TLDR; Help me convince my friends to vote for Biden.
Context: I like Sen. Sander' policies. I hate Joe Biden. I hate Orange Hitler probably more than anything. I tend to vote very ideologically, but am smart enough to know when to when to switch strategies and be more pragmatic. The people I know that are Sanders supporters have the most stellar intentions and hold very strong progressive values, but feel slighted and are understandably impatient for some major changes, which they, understandably, do not expect from a Biden presidency.
No, insulting their intelligence and lumping them all in as "Bernie Bros" is not effective and will have counterproductive outcomes.
I intend on messaging my friends individually to make a case. I would like to make that case as strongly as possible. I need to make this as appealing to them as possible. I hate doing this, I hate voting and convincing others to vote in a manner that defies their core values, but it must be done.
I would like all of your help to construct the most foolproof (lol, I know) argument possible, using ethos and pathos where logos won't do.
Here's the problem I've found trying to make this argument:
Either these people have nothing to lose, or they are True Believers.
Sounds dismissive?
Try saying: hey, maybe we could have four years of queer people not dying miserable, preventable deaths due to medical bigotry. Maybe we could not have the Supreme Court even more stacked against us for the rest of our lifetimes.
Maybe saving people is the right move.
If those arguments don't work, it would take Holy Writ, and they might even ignore that. If they've let their convictions take on more value than human lives, then the certain betrayal of their convictions outweighs a reduction in suffering. That condition is one that I have never been able to bring someone back from, least of all in a message that works on broad swaths of people.
If I manage to vote, I'll vote Biden. I'll hold my nose and do the deed despite feeling outraged and horrified that the good choice is that fucking bad.
I'll do it because I don't want to die, and I have so many friends I don't want to die either. And in the end, that is what four more years of Trump will do, when you can't even get necessary medical treatment because you might be queer.
Quote from: altered on April 25, 2020, 07:20:09 AM
Here's the problem I've found trying to make this argument:
Either these people have nothing to lose, or they are True Believers.
Sounds dismissive?
Try saying: hey, maybe we could have four years of queer people not dying miserable, preventable deaths due to medical bigotry. Maybe we could not have the Supreme Court even more stacked against us for the rest of our lifetimes.
Maybe saving people is the right move.
If those arguments don't work, it would take Holy Writ, and they might even ignore that. If they've let their convictions take on more value than human lives, then the certain betrayal of their convictions outweighs a reduction in suffering. That condition is one that I have never been able to bring someone back from, least of all in a message that works on broad swaths of people.
If I manage to vote, I'll vote Biden. I'll hold my nose and do the deed despite feeling outraged and horrified that the good choice is that fucking bad.
I'll do it because I don't want to die, and I have so many friends I don't want to die either. And in the end, that is what four more years of Trump will do, when you can't even get necessary medical treatment because you might be queer.
I understand your point but I do think it's a bit dismissive and I'm not totally sure that throwing your hands up and declaring that they are "unreachable" is the best strategy at this point. Like it or not, we kinda need them.
I think very few Berners are "True Believers" and I think it's more likely that they feel hopeless and/or helpless rather than that they feel that they have "nothing to lose." I think that they feel like they have EVERYTHING to lose and they do not see a path that prevents them, their friends, and their families from losing everything. All in all, Berners, at least the ones that I know ARE intelligent and compassionate people that just feel disenfranchised and hopeless.
Maybe if they can be presented with something that gives them a glimmer of hope they can be persuaded. Maybe frame the whole "voting Biden" thing as a small step towards something bigger? Maybe? I really don't know which is why I'm here.
Mind you, I don't even CARE at this point if I'm being TRUTHFUL to these people, as long as I can influence them to get Orange Hitler the fuck out.
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 25, 2020, 06:41:36 AM
TLDR; Help me convince my friends to vote for Biden.
Context: I like Sen. Sander' policies. I hate Joe Biden. I hate Orange Hitler probably more than anything. I tend to vote very ideologically, but am smart enough to know when to when to switch strategies and be more pragmatic. The people I know that are Sanders supporters have the most stellar intentions and hold very strong progressive values, but feel slighted and are understandably impatient for some major changes, which they, understandably, do not expect from a Biden presidency.
No, insulting their intelligence and lumping them all in as "Bernie Bros" is not effective and will have counterproductive outcomes.
I intend on messaging my friends individually to make a case. I would like to make that case as strongly as possible. I need to make this as appealing to them as possible. I hate doing this, I hate voting and convincing others to vote in a manner that defies their core values, but it must be done.
I would like all of your help to construct the most foolproof (lol, I know) argument possible, using ethos and pathos where logos won't do.
Look, this is really simple.
If after 4 years of Trump being president, anyone says that they won't take the best chance to remove him, then that person never cared about society in the first place, and their posturing is nothing but a grotesque validation wank.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 25, 2020, 04:10:36 PM
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 25, 2020, 06:41:36 AM
TLDR; Help me convince my friends to vote for Biden.
Context: I like Sen. Sander' policies. I hate Joe Biden. I hate Orange Hitler probably more than anything. I tend to vote very ideologically, but am smart enough to know when to when to switch strategies and be more pragmatic. The people I know that are Sanders supporters have the most stellar intentions and hold very strong progressive values, but feel slighted and are understandably impatient for some major changes, which they, understandably, do not expect from a Biden presidency.
No, insulting their intelligence and lumping them all in as "Bernie Bros" is not effective and will have counterproductive outcomes.
I intend on messaging my friends individually to make a case. I would like to make that case as strongly as possible. I need to make this as appealing to them as possible. I hate doing this, I hate voting and convincing others to vote in a manner that defies their core values, but it must be done.
I would like all of your help to construct the most foolproof (lol, I know) argument possible, using ethos and pathos where logos won't do.
Look, this is really simple.
If after 4 years of Trump being president, anyone says that they won't take the best chance to remove him, then that person never cared about society in the first place, and their posturing is nothing but a grotesque validation wank.
Oh ok, so then I won't bother trying then. Thanks for your insight. Really glad I asked.
