I feel like there are some aspects of life that are impossible to have a valid opinion on until you've experienced them. One of these is the military. I don't think I could make a decision about supporting it or not until I've lived it. For several years now, I've considered going into the military.
My score on the ASVAB (Projected to be 89, I think) and interest in computers would give me an opportunity to see several major parts of the military while also keeping some distance from live combat. Not that I specifically wanted to avoid combat. Hell, I was thinking about going into the Army Special Forces. But I eventually decided I would probably wanna focus on the AFCYBER program (Air Force Cyber Security whatever program) because it would also expand my career.
The problem is, regardless of branch and job, even if you get what you want in paper/contract, it is quite apparent that this administration does not respect the military as much as it should, considering its cuts in benefits and funding, and absurd disrespect for Veterans. I don't wanna go into the military just so that they can stick me in a hole in a desert so I can get shot at by zealots/terrorists. Obviously, if I join the military at this point, that is exactly what I'm agreeing to if I don't go the extended, hands-on career route. You join the military to be a soldier first, contracted job second.
Anyways, I can't decide if it's worth it to sell my soul to the Military Industrial Complex and risk psychological damage just to give myself a perspective that many think is obsolete anyways, considering we're trying to get rid of the whole "war" thing.
Any ideas or thoughts on consequences on my possible decisions?
You should definitely join the army as quickly as possible.
Quote from: Demolition Squid on June 14, 2015, 08:10:26 AM
You should definitely join the army as quickly as possible.
Well, I was looking for more detailed explanations or persuasive arguments than that. Care to elaborate? I'm pretty sure I know where this is going, but I'll ask as if I'm assuming you mean no ill-will anyways.
If its just curiosity about the "validity" of the military it seems extremely specific and a horrible idea.
You can easily answer that by simply reading whatever about it.
Re:op - The worst shake is the one you hardly notice.
You are not capable of being obedient enough to feel at home in the military.
There are 2 possible outcomes:
1. You keep your head down and learn to hate yourself.
2. You keep getting in trouble with your thinking, and having opinions. Eventually leading to you getting locked up.
Quote from: The Johnny on June 14, 2015, 09:42:35 AM
If its just curiosity about the "validity" of the military it seems extremely specific and a horrible idea.
You can easily answer that by simply reading whatever about it.
I get what you mean. I at least want to look into why our war strategies appear to have changed a lot in the last 20 years or so. I always figured it had to do with information that wouldn't be available to the public, or understood by the public without a detailed context. So, I figured, why not just join and see what the fuck's going on? If there are reading materials that have the information I'm interested in (And I can't say I've really looked for a lot of reading materials), then I will look for it before making a decision.
But then the probability of what Reginald Ret said had occurred to me:
Quote from: Reginald Ret on June 14, 2015, 10:08:01 AM
You are not capable of being obedient enough to feel at home in the military.
There are 2 possible outcomes:
1. You keep your head down and learn to hate yourself.
2. You keep getting in trouble with your thinking, and having opinions. Eventually leading to you getting locked up.
I'm actually much more obedient than I might seem. At times, I kind of find it pathetic. However, I am pretty open about my ideas and opinions. That is something I would have to work on. Regardless, I think I would have a bit of trouble getting comfortable in such a system, considering I can't stand control mechanisms. Especially obvious ones that directly deal with an authority figure.
The military is, fundamentally, a sociological control mechanism based on authority and discipline. If you're going in with the intent of learning inside info you will spend a lot of time being disappointed.
But maybe it would be good for you anyway.
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on June 14, 2015, 01:59:56 PM
The military is, fundamentally, a sociological control mechanism based on authority and discipline. If you're going in with the intent of learning inside info you will spend a lot of time being disappointed.
But maybe it would be good for you anyway.
Yeah, I considered both of these points, as well. Your mentality determines what you find out in the military. In their minds, the only people looking for inside info are a.) Whistleblowers and b.) Direct enemies of the State. This mentality is also easy to spot. The only people they'd probably give inside info to are people who aren't looking for it because they're less likely to be a danger to security.
I also always wanted military training of some sort. And it's a system that gives you discipline - Something just about everyone needs a bit more of, IMO.
I spent 5 years active duty Army starting during the George W. administration....
One, you're mistaken if you think this administration is worse for the troops than the three prior Republican administrations.
Two, in any branch except for the Marines, if your contact specifies a job then you get that job, barring you doing something stupid like washing out of schooling.
Three, unless you end up with one or two select jobs as a member of one or two select units, you're not going to find out some sort of inside information that the public doesn't know. Most classified information is pretty dull and isn't related to what you seem to be looking for.
Three, the jobs your taking about are not going to leave you out in the sandbox playing the role of a pop up target. Eggheads get left inside the wire, half the time in an air conditioned building nestled gently in the SCIF.
Four, the wars are ending man. Unless a Republican takes over and preemptively starts more shit, chances of you hitting a combat zone are really low (except South Korea).
