Principia Discordia

Brothers and Sisters,

It has been years (months, weeks, days) since Our Goddess Eris first blessed me with her holy spirit; even longer since I first learned my habits of the Natural Philosopher (whatever that means).  Such that the two entwine, I hasten to add my eternal doubt that either of the two shall meet; or that they even exist; or that, existing, they are of separate natures.

A conflict has arisen, my brethren, and so it is with heavy heart I abandon my meaningful pursuits into the nature of the 5-7-5 form, and the benefits of pie (pi-po-phi-pho), and address you as a man of the (tattered) cloth.  

Of late, my pineal gland has remained silent.  This has been borne out by the stirring of the other bodily humors that pervade my corporal form.  In an attempt to revive said awakenings, it can be plainly obvious that the snake of Kundalini has been awoken in my base charkas (known fully well by the Scorpios in our midst), and has reared its hooded head to advance along my spine.  I tell you now, sisters and brothers, the forked tongue of Qetzlquatl has teased the seat of Eris, and I may begin the epistle I bring to you.  That, and I,Äôm pretty sure the open bottle of wine sitting next to me has something to do with it.

It has been written in the false books (for all books are false; for they are made of words, which imply the arbitrary aspect of linearity and of single-mindedness) that there existed in the 23rd revolution, a Legion of Dynamic Discord, and an Erisian Liberation Front.  These groups existed in the minds of those who never existed, and they live in my mind now.  The delineations are random, fluid, and arbitrary,Äîlike most things, they exist in the mind of the operator, and that operator is me.  Suffice to say, these groups do not exist.  And yet, if not in name, they exist in mutating categories residing within my mind, hastening judgment without more exacting deliberations: which make them a possible liability and hazard, if I trust in them too much.  So I better not.  But I have to say, they do help when writing Epistles.

The LDD, as it was (falsely) written, tended toward the chaos of the everyday,Äîthat is, the inhibiting force that was the body politik, the social order that imposed arbitrary rules through the barrel of a gun,Äîthis was their enemy, a solid, if shifting, body of authority figures that stood in the way of the student of Eris and Hir maxims.  To this end the LDD worked inside the common reality (perceived) to bring about chaos, usually violent chaos, with the hopes of liberating those who never knew they were trapped inside the chains of Social Order, and further liberating themselves, who saw the chains first-hand, in the restrictions of their liberty and their rights as sentient beings, capable of their own destiny.

Their mirror were the ELF: mystics, dreamers, and philosophers, who traveled the path inwards, finding barriers within their own minds and souls, encountering impediments of thought, of convenience, of habit,Ķ their path was strewn with seemingly impossible obstacles, for how can one do battle with their own minds, who was seemingly both attacker and defender?  But they found that, for them, the chains were self-imposed, the rigors and rules of social order were impregnated upon their waking selves by their sleeping selves (in the Gurdjieff sense of sleep).  To the ELF, the Social order was an outside occurrence; they had adopted the TAZ (Temporary Autonomous Zone per Hakim Bey) as a mobile system that can surround the individual and enable an individual to nominally live above social games; and then, in the instances where spheres collide, adopt the meta-awareness state of non-emotional-involvement.  For when economics becomes a game of paper tickets, why should bio-survival become involved?

Such is the perceived divide between these two camps of Eris that conflict would inevitably arise.  Even in the False (falsely called) books, Hagbard and the Dealy Lama argued about their roles in the war of (possible) apocalypse.  The LDD looks at the ELF and wonders:  ,ÄúHow can such proselytizers of the faith be so placid about the happenings of our society?  I stab you!,Äù  The ELF turns to the LDD and says, ,ÄúHow can you be so concerned?  Have a cookie.,Äù

The LDD thinks globally; The ELF acts locally.  For one,Äôs immediate surroundings are far more malleable than the intangibles of human consciousness and the Machiavellian fantasias of the Global Body Politik (or even the National Body Politik).  Wouldn,Äôt one rather live in a well-constructed TAZ, a stronghold of independence with which to gradually influence the otherkind, than live in a constant struggle against impersonal forces which are ,Äújust following orders,Äù, and use violence and oppression to suppress, with the individual living a day-to-day battle to strike a blow to the heart of a perceived ,Äúempire,Äù, that does not even exist in any physical sense?

To be true; the ELF needs the LDD to ground them in the realities of the physical world.  As a non-prophet said, ,ÄúI can debate about the existence of that chair, but you can hit me over the head with it.,Äù  Most Homo Sapiens cannot easily conceive of the semantic nature of their minds when they have no food, clothes, education, sleep; but it seems that many of the LDD seem to be fighting perceived inaction wherever they find it, and not allowing the mental, philosophical, and spiritual element of revolution to be planted through subversive and occult (in its original meaning) means.

In the same vein, one may say that the ELF is shutting out the temporal needs of revolution; that spreading a concept is best served with a physical demonstration of said concept.  Many of the domesticated apes on this planet seem to be unable to adopt new methods of viewing the world without drastic shocks to the nervous system.  But once there, and the mind opens, philosophic ideas are allowed a two-way gate in and out.

The conflicts I have seen of late have been distressing, not just because abstract concepts of people I have come to regard as real have been offended, but because once again, the ELF and the LDD have come to blows, albeit virtual.  As the unelected and nonofficial, not to mention completely arrogant and self-serving attention whore of the entirely fictional and unreal ELF (which does not exist), I would like to extend my hand to the equally unreal head of the LDD, (who also does not exist) and begin some unreal form of cooperation, blending the physical and the esoteric, to bring about the true OM of the populous.

But now, the bottle is empty, and the arms of mother night call me.  In the mornin, I may not post this,Ķ. Ah, who am I kidding?  I spent all this time writing the damn thing.

Somehow I wish ELF was real; sounds very esoteric.

There is no ELF anywhere.

There is no not-ELF everywhere.

*Blows one note on flute, bows, and leaves*

Quote from: Robert DeNiroare you talkin' to me?

are you talking to ME?!?

seriously though...

first of all, I commend you on your well-written and well-thought out post. And I hope that you know that when I make generalizations such as "all you fakes" or "you so-called discordians", you are NOT one of those I am addressing. I have as much respect for you as I can have for someone who I know only as a collection of pixels. But there's a problem. While those of you who could be termed "ELF" have the cerebral bent and philosophical wherewithal to offer olive branches and entertain thoughts of a united discordia exerting its influence on the sleeping masses, those of us who could betermed "LDD" are of the opinion that the time for words and philosophies has long passed. We have come to believe that humanity has proven over and over again that the only way anyone listens to anything is through force. While there are those who would posit that humanity is not deserving of our efforts, that the experiment has failed and those of us who have awakened to some tiny degree should abandon our sleeping brethren and fend for ourselves, I can not be counted among them. Humanity may be blind, it may be ignorant, it may, in fact, have failed, but I do not believe it is beyond redemption. I prefer to view humanity as a whole, as a mega-organism, and as such, how can I, as one of the cells, in good conscience abandon the rest of the body to die? Would I not be signing my own death warrant as well? Certainly in the spiritual sense, if not necessarily in the physical. No, I view the struggle as analogous to fighting a cancer. the dominant paradigm is a rapidly metastasizing tumor, and we, those you call the LDD, are the intensive chemotherapy. Though the use of force and violence may kill many of those we would save, it may also kill the cancer that spreads through our species, and thereby leave us the ability to recover and become stronger than ever before. So I say to you that while I will NOT stop fanning the flames of discontent, still I believe that we work towards a common goal. It has come to be my belief that the comingling of our different paths would likely have the effect of diluting and weakening both of our "movements". I fell that we both serve our intended purpose better in our autonomy, and that while we should always be willing to share not only ideas, but passions, laughter, and the sense that what we are doing is right, we do so separated by our ideals in order that we may be more effective in bringing about the change we both so greatly desire.

8)

::kiss::


Last one to reach enlightenment is a rotten egg!


::scampers towards the light::


Damn, man, when are you gonna get your computer fixed?  The NSRA [edit: There is no NSRA anywhere] is drifting apart...

...um, together...

...whichever is the bad one for Discordian disorganizations...