I feel ya Dimo, I supported Warren and Sanders and it seems like their whole platform just got flushed. But here's why I think we should vote for Biden anyway:
- The next president gets 2 supreme court picks. It could become a conservative majority, and if Trump picks young judges, it could be a conservative majority for 30 more years. On the chopping block are LGBTQ rights, Women's rights, Death Penalty, Separation of Church and State, and how all the new tech gets regulated
- Biden may not be progressive, but he also isn't regressive. He will roll back a lot of Trump's executive orders and has an opportunity to end things like the child separation policy, participation in the paris climate accord, all that shit
- Biden will actually attempt to maintain our alliances and relationships with other world leaders, continue participation in stuff like the World Health Org, etc. Trump is willing to sacrifice all of that for short term/russian goals.
like basically, even if you view this as a choice between a murderous dictator and a early-90s-style republican, it's still kind of an easy choice IMO. Like if Bush were running against Trump, you'd prefer Bush, right?
Pretty much all democratic voters under age 60 are not getting their first choice. But we need to remember that we shouldn't be in anybody's personality cult. Progressivism was never about
Bernie, he's just the face. Progressives can accomplish a lot more under Biden than under Trump.
also, if you are in the Sanders Camp, then maybe heed his advice:
QuoteSanders said his supporters have a simple choice now that Biden has emerged as the presumptive nominee: "Do we be as active as we can in electing Joe Biden and doing everything we can to move Joe and his campaign in a more progressive direction? Or do we choose to sit it out and allow the most dangerous president in modern American history to get reelected?"
He continued: "I believe that it's irresponsible for anybody to say, 'Well, I disagree with Joe Biden -- I disagree with Joe Biden! -- and therefore I'm not going to be involved.'"
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/04/14/bernie-sanders-says-opposing-joe-biden-irresponsible/2993775001/
For what it's worth, the Biden platform has incorporated a few token progressive elements. They're not exactly what we want, but it's better than nothing, right?
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 25, 2020, 06:41:36 AM
Help me convince my friends to vote for Biden.
It's not your job to convince them to vote for Biden. It's Biden's job to convince them to vote for Biden.
Right now, Biden
needs to be afraid of losing. There are still seven months between now and the election that he has to start speaking the language of people who are interested in more than just a return to "normalcy" - the same normalcy that got us into this cave of blunders in the first place. The same normalcy that a GOP-led senate will delightfully continue to face-fuck (since they don't have to make progress in order to win because stagnation is part of their long game; as long as they're obstructing, they're as happy as a Cuban in cocaine). Biden's projected strategy is to open negotiations by asking for less than what everyone wants. There's still time to change that plan, but the only way he'll even think about pushing harder is if he's scared shitless that the powers behind him have kept us all so blitheringly, drooling stupid for so long that we might just be dumb enough to trigger the end of the Mexican standoff.
Speaking of negotiations, everyone already fucking blew it when they started out by saying they'd vote for literally anyone other than Trump. Way to show your hand at cards, you poor, deluded weasels. When you tell the DNC that you'll take anything they give you, that's exactly what you get.
Don't give me any shit about Biden getting more votes, either. People en masse are ridiculously easy to socially engineer, not to mention all the other circumstances around primaries that contribute towards him winding up as the default. When Sanders raises the amounts of money he did from non-corporate donors and fills out stadiums country-wide but Biden shows up and just
Matt-Damons himself into the front, you know there's something seriously fucked about the whole process.
Stop trying to concede everything you want just because you're afraid of another four years of Orange Man or conservative judges packed dick-to-asshole in courts across the country. Nothing about either of those things is in any way permanent. Will they retard progress? Sure. Won't everything?
Right now, you're walking up to a prostitute and asking her if you can take her out to dinner. You're already paying for the sex; maybe you should start making her prove that she's the right whore for you.
You know what is permanent?
Death.
I'm homeless and queer.
Before Trump exits office, no matter when he actually does, it will be legal to deny me medical care because I am queer. Look it up. This is not an exaggeration.
Homelessness guarantees I have more health problems than the average population. Not just statistically, with absolute certainty. Homeless people get health problems, period. This is one of the few cases where socioeconomic status correlates to such an extent with health issues that you can throw away all the statistical weasel words and just call it what it is.
If one of those health problems explodes, and I have no doubt it will, and the doctors say "oh, tranny freak" and decide I deserve to die, I'm gone forever. That is permanent and no one gets to take that back.
Trans people are homeless more often than any other segment of the population.
Other queer people have an elevated rate of homelessness too.
Saying "Biden isn't worth it and if we get four more years of Trump it's only temporary" is saying that queer people dying doesn't matter. At the very bare fucking minimum.
Yes, there are queer people who agree with you because their deaths are already set in stone and there is nothing left in marginal gains for them. They can afford to risk it all. They have nothing to lose.
I do. I can't afford that risk. I'm teetering on the precipice every fucking day. Four more years of Trump will kill me as surely as a bullet to the hind brain. This is in no way an exaggeration. And I'm not alone.
And as I said in my first post in this thread: if you don't think that matters, if you can't be swayed by that argument, there is no argument that can sway you and nothing that can change your mind.
Dimo, here is the experiment in action. You ask them: Does human life fucking matter? And you wait for their response. Remember the basic rules of rhetoric: "yes but" means no.
Do you think you can convince anyone to be on your side if they disagree with you on that level? If they don't believe saving lives and reducing suffering is worth having to compromise on their convictions?
Quote from: altered on April 25, 2020, 09:43:45 PM
If one of those health problems explodes, and I have no doubt it will, and the doctors say "oh, tranny freak" and decide I deserve to die, I'm gone forever.
If you ever find yourself in a time and place where doctors at a hospital say "oh, tranny freak" and decide you deserve to die, the world you live in has far bigger problems than electing Joe Biden can solve.
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 25, 2020, 08:02:40 AM
Quote from: altered on April 25, 2020, 07:20:09 AM
Here's the problem I've found trying to make this argument:
Either these people have nothing to lose, or they are True Believers.
Sounds dismissive?
Try saying: hey, maybe we could have four years of queer people not dying miserable, preventable deaths due to medical bigotry. Maybe we could not have the Supreme Court even more stacked against us for the rest of our lifetimes.
Maybe saving people is the right move.
If those arguments don't work, it would take Holy Writ, and they might even ignore that. If they've let their convictions take on more value than human lives, then the certain betrayal of their convictions outweighs a reduction in suffering. That condition is one that I have never been able to bring someone back from, least of all in a message that works on broad swaths of people.
