Blarg!
I welcome Bush as the titular Pope of the Republican party, for several reasons. Most importantly though, and please listen for it is said here first, by the mid-term elections in 2006 a rift will begin to widen in the Republican party, splitting the moderates from the hardcore religious right. This rift will happen because Bush will make it so, and that is good for Americans of all parties and affiliations. The result will be a marginalization of the religious right, putting it back into the representative 20% (where it belongs) rather than in the driver's seat of the presidency. After 2006 Bush will be a lame duck, the rift will widen, and by 2008 the Republican primary will feature strong moderates to challenge the religious right. That is good for everyone who cares about freedom and liberty. It is also good for chaos, as the order of things under Bush will have been disrupted and change MUST occur. Change is always good, most of the time. When that change causes the religious right to take a back seat, it is very good indeed. So you heard it here people... by 2006 the Republican crack will widen to a rift, and Dobson, Ashcroft, Falwell and all their mindlings will be cast back into the obscurity they so richly deserve.
Rog, usually I just find your histrionics amusing...this time I find myself reading a mirror image of my own thoughts...I'm glad I'm not the only one of the "stay and fight or you're a worthless litte pussy" crowd to come to the conclusion that I was wrong and that there's little point in trying to salvage this failed nation...or rather, there may be some point to it, but it's not a cause I'm willing to waste the rest of my lifetime pursuing...I would add that Canada may not be far away enough to avoid the shitstorm when it goes down for real...
8)
Scytano,
I think you may be right. Fact is that Presidents need their parties more than parties need their Presidents. And Bush is pushing a hardcore neocon agenda that's scaring the crap out of some of the newbie and moderate Congresscritters in his party. And they can turn their backs on him. Why? Because he's got 4 years left in that seat and that is IT. HE is no longer up for re-election....but THEY ARE.
And if you're a moderate Republican representing a purple district(most districts ARE purple if you look at the electoral votes by county or by percentage) you're not going to jeopardize your own re-election by alienating a whole bunch of your constituents just to follow a lame duck's lead...
Quote from: GOATRog, usually I just find your histrionics amusing...this time I find myself reading a mirror image of my own thoughts...I'm glad I'm not the only one of the "stay and fight or you're a worthless litte pussy" crowd to come to the conclusion that I was wrong and that there's little point in trying to salvage this failed nation...or rather, there may be some point to it, but it's not a cause I'm willing to waste the rest of my lifetime pursuing...I would add that Canada may not be far away enough to avoid the shitstorm when it goes down for real...
8)
Oh, *I'm* not leaving.
I'm going to do as much pointless damage as I can, out of pure vindictiveness.
Quote from: ScytanoI welcome Bush as the titular Pope of the Republican party, for several reasons. Most importantly though, and please listen for it is said here first, by the mid-term elections in 2006 a rift will begin to widen in the Republican party, splitting the moderates from the hardcore religious right. This rift will happen because Bush will make it so, and that is good for Americans of all parties and affiliations. The result will be a marginalization of the religious right, putting it back into the representative 20% (where it belongs) rather than in the driver's seat of the presidency. After 2006 Bush will be a lame duck, the rift will widen, and by 2008 the Republican primary will feature strong moderates to challenge the religious right. That is good for everyone who cares about freedom and liberty. It is also good for chaos, as the order of things under Bush will have been disrupted and change MUST occur. Change is always good, most of the time. When that change causes the religious right to take a back seat, it is very good indeed. So you heard it here people... by 2006 the Republican crack will widen to a rift, and Dobson, Ashcroft, Falwell and all their mindlings will be cast back into the obscurity they so richly deserve.
Um, the GOP isn't the problem.
At least, they are a very LITTLE piece of the problem.
This shit would be going down, no matter WHO was elected.
Whenever I see DHS, I cant help but think of the sofa store called that in the UK. It just doesnt have that fearful inspiration of the SS, or the NKVD. Espescially when you think they are sofa salesmen.
*thinks Roger should either start with the malicious destruction already or just stop talking bullshit*
just saying.
8)
Oh and to add something serious, it does look like there will be a neocon/traditional republican split of sorts. I dont know exactly how much pull the party can have on the President, but it does look on the cards. I remember pre-election, teh BBC talking about Snowcroft and other traditional Republicans wanting a return to older based theories of foreign policy. I didnt see any mention of the domestic situation, make of that what you will.
This country just passed a law allowing the Home Office Secratery to place anyone under house arrest, and a lovely law called the ASBO (AntiSocial Behaviour Order) which have started to be used agsint peaceful protestors, apprently. But it doesnt sound half as bad as what the US has. Well, we will see after the elections here what Bush's number one fan decides to do. Good luck to all you out there.