Both.  But screw that.  Ive finally worked out where all the Uni and town council CCTV cameras are.  Which means later tonight Im on totse.com to make a shopping list and tomorrow Im off to get supplies.  You want Discord?  Then you'll damn well get it!

Have I posted the link to Security Camera Theatre? (http://www.notbored.org/scp-antecedents.html)

Quote from: LMNOHave I posted the link to Security Camera Theatre? (http://www.notbored.org/scp-antecedents.html)

You have, and I enjoyed and performed some Gilbert and Sullivan with my girlfriend beneath them (as she was taking part in a prodcution and because I am twisted).  However, I now need a laser pen/thing so I can stop them from working.

Don't forget your disguise while you do this...

Ah, interesting point bastard. And perhaps applicable when it comes to joining together movements.

But I'm still not convinced that both aspects aren't necessary for change. A person who follows one path blindly is less suited to the flexibility and personal leadership that real change demands. They stumble. But someone who possesses both aspects, while perhaps not perfect, is at least well-rounded and possesses the ability to see the full spectrum, inside and out, and not just their own little corner of discord.

Which is assuming that change can happen. That's a big assumption in my view, given how slow people's base natures seem to be evolving and changing.

Scribe, you make me so proud...

8)

Quote from: LMNODon't forget your disguise while you do this...

Black clothing?  Check.  Witnesses who will swear I was in a certain set of rooms on the other side of town all day?  Check.  Cash instead of cards to buy supplies? Check.  I love planning....

You know what the most frightening part of Turds reply was?

Quote from: GOATseI have as much respect for you as I can have for someone who I know only as a collection of pixels.

I've gained someone's respect.  How will I ever be able to look at myself in the mirror again?

Quote from: LMNOYou know what the most frightening part of Turds reply was?

Quote from: GOATseI have as much respect for you as I can have for someone who I know only as a collection of pixels.

I've gained someone's respect.  How will I ever be able to look at myself in the mirror again?

I got as far as the cookies and decided I'm an ELF, does that count(http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/bounce.gif)
PS I hope you wrote this last night.  I pictured you at your desk with a bottle of at 7:57 AM :roll:

...But didn't you notice that the ELF doesn't exist?  It's an abstraction, a completely subjective compartamentalizing of a human beings actions and thoughts.

But you're welcome to join, anyway.





And yes, I wrote it last night.

Quote from: Autoerotic AsphyxiationAnd Scribe, I hope you havent forgotten that loose lips sink ships.

Oh dont worry.  The University is already having problems due to its policy in certain areas.  The troublemakers over that are well known and suspiscion will fall on them (and I have nothing to do with them).  Nice to know you care though.

Sorry, hon.  I was talking to eldora.

::hugs AA::

Quote from: LMNO...But didn't you notice that the ELF doesn't exist?  It's an abstraction, a completely subjective compartamentalizing of a human beings actions and thoughts.

But you're welcome to join, anyway.





And yes, I wrote it last night.

And my slogan can be

QuoteI'm just in it for the cookies

I wanna join too!

^_________________________^

Quote from: ZakariI wanna join too!

^_________________________^

Go ahead.  Jump in.  It's a big pool.

ooh! ooh!

I wanna join too! will there be cookies and pie and flirting? will we all get to sit around and write poems and spout non-sequiteurs and then give each other knowing looks because were part of a special group that understands things that no one else understands?

*squeal*

Oh, I think I'm so excited I might just pee!

8)

I dont want to join.  I just want to cause my pieces of discord and not get caught.

Quotewill there be cookies and pie and flirting? will we all get to sit around and write poems and spout non-sequiteurs and then give each other knowing looks because were part of a special group that understands things that no one else understands?

Isn't that what we basically do already?  8) And I can act like a goofy 6 year old if I want.

Quoteyoull get your chance, son.

were looking for a few good men.

lucky for you all, were also looking for a lot of bullet sponges.

Sorry, I got more entertaining things to do with my life than kill innocents, rape women, bomb cities, and generally be an all around asshole. I leave that to people like you.

^_^ go along and play with your little gun now.

Quote from: Tontons Macoutsooh! ooh!

I wanna join too! will there be cookies and pie and flirting? will we all get to sit around and write poems and spout non-sequiteurs and then give each other knowing looks because were part of a special group that understands things that no one else understands?

*squeal*

Oh, I think I'm so excited I might just pee!

8)

Well, then, maybe you should wear a Depends.  

You missed my point much more than I missed yours.  Violence and violent activities will get people's attention, sure.  Will it change their minds?  Not bloody likely.  Gaining peoples' trust then showing them the world from a different angle than they were ever shown, that can change them.  Or it proves to them that your nuts and they never talk to you again which is cool because with people who do not want to see things from a different angle those that will not take off the blinders sometimes it is good to have those kinds of people never talk to you again, verstehe?

Quote from: Tontons Macoutsooh! ooh!

I wanna join too! will there be cookies and pie and flirting? will we all get to sit around and write poems and spout non-sequiteurs and then give each other knowing looks because were part of a special group that understands things that no one else understands?

*squeal*

Oh, I think I'm so excited I might just pee!

8)

::nominates GOAT, kicking and screaming into the ELF::

I hereby title thee "Judas of the ELF".

Don't worry.  Since the ELF doesn't exist, I'm sure your many, many NSRA buddies won't notice.

::tosses Turd 30 pieces of silver::

Care for some pie?

Quote from: eldora_avalon

Quote from: Tontons Macoutsooh! ooh!

I wanna join too! will there be cookies and pie and flirting? will we all get to sit around and write poems and spout non-sequiteurs and then give each other knowing looks because were part of a special group that understands things that no one else understands?

*squeal*

Oh, I think I'm so excited I might just pee!

8)

Well, then, maybe you should wear a Depends.  

You missed my point much more than I missed yours.  Violence and violent activities will get people's attention, sure.  Will it change their minds?  Not bloody likely.  Gaining peoples' trust then showing them the world from a different angle than they were ever shown, that can change them.  Or it proves to them that your nuts and they never talk to you again which is cool because with people who do not want to see things from a different angle those that will not take off the blinders sometimes it is good to have those kinds of people never talk to you again, verstehe?

Both ways have thier merits and their downfalls.  By employing both, we either get the best of each or the worst of it.  I intend to have the best of both.

Yep, my actual point, which either got lost, or was never clearly articulated, is that for the most part we should do that which we do best.  Work from our strength.  We learn more from activities that test our weaker attributes, but we accompish more by activities that use our strengths.  Putting a rifle in my hand would work about as well as putting a flower in Goat's(sorry you have changed names so many times that this is the one that stuck).  We each have things we do well.  If you think you don't, try something.  I would say if we must stick apart, then in our sticking apart, we also overlap.

Quote from: eldora_avalonYep, my actual point, which either got lost, or was never clearly articulated, is that for the most part we should do that which we do best.  Work from our strength.  We learn more from activities that test our weaker attributes, but we accompish more by activities that use our strengths.  Putting a rifle in my hand would work about as well as putting a flower in Goat's(sorry you have changed names so many times that this is the one that stuck).  We each have things we do well.  If you think you don't, try something.  I would say if we must stick apart, then in our sticking apart, we also overlap.

Huzzah!  We have made progress!  Or at least found a point of agreement.

vera noice grisshoppa.

/me bows and then pantses lmno in the name of the mother the sister and the holy queef.


violence changes the minds of the peopel agaisnt those who would do violence.

unless of course they make it appear as if the other guy started it...

::runs around with no pants::

*sigh*

unfortunately, non-violence has never successfully effected any serious change on the dominant paradigm.

neither has pies or cookies.

Quote from: Tontons Macouts*sigh*

unfortunately, non-violence has never successfully effected any serious change on the dominant paradigm.

neither has pies or cookies.

Fine.  You stand over there and be angry, and I'll stand over here with pie and cookies.  We'll see who attracts more people :D

Quote from: Tontons Macouts*sigh*

unfortunately, non-violence has never successfully effected any serious change on the dominant paradigm.

neither has pies or cookies.

i disagree. moeny is a huge paradigm shifter, and not inheriently violent in and of itself.

tho without money, a war is always lost.