If I manage to vote, I'll vote Biden. I'll hold my nose and do the deed despite feeling outraged and horrified that the good choice is that fucking bad.
I'll do it because I don't want to die, and I have so many friends I don't want to die either. And in the end, that is what four more years of Trump will do, when you can't even get necessary medical treatment because you might be queer.
I understand your point but I do think it's a bit dismissive and I'm not totally sure that throwing your hands up and declaring that they are "unreachable" is the best strategy at this point. Like it or not, we kinda need them.
I think very few Berners are "True Believers" and I think it's more likely that they feel hopeless and/or helpless rather than that they feel that they have "nothing to lose." I think that they feel like they have EVERYTHING to lose and they do not see a path that prevents them, their friends, and their families from losing everything. All in all, Berners, at least the ones that I know ARE intelligent and compassionate people that just feel disenfranchised and hopeless.
Maybe if they can be presented with something that gives them a glimmer of hope they can be persuaded. Maybe frame the whole "voting Biden" thing as a small step towards something bigger? Maybe? I really don't know which is why I'm here.
Mind you, I don't even CARE at this point if I'm being TRUTHFUL to these people, as long as I can influence them to get Orange Hitler the fuck out.
It's not a small step to something bigger. The conservative wing of the Democratic party led to the election of Trump. On the other hand it means life to a lot of folks, Altered clearly knows that personally but it will also make a huge difference to all the refugees who arrive after Biden stops the policy of separating families and putting them in internment camps. It will mean a slowdown in the dismantling of our environmental and labor protections.
The small step part is important, but it's not that voting Biden now will give us the chance to vote for someone better next time, if Biden wins then the real work, protests, strikes, mass movement, will all be much easier and folks will be less likely to be killed doing them. Voting is nowhere near enough, Biden isnt going to fix anything, but he's going to break less things than Trump and the government was never going to fix things, not even under Sanders. That's up to the people.
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 12:31:57 AM
Quote from: altered on April 25, 2020, 09:43:45 PM
If one of those health problems explodes, and I have no doubt it will, and the doctors say "oh, tranny freak" and decide I deserve to die, I'm gone forever.
If you ever find yourself in a time and place where doctors at a hospital say "oh, tranny freak" and decide you deserve to die, the world you live in has far bigger problems than electing Joe Biden can solve.
Fuck you.
Electing Joe Biden solves one massive problem.
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 12:31:57 AM
Quote from: altered on April 25, 2020, 09:43:45 PM
If one of those health problems explodes, and I have no doubt it will, and the doctors say "oh, tranny freak" and decide I deserve to die, I'm gone forever.
If you ever find yourself in a time and place where doctors at a hospital say "oh, tranny freak" and decide you deserve to die, the world you live in has far bigger problems than electing Joe Biden can solve.
Then you would prefer to have people die to prove a point than to help people live by compromising your convictions.
This makes you a monster.
Quote from: Cramulus on April 25, 2020, 05:40:13 PM
I feel ya Dimo, I supported Warren and Sanders and it seems like their whole platform just got flushed.
I supported Harris, then Warren, then Sanders, in that order. I certainly didn't count on sleepy Joe.
None of my candidates won.
I'm still voting against Trump. Because my feelings of butthurt do not exceed my hatred for every single thing Donald Trump stands for.
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 12:31:57 AM
Quote from: altered on April 25, 2020, 09:43:45 PM
If one of those health problems explodes, and I have no doubt it will, and the doctors say "oh, tranny freak" and decide I deserve to die, I'm gone forever.
If you ever find yourself in a time and place where doctors at a hospital say "oh, tranny freak" and decide you deserve to die, the world you live in has far bigger problems than electing Joe Biden can solve.
Getting rid of Trump's Nazi ass is a good start.
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 25, 2020, 08:29:23 PM
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 25, 2020, 06:41:36 AM
Help me convince my friends to vote for Biden.
It's not your job to convince them to vote for Biden. It's Biden's job to convince them to vote for Biden.
Right now, Biden needs to be afraid of losing. There are still seven months between now and the election that he has to start speaking the language of people who are interested in more than just a return to "normalcy" - the same normalcy that got us into this cave of blunders in the first place. The same normalcy that a GOP-led senate will delightfully continue to face-fuck (since they don't have to make progress in order to win because stagnation is part of their long game; as long as they're obstructing, they're as happy as a Cuban in cocaine). Biden's projected strategy is to open negotiations by asking for less than what everyone wants. There's still time to change that plan, but the only way he'll even think about pushing harder is if he's scared shitless that the powers behind him have kept us all so blitheringly, drooling stupid for so long that we might just be dumb enough to trigger the end of the Mexican standoff.
Speaking of negotiations, everyone already fucking blew it when they started out by saying they'd vote for literally anyone other than Trump. Way to show your hand at cards, you poor, deluded weasels. When you tell the DNC that you'll take anything they give you, that's exactly what you get.
Don't give me any shit about Biden getting more votes, either. People en masse are ridiculously easy to socially engineer, not to mention all the other circumstances around primaries that contribute towards him winding up as the default. When Sanders raises the amounts of money he did from non-corporate donors and fills out stadiums country-wide but Biden shows up and just Matt-Damons himself into the front, you know there's something seriously fucked about the whole process.
Stop trying to concede everything you want just because you're afraid of another four years of Orange Man or conservative judges packed dick-to-asshole in courts across the country. Nothing about either of those things is in any way permanent. Will they retard progress? Sure. Won't everything?
Right now, you're walking up to a prostitute and asking her if you can take her out to dinner. You're already paying for the sex; maybe you should start making her prove that she's the right whore for you.
You've been low key MAGA since you've been here. What, 3 years or so?
Your comments will be taken under advisement
1.
1 In my world, that means "go fuck yourself."
Quote from: Pergamos on April 26, 2020, 12:39:23 AM
Biden isnt going to fix anything, but he's going to break less things than Trump and the government was never going to fix things, not even under Sanders. That's up to the people.
The government IS the people.
Just not people like you and I.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:09:15 AM
You've been low key MAGA since you've been here.
You just don't know how to read someone who has opinions you don't understand without projecting your own issues onto them.
