We really need laws that prohibit the exploitation of children as performers. Just as there's no good reason to have underage children working in our factories, there is no good reason to have them working on our stages.
This rubs me the wrong way and I don't know why. I certainly can't justify it.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on May 24, 2015, 11:26:25 PM
This rubs me the wrong way and I don't know why. I certainly can't justify it.
Want to give it a go?
Given that outcomes for child performers have a strong history of turning out negative... I can't help but think that paid performance by children should be illegal, including all forms of pageants.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 24, 2015, 11:46:16 PM
Given that outcomes for child performers have a strong history of turning out negative... I can't help but think that paid performance by children should be illegal, including all forms of pageants.
Agreed.
Well, for one child performers don't all go batshit crazy, it's just that we see more of the ones who do than the ones who quietly move on with their lives. Drama sells and all that.
I think there are some stories that require children to be told properly, and I don't like the idea that those stories would have to be abandoned or parceled out to adults who maybe kinda a little looked like kids. I think having adults play teenagers in high school movies/shows is a really bad idea, because it fucks with kids' perception of their own development and where they should be.
I despise the notion of child pageants, but I don't think having babies in commercials is inherently detrimental to the baby. Similarly, having children sell children's toys doesn't have to be a gross badwrong thing.
It's super important any time you have children working to have strong protections in place, and I know that the entertainment industry has at least paid lip service to some of that. They need to be able to get a real education, not a handwave "home schooling" on set. They need friends who aren't flunkies and yes men and they need to have long breaks away from the insanity of the entertainment industry. They need parents and agents who will not only protect them from all the lifestyle bullshit, but also from shitty parts, shitty directors, and shitty publicity. And that's hard and it shouldn't be.
Not sure if you've seen this before, but it's written by the woman who played Matilda in the crappy movie that came out a while back: http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-reasons-child-stars-go-crazy-an-insiders-perspective/
The tl;dr is her parents did everything as right as they could, and she turned out basically okay, but she understands why that shit fucks kids up on the regular. I took away from it that things don't have to be a complete disaster, and more accommodations from the industry and media could lead to much better outcomes without too much pain.
All that said, I haven't been under a rock and I've seen how badly kids can get fucked up by the system, and it's really hard to justify that even for art. For every kid who ends up like Natalie Portman, how many Lindsay Lohans happen? How many of them would be an acceptable loss in the name of telling children's stories?
In a world where it's popular to objectify people, it sickens me that some don't draw the line at the innocent.
I can easily see both sides of the argument. Animals performing is likewise dicey.
BAN ALL THINGS!
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 24, 2015, 10:06:47 PM
We really need laws that prohibit the exploitation of children as performers. Just as there's no good reason to have underage children working in our factories, there is no good reason to have them working on our stages.
So are school plays illegal now? Christmas pageants?
The pageants are ew. Completely banning child actors would render a good chunk of media unwatchable... Hm, maybe not a bad thing.
I know if my kid wanted to act, Id do my damnedest to squash that dream like a cockroach.
Quote from: xXRon_Paul_42016Xxx(weed) on May 25, 2015, 03:48:00 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 24, 2015, 10:06:47 PM
We really need laws that prohibit the exploitation of children as performers. Just as there's no good reason to have underage children working in our factories, there is no good reason to have them working on our stages.
So are school plays illegal now? Christmas pageants?
Where's the exploitation in those?
Quote from: Dubya on May 25, 2015, 04:44:35 AM
The pageants are ew. Completely banning child actors would render a good chunk of media unwatchable... Hm, maybe not a bad thing.
I know if my kid wanted to act, Id do my damnedest to squash that dream like a cockroach.
Let them act... in school plays, or in the backyard with their friends.
I just think it's hypocritical that we won't let children pick strawberries or make clothes for a paycheck, but for some reason there are zero holds barred when it comes to Hollywood.
As far as children's television programming... maybe TV doesn't need to be for children.
I wasnt really thinking about children's TV. But no kids onscreen means a more limited scope for what aspects of life could even be portrayed. Cut out most sitcoms, abcfamily, the disney channel, the hallmark channel etc. It would be hilarious. Ad execs jumping from skyscrapers
Quote from: Dubya on May 25, 2015, 05:27:46 AM
I wasnt really thinking about children's TV. But no kids onscreen means a more limited scope for what aspects of life could even be portrayed. Cut out most sitcoms, abcfamily, the disney channel, the hallmark channel etc. It would be hilarious. Ad execs jumping from skyscrapers
:lulz:
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 24, 2015, 10:06:47 PM
We really need laws that prohibit the exploitation of children as performers. Just as there's no good reason to have underage children working in our factories, there is no good reason to have them working on our stages.