Quote from: eldora_avalon

Quote from: Tontons Macouts*sigh*

unfortunately, non-violence has never successfully effected any serious change on the dominant paradigm.

neither has pies or cookies.

Fine.  You stand over there and be angry, and I'll stand over here with pie and cookies.  We'll see who attracts more people :D

I'm more interesting in seeing who survives, and unfortunately, I don't think it'll be the people in the corner with pies and cookies, I think it'll be the people who start the shooting first.

don't you get it? we are approaching a seminal moment in western history. those who sit on their couches (or in front of their computers) watching TV will still be sitting there when the knock at the door comes and the men with guns show up, and by then it'll be too late to stop any of it. If we take the fight to them, right now, we might be able to change things before it's so 1984 that we're all convinced that we've always been at war with Eurasia.

capisce?

8)

Quote from: horab the impaler

Quote from: Tontons Macouts*sigh*

unfortunately, non-violence has never successfully effected any serious change on the dominant paradigm.

neither has pies or cookies.

i disagree. moeny is a huge paradigm shifter, and not inheriently violent in and of itself.

tho without money, a war is always lost.

And of course, money need not be gained only in non-violent ways.

Pies and cookies or watching someone getting a serious ass kicking?!?!?!


Oh Lord the dilemas you throw my way.

* shakes fist at heaven*

I curse the day you ever made me choose between cookies and violence.

* light bulb appears over teh head like the illuminated truth of the cosmos itself  I reach up and pull the light buld down and put it in my coat pocket*

*walks over to get a pie... if given one takes it to watch the serious ass kicking while eating pie... if not given one takes my rage over to the ass kickking to join in*

Now thats what i'm talking about.


*sometime later jacket bursts into flames as the light bulb got too hot in pocket*

you may be a very wise man, CG....

8)

*pies Tontons Macouts in the face*

Not violence or pies...

Violence and pies

Pies until they longer suffice.

Pies and cookies or death!

Quote from: Tontons Macouts

Quote from: eldora_avalon
Fine.  You stand over there and be angry, and I'll stand over here with pie and cookies.  We'll see who attracts more people :D

I'm more interesting in seeing who survives, and unfortunately, I don't think it'll be the people in the corner with pies and cookies, I think it'll be the people who start the shooting first.

Ok, first I have to say that the very first image that popped into my head was the Three Stooges and any of their movies where they turn a fancy tuxedo and ballgown party into a food fight.  Can you get any more Discordian than that?  Well, that's what popped into my head, now I will try to get through the rest of this. :(

Quote from: Tontons Macouts
I'm more interesting in seeing who survives, and unfortunately, I don't think it'll be the people in the corner with pies and cookies, I think it'll be the people who start the shooting first.

don't you get it? we are approaching a seminal moment in western history. those who sit on their couches (or in front of their computers) watching TV will still be sitting there when the knock at the door comes and the men with guns show up, and by then it'll be too late to stop any of it. If we take the fight to them, right now, we might be able to change things before it's so 1984 that we're all convinced that we've always been at war with Eurasia.

capisce?

8)

Ok, I am not worried about being convinced that we were always at war with Eurasia.  If you recall, I posted a pic of Rummy shaking hands with Saddam.  I know more than I want to about history.  Whether I like or it or not, actually.  My hubby loves history.  When we sit on our asses in front of the TV, it is often the History Channel that we are watching, and they gt things wrong sometimes and my hubby feels the need to announce it to the room.  Plus, just because we have cookies and pies, it does not mean the gun safe is empty.  I live in Michigan, remeber?  Even my mother has a gun, for cryin' out loud.  I just don't feel the need to start anything right now.  One of my biggest fears is that they will try to takes guns away.  When they do that, we will be in big shit, because that is what dictatorships do right before things get really ugly.  And, sorry, you are not cleared to know what is in the gun safe at my house.   8)

thats alright the government knows...unless you have unliscenced guns... then "they" have the "right" to come looking for them with "force".

No guns here.  Unless you live in the countryside and need them to remove vermin.  And that does worry me.  Carrying a weapon of any sort is illegal yet criminals by definition dont obey the law. This is why I have to spend time in my self-defence classes teaching people how to use pens and other "inconspicuous items" rather than things which would help them survive alot better.

And whats the difference between Eurasia and terrorism?

the problem is that no matter how many guns you have, if you wait until they knock on your door and tell you to turn in your guns before you start shooting, it's already way too late.

8)

True.  Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom, I believe?  Then again, Im more vigilant these days than ever before, and I seem to have less freedom...

Quote*pies Tontons Macouts in the face*

Not violence or pies...

Violence and pies

That's violence WITH pies, technically...

8)

::sheds a tear for the fallen pastry soldier::

Quote from: Tontons Macoutsthe problem is that no matter how many guns you have, if you wait until they knock on your door and tell you to turn in your guns before you start shooting, it's already way too late.

8)

I am not too worried about that.  I think that is the only thing I am NOT worried that Bush will do.  With the NRA in his back pocket, he'd be an even bigger moron than he has proven himself to be.  Plus his party would turn on him.  Almost all of the guns in my house are hunting guns, just saying.

you need to get you a nice street-sweeper. Automatic shotguns are the fuckin' BOMB, yo!

8)

Quote from: Tontons Macoutsyou need to get you a nice street-sweeper. Automatic shotguns are the fuckin' BOMB, yo!

8)

You're not cleared for any more information, sorry 8)

I'm cleared for information that you don't even know you know.

I'm so fuckin' cleared, y'all muthafuckas can see through me.

I'm so fuckin' cleared, you gotta clean me with streak-free windex.

8)

I'm also pretty goddamn drunk, ATM. w00t!

Quote from: Tontons MacoutsI'm cleared for information that you don't even know you know.

I'm so fuckin' cleared, y'all muthafuckas can see through me.

I'm so fuckin' cleared, you gotta clean me with streak-free windex.

8)

I'm also pretty goddamn drunk, ATM. w00t!

You arent cleared to release that information.drunkard.....

::drags Turd over to the Open Bar sofa and plops him down next to Scribe::

i have been sent to release you from your whimsica iconoclastic braying

by who? certain peple... it matters not... i am here and you are the only ones who will listen....   so this i have to ask of you => what do you know of psychadellic drugs?

often the celing is under us

I know everything about psychadelic drugs from here (http://www.totse.com/en/drugs/index.html)

thats stupid your stupid





stupid

:( I dont take drugs though.  Ask Tontons Macouts, he is the drug man here.

u ask i ask

i invoke thy wisdom street fighter savant.. illuminate the illuminated

frag... i was sent here for turd - where is turd? - turd?

It is whispered among the cowled ones within the Illuminated Bretheren that Tontons Macouts, is another false name for the leader of the NSRA, Turd Ferguson.

Other false names include the Communist Bastard, and...well, I forget...

Course Turd is a false name as well. I am the only one on this board that knows his "True" identity. And I don't feel like telling anyone. Especially anyone who wants to know.

8)

Edit: And he is most likely drunk right now, guessing from an earlier post. Which I applaud him for, cause hes been working too much.

Yes he was drunk and typing in tiny letters last time I saw him...

He also known by the mysterious name of GOAT.  I will actually start working on the new mission stuff again soon, perhaps Sunday. I need tomorrow to tool up and do some course reading.

Quote from: Tontons Macouts*sigh*

unfortunately, non-violence has never successfully effected any serious change on the dominant paradigm.

neither has pies or cookies.

are you sure about never? the freedom riders? MLK? Ghandi? international sactions vs. Apartheid?

the Suffragettes were largely non-violent (apart from that racehorse collision but otherwise content to chain themself to stuff)

successfully tested but sadly underfunded & ignored programs whereby innercity kids are involved in sports resulting in significant reductions in local crime (until the programs got canned)

likewise literacy & education programs in prisons helping in successful rehabilitations (again another concept that is largely ignored)

and while things are far from perfect in the UK, the 'troubles' in N.Ireland have not been at anything like the levels they were in the 70s & 80s. i remember the early 80s and seeing shit get blown up pretty much every week either in Ulster or on the mainland. cease-fire anyone?

no. i'm not a pacifist either. i support self defense et al. but to suggest that non-violence never has any effect is a bit lazy (sorry turd - just sayin')

Um he did say the paradigm, so it depends alot on how you view that paradigm.  From an anarchist point of view, for instance, it coudl be said those changes had little effect because the State continued to exist.  Maybe. :?

