Principia Discordia

Principia Discordia => Apple Talk => Topic started by: Meunster on July 27, 2015, 08:17:00 PM

Title: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Meunster on July 27, 2015, 08:17:00 PM
Being a young 18 year old my social consciousness  didn't catch on till goth was on it's way out. I'm in an interesting position where all I can see is the reaction to goth culture. The hottopics, the odd southpark episode, the weird children it spawned like emo, scene, and ravers. It's not like I can go find a live stream of 10 years ago. So I'm asking you old farts, what was goth like in it's prime?
actually what where any subcultures like? Everything must of been completely different.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: LMNO on July 27, 2015, 08:33:34 PM
Which wave are we talking here?  Siouxie Sioux/Bauhaus/Cure, or NIN/Manson/Lycia?

I sorta lived through both.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 27, 2015, 08:49:29 PM
He's got the scars to prove it.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: LMNO on July 27, 2015, 08:54:13 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on July 27, 2015, 08:49:29 PM
He's got the scars to prove it.

:lulz:
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Meunster on July 27, 2015, 08:59:19 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 27, 2015, 08:33:34 PM
Which wave are we talking here?  Siouxie Sioux/Bauhaus/Cure, or NIN/Manson/Lycia?

I sorta lived through both.

bauhaus and cure era
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Faust on July 27, 2015, 09:00:58 PM
Goth was an elaborate hoax that started sometime in the fourtiers as a defiant gesture to the establishment by the nihilistic beat generation.
It hit its peak in the mid fifties, with goth artists, musicians, actors and writers creating what went on to become the defining staples of goth culture.

While goth culture sat uneasily with many conservative elements no one could deny its importance and people like Fermi, Von Braun and Feynman were household names.

By the end of the fifties goth culture was saturated, and it was at this point that its critics seized the opportunity to strike, they slated the goth mainstream as having become derivative or lacking in meaning. New goth artists struggled to establish themselves in a society that now found them cliche.

The final nail in the coffin for goth culture came with the assassination of the beloved American president JFK in Dallas in 1963 by the struggling and admittedly mediocre goth interpretive dancer Lee Oswald. With that the last of the enthusiasm that had once filled a thriving subculture was snuffed out.

And that, as they say, is that.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 27, 2015, 09:04:10 PM
Also, they recited shitty poetry to the sound of bongos, which didn't help at all.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: hooplala on July 27, 2015, 09:45:16 PM
And they ruined snapping in lieu of clapping.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: The Johnny on July 27, 2015, 10:42:40 PM

I dont know about its origins, but ive been in contact with people of the scene for about 15 years, and the practical meaning i derive from it is 2 very polarized lifestyles:

1) "I dont give a fuck" nihilistic hedonism which has its respective paths and ends.

2) A commital to art or culture in different manners.

As one can easily expect, the prevalent is the 1st lifestyle.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: LMNO on July 28, 2015, 12:15:14 AM
Quote from: Faust on July 27, 2015, 09:00:58 PM
Goth was an elaborate hoax that started sometime in the fourtiers as a defiant gesture to the establishment by the nihilistic beat generation.
It hit its peak in the mid fifties, with goth artists, musicians, actors and writers creating what went on to become the defining staples of goth culture.

While goth culture sat uneasily with many conservative elements no one could deny its importance and people like Fermi, Von Braun and Feynman were household names.

By the end of the fifties goth culture was saturated, and it was at this point that its critics seized the opportunity to strike, they slated the goth mainstream as having become derivative or lacking in meaning. New goth artists struggled to establish themselves in a society that now found them cliche.

The final nail in the coffin for goth culture came with the assassination of the beloved American president JFK in Dallas in 1963 by the struggling and admittedly mediocre goth interpretive dancer Lee Oswald. With that the last of the enthusiasm that had once filled a thriving subculture was snuffed out.

And that, as they say, is that.

:mittens:
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 28, 2015, 02:31:48 AM
The Goths were okay when they stayed in Germany.  They wrecked everything when they moved into Gaul and Italy.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on July 29, 2015, 01:37:30 AM
No, goth is not a thing. Goth was never a thing. Stop making up words and asking what they mean.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: hooplala on July 29, 2015, 02:17:05 AM
Flabbergazzle.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: LMNO on July 29, 2015, 04:20:38 AM
I was going to answer with a lot of thought, then I noticed who asked.

Then I noticed what you asked.

The scene was great if you loved the scene. Then the scene changed. And you either went with it or you became a hater.

What the hell are you even asking?
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Meunster on July 29, 2015, 04:24:35 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 29, 2015, 04:20:38 AM
I was going to answer with a lot of thought, then I noticed who asked.

Then I noticed what you asked.

The scene was great if you loved the scene. Then the scene changed. And you either went with it or you became a hater.

What the hell are you even asking?

What was it like? at a regular goth meeting type thing? The small little details.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 29, 2015, 04:46:20 AM
Quote from: Meunster on July 29, 2015, 04:24:35 AM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on July 29, 2015, 04:20:38 AM
I was going to answer with a lot of thought, then I noticed who asked.

Then I noticed what you asked.

The scene was great if you loved the scene. Then the scene changed. And you either went with it or you became a hater.

What the hell are you even asking?

What was it like? at a regular goth meeting type thing? The small little details.

It's what you'd expect.  The majority stockholders spoke, and everybody else shut the fuck up and sat in the back.

Unless they could form a bloc making them more or less equal with a majority stockholder.  This wasn't common, because it was easier to kiss up to one of the majority stockholders.  And the CEO, as always, some twit with good teeth and no survival instincts whatsoever.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: hooplala on July 29, 2015, 04:52:12 AM
Everything was going well until Lee Harvey Oswald got some unappreciated criticism at a particularly harsh poetry reading in the autumn of 1963.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Doktor Howl on July 29, 2015, 05:25:51 AM
The important part:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVteChAiQuA#t=28
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on July 29, 2015, 10:41:38 AM
Quote from: Meunster on July 29, 2015, 04:24:35 AM

What was it like? at a regular goth meeting type thing? The small little details.