Quote from: altered on April 26, 2020, 01:35:17 AM
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 12:31:57 AM
Quote from: altered on April 25, 2020, 09:43:45 PM
If one of those health problems explodes, and I have no doubt it will, and the doctors say "oh, tranny freak" and decide I deserve to die, I'm gone forever.
If you ever find yourself in a time and place where doctors at a hospital say "oh, tranny freak" and decide you deserve to die, the world you live in has far bigger problems than electing Joe Biden can solve.
Then you would prefer to have people die to prove a point than to help people live by compromising your convictions.
This makes you a monster.
What the Fuck Mountain are you even talking about? Not a damn thing I said is anything close to this.
You missed my point entirely, which doesn't matter since I'm sure you don't give a shit what my point was.
And Cramulus wonders why I refrain from "participating".
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:29:57 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:09:15 AM
You've been low key MAGA since you've been here.
You just don't know how to read someone who has opinions you don't understand without projecting your own issues onto them.
Sounds like shoddy MAGA gaslighting and limp-dick grandstanding to me. I'm pretty sure Howl understands you perfectly, now. FUNNY thing is that he even spoke well of you a bit when I expressed what a fuckstick shitnozzle you were to him. You don't deserve the tacit acceptance you have had here. The only thing occasionally amusing about you is a stale comic that has in the past been amusing, but is ultimately just you being unable to let go of some memes used against you years ago.
Get fucked.
I mean that.
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on April 26, 2020, 03:38:00 AM
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:29:57 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:09:15 AM
You've been low key MAGA since you've been here.
You just don't know how to read someone who has opinions you don't understand without projecting your own issues onto them.
Sounds like shoddy MAGA gaslighting and limp-dick grandstanding to me. I'm pretty sure Howl understands you perfectly, now. FUNNY thing is that he even spoke well of you a bit when I expressed what a fuckstick shitnozzle you were to him. You don't deserve the tacit acceptance you have had here. The only thing occasionally amusing about you is a stale comic that has in the past been amusing, but is ultimately just you being unable to let go of some memes used against you years ago.
Get fucked.
I mean that.
Dude, shut up.
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:41:20 AM
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on April 26, 2020, 03:38:00 AM
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:29:57 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:09:15 AM
You've been low key MAGA since you've been here.
You just don't know how to read someone who has opinions you don't understand without projecting your own issues onto them.
Sounds like shoddy MAGA gaslighting and limp-dick grandstanding to me. I'm pretty sure Howl understands you perfectly, now. FUNNY thing is that he even spoke well of you a bit when I expressed what a fuckstick shitnozzle you were to him. You don't deserve the tacit acceptance you have had here. The only thing occasionally amusing about you is a stale comic that has in the past been amusing, but is ultimately just you being unable to let go of some memes used against you years ago.
Get fucked.
I mean that.
Dude, shut up.
You are SUCH a fast learner.
:butthurt2:
What is it exactly that any of you think I'm actually saying?
I'm not sure why I'm bothering to say anything at all. This place is and always has been like a massive immune response system where if anything seems politically strange to the hivemind, everyone loses their shit and descends in full force upon the offending intruder - even when that person is not saying what it is you seem to think that they're saying.
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:47:28 AM
What is it exactly that any of you think I'm actually saying?
I'm not sure why I'm bothering to say anything at all. This place is and always has been like a massive immune response system where if anything seems politically strange to the hivemind, everyone loses their shit and descends in full force upon the offending intruder - even when that person is not saying what it is you seem to think that they're saying.
Quickly Hard a-port! Divert! Divert damn your eyes! If this remains about what was said It's OVER. Quickly now lads!! Make this about how unfair the board is!! TURN! TURN YOU WHORE FROM HELL!!
:butthurt:
chode
(http://www.chinagreenelvis.com/art/comics/discordia/0209---Intellectually-Dishonest.png)
:lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
YES... reach for the familiar memes to establish a sense of control for yourself. It's a GOOD thing you aren't actually playing chess. I don't know who TOOK your control from you or when, I'm not that big of a dick that I would pry like that into you, but... it's definitely left you predictable. I won't pick at your traumas, but they are there and you can't actually control shit, least of all yourself.
It doesn't make us a hive mind just because we all think you are an asshole.
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:47:28 AM
What is it exactly that any of you think I'm actually saying?
I'm not sure why I'm bothering to say anything at all. This place is and always has been like a massive immune response system where if anything seems politically strange to the hivemind, everyone loses their shit and descends in full force upon the offending intruder - even when that person is not saying what it is you seem to think that they're saying.
I got what you were saying, even if the others don't. Yes if the normalisation of that kind of awful behaviour reaches the point where doctors are willing to let a transgender person die, whomever is president doesnt matter a shite.
But what it does do is either slow the slippery slope or allow for the start of a gradual reverse of direction where some of the awful shit Trump has normalised can be gradually undone.
1. I get what he's saying, it's just dismissive and stupid, and he would rather take a low swipe at folks that actually like him somewhat than be confronted with his own shitty tactics. I am... unsympathetic.
2. Not sure you GET how far things are already as far as the literal thing under discussion, trans folks getting dead for being trans and needing medical care, Faust. It's ACTUALLY already well into "normalized" tacitly and now being EXPLICITLY sanctioned. There is not, and kinda never was, a nice gradual path back to be walked.
https://planettransgender.com/trump-treatment-of-covid19-transgender-patients-is-optional/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hhs-allow-doctors-to-refuse-lgbtq/
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:33:49 AM
Quote from: altered on April 26, 2020, 01:35:17 AM
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 12:31:57 AM
Quote from: altered on April 25, 2020, 09:43:45 PM
If one of those health problems explodes, and I have no doubt it will, and the doctors say "oh, tranny freak" and decide I deserve to die, I'm gone forever.
If you ever find yourself in a time and place where doctors at a hospital say "oh, tranny freak" and decide you deserve to die, the world you live in has far bigger problems than electing Joe Biden can solve.
Then you would prefer to have people die to prove a point than to help people live by compromising your convictions.
This makes you a monster.
What the Fuck Mountain are you even talking about? Not a damn thing I said is anything close to this.
You missed my point entirely, which doesn't matter since I'm sure you don't give a shit what my point was.