Quote from: Tontons Macouts
I'm more interesting in seeing who survives, and unfortunately, I don't think it'll be the people in the corner with pies and cookies, I think it'll be the people who start the shooting first.

don't you get it? we are approaching a seminal moment in western history. those who sit on their couches (or in front of their computers) watching TV will still be sitting there when the knock at the door comes and the men with guns show up, and by then it'll be too late to stop any of it. If we take the fight to them, right now, we might be able to change things before it's so 1984 that we're all convinced that we've always been at war with Eurasia.

capisce?

8)

I have a problem with this viewpoint. A lot of attrocities have been perpetuated by people with this mindset.

Tell me, Goat: Are you not actually one of these people who sit on the sidelines dreaming of the glory of the fight while everyday, normal people affect most of the change that happens through other channels?

The system sucks but it's not dead, despite the macho postuering that would tell us otherwise. Of course bloodshed and gunplay would be the best thing for this country. Of course it would, and it wouldn't force us to give up the human decency we've managed to scrape up so far, despite those who call for war. Right? It's the pathway to freedom, right?

Aggression begets agression, violence is a merry-go-round that solves nothing. It's simply not effective on a mass level. History has taught us that time and time again, and yet there are still people like you who call for it.

I'm no cookie and pie ELF (not that there's anything wrong with that  :P ), I'm well aware that there needs to be social change. I'm well aware that most people are clueless sheep. But I'm sick of seeing people die in the name of protecting our future when alternatives still exist to us. You're not enslaved yet! No, you're not. Not really. You were given a brain and a voice and an imagination at the very least, and you're squandering them for the illusion of enslavement!

1984 was a good lesson. It's a possible future, one that most of us have considered with dread. A watermark of where we don't want to go. And lately, it's also served as an excuse for extremeists whose real desire is for bloodshed in any form. I know the type well, many of my early years were spent in the company of militias, self-proclaimed armies of the people. They make no real change, because they're still trapped in the idea that theirs is the only way, that things are so far gone that the only alternative is to kill everything that moves.

It's a projection. 1984 was written in the spirit of "Change before it's too late, before your lives become pawns of the government." It's not an excuse to create more wholesale slaughter. One who calls for such an approach is no better than Nationalists who promote an us against them attitude in the name of country. Your methods are the same, your results will be the same. There are other ways, there are people fighting and making headway. You're not one of them.

You've skipped a pretty damn big step.

Quote from: Pope T.Mangrove xvii

Quote from: Tontons Macouts*sigh*

unfortunately, non-violence has never successfully effected any serious change on the dominant paradigm.

neither has pies or cookies.

are you sure about never? the freedom riders? MLK? Ghandi? international sactions vs. Apartheid?

the Suffragettes were largely non-violent (apart from that racehorse collision but otherwise content to chain themself to stuff)

successfully tested but sadly underfunded & ignored programs whereby innercity kids are involved in sports resulting in significant reductions in local crime (until the programs got canned)

likewise literacy & education programs in prisons helping in successful rehabilitations (again another concept that is largely ignored)

and while things are far from perfect in the UK, the 'troubles' in N.Ireland have not been at anything like the levels they were in the 70s & 80s. i remember the early 80s and seeing shit get blown up pretty much every week either in Ulster or on the mainland. cease-fire anyone?

no. i'm not a pacifist either. i support self defense et al. but to suggest that non-violence never has any effect is a bit lazy (sorry turd - just sayin')

you misunderstood what I said...I said that non-violence has never effected any serious change on the dominant paradigm. Totally different, bro, because in the grand scheme of things, MLK and Ghandi didn't really change shit.

8)

Quote from: Hoshiko

Quote from: Tontons Macouts
I'm more interesting in seeing who survives, and unfortunately, I don't think it'll be the people in the corner with pies and cookies, I think it'll be the people who start the shooting first.

don't you get it? we are approaching a seminal moment in western history. those who sit on their couches (or in front of their computers) watching TV will still be sitting there when the knock at the door comes and the men with guns show up, and by then it'll be too late to stop any of it. If we take the fight to them, right now, we might be able to change things before it's so 1984 that we're all convinced that we've always been at war with Eurasia.

capisce?

8)

I have a problem with this viewpoint. A lot of attrocities have been perpetuated by people with this mindset.

Tell me, Goat: Are you not actually one of these people who sit on the sidelines dreaming of the glory of the fight while everyday, normal people affect most of the change that happens through other channels?

The system sucks but it's not dead, despite the macho postuering that would tell us otherwise. Of course bloodshed and gunplay would be the best thing for this country. Of course it would, and it wouldn't force us to give up the human decency we've managed to scrape up so far, despite those who call for war. Right? It's the pathway to freedom, right?

Aggression begets agression, violence is a merry-go-round that solves nothing. It's simply not effective on a mass level. History has taught us that time and time again, and yet there are still people like you who call for it.

I'm no cookie and pie ELF (not that there's anything wrong with that  :P ), I'm well aware that there needs to be social change. I'm well aware that most people are clueless sheep. But I'm sick of seeing people die in the name of protecting our future when alternatives still exist to us. You're not enslaved yet! No, you're not. Not really. You were given a brain and a voice and an imagination at the very least, and you're squandering them for the illusion of enslavement!

1984 was a good lesson. It's a possible future, one that most of us have considered with dread. A watermark of where we don't want to go. And lately, it's also served as an excuse for extremeists whose real desire is for bloodshed in any form. I know the type well, many of my early years were spent in the company of militias, self-proclaimed armies of the people. They make no real change, because they're still trapped in the idea that theirs is the only way, that things are so far gone that the only alternative is to kill everything that moves.

It's a projection. 1984 was written in the spirit of "Change before it's too late, before your lives become pawns of the government." It's not an excuse to create more wholesale slaughter. One who calls for such an approach is no better than Nationalists who promote an us against them attitude in the name of country. Your methods are the same, your results will be the same. There are other ways, there are people fighting and making headway. You're not one of them.

You've skipped a pretty damn big step.

bah. So much quicker and easier to just exterminate those who insist on the further stepfordization of the proles. I like to think of it as "immediate darwinism".

8)

sorry about the triple-post, but I believe that you had a question for me, yoiz?

8)

What yoiz was interested in is here, I think http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4029

Quotebah. So much quicker and easier to just exterminate those who insist on the further stepfordization of the proles. I like to think of it as "immediate darwinism".

And as I keep telling you, I am one of those proles. And every time you use that word, you draw attention to the fact that so are you.

I ain't stepfordized, and most of the "proles" I know aren't either, despite appearances.

In fact, it's the proles who carry the weight of power on their backs. This government's downfall will be that it's begun to underestimate them, not threat of extermination by the NSRA.

Your downfall would be the same but quicker.

As for your "plan": Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

one key difference.

old boss = some idiot from texas.

new boss = me!

I like new boss better.

8)

That's you. I prefer neither.

You can't tell me that your first rule of business wouldn't be to install various poultry-based weapons on the roof of every building.

you try to make it sound like that'd be a bad thing...

8)

Like I said, ineffective.

You have to think bigger. Like melons and cabbage.

And possibly VW buses.

Quote from: Hoshiko

Quote from: Tontons Macouts
I'm more interesting in seeing who survives, and unfortunately, I don't think it'll be the people in the corner with pies and cookies, I think it'll be the people who start the shooting first.

don't you get it? we are approaching a seminal moment in western history. those who sit on their couches (or in front of their computers) watching TV will still be sitting there when the knock at the door comes and the men with guns show up, and by then it'll be too late to stop any of it. If we take the fight to them, right now, we might be able to change things before it's so 1984 that we're all convinced that we've always been at war with Eurasia.

capisce?

8)

I have a problem with this viewpoint. A lot of attrocities have been perpetuated by people with this mindset.

Tell me, Goat: Are you not actually one of these people who sit on the sidelines dreaming of the glory of the fight while everyday, normal people affect most of the change that happens through other channels?