Quote from: GOAT*thinks Roger should either start with the malicious destruction already or just stop talking bullshit*
just saying.
8)
Been doing it for years.
And you can just fuck right off.
Just saying.
There very well could be a split with the PNAC wing. Honestly though, it will depend fully on where Iraq and Afghanistan are in 2007. If those two nations are doing reasonably well, then the PNAC agenda will have been vindicated. If not, then they are out the door and Scowcroft and his ilk will get another shot. I think it is much more liekly that someone like Guiliani will be the nominee in 2008... strong on military and liberal on social issues. At least, that's my hope.
Quote from: ScytanoI welcome Bush as the titular Pope of the Republican party, for several reasons. Most importantly though, and please listen for it is said here first, by the mid-term elections in 2006 a rift will begin to widen in the Republican party, splitting the moderates from the hardcore religious right. This rift will happen because Bush will make it so, and that is good for Americans of all parties and affiliations. The result will be a marginalization of the religious right, putting it back into the representative 20% (where it belongs) rather than in the driver's seat of the presidency. After 2006 Bush will be a lame duck, the rift will widen, and by 2008 the Republican primary will feature strong moderates to challenge the religious right. That is good for everyone who cares about freedom and liberty. It is also good for chaos, as the order of things under Bush will have been disrupted and change MUST occur. Change is always good, most of the time. When that change causes the religious right to take a back seat, it is very good indeed. So you heard it here people... by 2006 the Republican crack will widen to a rift, and Dobson, Ashcroft, Falwell and all their mindlings will be cast back into the obscurity they so richly deserve.
I really hope so. It'll take a few more turns toward the police state for my naive idealism to come crashing down, I think
I wasn't sure where to put this, so I might as well drop it here.
SCOTUS rules that drug sniffing dogs can be used in traffic stops without probable cause. (http://www.channelone.com/news/2005/01/25/ap_dogs/)
I strongly dislike being the chicken little type, but that scares me for 3 reasons.
1. Most money has traces of drugs on it, and at least one man has been tried because of dogs sensing this. If they've already got a grudge, oh look, we found drug traces on you!
2. I don't do drugs (except that one time...) but most of my friends are potheads, and just touching it can leave traces on your upholstery for a week. My friends can get you high just by breathing the same air.
3. Without probable cause. Need I say more?
I know the constitution doesn't grant us rights. We have to win those in court and sometimes it takes longer than it should, but damn.
Wait until it's you.
Quote from: HoshikoI wasn't sure where to put this, so I might as well drop it here.
SCOTUS rules that drug sniffing dogs can be used in traffic stops without probable cause. (http://www.channelone.com/news/2005/01/25/ap_dogs/)
I strongly dislike being the chicken little type, but that scares me for 3 reasons.
1. Most money has traces of drugs on it, and at least one man has been tried because of dogs sensing this. If they've already got a grudge, oh look, we found drug traces on you!
2. I don't do drugs (except that one time...) but most of my friends are potheads, and just touching it can leave traces on your upholstery for a week. My friends can get you high just by breathing the same air.
3. Without probable cause. Need I say more?
I know the constitution doesn't grant us rights. We have to win those in court and sometimes it takes longer than it should, but damn.
Wait until it's you.
Drug traces on money won't be enough to convict you of anything, and if they lead to them searching your car, and you have a brick of blow, then I have no sympathy for you anyway. Ditto with trace amounts of pot resin on the seats. Unless they find a roach or some other tangible evidence, the dog smelling it isn't enough. My suggestion is to not let people who smoke pot get into your car.
the problem is that according to the wording of the ruling, they not only don't need probably cause to have drug dogs search your car, but they don't even need to have pulled you over. you could be inside McD's eating a burger and they could just take the dogs around the parking lot sniffing everyone's trunk...it musta taken some serious chutzpah to somehow make this jibe with the whole "unreasonable search and seizure" part of the constitution...
8)
Quote from: GOATit musta taken some serious chutzpah to somehow make this jibe with the whole "unreasonable search and seizure" part of the constitution...
8)
You have a constitution? I thought they were outlawed in America by the 80s?
I woke up this morning with last night's dream still heavy on my mind and the first thread I read was this one. :shock:
Last night I dreamed my baby and I were on a ruined ship that had run aground in the middle of a clear, shallow river. The sails were tattered and there were holes in the deck. The railings were broken and the ship had run onto a sandbar because it was rudderless. On one side of the river there were houses and stores.....it looked just like modern America. On the other side the banks were steep and there were cliffs with cave dwellers and bizarre looking animals.
