe issues with everything theory-of-mind related, which is why sometimes they may tend to lock into the idea that their perception reflects the one objective reality (we saw this a great deal with Enki) and believe that other people are simply wrong. My understanding is that while they may often
appear to lack empathy, what they actually lack is the perceptive ability to pick up on cues that could trigger neuronal mirroring; they can "feel for" other people, but usually only by communicating the other person's emotional state verbally, and only if they are able to understand that other people can have different reactions than those they themselves would have in the same circumstances.
Only tangentially related, but I recently learned that one of Britain's top autism researchers is Sacha Baron Cohen's first cousin. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/simon-baroncohen-ali-gs-smarter-cousin-and-britains-leading-expert-on-autism-1688427.html
Great post Nigel.
Quote from: BrotherPrickle on December 27, 2014, 05:01:58 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 25, 2014, 10:40:50 AM
Normal is arbitrary by consensus and varies by location and chronological era.
Yes. But I want to find out, from people in my local area, what practices are acceptable, if only to avoid getting my ass kicked for insulting the wrong football team or whatever, or better yet, to find out how to find people I would enjoy talking to.
But the word normal does not communicate this. And when I spend a good few sentences on defining what I mean, their eyes glaze over, and then I still do not receive the information I desire.
...also, I think I have posted this thread in the wrong forum?
The word you want is "etiquette".
Quote from: Telarus on December 27, 2014, 09:07:11 PM
Great post Nigel.
Quote from: BrotherPrickle on December 27, 2014, 05:01:58 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on December 25, 2014, 10:40:50 AM
Normal is arbitrary by consensus and varies by location and chronological era.
Yes. But I want to find out, from people in my local area, what practices are acceptable, if only to avoid getting my ass kicked for insulting the wrong football team or whatever, or better yet, to find out how to find people I would enjoy talking to.
But the word normal does not communicate this. And when I spend a good few sentences on defining what I mean, their eyes glaze over, and then I still do not receive the information I desire.
...also, I think I have posted this thread in the wrong forum?
The word you want is "etiquette".
That's a good point. Perhaps an etiquette book would make a good place to start. Maybe something like this? http://www.amazon.com/Everyday-Etiquette-Navigate-Uncommon-Situations/dp/0312604270/
Etiquette! Dang, I knew it was something obvious! :D Thanks for the link and the keyword. I'll check it out soon as I can!
Normal is appearing to follow social moores, laws and regulations and an overall bland character...
Religious but not too religious, funny and outgoing, extraverted, but manic is a no no and stay away from morbid black humor or sarcasm... for guys, being manly, for women being pretty and charismatic, etc.
Mores, customs, folkways, etiquette, habitus, etc
Normal is falling within two to three standard deviations of the average. EVERYTHING fits under the curve, so the question is not whether an individual differs from the median, but by how much.
They're probably snails (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=37071.0).
Quote from: Cain on December 28, 2014, 05:34:40 PM
They're probably snails (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=37071.0).
:lulz:
Doesn't normal depend on whether or not you're on meth?