The system sucks but it's not dead, despite the macho postuering that would tell us otherwise. Of course bloodshed and gunplay would be the best thing for this country. Of course it would, and it wouldn't force us to give up the human decency we've managed to scrape up so far, despite those who call for war. Right? It's the pathway to freedom, right?

Aggression begets agression, violence is a merry-go-round that solves nothing. It's simply not effective on a mass level. History has taught us that time and time again, and yet there are still people like you who call for it.

I'm no cookie and pie ELF (not that there's anything wrong with that  :P ), I'm well aware that there needs to be social change. I'm well aware that most people are clueless sheep. But I'm sick of seeing people die in the name of protecting our future when alternatives still exist to us. You're not enslaved yet! No, you're not. Not really. You were given a brain and a voice and an imagination at the very least, and you're squandering them for the illusion of enslavement!

1984 was a good lesson. It's a possible future, one that most of us have considered with dread. A watermark of where we don't want to go. And lately, it's also served as an excuse for extremeists whose real desire is for bloodshed in any form. I know the type well, many of my early years were spent in the company of militias, self-proclaimed armies of the people. They make no real change, because they're still trapped in the idea that theirs is the only way, that things are so far gone that the only alternative is to kill everything that moves.

It's a projection. 1984 was written in the spirit of "Change before it's too late, before your lives become pawns of the government." It's not an excuse to create more wholesale slaughter. One who calls for such an approach is no better than Nationalists who promote an us against them attitude in the name of country. Your methods are the same, your results will be the same. There are other ways, there are people fighting and making headway. You're not one of them.

You've skipped a pretty damn big step.

Its a good point.  I dislike violence.  Alot.  Been there, done that, got the scars and occasional nightmares to prove it.

However, there is a problem.  At the moment, things are really fucked up.

Yes, it has been worse.  But look at it this way, the normal scocietal, cultural-religious factors no longer exist for alot of people.  Those past methods of social engineering and control no longer work, so the State has to fall back on one basic principle, which has served it since the dawn of time, violence.

And so we end up in a situation where we have laws, but they dont serve the people.  We have soldiers carrying out orders, but they are all the wrong ones.  We have secret police and talk of rooting out plots and the thing is even if there are no plots to beggin with, there soon will be.

And the law should be with the people, the State is meant to be for the protection of people against outer and inner threats.  Partly idealistic,but that is its most basic interpretation. And so the state itself has become the  enemy, guardian turned jailer.  And it wont give up the hold it has.  OK, none of that was particulary new.

But this may be.  OK, so the ELF has its methods.  It can help people get "out of their minds" (to use the Neurocam phrase).  But what does that do?  Liberation in the self, for sure, but what good is that freedom while living under a tyrant?

And if that is kept up, sooner or later the state will act first. The number of people affected will reach a critical mass, where it will be a threat. And thats the chance, right there.  Chance for success of a sort, or a mass failure.  An uprising, rather than a revolution.

And thats why we need both methods.  The state cannot be defeated without the use of violence, be it in a limited fashion or otherwise.  And this can include using its own violence against itself, in the media coverage.  This can take the form of systems attacks (like I mentioned in the Patriot Act III thread).  It can even be traditional guerrilla/insurgent tactics.

Both are needed.  Without the violence, the ELF labours will be for nothing.  Without the ELF, there will be no revolt, no uprising at all,just a few malcontents to be hunted down.

Quote from: HoshikoLike I said, ineffective.

You have to think bigger. Like melons and cabbage.

And possibly VW buses.

I'll have to get my boy to build a bigger trebuchet, but I'd be SO down to launch VW busses off of rooftops....especially if they're still full of stinky hippies...

8)

I still say, make some pies, make some cookies, tell people how evil marriage really is.  Don't get married unless you have kids.  Make love, not war, but you gotta use a condom now.  And there is nothing wrong with incense, it makes me feel happy.  Now they have to have a word for it, aroma therapy.  I am waiting for psychological therapy to be called therapy therapy.  For crying out loud, if something makes you feel good it is not automatically 'therapy', it is just good sense.  Anyway, why are we trying tp put ourselves, each other, and the perceived 'others' in a box, anyway.  Goat, you are the worst at this and I am not sure why.  And how many people can you claim to have helped take the blinders off.  I know I have helped my two best friends immensely, especially with personal issues in particular and life in general.  I suspect I have helped many others, but people pass through your life for reasons and you don't always keep track of them.  I also know I have tried to help many others, but the little bit of light that came in when I tried to pull the blinders off made them scream.  Most of the people I have tried to help have been women, for some reason with men it just ends up as sex.  I may have fucked some sense into some of them, but let's just let that be for now.  One of the biggest obstacles to helping women is abuse.  First you have to realise that one out of four(these stats are old, Bella may have more recent ones)females are sexually abused before they hit 18.  That is 25%.  That fucks up everything, depending on the severity and length of the abuse.  I know that many of the women that I tried to help, but could not, were not able to get past the guilt, pain, secretive nature of the abuse.  I also know I have helped some women get past these kind of issues.  If someone learned about felatio from their grandfather, you are going to be a lot more likely to lure them in with cookies.  They need cookies and tea.  They need to cry and learn to trust.  They have a lot of crap to go through before they can even give a shit about humanity.  You are in the place you are doing the things you do best.  Please try to not assume that when you see a person with a plate of cookies that all they have to offer is a plate of cookies.  WE HAVE PIE TOO.  HAHAHAHAHAAA!!!(and a beer for Goat 8) )

(http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/pint.gif)

PS I have no idea where this all came from, but I think it's nap time :shock:  :?  :roll:  :wink: (http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/sleeping.gif)

Its impressive in an off-topic-yet-on-topic way.  And in its strange structure...

Quote from: Scribe
Its a good point.  I dislike violence.  Alot.  Been there, done that, got the scars and occasional nightmares to prove it.

However, there is a problem.  At the moment, things are really fucked up.

Yes, it has been worse.  But look at it this way, the normal scocietal, cultural-religious factors no longer exist for alot of people.  Those past methods of social engineering and control no longer work, so the State has to fall back on one basic principle, which has served it since the dawn of time, violence.

And so we end up in a situation where we have laws, but they dont serve the people.  We have soldiers carrying out orders, but they are all the wrong ones.  We have secret police and talk of rooting out plots and the thing is even if there are no plots to beggin with, there soon will be.

And the law should be with the people, the State is meant to be for the protection of people against outer and inner threats.  Partly idealistic,but that is its most basic interpretation. And so the state itself has become the  enemy, guardian turned jailer.  And it wont give up the hold it has.  OK, none of that was particulary new.

But this may be.  OK, so the ELF has its methods.  It can help people get "out of their minds" (to use the Neurocam phrase).  But what does that do?  Liberation in the self, for sure, but what good is that freedom while living under a tyrant?

And if that is kept up, sooner or later the state will act first. The number of people affected will reach a critical mass, where it will be a threat. And thats the chance, right there.  Chance for success of a sort, or a mass failure.  An uprising, rather than a revolution.

And thats why we need both methods.  The state cannot be defeated without the use of violence, be it in a limited fashion or otherwise.  And this can include using its own violence against itself, in the media coverage.  This can take the form of systems attacks (like I mentioned in the Patriot Act III thread).  It can even be traditional guerrilla/insurgent tactics.

Both are needed.  Without the violence, the ELF labours will be for nothing.  Without the ELF, there will be no revolt, no uprising at all,just a few malcontents to be hunted down.

I never said that violence should never come into play. It's a last step, one you take when you've exhausted all other alternatives and they've got you backed into a corner. One that you take when it will minimize human suffering and loss in the future. One you implement when it'll get you somewhere, and it's not one you get stupid about or jump to. Now is not that time, and when I see someone spouting off 1984 quotes in the name of perpetuating violence against a current "police state", I think questioning their motives is a given.

People are tired of seeing those they know and love die. There's been alot of killing lately, alot of death. Because of that, they won't fight and die for any cause, no matter how angry they are. Brute force helps no one in a situation like ours.

