In the end, I have decided that this is a loss, for two reasons:
1. The Arizona constitution requires that his replacement be of the same party, and the seat sticks until 2022.
2. McCain miraculously grew a spine for the famous "thumbs down" moment, which is why my aging parents can still afford health insurance, which is why my mother survived her cancer. That obviously buys a lot with me.
That vote was one of the most pivotal and important votes of the last decade, He held back America from becoming that much worse for so many people. I didn't like the man but I recognise his good judgment and compassion in that act and am thankful for it.
That said, he was able to make that important gesture only because there was someone WORSE out there trying to push horrible on the country. He was the beast you know, but even he knew where to draw the line.
He would have been a better president then what is there now, and quite frankly, even as a corpse, he still is.
The depth of US politics never fails to amaze me:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/8/26/1790997/-AZ-GOP-Candidate-Kelli-Ward-Says-McCain-Died-to-Harm-Her-Campaign
again the homeland of horrormirth does not disappoint
And remember, THAT's the "Grand Old Party".
McCain the soldier is someone I can't fault much. Staying a POW under the conditions he did, refusing early repatriation when it was offered...it was the right thing to do of course, but it can't have been easy (especially when you recall at one point they were beating him every 2 hours. While he had dysentery).
The politician is a much more mixed bag. I can definitely understand why people might like him, for example for killing Trump's attempts to undo ACA, or why he's quite popular in Eastern Europe. At the same time, his easy access to journalists is definitely why they courted him, and put on rose-tinted glasses that allowed them to ignore that he was in favour of involving the US in pretty much every ongoing conflict on the planet, and creating several more besides. His ethical stands were inconsistent at best, and mostly notable because unlike the rest of the Republican Party, he at least had some discernible values in the first place, and his dissent from the party orthodoxy largely overstated.
Still, those minor differences did put him a cut above most of his party, so that is something.
Quote from: MMIX on August 26, 2018, 04:06:32 PM
The depth of US politics never fails to amaze me:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/8/26/1790997/-AZ-GOP-Candidate-Kelli-Ward-Says-McCain-Died-to-Harm-Her-Campaign
again the homeland of horrormirth does not disappoint
Kelli Ward is so much worse up close. Not even kidding. She's the Martin Bormann of our generation.
Anyone who can be badmouthed by both sides the moment he keels over must be doing something right.
Back in 08 I was registered as a republican. Not ideologically -- In 2000, I had volunteered to work a polling center in Connecticut, and state law requires a minimum of 2 dems and 2 republicans. They couldn't find a second republican, so they asked me if they could register me red "for the day", and then we could change it back. It never changed back, and I got the privilege of voting in republican primaries -- which are almost always more exciting and fun than the dem primaries.
At the time, the dem race was between Obama and Clinton, and I felt that I'd be okay with either of them winning. The republican race was higher stakes, I really wanted Romney to get bumped out. (at the time, he was doing a religious right shtick).
I remember this moment in 2008 when McCain went on The Daily Show. I don't remember what they talked about, but I remember he came off as earnest and intelligent, and Stewart took kinda cheap potshots at him which he endured stoically. And I thought - that composure, that ability to roll with the punches and not get baited - that's a good presidential quality. Of the republican choices, I thought he was the best.
And he tapped Sarah Palin as VP. Ugh, what a dumb mistake, activating the tea party like that. She really thought SHE was running for president.
Obviously I don't agree with a lot of McCain's politics, but today in 2018, the courage to say No to your own party is something I respect.
Wait, don't we have a McCain emote? ahhh yes,
:mccain:
This is a fairly savage takedown of McCain done by simply reviewing the facts, but as far as I can tell it's accurate.
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/08/mccain
Quote from: LMNO on August 27, 2018, 02:46:29 PM
This is a fairly savage takedown of McCain done by simply reviewing the facts, but as far as I can tell it's accurate.
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/08/mccain
Wow. That is good to keep in mind.
Quote from: LMNO on August 27, 2018, 02:46:29 PM
This is a fairly savage takedown of McCain done by simply reviewing the facts, but as far as I can tell it's accurate.
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/08/mccain
I can't argue with any of that. That being said, see my OP.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 27, 2018, 06:46:15 PM
Quote from: LMNO on August 27, 2018, 02:46:29 PM
This is a fairly savage takedown of McCain done by simply reviewing the facts, but as far as I can tell it's accurate.
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/08/mccain
I can't argue with any of that. That being said, see my OP.
Understood.
Quote from: MMIX on August 26, 2018, 04:06:32 PM
The depth of US politics never fails to amaze me:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/8/26/1790997/-AZ-GOP-Candidate-Kelli-Ward-Says-McCain-Died-to-Harm-Her-Campaign
again the homeland of horrormirth does not disappoint
But she can TOP THAT.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/kelli-ward-compares-political-correctness-to-cancer-after-john-mccains-death/ar-BBMw5Xv?ocid=spartanntp
AGE OF ERIS: Word is, on of our board members may take John McCain's seat. Watch for a name you've never heard before. All in all, she'd be a decent choice (for the Arizona value of "decent"). She's a plutocrat, but hasn't shown any obviously insane behavior so far, and she thinks of Trump as the new rich scum he is.
Well that is an interesting development.
Quote from: Hoopla on August 27, 2018, 08:59:42 PM
Well that is an interesting development.
Governor Ducey isn't a fan of Trump, either.
