I had a fucked-up dream. I dreamed that after all these years of thinking I was the only one who understood how thoroughly FUCKED everything is, I finally encountered people like me. people who understood. people who weren't afraid to stand up and yell to the teeming masses "Hey! this shit is FUCKED UP!" People who wouldn't be afraid to challenge the idiocy of those in charge. people who wouldn't hesitate to piss into the prevailing wind of conventional wisdom (an ill wind, to be sure) if that became necessary.
but then....then my dream turned into a nightmare.
the time came. the call went out.
NO ONE answered. Not one single person. I tried to leave, to return to my previous state of isolation, but it was impossible. I was rooted to one spot, held powerless under the weight of the collective will of my "comrades". Everyone sat there drinking and laughing as the world burned around them, and this was NOT the clean-burning fire of renewal and rebirth...no, this was the slow, choking burn of THE END. In a panic, I began screaming at my captors.
"Don't you see? If we don't DO something, everything we love will be broken forever!"
"Shh!!! Stop trying to disturb things...we'll be fine, for as long as we keep singing and laughing, nothing can harm us."
"Please! Please let me go!! I have no desire to share in your fate!"
"I'm afraid that's quite impossible. You see, if we let you go, we run the risk that you will succeed where others have failed, and that we will have to stop singing and laughing."
Hair and clothes began to smolder. embers, like butterflies from hell carried by the forewinds of the firestorm, began to touch down on the tables. sheets of music began to burn, but the players carried on, improvising their last twisted measures with lips on molten pipes and fingers flaying on red-hot strings. at a card table, four gentlemen carried on a game of cribbage as their fingers burned on the chits of fire that used to be playing cards.
I began to scream louder.
"You bastard motherfuckers! Let me GO!!!!"
"Shh...it's OK. Come, sit with us and listen to the song. You'll feel much better if you do."
The head of the lady who was addressing me suddenly burst into flames. All around me were burning skeletons, still dancing and singing and playing their songs, only now, in the funhouse mirror of the apocalypse, I could see that the singing was actually terrified shrieking and the dancing was a thousand feeble attempts to outrun the flames.
As the cacophony surrounded me and my flesh began to burn, the last thing I remember thinking was...
"...damn. I guess I really WAS the only one."
I did not wake up.
maybe you were going about it the wrong way?
maybe you missed through all the singing and laughter, the... ?
oh unless of coruse. you are Teh One. the One prophesied to blah blah blah.
fuck it forget it. burn it.
You realize if you piss into a prevailing wind it just hits you on the way back, right? The trick is to move into a position where you can piss into a downwind to put out the fire.
More on this once the pain in my head vanishes.
STANDING OVATION
this is the winning contest entry of the contest that is organized after a post so good it warrants having been a contest winner
to be known as the ECH merit award of HELL
i have to go put my fist thru something
ill be back in a second
I've said this before and I'll say it again.
Why is there a tendency to assume that just because people talk about pie and cookies and laugh and sing on an internet forum, that they actually do nothing in real life to try and make things better - or worse, depending on definition?
Ranting is great, but that alone doesn't change anything. Pies and cookies are yummy, but that also doesn't change anything. It's what we do, or fail to do, in our everyday lives that makes the difference.
He can't help it. He was The Catalyst after all.
Quote from: Horab Fibslagermaybe you were going about it the wrong way?
maybe you missed through all the singing and laughter, the... ?
oh unless of coruse. you are Teh One. the One prophesied to blah blah blah.
fuck it forget it. burn it.
I suggest you read it again, if you think that's what I was on about.
OTOH, if you were just executing a preprogrammed response to be a prick, then good job.
the line between the intranet and in real life is disappearing
it might not be a bad assumption to make
Someone has some pent up anxiety *cough*.
Quote from: neongenesis816Someone has some pent up anxiety *cough*.
prolly lots of people
Quote from: LHXQuote from: neongenesis816Someone has some pent up anxiety *cough*.
prolly lots of people
Oh I'm definitely one of them. It was kind of a cynical commentary on his dream. I know how he feels tho. Feelings of powerlessness are my forte.
