Sorry I'm a noob here, so forgive me if this isn't the right area ;)
So for an art/design project, I need to create some kind of representation of Mummu/Mumu, but even after countless hours of searching, I cannot find an ancient representation of him -- nothing on tablets or in poems or sculptures or anything.
Mummu almost aways means something like "that from which things emerge from chaos". It's by Mummu that nonexistent things are birthed into our reality from the abyss. This is why Mummu remains with us today in language (.e., Mu=Ma=mother, material, etc.)
There are three main takes on Mummu.
1. As part of the primordian creation trinity (Mummu, Abzu, Tiamat). Abzu and Tiamat were of the fresh water and saltware while many understood Mummu as being a fog that floated above both. Mummu was kinda a craftsman/wise guru guy/advisor of the three. When the new generation of kids gods got to nutty, Tiamat was killed and Abzu and Mummu got knocked down for some eternal sleepy time while Marduk took the thrown.
2. Mummu was also seen as somewhat of a power and a label and not necessarily as a being. In many places, god were referred to as Mummu-Tiamat, Mummu-Marduk, Mummu-Ea which hinted that they somewhat possessed the Mummu power. If you worse the Mummu-brand designer jeans, you would get the power of Mummu to do cool stuff and rain down hurt on your enemies.
3. Mummu, in the story of Zu (which means wisdom) also described the process by which an arrow left the rump of an animal and returned to it's bow. The feathers of the arrow turned back into a bird and the entrails of the animal returned to the animal. Mummu, in a sense, was the returning to the earlier state from which things originated.
Lastly, due to creative writers making tall tales, Mummu is related to Lemuria....lots of stuff here but nearly unimportant.
Sooooo.....what am I looking for?
I'm trying to find some signs/symbols/archetypes/designs/depictions, etc. that might somehow represent Mummu. The best I have is the old and tired pointy chaos symbol and or one of the names of Marduk symbol (something like #39, don't remember the number). Neither actually shows Mummu or describes much about it.
Any thoughts? :)
I'm not sure if there is a visual representation of Mummu.
Sumerian and Babylonian mythology isn't exactly an area of expertise, but my understanding is that one of the meanings of Mummu is akin to the Greek logos, representing knowledge and nous, as opposed to the more elemental approach with Tiamat and Apsû.
As such, if there is a visual representation, it might be that of Babylonian writing, the alphabet itself.
The KLF burned cash and other modern trappings as a sort of sacrifice to Mumu. You might use a modern symbol containing cash, fire, and smoke. That way you keep a sort of triune theme. I am not aware of any more ancient symbols for Mumu, but given its nature postmodern symbolism might work just as well. Mumu is both Chaos and Aftermath, the great transition, the forger and destroyer alike.
Watch this vid. Everyone. Seriously.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1snD2zm1pBQ
I was under the impression that Mummu was just an aspect of various deities.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 28, 2019, 04:27:22 PM
I was under the impression that Mummu was just an aspect of various deities.
Naw Mummu appears to be a separate primordial diety, but its attributes are often appended to other dieties as honorifics of a sort. I just started diving for more info though. Noob got me going.
There's heavy water symbolism as well as a semse of a body, body of water, knowledge, corporeal being... Very interesting stuff.
Found Mummu on the first try.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummu
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 28, 2019, 04:45:21 PM
Found Mummu on the first try.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummu
That's a representation of Enki/Ea -- both have a strong connection to Mummu...and the connection varies a bit over time (i.e., they helped kill Mummu, they became empowered by Mummu, etc.), but Enki is very distinct from Mummu.
The name Enki can be broken down easily
En = An = God/Lord
Ki = Earth
So he's kinda a god of earthly things. He has an attachment to water, but not like his Daddy Abzu who was pretty much the formless primordial god of the fresh waters from deep inside the earth.
Quote from: HappyMoo on August 28, 2019, 08:22:56 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on August 28, 2019, 04:45:21 PM
Found Mummu on the first try.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummu
That's a representation of Enki/Ea -- both have a strong connection to Mummu...and the connection varies a bit over time (i.e., they helped kill Mummu, they became empowered by Mummu, etc.), but Enki is very distinct from Mummu.