Five, the purpose of the military isn't what you imagine. Yes, you are trained to accept and react to orders of those above you, yet you're also trained in the difference between a lawful and unlawful order (and to not follow unlawful ones), and they look to keep creativity/originality in troops, plus fostering leadership skills/mindset. This country has learned a lot about what not to do from dealing with the Russians for so many years. You're better off with troops who know how to take over once half their squad has been blown away then having mindless robots.
Six, I've seen nothing indicating you'd have a good time in the service. Certain types of people have it rough without a few specific tricks, and I'm not about to go into further detail because I doubt you'd believe what I've got to say I'm the subject, and because I personally would find it more amusing to hear of you failing.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 14, 2015, 07:21:47 PM
I also always wanted military training of some sort. And it's a system that gives you discipline - Something just about everyone needs a bit more of, IMO.
Joining the military so it will give you discipline. That's cute :lulz:
Naw dude. From what little I know about you, any branch of the military would not be the thing for you.
May I recommend spending a year doing physical labor, and then going to college?
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 15, 2015, 03:57:11 AM
May I recommend spending a year doing physical labor, and then going to college?
Much better idea.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 14, 2015, 07:26:28 AM
The problem is, regardless of branch and job, even if you get what you want in paper/contract, it is quite apparent that this administration does not respect the military as much as it should, considering its cuts in benefits and funding, and absurd disrespect for Veterans.
You're an idiot. That's congress fucking the military. The president doesn't decide on funding.
Jesus H Christ.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:03:54 AM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 14, 2015, 07:26:28 AM
The problem is, regardless of branch and job, even if you get what you want in paper/contract, it is quite apparent that this administration does not respect the military as much as it should, considering its cuts in benefits and funding, and absurd disrespect for Veterans.
You're an idiot. That's congress fucking the military. The president doesn't decide on funding.
Jesus H Christ.
A republican congress using the military as a fucking hostage. And by military I mean the actual troops, not any other military spending.
Quote from: Don Coyote on June 15, 2015, 05:17:51 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:03:54 AM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 14, 2015, 07:26:28 AM
The problem is, regardless of branch and job, even if you get what you want in paper/contract, it is quite apparent that this administration does not respect the military as much as it should, considering its cuts in benefits and funding, and absurd disrespect for Veterans.
You're an idiot. That's congress fucking the military. The president doesn't decide on funding.
Jesus H Christ.
A republican congress using the military as a fucking hostage. And by military I mean the actual troops, not any other military spending.
Yep. I don't expect Poo to manage the distinction, though.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:32:21 AM
Quote from: Don Coyote on June 15, 2015, 05:17:51 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:03:54 AM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 14, 2015, 07:26:28 AM
The problem is, regardless of branch and job, even if you get what you want in paper/contract, it is quite apparent that this administration does not respect the military as much as it should, considering its cuts in benefits and funding, and absurd disrespect for Veterans.
You're an idiot. That's congress fucking the military. The president doesn't decide on funding.
Jesus H Christ.
A republican congress using the military as a fucking hostage. And by military I mean the actual troops, not any other military spending.
Yep. I don't expect Poo to manage the distinction, though.
But he has a projected ASVAB of 89. Nevermind that ASVAB score has nothing to do with nothing and it's line scores that matter, barely, or that my ASVAB score is a 99. I'm probably one of the Army's smartest supply geeks :horrormirth:
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 14, 2015, 07:21:47 PM
I also always wanted military training of some sort. And it's a system that gives you discipline - Something just about everyone needs a bit more of, IMO.
Learn a martial art. All the discipline and focus without the possibility of PTSD
Quote from: Rev Thwack on June 15, 2015, 02:17:41 AM
I spent 5 years active duty Army starting during the George W. administration....
One, you're mistaken if you think this administration is worse for the troops than the three prior Republican administrations.
Two, in any branch except for the Marines, if your contact specifies a job then you get that job, barring you doing something stupid like washing out of schooling.
Three, unless you end up with one or two select jobs as a member of one or two select units, you're not going to find out some sort of inside information that the public doesn't know. Most classified information is pretty dull and isn't related to what you seem to be looking for.
Three, the jobs your taking about are not going to leave you out in the sandbox playing the role of a pop up target. Eggheads get left inside the wire, half the time in an air conditioned building nestled gently in the SCIF.
Four, the wars are ending man. Unless a Republican takes over and preemptively starts more shit, chances of you hitting a combat zone are really low (except South Korea).
Five, the purpose of the military isn't what you imagine. Yes, you are trained to accept and react to orders of those above you, yet you're also trained in the difference between a lawful and unlawful order (and to not follow unlawful ones), and they look to keep creativity/originality in troops, plus fostering leadership skills/mindset. This country has learned a lot about what not to do from dealing with the Russians for so many years. You're better off with troops who know how to take over once half their squad has been blown away then having mindless robots.
Six, I've seen nothing indicating you'd have a good time in the service. Certain types of people have it rough without a few specific tricks, and I'm not about to go into further detail because I doubt you'd believe what I've got to say I'm the subject, and because I personally would find it more amusing to hear of you failing.