Fishnets, PVC, spooky white foundation, cleopatra eyeliner and massive backcombed hair. Oh and Daniel Ash's echo pedal when you're tripping balls.

Goth ruled. I miss it  :cry:

Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Chelagoras The Boulder on August 03, 2015, 07:36:46 AM
hmm, i only know  a few people who are modern goths, one person described her experiences as "deliberately having fun with macabre elements". then again this person happened to be as far removed from a nihilist mindset as a Twilight movie is from actual romance, so maybe this is a slightly different mutation?
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: EK WAFFLR on August 03, 2015, 12:23:14 PM
I'm just happy there's no pics from my goth period.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: EK WAFFLR on August 03, 2015, 12:39:01 PM
Seriously. I Wake up every morning overjoyed that all the pics from that period are gone.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: LMNO on August 03, 2015, 02:36:56 PM
It was pretty much this, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-o39BJ0Aww) from 8 until 2, five nights a week.


The other three nights were for gay clubs and early 80s music.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: PopeTom on August 04, 2015, 08:35:08 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 03, 2015, 02:36:56 PM
It was pretty much this, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-o39BJ0Aww) from 8 until 2, five nights a week.


The other three nights were for gay clubs and early 80s music.

Though a couple of nights a month it was this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGKcWsYahAg).

Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on August 08, 2015, 07:45:14 PM
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 03, 2015, 02:36:56 PM
It was pretty much this, (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-o39BJ0Aww) from 8 until 2, five nights a week.


The other three nights were for gay clubs and early 80s music.

The exact echo pedal I was talking about.

Quote from: PopeTom on August 04, 2015, 08:35:08 PM

Though a couple of nights a month it was this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGKcWsYahAg).


See this is the part I could never resolve. How could white zombie and marylin manson be "goth"? That's kinda like if they called basketball "golf"  :eek:
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: LMNO on August 08, 2015, 08:24:39 PM
The whole scene shattered into a million subgenres.

Did you know there was such a thing as a "graver"? Goths who roll on X and go to raves. And listen to Gabber.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on August 08, 2015, 08:29:54 PM
Yeah I get the whole subgenres thing. Happened to metal back in the 80's when it split up into speed and death and thrash and fuck knows all what. Thing is, that shit made at least a bit of sense. You listen to x-metal and there's a family resemblance. Like, yeah, that's metal but goth? What the fuck does the new goth have in common with the old stuff? Like put yourself back in the 80's and show someone marylin manson, britney spears and the london philharmonic orchestra and ask "which one is 21st century goth" I'll be fucked if I could call it.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: The Johnny on August 09, 2015, 01:37:02 AM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 08, 2015, 08:29:54 PM
Yeah I get the whole subgenres thing. Happened to metal back in the 80's when it split up into speed and death and thrash and fuck knows all what. Thing is, that shit made at least a bit of sense. You listen to x-metal and there's a family resemblance. Like, yeah, that's metal but goth? What the fuck does the new goth have in common with the old stuff? Like put yourself back in the 80's and show someone marylin manson, britney spears and the london philharmonic orchestra and ask "which one is 21st century goth" I'll be fucked if I could call it.

The perceived transgressivenes and dark themes?
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: P3nT4gR4m on August 09, 2015, 02:12:08 AM
Makes sense when you put it like that.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Meunster on August 09, 2015, 09:19:08 AM
Is this thread still a thing?
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 09, 2015, 07:00:12 PM
Quote from: Meunster on August 09, 2015, 09:19:08 AM
Is this thread still a thing?

I'll trade you a hog's head for it.

(http://www.eatmedaily.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/hogshead.jpg)
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 09, 2015, 07:00:34 PM
That's a mighty fine hog's head, if I do say so myself.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Meunster on August 09, 2015, 07:16:55 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 09, 2015, 07:00:34 PM
That's a mighty fine hog's head, if I do say so myself.
Fine you can have it. I don't need it anyways.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 09, 2015, 07:28:58 PM
Quote from: Meunster on August 09, 2015, 07:16:55 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 09, 2015, 07:00:34 PM
That's a mighty fine hog's head, if I do say so myself.
Fine you can have it. I don't need it anyways.

DEAL.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Meunster on August 10, 2015, 08:29:32 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 09, 2015, 07:28:58 PM
Quote from: Meunster on August 09, 2015, 07:16:55 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 09, 2015, 07:00:34 PM
That's a mighty fine hog's head, if I do say so myself.
Fine you can have it. I don't need it anyways.

DEAL.

But I keep visitation rights every other weekend
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: Doktor Howl on August 10, 2015, 05:03:54 PM
Quote from: Meunster on August 10, 2015, 08:29:32 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 09, 2015, 07:28:58 PM
Quote from: Meunster on August 09, 2015, 07:16:55 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 09, 2015, 07:00:34 PM
That's a mighty fine hog's head, if I do say so myself.
Fine you can have it. I don't need it anyways.

DEAL.

But I keep visitation rights every other weekend

No, this is a trade, not a divorce settlement.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: D351 on August 22, 2015, 01:56:51 PM
There still are old-school goths in major cities. The LA industrial (and other darker genres) scene has quite a few people who are at least in their fifties, rocking old school black lacy dresses and suits. And often you can still hear Bauhaus... At least last time I was in LA, 2006.
Title: Re: Was goth a thing?
Post by: hooplala on August 24, 2015, 06:59:39 PM
 :dok: