Principia Discordia

The Beatniks were before the Hippies.  I am not sure of the distinction.  Except the Beatniks were a smaller group, the hippies attracted a lot of people who eventually became squares.  We seem to throw the word 'hippie' around here without really thinking about it.  I don't want to talk about what any website or book has to say, I want to talk about what it means to us.  Some of us our old enough to remember the last time macrame was popular.  For some of us it never went out of style.  

My husband and I wear our hair long, does that make us hippies?  He volunteered for the Navy in 1975, never realising where that would take him.  Not knowing when he was done serving his country people would call him a baby killer and spit on him.  He gets all snotty if someone calls him a hippie, his standard answer is that he is not a hippie, he works and bathes.   :roll:  

Those are his issues.  What are ours.  We, the people who post on this forum, seem to be people who do not fit neatly into society's categories of being this or that.  Are we hippies?  Beats?  We all seem to be counter culture to some extent.  Are we going to fail as our predecessors did?  By bickering amongst ourselves?  By getting derailed by stupid pranks?  Sticking apart has its limits.  

If we must label each other, let's come up with something for ourselves.  Many other groups before us have been labeled by others, we could come up with our own.  Short of that, let's quit using labels that are not derogatory in a derogatory manner.

DISCORDIANS != HIPPIES OR BEATNIKS.

DISCORDIANS = DISCORDIANS.

CHEF DIESEL,
THINKS ONE NAME IS ENOUGH.

I suppose I could be labelled as part of the miscellaneous counter culture, but Ive always been quite a revolutionary at heart, so that is where the vote went.  You bunch of hippies.

Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy
We all seem to be counter culture to some extent.  

Are we going to fail as our predecessors did?  By bickering amongst ourselves?

1.  Actually, we're Acultural.  We do not actually fit into ANY culture.

2.  Obviously.  By the time anything gets large enough to gain a name, it's already on the road to implosion or commercialization.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy
We all seem to be counter culture to some extent.  

Are we going to fail as our predecessors did?  By bickering amongst ourselves?

1.  Actually, we're Acultural.  We do not actually fit into ANY culture.

2.  Obviously.  By the time anything gets large enough to gain a name, it's already on the road to implosion or commercialization.

So that's why things go all caflooey here and why the Mirror crashed, hhhmmm....makes sense.   That's what happened to the Beatniks, by the time they got that name they were all onto something else, then the hippies came in and tried to duplicate the process, some of them succedded and some of them didn't.

Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy
We all seem to be counter culture to some extent.  

Are we going to fail as our predecessors did?  By bickering amongst ourselves?

1.  Actually, we're Acultural.  We do not actually fit into ANY culture.

2.  Obviously.  By the time anything gets large enough to gain a name, it's already on the road to implosion or commercialization.

So that's why things go all caflooey here and why the Mirror crashed, hhhmmm....makes sense.   That's what happened to the Beatniks, by the time they got that name they were all onto something else, then the hippies came in and tried to duplicate the process, some of them succedded and some of them didn't.

You can't force this type of thing, and you have to put up with the occasional jerk that comes along.  People who derail threads, for example.

However, attempting to rein in Discordian behavior is the fastest way to kill it.

Mirror was an attempt to duplicate the success of this forum.  In fact, for a while, we called it "PD Reloaded".  Unfortunately for Osidian, he gave mod powers to an attention whore, who tried to FORCE the board into what he envisioned...thus wrecking it.

The same thing always happens to subcultures, it's only a matter of time.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
The same thing always happens to subcultures, it's only a matter of time.

Waddya mean?

Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
The same thing always happens to subcultures, it's only a matter of time.

Waddya mean?

All subcultures ultimately disintegrate.  With the hippies, it happened due to a combination of three factors:

1.  Emotional fatigue:  The war went on and on, and many of the hippies just got worn out.  The weirder ones (Abbie Hoffman, etc) kept on, but they weren't really hippies.

2.  Drugs:  The hippie movement sort of degenerated into a haze of drugs, and the original message became obscured.

3.  The end of the Vietnam war:  With no draft, many "hippies" saw no further reason to "drop out".

With discordians, it will probably be orthodoxy.