I don't know if "anxiety" is the right word, but I DO know that I don't wanna be anywhere near me when the seals blow.
and Bella, honey, I wish I agreed with you. But all I have to do is look at the newspaper or go outside and walk around any city for awhile for it to be plainly obvious to me that even if some of us actually ARE doing anything concrete, it's so ineffectual as to be almost laughable.
8)
Quote from: East Coast HustleQuote from: Horab Fibslagermaybe you were going about it the wrong way?
maybe you missed through all the singing and laughter, the... ?
oh unless of coruse. you are Teh One. the One prophesied to blah blah blah.
fuck it forget it. burn it.
I suggest you read it again, if you think that's what I was on about.
OTOH, if you were just executing a preprogrammed response to be a prick, then good job.
Quote
"...damn. I guess I really WAS the only one."
kind of stood out as a prevailing theme in the article...
i agree totally what with bella said. as well as with what cain said.
again i say, what seems innefectual, sometimes has the greatest effect. the smallest thigns often have the most lasting effects.
a stone dropped in the pond...
Right, my brain is hurting less, I'll explain my point. You all know I'm as up for anyone for throwing numerous moneky wrenches into the machine, sometimes under the guise of a mechanic (yes, you know what I'm on about).
But for something to succeed, I think we need to be sneaky. I'm a big fan of sneaky, because it often works and often allows you to walk away after without the sophomoric heroics most wannabes die by. The system can be turned in on itself. Every ideology carries the seeds of its own destruction. The true genius relies in making the enemy, and it is an enemy, destroy themselves by allowing and occasionally aiding these elements to come to the fore.
Of course, that in itself is complicated. Many people arent willing to put in the effort, its true. Sometimes it requires bending, or outright breaking of the established rules, not only of society but what we have set for ourselves. Now, I have no problem with that, as my established rules are so few that they rarely ever come into play now. But the overall focus must be on aiding these elements, pushing the machine too hard one way so its natural constraints work against it. Then comes the fun (if you can call it that) of overheat, eventual breakdown and collapse. Of course, the whole mess starts again, but that usually takes a few years, dependent on how far the crash goes and the extent of dependencies on it.
We're nearing that breaking point, but not yet. I believe acts like 9/11 pushed it back, told people to trust their leaders and the prevaling ideology. It needs to be pushed harder, rammed down peoples throats until they become sick of it.
That said, this is the age of Kali Yuga. All our games are played with live ammunition. It has to be done correctly, or else its probably beyond grasp within our lifetimes again.
As you know ECH, my only disagreement is over tactics, not the eventual end.
For me, I need cookies and pies to be able to deal with the shitstorm. I need to have something worth fighting for. I think there is also a tendency on this forum to assume that things are a lot worse today than they ever were. That in some mythic yesterday things were a lot better. For a few people it was better at some point back there. It was more of a temporary illusion of it being better.
1 The illusion that at some point in the past wives did not need to work. that was only ever true for upper middle class whites, for the most part.
2 The illusion that government was ever on our side more than it is now. We are at a low, I will grant you that, but I can already see the rats of the Republicans fleeing the sinking ship. The last time government was on our side, in The States anyway, was probably sometime in the late 1700's. As soon as the founding fathers started dying off, we started getting fucked just like before.
3 The illusion the General Motors helped the communities where its factories were located. GM used extortion in order to not pay property taxes, saying it couldn't afford to stay in Flint otherwise, promised to stay and left anyway. Sorry, this one will piss me off as long as I live.
I had other stuff to say, but it wouldn't be productive. Some people need their illusions.
I have the opportunity to influence a young mind. As much as some of you don't want to hear about it, that is my focus for the next few years. If I can raise my son to be a free thinker, that will wreak more havoc than I could ever do alone. Plus, it really is my job.
I do a lot of little things. Some people can do more damage to the machine by doing a bazillion little things. Some people prefer to do fewer big things. Doesn't make anyone right or wrong. I don't think anyone here is so naive as to think the world is a perfect place. I think everyone here does something to make it better. It seems like we could put more energy into that some days.
Turd: It's not that we don't hear you, it's not that we don't care, it's not even that we don't agree. We are not you, you are not us, this is not the goo goo g'joob, but somehow, we are all together :wink: I have leftover piiiiieeeeeee :lol: You want cherry or pumpkin.