The most difficult task in any form of mass change, any uprising, is convincing the masses. You win their hearts and minds. You negotiate change from within. In this you're right, the ELF aspect is necessary, and right now I would say it's essential. People won't die, but if you change them from within they might live for a cause, and in that scenario change is infective. It spreads.

We're at that step, still. Even after all this time. You can fight in many ways, and violence is the easiest. It takes the least amount of finesse and skill. It's the least effective. It's wrong to underestimate people's anger, but it's worse to give them the wrong outlet at the wrong time. That's why movements fizzle out. You have to give ideas time to spread, time to seep into the mass consciousness and take root. Then you defend that position with gorrila techniques if necessary. And you do it in a smart way, a tactical way.

That's violence at it's most effective, and how violence should be used. It's also not the method GOAT was talking about. I hate to see someone with obvious ability stuck in that way of thinking. Like I said, I'm not an ELF. I try to use my anger to promote change, a sort of mental violence. People are malleable in certain ways and I try to use that. I'm not afriad of the blood and guts technicalities, but I don't get excited about them, either. I see alot of that here, and even if it's all talk it has power. It attracts weakness.

I'm 100% for the idea of using both aspects. But I'm dead-set against the concept of violence first, of forced change. It just doesn't work. We're not there yet.

I think that in this we are in agreement.

QuoteOne of the biggest obstacles to helping women is abuse. First you have to realise that one out of four(these stats are old, Bella may have more recent ones)females are sexually abused before they hit 18. That is 25%. That fucks up everything, depending on the severity and length of the abuse. I know that many of the women that I tried to help, but could not, were not able to get past the guilt, pain, secretive nature of the abuse. I also know I have helped some women get past these kind of issues. If someone learned about felatio from their grandfather, you are going to be a lot more likely to lure them in with cookies. They need cookies and tea. They need to cry and learn to trust. They have a lot of crap to go through before they can even give a shit about humanity. You are in the place you are doing the things you do best. Please try to not assume that when you see a person with a plate of cookies that all they have to offer is a plate of cookies. WE HAVE PIE TOO. HAHAHAHAHAAA!!!(and a beer for Goat  )

Women's rights is a whoooole 'nother issue, and there's currently a backlash against it. It feels like we're fight some of the same old ground, over and over again.

However, it's still a good example of how movements can succeed given time and patience.

Quote from: HoshikoI think that in this we are in agreement.

So do I, oddly enough.  Sorry for saying that you said violence should never come into play, I should have read your post better.  I do believe it is necessary, however it is part of the closing gambit.  Any sooner and it falls apart, for far to many reasons.  I suggest looking at the system attack method I was talking about too.  That fourth generation style warfare, like guerrilla style, but taken to an economic level.  It also aims against infrastructure rather than civilains or soldiers, and is more effective in many respects (try http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/ for reading)

I think perhaps Turd was trying to get at the point that it only ever seems to be about the ELF stance.  OK, so we are not a stage where violence can be permitted, yet.  However, there does need to be discussion about it.  

Which I just realised is what we are doing now.

Duh! :wink:

Quote from: Hoshiko

Quotetime and patience.

the magic words.

QuoteOK, so the ELF has its methods. It can help people get "out of their minds" (to use the Neurocam phrase). But what does that do? Liberation in the self, for sure, but what good is that freedom while living under a tyrant?

Here's the thing - right now there's a dance going on, it's been going on since the beginning when power was discovered and used by one person against another. The oppressed become the oppressors because that is all they know. Turd, you may think "new boss = me" and see no problem with that, but try to understand why some of us do and it's nothing against you personally, but rather this: Oppression gets internalised. In each and every one of us lives an angry little dictator just waiting for its day in the sun.
Say you did suddenly have power tomorrow. What would happen? You'd go nuts and make the same mistakes every other powerful person has made. Empires always fall, ALWAYS, because the people at the top all have the same mental model they're operating from that says that:

There's always a top, there's always a bottom, and the ones at the bottom serve to make the ones at the top happy, and if they don't, they're fishfood.

As long as any of us operates under that model, it won't matter who is on top, because they'll be acting out that same old story and they'll become just as bad as whoever they were originally rebelling against.

Which is where mental liberation comes in. You have to get out of the mindset of power=tyranny BEFORE you seek power, so that you do not become your own enemy.

keep in mind that some of you are starting to take me WAY too literally.

did anyone seriously think I was advocating installing myself as some sort of Uber-Emperor of the World? If you ask me, that sounds like just about the worst job in the world.

honestly? I'd be willing to fight until I was the last man for nothing more grandiose than a position as Head of Customs. That'd be the slick shit...

8)

Quote from: Goatkeep in mind that some of you are starting to take me WAY too literally.

did anyone seriously think I was advocating installing myself as some sort of Uber-Emperor of the World? If you ask me, that sounds like just about the worst job in the world.

Well, you're the only one who really talks about such things with frequency....it's easier to write in specifics, and you're pretty darn specific. ;)

But I hear ya. Power's not all it's cracked up to be, and the smarter folks stay the hell away from it generally. I've had nightmares where I was elected to Congress.....icky...there's an assumption that if you study politics, it's so you can be a politician...far from it. I mean in my class I sat next to a chick who wanted to be a Whip and another who wanted to be President and here I am going "well, that's nice but I don't want all that responsibility and people digging into my past." I'm a very private person and it's not worth it to me to have that kind of weight to throw around if I can't even take a shit without someone blogging it - the highest I'd be interested in going would be Secretary of State, because they get to oversee elections, which I *am* interested in. Very. And they only get in the news when there's an election going on - the rest of the time, they get left alone.

Quote from: agent compassion

Which is where mental liberation comes in. You have to get out of the mindset of power=tyranny BEFORE you seek power, so that you do not become your own enemy.

Very true.  The thing is, I dont seek power.  I really dont.  Well, maybe, but not in the traditional way.  I seek power over myself, maybe as a consequence of getting very deep into martial arts.  But that sort of power is never my aim.  "He who dies with the most shiny toys is still dead."  

And there needs to be a balance.  The ELF sets the pieces into motion.  It does the groundwork, plants the seeds, etc  The LDD is the end product, both  the LDD and ELF are necessary to each other.  One without the other courts total failure.  That was the point that may have been lost in what I was saying earlier.  And we need a dialogue on both too, if anything is to be done.

Quote from: Scribe"He who dies with the most shiny toys is still dead."  

true, but he sure did have a lot of neat shiny toys to play with while he was alive...

8)

Quote from: Tontons Macoutskeep in mind that some of you are starting to take me WAY too literally.
8)

You take yourself pretty seriously, or at least you appear to.  You also take others too literally.  Why else would you get mad over pies, cookies and flirting?  If you don't have that stuff, there is nothing to fight for.
Pies, cookies, beer and sex.  Or was it sex drugs rock and roll.  I think I'm getting old.  oh well, not too old, though.  I think I'll go make some cookies :D

Quote from: eldora_avalon

Quote from: Tontons Macoutskeep in mind that some of you are starting to take me WAY too literally.
8)

You take yourself pretty seriously, or at least you appear to.  You also take others too literally.  Why else would you get mad over pies, cookies and flirting?  If you don't have that stuff, there is nothing to fight for.
Pies, cookies, beer and sex.  Or was it sex drugs rock and roll.  I think I'm getting old.  oh well, not too old, though.  I think I'll go make some cookies :D

THA COOKIE AND PIE SHIT IS AMMOYING, IN THE SAME WAY THAT HAVING A GNAT FLYING IN AND OUT OF YOUR EAR IS.

AND WE ALL KNOW THAT THA BUZZING OF THAT GNAT IS USUALLY THA LAST THING A PSYCHO HEARS BEFORE HE FIRES UP THA CHAINSAW.

CHEF D,
NEEDS A CHAINSAW.

I want some cookies.

:)

Nice avatar.

And a good discussion too. I may say something soon, but for now I'm too busy thinking about it.

Quote from: Chef

Quote from: eldora_avalon

Quote from: Tontons Macoutskeep in mind that some of you are starting to take me WAY too literally.
8)

You take yourself pretty seriously, or at least you appear to.  You also take others too literally.  Why else would you get mad over pies, cookies and flirting?  If you don't have that stuff, there is nothing to fight for.
Pies, cookies, beer and sex.  Or was it sex drugs rock and roll.  I think I'm getting old.  oh well, not too old, though.  I think I'll go make some cookies :D

THA COOKIE AND PIE SHIT IS AMMOYING, IN THE SAME WAY THAT HAVING A GNAT FLYING IN AND OUT OF YOUR EAR IS.