Or silly shit concerning pies and cookies.

Quote from: The Good Reverend RogerOr silly shit concerning pies and cookies.

And flirting :roll:

Quote from: Scribe

Quote from: The Good Reverend RogerOr silly shit concerning pies and cookies.

And flirting :roll:

Naw.  That's pretty much net standard.  It's part of the medium, not the culture.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
All subcultures ultimately disintegrate.  With the hippies, it happened due to a combination of three factors:

1.  Emotional fatigue:  The war went on and on, and many of the hippies just got worn out.  The weirder ones (Abbie Hoffman, etc) kept on, but they weren't really hippies.

2.  Drugs:  The hippie movement sort of degenerated into a haze of drugs, and the original message became obscured.

3.  The end of the Vietnam war:  With no draft, many "hippies" saw no further reason to "drop out".

With discordians, it will probably be orthodoxy.

Or silly shit concerning pies and cookies.

OK, I see that, 1, 2 3.  And I don't see orthodoxy being a problem because we can't agree on anything long enough to have it become orthodox, although it may happen some day. :?

But I disagree about the pie and cookies.  That and the beer is what is keeping us together  :D

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Scribe

Quote from: The Good Reverend RogerOr silly shit concerning pies and cookies.

And flirting :roll:

Naw.  That's pretty much net standard.  It's part of the medium, not the culture.

But, the Discordian movement or whatever it is, is growing with the internet.  It wouldn't exist as it is today without the internet.

Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
All subcultures ultimately disintegrate.  With the hippies, it happened due to a combination of three factors:

1.  Emotional fatigue:  The war went on and on, and many of the hippies just got worn out.  The weirder ones (Abbie Hoffman, etc) kept on, but they weren't really hippies.

2.  Drugs:  The hippie movement sort of degenerated into a haze of drugs, and the original message became obscured.

3.  The end of the Vietnam war:  With no draft, many "hippies" saw no further reason to "drop out".

With discordians, it will probably be orthodoxy.

Or silly shit concerning pies and cookies.

OK, I see that, 1, 2 3.  And I don't see orthodoxy being a problem because we can't agree on anything long enough to have it become orthodox, although it may happen some day. :?

But I disagree about the pie and cookies.  That and the beer is what is keeping us together  :D

1.  Orthodoxy can take more than one form.

2.  Really?  I think it's just a fluff generator, but that's just my opinion.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
1.  Orthodoxy can take more than one form.

2.  Really?  I think it's just a fluff generator, but that's just my opinion.

1  Okey dokey.

2  I already did this over there on that other day.  Some people need cookies and pies.  They have been so fucked over you have to get them to care about something, anything.  The easiest way to do that is to get them to care about themselves first, then get them to care about something else, anything else.  Cookies and pies make people feel a little better.  Of course, some people just need to be stabbed and or thrown out of windows  :twisted:

Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
1.  Orthodoxy can take more than one form.

2.  Really?  I think it's just a fluff generator, but that's just my opinion.

1  Okey dokey.

2  I already did this over there on that other day.  Some people need cookies and pies.  They have been so fucked over you have to get them to care about something, anything.  The easiest way to do that is to get them to care about themselves first, then get them to care about something else, anything else.  Cookies and pies make people feel a little better.  Of course, some people just need to be stabbed and or thrown out of windows  :twisted:

2.  I suppose.  Cookies and pies just annoy me, though.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
2.  I suppose.  Cookies and pies just annoy me, though.

How about if we include beer along with the cookies and pie, would that help?

Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
2.  I suppose.  Cookies and pies just annoy me, though.

How about if we include beer along with the cookies and pie, would that help?

Not really.  Virtual beer gives new meaning to the word "lite".

This forum used to be fairly neatly divided between word-gamers/pie freaks & the real weirdos (back when there were only about 4 sub-forums).

The lines have blurred, now, and you can hardly get started on some weird ranting, when someone comes along and starts babbling about pie.

