My philosohpy teacher said something wise. I suppose that's to be expected from a philosophy teacher, wisedom. Of course, it is the exception rather then the rule.
He says that an intitution, in order to be a religion must have the idea of something trancandant, something beyond. You know, I think he's right. He uses the idea of Darwinism as a foil to religion. But Darwinism is simply a belief that we are running the rat (from whom humans only separated 6 million years ago) race of evolution, and when the sun explodes, we're done. There is nothing in this belief that points to a purpose, nothing that says, "Human I bid you Joy."
We need that, we humans. We need joy. I'm sure all the depressed goths would like to tell you that they hate the world, because the world is an empty shell, where joy is but an illusion and pain and death is all that we come to in the end. But, we still need joy. They feel it. They all feel it. They crave it like a mad dog after meat. But, joy isn't that simple little feeling you get after you've achieved something, it's not the feeling you have on christmas morning after you open you're presents. Joy is what lingers, it's that peaceful inner calm that comes from love, love of everything. Acceptance of the Everything. They can't have joy though, because they think they can find it in a christmas present, or in a moment. It is not from without that it comes, it comes only from within. But you've got to listen for it, and let it be.
We want joy, because when we have it, we're done. It's not contentment, you get that on christmas too. It's more than contentment, because, again, it will last, it will go on forever.
My teacher's aide for this philosophy class has a funny idea. For reason he seems to think that the trancandent beyond is somehow separate or above this world of base forms and dull energies. I think he's wrong. The beyond is here. Thats the irony of it. It is here. You are just as much a part of it as the spider that is now going up the wall in my room. Everything is a part of it. More than everything is part of it. Isn't it pretty?
I have another teacher that's very wise. This one teaches Classical Mythology. He seems to think that there is a mindset that the mythmakers had. He says it's a rare gift. It's the gift to see the beauty in life. It's the gift to have joy, I think.
One person may look at the world and say, "This is dog shit." But, those with the so-called "Mythological Mindset" could never see it that way. They see it as beauty, as happiness, as that free feeling that you feel when you spin in a circle and yodel and don't care who see's you. The myth makers had it, because it didn't matter what happened, the world was still basically good. You could even go as far to say (and you'd probably be correct) that it is the bad that makes the good so wonderful. Certainly it was a horrible thing that the Tsunami happened in Asia, but what more beauty could there be then the amazing outpouring of support from all over the world?
Why mention both of these? Well isn't it obvious? The Mythological Mindset is Joy, it is having Trancended. To touch that, and know full well what you are experiancing, that is Joy. That is what opens your eyes to beauty.
I've slowly begun to relize that I am not my body. It seems though, that I am not myself tonight either.
dude...quit smoking that shit....it's making you feeble-minded...
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That was beautiful, Zurtok.
QuoteBut, joy isn't that simple little feeling you get after you've achieved something, it's not the feeling you have on christmas morning after you open you're presents. Joy is what lingers, it's that peaceful inner calm that comes from love, love of everything. Acceptance of the Everything. They can't have joy though, because they think they can find it in a christmas present, or in a moment. It is not from without that it comes, it comes only from within.
Sometimes those little moments, I think, are a "taste" of it, because we'd go mad if we never experienced it at all - the visual I have carried within me is that I am forever trying to break through the ice, or open the REAL door, or something, to transcend, to connect to it all - and oh, if I couldn't just touch it, or glimpse it occasionally, I'd be a bigger mess than I am right now.
Quote from: That Communist Bastarddude...quit smoking that shit....it's making you feeble-minded...
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I hate to agree with you, you know I mean it, but as I was reading this I was thinking, what kind of drugs is this person on. Holy Crap!! But there were glimmers of some kind of awakening, so I am guessing that Zurtok is just in the process of absorbing whatever experience it was. If it was drug induced, it'll be reallllly weird when he reads what he wrote. :shock: :o :? :lol:
Keep in mind that the "Goth" set get joy from misery. Their gloom brings them peace. 8) That's one of the reasons I like shopping at Hot Topic, it is verrrry dark in there. Also why I hate Walmart, it is so bright, I feel like I need to keep my sunglasses on. An all those fakey plastic looking smiles. Who the hell is that happy all the time. Seriously.
QuoteKeep in mind that the "Goth" set get joy from misery. Their gloom brings them peace. Cool That's one of the reasons I like shopping at Hot Topic, it is verrrry dark in there. Also why I hate Walmart, it is so bright, I feel like I need to keep my sunglasses on. An all those fakey plastic looking smiles. Who the hell is that happy all the time. Seriously.
That's also true. Fuck fake happiness!
I had a surreal experience inside a MallWart once. I had just been to Planned Parenthood a few hours beforehand, and they gave me some pills(the kind that your typical Mallwart shopper would protest mightily) to take at certain times. During that window of time, I was in the Mallwart, and so I took them right there in the lobby and laughed my ass off.
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I wasn't on anything at the time, I was about as lucid as I ever get really. Of course, my RL friends will tell you that that my Lucidity is about the same as a Normal(tm) person who's completely stoned.
And I had to reread it multiple times to edit it already.
And I work at MallWart, I am happy when I'm there. Not because I'm there, but simply because I think I ought to be happy because I choose to be. Work can be fun :D
Yes, you only suffer because you want to suffer.
well said!
and AgComp, your sweeping generalization of everyone who shops at WalMart is a little cheesy....I mean, I shop at WalMart, for fuck's sake...so does everyone else I know...I think the views of the handful of suits who run the corporation probably have very little to do with the views of the proles who shop for cheap jeans and tupperware there...
also, "Goth" is absolutely the most retarded social phenomenon ever.
EVER.
anyone who's really that gloomy/depressed/bummed-out on life should just get it over with...also, guys wearing fishnets on their arms is just about the lamest thing I can think of....
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Quote from: eldora_avalonQuote from: That Communist Bastarddude...quit smoking that shit....it's making you feeble-minded...
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I hate to agree with you, you know I mean it, but as I was reading this I was thinking, what kind of drugs is this person on. Holy Crap!! But there were glimmers of some kind of awakening, so I am guessing that Zurtok is just in the process of absorbing whatever experience it was. If it was drug induced, it'll be reallllly weird when he reads what he wrote. :shock: :o :? :lol:
Keep in mind that the "Goth" set get joy from misery. Their gloom brings them peace. 8) That's one of the reasons I like shopping at Hot Topic, it is verrrry dark in there. Also why I hate Walmart, it is so bright, I feel like I need to keep my sunglasses on. An all those fakey plastic looking smiles. Who the hell is that happy all the time. Seriously.
teh less drugs i use the madder i become.
Quote from: Saint Zurtok Ah.D.But Darwinism is simply a belief that we are running the rat (from whom humans only separated 6 million years ago) race of evolution, and when the sun explodes, we're done.
Assuming that, by Darwinism, you are referring to Darwin's theory of evolution (and its successors) then you are very, very wrong. Darwin's theories provide a mechanism for the genesis of biological traits and, very carefully, do not make reference to the sun exploding or pass judgement on the quality or meaning of the lives that we live. Perhaps a more appropriate foil would be some sort of naive empiricism?
Hope this helps.
P.S. is the word you're looking for 'transcendent'?
Quote from: That Communist BastardI mean, I shop at WalMart, for fuck's sake...so does everyone else I know...I think the views of the handful of suits who run the corporation probably have very little to do with the views of the proles who shop for cheap jeans and tupperware there...
That is the funniest thing you have ever said...EVER :lol:
But seriously, I shop there occasionally, if I can't find something somewhere else, but how in the world can you stand the overly bright lighting. That is one of the things I like about shopping at Hot Topic, the darkness. And the loud music. I can go in there with a headache and it will be gone when I leave. I am twisted and backwards, I know. I also know there are places where about the only place to shop is Walmart. Within 10 minutes of my house I have
2 Walmarts
2 Targets
2 Meijers
2 Kmart
2 Shopping Malls
1 Sam's
1 Save-A-Lot
~12 grocery stores
~12 drug stores
I can pick and choose when I want to. Walmart is just an unpleasant experience for me. A lot of people I know shop there, too. If it wasn't for Target, I would probably have to shop there.
Quote from: Saint Zurtok Ah.D.I wasn't on anything at the time, I was about as lucid as I ever get really. Of course, my RL friends will tell you that that my Lucidity is about the same as a Normal(tm) person who's completely stoned.
And I had to reread it multiple times to edit it already.
And I work at MallWart, I am happy when I'm there. Not because I'm there, but simply because I think I ought to be happy because I choose to be. Work can be fun :D
You did sound a bit trippy, at times, not so much stoned. You did fine. It is difficult to express awarenesses like these. You'll change your mind about some of it, but you are breaking through barriers that you didn't even know were there.
We are as happy as we choose most of the time. Many people choose to be unhappy and they do not even realize they have made a choice. Other people wear their unhappiness like a royal garment. There are some who are only happy when they are miserable. My vocabulary would differ from yours, but I understand what you were trying to express.
The biggest problem I have with Walmart is the lights. I was mostly teasing about the people, but really, some of them are a bit much. You aren't one of the wacko entry way greeters, are you? What do they do, give them all the coffee they can drink? THAT might put a goofy grin like theirs on my face. About the only other thing would be ben wa balls, but then I think there would be other problems with that 8)
QuoteAssuming that, by Darwinism, you are referring to Darwin's theory of evolution (and its successors) then you are very, very wrong. Darwin's theories provide a mechanism for the genesis of biological traits and, very carefully, do not make reference to the sun exploding or pass judgement on the quality or meaning of the lives that we live. Perhaps a more appropriate foil would be some sort of naive empiricism?
Hope this helps.
P.S. is the word you're looking for 'transcendent'?
I was refering to Darwinism as the belief that we are the accidental product of sludge. We are probably the product of sludge, but I don't see it as being accidental.
And yes, however the hell you spell it, that's what I meant.
Quote from: horab fibslagerQuote from: eldora_avalonQuote from: That Communist Bastarddude...quit smoking that shit....it's making you feeble-minded...
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I hate to agree with you, you know I mean it, but as I was reading this I was thinking, what kind of drugs is this person on. Holy Crap!! But there were glimmers of some kind of awakening, so I am guessing that Zurtok is just in the process of absorbing whatever experience it was. If it was drug induced, it'll be reallllly weird when he reads what he wrote. :shock: :o :? :lol:
Keep in mind that the "Goth" set get joy from misery. Their gloom brings them peace. 8) That's one of the reasons I like shopping at Hot Topic, it is verrrry dark in there. Also why I hate Walmart, it is so bright, I feel like I need to keep my sunglasses on. An all those fakey plastic looking smiles. Who the hell is that happy all the time. Seriously.
teh less drugs i use the madder i become.
this is a lie now that i think on ait a bit, on account of it being some kind of curvy linsh type scale deal of precariously balanced unbalance.
Quoteand AgComp, your sweeping generalization of everyone who shops at WalMart is a little cheesy....I mean, I shop at WalMart, for fuck's sake...so does everyone else I know...I think the views of the handful of suits who run the corporation probably have very little to do with the views of the proles who shop for cheap jeans and tupperware there...
Cheesy? Yes. True? Yesish. Walmart's packaged as a very down-home, middle-American "wholesome" family shop, the kind of place that censors its CDs and would sell censored movies if it isn't already - I'm surprised *you* shop there, given that it's such an anti-communist place - but at the time, it just struck me as funny to be popping contraceptives in a store that caters to a certain "God, Gays and Guns" mentality which includes a deep hatred of reproductive rights.
And yes, they are too fucking bright, but I think that's just because there are too goddamn many flourescent lights in their stores.
i started to read this and i got distracted after the wisedom part.. and i skimmed the rest and read "dogshit".
great rant. anything that contains a reference to dogshit has to be great.
kim
Hey, Pinko Bastard, take it easy on the Goths... I'm much rather hang with them than with Hippies, or the pseudo-punks who think My Chemical Romance are doing something new & innovative...