Points taken. And it's alright, other people have probably already stated what you haven't yet, in regards to the service's effects on me.But I wasn't aware that there were specific tricks.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 15, 2015, 03:57:11 AM
May I recommend spending a year doing physical labor, and then going to college?
This was already a possibility. I've got the year of physical labor under my belt already. I've got a certification in Microsoft Excel (All three levels? I'll have to check again.) and ITIL Foundations, which came from a technology grant I acquired right after high school. So I don't know if I'll go to college considering I have access to a lot of entry level jobs with growth potential, just by having the Microsoft Excel cert and a technology background.
Also, I think physical labor makes you dumber in some aspects (Maybe it was just the kinds of labor jobs I was doing.), but smarter in others. By that I mean, I'm probably more coordinated and athletic than I've ever been, but I can't do shit with computers, compared to what I used to.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:03:54 AM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 14, 2015, 07:26:28 AM
The problem is, regardless of branch and job, even if you get what you want in paper/contract, it is quite apparent that this administration does not respect the military as much as it should, considering its cuts in benefits and funding, and absurd disrespect for Veterans.
You're an idiot. That's congress fucking the military. The president doesn't decide on funding.
Jesus H Christ.
I'm quite new to this subject. Stating that I'm an idiot while providing a correction is redundant.
That's an interesting idea though (I mean your point about Congress), I'll look more into it.
Quote from: Don Coyote on June 15, 2015, 05:17:51 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:03:54 AM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 14, 2015, 07:26:28 AM
The problem is, regardless of branch and job, even if you get what you want in paper/contract, it is quite apparent that this administration does not respect the military as much as it should, considering its cuts in benefits and funding, and absurd disrespect for Veterans.
You're an idiot. That's congress fucking the military. The president doesn't decide on funding.
Jesus H Christ.
A republican congress using the military as a fucking hostage. And by military I mean the actual troops, not any other military spending.
Oh, then almost every right-winger I know is completely misinformed on the - Ohhhhhhhh, I see now :lulz:
Quote from: Don Coyote on June 15, 2015, 05:44:21 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:32:21 AM
Quote from: Don Coyote on June 15, 2015, 05:17:51 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:03:54 AM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 14, 2015, 07:26:28 AM
The problem is, regardless of branch and job, even if you get what you want in paper/contract, it is quite apparent that this administration does not respect the military as much as it should, considering its cuts in benefits and funding, and absurd disrespect for Veterans.
You're an idiot. That's congress fucking the military. The president doesn't decide on funding.
Jesus H Christ.
A republican congress using the military as a fucking hostage. And by military I mean the actual troops, not any other military spending.
Yep. I don't expect Poo to manage the distinction, though.
But he has a projected ASVAB of 89. Nevermind that ASVAB score has nothing to do with nothing and it's line scores that matter, barely, or that my ASVAB score is a 99. I'm probably one of the Army's smartest supply geeks :horrormirth:
I was simply told that anything above 80 would get you any kind of entry job you wanted. Is that not the job you chose? Or did you not choose, allowing them to give you whatever?
Quote from: Chelagoras The Boulder on June 15, 2015, 09:11:32 AM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 14, 2015, 07:21:47 PM
I also always wanted military training of some sort. And it's a system that gives you discipline - Something just about everyone needs a bit more of, IMO.
Learn a martial art. All the discipline and focus without the possibility of PTSD
Actually, this is already in the works. I start at the Bujinkan dojo as soon as I get my desk job. I've practiced a bit before as well.
Wow.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
This was already a possibility. I've got the year of physical labor under my belt already. I've got a certification in Microsoft Excel (All three levels? I'll have to check again.) and ITIL Foundations, which came from a technology grant I acquired right after high school. So I don't know if I'll go to college considering I have access to a lot of entry level jobs with growth potential, just by having the Microsoft Excel cert and a technology background.
Also, I think physical labor makes you dumber in some aspects (Maybe it was just the kinds of labor jobs I was doing.), but smarter in others. By that I mean, I'm probably more coordinated and athletic than I've ever been, but I can't do shit with computers, compared to what I used to.
Please don't try to join. Physical labor doesn't make you dumber. You not practicing your technical skills made you dumber.
Quote
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:03:54 AM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 14, 2015, 07:26:28 AM
The problem is, regardless of branch and job, even if you get what you want in paper/contract, it is quite apparent that this administration does not respect the military as much as it should, considering its cuts in benefits and funding, and absurd disrespect for Veterans.
You're an idiot. That's congress fucking the military. The president doesn't decide on funding.
Jesus H Christ.
I'm quite new to this subject. Stating that I'm an idiot while providing a correction is redundant.
That's an interesting idea though (I mean your point about Congress), I'll look more into it.
Quote from: Don Coyote on June 15, 2015, 05:17:51 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:03:54 AM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 14, 2015, 07:26:28 AM
The problem is, regardless of branch and job, even if you get what you want in paper/contract, it is quite apparent that this administration does not respect the military as much as it should, considering its cuts in benefits and funding, and absurd disrespect for Veterans.
You're an idiot. That's congress fucking the military. The president doesn't decide on funding.