Or maybe I'm just in a bad mood, now.  You know who you can thank.

can i interupt and make a distinction? (discourse on the redeeming value of pie/cookies will resume shortly)

Pre-hippy counter culture = Beats.
Post-Beat fluffies who confused Kerouac/Ginsberg/Burroughs et al with Parisian Existentialist movement = Beatniks.

 The stereotype Beatnik (beret, goatee beard, sunglasses, black polo-neck, bongo playing etc) was a mish mash of be-bop fashion, Sartre, coffee, gitanes & fluffiness and largely a creation of the media to lambast the burgeoning counter-cultural movements of the East & West coasts of the day.

 If anyone suggested that Burroughs was a beatnik, he'd probably shoot them and rightly so.

 [We now return you to "cookies n' pie - medicine or meh?"]

Quote from: The Open Barcan i interupt and make a distinction? (discourse on the redeeming value of pie/cookies will resume shortly)

Pre-hippy counter culture = Beats.
Post-Beat fluffies who confused Kerouac/Ginsberg/Burroughs et al with Parisian Existentialist movement = Beatniks.

 The stereotype Beatnik (beret, goatee beard, sunglasses, black polo-neck, bongo playing etc) was a mish mash of be-bop fashion, Sartre, coffee, gitanes & fluffiness and largely a creation of the media to lambast the burgeoning counter-cultural movements of the East & West coasts of the day.

 If anyone suggested that Burroughs was a beatnik, he'd probably shoot them and rightly so.

 [We now return you to "cookies n' pie - medicine or meh?"]

This is the sort of discussion I was trying to start, thank you OB, you can expect more of, oh, nevermind. :wink:

if i wasn't a bar, i'd be a beat.

Quote from: The Open Barif i wasn't a bar, i'd be a beat.

The beats were created by the jello-mold conformity of the 50s, which created so many socio-economic rejects, that it became fashionable to be one.

Kinda like what's happening now.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: The Open Barif i wasn't a bar, i'd be a beat.

The beats were created by the jello-mold conformity of the 50s, which created so many socio-economic rejects, that it became fashionable to be one.

Kinda like what's happening now.

Yep, I wonder what THEY(tm) will call us.  Should be coming up with a name any time now.  Of course, they would have to admit how many people are unemployed or undermeployed first, wouldn't THEY(tm)

Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: The Open Barif i wasn't a bar, i'd be a beat.

The beats were created by the jello-mold conformity of the 50s, which created so many socio-economic rejects, that it became fashionable to be one.

Kinda like what's happening now.

Yep, I wonder what THEY(tm) will call us.  Should be coming up with a name any time now.  Of course, they would have to admit how many people are unemployed or undermeployed first, wouldn't THEY(tm)

Why?  They didn't have to last time.

What will they call us?  Americuh-hating terrarist anarchists, of course.

THen they'll throw us in Gitmo, and forget about the whole thing.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: The Open Barif i wasn't a bar, i'd be a beat.

The beats were created by the jello-mold conformity of the 50s, which created so many socio-economic rejects, that it became fashionable to be one.

Kinda like what's happening now.

Yep, I wonder what THEY(tm) will call us.  Should be coming up with a name any time now.  Of course, they would have to admit how many people are unemployed or undermeployed first, wouldn't THEY(tm)

Why?  They didn't have to last time.

What will they call us?  Americuh-hating terrarist anarchists, of course.

THen they'll throw us in Gitmo, and forget about the whole thing.

I don't think they have thrown any Americans into Gitmo, except for that one guy who had joined the Taliban.  But, wait a sec, which country is on your passport?  We seem to be treating Canada less and less like a Sovereign country, so you might be fucked.

Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger

Quote from: The Open Barif i wasn't a bar, i'd be a beat.

The beats were created by the jello-mold conformity of the 50s, which created so many socio-economic rejects, that it became fashionable to be one.

Kinda like what's happening now.

Yep, I wonder what THEY(tm) will call us.  Should be coming up with a name any time now.  Of course, they would have to admit how many people are unemployed or undermeployed first, wouldn't THEY(tm)

Why?  They didn't have to last time.