And Cramulus wonders why I refrain from "participating".
I guess the "appropriate response" you were looking for was among the lines of:
"Oh, thanks for the great insight! I'll go dig my own grave instead of wasting everyones time and attention! I for sure was blind to the fact that Biden was not gonna be the pathway to utopia! What a retard i was before you taught me about how the world works!"
WE KNOW, you're missing the point entirely.
Quote from: Faust on April 26, 2020, 05:18:01 AM
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:47:28 AM
What is it exactly that any of you think I'm actually saying?
I'm not sure why I'm bothering to say anything at all. This place is and always has been like a massive immune response system where if anything seems politically strange to the hivemind, everyone loses their shit and descends in full force upon the offending intruder - even when that person is not saying what it is you seem to think that they're saying.
I got what you were saying, even if the others don't. Yes if the normalisation of that kind of awful behaviour reaches the point where doctors are willing to let a transgender person die, whomever is president doesnt matter a shite.
But what it does do is either slow the slippery slope or allow for the start of a gradual reverse of direction where some of the awful shit Trump has normalised can be gradually undone.
This. I read him perfectly.
Which means dismissing the reduction of the direct impact of this Bad Normal, and by extension the harm done by it, is equivalent to accepting that death is going to happen anyway so why bother trying to save anyone.
It makes a person a monster if they can think that reducing harm is second to getting the opportunity to burn down the system.
Another way I can look at it is to say that clearly, is queers weren't meant to be part of The Good Future which is why us dying before it comes along is okay.
There is absolutely no flattering or pleasant or even slightly shitty interpretation of your position, Elvis. You have dismissed people dying right now for some reason.
This isn't an abstract thing, some trolley problem bullshit. This is right here, right now: don't pull the lever, you kill many many innocent people by proxy, and the system collapses before anyone can even get a game plan to rebuild shit and get the world functioning again. Pull the lever, and some of them will have a chance to save themselves, there's a chance to organize further, some of our institutions might be possible to salvage in appearance if not in function, and we might even have time left over to plan out where the future goes. But by pulling that lever, you delay the collapse of the system.
If you prioritize collapsing the system NOW NOT LATER over saving people, you are a monster in any sane morality.
If you demand the system gets collapsed instead of any attempt made to salvage it, which I can respect the thought process behind, you can buy time and save as many as want to be saved.
Organize mutual aid groups. Focus on housing, healthcare, and finding a place for marginalized, outcast people. Focus on safety and infrastructure, because these will be lost if you let it all burn down, and people will die from poor planning about it.
But if you cannot wait, then do not tell me you aren't a monster. Do not lie to all of us here on this forum to pretend like you are a human being worthy of even such a word as mediocre.
If you are okay with your preferred future killing innocents that could have survived, you are a monster.
At the very least, fucking own it.
Coming back to the OP isnt going to convincing them to vote for biden over trump, if they are already voting for trump you are unlikely to sway that.
My biggest fear, and it is the likely way that trump will win the election is that he has a bunch of diehard zealots while biden has a charisma void.
What will happen is people who complain about trump, but they wont register that where it matters on the day.
The single best thing you can do in all this is find the people who say they will vote biden, and make sure they are registered to vote, that they show up on the day.
Because the Cassandra in me says trump will get back into office, not because of his overwhelming voter base, but because the amount who actually got out to vote will be tiny
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:29:57 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:09:15 AM
You've been low key MAGA since you've been here.
You just don't know how to read someone who has opinions you don't understand without projecting your own issues onto them.
No, I remember you saying quite clearly, here or at Scrub, about "giving Trump a chance," then getting butthurt about it (that last part doesn't mean much, you're
always butthurt).
Well, he's had his chance. How's that working out for you?
So no, I do not believe I will accept political advice from you.
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on April 26, 2020, 03:38:00 AM
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:29:57 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:09:15 AM
You've been low key MAGA since you've been here.
You just don't know how to read someone who has opinions you don't understand without projecting your own issues onto them.
Sounds like shoddy MAGA gaslighting and limp-dick grandstanding to me. I'm pretty sure Howl understands you perfectly, now. FUNNY thing is that he even spoke well of you a bit when I expressed what a fuckstick shitnozzle you were to him. You don't deserve the tacit acceptance you have had here. The only thing occasionally amusing about you is a stale comic that has in the past been amusing, but is ultimately just you being unable to let go of some memes used against you years ago.
Get fucked.
I mean that.
Pretty much this.
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:47:28 AM
What is it exactly that any of you think I'm actually saying?
I'm not sure why I'm bothering to say anything at all. This place is and always has been like a massive immune response system where if anything seems politically strange to the hivemind, everyone loses their shit and descends in full force upon the offending intruder - even when that person is not saying what it is you seem to think that they're saying.
That's one explanation.
The other is that people here genuinely don't like you.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:47:28 AM
What is it exactly that any of you think I'm actually saying?
I'm not sure why I'm bothering to say anything at all. This place is and always has been like a massive immune response system where if anything seems politically strange to the hivemind, everyone loses their shit and descends in full force upon the offending intruder - even when that person is not saying what it is you seem to think that they're saying.
That's one explanation.
The other is that people here genuinely don't like you.
No, he's right, our collective reading comprehension in the forum is of kindergarden, surely we can't hope to understand what advanced ideas hes desperatly trying to convey to us.
Quote from: The Johnny on April 26, 2020, 10:00:42 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 07:27:16 PM
Quote from: Hagtard Celine Dion Mustard on April 26, 2020, 03:47:28 AM
What is it exactly that any of you think I'm actually saying?
I'm not sure why I'm bothering to say anything at all. This place is and always has been like a massive immune response system where if anything seems politically strange to the hivemind, everyone loses their shit and descends in full force upon the offending intruder - even when that person is not saying what it is you seem to think that they're saying.
That's one explanation.
The other is that people here genuinely don't like you.
No, he's right, our collective reading comprehension in the forum is of kindergarden, surely we can't hope to understand what advanced ideas hes desperatly trying to convey to us.
Are these even words?? I have no cognition so I can't tell. I get headaches from trying to understand what is even words. Please halp!
this?