Several of the other people on the ship walked ashore and went to one side of the river or the other. I decided there was danger on both sides and chose to help build a raft on which to float down the river, instead. As we boarded the raft, I looked down and saw a toe in the water. Just a toe all by itself. A couple of feet away from it was an entire skeleton and I realized he entire riverbed was littered with the remains of those who had gone before. We were floating on a river of bones.
We floated past fighting on both sides of the river. I saw tanks shooting into apartment buildings, saw cars and trucks burning, heard people screaming. The cave dwellers were no better off......they were mauled and eaten by ferocious animals or else they killed each other with sticks. Finally, we came to the end of the river. My brother's wife, Joan, was waiting for us as we came ashore. She welcomed us and took my baby and I into her home.
Joan was crying and kept remarking on what a shame it was that my pretty little girl was going to grow up to be cannon fodder. It seems that a new draft law had just come into effect. All children were to be registered with the draft board by the time they were 18 months old. Summers were to be spent in government run camps, and all PE teachers were to be replaced with drill sergeants. It was the Hitler youth programs all over again.
It's coming kiddies, because this dream had the quality I recognize as a precognitive dream.
We've run aground on a river of bones and I have to get my daughter out of the USA asap.
Quote from: SssBella, Oracle of DoomI woke up this morning with last night's dream still heavy on my mind and the first thread I read was this one. :shock:
Last night I dreamed my baby and I were on a ruined ship that had run aground in the middle of a clear, shallow river. The sails were tattered and there were holes in the deck. The railings were broken and the ship had run onto a sandbar because it was rudderless. On one side of the river there were houses and stores.....it looked just like modern America. On the other side the banks were steep and there were cliffs with cave dwellers and bizarre looking animals.
Several of the other people on the ship walked ashore and went to one side of the river or the other. I decided there was danger on both sides and chose to help build a raft on which to float down the river, instead. As we boarded the raft, I looked down and saw a toe in the water. Just a toe all by itself. A couple of feet away from it was an entire skeleton and I realized he entire riverbed was littered with the remains of those who had gone before. We were floating on a river of bones.
We floated past fighting on both sides of the river. I saw tanks shooting into apartment buildings, saw cars and trucks burning, heard people screaming. The cave dwellers were no better off......they were mauled and eaten by ferocious animals or else they killed each other with sticks. Finally, we came to the end of the river. My brother's wife, Joan, was waiting for us as we came ashore. She welcomed us and took my baby and I into her home.
Joan was crying and kept remarking on what a shame it was that my pretty little girl was going to grow up to be cannon fodder. It seems that a new draft law had just come into effect. All children were to be registered with the draft board by the time they were 18 months old. Summers were to be spent in government run camps, and all PE teachers were to be replaced with drill sergeants. It was the Hitler youth programs all over again.
It's coming kiddies, because this dream had the quality I recognize as a precognitive dream.
We've run aground on a river of bones and I have to get my daughter out of the USA asap.
:lol: I'm so glad I bought the extra-strength tinfoil last week.
Quote from: HoshikoI know the constitution doesn't grant us rights. We have to win those in court and sometimes it takes longer than it should, but damn.
The constitution doesn't GRANT rights...it LISTS the rights SIEZED, and then ASSUMED, after the revolution.
Rights cannot be "given" or "granted". They are TAKEN, and then assumed.
Problem is, America stopped assuming. Republics only last as long as the citizenry cares enough to demand those republics.
Quote from: ScytanoQuote from: SssBella, Oracle of DoomI woke up this morning with last night's dream still heavy on my mind and the first thread I read was this one. :shock:
Last night I dreamed my baby and I were on a ruined ship that had run aground in the middle of a clear, shallow river. The sails were tattered and there were holes in the deck. The railings were broken and the ship had run onto a sandbar because it was rudderless. On one side of the river there were houses and stores.....it looked just like modern America. On the other side the banks were steep and there were cliffs with cave dwellers and bizarre looking animals.
Several of the other people on the ship walked ashore and went to one side of the river or the other. I decided there was danger on both sides and chose to help build a raft on which to float down the river, instead. As we boarded the raft, I looked down and saw a toe in the water. Just a toe all by itself. A couple of feet away from it was an entire skeleton and I realized he entire riverbed was littered with the remains of those who had gone before. We were floating on a river of bones.
We floated past fighting on both sides of the river. I saw tanks shooting into apartment buildings, saw cars and trucks burning, heard people screaming. The cave dwellers were no better off......they were mauled and eaten by ferocious animals or else they killed each other with sticks. Finally, we came to the end of the river. My brother's wife, Joan, was waiting for us as we came ashore. She welcomed us and took my baby and I into her home.