Besides, they mostly keep to themselves, anyway.
And Zurtok, humans don't need an ineffable higher powere to find joy. They can find joy within themselves, no religion needed.
hmm...I'd say it's a toss-up between hippies and goths...although I'd certainly choose either over anyone who listens to MCR, or Taking Back Sunday, or Hawthorne Heights, or any of the unbelieveably shitty bands that seem to have flooded onto the once-reliably hardcore Victory Records over the last 2 years or so...I mean, WTF? how do you let your label go from Earth Crisis and Hatebreed and Snapcase to that crap?
that said, there is still nothing more utterly fucktarded than guys wearing fishnets on their arms....
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Since you're not gay, you're gonna have to trust me on this one...
This is Hot (http://img121.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img121&image=trent11dt.png).
no. no it's not.
Trent Reznor is one ugly motherfucker. And not the cool "I'm hot 'cuz I'm ugly" kinda ugly...just the "fucking ugly" kinda ugly...
and male arms + fishnets never equals hotness.
anyone who says otherwise is simply displaying their horrible taste, something I didn't think you were guilty of, my friend...
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Hey, don't take it from me...
Quote from: That hot chick who never gave you the time of day when you were trying to hit on herI love guys with fishnets on their arms! Soooo hot!
Not to mention that the arm/fishnet thing is neither required of goths, nor seen much these days.
Quote from: That Communist Bastardno. no it's not.
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Yes, yes it is. Maybe it is just an old fart thing. Or maybe it is because I have a shirt like that and boots like that. But the funniest thing is you making fun of Trent Reznor, because I kind of always thought you had a head like a hole. :P
I'm only going to dignify you with a response long enough to inform you that I won't even dignify you with a response.
8)
::wonders to whom that Communist Turd is referring::
Quote from: LMNO::wonders to whom that Communist Turd is referring::
I fear it is the both of US. Only Eris could get you and me on the same side of an argument against the Bastard. Isn't life funny. :wink:
PS I am still smarter than both of you ;P
not you, my friend...I will always dignify you with a response, even if nothing about my response is dignified...see, I actually think you're pretty cool...I think most people suck, even the people I pretend to think are cool...it's also a big point in your favor that you live in Boston, where I hang out on occasion and am always looking for new and interesting people to hang out with and places to hang out with them at...
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::swats TCB over the head with the Grammar Nazi stick::
But will you hang out with me if I wear fishnets on my arms?!
OW! you hit me right in my dangling participle!
of course I'll hang out with you if you wear fishnets on your arms...
I just won't think you're hot.
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Eldora...the only way you're smarter than me is if we've been teleported to bizzarro world....if you were that smart, you wouldn't live anywhere near Flint, MI...
And here i was, trying to make you jump the fence.
::goes back to the drawing board::
Hmm... what's left. Rohypnol... That might work...
Quote from: LMNO::swats TCB over the head with the Grammar Nazi stick::
But will you hang out with me if I wear fishnets on my arms?!
I will, and I can wear my shirt, but I will need a Tshirt under, or possible over, the fishnet shirt, and my combat boots, and, um, let me see, um, we can paint each other's fingernails black and we can be
TWINS hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
I think perhaps I HAVE had enough caffeine, for the moment.
PS OK, Grammer Nazi, what is hanging out of where?!? hahahahahahahaha OK, I'll stop. I think my headache finally went away.
dude, you're a girl...no one cares if you wear fishnets on your arms...
and FYI, LMNO...I've taken roofies recreationally, and while they certainly fucked me up good, they didn't quite fuck me up that much...
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Hmmm...
::looks at notes::
"follow up roofies with subtle application of baseball bat to back of subject's head."
::double checks notes::
No, it's ok, I think I can handle this one.
Quote from: That Communist BastardOW! you hit me right in my dangling participle!
of course I'll hang out with you if you wear fishnets on your arms...
I just won't think you're hot.