Sorry I've been away. Losing all fucking sense of time, what with being stuck in a time loop forever and all. I started having conversations with some of my piers (including some self-identifying republicans) and they've gone over better than I thought they would. But, the DNC couldn't make this any more difficult for me, doing things like removing Bernie from the NY primary ballot. No one I know that is a Bernie supporter believes that he has a chance of winning, but removing all opportunities for them to voice their opinions is leaving a real sour taste in their mouths. Is the DNC so spectacularly tone-deaf, or are they intentionally self destructing? I don't really see how it could be anything else. Like, never mind an olive branch for progressives, how about just NOT farting in their cereal and laughing?
Quote from: Pergamos on April 26, 2020, 12:39:23 AM
The small step part is important, but it's not that voting Biden now will give us the chance to vote for someone better next time, if Biden wins then the real work, protests, strikes, mass movement, will all be much easier and folks will be less likely to be killed doing them. Voting is nowhere near enough, Biden isnt going to fix anything, but he's going to break less things than Trump and the government was never going to fix things, not even under Sanders. That's up to the people.
This is similar to the angle I've been working. Voting for Biden is not "voting for the lesser of two evils" and, therefore, voting for evil. It's a strategic move that allows us to regroup.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:06:47 AM
I'm still voting against Trump. Because my feelings of butthurt do not exceed my hatred for every single thing Donald Trump stands for.
So, here's the thing,
I understand what you're saying.
However, calling someone who's vote we
need "butthurt," or otherwise antagonizing them is super counterproductive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for a "kinder and gentler" TGRR, that would be truly horrifying. But shit, at least keep it to yourself until the election is over so people actually trying to reach out to potential voters don't have an additional hurdle to climb, as it is, the DNC can't stop getting in their own way and making things difficult.
Quote from: Faust on April 26, 2020, 11:01:21 AM
Coming back to the OP isnt going to convincing them to vote for biden over trump, if they are already voting for trump you are unlikely to sway that.
My biggest fear, and it is the likely way that trump will win the election is that he has a bunch of diehard zealots while biden has a charisma void.
What will happen is people who complain about trump, but they wont register that where it matters on the day.
The single best thing you can do in all this is find the people who say they will vote biden, and make sure they are registered to vote, that they show up on the day.
Because the Cassandra in me says trump will get back into office, not because of his overwhelming voter base, but because the amount who actually got out to vote will be tiny
Pretty much this.
The other thing to keep in mind is that many former Bernie/Warren supporters are very idealistic. Whether you think voting should be based on ideals or not, they believe it is. Convincing someone like that to vote against their ideals is very difficult (I should know, I am one of them) so consideration of the above fact should be taken into account. Remind people that voting is confidential and that no one will know who they voted for. Even the most idealistic will sway a bit when they think no one is watching.
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:25:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:06:47 AM
I'm still voting against Trump. Because my feelings of butthurt do not exceed my hatred for every single thing Donald Trump stands for.
So, here's the thing, I understand what you're saying. However, calling someone who's vote we need "butthurt," or otherwise antagonizing them is super counterproductive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for a "kinder and gentler" TGRR, that would be truly horrifying. But shit, at least keep it to yourself until the election is over so people actually trying to reach to potential voters out don't have an additional hurdle to climb, as it is, the DNC can't stop getting in their own way and making things difficult.
Dude, 4+ years ago, I was called a Nazi and a racist and a libertarian because I was voting for Bernie, and nobody said shit about it. Not
one person, *including*
everyone giving me shit now.
But now I have to be nice, because Saint Bernie is involved.
:whack:
No, I don't. I in fact feel no need to accept political wisdom or moral guidance from PD, because it's nothing but cock and
repost hypocrisy all the way down.
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:31:06 PM
The other thing to keep in mind is that many former Bernie/Warren supporters are very idealistic.
Sometimes I laugh so hard I shit my pants.
I mean, my choices went Harris, Warren, Sanders, some random asshole, Biden, a lump of Trump's shit, Pete, Gabbard, but I don't want to hear SHIT about idealism on this here forum. None. Nada. No gusta. Nein.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 11:35:01 PM
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:25:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:06:47 AM
I'm still voting against Trump. Because my feelings of butthurt do not exceed my hatred for every single thing Donald Trump stands for.
So, here's the thing, I understand what you're saying. However, calling someone who's vote we need "butthurt," or otherwise antagonizing them is super counterproductive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for a "kinder and gentler" TGRR, that would be truly horrifying. But shit, at least keep it to yourself until the election is over so people actually trying to reach to potential voters out don't have an additional hurdle to climb, as it is, the DNC can't stop getting in their own way and making things difficult.
Dude, 4+ years ago, I was called a Nazi and a racist and a libertarian because I was voting for Bernie, and nobody said shit about it. Not one person, *including* everyone giving me shit now.
But now I have to be nice, because Saint Bernie is involved.
:whack:
No, I don't. I in fact feel no need to accept political wisdom or moral guidance from PD, because it's nothing but cock and repost hypocrisy all the way down.
This has literally got nothing to do with Bernie at this point. It's about getting people who would otherwise not vote to get out there and get this orange fucktard out of office. You either help or don't. No one said you had to be happy about it. I'm certainly not. But if it's more important to you to antagonize people on the internet, fine, just realize it's making other people's jobs more difficult. For every one one person I can convince to "come around" we lose three or four because someone was antagonizing them.
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:39:18 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 11:35:01 PM
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:25:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:06:47 AM
I'm still voting against Trump. Because my feelings of butthurt do not exceed my hatred for every single thing Donald Trump stands for.
So, here's the thing, I understand what you're saying. However, calling someone who's vote we need "butthurt," or otherwise antagonizing them is super counterproductive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for a "kinder and gentler" TGRR, that would be truly horrifying. But shit, at least keep it to yourself until the election is over so people actually trying to reach to potential voters out don't have an additional hurdle to climb, as it is, the DNC can't stop getting in their own way and making things difficult.
Dude, 4+ years ago, I was called a Nazi and a racist and a libertarian because I was voting for Bernie, and nobody said shit about it. Not one person, *including* everyone giving me shit now.
But now I have to be nice, because Saint Bernie is involved.
:whack:
No, I don't. I in fact feel no need to accept political wisdom or moral guidance from PD, because it's nothing but cock and repost hypocrisy all the way down.