AND WE ALL KNOW THAT THA BUZZING OF THAT GNAT IS USUALLY THA LAST THING A PSYCHO HEARS BEFORE HE FIRES UP THA CHAINSAW.

CHEF D,
NEEDS A CHAINSAW.

too much forensic evidence to leave behind. Do what I did and have a friend who's an engineering student build a big-ass trebuchet. then you cna raing ownage down all over the place anonymously.

8)

::spits up on Chef::

Damnit! I've been hanging around with that baby too much!

::projectile vomits on Chef::

That's more like it!

:twisted:  8)

Quote from: Tontons Macouts

Quote from: Scribe"He who dies with the most shiny toys is still dead."  

true, but he sure did have a lot of neat shiny toys to play with while he was alive...

8)

Damn your materialism!  When I was young we had to make our own shiny toys...

Quote from: agent compassion::spits up on Chef::

Damnit! I've been hanging around with that baby too much!

::projectile vomits on Chef::

That's more like it!

:twisted:  8)

ya know, considering how much time people around here spend talking about how lame CHEF is and how they wish the trolls would go away, you all sure do go out of your way to keep fanning the flames....

just saying.

8)

8)

I consider them practice of a sort.

And I actually can projectile vomit under the right circumstances.

:twisted:

Quote from: Tontons Macouts

Quote from: agent compassion::spits up on Chef::

Damnit! I've been hanging around with that baby too much!

::projectile vomits on Chef::

That's more like it!

:twisted:  8)

ya know, considering how much time people around here spend talking about how lame CHEF is and how they wish the trolls would go away, you all sure do go out of your way to keep fanning the flames....

just saying.

8)

NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY TRY TO DENY IT, OPIEZ LOVE THA CHEF.

CHEF D,
IS HATED ON BY JEALOUS LESSER MORTALS EVERY DAY.

It's a good thing I'm not a mortal then....

:mrgreen:

:pwns Chef:

He only specified lesser mortals too.  Which means I am OK.

Quote from: LSFHe only specified lesser mortals too.  Which means I am OK.

SORRY, OPIE.  YUO ARE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN AN AMOEBA AND A TRILOBITE.

CHEF D,
MEREHUME TAXONOMIST.

Quote from: Chef

Quote from: LSFHe only specified lesser mortals too.  Which means I am OK.

SORRY, OPIE.  YUO ARE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN AN AMOEBA AND A TRILOBITE.

CHEF D,
MEREHUME TAXONOMIST.

At least you said sorry :(

Quote from: LSF

Quote from: Chef

Quote from: LSFHe only specified lesser mortals too.  Which means I am OK.

SORRY, OPIE.  YUO ARE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN AN AMOEBA AND A TRILOBITE.

CHEF D,
MEREHUME TAXONOMIST.

At least you said sorry :(

CHEF DIESEL = THE EPITOME OF MANNERS.

Quote from: agent compassion8)

I consider them practice of a sort.

And I actually can projectile vomit under the right circumstances.

:twisted:

That is a talent.  If you are ever attacked, use it.  The only time I ever did that was when I was pregnant.  Freaked me sister out in the OR.  She held up one of those teeny tiny worhtless thingies and I sprayed her.  It is funny, looking back on it :twisted:

It's funny hearing about it, too. :twisted:

Quote from: Pope T.Mangrove xvii

are you sure about never? the freedom riders? MLK? Ghandi? international sactions vs. Apartheid?

)

dude... MLK told his "people" how to take the violence... It' stakes towo to tango and they knew there would be violence.

Ghandi's "people " had doctors and nurses on the scene because of all the violence they knew would take place.( how enlightened to know that you're going to get your ass kicked and be prepared but at least they recognized that there would be violence other then some people who seem to ignore violences place in our cultures.)

International sanctions against aparthied?!?!? right because we all know that the poeple that were most directly effected by apartied were not taking any actions ( oh wait they were were'nt they violence on both sides there but the international communitty took sides and put down some sanctions... they chose one violent side over another... thumbs up.)

Quote from: agent compassion

Quote*pies Tontons Macouts in the face*

Not violence or pies...

Violence and pies

That's violence WITH pies, technically...

8)

::sheds a tear for the fallen pastry soldier::

Violence and pies is what I said.

so please explain to me how I can have violence with pies if I have violence and no pies.

Well, if you have a pie on the table while you're hitting someone over the head with a chair, that's violence AND pie. But if you use the pie itself to hit them, that's violence WITH pie. See?

The pie has to be the weapon.

I am all for the League of Dynamic Discord.

I am all for an alliance with the Erisian Liberation Front. Indeed, I am an ELF before sleeping (though they don't exist).

So anyways, I am more of an LDD myself. Maybe violence is inevitable. Maybe not.

I don't find the aim of the LDD to be for violence and revolution and so on, though at times, at certain scales it might be necessary.

Yes, I think it was Scribe that said something about attacking structures, and not people. Indeed! We need to attack the structures, destroy them somehow, and sometimes that might not involve attack on people.

We need to keep it all secret and so on. We don't want to sound like just another revolutionary group, we have to sound like we are already in control, trick people into drifting into our hands without their really knowing. That is, I guess, one of the ideas behind Operation: Mindfuck (though that is an ELF thing, I think the LDD takes the thing a bit further).

The real combat is against stupidity and one-mindedness, at least how I see it. We don't need to physically destroy the structures because the structures never existed in the first place, it just takes a little bit of a Magician's (like Houdini, not Crowley, though they kinda did the same thing) trick to make others understand.

So there are the guys with the bigger guns, but who will they shoot if they don't have an idea of what's going on until it's already happened?

Anyways, I am all for Forced Darwinism, we need evolution, not revolution. Revolution is just a full rotation back to the same place. We need a fictional leader where everyone writes who they want him to be. Excuse my bad Occultism, but this is the political HGA and what I am fighting for is the liberation of everyone's True Wills (it all means the same, though you might not like occultist terms).

Sounds abit like a Glitter bomb campaign is what you are after there.  Im guessing you are the Pedero at the Ocultforums too (same name and avatar)?

And what you say about revolution/evolution is true also.  I always preferred "uprisings" to revolutions anyway.

Quote from: ScribeSounds abit like a Glitter bomb campaign is what you are after there.  Im guessing you are the Pedero at the Ocultforums too (same name and avatar)?

And what you say about revolution/evolution is true also.  I always preferred "uprisings" to revolutions anyway.

Yeah, who are you in Occult Forums?

Well I mean, it kind of is a Glitter Bomb campaign, but it has to go farther (hence the evolution thing).

Yes. Uprisings are teh pwnage.

Im Scribe, but I mostly mope around reading stuff rather than post anything.   I only really discovered all teh Chaos magic scene about a month ago.   I have a few pdfs and me bookmarkd sites, but havent spent much time looking at them yet.  I could probably handle a sigil, just :wink:

So, by going further, are you thinking like culture jamming?  Going more into the mainstream media with it and suchlike?

I prefer Rotation to Revolution myself - but I'll zigzag on occasion just to change things up a bit.

I think I'm more of an ELFer than LDD, I do think every so often, though, that nothin' says lovin' like a brick upside the head.

Glitterbombs = the shiznit
Culture jamming = someday I will work for Adbusters those gods among men!

I am a propagandist, but not for THEM.

I advocate a gentler, more Buddhist approach to things. A mindfuck, but with foreplay and lube.

Quote from: ScribeIm Scribe, but I mostly mope around reading stuff rather than post anything.   I only really discovered all teh Chaos magic scene about a month ago.   I have a few pdfs and me bookmarkd sites, but havent spent much time looking at them yet.  I could probably handle a sigil, just :wink:

Cool. Hopefully you'll enjoy it.

Quote from: ScribeSo, by going further, are you thinking like culture jamming? Going more into the mainstream media with it and suchlike?

