Blarg!
bravo. bravo. i think i finally get what you've been talking about all this time.
I have been getting to the same conclusions lately. Emperor Bush, if not elected, will only be replaced with another emperor. And no matter how many musical chairs we play with political views, cultural/counter-cultural memes, lifestyles, or even strange Eris-worshipping religions, we are still in the mess, frantically scraping about for some new label to declare ourselves seperate and distinct from that-which-we-loath. We are like unwashed anarchists whose greatest act of social defiance is in stupidly trashing more windows and getting the moses knocked out of them by the police. We are like the yuppies who buy Che Guevara T-shirts and believe ourselves to be socially conscious because we listen to Rage Against the Machine and refuse to eat meat. We are like headless chickens running about in the moments before we run out of blood. We claim to be seekers after the truth, but when we find it, do we merely cover it over with Erisian-undogmatic-sounding dogmas?
Kiddies,...we are in trouble if we want to adhere to the principles of free thought which is our only hope of freedom. Why? Well, frankly I look around and I see much talk of freedom and creativity and mindfucking and Eris and truths, but I don't see much of the freedom that everyone yaps about. We may have free minds, but take a good look around you. Our world is being clusterfucked over and the vast majority of people's minds are locked in fear and stupidity. They are the majority and they do and will impinge upon whatever schemes for freedom you may think you can effect. To ignore this is to commit a fatal mistake and to nail the lid over the coffin of your imagined freedom before you can even try to force it upon the world at large. You can yell all you want, but if it isn't on TV, nobody's listening...and if someone did listen, you'd be another terrorist suspect torturee in training somewhere under Don Rumsfeld's ass. Believe that.
The state is a state of mind!
If the determination of property as any type of object is purely a subjective frame, then so to is one's perception of the state. The state is always in anarchy because we are always chosing to abdicate our responsibility.
:P :P :P :P :P
Quote from: Egghead Blue Slartibravo. bravo. i think i finally get what you've been talking about all this time.
Then you're a step ahead of the rev...:D
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSCI have been getting to the same conclusions lately. Emperor Bush, if not elected, will only be replaced with another emperor. And no matter how many musical chairs we play with political views, cultural/counter-cultural memes, lifestyles, or even strange Eris-worshipping religions, we are still in the mess, frantically scraping about for some new label to declare ourselves seperate and distinct from that-which-we-loath. We are like unwashed anarchists whose greatest act of social defiance is in stupidly trashing more windows and getting the moses knocked out of them by the police. We are like the yuppies who buy Che Guevara T-shirts and believe ourselves to be socially conscious because we listen to Rage Against the Machine and refuse to eat meat. We are like headless chickens running about in the moments before we run out of blood. We claim to be seekers after the truth, but when we find it, do we merely cover it over with Erisian-undogmatic-sounding dogmas?
Kiddies,...we are in trouble if we want to adhere to the principles of free thought which is our only hope of freedom. Why? Well, frankly I look around and I see much talk of freedom and creativity and mindfucking and Eris and truths, but I don't see much of the freedom that everyone yaps about. We may have free minds, but take a good look around you. Our world is being clusterfucked over and the vast majority of people's minds are locked in fear and stupidity. They are the majority and they do and will impinge upon whatever schemes for freedom you may think you can effect. To ignore this is to commit a fatal mistake and to nail the lid over the coffin of your imagined freedom before you can even try to force it upon the world at large. You can yell all you want, but if it isn't on TV, nobody's listening...and if someone did listen, you'd be another terrorist suspect torturee in training somewhere under Don Rumsfeld's ass. Believe that.
10/10!
CAN I GET A WITNESS!?
Quote from: St. TrollaxThe state is a state of mind!
If the determination of property as any type of object is purely a subjective frame, then so to is one's perception of the state. The state is always in anarchy because we are always chosing to abdicate our responsibility.
:P :P :P :P :P
Perhaps in Australia, but I doubt it.
The State is the barrel of a rifle. This is the underlying truth of ALL governments.
Quote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Perhaps in Australia, but I doubt it.
The State is the barrel of a rifle. This is the underlying truth of ALL governments.
Who imbues the rifle with power?
They separate us and we become afraid individually...
they can kill you, yes... but are you afraid of that?
How many can they kill and get away with?
1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000?
every group on the entire planet is at this point in history saying that its values, freedoms and way of life are continually being undermined? Who is benefitting?
We're all paranoid.
Thuddites.....
~Zen Trollax~
Yes, Yes! But what if you really enjoy bashing your head against a wall?
The state only has power because people choose to act as if it has power. I choose to act on Broadway.
I choose to participate in the constitution of my country of my own free will...
That way I don't always have to worry about every facet of the political fabric...
Mind a blind monkey with a coke habit could do better... but you know...
Nobody good enough wants the job because they deride the position...
~Five Trollax~
Quote from: St. TrollaxQuote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Perhaps in Australia, but I doubt it.
The State is the barrel of a rifle. This is the underlying truth of ALL governments.
Who imbues the rifle with power?
They separate us and we become afraid individually...
they can kill you, yes... but are you afraid of that?