No more Home Alone movies?
SHIT
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 25, 2015, 04:52:32 AM
Quote from: Dubya on May 25, 2015, 04:44:35 AM
The pageants are ew. Completely banning child actors would render a good chunk of media unwatchable... Hm, maybe not a bad thing.
I know if my kid wanted to act, Id do my damnedest to squash that dream like a cockroach.
Let them act... in school plays, or in the backyard with their friends.
I just think it's hypocritical that we won't let children pick strawberries or make clothes for a paycheck, but for some reason there are zero holds barred when it comes to Hollywood.
As far as children's television programming... maybe TV doesn't need to be for children.
But kids can pick strawberries for a paycheck. Some of the exceptions to child labor laws are specifically for the farm industry. And Hollywood isn't zero holds barred, it's just such a goddamned nightmare for adults that even the lowered bar of insanity that kids are allowed to experience is still pretty fucked.
Honestly, I think the music industry is far worse for kids than Hollywood. There's no goddamned reason to have pre-pubescent anythings going on tour to promote sales for an album. Also, holy crap sexualization of minors in the music industry.
OK, point taken: children over the age of 12 can work in agriculture with their parents' permission, outside of school hours. The same is true of working in family businesses such as restaurants.
http://nfwm.org/education-center/farm-worker-issues/children-in-the-fields/
That is still vastly more restriction than is placed on children serving as entertainment.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on May 25, 2015, 07:54:16 AM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 24, 2015, 10:06:47 PM
We really need laws that prohibit the exploitation of children as performers. Just as there's no good reason to have underage children working in our factories, there is no good reason to have them working on our stages.
No more Home Alone movies?
SHIT
IT'S A TERRIBLE THOUGHT!
Do you think this one is ready for prime time? Thinking about posting it in some parenting groups and seeing if I can get support.
But how can i pay for the overhead of this baby if i dont make it dance? Worst investment ever.
What about child-shaming videos? Those aren't technically entertainment. They're shining examples of parents getting this discipline thing right...at least according to the disgusting shit that comes across my FB feed on the daily.
I don't think it should be outright banned, but there should be guide lines. Like no practicing for more than 40 hours a week or something.
Quote from: NoLeDeMiel on May 26, 2015, 01:17:18 AM
What about child-shaming videos? Those aren't technically entertainment. They're shining examples of parents getting this discipline thing right...at least according to the disgusting shit that comes across my FB feed on the daily.
That, in my opinion, is flat-out bullying... which when it comes from the parents is child abuse.
Quote from: Meunster on May 26, 2015, 01:23:32 AM
I don't think it should be outright banned, but there should be guide lines. Like no practicing for more than 40 hours a week or something.
No overtime for tots?
40 hours is an adult work week...
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on May 26, 2015, 01:37:35 AM
Quote from: Meunster on May 26, 2015, 01:23:32 AM
I don't think it should be outright banned, but there should be guide lines. Like no practicing for more than 40 hours a week or something.
No overtime for tots?
40 hours is an adult work week...
Hollywood actually has some fairly significant restrictions on when and how often child actors can work. The labor side of it probably has the least potential for harm, though. It's the fame and money that really packs the punch, I think.
...And yes to the mommy groups with this. And how!
Also, related:
http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Sparkler-Amber-Tamblyn/dp/0062348167
This woman wrote a book of poetry about female actresses who died young. The author was a child actress herself. This one's about Brittany Murphy:
QuoteABOUT THE BODY
In the shower,
her body dies like a spiders.
The blooming flower
seeds a cemetery.
A pill lodges in the inner pocket of her flesh coat.
Her breasts were the gifts of ghosts.
Dark tarps of success.
Her mouth dribbles over
onto the bathroom floor.
Pollack blood.
The body is removed off the red carpet,
put in a black bag,
taken to the Mother's screams
for identification.
The Country says good things
about the body.
They print the best photos;
the least bones, the most peach.
Candles are lit in the glint
of every glam. Every magazine stand
does the Southern Bell curtsy in her post-box office bomb honor.
The autopsy finds an easy answer.
They say good things about the body.
How bold her eyes were, bigger than Hepburn's.
The way she could turn into her camera close-up
like life depended on her.
She did one about Lindsey Lohan, too. A blank page. She talked about it in an interview. Asked, correctly IMO, if Lindsey Lohan was really doing anything that out of character for a woman in her late teens and early 20's...and how much different that experience would be, for any of us that had it, had those same messy choices been amplified to the degree that hers were by a tabloid society hungry to consume its idols.
Ooooh, that's good! Dark.