What will they call us?  Americuh-hating terrarist anarchists, of course.

THen they'll throw us in Gitmo, and forget about the whole thing.

I don't think they have thrown any Americans into Gitmo, except for that one guy who had joined the Taliban.  But, wait a sec, which country is on your passport?  We seem to be treating Canada less and less like a Sovereign country, so you might be fucked.

I'm dual.  However, you are mistaken about one thing:  So far, 6 American citizens have been held without due process.  Only one was released.

Boo.

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
I'm dual.  However, you are mistaken about one thing:  So far, 6 American citizens have been held without due process.  Only one was released.

Boo.

What were the deals with the other ones?  I heard about someone who live in Canada, I forget his nationality, I think he was Syrian, he was traveling and during a layover he was picked up and even though the Canadians ask the US not to, they sent him to Syria.

Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of Alchemy

Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
I'm dual.  However, you are mistaken about one thing:  So far, 6 American citizens have been held without due process.  Only one was released.

Boo.

What were the deals with the other ones?  I heard about someone who live in Canada, I forget his nationality, I think he was Syrian, he was traveling and during a layover he was picked up and even though the Canadians ask the US not to, they sent him to Syria.

John Walker Lindh = Gitmo (actually, now in Ft Leavenworth).

Anderson = released.

Padillo, Hamje, Lake, Hamilton = Naval brig in PA.

Let's see, I'm a geek, so I guess that makes me a square...TO THA EXTREME! \m/

Quote from: CannedLizardLet's see, I'm a geek, so I guess that makes me a square...TO THA EXTREME! \m/

Not necessarily, probably not, really.

Quote from: CannedLizardLet's see, I'm a geek, so I guess that makes me a square...TO THA EXTREME! \m/

\mm/

Too much Geek for one Hand, Big Brother.

i'm a pot head gamer who is also severely religious. i liek pie and ilike articles, when they aren;t too long to read on screen(my printer is int eh box and i dopn't ahve any room on eitehr hte extension cords that's plugged into the wall, teh power bar that's plugged into teh extension cord, or the powerbar that's plugged into teh power bar, but don't ph34r for my safety, for mso tof teh plugged ins tuff is inactive/turned off etc. oddly the ladnlord was mroe worried abotu the insulated extension cord beign rolled up neatly thanthe power bar being plugged into teh power bar...

oh yeah i thnk asburdity is integral, alogn with confusion and stuff that yall knwo i'm about. i aint much into quanitfying it, for reason roger stated abvo esomewhere. i'm not much into letting it turn into a subculture consumer package. also love thy enemy, adn kill medeo!

i don't ahve much against pranksterism, did that back in hs, nto so much nowadays, for oen reason ro another, perhaps teh taoism, perhaps the jesusism. msotly i like to get stoend and thnk heavily, or think heavily when i'm not stoned. or at work or onw alks, or whiel starign at walls, or goign to sleep. it's all good, spoketh the brown sage to the lynch mob throwing rocks at him.

there should be more options, like nihilist, discArdian, culture jammer, punk, geek, etc.  i think those are far more chaotic and fun than hippie or beatnik.

anyway, i don't see discordianism becoming recuperated anytime soon.  it's just too weird.  it was easy to destroy the hippies because it was a subculture that quickly became predictable.  just open a shop near haight-ashbury with a sign that says "peace and love" and try to figure out the difference between escapist future capitalists and revolutionaries/weirdos/whatever.

it seems that punk rock has done a good job of consistently rejecting the mainstream and staying as strong as ever.  sure, you've got the sex pistols, green day, and blink 182, but they never managed to bring down the boat.  punk rock is a good example of counterculture managing to keep going and redefining itself consistently.  of course, there's still a huge area of valid critique for punk.  much of it i agree with.  but i think it's worth looking at and seeing where it succeeds, and where it fails.

just some thoughts.  cookies and pie are both boring.  i'm going to go eat pizza.