8)
Blah, blah, blah,
Mostly I stay here because this is where my family is. But I may have to leave because the employment situation is so bad.
no need for violence...if you really can't live without a taste, I'd suggest a combination of Bourbon and Gammahydroxybutyrate...but there damn well better be a stack of bills on the pillow when I wake up....
8)
Considering I haven't paid my cable or gas bill in a couple of months, you've got a deal...
Quote from: That Communist Bastarddude, you're a girl...no one cares if you wear fishnets on your arms...
8)
Is this going to end up like the Aerosmith song?
Dude looks like a laaaady, du, du, du, dude looks like a laaaadaaay :roll:
Quote from: eldora_avalonQuote from: LMNO::swats TCB over the head with the Grammar Nazi stick::
But will you hang out with me if I wear fishnets on my arms?!
I will, and I can wear my shirt, but I will need a Tshirt under, or possible over, the fishnet shirt, and my combat boots, and, um, let me see, um, we can paint each other's fingernails black and we can be TWINS
Seriously...
(http://s7ondemand1.scene7.com/is/image/HotTopic/369875_hi?wid=199)I usually just wear the boots, not any of the zippered on peices, but every now and then I put them all together.
(http://s7ondemand1.scene7.com/is/image/HotTopic/802260_hi?wid=199)Kind of like the one I have.
(http://s7ondemand1.scene7.com/is/image/HotTopic/241535_hi?wid=199)I have one of these and so does my neice, but I promise not to wear it. This was just to annoy my relatives on Xmas day. And it worked. :twisted:
(http://s7ondemand1.scene7.com/is/image/HotTopic/276509_hi?wid=199)I got this for my friend that has a new baby.
(http://s7ondemand1.scene7.com/is/image/HotTopic/262575_hi?wid=100)I actually have a different brand :P
So any time you want to dress like a freak, let me know. Of course I am not sure of your location, so it wouldn't be as much fun. But you can tell people you're meeting your twin then tell them to piss off.
Quote from: eldora avalonhey! look at me, dammit! I'm so weird! I'm a total freak who's totally not into all your normal trendy bullshit! that's why I shop at Hot Topic, which is owned by The Gap Inc.
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Quote from: That Communist BastardQuote from: eldora avalonhey! look at me, dammit! I'm so weird! I'm a total freak who's totally not into all your normal trendy bullshit! that's why I shop at Hot Topic, which is owned by The Gap Inc.
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It's not owned by the Gap, I checked. It may have been at some point, but not now. I'm just having a weird day and I'm sharing with you. ;P
sorry...IMHO, dressing like every other angsty teenager that shops at the mall isn't all that weird...I'm not trying to pick on you (well, not too badly anyway), I just refuse to buy into the notion that weirdness can be conveyed through how you dress...I think it's a lot weirder to dress like a respectable member of the business community while simultaneously working to subvert everything said community holds dear...after all, if you dress like a freak, no one's even gonna take you seriously enough to give you the chance to pull some fo' real freaky shit....plus, when you do whatever dastardly deed it is that you end up doing, you're much more likely to get away with it...in short, the real freaks never look the part...
8)
EDIT: but thanks for sharing...and don't let my bitchiness put you off...I'm just being generally pissy today...the combination of sub-zero temperatures and being out of the hippie lettuce has put me a bit off...
Quote from: eldora_avalonQuote from: That Communist Bastardno. no it's not.
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Yes, yes it is. Maybe it is just an old fart thing. Or maybe it is because I have a shirt like that and boots like that. But the funniest thing is you making fun of Trent Reznor, because I kind of always thought you had a head like a hole. :P
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA
Quote from: That Communist Bastardsorry...IMHO, dressing like every other angsty teenager that shops at the mall isn't all that weird...I'm not trying to pick on you (well, not too badly anyway), I just refuse to buy into the notion that weirdness can be conveyed through how you dress...I think it's a lot weirder to dress like a respectable member of the business community while simultaneously working to subvert everything said community holds dear...after all, if you dress like a freak, no one's even gonna take you seriously enough to give you the chance to pull some fo' real freaky shit....plus, when you do whatever dastardly deed it is that you end up doing, you're much more likely to get away with it...in short, the real freaks never look the part...