Joan was crying and kept remarking on what a shame it was that my pretty little girl was going to grow up to be cannon fodder. It seems that a new draft law had just come into effect. All children were to be registered with the draft board by the time they were 18 months old. Summers were to be spent in government run camps, and all PE teachers were to be replaced with drill sergeants. It was the Hitler youth programs all over again.
It's coming kiddies, because this dream had the quality I recognize as a precognitive dream.
We've run aground on a river of bones and I have to get my daughter out of the USA asap.
:lol: I'm so glad I bought the extra-strength tinfoil last week.
You're joking, right? Bella's dream was the BEST possible outcome of the current trends in the USA.
The truth is sure to be far, far worse.
Quote from: ScytanoQuote from: HoshikoI wasn't sure where to put this, so I might as well drop it here.
SCOTUS rules that drug sniffing dogs can be used in traffic stops without probable cause. (http://www.channelone.com/news/2005/01/25/ap_dogs/)
I strongly dislike being the chicken little type, but that scares me for 3 reasons.
1. Most money has traces of drugs on it, and at least one man has been tried because of dogs sensing this. If they've already got a grudge, oh look, we found drug traces on you!
2. I don't do drugs (except that one time...) but most of my friends are potheads, and just touching it can leave traces on your upholstery for a week. My friends can get you high just by breathing the same air.
3. Without probable cause. Need I say more?
I know the constitution doesn't grant us rights. We have to win those in court and sometimes it takes longer than it should, but damn.
Wait until it's you.
Drug traces on money won't be enough to convict you of anything, and if they lead to them searching your car, and you have a brick of blow, then I have no sympathy for you anyway. Ditto with trace amounts of pot resin on the seats. Unless they find a roach or some other tangible evidence, the dog smelling it isn't enough. My suggestion is to not let people who smoke pot get into your car.
What part of:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized....Are you having problems with?
QuoteThe 6-2 opinion, written by Justice John Paul Stevens, stipulates police dogs may sniff only the outside of a car after a motorist is lawfully stopped for a traffic violation, such as speeding or failing to stop at a stop sign.
Quote from: The Good Reverend RogerQuote from: ScytanoQuote from: HoshikoI wasn't sure where to put this, so I might as well drop it here.
SCOTUS rules that drug sniffing dogs can be used in traffic stops without probable cause. (http://www.channelone.com/news/2005/01/25/ap_dogs/)
I strongly dislike being the chicken little type, but that scares me for 3 reasons.
1. Most money has traces of drugs on it, and at least one man has been tried because of dogs sensing this. If they've already got a grudge, oh look, we found drug traces on you!
2. I don't do drugs (except that one time...) but most of my friends are potheads, and just touching it can leave traces on your upholstery for a week. My friends can get you high just by breathing the same air.
3. Without probable cause. Need I say more?
I know the constitution doesn't grant us rights. We have to win those in court and sometimes it takes longer than it should, but damn.
Wait until it's you.
Drug traces on money won't be enough to convict you of anything, and if they lead to them searching your car, and you have a brick of blow, then I have no sympathy for you anyway. Ditto with trace amounts of pot resin on the seats. Unless they find a roach or some other tangible evidence, the dog smelling it isn't enough. My suggestion is to not let people who smoke pot get into your car.
What part of:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
...Are you having problems with?
Cars don't counts as effects or anything else. They can search your car if they pull you over. If they decide they don't like the way you look(we beat this to death earlier, so I'll leave it alone here)they can search your car. That's the way it's been for a while. A lot of criminals get caught, not because of the crime they commited, but, because they were speeding, or have a broken tail light, or forgot to use their turn signal. I am not sure how this would work and I don't have time to read this today. The only probable cause they needed before was any flimsy excuse to pull you over. And keep in mind, even if you don't do drugs, if they decide to search your car, what else are they going to find? Are you taking leftover booze home from a party? Open alcohol. Under 21? Add minor in posession. Got a gun or kinfe in your vehicle improperly? Concealed weapons charge. Carry tools that could be used to break into a house? You better have a good explanation, Burglar, I mean...Buster. Care to add anything to the list? Rog? Anyone?
Quote from: eldora_avalon
Cars don't counts as effects or anything else. They can search your car if they pull you over. If they decide they don't like the way you look(we beat this to death earlier, so I'll leave it alone here)they can search your car. That's the way it's been for a while. A lot of criminals get caught, not because of the crime they commited, but, because they were speeding, or have a broken tail light, or forgot to use their turn signal. I am not sure how this would work and I don't have time to read this today. The only probable cause they needed before was any flimsy excuse to pull you over. And keep in mind, even if you don't do drugs, if they decide to search your car, what else are they going to find? Are you taking leftover booze home from a party? Open alcohol. Under 21? Add minor in posession. Got a gun or kinfe in your vehicle improperly? Concealed weapons charge. Carry tools that could be used to break into a house? You better have a good explanation, Burglar, I mean...Buster. Care to add anything to the list? Rog? Anyone?
