NOTHING. NOTHING MAKES US DIFFERENT.
At least, not in the way the question is most often posed. In many psychology books, operating on a philosophy that is straight outta 1896, you will see again and again statements like "This makes humans unique among the animals of the world". This statement is almost always unequivocally false.
There is no one thing, no great difference, that makes humans different from other animals. Nothing that is biologically derived, anyway; you could argue that no other animal wears pants, and you would probably be correct, but given Nature's history of proving us wrong, eventually we'd probably discover some small Amazonian beetle that weaves pants for its young out of caterpillar silk. Other animals have culture, other animals have language, other animals use tools, other animals have enormous frontal lobes. There is simply no one thing that is so special about humans that we can hold it up like a trophy, some sort of divine symbol that we stand apart from all the other species. In all ways, our differences are emergent and in measures of degree, using different versions of the same structures present in other animals in ways that make us unique-- just like all the other animals.
I would like to see the "What makes humans unique and different from all other animals?" question put to bed forever. It is an irrelevant question, it asks nothing useful and there is no useful or enlightening answer. Seeking one fundamental difference, something which we share with no other creature, is a philosophical and scientific dead-end; and at this point, philosophy has nowhere to go if it fails to embrace science. "What makes us different from all the other animals?" is a question as deep and as elucidating as "What makes a horse different from a badger?"
If we can't be satisfied with that, we probably aren't ready to move forward in asking the more significant question, not of what sets us apart, but of how we fit in.
I was hoping that would be the answer you'd have :lulz:
I mean, I guess some philosophy major might try to sell something like "religion" but I'm pretty sure animals also believe things that they have no concrete evidence for, they're just less complicated things.
What makes us different from all the other animals is the fact that we ask shit like "What makes us different from all the other animals?"
Can't help thinking we're ahead of the game in that respect.
Giraffes still have the longest necks, tho. Maybe long term that'll turn out to be the more important thing.
Separation of church and state?
I'm going to go with the "humans wear pants" Like you said. That's a good one.
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on August 14, 2015, 07:12:26 PM
I was hoping that would be the answer you'd have :lulz:
I mean, I guess some philosophy major might try to sell something like "religion" but I'm pretty sure animals also believe things that they have no concrete evidence for, they're just less complicated things.
Right, and they actually may not be less complicated things, as we still know very little about the cognition of, for example, dolphins, except that their brains are enormous and have relatively much greater cortical area than ours do.
What makes me different from animals is that I can fuck up in ways that would doom any other species to extinction.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 14, 2015, 08:41:46 PM
What makes me different from animals is that I can fuck up in ways that would WILL doom any MANY other species to extinction.
Not an FTFY, just expressing a perspective jolt I had when I read that.
I think that this is the big difference. Most species are only inimical to a small and very specific set of other species, and rarely an existential threat to those species. Even the most vicious microbes are generally only a threat to a closed set of certain types of creatures. Humans can kill pretty much anything on earth, and our abilities of reason and to directly manipulate the environment have reached a point where we could kill practically everything.
I know that this isn't a true difference biologically, but if there's anything beyond biology to our being it's terrifically deadly and able to leverage our biology and mental capacity to change things no other species can, whether or not we should.
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on August 15, 2015, 02:36:18 AM
Humans can kill pretty much anything on earth, and our abilities of reason and to directly manipulate the environment have reached a point where we could kill practically everything.
and sometimes we even do it on purpose :argh!:
I was kind of, albeit apparently futilely, hoping that people here would get the point and not run off with "things that make humans super special".
Cainad got it, at least. Cainad, let's you and me go start our own species.
Oh, shit. I'm sterile. Never mind. We're all going to die.
Ook ook, motherfuckers. Ook fucking ook.
I don't need to fit into no ecosystem.
I DO WHAT I WANT.
Genetically, the prize for greatest variance goes to the octopus, I think.
Quote from: axod on August 15, 2015, 09:21:29 PM
Genetically, the prize for greatest variance goes to the octopus, I think.
Which species of octopus and why?
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 15, 2015, 11:02:56 PM
Quote from: axod on August 15, 2015, 09:21:29 PM
Genetically, the prize for greatest variance goes to the octopus, I think.
Which species of octopus and why?
I think it was the whole genus, extending maybe even to the family, and it was because of their DNA, maybe all the different proteins they can encode being greater by something like an order of magnitude w.r.t. all other "terrestrial" families; with the implication of their being practically alien.
Humans can stop thinking
Quote from: axod on August 16, 2015, 03:34:29 AM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 15, 2015, 11:02:56 PM
Quote from: axod on August 15, 2015, 09:21:29 PM
Genetically, the prize for greatest variance goes to the octopus, I think.