Jesus H Christ.
A republican congress using the military as a fucking hostage. And by military I mean the actual troops, not any other military spending.
Oh, then almost every right-winger I know is completely misinformed on the - Ohhhhhhhh, I see now :lulz:
Most right-wingers are pre-rich dumbasses that think the GOP has their best interests at heart and anything the goes wrong has to be the fault of the liberal Muslim black man in the white house.
Quote
Quote from: Don Coyote on June 15, 2015, 05:17:51 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:32:21 AM
Quote from: Don Coyote on June 15, 2015, 05:17:51 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:03:54 AM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 14, 2015, 07:26:28 AM
The problem is, regardless of branch and job, even if you get what you want in paper/contract, it is quite apparent that this administration does not respect the military as much as it should, considering its cuts in benefits and funding, and absurd disrespect for Veterans.
You're an idiot. That's congress fucking the military. The president doesn't decide on funding.
Jesus H Christ.
A republican congress using the military as a fucking hostage. And by military I mean the actual troops, not any other military spending.
Yep. I don't expect Poo to manage the distinction, though.
But he has a projected ASVAB of 89. Nevermind that ASVAB score has nothing to do with nothing and it's line scores that matter, barely, or that my ASVAB score is a 99. I'm probably one of the Army's smartest supply geeks :horrormirth:
I was simply told that anything above 80 would get you any kind of entry job you wanted. Is that not the job you chose? Or did you not choose, allowing them to give you whatever?
All of that is easily google-able. But short answer, your ASVAB score, which is a single two digit number means shit to the military. Each service uses different portions of the test to generate their own two or three digit scores to asses your trainability in certain fields, which they use to determine what jobs they will bother sending you to school for. And you can only pick from the jobs they are offering at the time., and some jobs have moral and physical qualifications.
Quote
Actually, this is already in the works. I start at the Bujinkan dojo as soon as I get my desk job. I've practiced a bit before as well.
:lulz:
Eh, if it's for fitness and discipline only, I suppose Bunjikan could be OK. Overpriced, but that's gyms and training all over IMO.
However, if you want a martial art with some practical element, especially for self-defence purposes, I would definitely agree with Coyote.
To Don (Doing it this way because the quoting was fucky because you accidentally deleted a quote definition line or something. No biggy tho <3 ) :
You're right. It was me not practicing the technical skills, not the labor.
That sounds like right-wingers, alright.
Oh, yeah. The recruiter went into that a little bit. But it was awhile ago. And also, he left out some shit as well. Fuckers make it seem like the military is the like the best and clearest employer out there, telling you everything you should know about their system in regards to making sure your life isn't fucked over by a little bit of misinformation.
I would've expected a bit more truth out of the recruiters in my area, though. I live in Patriot town, home of people who would love to kick in doors for country. They fill any quotas they are given within a week. They would generally have no reason to flat out lie and omit important details, unless of course they get some sort of commission?
To Both Cain, and Don:
I know the Bujinkan isn't a form of self-defense. Nor is it 100% reputable or 100% historical. But, for the most part, it strays from fraudulence, which is something to be proud of considering that most modern martial arts are 100% fraudulent. The Bujinkan doesn't lie about their lineage. Most of the instructors and people who run it are quite aware of the possibility that the supposed lineage has some non-truth in it. Also, I am aware that the martial art is outdated. I just find it to be an entertaining and unique martial art.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
I'm quite new to this subject. Stating that I'm an idiot while providing a correction is redundant.
No, it isn't. I occasionally correct people without saying they're idiots. Nigel and Cain correct me
all the time without saying I'm an idiot.
You basically repeated the Fox News/Rush Limbaugh narrative as if it were true. Guess what that makes you?
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
I'm quite new to this subject. Stating that I'm an idiot while providing a correction is redundant.
No, it isn't. I occasionally correct people without saying they're idiots. Nigel and Cain correct me all the time without saying I'm an idiot.
You basically repeated the Fox News/Rush Limbaugh narrative as if it were true. Guess what that makes you?
Misinformed.
I can only use the information I have. I am completely open to new information. Last I checked, that makes someone not an idiot. I'm not necessarily claiming I'm not an idiot, because I very well could be. But using limited knowledge in a discussion meant to increase one's knowledge does not make one an idiot.
Most of the political shit I hear is tainted by Republican rhetoric because of the people I'm surrounded by. Hearing something other than Republican rhetoric takes some getting used to.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
I'm quite new to this subject. Stating that I'm an idiot while providing a correction is redundant.
No, it isn't. I occasionally correct people without saying they're idiots. Nigel and Cain correct me all the time without saying I'm an idiot.
You basically repeated the Fox News/Rush Limbaugh narrative as if it were true. Guess what that makes you?
Misinformed.
That's one way to say it, yes.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:13:38 PMI can only use the information I have.
No. You can go check the narrative against the facts. In this case, it's an easy trip down memory lane, to 7th grade social studies.
Some education in Civics and US Constitutional law would be a really great start. It would put you well ahead of most Americans, really.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
I'm quite new to this subject. Stating that I'm an idiot while providing a correction is redundant.
No, it isn't. I occasionally correct people without saying they're idiots. Nigel and Cain correct me all the time without saying I'm an idiot.
You basically repeated the Fox News/Rush Limbaugh narrative as if it were true. Guess what that makes you?
Misinformed.
That's one way to say it, yes.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:13:38 PMI can only use the information I have.
No. You can go check the narrative against the facts. In this case, it's an easy trip down memory lane, to 7th grade social studies.
My point was, I didn't have the information that would be derived from that comparison because I didn't make that comparison. I guess my mistake was choosing not to look up this information beforehand. However, figuring out new information was the entire point of this thread. This thread is serving its purpose. I am learning new information, including the information you've so
kindly handed me.
Thank you.
And that's not sarcasm. I really thank you for the information, or at least the suggestion that will push me to look up the information.
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on June 15, 2015, 06:30:46 PM
Some education in Civics and US Constitutional law would be a really great start. It would put you well ahead of most Americans, really.
Good point. I also probably should've paid more attention in AP Government.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
I'm quite new to this subject. Stating that I'm an idiot while providing a correction is redundant.
No, it isn't. I occasionally correct people without saying they're idiots. Nigel and Cain correct me all the time without saying I'm an idiot.
You basically repeated the Fox News/Rush Limbaugh narrative as if it were true. Guess what that makes you?
Misinformed.
I can only use the information I have. I am completely open to new information. Last I checked, that makes someone not an idiot. I'm not necessarily claiming I'm not an idiot, because I very well could be. But using limited knowledge in a discussion meant to increase one's knowledge does not make one an idiot.
Most of the political shit I hear is tainted by Republican rhetoric because of the people I'm surrounded by. Hearing something other than Republican rhetoric takes some getting used to.
You are smart enough to seek out more information.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
Also, I think physical labor makes you dumber in some aspects (Maybe it was just the kinds of labor jobs I was doing.), but smarter in others. By that I mean, I'm probably more coordinated and athletic than I've ever been, but I can't do shit with computers, compared to what I used to.
You are incorrect. You are drawing a misleading correlation between letting one skill stagnate and exercising another.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 15, 2015, 06:40:50 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
I'm quite new to this subject. Stating that I'm an idiot while providing a correction is redundant.
No, it isn't. I occasionally correct people without saying they're idiots. Nigel and Cain correct me all the time without saying I'm an idiot.
You basically repeated the Fox News/Rush Limbaugh narrative as if it were true. Guess what that makes you?
Misinformed.
I can only use the information I have. I am completely open to new information. Last I checked, that makes someone not an idiot. I'm not necessarily claiming I'm not an idiot, because I very well could be. But using limited knowledge in a discussion meant to increase one's knowledge does not make one an idiot.
Most of the political shit I hear is tainted by Republican rhetoric because of the people I'm surrounded by. Hearing something other than Republican rhetoric takes some getting used to.
You are smart enough to seek out more information.
I agree. I was just clarifying that just because I hadn't, doesn't mean I couldn't or wouldn't. "Idiotic" generally points to the latter.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 15, 2015, 06:45:48 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
Also, I think physical labor makes you dumber in some aspects (Maybe it was just the kinds of labor jobs I was doing.), but smarter in others. By that I mean, I'm probably more coordinated and athletic than I've ever been, but I can't do shit with computers, compared to what I used to.
You are incorrect. You are drawing a misleading correlation between letting one skill stagnate and exercising another.
Yes, Don brought this up earlier. You are both right.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
I'm quite new to this subject. Stating that I'm an idiot while providing a correction is redundant.
No, it isn't. I occasionally correct people without saying they're idiots. Nigel and Cain correct me all the time without saying I'm an idiot.
You basically repeated the Fox News/Rush Limbaugh narrative as if it were true. Guess what that makes you?
Misinformed.
That's one way to say it, yes.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:13:38 PMI can only use the information I have.
No. You can go check the narrative against the facts. In this case, it's an easy trip down memory lane, to 7th grade social studies.
My point was, I didn't have the information that would be derived from that comparison because I didn't make that comparison. I guess my mistake was choosing not to look up this information beforehand. However, figuring out new information was the entire point of this thread. This thread is serving its purpose. I am learning new information, including the information you've so
Yeah no. You obviously have the internet, which means that if you have an inquisitive mind you have the information.
If you don't have an inquisitive mind, well I guess just good fucking luck kiddo.
Quote from: Don Coyote on June 15, 2015, 05:08:57 PM
Wow.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
This was already a possibility. I've got the year of physical labor under my belt already. I've got a certification in Microsoft Excel (All three levels? I'll have to check again.) and ITIL Foundations, which came from a technology grant I acquired right after high school. So I don't know if I'll go to college considering I have access to a lot of entry level jobs with growth potential, just by having the Microsoft Excel cert and a technology background.
Also, I think physical labor makes you dumber in some aspects (Maybe it was just the kinds of labor jobs I was doing.), but smarter in others. By that I mean, I'm probably more coordinated and athletic than I've ever been, but I can't do shit with computers, compared to what I used to.