Dont forget you may fit a "gang related profile" also. :roll:
Quote from: Scribe
Dont forget you may fit a "gang related profile" also. :roll:
Thanks, I forgot about the profiles. After the 9/11 attacks, they did some polls and found that blacks were in favor of racial profiling of Arab Americans. Oops. Everyone seems to think it's OK to treat those people badly, but it's not OK treat US badly. I'm sorry, but it is not OK to treat any one badly. It won't be long before we will all fit some kind of profile making it possible for any one to get hassled based on that.
Well, you do fit the criminal profile of being a person. Only people commit crimes, after all.
Quote from: eldora_avalon
Cars don't counts as effects or anything else. They can search your car if they pull you over.
1. 50 years of case law disagree.
2. Certain traffic stops can lead to probable cause. Nothing smelly about that.
Quote from: SssBella, Oracle of DoomI woke up this morning with last night's dream still heavy on my mind and the first thread I read was this one. :shock:
Last night I dreamed my baby and I were on a ruined ship that had run aground in the middle of a clear, shallow river. The sails were tattered and there were holes in the deck. The railings were broken and the ship had run onto a sandbar because it was rudderless. On one side of the river there were houses and stores.....it looked just like modern America. On the other side the banks were steep and there were cliffs with cave dwellers and bizarre looking animals.
Several of the other people on the ship walked ashore and went to one side of the river or the other. I decided there was danger on both sides and chose to help build a raft on which to float down the river, instead. As we boarded the raft, I looked down and saw a toe in the water. Just a toe all by itself. A couple of feet away from it was an entire skeleton and I realized he entire riverbed was littered with the remains of those who had gone before. We were floating on a river of bones.
We floated past fighting on both sides of the river. I saw tanks shooting into apartment buildings, saw cars and trucks burning, heard people screaming. The cave dwellers were no better off......they were mauled and eaten by ferocious animals or else they killed each other with sticks. Finally, we came to the end of the river. My brother's wife, Joan, was waiting for us as we came ashore. She welcomed us and took my baby and I into her home.
Joan was crying and kept remarking on what a shame it was that my pretty little girl was going to grow up to be cannon fodder. It seems that a new draft law had just come into effect. All children were to be registered with the draft board by the time they were 18 months old. Summers were to be spent in government run camps, and all PE teachers were to be replaced with drill sergeants. It was the Hitler youth programs all over again.
It's coming kiddies, because this dream had the quality I recognize as a precognitive dream.
We've run aground on a river of bones and I have to get my daughter out of the USA asap.
Dreams can be frightening, but remember, these things work in waves. The fact that we've now absorbed some of your dream makes it less likely to happen.
Quote from: ScytanoQuoteThe 6-2 opinion, written by Justice John Paul Stevens, stipulates police dogs may sniff only the outside of a car after a motorist is lawfully stopped for a traffic violation, such as speeding or failing to stop at a stop sign.
How does speeding give probable cause for a drug search?
Quote from: YahtometQuote from: SssBella, Oracle of DoomI woke up this morning with last night's dream still heavy on my mind and the first thread I read was this one. :shock:
Last night I dreamed my baby and I were on a ruined ship that had run aground in the middle of a clear, shallow river. The sails were tattered and there were holes in the deck. The railings were broken and the ship had run onto a sandbar because it was rudderless. On one side of the river there were houses and stores.....it looked just like modern America. On the other side the banks were steep and there were cliffs with cave dwellers and bizarre looking animals.
Several of the other people on the ship walked ashore and went to one side of the river or the other. I decided there was danger on both sides and chose to help build a raft on which to float down the river, instead. As we boarded the raft, I looked down and saw a toe in the water. Just a toe all by itself. A couple of feet away from it was an entire skeleton and I realized he entire riverbed was littered with the remains of those who had gone before. We were floating on a river of bones.
We floated past fighting on both sides of the river. I saw tanks shooting into apartment buildings, saw cars and trucks burning, heard people screaming. The cave dwellers were no better off......they were mauled and eaten by ferocious animals or else they killed each other with sticks. Finally, we came to the end of the river. My brother's wife, Joan, was waiting for us as we came ashore. She welcomed us and took my baby and I into her home.