QuoteECH said - it's so ineffectual as to be almost laughable.
i said it a few days ago
the (r)evolution will be born out of frustration and impatience
those are the motivating factors at this point
Quote from: CainRight, my brain is hurting less, I'll explain my point. You all know I'm as up for anyone for throwing numerous moneky wrenches into the machine, sometimes under the guise of a mechanic (yes, you know what I'm on about).
But for something to succeed, I think we need to be sneaky. I'm a big fan of sneaky, because it often works and often allows you to walk away after without the sophomoric heroics most wannabes die by. The system can be turned in on itself. Every ideology carries the seeds of its own destruction. The true genius relies in making the enemy, and it is an enemy, destroy themselves by allowing and occasionally aiding these elements to come to the fore.
Of course, that in itself is complicated. Many people arent willing to put in the effort, its true. Sometimes it requires bending, or outright breaking of the established rules, not only of society but what we have set for ourselves. Now, I have no problem with that, as my established rules are so few that they rarely ever come into play now. But the overall focus must be on aiding these elements, pushing the machine too hard one way so its natural constraints work against it. Then comes the fun (if you can call it that) of overheat, eventual breakdown and collapse. Of course, the whole mess starts again, but that usually takes a few years, dependent on how far the crash goes and the extent of dependencies on it.
We're nearing that breaking point, but not yet. I believe acts like 9/11 pushed it back, told people to trust their leaders and the prevaling ideology. It needs to be pushed harder, rammed down peoples throats until they become sick of it.
That said, this is the age of Kali Yuga. All our games are played with live ammunition. It has to be done correctly, or else its probably beyond grasp within our lifetimes again.
As you know ECH, my only disagreement is over tactics, not the eventual end.
the seeds of where you and me disagreement are here
ultimately - i disagree with the sneaky part
my understanding is that sneaky can be (possibly must be) sacrificed
and a thorough understanding of the aftermath must be understood
Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of AlchemyFor me, I need cookies and pies to be able to deal with the shitstorm. I need to have something worth fighting for.
Quote from: Eldora, Oracle of AlchemyI have the opportunity to influence a young mind. As much as some of you don't want to hear about it, that is my focus for the next few years. If I can raise my son to be a free thinker, that will wreak more havoc than I could ever do alone. Plus, it really is my job.
i hear that
respect due
the parenting thing changes the scope a lot
There's a saying in my house: 'you can't rape the willing'
Simply put, if my anjala wants to have sex there's little way my advances are unwarranted.
Oh wait...
Right. I actually use this statement as a way of turning the world on its head; You can't rape the willing, it's true, but by the same turn, you can't make the unwilling listen because it is a form of invasion, albeit a minor one. If someone isn't listening and isn't going to listen there's little point in trying to get them to listen. I spent a lot of time and wasted emotions in my youth trying to convince people around to my point of view, be it that I was scary, shouldn't be trifled with, or that they were completely wasting their existence and needed to see the light I was shoving in their face.
There's no way you're going to save the world as long as you're using your mouth, or your hands, or anything active, you've got to be passive. My plan is out-breeding. If I have enough children and give them the right kind of mental arsenal and down through the generations, in about two-hundred years the southern hemmisphere will be won.
But I digress. You can't speak the one language all the time and have everybody hear, the foreboding future is something different to everyone, and there's no guarantee that there is a single, universal thing to kick everyone into listening mode.
Frankly ECH you remind me of an evangelical church, except hell is no longer at the centre of the earth, you've moved it up a level and through the fourth dimension into the future. Yes we're headed for a load of shit, but the way you're screaming isn't going to help.
I had a dream too. I was high in the mountains in an ancient building, there was a man coming after me with a sword, rooted to the spot I couldn't move as he advanced on me, and as the blade came down, I lashed out with one steel-toed boot, as he doubled-over, I punched him in the face and then i threw him out the window by his belt, and he splattered on the flagstones below.
So my question to you is, why the hell are you such a fucking pessimist that you don't fight your own death in your dreams?
We aint gonna outbreed the cabbages, EVER. Just saying.
Quote from: CainWe aint gonna outbreed the cabbages, EVER. Just saying.
true
Quote from: The seerIf someone isn't listening and isn't going to listen there's little point in trying to get them to listen. I spent a lot of time and wasted emotions in my youth trying to convince people around to my point of view, be it that I was scary, shouldn't be trifled with, or that they were completely wasting their existence and needed to see the light I was shoving in their face.