Please don't try to join. Physical labor doesn't make you dumber. You not practicing your technical skills made you dumber.
Annnnd this
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
Actually, this is already in the works. I start at the Bujinkan dojo as soon as I get my desk job. I've practiced a bit before as well.
Lolllllllll has to be a troll. Well-played, son.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 15, 2015, 06:49:31 PM
Quote from: Don Coyote on June 15, 2015, 05:08:57 PM
Wow.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
This was already a possibility. I've got the year of physical labor under my belt already. I've got a certification in Microsoft Excel (All three levels? I'll have to check again.) and ITIL Foundations, which came from a technology grant I acquired right after high school. So I don't know if I'll go to college considering I have access to a lot of entry level jobs with growth potential, just by having the Microsoft Excel cert and a technology background.
Also, I think physical labor makes you dumber in some aspects (Maybe it was just the kinds of labor jobs I was doing.), but smarter in others. By that I mean, I'm probably more coordinated and athletic than I've ever been, but I can't do shit with computers, compared to what I used to.
Please don't try to join. Physical labor doesn't make you dumber. You not practicing your technical skills made you dumber.
Annnnd this
When he posted that I was all, "oh sweet baby Jesus. He will get eaten alive by everyone with that mindset." Life ain't no point-buy RPG where you have to choose between brains or brawn. Nevermind the total dumb with that mindset and thinking to join the military, as if soldiering isn't physical labor.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 15, 2015, 06:48:09 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
I'm quite new to this subject. Stating that I'm an idiot while providing a correction is redundant.
No, it isn't. I occasionally correct people without saying they're idiots. Nigel and Cain correct me all the time without saying I'm an idiot.
You basically repeated the Fox News/Rush Limbaugh narrative as if it were true. Guess what that makes you?
Misinformed.
That's one way to say it, yes.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:13:38 PMI can only use the information I have.
No. You can go check the narrative against the facts. In this case, it's an easy trip down memory lane, to 7th grade social studies.
My point was, I didn't have the information that would be derived from that comparison because I didn't make that comparison. I guess my mistake was choosing not to look up this information beforehand. However, figuring out new information was the entire point of this thread. This thread is serving its purpose. I am learning new information, including the information you've so
Yeah no. You obviously have the internet, which means that if you have an inquisitive mind you have the information.
If you don't have an inquisitive mind, well I guess just good fucking luck kiddo.
Some information is not interesting to me because I don't see its connection to the things I do find to be important. Obviously this information was a bit more important than I thought it was, or at least its connection to important information was more important than I thought it was. I also have a lot going on right now in regards to endless doubleshifts at work, etc., so researching all of this is not necessarily a priority right now. I accept that I'm not super knowledgeable on the subject, and that I probably won't be for a little while. I don't think that makes me stupid, though.
I mean, if my career was based on that information, and I wasn't trying to learn it, then that would make me stupid. I don't know, maybe trying to talk about it on a forum without research is stupid.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 15, 2015, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
Actually, this is already in the works. I start at the Bujinkan dojo as soon as I get my desk job. I've practiced a bit before as well.
Lolllllllll has to be a troll. Well-played, son.
?
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 15, 2015, 06:48:09 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:13:38 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 15, 2015, 05:58:47 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 04:14:55 PM
I'm quite new to this subject. Stating that I'm an idiot while providing a correction is redundant.
No, it isn't. I occasionally correct people without saying they're idiots. Nigel and Cain correct me all the time without saying I'm an idiot.
You basically repeated the Fox News/Rush Limbaugh narrative as if it were true. Guess what that makes you?
Misinformed.
That's one way to say it, yes.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:13:38 PMI can only use the information I have.
No. You can go check the narrative against the facts. In this case, it's an easy trip down memory lane, to 7th grade social studies.
My point was, I didn't have the information that would be derived from that comparison because I didn't make that comparison. I guess my mistake was choosing not to look up this information beforehand. However, figuring out new information was the entire point of this thread. This thread is serving its purpose. I am learning new information, including the information you've so
Yeah no. You obviously have the internet, which means that if you have an inquisitive mind you have the information.
If you don't have an inquisitive mind, well I guess just good fucking luck kiddo.
He was also going with the say-so of the recruiters about his projected ASVAB, and had this whole "the military will have you do what it wants not what you want and you're going to soak up bullets in a desert" when so much of that on the interwebs.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:57:56 PM
Some information is not interesting to me because I don't see its connection to the things I do find to be important. Obviously this information was a bit more important than I thought it was, or at least its connection to important information was more important than I thought it was. I also have a lot going on right now in regards to endless doubleshifts at work, etc., so researching all of this is not necessarily a priority right now. I accept that I'm not super knowledgeable on the subject, and that I probably won't be for a little while. I don't think that makes me stupid, though.
I mean, if my career was based on that information, and I wasn't trying to learn it, then that would make me stupid. I don't know, maybe trying to talk about it on a forum without research is stupid.