How many can they kill and get away with?
1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000?
every group on the entire planet is at this point in history saying that its values, freedoms and way of life are continually being undermined? Who is benefitting?
We're all paranoid.
Thuddites.....
~Zen Trollax~
Trollax, the state can kill as many people as they want and get away with it. In the meantime they will bribe the survivors into complacency with ditzy consumer products and cozy cubicle jobs with an occasional odd weekend of fucking thrown in. Those of you who believe the state is just a social or mental fiction should not forget that the state has very real power that is not imagined. Some of us might not want to cooperate but we are swamped by the shear numbers of those who willingly comply. The state tolerates us precisely because, either it doesn't see us yet, or we pose no real threat (and can thus be coopted into being yet another lifestyle choice on the stripmall market of idiocy). The state's power comes from the the fact that they can legitimate their own use of violence against others. They have the weapons and the funds and the minds to enforce their dictates. And let's face it, there is not much we can do about it. We can free our minds. But then what would we really do if the Agents came knocking at our door? The state could simply vanish any one of us with impugnity. To be realistic, exactly what can we do about that?
well what is the red pill? and how to we exit the matrix completely?
I am starting to think that there is no exit.
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSCI am starting to think that there is no exit.
Don't get sartre on me now Hugh, Hell is the self, not other people...
If the state is mental and it's mental power is enforced physically where is the key? Is it mental or physical? If not revolution what is it?
The solution is in keeping one's lid open. Whether or not we can escape...who knows? Everyone has theories but who has really the understanding or the experience?
The solution is also keeping a lid on the lips so that one doesn't end up in Don Rumsfeld's torture funhouse for Terrorist Suspects, otherwise known as Rum's House of Bung.
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSCThe solution is in keeping one's lid open. Whether or not we can escape...who knows? Everyone has theories but who has really the understanding or the experience?
The one who has gone through it perhaps?
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSCThe solution is also keeping a lid on the lips so that one doesn't end up in Don Rumsfeld's torture funhouse for Terrorist Suspects, otherwise known as Rum's House of Bung.
To be free I must renounce my freedom in order that I may be safe?
NEVER!
Quote from: St. TrollaxQuote from: The Good Reverend Roger
Perhaps in Australia, but I doubt it.
The State is the barrel of a rifle. This is the underlying truth of ALL governments.
Who imbues the rifle with power?
They separate us and we become afraid individually...
they can kill you, yes... but are you afraid of that?
How many can they kill and get away with?
1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 1,000,000?
every group on the entire planet is at this point in history saying that its values, freedoms and way of life are continually being undermined? Who is benefitting?
We're all paranoid.
Thuddites.....
~Zen Trollax~
Stalin killed 50,000,000 of his own people, and no one lifted a hand.
Quote from: St. TrollaxQuote from: St. Hugh, KSCI am starting to think that there is no exit.
Don't get sartre on me now Hugh, Hell is the self, not other people...
If the state is mental and it's mental power is enforced physically where is the key? Is it mental or physical? If not revolution what is it?
While a great majority of the state is mental, enough of it is physical to be dangerous.
If the uniform and gun are real, and the cop is a social fiction, the gun can still kill you, or toss you in a chain link cube.
Quote from: St. TrollaxQuote from: St. Hugh, KSCThe solution is in keeping one's lid open. Whether or not we can escape...who knows? Everyone has theories but who has really the understanding or the experience?
The one who has gone through it perhaps?
Quote from: St. Hugh, KSCThe solution is also keeping a lid on the lips so that one doesn't end up in Don Rumsfeld's torture funhouse for Terrorist Suspects, otherwise known as Rum's House of Bung.
To be free I must renounce my freedom in order that I may be safe?
NEVER!
No, you don't have to do that...yet.
However, you must also realize that, at least here, you have to show some degree of caution.
Someone in RAW's Schroedingers trilogy said:
"Screw the humans! I'm on to their game! I'm going to be free, but not let them know it!"
Exactly!
If you let on too much about your freedom, people will just simply silence you while making damn sure that you, as a threat to the established order, will not longer be such a threat.
We can think that the state is only imagined, but then the collective imaginations of society will impinge upon us anyway through very physical processes. They don't have to kill us, yet. There are worse things than death.
Thinking freely is one step towards freedom. But how to get out of the morass without removing oneself from the world? Questions lead to more questions. But in the project of becoming free, it is often wise not to shout from the rooftops, especially since the state and the people who believe in it own the rooftops.
I am not a crook. Repeat I am not a crook.
I keep writing out a long response to this thread, hoping to add something meaninful and perhaps even profound.
But it just ain't in the cards tonight.
I think I'll settle with "Zoit, Narf, Egad!"
Secession and evolution. Preferably outside of the solar system. Of course one could argue that evolution would result just another more complex cycle of entrapment, but it's worth a shot.
Or I've been reading too much SciFi again... :shock:
We need to be beat so senseless that we don't care if we're beaten anymore. If we can just completely accept the fact that it's hopeless, and keep on going, there will be no stopping us.