"Here's jewels to live by
Identify before you enter and can't leave
we agree
Fuck that
waste no time on those who can't breatheA bomb only has one time to explode
When I blow I'm takin everything,
turn the city streets to dusty roads"
- masta killa - one blood
you are not your brothers keeper
Quote from: CainWe aint gonna outbreed the cabbages, EVER. Just saying.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh god I'm going to be sleeping on the sofa tonight...You haven't seen me fuck.
Actually! more to the point it isn't a form of darwinism. Every child I have marries a cabbage and has three more children, the cabbage by the result of being with a normal person themselves becomes normal (it happens, people in long-term relationships even out in terms of behaviour, it saved anjala from the funny farm). It's just a way of spreading the memes. if the prevailing social groups are then peppered with people who share a similar, more pre-active (yes, 'pre') philosophy, the sheeple fall in line. But personally, I hope none of MY kids are that popular, but my several thousand great-great-great-great-grandchildren? meh, who knows?
call me chicken little
but
i just cant see this shit going on for too much longer
the internet changed the whole game up
plus
you got people like us collaborating and running our ideas by each other
aside from all the frustration and shit
its only a matter of time
(and not a long time)
cant you smell it in the air?
that aint cologne
troof.
and fuck that tired old line about not being able to contend with the state on the state's terms. I say we redefine the terms and then come out swinging.
Quote from: LHXcall me chicken little
but
i just cant see this shit going on for too much longer
the gloryhole changed the whole game up
plus
you got people like us collaborating and running our ideas by each other
aside from all the frustration and shit
its only a matter of time
(and not a long time)
cant you smell it in the air?
that aint cologne
I got one for you yanks... Try posting this everywhere
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guardians for their future security.
And when anyone tries to stop you for being seditious, remind them it's from the declaration of independence. :lol:
WHOOPS!
QuoteThat whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guardians for their future security.
Unless they get shot. Assassinated. Bombed. Poisoned. Have "fatal muggings." Drano poured down the throat. Run over by tanks. Tac-nuked.
Quote from: East Coast Hustletroof.
and fuck that tired old line about not being able to contend with the state on the state's terms. I say we redefine the terms and then come out swinging.
see - at this point
even if somebody had some really good idea
so that the raping of the general populous didnt hurt
quite so muchit would still be too late
the terms will be redefined
they
are being redefined
Quote from: Cain
Unless they get shot. Assassinated. Bombed. Poisoned. Have "fatal muggings." Drano poured down the throat. Run over by tanks. Tac-nuked.
these things do not happen where i live
in real life
OR
the intranet
yeah, you don't even have the right to debate about whether or not the first principles of your country are still being adhered to.
Over here they're scrapping the sedition laws, but, it can only be a matter of time.
Why do I feel like darth vader is out there, lurking, waiting for the primaries again? :lol:
Quote from: LHXQuote from: Cain
Unless they get shot. Assassinated. Bombed. Poisoned. Have "fatal muggings." Drano poured down the throat. Run over by tanks. Tac-nuked.
these things do not happen where i live
in real life
OR
the intranet
They will.
They can take any steps they like to quell an uprising and be free not to tell you the method or source. The Pentagon has a lovely range of "non-lethal" weapons that will literally make you spill your guts, go blind, poison you slowly, etc that they gave out to the NATO allies lately. Which means there are even nastier surprises.
cain
we are dealing with something that cant be killed here
there is a difference between trying to get something done
and
getting the feeling that you are an agent for something else
the good guys always win in the end
the way viruses evolve to the point where antibiotics are inefficient
is the same way we work
and people who have jobs that pay them good money dont come to where i live anyway
The good guys hardly ever win, I'm afraid. Its the bastards who have what it takes to wade through a lake of blood to seize the crown and still not be disturbed enough to unleash it on others if the need arises later on. Ideas may not be killed, but people sure as hell can be. And are being, daily, upon the mightiest altar of them all, the One of My Absolute Rightness and Your Total Wrongness. There is enough room there for every cult and denomination. The indominatable human spirit isnt much help when its shackled and chained in a CIA gulag in Eastern Europe. Or a shallow grave in the woods.
whistle while you work
the point about the declaration was that, there will one day be a revolution, but it may take the slaughter of innocent civilians on national TV for it to happen.