This has literally got nothing to do with Bernie at this point. It's about getting people who would otherwise not vote to get out there and get this orange fucktard out of office. You either help or don't. No one said you had to be happy about it. I'm certainly not. But if it's more important to you to antagonize people on the internet, fine, just realize it's making other people's jobs more difficult. For every one one person I can convince to "come around" we lose three or four because someone was antagonizing them.
Right here (PD), right now (this election), it's all personal. All of it.
Outside of PD I am quite willing to be more persuasive. But inside of PD, not so much.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 11:37:25 PM
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:31:06 PM
The other thing to keep in mind is that many former Bernie/Warren supporters are very idealistic.
Sometimes I laugh so hard I shit my pants.
I mean, my choices went Harris, Warren, Sanders, some random asshole, Biden, a lump of Trump's shit, Pete, Gabbard, but I don't want to hear SHIT about idealism on this here forum. None. Nada. No gusta. Nein.
WTF are you even on about? Luckily I'm heartily immune to your brand of shitposting, you inoculated me yourself. Read my posts as they are written and stop injecting things to be mad about. I'm talking strategy here. Like, remember that one game of Werewolf where you and I convinced everyone to just kill themselves? It's kinda like that, but a little more important than a forum game.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 11:43:17 PM
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:39:18 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 11:35:01 PM
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:25:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:06:47 AM
I'm still voting against Trump. Because my feelings of butthurt do not exceed my hatred for every single thing Donald Trump stands for.
So, here's the thing, I understand what you're saying. However, calling someone who's vote we need "butthurt," or otherwise antagonizing them is super counterproductive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for a "kinder and gentler" TGRR, that would be truly horrifying. But shit, at least keep it to yourself until the election is over so people actually trying to reach to potential voters out don't have an additional hurdle to climb, as it is, the DNC can't stop getting in their own way and making things difficult.
Dude, 4+ years ago, I was called a Nazi and a racist and a libertarian because I was voting for Bernie, and nobody said shit about it. Not one person, *including* everyone giving me shit now.
But now I have to be nice, because Saint Bernie is involved.
:whack:
No, I don't. I in fact feel no need to accept political wisdom or moral guidance from PD, because it's nothing but cock and repost hypocrisy all the way down.
This has literally got nothing to do with Bernie at this point. It's about getting people who would otherwise not vote to get out there and get this orange fucktard out of office. You either help or don't. No one said you had to be happy about it. I'm certainly not. But if it's more important to you to antagonize people on the internet, fine, just realize it's making other people's jobs more difficult. For every one one person I can convince to "come around" we lose three or four because someone was antagonizing them.
Right here (PD), right now (this election), it's all personal. All of it.
Outside of PD I am quite willing to be more persuasive. But inside of PD, not so much.
This I can understand and respect, but it wasn't me that called you any of those things.
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:44:26 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 11:43:17 PM
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:39:18 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 11:35:01 PM
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:25:50 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 26, 2020, 03:06:47 AM
I'm still voting against Trump. Because my feelings of butthurt do not exceed my hatred for every single thing Donald Trump stands for.
So, here's the thing, I understand what you're saying. However, calling someone who's vote we need "butthurt," or otherwise antagonizing them is super counterproductive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for a "kinder and gentler" TGRR, that would be truly horrifying. But shit, at least keep it to yourself until the election is over so people actually trying to reach to potential voters out don't have an additional hurdle to climb, as it is, the DNC can't stop getting in their own way and making things difficult.
Dude, 4+ years ago, I was called a Nazi and a racist and a libertarian because I was voting for Bernie, and nobody said shit about it. Not one person, *including* everyone giving me shit now.
But now I have to be nice, because Saint Bernie is involved.
:whack:
No, I don't. I in fact feel no need to accept political wisdom or moral guidance from PD, because it's nothing but cock and repost hypocrisy all the way down.
This has literally got nothing to do with Bernie at this point. It's about getting people who would otherwise not vote to get out there and get this orange fucktard out of office. You either help or don't. No one said you had to be happy about it. I'm certainly not. But if it's more important to you to antagonize people on the internet, fine, just realize it's making other people's jobs more difficult. For every one one person I can convince to "come around" we lose three or four because someone was antagonizing them.
Right here (PD), right now (this election), it's all personal. All of it.
Outside of PD I am quite willing to be more persuasive. But inside of PD, not so much.
This I can understand and respect, but it wasn't me that called you any of those things.
Nobody spoke up. Not one person.
Then, later, I was asked to be nice to this person because they were having a hard time. :lulz:
So you might understand that it's slightly difficult to smile through the rage.
Dok,
Will get over this soon enough, but not right now.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 11:51:27 PM
So you might understand that it's slightly difficult to smile through the rage.
Dok,
Will get over this soon enough, but not right now.
Further, I didn't realize any of that was happening. Maybe even my own fault I didn't realize. Even further, had I realized, in all honesty, I don't know if I would have stepped in because 4+ years ago a LOT of PDers, including you, dogpiled on me about shit that I never said/did while I was dealing with extreme poverty and depression. No one cared to help in any way except Charley and Alty. They were literally the only ones. Thing is, I don't and will never hold a grudge against you or anyone else here on PD (except Nigel). Fuck the past, it's stupid anyway. I'd much prefer to spend my time taking down Orange Hitler and his fucking retarded cronies.
ya know... in a strange way Trailer Park Hitler and the Low-rent Reich are true uniters in that I would Happily stand shoulder to shoulder with otherwise intolerable folks if we were all focused on fucking their shit up for good and all. that's really saying something.
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:57:02 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 11:51:27 PM
So you might understand that it's slightly difficult to smile through the rage.
Dok,
Will get over this soon enough, but not right now.
Further, I didn't realize any of that was happening. Maybe even my own fault I didn't realize. Even further, had I realized, in all honesty, I don't know if I would have stepped in because 4+ years ago a LOT of PDers, including you, dogpiled on me about shit that I never said/did while I was dealing with extreme poverty and depression. No one cared to help in any way except Charley and Alty. They were literally the only ones. Thing is, I don't and will never hold a grudge against you or anyone else here on PD (except Nigel). Fuck the past, it's stupid anyway. I'd much prefer to spend my time taking down Orange Hitler and his fucking retarded cronies.