I dont like the idea of trying to get myself to fit into some sort of prescribed personality archetype. Isnt that something that would rob me of a fair amount of my individuality?

Just a thought.

Quote from: Anonymous
anyway, i don't see discordianism becoming recuperated anytime soon.  it's just too weird.  it was easy to destroy the hippies because it was a subculture that quickly became predictable.  just open a shop near haight-ashbury with a sign that says "peace and love" and try to figure out the difference between escapist future capitalists and revolutionaries/weirdos/whatever.

if you judge discordianism by what's avaialble here, i'm afraid you're misunderestimating it a great deal. this is a drop in teh bucket comapred ot the interent, and i have no doubt that's a dorp int ehbucket comaped to what's not on the internet.

i use soem words to define myself in hoem bse so to say, on accoutn, well i go pretty far out in my meditatiosn and whatnot, ehre and there, it's good to come abck home and then spy out anotehr horizon to see what's there and check it out.

hehehehehehehe

I started this to make a point, we are not a homogeneous group.  The biggest vote right now is for revolutionary, the second biggest vote is for annoyance to all of the above  There seems to be a lot of talk about what is or is not discordian behavior.  What we should or should not do.  If I wanted a bunch of should's, I would go to Church.  A really crappy Church.  Even a good Church doesn't should all over it's congregation.

what we really shoudldn;t do is piss nito the wind, unless we like wet smelly legs. also we shoudl send me a bunch of beer, and stuff.

I am all of the above.

Just not all at once.

8)

I am a poster girl with no poster.

I am 32 flavors and then some.

It changes daily. If you're not reinventing yourself and pushing your boundaries, what's the point?

Quote from: horab fibslager

Quote from: Anonymous
anyway, i don't see discordianism becoming recuperated anytime soon.  it's just too weird.  it was easy to destroy the hippies because it was a subculture that quickly became predictable.  just open a shop near haight-ashbury with a sign that says "peace and love" and try to figure out the difference between escapist future capitalists and revolutionaries/weirdos/whatever.

if you judge discordianism by what's avaialble here, i'm afraid you're misunderestimating it a great deal. this is a drop in teh bucket comapred ot the interent, and i have no doubt that's a dorp int ehbucket comaped to what's not on the internet.

If I judged discordianism by what I've seen here recently, I'd give up on it.

There's no category up there for what I am....

same here.

Well, I guess I should have included smartass as one of the options for Hugh and Horab  :wink:  Or maybe you guys could do your own poll.  Annoyance has taken the lead, btw. :shock:  :twisted:

mark me down as 'not in any category'. damn it.


the category that can be spoken of
is not the true category.

i voted saure, in hour of huey luey's hip to be square, and that guys monologie onthe subject in american pyscho.

I'm the founder of Concerned Parents Against Teen Vigilantilism or CoPaTeVism.

I also enjoy no knowing what the hell I am.

Quote from: YahtometI'm the founder of Concerned Parents Against Teen Vigilantilism or CoPaTeVism.

I also enjoy no knowing what the hell I am.

are you a fruti or a vegetable? animal or mineral?

You can play the "labels are bad" game all day, and I'm just going to do the mature thing and admit I'm a stupid hippie who craves being called a stupid hippie.

Quote from: Chaplin_Sinatra_FonzarellYou can play the "labels are bad" game all day, and I'm just going to do the mature thing and admit I'm a stupid hippie who craves being called a stupid hippie.

stupid hippy!

Quote from: Chaplin_Sinatra_FonzarellYou can play the "labels are bad" game all day, and I'm just going to do the mature thing and admit I'm a stupid hippie who craves being called a stupid hippie.

Funny, I always thought you were a fairly smart hippie, but I shall humor you, thusly,


stupid hippie, stupid hippie, stupid hippie, stupid hippie, stupid hippie, stupid hippie, stupid hippie, stupid hippie, stupid hippie, stupid hippie, stupid hippie, stupid hippie, stupid hippie, stupid hippie, stupid hippie, hehehehehehehe

I've just started a new broad-based coalition called UFPBJ.  I'm sure you can figure it out.