Now I think I'll go around taping that bit of the Declaration to stuff in my city.
as for the good guys always winning, its just the winners (whether "good" or "bad") declaring themselves "the good guys." Thats how the damn good guys are always winning. *shakes fist*
It wont happen. The revolution will not be televised, because the TVs are still working. Wasnt 25,000 civilians in Iraq enough to make you get up? Then nothing else will either? Civilians are being slaughtered at all places at all times, and it never makes a real bit of difference, not in the end. No matter what sort of revolution you may dream of, it will always be headed by someone carrying another version of the same ideology of the current rulers. Master ideology and slave ideology, remember your Nietzsche? The slaves cant hold power unless they take up master morality, in which case they turn into the oppressors they hated so much.
Actually I was thinking of Tiennerman square in front of the whitehouse over people begging for food. The french aristocracy imprisoning and executing all and sundry they didn't like wasn't enough for the public back then, but there was indeed a turning point. Read what was written on the declaration. They were saying that people will put up with a lot of shit just for the sake of simplicity, but you can only push them so far.
'too far' however will take a long time to reach, 25,000 iraqi civilians are 25,000 nameless faceless masses, when word spreads around the country (televised or not) that the army followed el presidente's orders to shoot at people demanding their rights allegedly enshrined in US law there WILL be more than a simple uprising.
armed revolutions always fail
either through simple defeat
or assimilation
intellectual revolutions often succeed
there was a time when these questions were not even considered
and now they form the basis for a great debate
that is change on a scale no amount of guns can achieve
the future will be won
not by arms
but by ideas
passed from one person to the next
by voice
by written word
or even by song
viva the revolution!
it's not what you think it is
the internet does not make it possible
it only makes it easier
heh heh
the word filter is forcing us to change our language
and create our own jargon
if this keeps up
no one outside of our community
will know what the hell we are talking about
Revolution means to go around in circles. They do succeed at that. Just sayin'.
the victory is pre-determined
(i got that from the art of war)
we are a bunch of scum bags
we have no economic influence
no political influence
and yet
we pose the biggest threat there is
all we are is proponents for ideas
ideas change actions
we spread the ideas
and its curtains
the trump card we hold now is that we dont have to 'meet in private'
our communication is so convoluted by the cesspool of information which is the intranet
that we are perfectly disguised
all we have to do is broadcast the proper madness in the air
and watch it spread
Quote from: fluffy
armed revolutions always fail
either through simple defeat
or assimilation
intellectual revolutions often succeed
Oh, I don't know . . . The French Revolution went pretty well. The American Revolution seemed to have worked. Cuba is still alive and kicking.
It does work sometimes.
Quote from: Baron von HooplaQuote from: fluffy
armed revolutions always fail
either through simple defeat
or assimilation
intellectual revolutions often succeed
Oh, I don't know . . . The French Revolution went pretty well. The American Revolution seemed to have worked. Cuba is still alive and kicking.
It does work sometimes.
assimilation
except cuba
Quote from: LHXQuote from: Baron von HooplaQuote from: fluffy
armed revolutions always fail
either through simple defeat
or assimilation
intellectual revolutions often succeed
Oh, I don't know . . . The French Revolution went pretty well. The American Revolution seemed to have worked. Cuba is still alive and kicking.
It does work sometimes.
assimilation
especially cuba
fixed
Quote from: fluffyQuote from: LHXQuote from: Baron von HooplaQuote from: fluffy
armed revolutions always fail
either through simple defeat
or assimilation
intellectual revolutions often succeed
Oh, I don't know . . . The French Revolution went pretty well. The American Revolution seemed to have worked. Cuba is still alive and kicking.
It does work sometimes.
assimilation
especially cuba
fixed
interesting
i see it
"here's to the new boss
same as the old boss"
these games we play
1) ECH is correct.
2) Sometimes the new boss knows that the old boss was right. And, as everyone knows "Might makes right", so they are always right.
Enr!co knows, he has been both the old boss and the new boss at different points in illustrious political career.