Woooowwwwlook at all this rambling internal processing that totally doesn't need to be voiced because nobody cares.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 15, 2015, 07:03:06 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:57:56 PM
Some information is not interesting to me because I don't see its connection to the things I do find to be important. Obviously this information was a bit more important than I thought it was, or at least its connection to important information was more important than I thought it was. I also have a lot going on right now in regards to endless doubleshifts at work, etc., so researching all of this is not necessarily a priority right now. I accept that I'm not super knowledgeable on the subject, and that I probably won't be for a little while. I don't think that makes me stupid, though.
I mean, if my career was based on that information, and I wasn't trying to learn it, then that would make me stupid. I don't know, maybe trying to talk about it on a forum without research is stupid.
Woooowwwwlook at all this rambling internal processing that totally doesn't need to be voiced because nobody cares.
It was clarifying that my inquisitiveness is temporarily set-back, or barred from exercise. Not completely non-existent.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:36:01 PM
Good point. I also probably should've paid more attention in AP Government.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
AP Government, yet you don't know what the duties of the various branches are? Come on.
Okay, I'm done with this douchebag.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 16, 2015, 12:59:46 AM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:36:01 PM
Good point. I also probably should've paid more attention in AP Government.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
AP Government, yet you don't know what the duties of the various branches are? Come on.
Okay, I'm done with this douchebag.
It's a classic SGitR complex.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 07:06:32 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 15, 2015, 07:03:06 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:57:56 PM
Some information is not interesting to me because I don't see its connection to the things I do find to be important. Obviously this information was a bit more important than I thought it was, or at least its connection to important information was more important than I thought it was. I also have a lot going on right now in regards to endless doubleshifts at work, etc., so researching all of this is not necessarily a priority right now. I accept that I'm not super knowledgeable on the subject, and that I probably won't be for a little while. I don't think that makes me stupid, though.
I mean, if my career was based on that information, and I wasn't trying to learn it, then that would make me stupid. I don't know, maybe trying to talk about it on a forum without research is stupid.
Woooowwwwlook at all this rambling internal processing that totally doesn't need to be voiced because nobody cares.
It was clarifying that my inquisitiveness is temporarily set-back, or barred from exercise. Not completely non-existent.
Have you ever considered shutting up when you don't know what you're talking about, or when it's irrelevant to everything and everyone other than yourself?
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on June 16, 2015, 01:53:58 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 16, 2015, 12:59:46 AM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 15, 2015, 06:36:01 PM
Good point. I also probably should've paid more attention in AP Government.
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
AP Government, yet you don't know what the duties of the various branches are? Come on.
Okay, I'm done with this douchebag.
It's a classic SGitR complex.
It's more that he consistently makes claims to education and/or experience he simply hasn't had.
There's a word for that.
"I troll u, LEL" in 3...2....1...
Quote from: The Johnny on June 16, 2015, 04:03:22 AM
"I troll u, LEL" in 3...2....1...
SOCIOLOLGCAL EXPERIMENT.
And we did
exactly what he expected.
We need to write a text book or something.
It seems to me that the ability to do one's own research is a skill in itself.
Although, yes, there is a whole lot of information on the internet that doesn't mean that what you find to read is going to be wholly or at all true. Particularly within the realms of socially hot topics such as military/race/sex/drugs etc. that have been being discussed here recently.
E.g. if I were to say 'OK well I don't know anything whatsoever about what being a woman in modern society is like. I'll do some research.'
I could either end up on a site like Reddit where there is a lot of MRA sentiment and I could read and believe that. Or I could end up on Tumblr with some radfems and I could believe what they say.
Now, the reality is probably that there is some sort of middle ground between these two opposite ideologies and that both sides may (or may not) have some worthwhile points hidden in there.
How/when do you decide what to believe?
Well, most people decide to believe whatever best supports their personal prejudices and presuppositions, happy to crawl into an echo chamber. I'd say you're better off being skeptical of everything and only believing things to the extent that you haven't yet found contradictory evidence, yet continuing to search for such and holding the belief that everything could be possible, just that not everything is likely.
Yeah but, like literally if you does a search about "military service" the first page is either stuff for veterans, or how to join, or history. If you does a search on "what does my ASVAB score mean?" you get several hits from the offical ASVAB site, a couple of Army related sites, and a few Yahoo asks, and a few hits on military.com. If someone doesn't even want to trust what is on the official site or any .mil site, they have no fucking business in the military, especially if don't trust a .mil site. If you think you are so fucking smart that you know for a fact that military is just going to fuck you over, guess what, the military is going to fuck you over harder than anyone else in the service, and you're going to have a bad attitude, and then no one is going to help your punk ass.
If shitstain had even done some searches and made a thread about thinking about joining with a lot of questions about the information he had found he would have gotten a way different reaction. But as it is, I don't want someone like him serving. I'd rather not risk having to deal with his sgtir crap that he would probably still have a fucking private. I hate privates like that.
Oh, I don't disagree at all. I've already mentioned that him signing up would be bad, I was just talking more in generic circumstances than about poo violating the NAVY acronym.