Joan was crying and kept remarking on what a shame it was that my pretty little girl was going to grow up to be cannon fodder. It seems that a new draft law had just come into effect. All children were to be registered with the draft board by the time they were 18 months old. Summers were to be spent in government run camps, and all PE teachers were to be replaced with drill sergeants. It was the Hitler youth programs all over again.
It's coming kiddies, because this dream had the quality I recognize as a precognitive dream.
We've run aground on a river of bones and I have to get my daughter out of the USA asap.
Dreams can be frightening, but remember, these things work in waves. The fact that we've now absorbed some of your dream makes it less likely to happen.
HUH? WTF?
What kind of new-agey crap is that?
Next we'll hear about "visualization".
Heh. That's the best part of the doublethink.
Quote from: YahtometHeh. That's the best part of the doublethink.
UNNNNNNNNNNNNGH?
Quote from: The Good Reverend RogerQuote from: eldora_avalon
Cars don't counts as effects or anything else. They can search your car if they pull you over.
1. 50 years of case law disagree.
2. Certain traffic stops can lead to probable cause. Nothing smelly about that.
So let's say I get pulled over because my brake light burned out. Let's further say the cop wants to search my car for no good reason and I say no. Is he going to just let me go? What are my legal rights in a situation like that and have they changed. This is good information for us all to have.
Quote from: eldora_avalonQuote from: The Good Reverend RogerQuote from: eldora_avalon
Cars don't counts as effects or anything else. They can search your car if they pull you over.
1. 50 years of case law disagree.
2. Certain traffic stops can lead to probable cause. Nothing smelly about that.
So let's say I get pulled over because my brake light burned out. Let's further say the cop wants to search my car for no good reason and I say no. Is he going to just let me go?
Yes. A burned out tail light is NOT probable cause. Any arrest made from it will be tossed, and he'll be disciplined.
Unless you live in LA or Cook county, IL, in which case you are FUXORED!!111
Quote from: The Good Reverend RogerQuote from: eldora_avalonQuote from: The Good Reverend RogerQuote from: eldora_avalon
Cars don't counts as effects or anything else. They can search your car if they pull you over.
1. 50 years of case law disagree.
2. Certain traffic stops can lead to probable cause. Nothing smelly about that.
So let's say I get pulled over because my brake light burned out. Let's further say the cop wants to search my car for no good reason and I say no. Is he going to just let me go?
Yes. A burned out tail light is NOT probable cause. Any arrest made from it will be tossed, and he'll be disciplined.
Unless you live in LA or Cook county, IL, in which case you are FUXORED!!111
I think I am pretty much fuxorz in Flint, too. Except that the Flint Area Narcotics Group are pretty much idiots. A lot of their stuff gets trown out anyway. Or reduced from felonies to misdemeanors. Plus, it is a big hassle either way. Even if you get it thrown out, you still waste a lot of time and money. Trust me, I have seen it. I'll rant about that another time. My headache's gone, how about the boot story :wink:
Quote from: eldora_avalonQuote from: The Good Reverend RogerQuote from: eldora_avalonQuote from: The Good Reverend RogerQuote from: eldora_avalon
Cars don't counts as effects or anything else. They can search your car if they pull you over.
1. 50 years of case law disagree.
2. Certain traffic stops can lead to probable cause. Nothing smelly about that.
So let's say I get pulled over because my brake light burned out. Let's further say the cop wants to search my car for no good reason and I say no. Is he going to just let me go?
Yes. A burned out tail light is NOT probable cause. Any arrest made from it will be tossed, and he'll be disciplined.
Unless you live in LA or Cook county, IL, in which case you are FUXORED!!111
I think I am pretty much fuxorz in Flint, too. Except that the Flint Area Narcotics Group are pretty much idiots. A lot of their stuff gets trown out anyway. Or reduced from felonies to misdemeanors. Plus, it is a big hassle either way. Even if you get it thrown out, you still waste a lot of time and money. Trust me, I have seen it. I'll rant about that another time. My headache's gone, how about the boot story :wink:
Nope. Turd/Goat is about, and stories like this are not for neocon eyes.
Far too juicy for that.
Quote from: Scytano
Drug traces on money won't be enough to convict you of anything, and if they lead to them searching your car, and you have a brick of blow, then I have no sympathy for you anyway. Ditto with trace amounts of pot resin on the seats. Unless they find a roach or some other tangible evidence, the dog smelling it isn't enough. My suggestion is to not let people who smoke pot get into your car.
I know they can't convict with traces, but that hasn't stopped them from trying someone based on that evidence before.
Look, I don't want to spend time in jail because dogs smelled something negligable in my car. It's not about whether or not I have a brick of blow, it's about the rights we have set in place so that cops can't abuse the system.