8)
EDIT: but thanks for sharing...and don't let my bitchiness put you off...I'm just being generally pissy today...the combination of sub-zero temperatures and being out of the hippie lettuce has put me a bit off...
I wear the boots, all the time. I usually paint my nails red or something. I take advantage of Halloween and paint them black every year and leave them that way for a week or two. I also love the Renasainse(sp?) festival, cheesy though it is, because I can wear anything I want and fit in. This time of year I wear jeans and sweaters. Oh, and we are having a little heat wave, I see it is up to 12, with North wind at 21 MPH. I also am having a weird day. Lack of sleep, too much caffeine, weird hormones. Blah, blah, blah, no problem.
OK, I just realised I have entered the Twilight Zone, I gave almost the exact argument to someone else about a week ago. HMmmm... I don't even want to know.
PS, If you'll recall, I haven't been a teenager for a realllly long time. And because I buy big ticket things, like boots, the people at the store are usually nice to me. :wink:
12 degrees! jesus...I'm heading over there so we can hit the beach...that's about 30 degrees warmer than it is here....not including wind chill, which at this point is down to -30 or so, and getting colder...which basically means I couldn't dress like a freak even if I wanted to...or if I did, no one would notice cuz it'd be buried under 2 layers of sub-zero rated outerwear...
*wonders if LL Bean makes punk gear*
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Oh yeah, it's a pinic. Winds at 25 to 35 miles an hour, 13 degrees, 1 to 3 inches of snow overnight.
It's supposed to get up to 30 here tomorrow! Time to break out the flip-flops and bermuda shorts!
Quote from: WishfarpleIt's supposed to get up to 30 here tomorrow! Time to break out the flip-flops and bermuda shorts!
We're supposed to get to 28, but I am not wearing flip flops in the snow. And I don't have any Bermuda shorts, plus I don't think they call them that any more. BTW, like my new fractal? :wink:
yeah babe! Is that a Julia, a Mandelbrot? Never studied fractals nearly as much as I should have, since they're hella neat. I still miss your Sierpinski Gasket, though. I wrote a program for an assignment once that drew one in 3D :)
Quote from: Wishfarpleyeah babe! Is that a Julia, a Mandelbrot? Never studied fractals nearly as much as I should have, since they're hella neat. I still miss your Sierpinski Gasket, though. I wrote a program for an assignment once that drew one in 3D :)
Mandelbrot. I tried to find the program earlier, but the links were all broken. I clicked a button called 'inside out' then clicked scroll to scroll through the color iterations til I got a color combo I liked. I played around with another program here at home for my son tonight and he thought it was great.
I just read the thing and I wonder.
I never knew Goths to be whiny or sad. They were just into darkness, and vampire shit. That made them happy. (Plus a lot of synth eighties music along with nineties industrial music). So I dunno. Perhaps the Goths you ran into were a bit on the zoloft side.
Goths are whiny bitches.
so is most everyone else.
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most of of the goths iI know are actually super happy people
we just have dark and twisted minds and like dark adn twisted things
its not so much about death or sadness or depression
its about the darker side of life
anybody who is super happy is probably fucking clueless.
8)
well ignorance is bliss
truer words were never spoken.
I'm just bitter because it's too late to go back.
8)
while Im not saying my gothy friends are ignorant, they are happy
just a point in clarification
though I will admit some of the more moody flappy gothy ones are super dumb and
maybe there is a correlationthere
happy = smarter
sad = not so much...
hm,mmm
Quote from: Malaulwhile Im not saying my gothy friends are ignorant, they are happy
can't have one without the other, methinks...
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Quote from: Malaulits about the darker side of life
sings: always look on the dark side of life....de doo...de doo be do be doo...etc
Quote from: GOATQuote from: Malaulwhile Im not saying my gothy friends are ignorant, they are happy
can't have one without the other, methinks...
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methinks you thinks to damn much
methinks thou hast most certainly identified the root of the problem...
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