The name Enki can be broken down easily
En = An = God/Lord
Ki = Earth
So he's kinda a god of earthly things. He has an attachment to water, but not like his Daddy Abzu who was pretty much the formless primordial god of the fresh waters from deep inside the earth.
You seem to know a lot about what you're looking for, for someone who came here looking for answers.
Quote from: Cain on August 28, 2019, 03:12:01 PM
Sumerian and Babylonian mythology isn't exactly an area of expertise, but my understanding is that one of the meanings of Mummu is akin to the Greek logos, representing knowledge and nous, as opposed to the more elemental approach with Tiamat and Apsû.
As such, if there is a visual representation, it might be that of Babylonian writing, the alphabet itself.
(http://www.tarrdaniel.com/documents/Hermetika/images/necronomicon/MUMMU.jpg)
This is about as close as I could come to anything -- it's one of the 50 names of Marduk and this one is Mummu-Marduk. Unfortunately the design isn't cool enough to lend itself to much of anything other than a death metal cd cover lol.
But yes, my growing understanding is that while Mummu is a primordial god (one of the trinity), he's presence appears more as a power one can behold that an actual physical presence. That's kinda tough to depict graphically :)
It's called Marmaduke. It's a massive dog which comically believes itself to be tiny.
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on August 28, 2019, 04:14:55 PM
Mumu is both Chaos and Aftermath, the great transition, the forger and destroyer alike.
I have considered some kind of "recycling" vibe in my depiction. It sounds much like Shiva, and honestly considering that he predates Shiva, it wouldn't surprise me that they share the same source mythologies long lost in history.
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on August 28, 2019, 04:37:21 PM
Naw Mummu appears to be a separate primordial diety, but its attributes are often appended to other dieties as honorifics of a sort. I just started diving for more info though. Noob got me going.
There's heavy water symbolism as well as a semse of a body, body of water, knowledge, corporeal being... Very interesting stuff.
You're absolutely right. I didn't appreciate until recently the dual nature of Mummu as both a being and as an attribute/power one could possess/merge with. Mummu is the Power of Grayskull for Prince Adam lol
Quote from: Hoopla! on August 28, 2019, 08:24:30 PM
You seem to know a lot about what you're looking for, for someone who came here looking for answers.
Ever since I discovered Mumu/Mummu with the KLF many years ago and realized it was the soundtrack for the Illuminatus! Trilogy, I've had a fascination with the topic. Long before that, I fell in love with Samuel Noah Kramer, and old, old author and researcher of Sumerian mythology (specifically Inanna).
Despite having an interest, my knowledge has been limited (work, life, etc., you know). As the internet grew, so did the amount of knowledge about these topics.
I've probably picked up more info in the last week than I'd picked up in the last 20 years (thanks internet!). Still, I'm lacking info and I'm actively searching for even the tiniest clue for something maybe I've missed. I simply need some kinda graphical representation of Mummu. I could just invent any ol' thing -- like a chaos symbol or rehash a sacred chao or something...but I'd like something more accurate and realistic.
I figure that the people then probably had amulets and talismans or something to represent Mummu so they could assume his power (much like one gets to wear a cross to assume the power of jesus or a skillet to assume the power of Paula Deen), yet I've not been able to find anything like that.
I've contacted the British Museum as they seem to have a premiere collection of Sumerian and Mesopotamian items
stolen collected from the mideast, but they're apparently too busy to write me back :)
Soooo....I'm hoping anyone may have pieces of the puzzle I've missed :) Mummu appears to be far more interesting than I imagined.
Why would you choose to visually represent what was originally meant to not be visually represented?
Quote from: The Johnny on August 29, 2019, 02:16:17 AM
Why would you choose to visually represent what was originally meant to not be visually represented?
I don't know that it wasn't originally mean to be represented visually. Maybe it was represented visually and lost to time. Maybe they made Mummu adventure coloring books for the kids :) Even if there was some taboo stopping it from being represented, why would I *not* want to represent it anyway? :) People still make Mohammed cartoons :)