What if I did have a brick of coke in my trunk? The dogs smell it, and they search. I have the right to deny a search if I'm not breaking the law and they have no probable cause. But if they're using dogs, that right is gone. I can no longer say no to a search.
Quote from: GOATthe problem is that according to the wording of the ruling, they not only don't need probably cause to have drug dogs search your car, but they don't even need to have pulled you over. you could be inside McD's eating a burger and they could just take the dogs around the parking lot sniffing everyone's trunk...it musta taken some serious chutzpah to somehow make this jibe with the whole "unreasonable search and seizure" part of the constitution...
8)
Exactly. With this ruling, there's no end in site. We already have dogs and chemical detectors and such in airports because there's no reasonable expectation of privacy there. But there
is a resonable expectation of privacy if you're walking down the street, or in your car. They should not be allowed to use dogs whenever they like.
Quote from: eldora_avalonCars don't counts as effects or anything else. They can search your car if they pull you over. If they decide they don't like the way you look(we beat this to death earlier, so I'll leave it alone here)they can search your car. That's the way it's been for a while. A lot of criminals get caught, not because of the crime they commited, but, because they were speeding, or have a broken tail light, or forgot to use their turn signal.
That's not true. They need your permission to search your car, even if you were speeding or have a broken taillight. They can be rough about getting that permission, but unless they get it nothing they find is admissable in court. Criminals get caught because they're stupid and give that permission even though they have something to hide.
The only exception is if they have probable cause, i.e. they smell drugs on you or in your car, they can see a bag of weed in your open glovebox, etc.
And I see that Roger's already addressed that.
Bella, your dream is a vision of America that scares me every day. But as long as there are people to fight those turn of events, I think I'll stick it out and help.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Nope. Turd/Goat is about, and stories like this are not for neocon eyes.
Far too juicy for that.
I'm a
neocon?
whiskey tango foxtrot, yo?
:lol:
Quote from: SssBella, Oracle of DoomI woke up this morning with last night's dream still heavy on my mind ... It's coming kiddies, because this dream had the quality I recognize as a precognitive dream.
We've run aground on a river of bones and I have to get my daughter out of the USA asap.
Great. I just had a great night and now this.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
What part of:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
...Are you having problems with?
The part that Alberto Gonzales is responsible for.
Quote from: GOATQuote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Nope. Turd/Goat is about, and stories like this are not for neocon eyes.
Far too juicy for that.
I'm a neocon?
whiskey tango foxtrot, yo?
:lol:
Don't look at me like that. You outted yourself.
Quote from: gnimbleyQuote from: SssBella, Oracle of DoomI woke up this morning with last night's dream still heavy on my mind ... It's coming kiddies, because this dream had the quality I recognize as a precognitive dream.
We've run aground on a river of bones and I have to get my daughter out of the USA asap.
Great. I just had a great night and now this.
I've been having a dream like that for years now. And it is too good and way too repetitive for me to just shrug off.
Quote from: SssBella, Oracle of DoomI woke up this morning with last night's dream still heavy on my mind and the first thread I read was this one. :shock:
--->snip<-----
We've run aground on a river of bones and I have to get my daughter out of the USA asap.
The dreams I have are more about me being in the middle of it all. Like we have been nuked and I am trying to find my son and husband and get us all to safety. Just all chaos, and not the good fun kind. I haven't had it in a while. My mornings are so hectic that I often lose my dreams as soon as I wake up. This is spooky. And I get the same feeling from reading about your dream as I do when I have mine that are similar. I can't think that far ahead, but Canada keeps looking better every day. :cry:
It's been a couple of years since I had dreams like that...it's just me and a handful of my friends, we've migrated to the coast of some body of water because that's where it's still somewhat safe and habitable, and yet we know it's just a matter of time before one more drops and we're gone too.
HERE'S A GOOD FUCKING QUESTION:
IF ALL THE UGLY AMERICANS RUN AWAY TO CANADA, HOW LONG DO YOU THINK IT WILL TAKE BEFORE CANADA IS JUST AS FUCKED AS AMERICA?
Just as long as you all stay out of Sweden, we cal still be cool...it's just food for thought...
8)
So long as no-one goes to Belize Im OK.
hawt chix0rz welcome eh.
i heard in sweden everyone has a submachinegun in their kitchen cupboard.
I thought that was Switzerland?
of course it's sweden, why do you think I'm moving there?
8)
Quote from: ScribeI thought that was Switzerland?
oh shit. i spose so. swiss, sweden, switzerland. crazy european country names, all so confusing! :wink:
Who cares, they all have snow and guns in large amounts! And Switzerland has chocolate too, I suppose.
yes, but only Sweden has the Swedish Bikini Team!