Quote from: Cramulus on August 27, 2018, 02:02:20 PM
Back in 08 I was registered as a republican. Not ideologically -- In 2000, I had volunteered to work a polling center in Connecticut, and state law requires a minimum of 2 dems and 2 republicans. They couldn't find a second republican, so they asked me if they could register me red "for the day", and then we could change it back. It never changed back, and I got the privilege of voting in republican primaries -- which are almost always more exciting and fun than the dem primaries.
At the time, the dem race was between Obama and Clinton, and I felt that I'd be okay with either of them winning. The republican race was higher stakes, I really wanted Romney to get bumped out. (at the time, he was doing a religious right shtick).
I remember this moment in 2008 when McCain went on The Daily Show. I don't remember what they talked about, but I remember he came off as earnest and intelligent, and Stewart took kinda cheap potshots at him which he endured stoically. And I thought - that composure, that ability to roll with the punches and not get baited - that's a good presidential quality. Of the republican choices, I thought he was the best.
And he tapped Sarah Palin as VP. Ugh, what a dumb mistake, activating the tea party like that. She really thought SHE was running for president.
Obviously I don't agree with a lot of McCain's politics, but today in 2018, the courage to say No to your own party is something I respect.
Wait, don't we have a McCain emote? ahhh yes,
:mccain:
I bet if McCain had a do-over he wouldn't have picked Sarah Palin. I doubt he had any idea of who the fuck she was, but some "smart guy" on his campaign probably talked him into it. I mean, I can't imagine McCain hating Trump but liking Palin. Those two are cut from the same cloth.
"You have to have a woman's touch, to soften out your smoother edges, someone with a level head to balance your Maverick personality. Sarah Palin should be perfect"
- Disgruntled unpaid intern tasked with selecting candidates on his last day at the office.
Quote from: Norman on August 28, 2018, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: Cramulus on August 27, 2018, 02:02:20 PM
Back in 08 I was registered as a republican. Not ideologically -- In 2000, I had volunteered to work a polling center in Connecticut, and state law requires a minimum of 2 dems and 2 republicans. They couldn't find a second republican, so they asked me if they could register me red "for the day", and then we could change it back. It never changed back, and I got the privilege of voting in republican primaries -- which are almost always more exciting and fun than the dem primaries.
At the time, the dem race was between Obama and Clinton, and I felt that I'd be okay with either of them winning. The republican race was higher stakes, I really wanted Romney to get bumped out. (at the time, he was doing a religious right shtick).
I remember this moment in 2008 when McCain went on The Daily Show. I don't remember what they talked about, but I remember he came off as earnest and intelligent, and Stewart took kinda cheap potshots at him which he endured stoically. And I thought - that composure, that ability to roll with the punches and not get baited - that's a good presidential quality. Of the republican choices, I thought he was the best.
And he tapped Sarah Palin as VP. Ugh, what a dumb mistake, activating the tea party like that. She really thought SHE was running for president.
Obviously I don't agree with a lot of McCain's politics, but today in 2018, the courage to say No to your own party is something I respect.
Wait, don't we have a McCain emote? ahhh yes,
:mccain:
I bet if McCain had a do-over he wouldn't have picked Sarah Palin. I doubt he had any idea of who the fuck she was, but some "smart guy" on his campaign probably talked him into it. I mean, I can't imagine McCain hating Trump but liking Palin. Those two are cut from the same cloth.
He was forced into Palin. He wanted Leiberman.
I think with Lieberman as vice he could have beaten Obama. It would have been two white moderates vs the black guy with the Muslim name. Instead he went with Caribou Barbie and scared all the people concerned about his frail health. I know I was considering voting third party until I saw what a nightmare Palin was
It's probably not often in his life that anyone has ever wanted Lieberman.
Quote from: Pergamos on August 28, 2018, 06:03:42 PM
I think with Lieberman as vice he could have beaten Obama. It would have been two white moderates vs the black guy with the Muslim name. Instead he went with Caribou Barbie and scared all the people concerned about his frail health. I know I was considering voting third party until I saw what a nightmare Palin was
Naw. He would have come closer, but Lieberman basically WAS McCain, and wouldn't add anything to the ticket.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gop-slows-efforts-to-rename-senate-building-for-mccain/ar-BBMxqqz?ocid=spartanntp
ETA: Instead of a building, McConnell may suggest a particular conference room. Not even kidding.
HOLY SHIT, INHOFE GRABS THE NOBEL PRIZE FOR INSENSITIVITY!
:lulz:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gop-senator-mccain-is-partially-to-blame-for-controversy-over-white-house-flags/ar-BBMwY9J?ocid=spartanntp
QuoteIn response to a question about the flag controversy, Inhofe, who is expected to succeed McCain as the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said the former GOP presidential nominee was not "courteous" to Trump.
"Well, you know, frankly, I think that John McCain is partially to blame for that because he is very outspoken," Inhofe told reporters, according to CNN. "He disagreed with the president in certain areas and wasn't too courteous about it."
In short, the President's feelings are bruised, and McCain shouldn't have dressed in such a skimpy outfit.
When the line "some men just want to watch the world burn" showed up in the Dark Knight ten years ago it seemed like just a badass nihilistic quote. But now I get it. I really get it.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 28, 2018, 09:39:48 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gop-slows-efforts-to-rename-senate-building-for-mccain/ar-BBMxqqz?ocid=spartanntp
ETA: Instead of a building, McConnell may suggest a particular conference room. Not even kidding.
The good bit, for me: As opposed to a building currently named after a Southern segregationist, Richard Russell.
And then a touch of class from the alt-right. By which I mean "absolutely repulsive behavior".
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/twitter-image-threatens-shooting-meghan-mccain-her-husband-blasts-twitters-ceo/ar-BBMH9CV?ocid=spartanntp