Quote from: Rev Thwack on June 16, 2015, 02:14:51 PM
Oh, I don't disagree at all. I've already mentioned that him signing up would be bad, I was just talking more in generic circumstances than about poo violating the NAVY acronym.
Well that was essentially directed at Xaz.
Quote from: Don Coyote on June 16, 2015, 01:57:49 PM
Yeah but, like literally if you does a search about "military service" the first page is either stuff for veterans, or how to join, or history. If you does a search on "what does my ASVAB score mean?" you get several hits from the offical ASVAB site, a couple of Army related sites, and a few Yahoo asks, and a few hits on military.com. If someone doesn't even want to trust what is on the official site or any .mil site, they have no fucking business in the military, especially if don't trust a .mil site. If you think you are so fucking smart that you know for a fact that military is just going to fuck you over, guess what, the military is going to fuck you over harder than anyone else in the service, and you're going to have a bad attitude, and then no one is going to help your punk ass.
If shitstain had even done some searches and made a thread about thinking about joining with a lot of questions about the information he had found he would have gotten a way different reaction. But as it is, I don't want someone like him serving. I'd rather not risk having to deal with his sgtir crap that he would probably still have a fucking private. I hate privates like that.
Those are good points. Going into the military with that kind of attitude doesn't seem like an ideal plan. Frankly from what I have read of you guys' comments there don't seem like many situations where joining the military would be a great idea.
Your second point is also good, I guess there's a difference between doing some research (and understanding it) vs. regurgitating randomly connected bits of information.
Quote from: Rev Thwack on June 16, 2015, 01:33:03 PM
Well, most people decide to believe whatever best supports their personal prejudices and presuppositions, happy to crawl into an echo chamber. I'd say you're better off being skeptical of everything and only believing things to the extent that you haven't yet found contradictory evidence, yet continuing to search for such and holding the belief that everything could be possible, just that not everything is likely.
That sounds like a good way of thinking.
edit: What does sgtir stand for?
Smartest Guy in the Room, ie the asshole that always knows more than anyone else on any topic, even or especially the actual experts.
The military is ok if you have the right collection traits. It's a decent job with decent entry level pay, despite what a bunch of fucking idiots scream about, that will generally love to send you places to get more training . But it's filled with people. And it's several large institutions. And it is a not a one size fits all occupation, but neither are all the others.
SGitR would be a compliment, at this point.
Obviously being open and vulnerable has put me on edge and made me defensive in unnecessary situations.
I'm gonna walk away, go outside some more, and come back in a few weeks or something after being refreshed. I can hardly even think anything other than whale sounds at the moment.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 16, 2015, 06:52:24 PM
SGitR would be a compliment, at this point.
Obviously being open and vulnerable has put me on edge and made me defensive in unnecessary situations.
I'm gonna walk away, go outside some more, and come back in a few weeks or something after being refreshed. I can hardly even think anything other than whale sounds at the moment.
I love it... Playing the victim after being called out for dumb shit. Here's a tip... Those who actually learned something about their behavior when caught don't go on at length about how much they've learned and how it's affected them and how they are so good now about acting in all they've learned and aren't they special.
In other words, shenanigans.
Quote from: Rev Thwack on June 16, 2015, 07:01:17 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 16, 2015, 06:52:24 PM
SGitR would be a compliment, at this point.
Obviously being open and vulnerable has put me on edge and made me defensive in unnecessary situations.
I'm gonna walk away, go outside some more, and come back in a few weeks or something after being refreshed. I can hardly even think anything other than whale sounds at the moment.
I love it... Playing the victim after being called out for dumb shit. Here's a tip... Those who actually learned something about their behavior when caught don't go on at length about how much they've learned and how it's affected them and how they are so good now about acting in all they've learned and aren't they special.
In other words, shenanigans.
Playing the victim? No, I'm humbling myself because I know I'm wrong. Have you every tried that before? It does wonders for your ego and teaches you a lot about yourself.
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 16, 2015, 07:04:23 PM
Quote from: Rev Thwack on June 16, 2015, 07:01:17 PM
Quote from: Fernando Poo on June 16, 2015, 06:52:24 PM
SGitR would be a compliment, at this point.
Obviously being open and vulnerable has put me on edge and made me defensive in unnecessary situations.
I'm gonna walk away, go outside some more, and come back in a few weeks or something after being refreshed. I can hardly even think anything other than whale sounds at the moment.
I love it... Playing the victim after being called out for dumb shit. Here's a tip... Those who actually learned something about their behavior when caught don't go on at length about how much they've learned and how it's affected them and how they are so good now about acting in all they've learned and aren't they special.
In other words, shenanigans.
Playing the victim? No, I'm humbling myself because I know I'm wrong. Have you every tried that before? It does wonders for your ego and teaches you a lot about yourself.
Ahhhahahah.... "I'm not fishing for sympathy, I'm being humble. You should be humble like me. See how humble I am? Isn't it great that I'm so humble?"
"Think you're really righteous? Think you're pure in heart?
Well, I know I'm a million times as humble as thou art"
/
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