8)
No one's going anywhere. We are trapped in like the dissendent rats we are.
Why go to Europe and Canada, when they have lots of problems too, and are less powerful and influential to boot?
Quote from: Irreverend Hugh, KSCNo one's going anywhere. We are trapped in like the dissendent rats we are.
QuoteDespite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Smashing Pumkins, I think. Plus Scytano finally made a decent point. A lot of other countries are seriously fucked up. They haven't taken our guns away, yet. The only good thing I can think of off the top of my head that the Bush admin has done. I can still walk around the corner and buy a gun and some ammo.(http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/armed/2ar15.gif)
Makes preparing for a shooting spree at the local church really convenient, too.
Quote from: eldora_avalonQuote from: Irreverend Hugh, KSCNo one's going anywhere. We are trapped in like the dissendent rats we are.
QuoteDespite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage
Smashing Pumkins, I think. Plus Scytano finally made a decent point. A lot of other countries are seriously fucked up. They haven't taken our guns away, yet. The only good thing I can think of off the top of my head that the Bush admin has done. I can still walk around the corner and buy a gun and some ammo.(http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/armed/2ar15.gif)
Hence Swizerland. If I were a citizen there, it'd be law that I have to have a gun. And the laws are even more relaxed then the US in some areas. Of course, the downside is that it is Switzerland. But then again, no-one wants to invade, because even evil dictators and corrupt CEOs have to have a safe place to store the cash. :D
Quote from: Scribe
Hence Swizerland. If I were a citizen there, it'd be law that I have to have a gun. And the laws are even more relaxed then the US in some areas. Of course, the downside is that it is Switzerland. But then again, no-one wants to invade, because even evil dictators and corrupt CEOs have to have a safe place to store the cash. :D
Are you serious? They have tried that in some US cities and it is a better deterence than gun control. If you know someone else has a gun, you are less likely to try to take something from them. Even if it is an 80 year old woman and you are trying to get her social security check.
Quote from: eldora_avalonQuote from: Scribe
Hence Swizerland. If I were a citizen there, it'd be law that I have to have a gun. And the laws are even more relaxed then the US in some areas. Of course, the downside is that it is Switzerland. But then again, no-one wants to invade, because even evil dictators and corrupt CEOs have to have a safe place to store the cash. :D
Are you serious? They have tried that in some US cities and it is a better deterence than gun control. If you know someone else has a gun, you are less likely to try to take something from them. Even if it is an 80 year old woman and you are trying to get her social security check.
Yup, because Switzerland has conscription still. That was one of the reasons Hitler didnt invade the place, because every Swiss has a gun and is well trained to use it. For example, the Israeli Army is based on the Swiss model, I think. Im much more American when it comes to matters like gun control. Its also why all the banks are there, because Switzerland hasnt been invaded in 500 odd years and is traditionally neutral. And has nice chocolate (although not as good as Belgium. :D )
Im not certain as to the conceal and carry laws there, but I presume given the low crime rate it is a possibilty.
Sorry, Rog, I'll have to opt for killing you this time. :)
The dog thing seems to be to be only slightly worse than the current model:
Cop (to random person on the street): Mind if I search your bag?
Citizen: I don't want you to search my bag.
Cop: Then we will detain you until we can get a warrant to search your bag.
Cop takes Citizen to the precinct, where s/he is placed in custody until the DA can find a judge who is either lazy, or suspicious enough about why an "innocent citizen" would refuse to have their bag searched.
Sure, it may get thrown out of court, but in the meantime, get familiar with Kafka.
Quote from: ScytanoWhy go to Europe and Canada, when they have lots of problems too, and are less powerful and influential to boot?
Less serious problems.
And who gives a fuck about power and influence?
Do you like Rambo movies, dude?
Quote from: DJRubberduckySorry, Rog, I'll have to opt for killing you this time. :)
Well, it's about fucking time.
Quote from: The Good Reverend RogerQuote from: DJRubberduckySorry, Rog, I'll have to opt for killing you this time. :)
Well, it's about fucking time.
Too late, DJ.
He's already one of my zombies.
Quote from: SssBella, Oracle of DoomQuote from: The Good Reverend RogerQuote from: DJRubberduckySorry, Rog, I'll have to opt for killing you this time. :)
Well, it's about fucking time.
Too late, DJ.
He's already one of my zombies.
I am proud to be a Zombie For Bella(tm).
And vice versa, Rog.
YEah...and then there's
so what?
Boobies?
Breast cancer?
*stabs next poster*
A little.
But this time without the bar-b-q sauce.