Point. It's Nigel I hate, not you.
My apologies.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 29, 2020, 12:23:26 AM
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:57:02 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 11:51:27 PM
So you might understand that it's slightly difficult to smile through the rage.
Dok,
Will get over this soon enough, but not right now.
Further, I didn't realize any of that was happening. Maybe even my own fault I didn't realize. Even further, had I realized, in all honesty, I don't know if I would have stepped in because 4+ years ago a LOT of PDers, including you, dogpiled on me about shit that I never said/did while I was dealing with extreme poverty and depression. No one cared to help in any way except Charley and Alty. They were literally the only ones. Thing is, I don't and will never hold a grudge against you or anyone else here on PD (except Nigel). Fuck the past, it's stupid anyway. I'd much prefer to spend my time taking down Orange Hitler and his fucking retarded cronies.
Point. It's Nigel I hate, not you.
My apologies.
Cool beans.
Back on topic, I cannot
stand emboldened racists and bigots, let's take this fucker down. Love or hate, we have a lot of smart people here, let's do what we do best and convince people to do things they normally wouldn't :lulz:
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on April 29, 2020, 12:12:22 AM
ya know... in a strange way Trailer Park Hitler and the Low-rent Reich are true uniters in that I would Happily stand shoulder to shoulder with otherwise intolerable folks if we were all focused on fucking their shit up for good and all. that's really saying something.
Same. I didn't like you too much when you first signed up, but if Roger et al have come to tolerate you, then I'll happily leave all former notions I had of you in the past. We may have an opportunity here for one of the best GASMs ever.
Also, fuck Nigel.
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 29, 2020, 01:31:36 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 29, 2020, 12:23:26 AM
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 28, 2020, 11:57:02 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 28, 2020, 11:51:27 PM
So you might understand that it's slightly difficult to smile through the rage.
Dok,
Will get over this soon enough, but not right now.
Further, I didn't realize any of that was happening. Maybe even my own fault I didn't realize. Even further, had I realized, in all honesty, I don't know if I would have stepped in because 4+ years ago a LOT of PDers, including you, dogpiled on me about shit that I never said/did while I was dealing with extreme poverty and depression. No one cared to help in any way except Charley and Alty. They were literally the only ones. Thing is, I don't and will never hold a grudge against you or anyone else here on PD (except Nigel). Fuck the past, it's stupid anyway. I'd much prefer to spend my time taking down Orange Hitler and his fucking retarded cronies.
Point. It's Nigel I hate, not you.
My apologies.
Cool beans.
Back on topic, I cannot stand emboldened racists and bigots, let's take this fucker down. Love or hate, we have a lot of smart people here, let's do what we do best and convince people to do things they normally wouldn't :lulz:
Quote from: The Wizard Joseph on April 29, 2020, 12:12:22 AM
ya know... in a strange way Trailer Park Hitler and the Low-rent Reich are true uniters in that I would Happily stand shoulder to shoulder with otherwise intolerable folks if we were all focused on fucking their shit up for good and all. that's really saying something.
Same. I didn't like you too much when you first signed up, but if Roger et al have come to tolerate you, then I'll happily leave all former notions I had of you in the past. We may have an opportunity here for one of the best GASMs ever.
I'm down.
And TWJ is fine. He just had a rocky start.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 29, 2020, 01:40:02 AM
I'm down.
And TWJ is fine. He just had a rocky start.
Cool.
I think the best start is to try different approaches on how to get people to do something that they would otherwise think is too unwholesome and report back here with what works and what doesn't. The more memetic of us (looks at Cram) could possibly come up with posters etc for us to circulate. Personally, I think it's the type of thing that is easier with a one on one convo, but anything that can be distributed en masse would, of course, be helpful.
Reminder to
everyone, we do not have to be truthful, we do not have to be logical (unless that is what works in a given case). The
only thing we gotta do is get Ferret Head the fuck out.
It's tough and a lot of what needs to be done just sucks. I had a convo the other day with a buddy that started with "You realize we
have to vote for Biden, right?" and it felt so gross to say, I'm not a huge fan of "lesser of two evils" rhetoric, but luckily in this case, I was able to present the idea successfully.
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 29, 2020, 01:50:23 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 29, 2020, 01:40:02 AM
I'm down.
And TWJ is fine. He just had a rocky start.
Cool.
I think the best start is to try different approaches on how to get people to do something that they would otherwise think is too unwholesome and report back here with what works and what doesn't. The more memetic of us (looks at Cram) could possibly come up with posters etc for us to circulate. Personally, I think it's the type of thing that is easier with a one on one convo, but anything that can be distributed en masse would, of course, be helpful.
Reminder to everyone, we do not have to be truthful, we do not have to be logical (unless that is what works in a given case). The only thing we gotta do is get Ferret Head the fuck out.
It's tough and a lot of what needs to be done just sucks. I had a convo the other day with a buddy that started with "You realize we have to vote for Biden, right?" and it felt so gross to say, I'm not a huge fan of "lesser of two evils" rhetoric, but luckily in this case, I was able to present the idea successfully.
My best argument so far is that RBG won't be around forever, and sitting this one out helps guarantee that Trump picks her replacement.
Also, you're not voting for Biden, you're voting THROUGH Biden.
IE, whomever he picks as his VP, because he isn't going to last long himself.
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 29, 2020, 02:00:08 AM
Also, you're not voting for Biden, you're voting THROUGH Biden.
IE, whomever he picks as his VP, because he isn't going to last long himself.
I like that spin on it. Will definitely be a more or less powerful take depending on who he picks. Hopefully the DNC can Neo out of the way of the next few shots they take at their own foot.
Quote from: Dimocritus on April 29, 2020, 02:03:27 AM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on April 29, 2020, 02:00:08 AM
Also, you're not voting for Biden, you're voting THROUGH Biden.
IE, whomever he picks as his VP, because he isn't going to last long himself.
I like that spin on it. Will definitely be a more or less powerful take depending on who he picks. Hopefully the DNC can Neo out of the way of the next few shots they take at their own foot.
I am hoping he has the sense to pick Stacey Abrams or Elizabeth Warren.
"Biden is a president who will rely on his advisors" is a phrase that reassures me