Which species of octopus and why?
I think it was the whole genus, extending maybe even to the family, and it was because of their DNA, maybe all the different proteins they can encode being greater by something like an order of magnitude w.r.t. all other "terrestrial" families; with the implication of their being practically alien.
Here's the actual study all those bullshit headlines are based on
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v524/n7564/full/nature14668.html
QuoteColeoid cephalopods (octopus, squid and cuttlefish) are active, resourceful predators with a rich behavioural repertoire1. They have the largest nervous systems among the invertebrates2 and present other striking morphological innovations including camera-like eyes, prehensile arms, a highly derived early embryogenesis and a remarkably sophisticated adaptive colouration system1, 3. To investigate the molecular bases of cephalopod brain and body innovations, we sequenced the genome and multiple transcriptomes of the California two-spot octopus, Octopus bimaculoides. We found no evidence for hypothesized whole-genome duplications in the octopus lineage4, 5, 6. The core developmental and neuronal gene repertoire of the octopus is broadly similar to that found across invertebrate bilaterians, except for massive expansions in two gene families previously thought to be uniquely enlarged in vertebrates: the protocadherins, which regulate neuronal development, and the C2H2 superfamily of zinc-finger transcription factors. Extensive messenger RNA editing generates transcript and protein diversity in genes involved in neural excitability, as previously described7, as well as in genes participating in a broad range of other cellular functions. We identified hundreds of cephalopod-specific genes, many of which showed elevated expression levels in such specialized structures as the skin, the suckers and the nervous system. Finally, we found evidence for large-scale genomic rearrangements that are closely associated with transposable element expansions. Our analysis suggests that substantial expansion of a handful of gene families, along with extensive remodelling of genome linkage and repetitive content, played a critical role in the evolution of cephalopod morphological innovations, including their large and complex nervous systems.
That being said, the following has a more centrally enduring quality.
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 14, 2015, 07:29:40 PM
What makes us different from all the other animals is the fact that we ask shit like "What makes us different from all the other animals?"
Can't help thinking we're ahead of the game in that respect.
Giraffes still have the longest necks, tho. Maybe long term that'll turn out to be the more important thing.
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 16, 2015, 03:51:43 AM
Quote from: axod on August 16, 2015, 03:34:29 AM
Quote from: Q. G. Pennyworth on August 15, 2015, 11:02:56 PM
Quote from: axod on August 15, 2015, 09:21:29 PM
Genetically, the prize for greatest variance goes to the octopus, I think.
Which species of octopus and why?
I think it was the whole genus, extending maybe even to the family, and it was because of their DNA, maybe all the different proteins they can encode being greater by something like an order of magnitude w.r.t. all other "terrestrial" families; with the implication of their being practically alien.
Here's the actual study all those bullshit headlines are based on
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v524/n7564/full/nature14668.html
QuoteColeoid cephalopods (octopus, squid and cuttlefish) are active, resourceful predators with a rich behavioural repertoire1. They have the largest nervous systems among the invertebrates2 and present other striking morphological innovations including camera-like eyes, prehensile arms, a highly derived early embryogenesis and a remarkably sophisticated adaptive colouration system1, 3. To investigate the molecular bases of cephalopod brain and body innovations, we sequenced the genome and multiple transcriptomes of the California two-spot octopus, Octopus bimaculoides. We found no evidence for hypothesized whole-genome duplications in the octopus lineage4, 5, 6. The core developmental and neuronal gene repertoire of the octopus is broadly similar to that found across invertebrate bilaterians, except for massive expansions in two gene families previously thought to be uniquely enlarged in vertebrates: the protocadherins, which regulate neuronal development, and the C2H2 superfamily of zinc-finger transcription factors. Extensive messenger RNA editing generates transcript and protein diversity in genes involved in neural excitability, as previously described7, as well as in genes participating in a broad range of other cellular functions. We identified hundreds of cephalopod-specific genes, many of which showed elevated expression levels in such specialized structures as the skin, the suckers and the nervous system. Finally, we found evidence for large-scale genomic rearrangements that are closely associated with transposable element expansions. Our analysis suggests that substantial expansion of a handful of gene families, along with extensive remodelling of genome linkage and repetitive content, played a critical role in the evolution of cephalopod morphological innovations, including their large and complex nervous systems.
Scientist: "Science has proven the way tabloid journalist headline writers think is practically alien to the normal human."
Tabloid journalist: "SCIENCE SAYS PAPER WRITERS ARE ALIENS. HAVE MORE DNA IN COMMON WITH A CRAB THAN A HUMAN BEING. READ ALL ABOUT IT"/
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 15, 2015, 04:26:24 PM
I was kind of, albeit apparently futilely, hoping that people here would get the point and not run off with "things that make humans super special".