I don't think going 'mainstream' is an option. Unless you're doing something like propagating a rumor so far as to make it into the media, I think the LDD should stay 'underground'.

Anyways, it is not necessarily only culture jamming but more like gaining control over different fronts, Illuminati style, to propagate the r/evolution.

Anyways, the eventual destruction of today's society, I think, is necessary. And more jokes, too.

But I'm not too sure about that part. The way I see it though, is that instead of one point where we're all 'liberated', is to have an ongoing struggle, even after we've 'won' (the only advantage would be that no one would be hindering the evolution after the opposition is not fully in control anymore).

Quote from: agent compassionWell, if you have a pie on the table while you're hitting someone over the head with a chair, that's violence AND pie. But if you use the pie itself to hit them, that's violence WITH pie. See?

The pie has to be the weapon.

ok lets me get this staight... if I have no pie and I' mimine hitting them in the face with a oie I obviously am just enacting violence ...

where as if I have pie and I am not being violent I have only pie.

but in order to have violence with pie I need both violence and pie... or am I missing something?

Quote from: pedero
I don't think going 'mainstream' is an option. Unless you're doing something like propagating a rumor so far as to make it into the media, I think the LDD should stay 'underground'.

Well, I meant more on the ELF front, using tactics that woudl have more widespread effects on the population.  More of them, more frequently and more far reaching.

Quote from: pederoBut I'm not too sure about that part. The way I see it though, is that instead of one point where we're all 'liberated', is to have an ongoing struggle, even after we've 'won' (the only advantage would be that no one would be hindering the evolution after the opposition is not fully in control anymore).

I think we are heading into Zenarchist territory here, with that sort of thing.  Interesting, isnt it? :)

If you use the pie in a violent manner, that's violence WITH pie. See?

I hit you with a book. That's violence with a book. Even if there's a pie on the table nearby, it's not violence with a pie because the pie is not involved.

Quote from: agent compassionIf you use the pie in a violent manner, that's violence WITH pie. See?

I hit you with a book. That's violence with a book. Even if there's a pie on the table nearby, it's not violence with a pie because the pie is not involved.

so what yopu are saying is that in order to have violence with pie you need violence and pie.

so i showed a violent action and I had both... whats your issue again?

Quote from: agent compassion

Quote*pies Tontons Macouts in the face*

Not violence or pies...

Violence and pies

That's violence WITH pies, technically...

8)

::sheds a tear for the fallen pastry soldier::

right I say that is violence with pies technically but I stillhave the violence and pie. right?!?!?

It seems to me that you have forgoten your original post on the subject so here it is.


so without the pie I can't have violence and pies and even if my violence was WITH the pie I still had violence AND pie.

For it to be violence with pies you have to make the pie the weapon, that's all.

Quote from: agent compassionFor it to be violence with pies you have to make the pie the weapon, that's all.

so technically I nees violence and pies to have violence with pies?!?!?

Quoteso technically I nees violence and pies to have violence with pies?!?!?

Yes. And the violence must be committed with the pie...

what if one were to do violence unto the pie?

That would be violence against pies.

Which is a felony in some states. I don't know about Canada.

it is if you hit the pie with a politican's face.

If its the Queen's pie, it is technically High treason.

Politicians claim to love pie. but as soon as you hit one with a pie they get all mad. and the pie will sue you for damages because of the trauma of touching a politician so intimately.

gahhhh i'm soo tired i can't even type. but to much work to d otosleep yet.
headache all day long it's finally gone but too lte.

:evil:

i'll trade you i have to be up for work in 4 hours, i'll eb tired and you can be not tired. deaL/
?

I wish.

But ths essay isn't gonna write itself.

This teacher pisses me off, he gives the n00bs an easy paper and a whole week extra to do it in, but the people who get the hard papers(like me) have them due thursday. BASTARD.

Tis the way of life.  I actually only have 3 hours today at Uni.  I might even go to the poker club tonight (so I can find out what set they use and buy copies for the next competition).

I am all done with my CR requirement after this term
And next term I am not taking ANY POLITICS AT ALL

I'm gonna get some eeeeasy classes
And get a part time job
Oh yeah

IMPROV BABY!!!!!!

The Prof can SUCK IT!!!!

1800 posts :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock: damn!!!!

Im doing that with Psychology.  Its international Relations and Philsophy all the way for me!  I so sorted my timetable this semester.  2 out of 5 days I dont have to get up until 12.  And I managed to get easier modules.

NExt term hopefully, ifthe fucking seniors and postbacs don't get it first, I have this schedule planned

morning: circuit training, yoga
afternoon: improv II, drawing

booya!

I'm thinking about becoming a politician and pissing people off.

For the pie.

You'd make a good politicians Hoshi. :)

I would be a politician except for the part where I have to give a damn about my constituents. I just don't.

:twisted:

Well, not that much. I mean I love humanity but it's more of an abstract feeling - specific people are pretty fucking annoying, and I can't see myself being very faithful to the principal-agent relationship for very long, I'd be like "Hahaaa! I just voted to abolish marshmallows, and YOU voted for me, muthafuckazzzz!"

Quote from: HoshikoI'm thinking about becoming a politician and pissing people off.

For the pie.

Pie is a great and noble cause but I suspect that you'd get more pissed off than you pissed others off. From what I've seen of politicians and the bureacrats that surround them (and I used to work for a semi-government organisation so I got to work with a few) you either become one of them or they consume your soul.

Also, Hoshi, I've noticed that politicians don't get much pie really. I mean, at least on the campaigns I've seen or been in, there are a lot of:

-Pancake breakfasts
-Spaghetti feeds
-Steak frys
-Clif bars
-Vegan marshmallows
-Chocolate cake
-Potlucks

But no pie, at least not as far as I have seen.  :( Which is dumb, because election season is mostly in the summertime, when there are berries all over the place just BEGGING to be made into pie.


:roll:

The only kind of pie they get is the other kind :wink: But no one has yet picked up on the pie streudel thing, so, that tells you how much the men here really like their pie.  Oops, or women, I know there are some women who like pie :wink:

I meant pie in the "Throw a pie at her, the villian!" sense.

My first rule of business would be to spearhead the "Eradicate gratuitous manhole covers" campaign.

For the children.

Quote from: Big Baby JesusWU TANG IS FOR THE CHILDREN!

you always get to that one before I do...

:lol:

::bows::

Is it just me or does LMNO look like the Mayor from Tom Goes To The Mayor?

8)

A blast from the past.

The OP is amazing, but the responses from Eldora illustrate precisely why the GDCW occurred.

Great post LMNO, though I think I lean more toward ECH's view.

OH, so that was Eldora..

duly noted.

Fuck, I was a long-winded little shit back then, wasn't I?

Quote from: LMNO, PhD on June 16, 2011, 07:32:24 PM
Fuck, I was a long-winded little shit back then, wasn't I?

Nothing wrong with that, we were all finding our style at the time.

But then came the inevitable derail for fucking cookies & pie.  This is partially why I'm so hard on The Commander when he starts that shit.

Quote from: Rip City Hustle on February 11, 2005, 05:34:20 PM

Quote from: Robert DeNiroare you talkin' to me?

are you talking to ME?!?

seriously though...

first of all, I commend you on your well-written and well-thought out post. And I hope that you know that when I make generalizations such as "all you fakes" or "you so-called discordians", you are NOT one of those I am addressing. I have as much respect for you as I can have for someone who I know only as a collection of pixels. But there's a problem. While those of you who could be termed "ELF" have the cerebral bent and philosophical wherewithal to offer olive branches and entertain thoughts of a united discordia exerting its influence on the sleeping masses, those of us who could betermed "LDD" are of the opinion that the time for words and philosophies has long passed. We have come to believe that humanity has proven over and over again that the only way anyone listens to anything is through force. While there are those who would posit that humanity is not deserving of our efforts, that the experiment has failed and those of us who have awakened to some tiny degree should abandon our sleeping brethren and fend for ourselves, I can not be counted among them. Humanity may be blind, it may be ignorant, it may, in fact, have failed, but I do not believe it is beyond redemption...blah blah blah shoulda stopped right there because goddamn was I ever wrong about THAT.

fixed.