Cainad got it, at least. Cainad, let's you and me go start our own species.
Oh, shit. I'm sterile. Never mind. We're all going to die.
Well, I'm sure if I try REALLY hard...
Quote from: Cainad (dec.) on August 16, 2015, 01:02:57 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 15, 2015, 04:26:24 PM
I was kind of, albeit apparently futilely, hoping that people here would get the point and not run off with "things that make humans super special".
Cainad got it, at least. Cainad, let's you and me go start our own species.
Oh, shit. I'm sterile. Never mind. We're all going to die.
Well, I'm sure if I try REALLY hard...
:lulz:
This thread caused me to return to the arguments against human uniqueness outlined by the illustrious Professor Trol Bearington.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=32883.msg1192322#msg1192322
So nothing scientific makes us different, that's fair enough. Something I can get behind. But there's an implication in there that we're not different which is patently not the case.
The properties that emerged from the tiny tweak our particular strand of ribonucleic ticker tape received made us very different. According to biology we are 97(ish) percent identical to mice. So why didn't mice develop the atom bomb?
You're a snowflake. Get over it :lulz:
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 18, 2015, 11:41:57 AM
So nothing scientific makes us different, that's fair enough. Something I can get behind. But there's an implication in there that we're not different which is patently not the case.
The properties that emerged from the tiny tweak our particular strand of ribonucleic ticker tape received made us very different. According to biology we are 97(ish) percent identical to mice. So why didn't mice develop the atom bomb?
You're a snowflake. Get over it :lulz:
Actually, the implication is that we're no more different from all the other animals than any given species is different from all the other animals.
There is no big defining difference that sets us apart and makes us special. Our difference is the sum total of many traits that, in combination, characterize our species. The fact that we are the only highly technological species at this time sets us apart from the animals as much as the bat being the only flying mammal at this time sets bats apart from the animals. My point is that the man/animal dichotomy is false, and it's an unproductive way of thinking about our species and its relationship with all the other animals, and our shared environment.
Quote from: Pæs on August 18, 2015, 01:09:41 AM
This thread caused me to return to the arguments against human uniqueness outlined by the illustrious Professor Trol Bearington.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=32883.msg1192322#msg1192322
I forgot all about that thread. :lulz: It was hilarious.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 18, 2015, 07:53:43 PM
Quote from: P3nT4gR4m on August 18, 2015, 11:41:57 AM
So nothing scientific makes us different, that's fair enough. Something I can get behind. But there's an implication in there that we're not different which is patently not the case.
The properties that emerged from the tiny tweak our particular strand of ribonucleic ticker tape received made us very different. According to biology we are 97(ish) percent identical to mice. So why didn't mice develop the atom bomb?
You're a snowflake. Get over it :lulz:
Actually, the implication is that we're no more different from all the other animals than any given species is different from all the other animals.
There is no big defining difference that sets us apart and makes us special. Our difference is the sum total of many traits that, in combination, characterize our species. The fact that we are the only highly technological species at this time sets us apart from the animals as much as the bat being the only flying mammal at this time sets bats apart from the animals. My point is that the man/animal dichotomy is false, and it's an unproductive way of thinking about our species and its relationship with all the other animals, and our shared environment.
Couldn't agree more. The pathological denial thing is a particular lulzfest where all sorts of convoluted bullshit gets trotted out to excuse the fact that most of the time we're a bunch of apes behaving exactly like any other species of primate.
At other times I defend the fact that our intellectual capacity (untapped tho it usually remains) separates us from the rest of our biologically mutated brethren. There is great potential there. Unfortunately we're still animals, for the most part quite content to obey the law of the jungle, blissfully unaware that that's exactly the kind of thing a jellyfish would do.
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 18, 2015, 08:16:00 PM
Quote from: Pæs on August 18, 2015, 01:09:41 AM
This thread caused me to return to the arguments against human uniqueness outlined by the illustrious Professor Trol Bearington.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=32883.msg1192322#msg1192322
I forgot all about that thread. :lulz: It was hilarious.
How do you remember all these dumbass threads?
Quote from: LMNO, PhD (life continues) on August 18, 2015, 09:31:46 PM
Quote from: Mesozoic Mister Nigel on August 18, 2015, 08:16:00 PM
Quote from: Pæs on August 18, 2015, 01:09:41 AM
This thread caused me to return to the arguments against human uniqueness outlined by the illustrious Professor Trol Bearington.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=32883.msg1192322#msg1192322
I forgot all about that thread. :lulz: It was hilarious.
How do you remember all these dumbass threads?
It's impossible.